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Pirates, Web 2.0, and Hundred Dollar Laptop

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the arr-pirates dept.

339

A few quick updates on some recent Slashdot stories in Slashback tonight. We have some additional information on the ever-interesting hundred-dollar laptop, the ongoing flap over the trademarking of 'Web 2.0' for conferences, and the shutdown of the Pirate Bay site. Read on for details.

Update on the One Laptop per Child Project. dominique_cimafranca writes "Ethan Zuckerman gives a report on his visit to the headquarters of the One Laptop per Child project. Some details on practical design considerations such as the hinge, the rabbit ears, and why the hand crank was ultimately left out (apparently, Kofi Annan broke the crank on a prototype). Several pictures, and a look at the motherboard of the OLPC laptop."

TOR Calls Out Torvalds, Stallman on Web 2.0. theodp writes "In an unusual defense of partner CMP's trademarking of Web 2.0, Tim O'Reilly points a finger at Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman in his rebuttal posts. TOR also says the blogger who posted the O'Reilly-approved cease-and-desist letter from CMP 'owes us an apology for the way he responded' (he got one)."

Fallout from The Pirate Bay Raid. Tyler Too writes "The Swedish national police website has been taken offline by a denial of service attack which started Thursday night. That's not the only fallout from the raid on The Pirate Bay: there's a demonstration planned in Stockholm on Saturday."

U.S. Government Ordered The Pirate Bay Shutdown? mkro writes "According to the Swedish government sponsored tv channel SVT, U.S. government officials -- after being approached by the MPAA -- requested the Swedish justice department to take down The Pirate Bay. According to the story, the Swedish justice department asked police and prosecution to act, but when they explained the laws are too vague, they turned directly to the state attorney and the chief of the national police force."

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SLASHDOT SUPPORT HOMOSEXUAL TERRORISM! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15458969)

you know it's true!

tpb (4, Interesting)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15458970)

check out wednesday night on the weekly graph [autonomica.se]

Re:tpb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15458998)

torrent site went down, traffic stops, users move to next site, traffic starts again.... life aus ususal...

Re:tpb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459042)

Please tell me you don't think the total outage is due to the takedown. According to the graphs, traffic has not fully recovered yet.

Re:tpb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459578)

According to the graphs, traffic has not fully recovered yet.

Neither has TPB

Re:tpb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459006)

web 2.0

Wait ... are we O'Reilley's asskissing monkey's or not? This whole issue confuses a lifeless Ruby-zealot-girl like me.

Re:tpb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459316)

Yes we are. Carry on as usual.

Re:tpb (0, Offtopic)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459393)

Was the 2004 election stolen? - Robert F. Kennedy Jr

You know, I was thinking, Wasn't he dead already? And I had to click on that link to finally realize, Oh...Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

And you mods... Back off! I wasn't talking to you.

Re:tpb (1)

h2g2bob (948006) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459457)

I saw that earlier, and was wondering what caused it. Did everyone finally break the internet?!

TOR Versus Tim O'Reilly (3, Insightful)

Roody Blashes (975889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459010)

If you're going to abbreviate things like that, make sure they don't abbreviate to actual technologies. [eff.org]

It only took a second or two for me to figure out you weren't talking about EFF, but it was still annoying.

SciFi Vs OSS, oh noes! (4, Insightful)

pavon (30274) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459153)

I can't be the only one who first read that as TOR [tor.com] Publishing. I almost had a heart attack. I mean, I can deal with boycotting eBay, MPAA, RIAA, for their IP idiocy, but TOR? Do not play so cruelly with my fragile nerdy heart.

Seriously, I have never heard any one abbreviate Tim O'Reilly TOR.

Re:TOR Versus Tim O'Reilly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459248)

yeah. or artist nicks. [furnation.com]
nsfw.

Join the **AA cabal... (5, Funny)

Orrin Bloquy (898571) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459046)

...and get to puppetteer your own US foreign policy today!

MPAA: get Heathrow drug dogs sniffing DVDs!
RIAA: get Swedish police shutting down torrents!
GNAA: get chocolate buttsecks!

