ATI's Radeon X1900GT On Test 101
An anonymous reader writes "ATI's Radeon X1800XT reached end of life last month and the company announced its replacement on May 5th: Radeon X1900GT. Bit-Tech has put a pair of retail Radeon X1900GT cards from Connect3D and Sapphire to the test in a range of real-world benchmarks to find out how it matches up to NVIIDA's 7900 GT."
Need more competitors (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sure the benchmarks are very impressive, after all, they were pretty impressive last time the tests were run. But now that we've got the "quantity" in these cards, it's high time we got some of that Open Source "quality" along with it.
nVidia (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately the same cannot be same for ATI. ATI drivers are flaky and as a developer features are missing under Linux that exist in Windows.
Re:nVidia (Score:3, Informative)
accelerated 3d
I do 3d development under Linux using OpenSceneGraph [openscenegraph.org]. I can personally attest to the fact that 3d acceleration works under Linux. framebuffer
Why the hell you want to use framebuffer with a spiffed up card is beyond me but yes, nVidia has a framebuffer driver, and here's a walkthruough: here [comcast.net]
2d & video out
Haven't used it personally but I have friends who do. Again, same driver code is shared between Windows and Linux.
Also of interest:
NVIDIA also provides an ope
Re:nVidia (Score:4, Funny)
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
I do more arguing than is good for anyone on this thing but what keeps me from getting even more out of hand is remembering this joke...
And if anyone out there is under the impression that I think jokes about the disabled are funny, well, you're right. I just want to clear that up now before the whinging begins...
Re:nVidia (Score:1, Troll)
1) You seem to have missed one 'blow' - namely across all platforms
2) I am aware they all that functionality exists in the closed driver - it did three years ago (when I last had a Nvidia product). But they do not all work together (try having AGP & framebuffer support & switching between X and the console a few times).
And yes - I should have made point two clearer in my original post.
Re:nVidia (Score:3, Funny)
And yes you can run AGP + fb and switch between X and console just fine with the current driver
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
*Snort* You don't know what a platform is do you? You can run linux on Apples (PPC or whatever), as well as IA64, AMD64, etc etc.
Is nvidia supported on them?
And yes you can run AGP + fb and switch between X and console just fine with the current driver
People are reporting proble
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
I repeat here folks - if you want to use linux to its full capabilities DO NOT BUY NVIDIA OR ATI
If you want to have fast 3d in X & are happy with bugs elswhere, follow evershill's advice.
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
You also have to think about this. Why the hell are you trying to run in framebuffer. Do you know what framebuffer is? It isn't accelerated. You are ditching the whole reason you bought a card with a hardware accelerator. The argument is inanae. I've seen it work under FC4, but again it is pointless. Call me a shill if you will - I do 3D graphics rendering for simulations, so this is my job and my life, not just a hobby to flame people on slashdot
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
That's funny - I thought you wrote:
As far as I can see, the bug appears to have been fixed in late 2005 (but nvidia don't have a public BTS, so who knows)
You also have to think about this. Why the hell are you trying to run in framebuffer
I love being told that the solution to a problem is to stop using something.
Do you know what framebuffer is? It isn't accelerated.
Thank you captain obvious, some people l
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
I think you missed the poster's point...
Whin
Re:nVidia (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it can't. Perhaps it could, but that's like saying GIMP could do a helluva lot more than Photoshop. if only someone programmed and released it. nVidia chose not to release their code, and wheather they should or shouldn't out of business reasons is another question but what should oblige them to do it? Nothing. So without them, you wouldn't have anything of nVidias code at all. Same goes for the specs. Would you prefered it if there was no driver at all? Because thst is the alternative.
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
No, you misunderstood the point of my post.
Windows runs on one platform. Linux on Many.
Windows has one GDI. Linux lets you swap between the framebuffer & X.
That's two examples of things linux can do that windows can't. They're also three things Nvidia doesn't (fully) support (but other graphics cards do)
Would you prefered it if there was no driver at all?
Yes
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
No, Linux does do many things Windows doesn't. For instance, you have control over little things like what channel your wifi card is on - not so with Windows XP, especially since most manufacturers have decided to force you to let Windows XP manage your nic. Unfortunately XP always uses channel 11 when creating ad-hoc networks.
There are of course also other examples, like the vast IP filtering and queueing architecture built into linux; NT has some of that functionality, but not much of it.
