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US Releasing 9/11 Flight 77 Pentagon Crash Tape

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the need-faster-video-editing-staff dept.

1098

Robotron23 writes "The BBC is reporting that the US government has decided to release the videotape depicting the crash of Flight 77 into the Pentagon building, nearly five years after the 9/11 attacks. The government had previously withheld the tape due to 'ongoing investigations' into al-Qaeda's Zacarias Moussaoui. A government representative commented that they 'hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories.'"

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1098 comments

You can't stop the paranoia. (5, Insightful)

Kelson (129150) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344870)

You can't put the conspiracy theories to rest. They already believe you're covering something up, so if you release a report that shows...

  • No reliable evidence of alien spacecraft has been found, ever.
  • The Cydonia [badastronomy.com] region on Mars (the "face") appears to be a natural formation, and not ruins of an ancient Martian civilization.
  • We really did land astronauts on the moon.
  • An airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, not a missile.

...the conspiracy theorists will just claim you've fabricated or altered the "new" evidence.

Speaking of which... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15344935)

Speaking of TripMaster Monkey, I'm sure that we'll see his conspiracy theory and his regurgitated links to his fellow conspiracy theorists any minute now. Time to get ready to clean our keyboards from what is about to be spewed on this thread.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (4, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344954)

Paranoia is self-perpetuating.

Any rational explanation is simply "ignoring the facts" and any evidence that counters is faked.

I bet the Fark article on this is full of references to thermite, missiles, and crazy conspiracy theories all over again.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344975)

I bet the Fark article on this is full of references to thermite, missiles, and crazy conspiracy theories all over again.
One of the first comments: "OMG Thermite Thermite Thermite!!" [fark.com]

damn you, Scuttlemonkey!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345317)

Dupe! [slashdot.org]

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (0, Redundant)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344995)

Dictionary.com says [reference.com] that a conspiracy is "An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act."

Do you believe that the planes flew into the towers and the pentagon by accident? If not, you believe in a conspiracy.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (2, Interesting)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345034)

Obviously it was a conspiracy moron.. The issue is was it Al-Quadas conspiracy or the US governments.. OR both..

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345046)

Don't be a dumbass.

When someone claims these conspiracies, it goes without saying "Gov't Conspiracy"...the wackos don't really care about a conspiracy of ordinary law breakers.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (2, Interesting)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345257)

Yes, but the point is, plane or missile, something *did* hit the Pentagon, and the government was involved if only by accident by not shooting down planes that failed to transmit transponder codes or follow orders.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345002)

> You can't put the conspiracy theories to rest.

Correct.

Seeing as how these are the same frames that got released a year or two ago, except that today they have the stamp "official" on 'em, the tinfoil crowd's gonna be going nuts today.

So let's recap the ground rules as written by Pynchon:

Proverbs for Paranoids:
1. You may never get to touch the Master, but you can tickle his creatures.
2. The innocence of the creatures is in inverse proportion to the immorality of the Master.
3. If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
4. You hide, they seek.
5. Paranoids are not paranoid because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves, fucking idiots, deliberately into paranoid situations.

Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

"Is it a plane or a missile" that hit the Pentagon? Did "pull it" in the context of WTC7 mean "destroy the building" or "pull the firemen out for their own safety?" Is that fiery stuff "molten iron" or just melted bits of plastic dripping out of WTC1 and 2?

Anyone seriously asking any of those questions needs to have Proverb #3 pounded into their forehead with a rubber stamp mounted to the nose of 767 until they achieve illumination.

Ditto for Proverb #5. But that's just what they'd expect me to say, because I'm obviously part of the conspiracy fnord too. :)

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (2, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345106)

Why did you put a large extra space in between "conspiracy" and "too" in the last sentence?

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (2, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345328)

Dude, everyone can tell you're faking. The conditioning not only hides the fnords, but also the space that is left behind when you can't see them.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (1)

spun (1352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345445)

Fnord! My cover's blown!

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345017)

Well, they have had five years to fabricate this one. And it never made sense why they would have withheld public inspection of these records prior to this date (the we-want-to-have-an-unfair-advantage-in-a-court-cas e excuse does not ring true). As I understand, the video quality is incredibly poor of what they are releasing and claiming is all of the video evidence they have gathered.

