Linux Helping Oracle 148
Mr. Fahrenheit writes "CNN has a story about how Oracle's effort to port their database to Linux may be helping them to out pace IBM." From the article: "In its biennial survey of the world's largest databases, WinterCorp, a database research and consulting company, reported that Oracle dominated its list of 175 large databases. For the first time, databases running on Linux appeared on WinterCorp's list -- and all of them came from Oracle."
Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:5, Insightful)
I just wish the people at ATI and NVIDIA would start to understand that giving technical details to open source developers doesn't always have to hurt. Technology is not a zero sum game; it's like science in which there are benefits to working together.
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2, Insightful)
I see you have chosen your nick "ScrewMaster" for a reason..
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:5, Interesting)
The term "enlightened self-interest" has nothing to do with screwing the other guy
Furthermore, when people would come to me with "opportunities" that seemed to good to be true (i.e., being "kind" for no apparent reason) I was naturally very suspicious. I would always ask, gee that sounds great
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Somebody called Abacha mails me about that every day. I must have received a few hundred of his mails by now. Maybe I should listen to the guy. Apparently his father was the president of Nigeria.
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:1)
With someone looking out for their own enlightened selfinterest you know the rules. You can talk. You can negotiate win/win situations. If something goes bad and you get screwed you can still talk and negotiate to figure out why and what can be done about it.
There is no talking to someone being "kind" for "your own good." These people are l
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:1)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:1)
In my view, the reason why ATI and NVIDIA do not release specs is not because of "lack of enlightenment", it probably has more to do with the fact that they are infringing on each other's patents. I'm not in the graphics hardware field, but it is my understanding that it is impossible to build a product without infringing multiple, multiple patents. When you release specs, your infringements are aired for the world to see.
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:1)
Re:Enlightened Self-Interest (Score:2)
MS Access (Score:5, Funny)
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
RMS Access (Score:3, Funny)
*yawn* sorry, tried my best, still too sleepy..
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
Re:MS Access (Score:3, Insightful)
You wanna read MS Access files in linux? Done: http://mdbtools.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
You wanna port that data to an F/OSS db? Done: http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/gagn e_access.html [oracle.com]
You want an MS Access equivolent for linux? Done: http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/04/20/18 23249.shtml?tid=150&tid=72&tid=82 [newsforge.com]
Yeah, it was a joke, I know, but beleive it or not, there are those for whom MS Access is a working requirement who might be interested in these
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
Since when is Oracle a Free/Open Source database?
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
Well, if you are talking in terms of big database companies being very good at opening and freeing our bank accounts of that pesky burden of calculating interest on our balances...then, yes, they are free and open.
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/programming.html [digitalelite.com]
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
From TFA you linked to:
"Today, Rekall is a dual-licensed GUI database front-end with aspirations of becoming Linux's answer to Microsoft Access."
" Note that Rekall does not include an RDMS -- it's only a front-end."
Done? I think not.
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
MS Access is 'only' a frontend to JET (aka MDB). It's just a very tightly coupled frontend.
Rekall like most Unix software is designed to be loosely coupled with other components. Choose your own backend. If you don't like Rekall, might I suggest Knoda (which I believe can do a one-file-forms-n-all app), Glom (postgresql only, but tightly coupled) or OpenOffice.org Base.
Of course none of them are as ubquitous as MS Access
Re:MS Access (Score:2)
Please correct my logic here, but wasn't Access originally a rewrite of dBase IV? The same one developed by Tom Rettig, of "Lassie" fame? Is that why any Access database I've ever had to depend on barks at passing cars when it reaches 25MB?
Not entirely fair, of course -- only refers to pre-W2K MDE's. It's still only a short step from there to a decent database though, and many folks start with Access as an easy kick-start. More than that though, and the
Re:MS Access (Score:3, Interesting)
Alex
Sure (Score:2)
Bollocks (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Bollocks (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bollocks (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Bollocks (Score:2)
Wrong. DB2 is built from a single code base on every platform it runs on [ibm.com]. Currently that includes Linux, AIX, Solaris, HPUX, and Windows.
