Land of the Rising Fun 78
I very patiently waited all week before linking to 1up's multi-part Land of the Rising Fun feature. It details several very good, very Japanese titles they've had the pleasure of playing lately. A lot of them are for the DS (no surprise), with Chulip, Odama, and Contact particularly appealing. From the piece: "I've loved Japanese games ever since Pac-Man rocked my childhood. Unfortunately, as the medium matures, its seems more and more Americans take issue with Japan's willingness to defy logic in the name of entertainment. Are the frequently goofy aesthetics of Japanese games a dangerous creative rut? Maybe not. Goofiness is making a comeback, thanks in no small part to the Nintendo DS, which is reaching new audiences with experiences that emphasize creativity above anything so mundane as mere realism."
American games are all the same. (Score:5, Insightful)
Japan is what is keeping creativity in the industry, because companies know that whatever they make will sell to some success over there as long as its not foreign. Foreign meaning Microsoft, mostly. In North America, we see games made for our market fail miserably (Mark Ecko's Getting Up, for example) when some new ideas and brought forth.
It's not an end-all equation, but the people wearing suits in the game industry want to make money and Americans will buy the same thing repeatedly again and again. Sell them what sells, you'll do fine. Or will you? The American market is now so saturated with the same ideas that without any fresh ideas and concepts the market may crash. That's only speculation, though.
Viva la Revolution.
Interestingly... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
Personally, I like games to tell me a story with me playing the lead role. The game mechanics may not change much but the stories are what set them apart. That is why "Doom 3", "Quake 4", "F.E.A.R.", "Comdemned: Criminal Origins" and games like that will always rock my world.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
I'm absolutely certain that the top Japanese video games contain just as much innovation, or lack of it, as the North American ones do. I did a google search for japanese game charts and found
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:5, Insightful)
One could just as easily argue that the Japanese arguilty of rehashing the same old ideas. How many platformers did we have in the 80s that completely copied Mario? How many dating sims are actually needed in the world? And just think how many sequels there are for popular Japanese franchises. How many Mega Man and Final Fantasy games are there? Is there a single American game series that has (if I'm counting right) over a dozen sequels each?
I can think of a ton of original game concepts Americans have come up with. You're just not looking hard enough. Just the top of my head, I saw Will Wright's "Spore" demonstration the other day (use Google Video to find it). It's a simulator that starts you off as a bacteria and pulls the camera back farther and farther until you manage a creature, a society, a world, a galaxy and a universe. It includes procedural programming, incredible AI and a touch of the absurd. It's mindblowing in scope and the guy got a standing ovation at the end of the presentation.
In short, your view is narrowminded and somewhat unjustified. Gaming is a business and as such all businesses crank out new ideas and then ride on them. Japanese, American or otherwise. To think every American video company is the stereotypical EA (which, ironically, will be publishing Spore) is just foolish.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
And, to be fair, every single Final Fantasy game has had sigificant differences, albeit typically with connecting themes. Even X-2 had significant differences in system/style from FFX.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
EA Sports games cater to a certain market -- the sports fan -- who wants the new version every year with the new rosters, rule changes, etc. There's nothing wrong with making sequels if that's what the market/genre demands. I've been buying their NHL game since the mid 90s, and I'll keep buying it every year for as long as I'm a hockey fan and a gamer. A sequel is not always a bad thing, especially in this case.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
We just need them not to suck.
I'm looking at you, Lara Croft.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:3, Informative)
RTS (WarCraft, C&C) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy#Th e_beginnings:_1983_--_1992 [wikipedia.org]
Sim games (like SimCity, SimTower, etc)
FPS (Wolfenstein 3D and Doom) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter [wikipedia.org]
These genres are still great heaps of fun, depending on how the gameplay actually turns out. Recent ones I agree Spore looks amazing. Civilization games are getting better for each release.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
just sayin', is all...
For example, Will Wright's new game, Spore: (Score:1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXMsWNGcbP4&search
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2, Insightful)
There is a massive difference between SMBW and SM64, or FF3 and FFX. Japanese franchises reuse characters and basic genre elements (i.e. platformer, RPG, etc), but make drastically different games. In the US, a sequel is the difference between Madden 05 and Madden 06, games with little difference other than graphics and rosters. FPSs are becoming
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
I suppose you could say they haven't changed much if you are talking gameplay mechanics, but I would argue that the gameplay experience has been very different in both of those series. Look at the differences between SMB1-SMW. You would have to be on crack to say that 2 is a rehash of the first.
