Can You Survive Long Commutes? 209
Should I Be a Frequent Flier asks: "I am currently considering a job offer in an Aerospace company, and suffice it to say, I am very excited. Unfortunately, there is a catch - I would have to fly to work. While this may seem appropriate for an Aerospace job, it might not be appropriate for a married life, as it would require that I spend two or three nights a week away from my family. This is a big step, and I don't want to pass up a wonderful opportunity, but I don't what to wreck my marriage for a job. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of arrangement, either pro or con?"
I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much any place in the country has the same services you have where you live. Nice people exist called real estate agents that can help you with this, if you happen to own your home.
It'll kill your relationship with your family. Don't do it man..
MTW
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:5, Funny)
You're joking, right?
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:3, Funny)
... Actually, that could explain a lot about her....
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:3, Interesting)
Our experience with that left us both thinking "We could do waaaay better than that ourselves." So, I just recently passed the license exam and will start working in real estate next month while continuing my IT career, at
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
We asked to look at one house, and she said "I haven't been in that one, but yeah I can sho
Re:Real estate agents are people? n/m (Score:2)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Some places have different costs of living to other places, and house prices.
Some places have vastly different levels of crime to other places. It wouldn't be worth moving from a peaceful area to the middle of a crime zone for the sake of saving a commute.
Some places have different amenities to other places and of vastly different quality and prices.
Some places have a wide variety of shops selling a wide variety of produce. S
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:4, Interesting)
I commute 45 minutes each way, 5 days a week. At first it sucks, but eventually you adapt and it becomes great thinking time. The only reason I commute is for my family; if it weren't for that, I wouldn't do it.
Commuting is a sheer waste of time...
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Mine is a 20 min walk to the station, an hour train, a 25 minute bus ride, and a 5 minute walk to the office. Somehow it feels worth it for the good money, and I'm not sure why I think this.
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Consider yourself lucky that you only commute 45 minutes. I lose 3 hours every day in commute time. I would give anything to have those 3 hours of my life back. If I could, I woul
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Up front cost is anywhere from $50 to $5000 depending on just how nice and fast of a bike you want to get. Your call.
The
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
The unfortunate fact is that on occasion I have to visit sites other than my home site. This requires a car. Not to mention occasionally bringing work home with me. Granted this is a worst case scenario, but it is hard to fit the odd desktop machine in a backpack. It boils down to one of those situations where 95% of the time t
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Ummmmm... people don't have the option to live near Cheyenne Mountain? There's a fairly sizable town (Colorado Springs - pop. 360,000) right next to it!
Regardless, I'm surprised that noone has given any thought to reasons why this guy might not be able to move ea
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
It sounds like this guy is living in one city, and commuting to another hundreds of miles away.
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
I am a computer consultant and I am at different locations every day luckily most of the time they are in normal commuting range, around 10 miles of my house. But for aerospace you could be in different states or countries every couple of days while the main office is located close to his home.
Jackass, you can't move to Area 51! (Score:2)
Common /.! Why was I the only one to think of this!! Alright, everyone hand over their nerd cards... NOW (and just to avoid any questions - no, handing over your nerd cards DOES NOT entitle to you re-aquire your man cards).
Re:I've got a wild idea for you... (Score:2)
Move? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Move? (Score:2)
It's summer, they aren't in school.
asking your spouse to find a different job seems cruel and unfair
It's perfectly reasonable for the secondary breadwinner to follow the primary breadwinner.
The real question should be:
Re:Move? (Score:2)
Check those gender assumptions (Score:2)
We don't have any evidence that the author is male, either.
--MarkusQ
Re:Check those gender assumptions (Score:2)
We have a prior belief based on the general population of Slashdot that looks something like this:
Male: 0.99
Female: 0.01
Is it so un-PC to make reasonable assumptions backed up with strong evidence?
Re:Check those gender assumptions (Score:2)
Re:Check those gender assumptions (Score:2)
Furthermore, we are assuming that their family has two breadwinners and not just one.
Re:Move? (Score:2, Interesting)
Exactly.
I bought a place within 30 minutes walk to my office in Sydney because I was sick to death of relying on a woeful public transport system we have.
I also sold my car, and get taxi's everywhere. Walk to the shopping centre. I'm fitter for it and its actually saved me time and money.
Re:Move? (Score:2)
Re:Move? (Score:2)
Re:Move? (Score:5, Interesting)
not an option (Score:2)
An oil rig is another.