The question then becomes: This is what they had to hold back? Heavens.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (5, Funny)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345151)

Yeah. Bush being eeeevil, has dedicated the last four and a bit CPU-years of the Pentagon's secret beowulf cluster of Crays to rendering the snazziest pseudo-real computer graphics since that Final Fantasy movie they made so much fuss over a few years back. All in order to cover up the huge Texaco oil truck backing up to the wall, a guy in a ten-gallon hat getting out, unreeling and lighting a fuse, and scarpering in an unmarked black helicopter full of G-men.

I'm not paranoid! I'm not paranoid! I'm not parano (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345213)

Bah! You're obviously part of the conpiracy!

The official story is a conspiracy theory. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345349)

I hope you realize that the story about 20 or so Arab men conspiring to hijack planes and fly them into various landmarks is a conspiracy theory, as well.

Many people who rant on and on about 'conspiracy theorists' follow beliefs that are just as questionable. Their position may be supported by certain governments or the mass media in various nations. But on the basis of evidence alone, their stance is often far weaker than that of even the so-called 'conspiracy theorists'.

Talk negatively about conspiracy theories all you want. Just realize that the story you hold dear is just that: a conspiracy theory.

Re:The official story is a conspiracy theory. (4, Insightful)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345408)

I hope you realize that the story about 20 or so Arab men conspiring to hijack planes and fly them into various landmarks is a conspiracy theory, as well.

Excellent point AC. Most Conspiracy Theories can be dismissed easily because there probably wasn't even a consipracy to begin with. But 911 *was* a conspiracy, so by defintion any explaination is a conspiracy theory.

Note that even the official theory has all sort of bizarre aspects (James Bond-style mastermind villian in his secret underground bunker, for example).

Re:The official story is a conspiracy theory. (2, Insightful)

honkycat (249849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345537)

Yeah, but there's a big difference between a conspiracy between religious extremists to hijack planes and crash them into the buildings of their enemy and a conspiracy of a government to arrange for an attack on its own people. The latter is what people mean when they talk about a conspiracy in this context. The former, yeah, it's technically and legally a conspiracy, but it's not the kind of thing that you can protect against with tin foil.

Re:You can't stop the paranoia. (2, Interesting)

kanzels (975208) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345390)

I agree ... but still I'm curious what did hit Pentagon :(

Probably not (4, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344876)

A government representative commented that they 'hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories.'

The problem is that there is not a clear view of a 747 running into the pentagon. Just a streak and a fireball. Kinda like those UFO pictures and videos.

What is that saying? "I want to believe", right?

Re:Probably not (3, Insightful)

pcgamez (40751) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345028)

"A government representative commented that they 'hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories.'"

It doesn't matter. The government can't win. There are two possible scenerios for releasing the tape:

1) They release it immediately after the attack. People claim that there is no way they could release the tape that quick so it must have been fabricated beforehand.

2) They release it well after the attack. People claim they had enough time to fabricate the tape.

It's a no-win situation.

Re:Probably not (1)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345491)

True, the original "lower quality" version of this tape was released in early 2002. Infact, according to this BBC article [bbc.co.uk] , the French had claimed the video a fraud by April 2002. The book regarding the incident was a best seller over there.

Re:Probably not (5, Funny)

DaHat (247651) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345037)

Any evidence of a 747 hitting the pentagon would be quite a surprise and likely fake given that Flight 77 was a 757.

Re:Probably not (2, Insightful)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345093)

The problem is that there is not a clear view of a 747 running into the pentagon. Just a streak and a fireball. Kinda like those UFO pictures and videos.

Well, yes, that's a problem for people that only believe what they see on what they presume to be un-alterable video tape... but why not just ask the people that watched it happen [awitness.org] .

Satellite? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345392)

The problem is that there is not a clear view of a 747 running into the pentagon. Just a streak and a fireball. Kinda like those UFO pictures and videos.

By that time they knew which planes were hijacked, right?, even if the destinations were unknown? Do we have reason to believe they didn't train a satellite on each of them?

Anybody know how much work it is to do the above? Any prior public evidence of tracking a flying object from orbit? I expect it's somewhere between 'impossible' and 'just like on 24'.

Re:Probably not (4, Insightful)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345541)

It all depends on what conspiracy theories he was referring to.