Re:Bollocks (Score:1)
DB2 also runs on the mainframe -- you know, OS's like OS/390 and z/OS. That DB2 -- which is the one most people mean when referring to DB2 unless they say DB2 UDB -- is from a completely different code base, and works very, very differently. Little things like "the number of columns that can constitute a unique index" and "how partitioning works" differ wildly between the two DB2 "Universal Database" implementations. So if you want to move databases off z/OS onto a z/Linux partition or
ugh, all three wrong (Score:2)
- unix/linux/windows
- mainframe
- as/400
while oracle only has one for:
- unix/linux/windows
is a nonsensical comparison: Oracle doens't have any product on the as/400, and their product for the os/390 (mainframe) is practically non-existent. A more reasonable statement is:
"db2 and oracle each have just one codebase for the common distributed platforms"
db2 has a slight
Re:ugh, all three wrong (Score:2)
OS/400 is a different beast and very different from z/OS (OS/390) and UNIX/LINUX world and currently this market is very well covered by IBM and most AS/400 customers are fanatical IBM customers. Not a market that Oracle put much interest in, nor is there much money to be had in this market anymore.
Oracle's code consists of 2 parts, one general part which is identical on all supported platforms and o
Re:ugh, all three wrong (Score:2)
> when you least expect it.
Sure, if you're using partitioning then there will be some major differences. Of course, most os/390 db2 databases in my experience don't. The other major difference is that new features are released much earlier on LUW than on OS/390 - so if you coded for MDC, MQT, etc on DB2 you may have to wait to get it on 0S/390. And of course, given the nature of how upgrad
Re:Bollocks (Score:1)
The Oracle Corporation released the first Linux port of their database to in August 1999, and, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_database#Versi on_numbering_conventionsWikipedia [wikipedia.org], Oracle was the first commercial RDMBS with a Linux port. So DB2 was the latecomer.
Re:Bollocks (Score:2)
There were internal version of the database running natively under Linux long before it was released.
Re:Bollocks (Score:2)
Oracle has run on Linux for ages (Score:2)
Re:Oracle has run on Linux for ages (Score:2)
bollocks (Score:2)
Re:Bollocks (Score:2)
MS SQL Server is the only large scale database I know of that doesn't have a linux version. But that's hardly surprising since they don't seem to have any unix versions at all. (Hmmm... intriguing)
etc.
There are more than 2 unix databases commericially available.
And even more important... (Score:2)
...is the fact that the only verison of DB2 that is fully instrumented is on the mainframe - it is in the end impossible to fully quantify performance problems under the Windows/UNIX/AS400 platforms. Oracle is fully instrumented everywhere.
Of course, I read this in some Oak Table literature, so I wonder if I should trust it fully.
a bit strange (Score:2)
Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
I think that OTN is probably one of the better resources out there for all things Oracle (Linux or not). If you've not gone there, I highly suggest it. You'll find answers to prety much anything you'll run up against.
That aside, if your company wants to run any major commercial software on top of that database (HR, CRM, Financials, etc.) it's most likely going to have to run on top
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2, Informative)
first of all, any worthwhile company running oracle WILL have a support contract. period. second, the installer (which i agree blows chunks) is not broken to the point where you REQUIRE a support contract. i speak from experience here, because i have had no problem installing oracle 9i on linux (without calling oracle support). third, oracle is a resource hog becau
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2, Interesting)
You're implying that consuming many resources is required to ensure data integrity. It's not. Correct programming is required to ensure data integrity. "Hogging resources" (i.e. allocating lots of memory) is useful for acheiving better performance on a large database.
You also imply that a million records is a large database. It's not, unless of cour
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
I meant, does MySQL actually corrupt data so that MySQL itself cannot understand it? I use MySQL when I must, and I'd like to know if there are situations in which MySQL actually corrupts data.
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:3, Informative)
First, do you want the statistics because PostgreSQL is choosing a bad plan without them, or do you use the statistics directly?
I'm having a little trouble understanding exactly what you want. It sounds like maybe you want something other than an elapsed time to trigger autovacuum on that one temp table so that the statistics are updated. But really, if there is any time lapse at all it seems like your application could not rely on the numbers without doing an explicit "ANALYZE"
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
And if he is using temp tables, it's still not obvious to me why they need to be vacuumed or analyzed.
Vacuum doesn't make too much sense for reporting, since there isn't any reason to have deletes/updates (at least no reason obvious to me). And analyze basically has
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:1)
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:1)
1. Reference the remote table directly.
2. Set up replication to continuously replicate the tables at the remote database to the local database.
3. Use import/export (or impdp/expdp) to create a dump file which is portable cross-os and cross-release.
4 Issue "create table X as select * from X@otherdb;"
Oracle is a big, complicated piece of software.
