Making the Most of IT support? 107
wetfeetl33t asks: "On Slashdot, we've seen quite a few stories about employees who are unhappy with their company's IT department, or are seeking advice on how they can whip their company's IT department into shape. So, enough of the complaints about the supposed stupidity of technicians, the incompetence of sysadmins, or the excessive network down time. A better question is: how can users work peacefully and effectively with their IT department and make the interaction between the IT people and other employees as productive as possible?"
Isn't it obvious? (Score:5, Insightful)
Treat the people with some respect. Not only is it the right thing to do, but they'll probably fall over from you even doing it. Most IT people I know get treated like crap, and they don't deserve that.
Nobody does.
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
If people stopped doing that IT people would have more time to take care of the overall system.
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:4, Insightful)
most people are fine and i am luck to have a direct manager that understands and will shift work so that i don't go crazy.. but 12-15 hours days for me is not uncommon.. hell it is midnight and i just got home a alittile while ago.
best thing i can say is that if you want to have a good an fair IT department (even if it is just you) have some type of job queueing in place and use it.. it will make your life so much better
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:3, Insightful)
When the "enter password" prompt came up, I looked at the secretary and s
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Owwww, Ouch! I know what you mean, since during part of my "network engineer" stint at said company I filled in on the computer department help desk. Ever read http://www.userfriendly.org/ [userfriendly.org] ? Mike the network engineer and Greg the helpdesk guy. Been there, done that!
Imagine being on the help desk at NASA, and getting a call from the Executive Office of the President because they aren't getting their email. That was an interesting time!
Bob-
Sentence does not parse (Score:1)
The company somehow discovered that I had more pressing work to sit on my butt in another building doing nothing until it was time for the next round of layoffs.
mean?
Re:Sentence does not parse (Score:2)
The company somehow discovered that I had more pressing work to sit on my butt in another building doing nothing until it was time for the next round of layoffs.
mean?"
It means that I was quickly transferred away from the main corporate office to a satellite office, where there was effectively nothing for me to do, until they could invent an excuse to fire me since they had no cause.
That's what happens when a Power Secretary takes a disliking to you. At least I got some severance t
Re:Sentence does not parse (Score:2)
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, as a person who has had absolutely NO customer service training of any kind yet deals daily with potentially-irate customers, I'm going to say this :
If that's anything close to what you actually said, you handled that very very badly.
From her point of view, you wandered in, fiddled a bit, then jumpe
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:1)
But if she's a power secretary and not the CEO, then she's not really competing in "a man's world", is she? She's competeting in what is traditionally a woman's world.
There's really no call for such bitch-queen behaviour anymore - if they really want power, why don't they get it for themselves instead of riding on somebody's coattails?
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Indeed there are substantial differences between male/female. Some of the loudest yelling at me has been to question my process over and over when the outcome was not what the woman wanted, when I'd already agreed that what I did had not worked.
"What part of "a
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:1)
Of course there
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:5, Funny)
IT Guy: No, I expect them to DIE!
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2, Informative)
It all comes down to your support levels, a sys-admin shouldn't be handling 1st level support calls, he/she needs to be doing what they do best. Likewise a 1st level support person shouldn't be trying to debug a large network issue, they shou
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
After about the third (and third different issue) time i did this, he replied that he was my boss' boss and I had to stop everything and fix it right. I replied untill you sign my check, i'm not sure i can go around my instructions. It turned out that this guy actualt did sign the checks, he w
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Most IT people are full of shit and do deserve it.
Seriously, when confronted with some problem that they don't know the solution for, the first instinct of the vast majority of "Computer Guys" is to start lying their asses off by spewing psuedo-technical bullshit. They do this even when they know you know they're full of it
Typical conversation with IT:
Me: Problem
IT: Must be the poliarity on the flux capacitors, don't know what we can d
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
If they are a real engineer or have a lot of experience in problem solving it may be real technical bullshit on the way to finding a solution that is more plausible - even if it appears to be way outside of the feild (eg. apparent software errors due to overheating hardware). If you expect an ins
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
I do this at my support job, and the users love me. Even if thier machine is hosed and needs replaces and the new one will take three days to arrive, they are happy because I put effort into it, did my best to fix it, and kept them apprised of the situation in terms they could understand.
