Where Computers Go To Die 303
broohaha writes "Salon.com has a featured article on where all our unwanted techno trash gets sent, and what is not being done enough to account for all the so-called 'recycling' we're doing. From the article: 'More than 50 percent of our recycled computers are shipped overseas, where their toxic components are polluting poor communities. Meanwhile, U.S. laws are a mess, and industry and Congress are resisting efforts to stem the effluent of the affluent.' Some sites to visit dedicated to attacking the problem are Computer Take Back Campaign and Ban Action Network."
First Post? (Score:5, Informative)
another place that takes them in (Score:5, Informative)
Disabled guy takes old equipment, cleans and refurbishs it, repairs it if needed, loads Linux and gives it away to the needy.
Some of it is resold to cover basic costs but it's pretty much a non-profit.
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:2, Funny)
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:3, Informative)
Or here's some computer recyling in Portland Free Geek [freegeek.org]
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:4, Interesting)
I found Free Geek a while back and liked the ideal a lot but as I'm in the UK it sort of died a death. I'm partially involved in PC recycling as an amateur PC builder and Linux advocate so it would be something I'd be interested in doing in my part of the UK. What I'd like to see is if any other like-minded UK Geeks would be interested in a similar 'franchise'.
They have a recycling system that gives back to the community. The basic idea is that geeky types learn how to strip and make good an old PC load Debian on and then it goes to the poor. After a certain number of builds they get to keep one for themselves. Sounds a bit 'hippy' but then internet grew on hippy-ish ideals and I for one commend the organisers on their selflessness.
Anyway please take a look at the Free Geek site and see what a GOOD THING it is.
http://freegeek.org/ [freegeek.org]Cheers.
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:3, Interesting)
My inlaws bought a new pc a while ago because the old one was "broken". What they meant was that the machine was completely bogged down with spyware and crap that Windows had slowed to a crawl. They bought a new machine without asking me, or I could have told them that all they needed was a new Windows install...
I put a fresh install on it and gave it to my neighbour who needed a basic browsing / MS Office machine. (No,
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:2)
I know in the past, there were folks that would take older machines, and refurb them, and donate them to schools. Apparently tho...many if not most public schools today no longer accept older machines...so,there goes one venue for recycling.
When I was clearing out the top floor of my home in NOLA after the flood...I found I had hardware I really had no room for in storage...and was too old really for me to bother w
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:4, Funny)
Then where do you live?
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:5, Insightful)
I was investigating a scheme to get computers to the residents of a village in Kenya and my immediate reaction was to use recycled PCs, then I realised that using something like a low end mini-itx would work far better for them because it would be easier to get out there, could run for a long time on batteries (crucial for intermittent power problems) and is relatively robust (potentially solid state).
Horses for courses I guess, but I still have an extremely strong urge to get as much out of old hardware as I can.
Old PCs draw less power (Score:3, Informative)
Besides, once you hit 200-300 mhz with a tnt/rage128 class graphics card you can do any 2D task you care to name. That was a major concern for PC venders back in the day: how are we gonna get people to upgrade when this year's models are onl
Re:another place that takes them in (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? Most introductory computer users are going to type S-L-O-W-L-Y into their computer as they type up their homework or email. They'll spend large amounts of time staring at the screen trying to decipher what they're looking at. Does it really make any differenc
Silicon Heaven (Score:4, Funny)
~egilhh
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:2)
I think you are referring to the hit movie, All Intels Go To Silicon Heaven?
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:2, Funny)
Ooh yeah ! I saw this porn mov... oh you mean silicon as in silicon chips ?
Nevermind.
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:5, Informative)
as the old saying goes: remember kids, silicon is for chips, silicone is for tits.
Re:Silicon Heaven (Score:2)
You're thinking silicone. C'mon, I'd expect better than that.
Silicon Heaven does exist. (Paging Red Dwarf Fans) (Score:2)
Any Red Dwarf fan knows Silicon Heaven [wikipedia.org] does exist.
"The concept is used to keep robots, many of which are stronger and more intelligent than their masters, from rebelling; a belief chip is installed in robots to ensure that they will believe that they will go to Silicon Heaven after a life of servitude to humanity."
Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:5, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4577198.stm [bbc.co.uk]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/46924
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:2, Insightful)
Exploding population? (Score:2)
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:2)
There are different kinds of trash we dump on the third world:
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:2)
Damn...