I think he meant it would put to rest all those crazy theories that have recently surfaced that the government is engaging in illegal domestic spying.

The timing of the tape release couldn't be more perfect, as a reminder to the populace for the reason why their civil liberties are being curtailed. Hopefully this will re-scare enough people to get Bush's approval rating moving in the other direction.

Well thats nice (0, Troll)

daddyrief (910385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344877)

I'm glad they released it promptly. I don't doubt the integrity of the tape at all. (rolls eyes.)

Re:Well thats nice (3, Insightful)

955301 (209856) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344934)


They did release it immediately. The Moussaoui trial just ended. It's common that the government and companies do not discuss details relating to a trial while it's in progress.

The fact is, the integrity of the tape will be questioned more because of what it is and who it's from than how long it took to release it. There would still be skeptics if it was released immediately

Re:Well thats nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345003)

There would still be skeptics if it was released immediately

That's a good point... if you're going to release a faked tape of a faked attack, there's no particular reason not to prepare the fake tape well in advance for a day-and-date worldwide release on VHS and DVD. :-P

Re:Well thats nice (1)

daddyrief (910385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345080)

Wow. The tape is actually just as bad, if not worse quality than the first.

And you really should check out some of the evidence against the Pentagon attack, hell, while you're at it check out some other evidence: Loose Change. [google.com]

The fact is, there are other cameras that recorded the crash, the tapes were confiscated right after the event occurred.
This video does not satisfy me.

Re:Well thats nice (2, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345194)

While I'm of the opinion that just because little of it can be seen doesn't imply that it must not have happened, I must still say that it's strange that this particular building isn't under better surveillance that they can barely catch an entire plane flying into it clearly.

Re:Well thats nice (1)

rizzo420 (136707) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345284)

prove that the 9/11 attacks were planned by the government... please. i'm sick of hearing all this crap about how the government is covering up some big plan they had that would allow them to enact martial law. i have yet to see any sort of concrete evidence or proof or even reason that they would do this without having anyone come out beforehand...

i'm not saying i trust the government 100%, but i trust conspiracy theorists, like yourself, about 1%. guess who wins my trust? the burden of proof is in your hands, not the government. they've given enough proof and reason that this was caused by terrorists.

Re:Well thats nice (1)

daddyrief (910385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345437)

You obviously didn't bother to click the link I posted.

Re:Well thats nice (1)

Nossie (753694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345478)

you prove to me that streak of white was a plane.... and I'll admit to being wrong...

seriously ! if that was a 757 I'm sure there would be enough evidence ALL OVER THE PLACE for people to see such....

but its not....

so its still FUD from the government

Re:Well thats nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345536)

"They did release it immediately. The Moussaoui trial just ended. It's common that the government and companies do not discuss details relating to a trial while it's in progress."

Well, if that's true, I guess that clinches what everyone has assumed so far: key people who were architects of the 9/11 attacks, and who are in the custody of the U.S. "somewhere" (such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed [wikipedia.org] ) are never going to be put on trial.

I can't believe they put Moussaoui on trial, but not people who, it is claimed in the 9/11 report, were *much* more deeply involved. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was caught in 2003.

Watch **** Space (1)

nbannerman (974715) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344940)

When confidential reports are released in this manner, sections are often blanked out. Will the same thing happen here? This isn't a troll; we've seen this happen before and it isn't as if the technology doesn't exist to make it happen.

"This Frame Blanked In The Interests Of National Security" and a black frame?

Re:Watch **** Space (1)

amliebsch (724858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345022)

There's not likely to be anything confidential shown in the tapes. It's not like we don't know what the outside of the Pentagon looks like.

Re:Watch **** Space (2, Funny)

sidfaiwu (901221) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345109)

It's shaped just like a robot's anus.

Re:Watch **** Space (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345039)

When confidential reports are released in this manner, sections are often blanked out. Will the same thing happen here?
No. You could have watched the video [cnn.com] and seen this for yourself (although you can't even see the plane; the frames are just "normal, normal, normal, huge fireball.")

Re:Watch **** Space (1)

nbannerman (974715) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345131)

My mistake; I thought this was new footage that hadn't already been made available. Cheers :)

Fox News Has It (2, Insightful)

Trip Ericson (864747) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344949)

It's on Fox News's site, front page.