Too many IT people got called up by New Horizons, got a paper MCSE with no real experie
Mobile phone call center operators also do this (Score:1)
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:1)
Your list should also probibly have 'was honest and truthful to them'. You cover that anyway, but it's good to say. Tell them when you dont know, but you can find out
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Maybe a more realworld example is in order:
Me: Sometimes it takes about 10 minutes to logon to my machine. Could there be a ActiveDirectory issue?
Good IT answer 1: Hmm, I'll look at the Domain Controller tonight
Good IT answer 2: Let me check Technet and do some research
Good IT answer 3: I'll call the AD expert
Actual IT answer: It's probably because you installed Yahoo (runs off)
See the problem here? And even if t
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:2)
Unfortunately it is when the support system is broken and you want the problem fixed. The tricky thing is to express the problem to the person in such a way that they will escalate it to someone that has a clue on how to fix the problem. It also may be worth trying the old fashioned approach of having something in writing or email instead of grabbing the ear of the IT guy as he runs
Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:1)
Light vs Dark side of IT (Score:1)
Which, granted I've done my fair share of, but it's still not something I do on a regular basis and I realize that it is a bad thing.
SLA? (Score:2)
Honestly, while it's easy to say each side should try to understand and respect each other's work and schedule, there is always going to be inter-departmental conflicts.
So maybe a well-drafted SLA?
Great question (Score:5, Funny)
The networks seem to be okay, and I have all my files, so it's not like they have anything better to do. Maybe they'd rather be surfing Slashdot. I don't know. But I'd rather they lost some weight and became more pleasing to look at. All the running around is helping their looks.
Maybe we should also install a shower...
Re:Great question (Score:4, Funny)
Nick Burns, your company's computer guy! (Score:1)
Computers aren't coffee makers (Score:5, Insightful)
When Fred Copyguy calls the Xero/Canon tech because he jammed the double-sided collated stapler function again, his company is paying for either a hefty contract or a site visit. If Fred does this too often, he is dealt with.
When Phil McCracken gets sued for sexual harassment, he makes an appointment to see counsel, and waits while the case is dragged through depositions and hearings.
Unfortunately, when these same nitwits call IT because they installed the latest Free Poker game
Corporate-think needs to perceive the computing infrasructure,including the personnel, as an expensive, specialized tool. If you want me to replace this [machine, router, 1st-level support tech] like a $10 pencil sharpener, then always keep a dozen spares around and ready, or give me an expense account so I can just run down to CompUSA and buy 6 or 8 on any given day. OTOH, if you want me to save that $80,000+ in dusty equipment and redundant training then treat the entire system with the respect and care just like you do the building / campus / Corporate Counsel office.
Re:Computers aren't coffee makers (Score:1, Insightful)
There's a few issues to consider.
First, I agree that generally the IT guys are treated like crap. We really are expected to just wave our hand over the monitor and everything magically works. However, this is NOT expected of most other types of equipment. If you call in a copier tech to fix your copier, most people will let them do their job and not harass them. Why then are the IT guys picked
Re:Computers aren't coffee makers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Computers aren't coffee makers (Score:1)
1- That we do a hell of a lot more things than he thought we did (as in, do more than just support the simulation operators).
2- That he sincerely hoped he didn't treat us the way he has noticed everyone else seems to treat us.
Re:Computers aren't coffee makers (Score:1)
Clueless users? If you fix the problem, as long as your body language and tone of voice are non-threatening, they will realize how dumb it was and not get defensive, and just thank you. If they think you are annoyed, or condescending... that is when they get defensive.
Re:Story: (Score:2)
Plan ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
The stereotype of a "Grumpy Sysadmin" probably comes from the fact that one minute we're deeply involved with a technical project performing mental gymnastics and the next minute someone is standing at our desk, demanding attention. Now. It is very difficult to return back to that project or remember where we were.
System Administraton is different then other jobs in the business. We typically deal with a very high level of interruption & multitasking-- and probably more then anyone else in the company. It's not unusual for me to have 12 hour workdays where absolutely NONE of the tasks were on my todo list when I walked in that morning-- a day and a half FULL of interruptions.
Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:1, Interesting)
Your job is to make sure the backbone systems of the company are running well enough. This absolutely necessary, and anyone who would argue otherwise is seeking to eliminate your job. Stated another way, your job is to make sure everyone else can do their job effectively.
That said, it also means that if something is working well enough and the users are
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:1)
First, the whole if the backbone is functioning thing... It's NOT a binary thing. There are cases often where most things are working but others may not be. It's not an all or nothing thing.
Also, to say that if the system is functioning that any upgrades or other tinkering is just "egotistical masturbation" is retarded. If you don't want your IT staff to do any upgrading or preventative tasks until something fais, then you're a complete moron. There's a lot of up
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:1)
Such as?
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:2, Interesting)
Try it. Ask through the proper channels if you can have Firefox on your PC at work (for instance). You will be told "no, that would be too much extra work for our technicians; we need to have everything be the same on all the machines." They said this because if they tell you yes this one time, it will "set a precedent" that could cause the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. They install Firefox for you, now they h
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:2)
Only if you assume the company is completely and utterly static, with no plans for this to change.
Most companies I know of (and have worked for) are interested in expansion and growth - at the very least in profits and productivity, if not size and marketshare. I've never seen any that have n
Mm.. Juicy discussion (Score:2, Insightful)
I take your point that IT departments ought to be split between user support and infrastructure support. However, I take exception with the idea that any company with only a couple IT staff is "too small to be of consequence". With the vast majority of companies being too small to be of consequence, doesn't that make them consequential?
What I'm getting at is that an overworked IT staffer in MicroBiz is no more replaceable than one in Meg
Re:Mm.. Juicy discussion (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have *two* IT staff, then you have sufficient for one to be doing basic user support and another to be working along more strategic lines (and, IME, this is the kind
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:3, Insightful)
They are hired to keep everything up and running, implement new systems and plan ahead. Often because they are competent they also get to do other things like format and excel spreadsheet. Which then turns into "create a summary page, automate the process and draw conclusions". If I'm doing that the
It's still the company's PC (Score:2)
It also comes down to work for the company and work for individuals private hobbies. People do not need to call me while I am driving to try to talk me into acquiring a pirate copy of WinXP and should not be offended if I breifly say no and hang up on them. It's interesting to hear about the latest tech gadget/camera whatever for a hobby and answer questions about related technology but not on work time with deadlin
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:1)
Lucky for you that your company is able to implement such a simple solution: Turn off all the computers and get rid of IT! The expenses disappear and profits go up.
If someone else in the company can't use their computer because of some IT-administrative issue (lost password, etc) then the company is losing money because they can't make any money with the computer in an unusable state.
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:1)
So you collectively bust your arses to create a fully redundant, fault tolerant system which has near 100% uptime (ok it's hypothetical) then management look at IT and ask, why are we paying all this money for all these IT guys when the systems just work anyway?
The bigest problem with our role (I count myself among the accursed sysadmins) is that if we do a good job, nobody notices, so they think we are an u
Re:Let's be absolutely clear about this (Score:2)
I disagree. IT produces the things that allow the company to say "99.9% uptime" "data retention for 1 year" "Serve webpages faster then our competitors", "protect the business from crackers, speed up the development process while maintaining uptime, data integrity, speed & security-- these things are core to the business, and make the difference between success and losing all of your cl
The 15 Minute Cisco Interview (Score:1)
c0d3r
Heh. (Score:2, Funny)
I guess they're looking for over-clocked engineers.
Re:Heh. (Score:2)
Re:Heh. (Score:2)
Re:Heh. (Score:1)
Follow two principles (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You get what you pay for
This is a far-reaching statement. The first aspect is salary. Companies (well, universities) are always trying to get by with meager salaries that are NOT competitive at all (let alone poor to non-existent raises, benefits, etc.). In my opinion, it is better to pay one really competitive salary than two or three shitty ones. That one person is going to be so much more valuable than three scrubs; more experience, better attitude, maybe actually be happy with their job and stay for a while. Sure, you can get good people for cheap on occasion, but they are going to be miserable because they know how badly you're screwing them. That demotivates otherwise good employees, leading to decline in work performance as well as leaving for greener pastures.