THE Police Website. (4, Informative)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459049)

Seems the DDoS has stopped and it hasn't been slashdotted yet, see while you can!
http://www.polisen.se/ [polisen.se]

Re:THE Police Website. (2, Informative)

NtroP (649992) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459446)

WTF? The page appears completely blank unless you allow javascript?

LAME.

U send me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459063)

U send me pirate bay 4 ur outsourced job plz.

U send me hlp 2 do ur outsourced job plz.

U send me U bend 2 piut ur career in plz.

Thx.

Zero point energy (5, Funny)

bananaendian (928499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459079)

From the One Laptop per Child [ethanzuckerman.com] blog:

The current prototype accepts voltage from -23 to +23v

And the guy's writing the article for IEEE Spectrum [ieee.org] . Good luck in your next job.

Re:Zero point energy (4, Insightful)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459237)

I cannot get to the blog; it appears to be suffering from its own DOS attack at the moment.

Thus, I must assume that the blog is a general description of the product specifications, not a detailed, technical presentation. (My apologies if I am wrong.)

That said, the portion you cited is an acceptable simplification of the actual product specs, when the target audience is non-techincal. It may have been more accurate to say the following:

"The current prototype accepts input voltages from 2.25 to 23 Volts, including sources with high noise components. It can also correct for inverted supply inputs, allowing it to effectively support -2.25 to -23 Volts."

However, a non-technical person (perhaps even just a non-electrical engineer) would get little to no additional information from my quote than from his. Why should he write overly-complicated blog posts above the technical comprehension level of his intended audience?

Again, I cannot verify the blog post's intended audience, as I cannot access it. However, this is not the first time I've seen people on Slashdot react to non-technical writing by technical people, and attack those people for that writing. Instead of doing this, the correct response is to examine both the writer and his intended audience. If people on Slashdot are not the intended audience of the post, then the Slashdot reader should judge the technical level as the intended reader would, not as he or she does.

Re:Zero point energy (0, Redundant)

bunco (1432) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459238)

zero voltage does not voltage make.

Re:Zero point energy (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459443)

Voltage is as voltage does...(?)

Re:Zero point energy (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459460)

Ethan Zuckerman's musings on Africa, international development
and hacking the media.
June 1, 2006
It's cute. It's orange. It's got bunny ears. An update on the One Laptop Per Child project
Filed under: Developing world, ICT4D, Geekery -- Ethan @ 5:52 pm

Last Friday, I visited with my friends Walter Bender and Jim Gettys at the new headquarters of the One Laptop per Child Project - the past few days have been so busy that I'm just getting the chance to write up notes from our conversation now, almost a week later. I'm writing an article for the IEEE Spectrum on the project and had asked Walter if I could come by and grill him on the technical and conceptual details of the project. But that's really just an excuse - I'm fascinated by the project, and am trying to offer what help I can to Nicholas Negroponte and his team in helping people understand what the project is and isn't, offering my perspective on how the device might best be rolled out, supported and used in developing nations.

One of the most interesting phenomena surrounding the One Laptop Per Child project has been the amount of attention it's garnered, not just from the development community, but from average users around the world. Interest in the project seems to focus on a basic and very compelling idea: a laptop that costs a hundred dollars or less. After writing a long blogpost on the project and an article at Worldchanging.com, I now average receive on average 20 emails per week asking to purchase the laptop, or recieve one as a gift. I now have a keyboard macro that gives a stock response: I'm not officially affiliated with the project, the laptop isn't available yet, and when it is, it will be sold in lots of a million or more to governments and school systems.

Most of the people who write me are interested in owning a laptop they can afford. And that, it turns out, is not the goal of the One Laptop Per Child project. Their goal is to produce a laptop designed for use by children - students in grades K-12. And that requires radically different design decisions that what one would make in simply creating a low-cost laptop.