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:3, Interesting)
So when one of those out and out sabotage attempts actually ends up spreading asbestos in your hometown, you will have no problems with your neighbors conducting out and out sabotage of the earning potential of Greenpeace contributors (such as yourself), I hope. Fair is fair afte
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:2)
I totally agree!
We should NEVER let recycling compete with with new manufacturing for the same market space.
Re:Electronics/Computers are not the only items (Score:2)
Use this to our advantage (Score:2)
There's people and places willing to take away the refuse and deal with it in a manner that we don't have to see or hear about. The people ripping the useful bits out of this gear get to make some cash, and the rest of us don't have to fill our basements with our employer's old servers.
What's the problem?
There's too much beauty upon this earth for lonely men to bear. -- Richard Le Gallienne
So let's cut it down and pave it over.
Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:5, Interesting)
Companies don't care about the environment, until governments force them to care.
Re:Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:5, Informative)
List of main culprits is here [pb-free.info] (Look for "six substances" link).
List is:
Lead - Pb
Mercury - Hg
Cadmium - Cd
Hexavalent Chromium Cr (VI)
Polybrominated biphenyls - PBB
Polybrominated diphenyl ethers - PBDE
Re:Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:2)
We really need to thank the European orgs that have propelled RoHS. The euro market is large enough that electronics manufacturers will/are re-tooling to comply.
Glad to be a European (Score:2)
OK, OK. I freely admit that referring to arivanov's post doesn't generate a lot of credibility.
Re:Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:2)
Re:Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:2)
Re:Illegal in Europe, legal in USA and Asia (Score:2)
Guess what the 60/40 stand for.
The amounts of lead on a circuit board are NOT at all miniscule
Strange Acronym (Score:2)
Isn't that kind of like:
STOP = Stop Teachers Against Pollution?
Re:Strange Acronym (Score:2)
Re:Strange Acronym (Score:2)
Isn't that kind of like:
STOP = Stop Teachers Against Pollution?
You're posting on Slashdot and that's the best example you can think of??.... Richard Stallman (truly an American icon) must be spinning in his grave.
Re:Strange Acronym (Score:2, Funny)
i.e., I don't think he's spinning in his grave; he's not dead.
Re:Strange Acronym (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Strange Acronym (Score:2)
Recycling tax (Score:4, Informative)
When buying something, a customer has to pay a small amount of money (for instance: 0,5 for a mobile phone), but in return, he can return his old devices to the vendor. The vendor then sends it to the manufacturer who recycles it.
who then... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's pretty much the point of the article, and you missed it.
Re:who then... (Score:3, Informative)
B&M Retailers would go nuts. (Score:2)
Recycling - by law (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Recycling - by law (Score:2)
The classic trick is to set up a company in your target country, which "reuses" old computers. Then ship all your stuff over there, and write it off as 100% recycled (for which you probably get tax benefits). The receiving company wi
Re:Recycling - by law (Score:2)
Does this cover vendors of complete systems only (eg Dell) or also component vendors (ie can I recycle bits of computers I built myself)?
Re:The UK, Brussels' lapdog (Score:3, Insightful)
The "re-vote" in ireland was not an election, but a referendum, much like the frequent referendums in the US that get instrumentalised, repeated or overturned by politicians on a regular basis
The european parliament is an elected body (by the people, seats according to population, much like the US congress), while the european comission consists of the (elected) governments of the member states (imagine a senate where senators are the state governors). Which part of
Re:The UK, Brussels' lapdog (Score:2)
Not quite right. There are three bodies, the parliament, the council and the commission.
The parliament is directly elected; however it has very little power. It takes monumental effort to alter or block
Re:The UK, Brussels' lapdog (Score:2)
Now whether governments (or indeed voters) choose senisble people to represent their interests is a totally different question.
Re:The UK, Brussels' lapdog (Score:2)
Re:The UK, Brussels' lapdog (Score:2)
PS, I am insulted by your implication that I read the Daily Mail.
heellloooooooo grammar (Score:2)
Looks like they've been recycling the grammar manuals over at Salon a little too much...
Catch 22 (Score:3, Insightful)
Why can't anything be simple? Are people really that greedy? I guess what'll happen is some certification will spring up "100% true recycling" or something. These things tend to work out in the end.