In a field like systems administration, there is a really big emphasis on personal initiative. You have to proactively go looking for problems before they become problems, come up with bizarre-ass ways to fix things immediately or within the confines of your budget (usually small or zero), man-power, etc. If you're seriously unhappy with your job, it drains your initiative. I have personally experienced this. I want to do a good job, and I take pride in my work, but since I know that I'm being treated like shit (in ways other than pay too), I have a harder time caring as much as I would like to about my work. Thats just the way people operate; if you want the best out of your employees, you have to recognize that.
Stemming from this: you need to fire worthless people. The inability or unwillingness to fire worthless employees is one of the biggest problems for employers that I see. If a sysadmin is always causing more work just by his attitude and ineptitude, then they need to get the boot. If you don't do that, all of his co-workers who aren't fuckups are going to see that you don't care about the quality of their work. Another demotivator.
Also pertaining to this: you are paying these people to administer your computers. NOT to move furniture. NOT to hang pictures on the walls. NOT to do anything with anything that doesn't plug into the wall and beep when it turns on. Its one thing to do a favor for someone, its another to turn into a moving man when you ought to be doing a highly skilled job for your salary.
Aside from salaries, you need to pay for equipment. IT costs money, computers cost money, software costs money. Just because computers are $800 instead of $5000 now doesn't mean that they're free. IT departments need budgets, they need control over those budgets, and they need to be set at reasonable levels. There is a lot of waste here, from sending people to training seminars and paying for support contracts that you don't really need (or use). That isn't what we need. We need money for hardware. If you have to cobble things together, or use a production server to test out things, you're going to run into trouble sooner or later. A lot of the time out-dated, overly heterogenous or inadequate hardware is one of the biggest contributors to an overburdened IT staff. Getting rid of all those 400MHz PCs running Windows ME (when the rest of the place is using XP) is a huge help, more than worth that $800 you need to shell out.
Number two is: Let the experts handle it.
I have worked in a few places where computer decisions were made by someone with no technical knowledge, often based on the latest buzzwords or something someone told them or who knows what. Professors who need 24" LCDs because it will make their computers faster (false), people who think they need a LaserJet 1300 because its a higher number than 1200 (the difference is so minimal as to be a complete waste of time and money). On a larger scale, the complete decision making process of the computer infrastructure may be entirely out of th
Re:Follow two principles (Score:1)
Oh, except that the pay stayed the same.
I came in every day and worked my ass off, and nothing came of it after three months. So I started looking for another job, found it, and left them totally in the lurch.
Turns out that next job was als
Re:Follow two principles (Score:2)
Companies that have poor IT (and more generally, HR) setups are not going to change. It would be nice if you could make them, but in my experience its about as effective as a girlfriend who thinks she's going to change all of the things she doesn't like about her boyfriend (to coin a stereotype). Superficially you may see things moving in the direction you want, but ultim
MOD PARENT UP (Score:1)
Re:Follow two principles (Score:1, Funny)
(I normally don't post as AC, but after reading this, you'll understand)
We h
Re:Follow two principles (Score:2)
One thing you've illustrated is that having a degree and certifications does not make you qualified. Particularly certifications in my book; I have never personally met someone who had any and was actually worth something. To me its actually a bad thing wh
My example (Score:2)
I will forever keep and cherish the emails that were posted to our in-house mailing list for techs a while back. The list is for people who actually do the work of making all our tools function. The people who actually spend billions on those tools aren't even aware it exists and would be
Re:Follow two principles (Score:1)
Thank you.
Re:Follow two principles (Score:2)
Re:Follow two principles (Score:2)
Basically it all boils down to managing your people correctly, something which is sorely lacking in a lot of fields but is particularly problematic in IT. Many people who are worth so
The Blame Game (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:The Blame Game (Score:1)
Re:The Blame Game (Score:1)
Re:The Blame Game (Score:3, Insightful)
I usually work for smaller shops with a Windows SBS Server and 10-20 Computers.
Users usually feel intimitated if you ask them what they did, before it stopped working. You need to tell them that you're not blaming them in any way, and just want to find out what might have caused the problem, and that nobody will ever hear what they tell you. You need to sound calm and professional when you talk to a customer.
Re:The Blame Game (Score:2)
I'll throw a caveat on there... never get mad at the person where they can see/sense it... Vent it out later...