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
Re:Oracle Installer Sucks (Score:2)
However, I am having difficulty understanding your problems with Oracle 9i on Linux. I have installed 8, 9 and 10 on different flavours of linux and never once seen that level of problems. What distro were you using? Redhat, Suse, and Debian/Ubuntu on x86 are all simple installs using standard Oracle. I can't speak for the others but to be honest if you're installin
Re:So both installer suck? (Score:2)
The problem could have easily been diagnosed if you had used a real OS and not a toy OS like Windows. I take it that you checked which process were hogging CPU and since it was the installer, I'm 100% sure that your problem was with the version of JRE installed on your machine. It would have been nice to have an RDA (Remote Diagnostic Agent) output from your machine since t
Re:So both installer suck? (Score:2)
The leazt you could have done, was to follow the installation prerequisites in the installation guide. When you don't, you do get problems.
Toy-OS - Windows... Well, why don't you tell me how to trace a process under Windows with a tool like strace or truss or glance? Which tool do I use to list all open files under Windows? How can I trace a certain thread under Windows?
The problem is that Windows h
Good news but not well interpreted (Score:2, Insightful)
Or... (Score:3, Interesting)
Our experience with Postgresql (Score:4, Insightful)
We put about 210 million records in Postgresql database for one of our apps and so far Postgresql has shown itself really well. Queries are quick, database is stable, backup times are reasonable... personally, Postgresql has exceeded my expectations.
It's good that Oracle runs on Linux, as Postgresql has done for many years, but at what point do you really need to spend all that money on Oracle? I think Postgresql will be more than sufficient for 95+% of all apps out there.
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:4, Informative)
I agree, but I would like to point out that Oracle doesn't usually cost $50K/CPU for any system that would be sufficient for PostgreSQL. It is more fair to compare Oracle Standard Edition or Oracle SE One to PostgreSQL, which are priced significantly lower ($15K and $5K respectively, plus support). Even EE is "only" $40K/CPU, plus support.
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:2)
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:2)
But we all know that clock speed is not an accurate measure of processor speed. What they should really do is tie the pricing to benchmark results on Tom's Hardware.
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:2)
They used to charge Mhz * CPU's * platform-rate, but people thought that pricing was too complicated (a
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:2)
Actually, if you need the feature, then it may be cheaper to pay someone to implement the feature in Postgres. Unless there's some patent or other reason why the feature can't be implemented in Postgres, It's probably better to have it implemented in Postgres. It may not be cheaper for 1 company, but probably for all the companies that need the feature, especi
Re:Our experience with Postgresql (Score:2)
Sure, Postgre has support, but I'm not entirely sure that when I email the outsourced support company, or ring their phone number, that someone will pick up. It's this uncertainty that makes the higher management simply decide to go with Oracle/DB2/etc.
Forgive my ignorance, but I do not know if Postresql su
Out of curiosity ... (Score:1)
Re:Out of curiosity ... (Score:2)
2. Oracle is very customizable
3. Oracle is very powerful (in terms of expressiveness of its custom SQLish statements)
4. Oracle performance is incredible when properly tuned
That said, Oracle is not a newbie database. It won't configure itself for you like MS SQL does. It expects to be operated by a professional who does nothing other than work with Oracle all day.
In particular, "optimizer that needs many hints" is a sign of the power of Oracle. They assume
Re:Out of curiosity ... (Score:2)
It's also a weakness. The plans should not be static because your data is not static. That means that when the data set changes, you need to re-optimize.
Re:Out of curiosity ... (Score:2)
1) Automatically generate statistics as you use tables
2) If those statistics are good enough then using the statistics estimate costs for various strategies
3) If those statistics are not good enough then use a rule based system
It used to be that hints were used for rule based. However there are used for times where statistics are not likely to reflect the que
Most "IT" people... (Score:1, Informative)
The kind of "IT people" of whom you are speaking, are far too untrained and unqualified to be making a valid judgement call on the merits of Oracle. Oracle is an incredibly sophisticated database system, intended to be installed and operated only by those persons with enough training and understanding of its architecture. It is intended for really big, really complex applications and not for the mundane. In its intended applications, Oracle is powerful, f
training biases (Score:1)
That kind of complexity is useful for a while, but then the advances of Technology tend to bury the product. Some people suspect Oracle of trying to pervert sleepy cat and others by burying them, but the announcements make me think they've realized the same thing as IBM -- the money in no longer in the software, bu
Re:Out of curiosity ... (Score:1)
linux helping oracle? Other way around? (Score:2)
Re:linux helping oracle? Other way around? (Score:2)
By running on Linux, Oracle lowers the ba
Not too surprising (Score:2)
Linux cluster file system (Score:2)
Surprise, surprise (Score:2)
OracLinux (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:OracLinux (Score:2)
Re:OracLinux (Score:1)
Collapsing several system's environments like that into a single VMware server can save lots and lots of money paid for
Systems
Data Center Space
Data Center Operating Costs
Besides, I remember having seen someth
As someone who makes these decisions ... (Score:5, Informative)
I think Oracle is winning because Oracle is honest to god better than their competition. I was (am?) a DBA for 10 years on Sybase (AIX), SQL Server 6x 7x 2kx, Informix 8x 9x, and Oracle 8x 9x 10x at various times, and though I've moved on to a database architecture role with the company I'm with, I'm still making the call on systems purchases. We use mostly SQL Server 2005, for cost, in the smaller 4-6TB systems and they run great, but I wouldn't even consider DB2 for any production role anymore with Oracle out there making it happen in so many better ways.
