Pepper Pad, an Open Alternative to MS Origami 188
SilentBob4 writes to tell us that MadPenguin has a look at an open alternative to Microsoft's Origami, the Pepper Pad. From the article: "The Pepper Pad, like Origami, is a mid-point form factor PC that is bigger and more powerful than a PDA, but smaller and less optimized for traditional desktop PC tasks than a notebook computer or a desktop PC. The Pepper Pad is a good buy for people who would like to have a light-weight, dirt-simple, point-and-click open source device for watching videos, listening to music, reading e-books, and doing simple web surfing with a view screen that is actually easy to read. If you want do more than that, you are really better off getting a small Linux notebook, unless you are willing to get under the hood (which you can do with the Pepper Pad!) and start compiling for yourself."
Input (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Input (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that handwriting is a MUCH better approach than trying to do voice recognition, which another poster said. You could use it in a croweded room and not worry about either interference or being heard, or in a library. Depending on the application, handwriting recoginition could be better than a keyboard too. It'd probably be faster for almost everyone (even if it would be possible to type faster, I would guess almost no one would sp
Re:Washington Post says M$ Handwriting Blows (Score:2)
Re:Washington Post says M$ Handwriting Blows (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
i was disappointed when i saw the measures of a device. 30x17cm , this is like
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Input (Score:2)
btw, what computer was that in the beginning of mission impossible 3 ? looked like something with small screen but full keyboard
so bottom line is: if you wanna whip something out to write on, whip a small laptop
actually, it's a good design (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)
We don't buy products to do what others want to do, we buy them for what WE want to do. At least, that's what the sane among us do.
To try to confine our views to what the machine claims to do is to fall prey to marketing.
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
In this case, we're talking about a device which is in a certain form factor, and that form factor requires it to be capable of doing certain things, or it's not useful. Just like a unicycle is useless compared to a bicycle, if this device is incapable of meeting the standard set by similar devices in functionality, then it is forced to be judged similarly.
Sure, a unicycle is
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably because the article is pretty much Linux boosterism. They start with the untrue claim that this has beaten the windows devices to market. Some Windows devices have already shipped.
I get a bit tired of apple/linux advocacy of the 'lets ignore every defect of our system' variety. Its like watching the idiot tal
Re:Input (Score:2)
OK, I still don't see a reason to say Microsoft is 'pimping' Origami. Its unprofessional to talk that way and it just irritates people who are not hardcore Microsoft haters.
Re:Input (Score:2)
Re:Input (Score:2)
As I said earlier, the original premise here was that these devices would be cheap. Of course the main determinant of cheap is volume so you don't get cheap by stripping out features.
I think that is is possible to have either a small disk or no DVD support, both is a disaster. What I would want to do with the device is to fill i
Re:Input (Score:2)
The size of the device makes it clear that it has a laptop motherboard inside.
It runs an Intel XScale processor, not a desktop/laptop x86 one. I assure you it is not a laptop mobo inside.
Incidentally, I am a little suspicious of just how available the device is.
I am more than a little worried about this too. I was thinking about ordering one (after finishing reading all reviews I could find), but it doesn't seem to be too available right now.
Not Bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Other than that - cool!
One question though - how do you hold these things safely? You know, like Laptops not being recommended for use in your lap? Laptops (or notebooks, whatever), will sit fine on a table, these things don't look like they would. I noticed a small stand on the back of the image but - I dunno - it seems more like a device I'd want to hold rather than have it set up on a table or desk - sort of kills the portability aspect for me.
Another product solution (Score:2, Insightful)
This is what happens when engineers get to spec what they like, without requirements.
Re:Another product solution (Score:4, Interesting)
Add in a fresnel lens (think Brazil [quxmore.com]) to keep from going blind, and I don't see any advantage. And for those who like to keep their hands on the keyboard, using a touch pen is worse than a mouse. I saw a video demonstrating some of the earliest interfaces (early Englebert groundbreaking stuff in the 50s). At first they used a pen but found that people became very tired very quickly when they had to point at the screen with it repetively. With the Sony mentioned above in the propped up position, using the stylus pointer would be very tiring.