Personally... I've found having a somewhat irreverant attitude when asking them helps as well... I'm pretty sure that whenever anyone at my workplace calls me, they know the first question asked will be, "Alright, what did you break this time?" said with a smile... The few who seemed upset by this, started laughing as well once I explained that no one ever calls us just to say hello, or ask how w
Distributed responsibility (Score:1)
All support requests, support time, delays, reasons, problems etc are logged. This would be useful in individual and team evaluations. In case of crisis - worm attack, largescale HW/SW movement, members would be exchanged among teams.
Re:Tell them to THINK (Score:3, Informative)
A few days ago I received a laptop from the IT department for a business trip the day after. I told them to install some software on it. Net result was that I received a laptop with the software I requested - but without a login, and the software wasn't activated.
If the IT department thinks along with you those things shouldn't happen.
A very big question I would ask in this scenario is this: Who put it off to the last minute, and why? There may be a very good answer to this, but one thing that is
e-je-ka-shun - n. (Score:4, Insightful)
In my experiences, users who don't know crap about IT consistently generate the kinds of user problems noted here, and IT people who don't bother to learn anything about the concerns of their users (and who tend to be like Nick Barnes) create the rest of the problems.
It takes time and effort to understand the other guy, and lots of people are unwilling to do it. Senior management has to set the example, which they often don't (though they like to give it lip service).
Get a Service Level Agreement... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Get a Service Level Agreement... (Score:1)
This isn't necessarily a bad idea. When I worked for the Fortune 100 company's IT department, we had a pretty clear cut idea of when things were to be done, and how to log them into the ticket tracking system. We didn't have a formal SLA, but we had a pretty good grasp on what would be in it if we did.
I will say that from experience, when I worked at a small shop with no set goals, plans, or procedures, I got a lot less work done because I had to constantly define the problem and the level of severity from
Re:Get a Service Level Agreement... (Score:2)
Re:Get a Service Level Agreement... (Score:1)
If it externally supplied by IBM... (Score:1)
Wow where to begin (Score:3)
But most importantly, it is nice to be able to vent to people who have gone through this (and much much worse)
Next week we talk about how we can never take a vacation (and yes, I have accumulated so much leave I am maxed out).
Re:Wow where to begin (Score:1)
many, many, companies are too stupid to believe information that they're not overpaying for. i've been in this situation many times before and it is almost always a good thing to have the consultant come in and confirm every recommendation you've ever made.
being an enthusiastic supporter of the consultant will help you retain some control over the process (including being part of
Re:Wow where to begin (Score:2)
Re:Wow where to begin (Score:2)
Use common sense! (Score:2)
1. We're providing you with a computer to work on. It's not a toy, or your own personal PC. If users didn't go installing every application they felt like [1] probably 25% of support calls would go away. Besides the obvious malware, IE toolbars [2] cause many of our applications to become unstable.
2. Waiting until the last minute. The IT dept can't resolve all issues immediately -- even if that means a new hire sits without a computer because it never got orde
We need those CDs and honest answers (Score:2)
1. Keep all CDs and license codes in the same place. The cost of me looking for them gets high very quickly.
2. If we give you a command line to type in, please type in all the spaces and correct slashes. The amount of people who can't tell the difference between a forward slash and a backslash is staggering.
3. Keep screenshots of those errors you are receiving. Hit PrtScr, open a new Word document, and hit Ctrl-V to save the evidence.
4. When we ask question
Oh let me count the ways.. (Score:1)
Whip them into shape? (Score:2)
Re:Whip them into shape? (Score:1)
How? (Score:4, Informative)
Simple.
STFU.
RTFM.
I don't care who you are... be ready to work... (Score:1)
I can't tell you how many times I have had to sit through a minute of "Hi, this is Joe Blow, Manager of widget development for the south-western european region. I'm in the middle of a very important project that
Or... "Hi, this is Joe with the Baltimore Warehouse."
"OK, Joe, what's your last name?"
"I'm having problems with my microsoft."
"Joe, what's your last name?"
"It won't start."
"WHAT IS YOUR LAST NAME?!?!"
"Wh
Who can help who? (Score:1)
There are a few of us around
I spend most of my days actually doing basic document checking/data entry/acceptance type work for a governement department (in Australia) but my colleagues know that if they strike a problem, they
Bill back IT's hours to the other departments (Score:1)