What about all the stuff that doesnt get recycled? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about all the stuff that doesnt get recycl (Score:3, Interesting)
They tagged some recycling trucks and followed them to their final destination:
The city dump.
If the story ended there it would have been sensationalistic enough, but the next day they showed what goes on at the city dump.
Normal trash, and trash from recycled bins got fed into these giant conveyor belts where workers sorted through the trash and pulled out all the re
Re:What about all the stuff that doesnt get recycl (Score:5, Insightful)
1 - too many people believe that P-III 500 they paid $1500.00 for in 1998 is still worth $1000.00 and will not sell it for less so it will sit in a closet for 3 more years and then silently get thrown in the trash.
2 - Way too many people believe that you have to have a Pentium4 or better and 2GHZ or faster to do anything. I can edit a full length feature film, do Advanced CG graphics at broadcast quality and everything else productive that is done today on much older hardware. Hell we have a old intergraph Graphics Workstation here with dual P-II 350's in it with a old copy of Lightwave that can do amazing things (and has! the M&M animated characters on TV were done on that same hardware and software revision)
and that is with windows, install a properly chosen and configured linux on it and it can be faster "feeling" than a XP machine on modern hardware.
Way too much get's tossed based on a belief that it is un-useable. I fished out of the trash here at work a pair of Dell poweredge servers that had only P-III processors in them. They scream as SQL and File servers at home, and a smaller company would kill for that kind of resources that a larger company happily tosses in a dumpster.
Obsolete = useful in different ways. I have old obsolete 386 pc104 formfactor computers all over michigan on towers acting as ham radio digipeater data collection nodes running an obsolete linux kernel and had rolled Filesystem to fit on a 4meg flash. that 1.X kernel is supposedly "unsafe" but nobody can hack them unless they want to climb up 200 feet.
these old computers would rock for a robot "brain" for robotics... adda rat-shack VEX kit and go the next step from remote control erector set to real robot.
There is lots of life left in "obsolete" computers and computer parts.
Hell I keep around dead motherboards and cards simply because I never have to buy surface mount resistors and capacitors anymore... Harvest the boards for free parts to feed my electronics hobby!
Re:What about all the stuff that doesnt get recycl (Score:3, Interesting)
Electronics are accepted for recycling three days a month from 7:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. The collection is held at the Hazardous Waste Facility located at the Broome County Landfill. There is no fee for residential users. Visit www.gobroomecounty.com or call (607) 778-2250 for collection dates. Materials Ac
Effluent of the affluent? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Effluent of the affluent? (Score:2)
Freecycle? (Score:4, Insightful)
Part of the problem is that we junk our old computers or 'recycle' them. There are plenty of individuals and organisations that don't want or need a brand-new computer and would happily take our old machine. When I was a graduate student, I used to buy second-hand computers from my department every couple of years. I passed on my old machine to my 88-year-old neighbour and slapped Debian Woody on it (it works fine, by the way, and she now uses it constantly for keeping in contact with her family and for genealogy).
These days, if I wanted an old machine, I'd probably use Freecycle [freecycle.org]. This is simply a Yahoo forum for people who want to give away (or get for free!) unneeded items.
Re:Freecycle? (Score:2)
Re:Freecycle? (Score:2)
Re:Freecycle? (Score:2)
Sure I don't do high end stuff but it works perfectly well for the stuff I do.
Mostly text and browsing.
It might use much power but it could still be more efficient than throwing it out.
Especially if it can't be recycled and must be put in a landfull.
P.S. Your site is not working right now.
I know because I go to alot of user's sites.
I just had to use "alot" instead of "a lot" to refer to your sig.
Re:Freecycle? (Score:2)
Not just throwing it out, but throwing it out and manufacturing a new machine. I suspect that the energy that goes into making a new Mini-ATX machine would probably run an old P3 for quite a while; pretty much everything in a computer, from the chips to the metal in the power supply to the plastic in the case, is highly energy-intensive to produce.
It's just like cars: if you're going to buy a new car anyway, then by all means
I second Freecycle. (Score:2)
Really the only downside to it is that it uses Yahoo Groups, which I am not a huge fan of, to run its mailinglist, but aside from this I think it's a good concept, well executed.
I do my part (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I do my part (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I do my part (Score:3, Insightful)
Just how much pr0n are you planning on hosting? An old 10Gb HD will store a full Linux FOTM desktop install. And there will still be lots of room for your 100k of weblog posts.