You're jus
s-video out on nVidia (Score:2)
Re:nVidia vs ATI (Score:3, Interesting)
ATi drivers suck under Windows too (Score:3, Interesting)
The ATi drivers are absolutely crap no matter what
.Net? (Score:1)
I think ATI control center is written using .Net framework. It is basically the same as if they had written it using Java...
Re:.Net? (Score:2)
*sigh*
Re:ATi drivers suck under Windows too (Score:2)
I had to remove the catalyst control center because it was bluescreening my windows XP system. I was using the latest release of the driver and CCC, and every application works just great with the card - since I removed CCC.
ATI is a lot better than they used to be, but they still can't write drivers. I won't be trying them again any time in the next five years or so. (The card had the best performance in my price range...)
Re:nVidia (Score:3, Interesting)
The world DOES need more competitors and open drivers. The latter will remove one really big tether to win32.
Re:nVidia (Score:2)
NVidia compatability (Score:2)
Pay the bills, get the support. (Score:3, Insightful)
Nothing is wrong in accepting drivers from the companies even if they do not provide the source. If you don't like the terms then by all means go write them yourself or use ones written by others. What irks me the most is how so many now suddenly feel entitled to having code provided t
Re:Need more competitors (Score:2)
At the same time the argument can be made that there isn't a big enough of a marketshare for PC gamers running Linux. Hell, you see it in the set-top box versus PC gamer arguments; PC gaming is having a hard time right now... What better to do than to introduce such a small demographic
Re:Need more competitors (Score:4, Informative)
*Diablo II
*Warcraft III
*Half-Life (pre-steam) w/ all games
*Return to Castle Wolfenstein
List of games I know will run in Linux:
*World of Warcraft
*Half-Life 2 and mods
Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. (Yes, I know the list is a bit short.) But I own all the games on that list and their ability to run in Linux is great because I really plan on shedding Windows for good with this next PC upgrade. There are others games that I think run in Linux. Tribes 2 had a Linux version and I think NWN was going to eventually get Linux support.
Yes, the market for Linux gaming is a lot smaller, but it does still exist. Some companies have released commercial versions of games to run in Linux and id gave away the Linux client for RtCW (though you need the game for its data files). The rest can be made to run in wine. Still, the point is valid. There is no reason for companies to release open source drivers if they don't want to do it. The fact they release drivers at all is actually somewhat impressive.
Re:Need more competitors (Score:2)
Re:Need more competitors (Score:2)
What point would that be?
Look, nothing against the Linux crowd here but the fact is most of Linux's inroads have been in the server market. When we see a marketshare of a few percent the over all outlook on that number is that the majority is servers. Sure, there is still a couple of percentage points left for the Linux hobbiest. Most Linux hobbiests continue to run Windows PCs (yourself included). The gaming market is overwhelmingly PC. we're talking in the 99%+ arena.
So you p
Re:Need more competitors (Score:1)
Linux games:
Medal of Honor Allied Assault (I haven't played more recent versions)
Doom (all versions, including Doom 3 and it's expansion Resurrection of Evil)
Quake (all versions, including the newest and greatest Quake 4)
Neverwinter Nights (it runs on Linux since about 3 months after the Windows release) (although NWN2 may not run on Linux)
Unreal Tournament
America's Army till version
Re:Need more competitors (Score:2)
Just a little addon to your post I think is interesting, I saw an article today about a linux client for Serious Sam 2 being in development and I thought "That sounds cool, I'd play that!" then realised that Serious Sam 2 is the game that came free with my video card. So basically not only would I not buy a game where I have to boot into Windows to
Re:Need more competitors (Score:2)
To add to that (Score:2)
Doom 3 (natively even)
Battlefield 2
Half Life 2
and with some tweaking, GTA: Vice City, and various others.
Re:Need more competitors (Score:1)
The actual problem of course is that linux is something like 1% of the videocard market, not that there's not enough competition. No company is going to chase after a market that tiny.
Now, why they don't open their APIs so volunteers can write drivers, that's another question entirel
DirectX (Score:1)
I thought the problem with gaming on Linux (and hence the lack of a need for fancy vid cards) was that most games are written to leverage DirectX and M$ doesn't publish DirectX for linux (for obvious reasons).
A brilliant business move by Microsoft... keep your audience chained to your OS via DirectX.
Am I wrong?