The zelda series has done a very good job of changing it up. Every new generation seems to keep enough of the old to let you know that you are playing a zelda game, but changes enough to give a totally new experie
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
Depends on which one you are talking about. The game released in the US as SMB2 was a different game rebranded to be a Mario Bros game, the "real" SMB 2 was known as Lost Levels in the west, it was indeed a rehash of SMB.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
What are you talking about? Final Fantasy has deviated little since FF1; I would know, having played every single game. The biggest change happened in FF2 (japanese numbering); where characters were plot driven, rather than user driven. The battle system is almost exactly the same, and while there are little
What is innovation? (Score:2)
For example, the parent post says that all Final Fantasy games have, "Random battles, spells and bosses." Of course, so do many other games in the RPG genre, such as the old Wizardry games. How much change is needed before something is really inno
Re:What is innovation? (Score:1)
The Materia system and the Sphere Grid were merely new ways to get said spells You can hardly say that Square have avoided making a quick buck (FFX-2) or using the series' name to promote games seeming unrelated (FFXI). How long did it take for Square to drop the prerendering technique? Unless FFXII releases between the time I type this and the time I click submit, they haven't. That doesn't mean I won't play it sometime (genera
Re:What is innovation? (Score:2)
Not really. You obviously have what you feel is a good definition of innovation, but there are a lot of people that will disagree with you. If there's a solid definition for innovation, then why don't you share it with the rest of us?
You can hardly say that Square...
You seem to have a beef with Final Fantasy and Square that is affecting objectivity. Some of the points you bring up have very little to do with gameplay innovation ("
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
Ah, a challenge.
Your point stands that you can come up with many more Japanese examples than US examples, but the set of US examples is definitely not empty.
Assuming you mean "sequels" in the sense that the "sequel" is at least in the same basic genre as the original, barring technology advances (i.e., Mario 64 is a sequel to Super Mario Brothers by a clear progression, but Super Mario Cart is not), I have:
Alka
Over a dozen sequels? Sure. (Score:2)
Every single EA sports franchise? :-)
Sequels aren't a bad thing per se. The bad thing is when stuff doesn't change between versions of a game. Look at Mario's Jump-N-Run games. There have never been more than two versions using the same game mechanics (Mario 1 and Mario: Lost Levels, and possible Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine), while most western FPS use the same engines and mechanics even in different franch
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
I think his point is that the Japanese market is more receptive to quirky ideas than the American one.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:1)
Even though some of the megaman games are VERY similar, at least you get a truckload more levels. The Final Fantasy games are always similar, but compare the battle systems and plots and you'll see they are very different beasts.
What's the difference between two versions of FIFA or Madden? New team sheets? Maybe a new type of pass? Certainly nothing that makes much differe
Your arguement has failed. Here's why. (Score:2)
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
Its another Sim* game tweaking the old Populus formula [mobygames.com] from the 80s. Not exactly breaking new ground here.
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:2)
Actually, if you listen to his speech Will Wright states that "Spore" is really nothing more than 6 or so different pre-existing ideas rolled up into one big game using modern technology.
How many platformers did we have in the 80s that completely copie
Re:American games are all the same. (Score:3, Insightful)
If your tastes run to more experimental stuff, try poking around on the PC rather than the console. The barrier to entry in the PC market is much, much lower.
Goofy never died - just look at Warcraft... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Goofy never died - just look at Warcraft... (Score:2)
Re:Goofy never died - just look at Warcraft... (Score:2)
Re:Goofy never died - just look at Warcraft... (Score:2)
Though...to be fair, those quotes will never come up in normal gameplay. You have to trigger them by clicking units at least 4-5 times in a row. Humor that you can have anytime you want to, but the way it's done it won't come into normal gameplay unless you do want it to.
Re:Goofy never died - just look at Warcraft... (Score:2)
Pokie Man (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps Japanese kids *will* find it predictable because it fits their culture. It appears the advantage of watching other nation's entertainment is more surprises. However, sometimes it does not make a lot of sense to the other group and it leaves you scratching your head a bit.
Re:Pokie Man (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Pokemon was a fad (Score:1)
Some of them have some good chuckles in them. For example, in one episode a morphing Pokemon transforms into a photograph of a lady's boyfriend. The lady picks up the picture not knowing about the trick and starts talking to it, pretending she's talking t
I sometimes wonder whether it's really the case... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I sometimes wonder whether it's really the case (Score:2)
I think it's partly the consumer's fault- they'll rush right out and buy a million copies of ISS Pro, or Project Gotham Racing, but they won't lavish the same money on Oddworld:Stranger's wrath (I'm still reeling from playing that last summer), Forza Motorsport (which kick's Gran Turismo's simulation ass, and had play over xbox live) or Lumine
Re:Taking issue with the games is not because of t (Score:2, Funny)
Which reminds me, your mom says to call, she misses you.