The fact is, we have hands of a particular size, visual capabilities of a particular resolution, and pockets too small to fit a device that meets those physical requirements. A pocketable AND usable computer is going to take some big leaps -- for instance glasses that function as high res displays (at reasonable prices, weights, and appearances) and a real break from finger oriented input. Whoever figures out how to free input from dependence on the human hand will make a bundle -- and they should because it isn't going to be an easy feat.
I dunno... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't get the "gotta have" with this.
Tablet PCs that are able to run Linux are cheaper, if you're looking for a hard-disk based solution.
Re:I dunno... (Score:2)
I assume you mean this trisoft offering. [trisoft.de]
Eh, no. That's less than half the product for the same price! (There's a $150 rebate on Pepper Pad if you go to their website. Good until the end of May.)
As for Dynamism [dynamism.com], I don't see anything on there that's linux, and nothing less than $1000. (Most are $2000+)
Prove me wrong. Please. I actively want to be wrong here.
Re:I dunno... (Score:2)
Re:I dunno... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I dunno... (Score:2)
Unfortunately, I just noticed it doesn't use a standard kde or gnome desktop. That's not really what I'm looking for. Oh well. Money saved, I guess.
The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:5, Informative)
See for yourself...
- It was announced back in 2004, and Engadget mentioned it:
http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/08/the-pepper-pad
Then Tux Magazine reviewed it in April 2005, and it was still not available to the public:
http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000125 [tuxmagazine.com]
Now it's available for sale, but for the price it's selling ($850), you can easily pick a cheap laptop with far more expandability for quite less.
Do you think it's portable? Think again. Look at the dimensions:
http://www.pepper.com/products/specifications.htm
12.1" x 6.6" x 0.8" (309 x 175 x 20mm)
2.3 lbs (1043 grams)
Now, for something this big, why not get something that's cheaper and just better like say, the Dell Inspiron B120 for $499, with free memory and wifi upgrades? See for yourself:
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features
Just my 2 cents....
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
WTF, man?! You're complaining that the 2.3 lb Pepper Pad is too big, and then recommend getting a 6.41 lb Dell [dell.com] instead?! That just doesn't make sense.
Now, I'll tell you the real reason why nobody wants the damn thing: it's too flat-out weird. First of all, it runs Linux (no flames please; everyone should be able to admit that most people don't use
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody gives a stuff what OS it runs. As long as you can double-click the movie/audio icons to play them, most consumers won't notice that it's different to windows under the hood. They'd expect a device like this to have differences to a fully-fledged computer.
Second, it's got a strange keyboard that you probably can't touch-type on.
And yet, people are destroying their thumbs on mobile phone keypads daily. This is a step up from that, at the very least, and is not designed to be used to enter a lot of information. The article specifically says it's designed for media consumption - playing audio, video and surfing the web. If you think you're going to be using this thing to write reports, buy a laptop.
And finally, it's slow. I don't care what kind of IPC it has; 624 MHz just isn't fast enough for something big enough to be a real computer.
It's not trying to be a real computer. It's trying to be a media station. Nobody who uses it will care how fast it's clock-cycles are as long it doesn't skip during DVD playback.
Now, you wanna know how to fix it? Turn it into a convertible tablet with a real keyboard, put in a bigger (10.4") screen, give it a decent CPU (e.g. 1+ GHz) and more RAM, and (as much as it pains me to say it) put Windows Tablet Edition (or better yet, Mac OS, but that's just a fantasy) on it.
So, turn it into a laptop? I think all you've done is prove that you're not the target market for this device.
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
I don't care what it's intended for, I only care about what it actually is. And what it actually is is an overpriced, obsolete laptop with a weird keyboard and tiny screen.
Besides, everything you just mentioned can be done just as well on a $250 PSP.
Errata (Score:2)
I meant Fujitsu P1510D, not T4020 -- the T series is the big, heavy one.