IMG_0059.JPG

Getting across the distinction that this is a children's laptop, not just a cheap laptop, is a surprisingly difficult task. When I last wrote about the laptop on Worldchanging, a number of commenters mentioned that they'd like one of the computers as a backup or travel computer - I suspect they might feel differently after playing with one of the current prototypes. They're really small. This is a good thing - I wouldn't want a kindergarden student carrying around my 12 PowerBook - it's too heavy and too fragile. The current prototype is little, orange, and very, very cute. It has a molded plastic handle and looks remarkably like a Speak and Spell.

It's got bunny years - antennas for the 802.11s wireless radios, which are designed to self-assemble meshes with other laptops. The ears fold down to cover the USB, power and mic ports, an excellent design for the sorts of dusty environments I can imagine the device used in. The screen in the current prototype is a conventional LCD screen - the screen in the production devices will be roughly the same size, probably slightly larger than the 7.5 screen in the prototype, but will be based around a technique that doesn't require white fluorescent backlight. (Many of the questions I need to answer for the IEEE article concern the screen, as it's one of the most expensive and power-hungry components of the machine.) The keyboard is about 60% of the size of a conventional keyboard and has calculator-style keys.

My favorite feature of the current prototype is the hinge that holds the machine together. Ever since Nicholas outlined the engineering challenges of building a good hinge, I've been fascinated by the different ways people attach screens to laptops. As promised, the laptop can be folded into an ebook, with the screen on top, used as a handheld game player, or have the screen turned around so the machine can be used as a video player. Walter tells me that Quanta, the company responsible for manufacturing the machine, insisted on the hinge used in the prototype because it's the only one they trusted to stand up to the wear kids will put on the machine.

In other words, while I love it, I'm not trading my laptop in for one any time soon. I suspect that low-cost computers designed by AMD and others are likely more appropriate for most users than the laptop. Again, that's okay - the goal isn't to capture the bottom end of the laptop market - it's to give kids learning tools. If the laptop did become popular on the low end of the market, it becomes a target for theft... which is one of the reasons the machine is a brilliant shade of orange.

Walter tells me that they're thinking of versions of the laptop in terms of the color of their prototypes, rather than nifty codenames like "Longhorn" or "Panther". The last iteration was "the green box", and the current orange box may be superceded by the purple box. The whiteboard in his office is covered with color combinations, clustered by the emotions they evoke, helping designers decide whether the laptop should be "bold" and "vivid" or "calm" and "sober".

(Enough color theory. It gets pretty geeky from here on out. There's some more comprehensible stuff about ideas for software design in about ten paragraphs, for folks whose eyes glaze over when I start talking about technical specifications... Keep in mind, this post is really for me, as a way to transcribe my notes, not for you. :-)

The one feature missing from the prototype I saw - the crank. It's been clear - even before Kofi Annan broke the crank off an early laptop prototype - that a power-generating crank attached to the machine, like cranks are incorporated into FreePlay radios, might not work. Jim, who has designed the motherboard of the machine and has been focused on power consumption helped me understand why.

Contrary to what you learned in The Matrix, human beings are lousy at generating electric power. Small children are capable of generating between five and ten watts, for short periods of time. Since conventional laptops draw about 6 to 8 watts with their screens turned on, that's a real problem for a child-powered laptop. The laptop needs to get much less power-hungry, and power generation needs to maximize the output a child is capable of. This means being ergonomically smart - use large muscle groups, and use human-generated motion efficiently. A crank attached to a laptop fails on both fronts - to crank a box, you fight the tendency of the laptop to move in the opposite direction of the crank. This means you either hold the laptop in one hand and crank with the other - and do work with both arms - or put the laptop on a table and run the good chance of it falling off a table. And cranks use small muscle groups - the triceps, hand and wrist muscles.

The solution is to make power generation an external add-on. The team is working on microgenerators that produce power using really big cranks - ones you might anchor with a hole in a table, and crank using your whole upper body. (Think Oompa Loompas in Wonka's chocolate factory opening valves.) Other microgenerators use a pullcord, the sort I use to start my lawnmower, or pedal power. And other power sources, including solar panels, could plug into the input jack of the machine. The current prototype accepts voltage from -23 to +23v, which lets power hackers be very creative - and more than a little sloppy - in providing power to the device. Got a power block for a laptop? If you can make the connector fit, it will power the laptop.