It doesn't show us anything new. It answers no questions. The frame rate of the camera was too low to catch the plane/missile/emu (take your pick) as it came in.

What would have been good would be a release of the other video tapes that were seized on 9/11. Even if their quality wasn't that good, I'd imagine at least ONE should have something vaguely resembling a plane in it.

Re:Fox News Has It (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15344989)

Odd that the idiot conspiracy theorists have yet propose a solutuion to the following:

1) where is American flight 77?
2) where are all the people that were on board flight 77?
3) why are the family members of all the people on board flight 77 not concerned that a plane is missing.

Re:Fox News Has It (1)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345060)


1) where is American flight 77?
Aliens stopped time, loaded the entire plane into a super-mothership, left Earth orbit and restarted time. Then they blew up the Pentagon.

2) where are all the people that were on board flight 77?
In the aliens' space ship, stupid!

3) why are the family members of all the people on board flight 77 not concerned that a plane is missing.
The explosives used to blow up the Pentagon were loaded with material in quantities similar to what the plane was made from. You all think it was in pieces in and around the Pentagon.

Who's the crazy one?!

Re:Fox News Has It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345094)

Ok seriously, if the government was going to go through all the trouble to blow up the WTC, why would they have a problem with making a plane disappear? If those are the best objections you can come up with, then you're in trouble. I can come up with dozens of possible scenarios (not that they're likely scenarios, but to a conspiracy theorist I don't think that matters much)

Re:Fox News Has It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345362)

And all the people associated with the people on the plane?

and the ground crew that worked the planes, the ticket people that borded the plane, the radar data showing the plane,

ALL of it faked? And the only /real/ possible answer is that it was a missle?

You, sir/madam/thing/ are an absolute idiot. Pure, unadulterated, (what an amazing pun) idiot.

Re:Fox News Has It (1)

mozkill (58658) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345489)

yes, exactly. there are many many conspiracy theories concerning our government and the public has yet to expose one of them. Our government therefore has a 100% success rate with tricking the public. Only God himself could do such perfect work.

It certainly does tell something (2, Informative)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345400)

I saw it on Fox News today and something I noticed should dampen the missile theorists. The low framerate prevented the smoking gun shot of an airplane everyone was hoping to see, however the explosion is key. There was a big red fireball with thick black smoke when it hit the building. This is evident of a fuel explosion, not a missile explosion. Dispite how movies portray ordinances exploding in big puffy fireballs, they're actually like big "bangs". They don't create much smoke, instead just blow dust and material everywhere.

Look at the tapes of the plane hitting the second WTC tower and see how similar the explosions are. Just because there is no hole where the engines should be does not mean a plane didn't hit the building. The building is like a fortrace and could withstand most of the impact of the aluminum plane. This explosion looks like a large amount of fuel exploded, not a missile or bomb.

I saw the recording and... (4, Insightful)

jasonmicron (807603) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344968)

It is a complete waste. It's like a George Lucas remake of the original camera that we have already seen over the last 4 1/2 years. And by "George Lucas" remake I mean it is 99% original material, but from new angles!

No plane can be seen and all you really see is a flash of light then an explosion.

I'm not one of those whack-job conspiracy theorists but for Judicial Watch to make claims of, "this will end all conspiracy theories" and then go on to release this load of steaming dog poo is poor judgement and will only continue to be fodder for the tin foil hatters the world over.

Re:I saw the recording and... (2, Funny)

Hitokiri (220183) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345298)

But at least we now know that the Pentagon did in fact shoot first.

Absurd (4, Insightful)

Poppler (822173) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344970)

the US government has decided to release the videotape depicting the crash of Flight 77 into the Pentagon building, nearly five years after the 9/11 attacks

We should have had this on day 1. How did keeping this under wraps help the Moussaoui trial?
This kind of secretive attitude creates an environment where conspiracy theories flourish. If the Government wants to disprove these theories, they should release as much information as they safely can, instead of fighting tooth and nail to keep everything secret.

Re:Absurd (5, Insightful)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345087)

If the Government wants to disprove these theories
Regarding conspiracy theories, I believe the burden is on the conspiracy theorists to prove their theories, not for the targeted group to disprove all conspiracies directed towards them. If I say "George Bush is an alien," should he undergo a medical examination specifically to prove that he is human, or should I offer undeniable proof of his extra-terrestriality?