Also, I forgot to mention that I'm also considering the iRex iLiad [engadget.com], which is an e-ink ebook reader (but has the right specifications to be a PDA with a nice big screen). At the moment, the finalists in my decision are it and the X41 (but I'm waiting to see if anything better comes out this summer, since I don't need it until school in the fall).
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
And these people specifically designed it for uses that don't involve a lot of typing. This is not the device you're looking for. When I was commuting, I would have loved a device like this, except for two things. Price. $800 is way, way too expensive for a portable media player. And no DVD drive. I have no idea what the hell they're thinking not including a DVD drive on a media
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
And if they didn't design it for typing, why bother including a keyboard at all?
I agree with you about the price and DVD
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
Probably because entering text any other way is infuriating at best, and there's always a need to enter some text.
Even if one only ever uses it as a web browser, it will still be necesisary to give it URLs by hand. Just trying to pick out "slashdot.org" with a schrollwheel letter chooser would be enough to drive me to violence.
Having spent much too much time trying to enter strings of text into test equipment with and without l
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:3, Insightful)
People writing vertical apps certainly do. And being one of the few devices running Linux in that form factor makes it quite attractive, in particular given the price.
The PepperPad Keyboard. (Score:2)
You think that people won't buy the Blackberry because it has a "strange" thumb operated keyboard? Sorry, I've talked to lawyers that love them.
Re:The PepperPad Keyboard. (Score:2)
Linux is why it works. (Score:2)
Your reasoning is less than convincing. It's hard to determine the market reaction to a device that's just become available, so I'm not convinced that "nobody wan
Re:Linux is why it works. (Score:2)
This thing has been available for over a year.
I know that; I think Linux is great. But everyone else does not know it, and everyone else is who it would have to appeal to if they want to sell more than one.
For what it's worth, if I end up getting a Tab
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2, Informative)
This is not a new device
No, it's not a new device. I reviewed this product now because of the hype around Origami. For those of us who don't like DRM, and do like open source, I wanted to talk about the Pepper Pad in comparison to Origami. IIRC, none of the reviews that you cite in your post were written at a time when Origami had been announced. That's what's new. The context.
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
When considering a purchase, the future I care about is not what the next generation will be, but what this generation will be a couple years from now. And if I buy a pepper pad now, in a year that stunning two hours of battery life is going to be down to a "2-minute dash to find an outlet before the bloody thing dies".
These guys have some real problems. Yes, they've got a neat idea
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:2)
Paper Pad (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Paper Pad (Score:2)
Re:Paper Pad (Score:2)
Re:Obligatory PocketMod link (Score:2)
"At this time, you cannot do this"... (Score:3, Informative)
Currently, it only synchronizes with Windows (even though its marketed for the open source community)... being a software issue, I'm certain that they'll eventually port it to Linux.. The 2 hour battery life will need some improvement.. Their FAQ contains too many "At this time, you cannot do this".. and worst of all is that it may not support 3rd party applications...
I'll check in on the Pepper Pad in a few months to see how its improved...
Not sure (Score:2)
Re:Not sure (Score:2)
To me, there are two basic form factors for a portable device: Something that can fit in my pocket, so it's easy to carry around, and something that I haul around in a case and leave in my car if I'm not going to use it during this part of my trip.
If I'm going to lug something around that's bigger than a Sidekick or an iPod, I'd might as well bring along my laptop, a 17" PowerBook. Then I have everything I need at my fingertips, and I'm not confined to passive reading.
What
Re:Not sure (Score:2)
So you run as root? (Score:2)
Open Source? (Score:2)
I'm interested... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Input
So far, it's hard to beat a keyboard for actually getting stuff done. Even when playing games, I tend to like having lots of little keys to use instead of a chunky controller with buttons, knobs and levers. Touch screens will do for a pointing device, although touching a screen is less continuous than holding a mouse, so mice still have their advantages. Still, touch screens are very useful for some things (market checkouts or anything with an incremental flow of finite options) and I'd like to see them become more commonplace, but you still can't use them for text entry.