The prototype I saw didn't have a battery installed, but the team has decided to use nickel metal hydride batteries rather than lithium ion. The rationale? Lithium is not very tolerant of voltage spikes - you need to regulate the power that enters the battery to prevent damage to it. Human-generated power is neccesarily spiky, so regulating that voltage means losing generated power. NiMH is less efficient than Li-Ion in terms of power transfer, but the ability to capture spiky power is worth the tradeoff... and MnH batteries are somewhat easier to dispose of in an environmentally conscious manner than Li-Ion.

The machine still needs to be miserly with power to be usable as a human-charged device. And this is where the team have worked some serious magic. When the machine is not in active use, it can act as a mesh node, helping maintain a connectivity cloud over a village or school while drawing only 0.5 watts - the wireless subsystem (a Marvell chip with 100kb of RAM) operates independently of the main processor and can forward packets with the CPU shut down. The machine draws a similar amount of power in ebook mode, using a black and white display. The display IC has a substantial frame buffer - this means it can store a black and white image and display it without any assistance from the CPU, again allowing the CPU to shut down and save power.

With the processor and color screen in action, the laptop draws 2 to 2.5 watts. To get the power consumption so low, Jim and the team chose an older AMD chip - the Geode GX2 - rather than the newer chips, which burn more power. He could have cut power further with an ARM chip, but this requires a major software compromise - much of the software the team wants to run on the laptop requires an FPU, which the ARM chips lack. Using the GX2 chip and the version of Fedora Red Hat has been developing for the machine, many Linux packages run on the laptop with almost no porting effort.

The board itself is designed to encourage hardware hacking - the 500 prototype boards currently built come with a VGA jack soldered on... but production models will leave the jack leads etched on the board, though unpopulated. Want to turn a laptop into a device that can drive an external monitor? Solder one on. Also on the board but unpopulated will be connectors for additional RAM and flash memory, as well as a mini-PCI slot. A goal for the next iteration is a board with a wider pitch, which makes it easier to repair the board or to hand-solder additional connections. The case is designed to be easy to open and access the innards - this makes it easier to make Frankenmachines from dead machines, and also makes it easier to mass produce lots of these devices quickly. (Those Torx nuts on my Mac? As much work to install them as it is to uninstall them.)

The storage capacity of the machine is decidedly modest - 128MB of RAM, 512MB of flash memory instead of a hard drive. That 512MB has to hold the operating system and applications, as well as any documents. No one's going to be loading a complete copy of Wikipedia onto this any time soon... That said, Walter showed me an early prototype of another orange box - a wire/wireless interface. Basically, it's a wireless base station, designed to connect some of the laptop mesh nodes to an ethernet cable (presumably attached to a VSAT or some other device.) The box acts as a peer on the network, not a server, but has a larger storage capacity, so could serve as a document server as well as a web cacheing server. And you just might load Wikipedia - or an edited, educational version of Wikipedia onto these boxes before distributing them.

(We're moving, more or less, from low-level hardware up to software. It takes a while - there's a lot of details I'm trying to remember. And I'm beginning to wonder how - after getting the 97 questions I currently have queued up for the team answered - I'm ever going to explain this to people in 3000 words...)

One of the challenges in using flash RAM as a long-term storage device is that flash suffers wear from being written to much more quickly than hard drives do. A standard Linux installation creates a "swap" partition, making it possible for memory-hungry applications to use a piece of hard drive as slightly slow virtual memory. This isn't such a good idea on a Flash-based system - all the writing to flash degrades the memory pretty quickly. To avoid these issues, the laptop is using a filesystem optimized for flash - jffs2 - which attempts to spread the wear around the entirity of the flash. And, borrowing techniques used in porting Linux to HP handheld devices, much of the code running on the machine will be highly compressed, saving precious storage space.

