Microsoft Responds To 360 Hackers 170
Microsoft would like to remind you that hacking your console most definitely voids your warranty. From the Eurogamer article: "Modified consoles, Microsoft added, 'will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided ... the protection of intellectual property rights is a high priority for Microsoft and our partners, one that significantly and positively impacts economic growth, technological innovation, and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.'"
The Repsonse: (Score:1, Funny)
-Microsoft
Not the rights, but the money entailed... (Score:2)
And it alway$ ha$.
well, duh! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:well, duh! (Score:1)
,br> someone probably though "COOL! I can get free games now!" did it incorrectly and could no longer boot regular 360 games, called up Microsoft and asked about it went through the normal questions and found out he would have to send the console in, realizing this he (cause let's face it, only a guy would be THIS stupid) mentioned that he tried to fix it himself and ended up taking the thing apart to try and fix it, they knew right away what he did and let him know th
Re:well, duh! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:well, duh! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:well, duh! (Score:3, Informative)
By definition, no. However, assuming a normal (Gaussian) distribution of intelligences, that's a reasonable approximately.
Re:well, duh! (Score:4, Funny)
I guess that's a hint at where I fall in the distribution...
Re:well, duh! (Score:5, Funny)
Being in a room with the Harlem Globetrotters doesn't affect this assertion.
You're wrong. (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it.
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
I think "average height" is quite well defined to mean (sum of heights)/(number of people). Since human height (or intelligence) is not distributed evenly or on a bell curve or anything like that (think of mentally or physically disabled people), the average height (or intelligence) is highly unlikely to be equal to the median height (or intelligence).
Thus, it's not true that half of all people are taller or more intelligent than the average height or intelligence.
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2, Funny)
When I start my own country, I'll make bad grammar and spelling capital offences.
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
Re:You're wrong. (Score:2)
It's probably not. I'd say the average height (say, of an american) is most likely below the median height. The reason is that there is a disproportionally large amount of small people (due to persons with a disability - I'm sorry if that's not the PC term, english isn't my first language).
Median == average is very, very unlikely to happen in the real world, even if the curve is almost a bell curve.
For the lazy... (Score:2)
a) 100 for the average IQ.
b) 90% of the test-takers being below mean IQ.
Now, this example does not refute the grandparent's point that most people are idiots,
as it only requires a change from "Half of all people are below average intelligence."
to "At least half of all people...", however, the sample could be skewed as follows:
Nine scores of 110 and one score of ten, for an average of 100, with 90% of people having
above average intelligenc
Xbox Live (Score:2)
Of course it won't be warrantied...if M$ is trying to scare them now, it's a bit too late as the warranty seal on the console has already been broken. Just a scare tactic for M$, a risk that's already been calculated for the modders.
Re:Xbox Live (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Xbox Live (Score:1)
Re:Xbox Live (Score:2)
Dear Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)
Signed,
Anonymous
Re:Dear Microsoft (Score:2)
I wouldn't hack one until like the third generation units come out. Just like I won't run a Window OS until at least the second service pack.
Besides, until there's an XBMC for it, it's not worth hacking,imho.
Meaningless (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Since the mod doesn't involve a soldering iron there's much less chance of permanently wrecking your console. Heck, I think one of the first steps is to take a backup of the firmware so you can fix it if something goes wrong.
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Have you tried messing with the "white gear"? There's a gear you can use to adjust the height of the laser. You just have to open the cover, open the top of the DVD drive, and you can see the gear. Mark it with a pen so you can always put it back where it was. This got a few more months out of it.
Currently mine will play CDs fine, but DVDs give it problems; so I use HDloader to play games instead, copying them over on my PC.
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
http://mattread.com/archives/2004/01/ps2-disc-read -error-fix/ [mattread.com]
That is just the first google result I found. Scroll down a few pages.
here's another
http://www.tweak3d.net/articles/ps2repair/4.shtml [tweak3d.net]
If all this doesn't work, you can always buy a new laser assembly. They are about $40-55 depending on where you go.
Re:Meaningless (Score:5, Informative)
After giving them my GamerTag, Email Addresses, Phone Numbers and Xbox360 Serial number they gave me a reference number for the call and I am to "expect a return call from them within the next week with the prepaid code" that I need to enter to enable to download from xbox live
How can they claim they wont give you support if you void your warranty? it's no different than what they provide at the moment with a valid warranty.