2) Software and Flexibility
TFA also mentions that the "Pepper Pad" also lacks useful preloaded software (eg. a calendar). Hardware is useless without some intelligent, useable software to run on it. Also, the Pepper Pad would make a wonderful handheld media device if not for the price tag, which begs that the device be used as more than just a replacement for a portable DVD player. As per the "solution waiting for a problem" comment, people are yet to really think of what software you'd want specifically for a device like this, with these abilities, that you can carry with you.
3) Internet Availability, Battery Power (Wirelessness)
This last one is rather simple, in that an Internet-aware device is useful for accessing all that the Web and Net have to offer... provided you have access to the Internet. Wi-Fi is still far from obiquitious. And, if a device needs to suckle on a wall socket (or a car's 12V plug) after 45 mins of heavy use, its not really very "wireless" or "portable".
And there are my 3 cents.
Way too many buttons and controls. (Score:2)
OTOH, it's good to see more of this style of device. One day someone will get it right.
Re:Way too many buttons and controls. (Score:2, Interesting)
Get rid of all the buttons and use a proper virtual keyboard on a touch sensitive screen.
You are right about the thumbpad keyboard. The keys are rubbery and gummy, and they kind of roll under your fingers. It's annoying. BUT. Consider the alternatives. Unfortunately, the alternatives are not good. You suggested a touch keyboard, but IMHO, that would be even worse than the rubbery, slippery thumbkeys. From having used the Pepper Pad to write much of TFA, I can tell you that you
Re:Way too many buttons and controls. (Score:2)
The alternative is to turn it into a laptop (or actually a convertible tablet) with a real keyboard. The thing is certainly big enough for it!
Nokia 770 anyone? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nokia 770 anyone? (Score:2)
Re:Nokia 770 anyone? (Score:2)
Pepper apparently not up to Origami performance. (Score:2)
Re:Pepper apparently not up to Origami performance (Score:2)
Aye, that's the question, isn't it? It seems that no company thinks "just a big PDA" would sell (but they're wrong), so they all try to add some kind of "twist" to it (like the Pepper Pad being for multimedia).
That said, the closest I've found to "just a big PDA" is this [engadget.com]. Its "twist" is that it has a grayscale e-ink display ('cause it's supposed to be an ebook reader), but aside from that it is exactly a big PDA.
Completely useless (Score:2, Insightful)
If you want something that you can take anywhere, jot down a couple of notes, keep track of a calendar, etc. You also shouldn't buy this.
How many people are going to buy this thing just to watch movies? I know that I wouldn't want to spend this much money on something with only one function. And most of my routine web browsing necessitates a lot of typing (slashdot, forums, etc.)
No 'VGA' output (Score:2)
Re:No 'VGA' output (Score:2)
SD card VGA out for Palm (Score:2)
For taking your ppt slides and easily presenting, you could use a palm and a SD adapter.
I have a Treo 650 that can edit ppt slides as well, so you could make minor changes before the presentation and dump it out on your SD card.
I have not tried the SD VGA for my Treo, but I assume it would work.
Sure, I'm buying one tomorrow!! (Score:2, Funny)
Wow, that is übercool...:P
Never heard of the Newton [wikipedia.org] I suppose...
"cable with the large USB ports" (Score:2)
How ignorant can you get and still be able to post these reviews? USB doesn't do host to host, which is why these cables don't exist. However, there are USB to USB networking dongles with some buffer memory, which both ends see as
Re:"cable with the large USB ports" (Score:2)
PCs with firewire do this exactly the same (Score:2)
Newtons, all of 'em. (Score:2)
But that's besides the point. The point is, Origami looks suspiciously like a Newton. It's spawned some fat and ugly Newton-wanna-be's, true, but they're Newtons... too big to fit into the pocket, but doesn't have a clamshell keyboard to make it a subnotebook.