You do know how to use a voltmeter, right? When the HDs are idle, my webserver draws less current than the 80W motor and five 100W lightbulbs in the ceili
Re:I do my part (Score:2)
I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
Try some compact florescent lightbulbs. And JUST USE ONE. You don't really need more to light a room well.
Re:I do my part (Score:2, Insightful)
a small dedicated router would . Of course if you get your electricity from a renewable source then this is not a problem . These providers will then replace the electricity you
use from the national grid with electricity from renewable/sustianable sources.
That said , even if you don't have clean power reuse is still better than recycling but
please consider your power sources .
Re:I do my part (Score:2)
I'm not sure I agree with the above statement. Unless the supply of 'green' electricity totally covers demand, every unit of electricity you save is one unit less that has to come from 'non green' sources, even if the electricity _you_ are using is completely 'green'.
Of course this is no reason not to use 'green' electricity, just that saving electicity is always worthwhile.
No great solution (Score:2, Insightful)
While I will not purchase from known pulluters if possible (as is my right to choose), I can't say I blame companies if a countr
Economics (Score:4, Insightful)
When the equation changes, we'll figure out a better way and we'll gradually start doing something different. This pattern hasn't changed for centuries.
An interesting business idea (unpatented as of yet) for you speculative investors, would be to collect and safely store (in landfills, or wherever) large amounts of technological waste of known quality (say, cellphones and ipods only, no monitors, or something). Then sit on it for a few decades, and wait for mining and recovery/recycling technology to catch up. Sort of like buying up land that has oil shale on it. You know we'll probably need it someday.
Re:Economics (Score:3, Insightful)
"Cheaper" in the same way that stealing your neighbour's milk is cheaper than paying the milkman for your own milk. Of course, eventually the neighbour will notice; and the longer the theft goes on, the worse the consequences will be. Solution: impose a tax on "virgin" raw materials wherever it would be viable to use a recycled alternative, so it will be cheaper for man
FreeGeek in Portland (Score:3, Informative)
Freegeek operates in Portland. I do volunteer work there and it's a neat place. They take old hardware, strip it, recycle what they can, and the rest gets put into their rebuilding program.
They take the decent stuff, and after testing it gets built into new systems (Yes, they put linux on them!) and given to other non profits, needy types, etc.
The beauty of the system is that they teach volunteers to build these sytems. The volunteers learn a bit, build so 6 systems, then they get to take the sixth home with them.
So, Freegeek does the following:
Recycles old hardware
gives "new" boxes to good causes
teaches people how to build a computer
teaches people how to use linux
gives people who can't afford a computer a chance to earn one
All around, a damn fine setup... And before you ask them, no they don't have one in INSERT YOUR CITY HERE.
Obligatory link to Free Geek (Score:3, Informative)
Dumping? Starving?? So much spin..... (Score:5, Insightful)
> electronics in the world's developing regions, including those in China
I don't see it as dumping if the Chinese are smuggling the stuff in..
I agree that it sucks to live in a third world country, and it sucks to live in a polluted environment. But what will these people do for food if they can't recycle? Will they starve?
It's easy for rich fat Americans and Europeans to be critical of situations that put people and the environment at risk.. But we mostly all have food to eat every day, and homes, and money. I'm reluctant to pass judgement on other people I don't know or understand. If was starving I would work a dangerous job to buy food.
Pointless Upgrades (Score:3, Insightful)
There seems to be a lot of forced upgrading among those who don't need more power, whether that be for new OSs requiring more sophisiticated hardware, or that PC manufacturers have redesigned the internals again and you cannot buy a replacement PSU/whatever for your old machine when it blows.
With more considerations paid to backward compatability as well as component quality I think we could cut waste quite a bit.
This is just an observation. What do you think?
I'm storing until I can recycle (Score:3, Insightful)
I mostly reuse computer cases, just swapping out mainboards. Mainboards and old PCI cards can stack pretty compactly. It's the couple of old dead CRTs that are really taking up the space.
I'll take them somewhere when I can be confident that they'll be handled in a sane manner. They'll probably still be in my basement in 20 years, knowing how fast things move in the environmental regulation area, particularly internationally.