You could actually move to Kodiak Island [wikipedia.org], but the kids would get eaten [wikipedia.org].
Re:Move? (Score:2)
Re:Move? (Score:3, Interesting)
It works for them. Part of the reason is that their kids are old enough that being a "single parent" a few days a week
I'm not the one you should ask ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm not the one you should ask ... (Score:5, Funny)
Don't talk nonsense. If anybody is qualified to give marriage advice, it's Slashdot readers.
Move or look elsewhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Newsflash (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Newsflash (Score:2)
Chosen? F*** that, man, if you wanna live a comfortable life, you got no choice. Work sucks, and everybody knows it, but there aren't any other options for most people.
Re:Move or look elsewhere (Score:5, Insightful)
Seconded, thirded, fourthed, and fifthed. I have a wife and three kids, and they're voting too.
Just yesterday, I came home from work and my little 13-month-old held her hands up and said "YAY!" for the first time. I wouldn't want to miss anything like that.
Re:Move or look elsewhere (Score:3, Insightful)
> from them with such regularity. You're talking about missing a quarter or more of their lives. No amount of money is worth that.
That's fair - but what about the value to a family of living in a good community? If you have strong attachments to a positive local friend & family network, you're well-interated with the schools, churches, etc...
Then moving to chase a job can be worse than bei
A lot of people are suggesting you move, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Homer Simpson did this too! (Score:2)
The Answer: Depends (Score:5, Insightful)
The most important one, I think, has to do with what stage your marriage/family is at. If the kid(s) is/are young, don't do it.
Assuming your family situation/schedule is such that you can dissappear two or three days a week without seriously screwing things up, your wife is the next factor.
Even if your wife is currently "okay" with the idea, it might not last. Her family history is extremely relevant to this discussion. All kinds of psychological issues might crop up while/because you're gone.
Marriage counseling is a smart move, no matter what you decide.
If you go ahead with the job, you need to figure out, in advance, what problems you might have and how to deal with them. If you don't take the job, make sure you aren't going to resent the fact that your wife had some role in keeping you from it.
The alternative, if the kids are young, is to move.
Depends (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't ask slashdot. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't ask slashdot. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing wife is supportive. However, he's probably double checking (seeking advice) to make sure that his default opininon of, "Yes, its a good idea", and his wife's default opinion of, "Yes, I love him, I can make it work," are pratical.
If his wife was 86'ing the idea, I'm guessing he wouldn't bother asking Slashdot
Re:Don't ask slashdot. (Score:3, Insightful)
As for moving, it may be that you don't want your family living near a place where rockets are tested, or maybe the place of work is a long way away from populated area's for exactly this reason. Or maybe it's a secret government agency and he's actual flying to the far side of the moon twice a week.
One
The point of Ask Slashdot (Score:2, Insightful)
Then 20 different threads are started exploring the possible reasons why this might not be possible.
Which is the entire point of Ask Slashdot: to exhaust the special cases so that each of us may learn about our own special case.
some people have suggested moving but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know one boeing engineer who flies to the middle east and africa on a regular basis to help with sales. He seems ok with it, but has drawn a firm line as regards how many hours he's willing to spend at work and how much time he's willing to spend overseas. I've been told he's refused promotions several times that would have required too much time out off his family life.
My suggestion is that when you are in town, make sure you aren't working overtime, and that you get home to spend time with your family. I'd also explore the option of bringing your family along on vacations once in a while (I don't know how practical this is though...).
If you still don't get enough time with your family, I suggest starting new families at the various locations you fly to. If you marry the right people you might even turn a profit and be able to quit your job and be a husband full time.
Do it. (Score:3, Interesting)
I have just taken a job like this (Score:2, Informative)
It's Been Done (Score:3, Interesting)
Not worth the risk (Score:5, Informative)
Cheers.
Re:Not worth the risk (Score:2)
Re:Not worth the risk (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd say, contrarily, marriages come and go. Opportunity may not knock more than once.
(And, children change the equation.)
Don't stay away from your family (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a 3 hours/day commute (90 mins each way, sometimes it takes 2 hours to get there) and it's really eating into my productivity and my life. My advice: move to someplace closer, even if it's a smaller place, with your family.
Then again, consider that aerospace isn't the most stable kind of carrer today. Right up with microelectronics for cycles. Boeing has a huge bad rap for mistreating its engineers nowadays. Where are you moving to? Chicago?