Skip the ads. Here's the meat. (Score:5, Informative)
In some areas, the R580-based Radeon X1900GT is faster than the card it is replacing. However, in other, less shader-intense titles like Day of Defeat: Source, the R520-based Radeon X1800XT is the faster of the two. This can be attributed to the architectural differences between R520 and R580.
The natural competitor for the Radeon X1900GT is NVIDIA's GeForce 7900 GT, and across a range of games, it is very much a case of win some, lose some for both companies.
In texture-heavy games, the Radeon X1900GT can sometimes be slower than the GeForce 7800 GT, nevermind the faster GeForce 7900 GT. In newer, shader-intensive games like The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Call of Duty 2, the Radeon X1900GT delivers a very good gaming experience in comparison to the GeForce 7900 GT. This is particularly the case in Oblivion, where the Radeon X1900GT is able to deliver a better gaming experience than XFX's superclocked 7900 GT XXX Edition. In addition, it will be possible to play Oblivion with both HDR and Anti Aliasing enabled if the upcoming Catalyst 6.5 driver includes the 'Chuck' patch. This is something that is currently not an option for NVIDIA owners.
Based on the current price forecasts from people in the know, the deal looks to be a pretty good one. If the Radeon X1900GT is priced at £199, it is undoubtedly a good deal. However, there are GeForce 7900 GT's already selling for that price. The decision will ultimately depend on what games you're currently playing, whether you're planning to overclock or not, and also based on the price points that ATI's partners will manage to hit.
The GeForce 7900 GT is a very good overclocker, while the Radeon X1900GT looks to be a bit of a mixed bag at the moment. If you're looking to overclock, we feel that the GeForce 7900 GT is the better deal if you find one at a good price. However, if you're planning to run your video card at stock speeds the final decision will depend on the games you're looking to play.
Re:Skip the ads. Here's the meat. (Score:1)
Re:Skip the ads. Here's the meat. (Score:2)
Re:Not again! (Score:1)
ATI have caught on.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:ATI have caught on.. (Score:1)
It took all of my skill but it might just do it.
No, sorry
Re:ATI have caught on.. (Score:1, Funny)
Re:ATI have caught on.. (Score:1)
If they just name it the 'Radeon Infinity GTX' then they would have the lead over Nvidia for... well... infinity...
But then Nvidia would just come out with the 'GeForce Black Hole' and either take back the speed crown or destroy the universe...
Re:ATI have caught on.. (Score:1)
KFG
Re:ATI have caught on.. (Score:1)
A new and better graphics card is coming out... (Score:3, Insightful)
And it blows away every other one out there, so do I just wait for the next one or buy???
I never know what to do. I think I'll stick with my Voodoo 3.
Re:A new and better graphics card is coming out... (Score:1)
Re:A new and better graphics card is coming out... (Score:1)
The last video card I bought was an ATI Radeon 9200 SE, 128 MB, came with Half-life 2 for free, and a $40 mail-in rebate.
$99 in-store.
It was an unbelievable deal at the time (right before half-life 2 was supposed to come out), and I have no plans to get anything better for a while, although my dream machine would have two of those SLI cards.
How often do you upgrade? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:1)
I get 70fps at 1024x768 High Quality 2xAA in Doom3 timedemo 1, using stock gpu/memory speeds of 400/980mhz
I get 96fps at 1024x768 High Quality 2xAA in Doom3 timedemo 1, overclocked gpu/memory speeds at 540/1180mhz (over 20% gpu increase)
The card never gets above 62C with the stock fan set to 100%. Eventually I'll get an aftermarket cooler so I can
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:2)
After this, I will simply get the highest end AGP card available at the time (Right now I'm looking at a 7800GT... Hopefully some of the newer cards released this year will be released in AGP format for a while to come) and then t
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:4, Interesting)
Which means that each time I consider upgrading my video, it usually is just cheaper to mothball the machine and buy a new one. I think I replaced a video card once, back in the mid 90s. No, wait...I upgraded once back in 2003 so that I could go from a single monitor to a dual monitor setup. And even then, I had to step back about 3 generations from cutting edge so that the card would still work on my motherboard.
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:1)
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:2)
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:1)
I decided to take this route with my new computer. It's got both AGP and PCI-Express, plus an expansion slot for AMD's AM2 chip. Its implemenation of AGP is true AGP, unlike ECS's AGP that is running off the PCI bus.