Re:Taking issue with the games is not because of t (Score:2)
Re:Taking issue with the games is not because of t (Score:1)
Re:Taking issue with the games is not because of t (Score:1)
Face it, there is a seedy underbelly in the Japanese game and animation market that caters to pedophiles, would-be rapists, and social degenerates. This marginal group is a black mark on the rest of the Japanese game and animation industry which does nothing to distance itself from the dreck.
What an original title for Japanese Gaming Topic! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What an original title for Japanese Gaming Topi (Score:2)
[groans]
We don't own sequels/rehashes (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:We don't own sequels/rehashes (Score:1)
Re:We don't own sequels/rehashes (Score:2)
Re:We don't own sequels/rehashes (Score:2)
Ooooooh yes they will.
Re:We don't own sequels/rehashes (Score:2)
Street Fighter imploded on itself and never fully recovered. (SF3 is considered to be a failure compared to SF2's insane success.)
Mega Man started declining early (around the 4th and 5th games) and actually resulting in a stronger resistance to simply milking the series. (The X games only was SUPPOSED to end at X
Chulip! (Score:2, Interesting)
Did goofiness ever leave Japan? (Score:5, Funny)
The Japanese sense of style is completely bizarre, and what little translates in the American does so more as a joke than literally.
My girlfriend: That hat is not stylish. Why are you wearing it?
Me: Because it is a warm hat, and it is very cold out today
My girlfriend: but it is not stylish. Take it off!
Me: Uhhh.....no
My gloveless hatless skirt-wearing girlfriend (in Japanese): I'm cold...
I will never understand Japanese...
Re:Did goofiness ever leave Japan? (Score:2)
Having a scantily-clad girlfriend must be a terrible burden.
Re:Did goofiness ever leave Japan? (Score:1)
Re:Did goofiness ever leave Japan? (Score:1)
Heh, the bag is too expensive (Score:2)
Just the Japanese difference (Score:4, Interesting)
The most popular games here are all the same, look at the UK charts, it's almost tragic: shooting, popular licences, sports, racing, always the same genres, always the most uncreative of the bunch. You serve them the same sport game every year and they buy it ! The public is not even curious towards different games, on the contrary, their difference is the best reason to dismiss them. It's almost an allergy to imagination and it's a feeling perceptible towards art in general too.
There is, to some extent, the same thing happening in Japan, some genres perform better than some others and some licences are more popular than ever, but the major difference is that imagination always has a place in Japan; so once in a while you see an unsual game ranking high in the charts, because the Japanese gamers have the open-mindedness to look into it and sometimes accept its singularity. The other difference also, is that game makers in Japan are willing to take riskes, their approach to game making is, I suspect, radically different than here in the West.
They have a passion for creating new games, even within established genres, like the shooting games that keep coming on Dreamcast. No one in the West would be brave enough support a dead console ! They don't think "how am I going to please the public ?", in the West that would be by giving them their fodder, thrill and violence, but they try fore and foremost to make interesting concepts come alive, concepts that they find appealing, amusing. They think as gamers, not as marketers.
Shinji Mikami, from Capcom, once said the public is stupid. I'm quite sure the same thought must cross many minds in the industry. But in the West, even knowing this, we still give them what they want while in the East they fight to impose their ideas. It is the definition of an auteur, like in the film industry, and that's the key difference perhaps: in Japan they have many auteurs (which has nothing to do with being famous), here we only have a few.
Japan anyway has always been a creative leading force in the world, from their traditional art which deeply influenced European art to the unique style of their animation; it's perhaps because they never completely forgot their past and traditions, which are still felt strongly in every aspect of their contemporary culture, as films like Chihiro and games like Okami suggest.
Re:Just the Japanese difference (Score:1)
Re:Just the Japanese difference (Score:2)
No, I dispute this. It's just that Japanese culture is currently trendy, and so whatever there that seems different from the rest of the world seems great to us.
The Japanese are no more creative than any other culture. Indeed, it might be possible to make an arguement that their tremendously conforming social structures make them less individualistic -- though I will not claim that myself at this time.
There are plenty of ingenious things t
Re:Just the Japanese difference (Score:1)
Re:Just the Japanese difference (Score:2)
I'd give examples, but I gotta run at for now. Mayb
Grass is always greener? (Score:2)
Seems to me that the "West" (or at least the U.S. and Canada) are more receptive of different games/genres than the Japanese are. Actually, the Koreans are pretty open minded too, IIRC.
Re:Grass is always greener? (Score:1)
Pun (Score:1)
The charts say it (Score:1)
My thoughts on Japan (Score:1)
"Is anyone even surprised that this kind of stuff would come from Japan? That whole country is like Bizarro world. They do everything we do, just in a really strange way. It reminds me of that scene in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" where they go near Toontown, and you can see clouds of smoke and yelling and fighting and all sorts of haywire shit happening above the horizon to signify the complete and total lunacy of the place. Japan i