Re:Absurd (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345165)

But certainly if Bush states "No comment" on question whether he's an alien or not doesn't help the case.

Besides, Michael Jackson IS a zombie.

Re:Absurd (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345204)

But certainly if Bush states "No comment" on question whether he's an alien or not doesn't help the case.
Has the government publicly declared "No comment" when asked if they orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, or have they declined to comment at all based on the absurdity of the claim? Big difference there.

Re:Absurd (1)

Nossie (753694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345516)

no difference... if its that absurd then surely it should be easy to deny ?

Re:Absurd (1)

Poppler (822173) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345292)

Regarding conspiracy theories, I believe the burden is on the conspiracy theorists to prove their theories, not for the targeted group to disprove all conspiracies directed towards them.

I agree, and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I don't believe the theorists are "right" until the government disproves them. As a matter of principle, I think the government should be more open, and I believe that if they were, less people would be susceptible to conspiracy theories.

Re:Absurd (1)

mozkill (58658) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345458)

yes. the fact that the government doesn't publicly publish EVERYTHING immediately just shows that they have something to hide. The fact that 300,000,000 americans cannot see the video because of one dork in court is just ridiculous. Someone should be fired for this secretive shit.

Re:Absurd (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345415)

They do it to keep you scared. You will see that video repeated on Fox News 24/7 for the next 3 weeks.
Time heals wounds, make you move on. But then they dosify you with some more scare videos/tapes
so you don't forget and give them a new blank check to do anything they want.

What saddens me the most is the relatives of the people that died on that flight. You try to heal, yet
they come back and twist the knife inside you some more. Despicable.
 

Re:Absurd (1)

Krommenaas (726204) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345475)

On the other hand, if they do want to cover up something relating to 9/11, it would be smart to withhold evidence about something they do *not* want to/need to cover up - like the nature of the Pentagon attack - so all kinds of crackpot conspiracy theories arise about that which you can later disprove with the evidence you held back. That would discredit all other conspiracy theories as well, including ones that might be true.

Of course, what I'm saying here is itself a conspiracy theory :)

Re:Absurd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345481)

How did keeping this under wraps help the Moussaoui trial?

They played the part where Moussaoui is standing next to the Pentagon waving the flags so the pilot knew which side was the recently heavily-reinforced one. Duh!

Video conspiracy debunking work (3, Informative)

Council (514577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344982)

Most of the traffic I've seen about the conspiracy theories centers around the most recent Loose Change [google.com] video. The claims in the video are well-argued but absolutely silly. While trying to explain this to several people who had sent it to me (as well as check to see if maybe some of their stuff was true) I stumbled on an excellent viewer's guide in which the video is taken apart line-by-line and fact/logic-checked. I found it on some cached upload site thing whose reliability I can't vouch for, so I've mirrored it here:

http://xkcd.com/911_loose_change_viewer_guide.pdf [xkcd.com]

Remember: if you can't identify the fake conspiracy theories, you'll never learn who's really out to get you.

Re:Video conspiracy debunking work (2, Informative)

Bob Bobbinson (574371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345476)

Funnily enough I was reading this [ccdominoes.com] earlier which is just the plain HTML and not in PDF (not sure if it's the original source though).

I now approve of Bush! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15344983)

I was starting to disapprove of him, but now I have remembered how evil and mean the dark Arabs are, and realize that Dear Leader is protecting us by fighting them over there rather than over here.

Hail to the chief! /sarcasmo

Re:I now approve of Bush! (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345299)

I was starting to disapprove of him, but now I have remembered how evil and mean the dark Arabs are, and realize that Dear Leader is protecting us by fighting them over there rather than over here.

And that strategy has worked exactly when in history?

Five years... (4, Funny)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 8 years ago | (#15344999)

What the hell, did they use a cluster of 386s to render the thing?

Re:Five years... (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345195)

It's times like this when I regret I have no mod points :)

Re:Five years... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345346)

No, They had to run "emerge Xine" first.
The video rendering only took 5 minutes.

release (1)

fusto99 (939313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345000)

They were probably waiting until the release of Flight 93, the movie.