Re:Meaningless (Score:5, Informative)
Either you can't read, or you can't do math. :) When you go to delete anything from the hard drive, you can see exactly how much space it takes (in KB or MB, depending on the item). Even if you saw that Hexic is ~30MB and didn't realize that it was accurate, you're never going to get 20GB out of that hard drive. First off, 20GB == 18.6GiB (silly hard drive marketing using the SI definition of GB, while Microsoft displays "GiB" as "GB" on the dashboard). From that, subtract another 4GiB for game buffers (same deal as in the original Xbox, though they never told you the exact size there. Everything was in "blocks"), some amount of space for Xbox emulation, filesystem overhead, and the dashboard, OS, and related resources, and it makes perfect sense that you only get ~13-14GiB of usable space on a 20GB/18.6GiB drive.
Oh, yeah, if you haven't heard back from support, call them again. They're people, too, and it's not unheard of for people to forget things once in a while. You just may be unlucky.
If support people are "forgetting" (Score:3, Insightful)
Hopefully the support people aren't tracking your call using yellow stickies on the cube wall to remind them "Call Joe, re: code" Usually there's something more sophisticated than that for tracking support. Either there's an automated system for handling this, or at the very least the ticket should be coming up as unresolved. Saying "hey, anyone might forget" is a little silly
Re:If support people are "forgetting" (Score:2)
Hey, are you knocking my tech support methods? I'm far more likely to call someone back if I have a yellow sticky note taped to my monitor than if I have to remember to check Remedy once in awhile for open tickets.
Re:If support people are "forgetting" (Score:2)
That said, I WISH we had Remedy. We have Unicenter Service Desk (USD) and it's widely disrespected over here. It's nrealy impossible to perform a simple text search to locate a previous problem, so as to assist you with the problem at hand.
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Sounds like a lot of jobs I have interviewed for.
Re:Meaningless (Score:1)
Re:Meaningless (Score:1, Interesting)
About a year after purchasing my first Xbox (the first one), it broke down for some reason and simply would not start up. After calling their tech support, they let me know that my warranty was over (it had been over a year) and that she had "some bad news." The bad news was that they would be sending me a box for me to package the Xbox and send to them, for free to fix, for free. Afterwards, they sent the Xbox back to me weekend ov
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
anyways, i trust that some people have had great interactions w/ tech support. each call is different. some people may get a really nice tech, some people may not. case in point, many people say that the xbox360 launch returns went well, because they got their console back within days. others complain because it took them weeks. MS is just like any other major company when you call for support: YMMV
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
Yeah, I have bad luck.
Re:Meaningless (Score:1)
This /.er has. My (original) XBox blew up my home cinema amplifier. Dunno what was wrong with it (voltage spike when turned on?) but after a while the input that the XBox was on would break. (Sound which was identical on both channels was amplified as it should be; sounds which were only on one channel were not amplified at all, so couldn't be heard.) The first time it hap
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
I called tech support, spoke to some guy in the US (I'm in Australia) and after he thoroughly probed me he arranged a pre-paid box to be sent to me so I could have the unit repaired/replaced.
Without the warranty I'd have been down a few hundred dollars. Outside the warranty period, I'd happily hack the X-Box, but inside that time I consider hacking it to be a
Re:Meaningless (Score:2)
what's new? (Score:1, Insightful)
This should be common sense and not news (Score:1, Insightful)
Significant positive impact? (Score:2, Interesting)
so wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
economic growth
The only economic growth impacted is the upward growth of the modchip makers -- an industry Microsoft can't dominate and bully. What happenned to the economic growh of Netscape when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows -- a design flaw that has not been corrected even in Vista! How about all of the patents illegally used by Microsoft over the years? Why was their "economic growh" and Intellectual Property not worth protecting?
technological innovation
The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.
and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.
Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability? Quality like overheating and frequent crashes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices? From strings to hang the power brick to watercooling for the processors, the hardware hackers have been improving on the designs of the XBOX 360. It seems to me like these problems should have been fixed BEFORE shipping by highly paid designers, not AFTER shipping by fans who didn't want to feel cheated out of their money.