Let me give you some statistics from a job I had (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is, if you don't take this opportunity there is a good chance that you will resent having to turn down an opportunity that you are really excited about. Resentment kills relationships--it has a tendency to fester over the years. If you take the job, your wife (if she is like our wives were) could resent that you are essentially choosing your job over her (no, you can not rationalize this away by saying you are doing it "for the both of you", if she feels this way, she will continue to feel this way despite your best efforts. Feelings are feelings, they don't have to fit themselves to any arguments you come up with). Or, you can move. There are chances for resentment here as well--it really depends on your situation. I would normally say that I would try to see if she offered to move, but this doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be resentment on her part later (remember the rule--feelings are feelings--the fact that she offered of her own free will has no bearing on the feelings she has days/months/years later).
So, frankly, you are in a very difficult situation. What to do greatly depends on the personality traits of both you and your wife. Proceed carefully and discuss things in detail. Try not to make any life-altering decisions until finding out what all of both of your options are. Find out what she would be doing for a living if you both moved to the new town. Are there things that she would like to do there? How does moving there fit in with her personal life goals. Would it be a long-term move? What happens if she gets a great job offer several years later?
Anyway, I would say be very careful about any situation that you will be away on a regular basis. Some people can handle it, but I would definitely say that they are the minority. Good luck, and I hope some of this helps.
Re:Let me give you some statistics from a job I ha (Score:2)
Of course, you have to consider that more than half of all marriages end in divorce, so it's hard to say if this is atypical or not.
Re:Let me give you some statistics from a job I ha (Score:2)
Re:Let me give you some statistics from a job I ha (Score:2)
As long as you both know what you're getting into (Score:5, Insightful)
I can tell you, it's not only the fact that you're away for a days at a time... but the commute itself is just tiring. I've been lucky that my commutes have all been north - south, but my east - west commuter friends tell me that the time zone change makes a bad situation even worse. Also, the fact that after a hard week's work you know you still have an air commute home is something that wears you down. I probably don't have to tell your how aggravating airports are these days... security, weather delays, mechanical delays, etc. etc. You will be spending a lot of time waiting around at the airport, because flights don't just go when you want them to. You'll also spend a lot of time onboard planes even if the commute isn't very far because of various delays. On the plus side, you'll have plenty of time to get Linux running the way you like it on your laptop. On the minus side, you'll wind up leaving home and arriving back home at very early or late hours and there's a good chance you'll miss your kid singing in the school play, your anniversary, and the like.
Having said all that, it's a rare privilege that people can live where they want and work where they want at the same time. There's compromise in every situation, and personally I prefer commuting once a week by air to sitting in car traffic twice a day. Also, depending on the type of relationship you have with your wife, you may find that a little 'breathing room' makes you appreciate each other more when you're together. You have a chance to miss each other a bit. When I get home from my trip each week, I get the celebrity reception from the whole family.
Some wives are more the independent type, and others prefer the subordinate role. If your wife is comfortable making decisions and doesn't require your input for every little thing, then that's in your favor. In the end, though, you'll have to make sure you're both truly comfortable with the decision, because if you do it and she doesn't like it (even if she says it's ok), her resentment will start building up, which will create instability. YMMV. Good luck.
Short Term Contract (Score:2, Insightful)
The simplest answer... (Score:2)
Will you survive? That's another question entirely.
I'm not expecting a response, but is there any reason why you'd have to commute instead of moving? Is moving your family impossible? Did you just forget the obvious answer? :)
To be honest, I can't offer any useful suggestions. Hell, I'm still in college - I haven't had a stable relationship yet, let alone marriage. All I know is that Slashdot isn't the place to turn to for help. You've got to talk to your family, and
Depends (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, my dad has worked in the oilfield for most of his life. All through my childhood, he worked different shifts, ranging from 2 weeks on / 1 off, to 5 weeks on / 5 weeks off. I survived. Sure, he missed both my brother's and my high school graduations, and lots of other things, but we would also spend a month each summer on vacation as a family, including an unforgettable 5 weeks in Europe when I turned 16. My parents have been married for over 37 years, and he's still doing that type of work. If anything, his schedule is even worse today.
Of course, 2-3 nights isn't that big of a deal. I do that (and longer) on occasion as a consultant, but not every week, and less frequently now. My wife is a shift worker, and we'll see each other for maybe an hour in some 3 day stretches when she's on nights and I'm working days.