Response to 911: Loose Change (3, Informative)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345038)

For those of you unaware of the conspiracy theories floating around, 911: Loose Change [google.com] is a documentary that claims that the U.S. government planned and executed the attacks on 911. It's obviously all B.S., but it does make you think. The documentary fails to address the fact that no one tried to expose these plans beforehand. If the U.S. gov't tried to do something like this, thousands of people would of have to known about it. Anyone with a conscience would have exposed this plan and tried to put a stop to it. And there has a to be at least A FEW government employees that have a conscience. Either way it's such a stretch, it almost reminds of the whole "We never landed on the moon" theory. People are willing to say anything to get some attention.

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345111)

And there has a to be at least A FEW government employees that have a conscience.

Why has it taken years for some light information about secret CIA prisons and domestic NSA spying to come out?

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (1, Insightful)

HardCase (14757) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345144)

It's obviously all B.S., but it does make you think.

It makes me think that there way too many looney toons out there...

-h-

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (4, Informative)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345358)

If the U.S. gov't tried to do something like this, thousands of people would of have to known about it.

The plot [gwu.edu] has been on the table for over forty years. You're not one of those that believe that our government would never do such a thing, are you?

Mad props for the National Security Archive (5, Informative)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345519)

Love that place, and love the Freedom of Information Act that allows it to exist -- one of the true strengths of our Democracy.

If you haven't read it, and if you are at all prone to dismissing "conspiracy theories" on the basis that our government wouldn't do that kind of thing, you have to read it. If you've ever wondered: Did the CIA really know and approve of the Contras funding their war by selling drugs in the States? Did the U.S. really know that Iraq was using chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds at the same time Donald Rumsfeld was shaking Saddam's hand and providing cover stories for him? Read it.

Nothing that I know of that is relevent to the current situation, but it is still a fantastic archive and a great resource for putting to pasture any remaining naivete you may have about the nature of governments.

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (1)

mozkill (58658) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345402)

yeah. our government has a 100% success rate with tricking the public. tons of conspiracies about and none of them have been exposed. Only God himself could plan things so perfectly.

Secrecy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345425)

There are thousands of people that have security clearance to know about "secret" info and yet don't blab about it to the general public. Just because a lot of people know something you don't doesn't mean they are going to tell you.

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (0, Troll)

crhylove (205956) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345507)

How exactly is it obviously BS? Have you even watched it? I'm not a conspiracy nut, generally, but there is POWERFUL evidence supporting the idea that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were fully aware of all attacks on 9/11, and were in fact complicit in them.

Review your facts before you open your mouth.

rhyY

Re:Response to 911: Loose Change (1)

corbettw (214229) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345530)

And there has a to be at least A FEW government employees that have a conscience.

And this is the fatal flaw for all conspiracy theories. As Ben Franklin said, three can keep a secret if two are dead. And given just how many leaks there have been from this administration, it's completely absurd to believe the government had anything to do with 9/11 and someone hasn't leaked the documents proving that to the media.

This is the same stuff that we saw in 2004... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15345074)

This is nothing new at all. They released this video over two years ago. The same five or six frames. The same lot of nothing.

In Soviet Russia, conspiracy conspires on you... Wait a second...

Conspiracy Theory (1)

tgraupmann (679996) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345078)

The act of using the term "Conspiracy Theory" is republican code word, for saying the video tape was released because too many liberals were asking for the video.

At last... (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345092)

Five years... till the computers finished rendering the tape and it can be released.
Doctoring the tape with Bin Laden commenting on the attack took them much shorter :)

Did You Look at the Pictures? (1)

MikeyTheK (873329) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345133)

What do you mean there is nothing on them? Look at the pictures, morons. You might be able to argue that they are fabricated, but maybe you would like to explain what that big round thing that's entering the building, and the other angle showing what appears to be an airplane? Well, the "big round thing" could be an emu, but I'm a little suspicious...

Where's The Plane? (0, Troll)

Deinhard (644412) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345157)

OK...so it's grainy footage and doesn't show anything clearly, but where is the plane? If a commercial airliner hit the building at that angle, with that amount of open space in front, it would be sitting in the grass. There's no debris, no fuselage, no tail assembly, no cloud of dust, no nothin'

Re:Where's The Plane? (1)

bheading (467684) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345281)

You are factually incorrect (Google it; there are pictures showing aircraft parts on the Pentagon lawn) but let's assume your theory has some basis.