I didn't want to buy a new video card to replace my Nvidia 6800, plus I wanted room to grow. I've been happy with it, plus it overclocks nicely provided you use some beta bios to bypass the 274 HTT limit.
Re:How often do you upgrade? (Score:1)
It's called ebay!
Costs me about $100/year to have the smoothest game play (framerates and visual effects).
CPU every 2 to 3 years.
1990 Amiga :)
1993 Trident
1996 Matrox
1997 3fdx Voodoo Rush
1998 Nvidia Riva TNT
2000 Geforce 2
2002 TI4200
2004 9800 Pro stock
2005 6800 GT @ 400/1100
2006 7900 GT @ 650/1760
Hrm (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Hrm (Score:1)
Who fired marketing? (Score:5, Interesting)
Next month... "ATI's Radeon X1900XT has reached end of it's life and the company announced its replacement on June 5th: Radeon 9700486772GTX47RZA21 Rev. A!"
Seriously, can we stop using big numbers to compensate for our tiny penises?
Both Nvidia (GeForce) and ATI (Radeon) are guilty of having hundreds of products with the same name that can only be differentiated by their absurdly esoteric combination of numbers, X's, T's, and words like Pro and Extreme (or Xtreme if they are feeling particularly retarded that day). I hate marketing as much as the next nerd, but get everyone drunk some night after work and come up with a new product name.
Then I won't have to spend a week researching video cards before I buy one. I could spend that week doing better things, like waiting for UPS to deliver my video card.
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:1)
Your analogy fails because cars can be distinguished by their model year... and each model year only has a few (usually easily predictable) models.
Besides, I was mostly just amused by the need to put GTX on the end of some big number in order to make it seem brand new... When was the last time you bought the Ford Mustang X1900GT? Doesn't that sound more like a space plane than a car?
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:1)
It's pretty easy.
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2, Funny)
By that logic... the Radeon 9700 is way better than this new X1900GT...
Yep, so easy... requires no reading at all.
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2)
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sweet, now that I understand the sneaky Roman Numeral system that ATI has going... I can predict even further into the future...
I could upgrade from my vanilla GeForce3, but I'm holding out for the GSpot XXX6900... which will be released right after ATI and Nvidia merge in an orgy of Wall Street investment banking...
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2)
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:1)
Also, you should be doing your research with video cards ANYWAYS.
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2)
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:2)
Re:Who fired marketing? (Score:1, Informative)
While counting megabytes and megahertz is usually a futile exercise I have found that there are a couple things to keep an eye out when comparing video cards.
1. "Pipelines" - Sounds weird, but it seems to be a very reliable metric for determining how one chip compares to another. The more the better, and the more expensi
Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:2)
If I need a video card, I would be happy to settle for a less-expensive good-performing alternative.
Re:Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:2)
Yes, it is, except for the fact that everbody knows this, especially everybody here at slashdot. The only people who but these new cards are hardcore gamers, or someone who has just won the lottery. The only people I can see this comment helping is a couple of teenagers in the US who are thinking about buying a new computer - well done. (And even they are reading at >2!)
Re:Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:2, Informative)
Staying a generation or two behind can save you a ton of money and you won't take too much of a performance hit. In fact, my X850 will outperform the current X1600 pro. Just my two cents anyway.
Re:Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:2)
Re:Save a few hundred bucks. (Score:2)
Scroll Down On Oblivion's Options (Score:2)
NVIIDA? (Score:2)
I've been an ATI-man for a long time, but right now I'd choose an NVIDIA card.
Re:What a lame review methodology (Score:1)
Why? Because We Like You... (Score:3, Insightful)
I suppose if my entire life revolved around the PC, and games were my main form of entertainment (besides shooting the neighbors dog with a pellet gun for crapping on my lawn), then I guess 300-700 dollars for a video card would be great.
I got a Nvidia 6800OC from Woot for 59 bucks...plays all todays games great. Sure...not at 100000x6800000 resolution, or on the side of a skyscraper, but good enough to whip some 12 year old punks ass on your local WAN server. So what if I miss a couple of particles. My lazy eyes can't even dicipher them.
But if it's your bag, then go for it. Just be ready for the next card from Nvidia in the next 10 minutes.
Re:Why? Because We Like You... (Score:2)
Yeah, that would be a really weird aspect ratio man.
Re:Why? Because We Like You... (Score:1)