I find it endlessly entertaining that Microsof
Re:Newtons, all of 'em. (Score:4, Interesting)
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Everyone who sees my Newton 2100 (which I still use on a daily basis) is impressed by one particular thing: its screen real estate. Yeah, it's bigger than a Palm Pilot, but it also does more. Plus, you don't have to learn some new inane way of writing; you just write (or print). That's the second thing that impresses...writing in English (and yes, we've all heard the Trudeau jokes, but the HWR on the 2000 and 2100 was simply superb) anywhere on the screen instead of writing hieroglyphs on top of each other in one spot and numbers in another until the touch membrane is deformed.
This Pepper Pad needs its bright color screen combined with the Newton's ease-of-input and battery life. Then then they'd have a winner.
That's nice, but give me an ARM powered laptop... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:That's nice, but give me an ARM powered laptop. (Score:3, Informative)
Why I don't find this interesting (Score:2)
Well, the summary pretty much nailed why I won't buy one. It's neither as small as necessary to carry it conveniently, or powerful enough to compare with a laptop.
How 'bout the "Hanlin V2" if it actually shows up? (Score:2)
This looked interesting...
V2 eBook Reader [jinke.com.cn]
SRP $349, runs Linux, aimed at EU and US markets... they're hooked up with E-Ink and have China-scale overhead, so maybe $349 SRP will translate to $200-$250 street price if they actually release this... looks like more than the usual vaporware.
specs [jinke.com.cn]
I wish the E-Ink prototype kit didn't cost $3,000 or I'd just build my own
Re:How 'bout the "Hanlin V2" if it actually shows (Score:2)
Re:How 'bout the "Hanlin V2" if it actually shows (Score:2)
wait wait wait... europe.nokia.com? why do they get all the good stuff? am i "allowed" to have one of these in the US? (If not i guess I could move)
Yeah, that's very nearly it. I may settle for this despite the propietary os. 3 hours isn't quite enough battery life, but yeah, the Nokia 770 looks like it would do "enough" to get me by... thanks for the tip.
Nokia has apparently created and (for the moment) supports maemo.org [maemo.org], a developer site for the developer's kit that ONLY supports at th
Re:How 'bout the "Hanlin V2" if it actually shows (Score:2)
Where did you hear that the 2006 OS will cost money?
Re:How 'bout the "Hanlin V2" if it actually shows (Score:2)
OS update costing money:
1) they distinguish between [nokia.com] "Software Update" and "Operating System Upgrade," a sign of potential trouble if ever there was one
2) This FAQ [nokia.com] which is almost impossible to find without stumbling into... and the fact that they've raised the idea of "price" in the make-believe question in the FAQ
DRM Coming Soon! (Score:2)
Didnt see a price either other then 'subject to change'.. Change from what?
Can I please just get a Notepad.... (Score:2)
I don't want a subnotebook with a touch sensitive screen, integrated keyboard, 5 different input ports, Bose quality speakers and a DVD player.... it's a tablet, if I wanted all that I would get a subnotebook.
Give me a good touch sensitive screen, about 9 x 12 with a handle and a stylus and no more than 1/4 in. 'frame' so the wh
No PDF? (Score:2)
(Still waiting on my iLiad [irextechnologies.com].)
So how is this any better than the Nokia 770? (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean the 770 already has an active community [maemo.org] behind it and an open development environment [maemo.org] that you can dig right into.
Yes, the 770 is a bit underpowered but the form factor looks MUCH better than the Pepper Pad. Plus I can go to the store and get one NOW.
Re:Who chooses these names? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Who chooses these names? (Score:2)
Re:Who chooses these names? (Score:2)
Insert remark about recent births to celebrities here.
Re:Heh not yet there... (Score:2)
As it has been for years, with decent connectivity the web server can do the hard work or you can run the app on the server and display it with X windows. The little thin client on the floor behind me runs X windows on Windows CE and has less processing power than the average handheld video game - so it could even be a low end Microsoft OS on your handheld giving you access to those resource hungry apps.
There's
Re:Does that come with a cell phone? (Score:2)
Re:No thanks (Score:3, Insightful)
I like this design a lot. good subway, bathroom, and meeting computer. Not so great if you just want something to take from office to home to hotel, or need something more pocketable and forgettable.