What happened to the Flight 93 that left the airport with all the passengers and crew on board ?

Re:Where's The Plane? (3, Interesting)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345334)

What happened to the Flight 93 that left the airport with all the passengers and crew on board ?

Wow, I just noticed this (don't know why I never noticed before) but this plane has the same freakin' flight number as an airplane in The Twilight Zone that never returned- got lost in time.

Re:Where's The Plane? (1)

ImaNihilist (889325) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345485)

That's as good an explanation as any I've seen.

Re:Where's The Plane? (1)

Deinhard (644412) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345404)

I wasn't going to delve into Flight 93 since it was OT. However, if you actually watch the video (it's a frame-by-frame security video) you can definitely tell that there is not a plane in the view. Also, in one frame (conspiracy theorists take note), it look like an ALCM is heading for the building.

Re:Where's The Plane? (3, Informative)

corbettw (214229) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345539)

There's no debris, no fuselage, no tail assembly, no cloud of dust, no nothin'

Bzzt, wrong. http://images.google.com/images?q=pentagon%20fligh t%2077&oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:e n-US:official&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi [google.com] shows dozens of images from the crashsite, all of them with debris clearly visible. Some are dupes of each other, but scroll through, there was a lot of debris scattered about.

let's be honest (3, Interesting)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345186)

As much as I don't trust Bushco, I just can't see all those people not being dead. You can't cover up something that big.

I mean, we clearly saw the planes hit the towers, so it's logical to assume that if planes were used in place A, why bother to not use planes in place B.

I think the thurst of the paranoia would be better suited looking at how the towers fell as if internal explosions took them down, and the planes were just for drama. That's the only part that I think I can begin to question, though that's not to say our government is more behind it than any other government in the world. If anything's wrong, it's the towers falling so quickly like they did.

Not that I really believe Bush planned it, (is he smart enough?) but if someone other than bin Laden and his crazies was in on it, I want their heads too.

Re:let's be honest (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345442)

If anything's wrong, it's the towers falling so quickly like they did.

And the third building (WTC 7, wasn't it?) falling at all. Apparently it was struck by falling debri... which caused it to collapse on itself just like the skyscrapers next to it? This has never made sense to me.

Neither has the apparent lack of damage from the engines of the plane that hit the Pentagon. Those engines contained more concentrated mass than the main fuselage of the plain; should there not be three holes in the wall?

Futile task (4, Insightful)

Gadzinka (256729) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345191)

A government representative commented that they 'hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories.'

Now, that's really stupid and pointless task. Every conspiracy theory is not falsifiable [wikipedia.org] , so there's no point in disproving it.

In short, there's no proof that you can give to conspiracy theorist, that will convince him he is wrong. Just ask any of them, if there is anything in the world that would make him change his mind.

Robert

Re:Futile task (2, Interesting)

basic0 (182925) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345417)

1. Not that I doubt the Pentagon was hit by an aircraft, but it is documented fact that several security camera tapes were confiscated after the crash. Release them in their entirety.

2. Explain to me why standard operating procedures for NORAD that would normally require specific orders to disregard, were disregarded that day.

3. Explain to me how WTC-7 came to be the only steel-framed structure in recorded history to suffer a complete collapse as a result of fire alone. (FEMA's own report offers an elaborate theory which they say has a "low probability of occurance")

4. In light of the signifigance (particularly to insurers, architechts, engineers) of WTC-7's collapse-due-to-fire, why were the building remains sold to China for scrap before they could be fully analyzed? The building had been evacuated hours before the collapse, it was not necessary for rescue crews. This is a major event in the building industry: if steel structures can collapse from fire alone, insurance rates would have to be adjusted, architects would have to reconsider the design of thousands of structures.

5. If Flight 93 was destroyed by being crashed (intentionally or accidentally) into a field in Shanksville, PA, why did it leave a debris field over 8+ miles?

Answer those questions and I'll change my mind on the subject. And no, "I don't know", "It's not important" and "Maybe you need to adjust your tinfoil hat you crazy moonbat!" aren't valid responses. This isn't some wacky UFO and alien abduction silliness. The known laws of physics and US military standard operation procedure were both apparently out to lunch on 9/11, and we want to know why.