Solution: Reuse old PCs as routers or PVRs! (Score:2, Informative)
For example, old PCs 386 or later, can be reused as a router/firewall. They provide excellent security for your home LAN while keeping it out of the waste pile. Being floppy based, Freesco does NOT require a hard disk! Install the software and reuse the PC or give it to someone who will. See:
http://www.freesco.org/ [freesco.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FREESCO/ [wikipedia.org]
Later PCs, such Pentium 400 MHz or later, can be reused as My
funny tab title (Score:3, Funny)
Slashdot: Where Computers Go To Die.
Struck me as funny anyway.
jeff
sdg
Geeks & nerds just don't throw out computers. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not the enthusiasts that fill up junkyards/landfills/ships to China/India. It's people who don't know/care much about the subject that just junk their stuff as soon as it's no longer the "latest and greatest." It's not just individuals, but companies that do this (although larger companies often have a plan where they send their older hardware to be used in schools or community centers or some such).
Something that every nerd and geek can do to help reduce useful hardware going to junkyards/landfills/overseas is to let their friends and coworkers know that much of the stuff that people are throwing out can be repurposed. This goes for not just computers, but most electronic equipment. A lot of people just throw out their old TVs/VCRs/DVD players/etc. too (even though they still work or just need a tiny repair). And being the person that everyone knows is into recycling/repurposing has the side benefit of probably being the person who receives the hand-me-down hardware!
Widernet (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Bush administration to blame... (Score:4, Insightful)
IMHO Kyoto is dead anyway. (Score:5, Informative)
Not that it really matters, IMHO, it's only a matter of time before Kyoto is officially declared dead. Here in Canada we're hopelessly behind our goal, the only way to meet our target would be to buy a billion dollars of CO2 credits from Russia -- which would have exactly zero impact on CO2 emmissions because Russia's CO2 credit surplus is due to a timing fluke relating to their collapsing economy in the post-Cold War period.
With China, India, and most other developing countries exempt from Kyoto, (and to a lesser extent, the USA opting out) there's very little incentive for those who have signed on to actually do anything. Plus, the costs of meeting the targets through technology (e.g. hybrids, or new power plants, or home upgrades) are enormous.
Re:IMHO Kyoto is dead anyway. (Score:2, Insightful)
And yet it has to happen. There is no way around hybrids, new or upgraded power-plants, energy efficiency measures, alternative fuels for internal combustion engines, home upgrades
Re:IMHO Kyoto is dead anyway. (Score:5, Interesting)
The United States uses 23.6% of the world's energy to to produce 28.4% of the world's gross domestic product---it seems that the U.S. is actually rather efficient. (My source for these is the CIA's World Fact Book [slashdot.org] and a rather large PDF [bp.com] from BP).
It ranks 17th [nationmaster.com] in per capita oil consumption. And it uses less energy per capita [wri.org] than Luxembourg, Iceland, and Candada. Why don't you pick on them for a little while?
Re:IMHO Kyoto is dead anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't value people by how much money they produce.
Most of us in the first world (I Include myself (a Brit) in this) need to cut back on use of the world's resources. Until we come up with less polluting energy generation - that (to a large extent
Re:Why pick on the USA? (Score:2)
Does the fact that Canadians pollute mean that it is OK for the USA to pollute ?
Re:Why pick on the USA? (Score:2)
We all, in the first world, consume more than our fair share of energy per head. The USA is the worst offender partly because it has such a large population.
Now - let's get back to the topic: Kyoto is dead, the USA not ratifying it was a large part of that. Pollution is a huge worldwide issue. We need to fix it.
Re:Why pick on the USA? (Score:2)
Well, by the time it gets so bad that the earth becomes unlivable, I'll be long dead, and not really care anymore. Might as well enjoy the 'party'....
Re:Why pick on the USA? (Score:2)
(Yes, this is a joke. It's just not funny.)
Re:Bush administration to blame... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Bush administration to blame... (Score:2)
Re:Bush administration to blame... (Score:2)
Reason: "Bush administration to blame..." (Score:2)
Factual correctness and logic often takes a backseat to an argument's ability to blame America in general and G.W. Bush in particular, in case you haven't noticed.
Worse... (Score:2)
And when you do, you get to the main page of Saloon, where you have to sift through all the headlines to find your article.
Once you've located it, click on it, you get back to the page where you initially come from, with only the teaser text and the click-on-sponsor link.
Reminds me about the old turn-over-the-card jokes...
Überlame.
Jobs vs toxic waste (Score:2, Interesting)