Every person is different. My dad is fine with that type of work schedule, I wasn't. My mom was fine with that type of lifestyle, my wife isn't. My brother and I turned out okay, and while I wish my dad had been around more, I still feel that him spending his entire month home watching sports on TV was more of a problem than his work schedule. You won't know until you try, but just make sure you know what you'll give up if problems arise - preferably the new job. And be willing to compensate for it - focus on your family when you're at home, and save Slashdot for evenings when you're alone at work.
Can you survive long commutes? (Score:2, Funny)
5-4-3 (Score:5, Insightful)
This is very do-able, and needn't impact your family negatively. The trick is to stay in close touch when you're on the road, and to develop a routine. My family's routines are structured around the regular days I am away. I make sure that when I'm home I am really home; which means I don't get out much with my old friends in the neighbourhood... since I'm out during the week with my project team I'm not anxious to get out when I'm home.
One last point: your spouse has to buy into this 100% before you commit to it.
Re:5-4-3 (Score:2)
The times when I do return home on Friday are project crunch times; which happens a couple of times a year, for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. Again, spousal buy-in is key; not to mention personal time management discipline.
Lastly, to ensure that I can work on airplanes when seating is tight, I have a Tab
Can be done (Score:2)
If you can, yes, you probably should move. But beyond the important is
Fly to Work (Score:2)
How old are you and how old is your marriage? Does your wife work? I assume that you have no kids.
I say go for it if it is one of those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. You may not get another one soon and if your current relationship cannot cope with you being away for a few days per week then there might be a problem there.
If there are little kids involved it's a different story.
It can go either way... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I wouldn't even consider it now. Here are some factors to consider:
REALLY IMPORTANT (Score:2)
Yes, I found this out the hard way and it cost me thousands.
10 months of 100% travel... (Score:3, Insightful)
But that is me.. I have heard that there are some people who enjoy that much travel. The last one that I knew was a Republican who was raised by a nanny and had no problems raising his kids by a nanny. Personally, I think that that kind of parenting is more like a sperm doner that pays child support.
Having a family or someone at home and traveling that much, you have to ask yourself, ( IMHO ) do you have to travel to support your family? If the answer is no, then the question is, do you love you job more than your family and which is more important to you?
Something to keep in mind though. If you invest in highspeed internet and some really good quality web cams ( Quickcams now have 1.3 Mpxl versions out ) you can do that much travelling and do video conferencing with your family when you are away.
Just my feeling though
Don't be afraid... (Score:2)
Don't be afraid to turn down a job, especially if it might not be a good fit for your family situation. In the end, your family will be much more important than your yearly salary.
Just recently, I turned down a job because the schedule and commute would play havoc with my personal life. Although I was interested in the position, I wasn't willing to trade away my social freedom during this 1 year commitment. In the end, my gut said no and I moved on.
Re:Don't be afraid... (Score:2)
Common in consulting gigs (Score:2)
In consulting, it's not unusual to work four days on-site, then fly home on Thursday and work remotely on Friday.
However, during crunch times, it's also not uncommonn to only go home every second weekend.
Happiness Rules All (Score:3, Insightful)
My S.O. is so totally not cool with this. For one, she wants me awake during the day on the weekends, especially long weekends. For another, she doesn't want to wake up from a nightmare to be greeted by an empty bed.
But she and I both realize that it's not going to be forever. I'm working where I am to put a roof over our heads in a very nice part of a very nice town, at a rate that would put us in a rat-infested hovel closer to a majot city. She's going to law school (or, in other cases, might be raising a kid or two, a fully acceptable full-time occupation, be you dad or mom), and I'm working for crap money at a crap job I have to drive halfway to Outer Mongolia to be near.
But here's the deal: in three years, I'll have either seniority or a new company paying me what I'm worth. My S.O. will be pulling down fast-track corporation money the closer she gets to her degree. This will mean a larger new house nearer to where she works, or where I work, or an enormous investment property right where we are, only I'll be there the whole weekend and all night as I go to day shift, and we'll enjoy our position.
The key is this: your job is an investment in future happiness. If it will bring you wealth and security for the next 30 years, do it. Your wife will understand... she won't be happy, not at all, but if she understands, deep down, what you're doing is for her and not something you're doing to her, you'll be ok.
If it will bring you strife, unhappiness, anguish and the misery of being alone, forever: go work for 7-11 and screw aerospace. The key is to explain how it will make the both of you deleriously happy for decades if you're unhappy, but mostly content, for a year or three.