Re:so wrong (Score:2)
Re:so wrong (Score:1)
It's true. The foulness of Communicator is what destroyed Netscape. IE4 was leaps and bounds ahead in the key demographic of "people who don't like horrible browsers."
Re:so wrong (Score:2)
Re:so wrong (Score:2)
Microsoft finally listened to people with Vista, thank god.
Re:so wrong (Score:2)
It's about time they took a 'password for every program' appr
Re:so wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
Halo 2 used to be fun, running into a guy who shoots you from his flying warthog (and yes I mean the damn thing flew through the air) through walls with automatic headshots is anything but fun, nor is playing capture the flag with a guy who can run across the map in 1 second, capturing your teams flag about the same time the system tells you it has been taken.
Re:so wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the classic dilemma of anybody doing anything security-related. If you're defending, you havet o protect the entire system against any possible hole, usually with limited man power (yes, even in the OSS world), and under a time constraint to get the software/hardware out (you may patch it later, but you need "good enough" from the start). If you're attacking, you just need one tiny little hole, and you have all the time in the world to do it. And, you're working with essentially infinite man power (while you're focusing on one hole, another attacker somewhere else is focusing on a different one). Innovation here lies in how long you can keep your system unhackable.
It's your own damned fault if you don't understand the physics of a spinning disk and try to reorient your Xbox 360 while a disk is playing. Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have made the Ring of Light adjust with the orientation of the console, as that would keep the sheeple from screwing up their games because they want to see the pretty lights. Not a design flaw (go try it with a PS2 -- you'll have the same problem. Nobody was ever stupid enough to do it with a PS2 because there is no Ring of Light on the front).
I can't help but think the overheating issues were way overstated by early adopters and the media. By all accounts, my own 360 is "launch window" (build date of early December, purchased mid-December), and I've yet to run into an overheating issues. Then again, I don't box my 360 up in an enclosed media center, with no airflow around the console or the power supply. You wouldn't put a PC in an enclosure with poor circulation, so why would you do that with an Xbox? There was a verified problem with a bad batch of power supplies, but you could get that replaced under warranty (but not if you modded!). Not to mention the many cases where crashes were attributed to overheating when the real culprit was a poorly-connected power supply (you have to push it in until it clicks and the little clip catches. Otherwise, you're not going to have a solid power connection and could easily crash the box because of it).
You're both right and wrong. Modders did design ways to cool the 360, though none of them were particularly innovative (if you can't cool it better than Microsoft did in the same form factor, it's not an innovation). However, those modifications are unnecessary with a little common sense, and potentially a power supply swap.
You want to talk about innovation? Okay. Go build a comparably-powered PC in the same form factor or smaller. I bet you can't do it. No, Mini-ITX.com [mini-itx.com] doesn't count, because those PCs are nowhere near as powerful as a 360 (they make great media centers, though!). Even Sony can't do it. The PS3 is going to be huge. The 360 is no larger than a PS2. Don't believe me? I'll take a picture. I have my PS2 standing right next to my 360, and the 360 is approximately .5 inch taller due to the hard drive, and no wider. It's a little deeper by about 1.5 inches, but that's less than the old Xbox and much less than my cable box or my DVD player.
Re:so wrong (Score:3, Informative)
I think you're probably right about most of that, but the 360 is substantially bigger and heavier than a PS2, and also requires an external power supply the size of a brick.
Not that the 360 isn't an impressive piece of engineering, but it's much more comparable in size and mass to the original XBox.
Re:so wrong (Score:2)
Ok, I know it's off-topic, but the only one to blame for Netscape's problem is Netscape. The reason IE became more popular than Netscape is because, at the time, IE was *better* than Netscape. It had nothing to do with integration with the OS. Netscape crashed regularly, got rid of their stand-alone browser in favor of a behemoth that did everything poorly and nothing well, and then to completely finish themselves,
AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
+5 Funny
(or, better yet, +5 The Exact Opposite Is True :-P )
Go MS (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't wait until my XBox 360 gets repaired. The 3 red light circle started flashing the first time I plugged it into Xbox Live.