Time? (0, Redundant)

cosmotron (900510) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345192)

Five years... just enought time for them to doctor up the entire thing.

right..... (1)

ngdbsdmn (658135) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345262)

... nothing to see here, move along

what this video proves (2, Interesting)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345312)

The heart of the US military apparently isn't watched any harder than me when I drive around town. Really.... are those two time lapse cameras really the best they had?

Further... (2, Interesting)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345351)

Further to my article posting...it appears the "new" video is no more than a slightly higher quality and lenghtier version of the Pentagon's CCTV camera tape - released less than six months after 9/11 itself. I won't go in to the inconsistancies here - spot them for yourself at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4987716. stm [bbc.co.uk] > the BBC's page.

Will it put the conspiracy theories to rest? No. Did the US government want this footage retained as it simply fuels speculations of foul play; what with a higher quality image of a false looking 747 revealed?

If anything, this new higher definition tape just fans the flames of speculation. What about the CCTV confiscated from nearby establishments such as a high rise hotel? These too are in possession of the US government - yet haven't been released. If they give (as they will, given their position overlooking the Pentagon) clearer pictures, then why haven't these been released as well, to utterly cement US claims of Flight 77's actual crash?

Who knows...maybe I'm just a paranoid android.

On reflection (1)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345418)

On reflection I'll briefly go over the chief inconsistancy within the video. The alleged 747 plane is too small - the guys who made the 911 Loose Change video [wikipedia.org] have a more in depth analysis regards this. The upshot is that the actual cockpit of the plane does not match that of a Boeing 747 - nor does the overall frame of the aircraft. With the video now released at a somewhat higher quality, this ought to be even more in evidence - which is why the Pentagon was reluctant to release the tape.

WTF? (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345373)

I've seen that video over a dozen times on TV over the years, and now they tell me it was withheld all the time? Just two days ago I saw a documentary about the crash, and they showed the video 3 or 4 times (it was one of those docus where they show everything at least 3 times to save money).

Do I have to report to Gitmo now?

let's ask ourselves... (0, Troll)

GReaToaK_2000 (217386) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345413)

WHY are they releasing this? WHY did they release a movie about the flight that crashed in PA?

distraction? salt in our collective wounds?

Something like the above is what I believe... It's being done to help garner support because our country is finally starting to wake and say "hey, wait just a freaking minute!!! What the hell are you people doing?"

The countries support of our invasion of Iraq is flagging, we continually find out that our current administration has been deceiving us (well most of us) and continues to lie to us. All in the name of "protection" and "remember 911"...

There is only so much we will take...

I for one am just glad that people are finally realizing what some of us have been paying attention to since day one.

Conspiracy Theorists paid by the govt? (-1, Flamebait)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345436)

Nothing better to clear the government from a conspiracy charge than a theorist saying it was missiles and not airplanes. Compare this with globalphobics - while there are many legitimate people asking for a change in the way Uncle Sam does business with poor nations, all the govt. has to do is throw in some zealots to mix with the population and discredit the movement entirely.

So, let's forget about the UFO guys and the "it wasn't airplanes it was missiles" nutjobs. What about a much more plausible conspiracy? i.e. Bush (or one of his friends) having an agreement with Osama (Let's not forget that the Bin Ladens DID have business with the Bush family - i'm talking about Oil).

Here's how it goes:

You play the bad guy, I play the good guy, but I don't catch you and instead I go for Iraq. I become the national hero, just in time for the 2004 elections. Meanwhile you keep threatening the west with more attacks to keep the public in fear.

Scientifically, this idea is not far fetched AT ALL. The problem with it, is that it would turn Bush (or the CIA) into a cold blooded murderer who sacrificed thousands of american lives to gain political power - and that's so shocking that nobody would ever believe it.

Except one annoying reporter [michaelmoore.com] , so let's give him a call and tell him to shut up, and in the meantime, throw in some conspiracy theorists to make noise so the people won't ever find out the truth.

And that's my theory.

Haven't (1)

BoxSocial (945632) | more than 8 years ago | (#15345510)

I haven't seen this movie yet. Does anyone know how it ends?
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