Also, more practically, I sold my '69 Cadillac convertible, and bought something Asian with a 100k mile warranty and 35mpg. Sacrifices must be made, and I couldn't make it with a gas-guzzling, unreliable V8 pickup or luxo-barge.
SoupIsGood Food
5-4-3 here, too.. (Score:2)
Here is my story... (Score:2)
A few thoughts from a road warrior... (Score:3, Interesting)
Traveling can be really hard on the marriage. Don't underestimate this. Be sure that is in solid ground first and foremost... We were married for about seven years before I became a road warrior, which helped some. It still was not easy. Due to my heavy travel, she ended up switching to a stay home Mom. (So much for having our cake and eating it too on the financial side. A few things help.)
Being willing to be a road warrior was a fast track in on the corporate side. It was fun to 'travel the world' the first six months, but the thrill wears off quickly. One hotel/restaurant/card table at a customer is the same as another. I kept my job, while others did not, so that is worth a fair bit of stability on the home front. Risk vs. rewards, I also made more than those who followed a track that got them home each night.
Another thing to think about is staying in shape. Very easy to move into the plus sizes when you dine in a restaurant every night. The clean plate club is not a good idea. Much more work than I ever thought it would be.
I try to strike a balance these days. A few weeks of heavy travel, followed by a couple of weeks close to home.
Can You Survive Long Commutes? (Score:2)
commute by air (Score:2)
It's fun, and if your spouse wants to travel (and your family situation allows it), you get many miles. In my case, I
It's up to you (Score:2)
Truck drivers do it all the time (Score:2)
Offcourse it all depends on your relationship and both your personality. Can you deal with being alone. Some people actually prefer this lifestyle.
Basically is she willing/can she run the house on her own. Are you willing to let her do that. You will become far more of a guest in your own house if you are away half the time.
What can really bum people out is maintenance of all kinds. You will only be home on your days of
Wow... (Score:2)
don't do it (Score:2)
Plusses and minuses (Score:2)
* Do you have family or close friends in the area? If something happens, is your wife going to be on her own, or will she have support?
* Who's paying for the commute? Are you paying out-of-pocket and getting reimbursed, or do you just show up and get flown off? If you're getting reimbursed... well, everyone's heard the horror stories.
* Will you be getting a security clearance out of the
If you have a family it's the wrong job (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have a family that should come first. No job is worth destroying that.
Apologies for the rambling.... (Score:2, Interesting)
The commute is a killer (Score:2)
If you might wind up moving, or the opportunity is so good, because it will lead to something in the near term (within a year or so). Otherwise, pass.
mark
A huge variable: the maturity of your relationship (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, 16 years into it, I travel even more than that long-ago job required and, although we don't love it, we're at peace with it because we've got more shared history and shared stability together. So I guess I'd give you a classic consultant answer and say "it depends."
My disclaimer: We didn't have kids. There's no real way to make that much travel work with kids unless you make your peace with being the de facto equivalent of a divorced couple with visitation rights.
I did this... (Score:3, Insightful)
So while I only worked a few days a week, making more money than I would at a full time job close to home, I missed that precious time full of firsts with my daughter. I will never get that time back again. It was an even bigger waste than going to see Star Wars Episode I in the theater, only stretched out over a year instead of just a couple of hours.
And no, moving wasn't a viable option. This was just a consulting gig and could have ended after two weeks or two months. And there was no other work to be had in that part of the state.
So now I've learned to do more with less, pass up jobs that sound good financially if I feel they will put an undue burden on my primary responsibilities (i.e. to my growing family), and I'm now happily working at a job that pays poorly only 7 miles from my home (but has other less tangible rewards).
"have to fly to work" (Score:2)
So no, he can't move there.
Re:"have to fly to work" (Score:2)
If you want to see more information about them go to Dreamland Resort [dreamlandresort.com] and click on Area 51 FAQs on the left, then click on the link "What are the Janet flights?"
Re:Flying to work 'appropriate' for an aerospace j (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Flying to work 'appropriate' for an aerospace j (Score:3)
OSS and emerging technology? The guy was probably looking for the words of wisdom from somebody who's gone and done something like this. Considering how big Slashdot is and considering the field he's in, the odds are pretty darned good that somebody who has actually done this would be able to respon
Speaking as a child of a father in "aerospace" (Score:4, Insightful)
Where you get into trouble is when you become a road warrior where you fly home on saturday and then fly out on sunday night or monday morning. If you live that kind of life, you're probably better off just filing for divorce in advance. I've known people who have tried to live that life where their home is an airline gate. It rarely works out.