I'm not a fanboy of Ellison, I'm just realistic about who's driving the market today.
--chitlenz
PS - Oh yeah, as mentioned we're running Sun 40z's with Windows Server 2003 and SQL Server 2005 on Netapp arrays AND it is VERY MUCH worth noting that the lower end Sun/Opteron line not only runs windows, but runs windows VERY well (driver support for their servers is very very good, which was like
--chitlenz
PPS - for anyone who is curious about this topic in any real way, use an isntall guide other than Oracle's, since it's usually wrong for awhile
instead.
If Slashdot had editors... (Score:2)
Reading Comprehension? (Score:1)
Oracle on Linux? (Score:2)
Doesn't Linux have enough problems getting a foot in the door?
Partially kidding, but Oracle? Who in the Linux community wants to see Oracle running on Linux?
Oracle use to be quite grand but never evolved past the 'usability' model, mainly because they made so much money off of selling training. Virtually killing it for serious developers when interface and application independance became the norm for databases in the early 1990s.
Although they did learn to some degree and focused on the datab
Re:Oracle on Linux? (Score:2)
Still considering some of the databases listed were MS SQL I suppose anything is possible.
Re:Oracle on Linux? (Score:2)
SQL Server 2005, by my estimation, is also good, but very new.
DB2 UDB has some positive traits, particularly the parallel edition for large data warehouses, but
Re:Oracle on Linux? (Score:2)
However these are disappearing because of Oracles relunctance over the years to adapt.
Oracle was more than a Database in the early years, Oracle, like dBase and other low end tools all had a 'user interface' model that locked all applicaitons using the products to be produced 'inside' the Oracle technologies.
Sure this exists less today, but Oracle's business model hasn't really 'got' the UI migration move of the industry.
Even old
Re:Legally reverse-engineer Oracle now? (Score:2)
Postgres is heading in that way by its support of plsql and other capaibilities.
Of course, it does not have the speed of Oracle. But if you want speed for simple queries, try MySql (or even slqlite). Of course, you will give up a great deal of capabilities.
And finally, you have DB2, which competes well against Oracle on speed (lite on capabilities).
Re:Legally reverse-engineer Oracle now? (Score:2)
Eh... honestly in all my work with databases, I've wished for a lot of things but never "I wish this database were faster". I've always wished it had more and better referential integrity options, more inheritance features, better filesystem interfaces with more frequent writes, but the problem has never been "this database isn't doing queries fast enough". There have always been some queries that were slow, but they have been from dbs that are poorly designed -- a poorly designed query into a poorly design
Re:Legally reverse-engineer Oracle now? (Score:2)
Once again class... you can link against LGPL libraries and are only required to make available the modified source of the LGPL library, not the apps/libraries of yours that are using it.
Now under the GPL (notice the missing first L) that is a different story and depending on the kind of linking involved then yes, if the external libs were GPL and they linked against the
Re:Larry Ellison (Score:1, Offtopic)
As in had a plan, built a company, worked hard, saw it to fruition and made a lot of money.
Yes, an American icon.
The same America that foreigners have flocked to by the millions for 150 years, because their native countries are too fscked up.
Re:Larry Ellison (Score:2)
It is always Americans without any form of international experience who come with these allegations, and i begin to understand why and the reason why is not very pretty.
Re:Larry Ellison (Score:2)
If it's so fucked up, and you're not a citizen, you've been here for 10 years because?????
Re:Larry Ellison (Score:2)
The company I work for brought me here because of my abilities and skills. Even though I have a green card, I will not be living here for that much longer. And if it is of any comfort to you, I can make 3 times what I make here in the US back in my home country, but I value the challenges of this job more than money since I have more than enough for a comfortable life. Add to that that the climate here in Florida is way better than back home. Looking at a home down in Keys at the moment so