Only voided warranties...? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you point to even one case where Microsoft prosecuted an individual for modding his Xbox? Sure, they and Sony went after Lik-Sang for selling mod chips, but not the people who use them. They've attacked sellers who sold modified Xboxes with 100s of pirated games, but that was because of the pirated games, not the modchip. They patched holes in games and the dashboard that allowed for soft-modding, but that's their perogative and your fault for buying a re-release of a game or signing in to Xbox Live (and if it was IE or Windows, you'd be bitching if they didn't patch the holes ...). They banned modified Xboxes from Xbox Live, but they have the right to choose who uses their service and who doesn't (and once you're banned, you no longer have to pay for it). Read the TOS you agreed to when signing up. Microsoft has never stopped anybody from installing a mod chip and running Linux.
Expect all of the same to happen now, too. In fact, I'm surprised that their only response was to remind you that you void your warranty with this hack. The current hack is only useful for playing pirated games. You can't use it for homebrew software or to run Linux, so there's no legitimate justification to shield it. When (not if) a real hack or mod chip appears, expect to get banned from Xbox Live for using a modified console (which will be much worse this time around, since Live is so much more important to the core experience of Xbox 360). Expect Microsoft to continue to go after people selling consoles with pirated games. And expect them to stay out of your business if all you want to do is run Linux and stay the hell off of Live.
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2, Troll)
Yes, in their internal court. Sentence: Lifetime ban from the Live service.
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nope. They ban the specific Xbox, perhaps the Live account, and maybe the credit card in extreme cases, but there's nothing stopping you from getting a non-modified Xbox, a new Live account, and using a different credit card if necessary. Anyway, getting banned from Live is nothing even close to legal prosecution.
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Claiming they are good, sweet and tollerant because they didn't take you to court is just false.
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Would that be the Live service where you agree, as a precondition to joining, that you won't try to hook up with a modified Xbox?
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Court persecution is not the only possible form of repression.
I can watch for you to cross a street in illegal place and smash you with my car crippling you for life. I did so legally because you crossed the street in illegal place, I didn't even have to brake. But oh, I'm so saint, I didn't sue you!
Re:Only voided warranties...? (Score:2)
Actually, I think you'll find that if you can prove that somebody purposefully didn't even try to avoid you, they're up for charges.
But, yes, when you specifically say 'in exchange for allowing me to use your online service, I agree not to modify the physical hardware that I use,' and you then modify the physical hardware, you've got no beef when they discontinue the service on you.
Don't blame the stove when you're told that it's hot, but you poke it anyway.
MS Real Response (Score:2)
Of course, I might be wrong, but I really can't see them being too worried. If they decide to go this way then the likelyhood is (until new methods are found) that the only people this will work for are the owners with older versions of
Microsoft hardly cares about piracy (Score:5, Informative)
That's the sad part. It's very obvious that Microsoft cares much more about preventing Linux, Xbox Media Center and Game Shark much much much much more than they care about preventing piracy.
The 360's security against unauthorized software undoubtedly cost millions of dollars to develop, and an unknown amount to manufacture. Meanwhile, the anti-piracy system of the 360 is almost identical to the Xbox's weak system. They barely changed anything, even though they knew it was already broken.
By the way, the piracy hack for 360 was finished months ago. They probably spent the rest of that time designing their stuff to make it incredibly hard for Microsoft to detect it through Xbox Live.
Expect Microsoft to very soon reflash the drive of anyone connecting to the Internet with a version with no back doors and that checks digital signatures of future flashes. And they'll do this instantly upon detecting a connected network cable without asking for your permission.
Melissa
Re:Microsoft hardly cares about piracy (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft hardly cares about piracy (Score:2)
Luckily the hack also allows use of good old-fashioned backup/working copies. Less "omg my disk got scratched fuck help".
No, what they care about is... (Score:3, Informative)
If that goes, Xbox live's one REALLY good reason to exist does too.
Re:No, what they care about is... (Score:2, Informative)
Honestly I don't care (Score:5, Interesting)
I only started using it again when I decided to mod it to run unsigned binaries like XBMC on it. An interesting side effect was that I was able to copy my until recently unusable games to the hard drive to actually get to play them without the system locking up with an "Unable to read disc" message all too often.
I actually bought a few games after I modded the system due to the fact that I was now able to once again use the console for what it was intended to do.
Honestly I'll wait for the hackers to perfect a similar method for the 360 before I'll pick one up. I have no interest in pirating games but I would like to ensure that I will be able to play games that I purchase without being frustrated again.
Re:Honestly I don't care (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, with a modified system you would no longer be able to play on Live. Whether that matters to you or not is a different issue.
The problem with your DVD drive was unfortunately common,
Well at least... (Score:3, Funny)
YOU ARE ALL THIEVES!
*GASP!* (Score:3, Funny)
I really can't think of any other reason that anyone capable of modding a console would want out of Microsoft's tech support.
So why (Score:2)
Re:Just because you asked. (Score:2)
Live? LIVE???#$%# Live is the reason I won't get sucked into the xbox360. Yes it's cheaper to buy, but having to pay monthly for the benefit of getting game updates and simple online functionality is reprehensible. Steam, last I checked, is f-r-e-e.
Re:Just because you asked. (Score:3, Informative)
It's only a limited subset of features that require paying - and really, $50 is a bargain for what you get. Cheater free online play (try THAT on a PC), a voice communication system integrated in, e
Wow! That's a Lot of Hackers! (Score:2)
"warranty" (Score:5, Informative)
In Scandinawia for example, there is a (by law) 2 years of indemnifications from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to consumers. And even 5 years on items meant to last significantly longer than 2 years.
Now, this doesn't cover normal wear and tear. Nor does it cover consumer misuse (like say dropping the console from 6 feet), but neither does Microsofts "warranty".
If you do mod your console, this affects your rigths under law not at all. The only exception being, offcourse, if you break the console by doing the mod. That is, offcourse, not Microsofts fault.
But if you say mod your console by soldering in a new BIOS, and then half a year later the DVD-drive breaks, MS will have to replace it at their cost, unless they can show that it's likely the DVD-drive broke because of the soldering-in of the new BIOS.
Americans buy expensive "extended warranties" to get what people in other countries have by default. (not that it stops companies from trying to push "extended warranties" here too, it's just even more pointless here.
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
If I buy a new house, then repaint the bedroom green, then half a year later it turns out that one of the windows in the bedroom has a leak, the original builder will have to replace the window. But I don't see what rationaly you'd have for claiming that the builder could then, if he so choose, also repaint your bedroom to the original color.
Modifying things you own is ALLOWED. Not only that -- but it's perfectly common, and when it comes to anything
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
I'm explicitly saying that in many countries, the rigths you have by law are *more* extensive than those offered by volunty "warranties" from the manufacturer, which makes the "warranty" useless.
For example, in Norway if a product breaks in its first year it's at the *consumers* discretion if you'll accept a repair, or demand a replacement. (There's an exception if replacement is unproportionally expensi
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
When MS says "installing a mod will void your warranty" this sounds, to me atleast, like they're saying they'll not undertake any warranty-repairs on a modded xbox. I'm just pointing out in Scandinavia the
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
>from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to
>consumers.
It was actually increased to 3 years recently.
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
I assume you're talking about places like Best Buy and other electronics retailers, since as an American that's really the only common situation i've run into as far as paying extra for a better warranty - maybe I just don't hang around with the right people, but I don't know anyone who actuall
Re:"warranty" (Score:2)
Correct. So damages that are a direct result of this would not be covered. If you made the motherboard broken during your attempt to solder on a new BIOS, you'd not be covered.
Damages that are unrelated to this are however covered. So, if you *do* install a new BIOS, and half a year later the power-supply melts, MS will have to replace that at their
Warranty was only 90 days anyway (Score:5, Interesting)
To be unbiased, the PS2 also had a 90 day warranty [playstation.com] as well. The gamecube has a twelve month [nintendo.com] warranty.
I used my warranty past 90 days. (Score:2, Informative)
The call center was pretty noisy though.
XBMC (Score:2)
Modified to play "pirate games"? (Score:2)
Re:hardware lockdown bad (Score:2)
Re:Modding/Hacking may cost you more than warranty (Score:2)
No download service for game patchs Never had it for my Xbox, or PS2, or Dreamcast, or PS1. Never affected my enjoyment. Check (not to mention patches for XBox games are readilly available on the warez scene, same will happen for the 360).
No Live marketplace (which will exclude Live Ar
Re:Warranty? (Score:2)