The prototype running at the OLPC offices was running GNOME on top of Fedora, and looked very much like one expects a Linux desktop to look. This is not what most children will see when they turn on the machine, but it's important to the designers that the machine be designed in layers, like an onion. (Or a parfait. Software designers like parfait.) For expert users who want to develop on the system, the laptop will ship with gcc, gtk, and the other stuff you need to build and distribute software. In addition, the software will include three development environments: Python, Javascript and Logowiki.

Given Alan Kay's involvement with the software design, I was shocked to hear that the laptop wouldn't be a Squeak/Smalltalk machine. Walter tells me that Alan is finding things to like in both Python and Javascript. The importance of Javascript to the machine reflects the idea that many users will be interacting with the machine primarily through a web browser - Javascript is a particularly rewarding language to learn when you're focused on the browser.

Logowiki, from what I've seen of it, is amazingly cool. It starts from a collection of wiki pages, like Wikipedia, and treats pages as computational objects. This means that the Wikipedia page on Logo would run Logo, letting you try out functions and move the turtle around. This opens up some amazing possibilities - wiki pages about physics that include programmable models that help you understand acceleration or momentum, for instance. And, indeed, you can come onto logowiki and play with little programs that build spirals or calculate Pi.

Wikis are important to the architecture of the software for another reason - they're part of the subversive strategy behind the machine. The OLPC team won't have control over what content is loaded onto the laptop in different countries - that's the decision of individual education ministries. But by using wikis as a content management system - rather than, say, a PDF viewer - the team manages to sneak in the idea of user-generated content into schools. Perhaps most textbook pages will be protected in a wiki structure - wiki features like discussion pages will still exist, opening new possibilities for how kids interact with schoolbooks.

Walter explains that the fundamental design goals for the software of the project are to give students and teachers tools that leverage their ability to learn, their ability to be expressive and their ability to be social. A simple interface - more for discussion than a rough draft of any actual interface - shows some of these ideas. It's a tabbed interface, like a web browser, which holds applications like a word processor in some of the windows. Another window holds a graphical chat program, designed to let a student type or draw messages to another student - the chat is aware of what other students are logged on and proximate to the machine. The goal is not to isolate students from one another, having them stare into their machines, but to encourage them to communicate through the machines.

Students are encouraged to create as well. The color screen and large trackpad, which can be used with a stylus, make the tool a likely medium for artistic expression. And a microphone jack and recording software encourage kids to explore musically. (Not coincidentally, the microphone can double as an input to a virtual osciliscope, opening an interesting series of scientific experiments.)

Hearing the ambitions for arming students with powerful, programmable learning devices, my skepticism comes to the surface. Not because I think the machine is not up to the task - instead, I suspect schools are likely to fall short. In much of the world - and, unfortunately, too often in the US as well - schools favor discipline, control and rote learning over creativity, self-directed learning and collaboration. No matter how you slice it, the laptop is a deeply subversive creature, likely to undercut the authority of teachers who don't figure out how to master the device as quickly as their students. Like everyone else who's worked in IT and international development, I've got nightmare stories about computers locked in rooms so no one will break them. It's too easy for me to imagine teachers threatened by the laptop ordering students to put them away and watch the blackboard.

Walter and crew aren't unaware of these issues. He points out that the machine is a laptop precisely so students can take it home and learn with it in spite of their teachers. To encourage teachers to experiment and get comfortable with the devices, it will be easy to undo changes to system configuration, and to reset the machine to a stable distribution.

But really taking advantage of the potential of the laptop requires changing the entire ecosystem of education in the developing world, a process that's going to require more time than the year or two after laptops are distributed... and the efforts of people other than very bright MIT professors. The scale and scope of this project means that a large portion of the questions I most want to ask - how will this be used in the classroom? will teachers accept it? how will kids cope if machines break or get stolen? what happens when people use machines to do decidedly antisocial things? or creative and entrepreneurial things? - are really hard to answer until the machine is out in the field. I wonder out loud if it would make sense to do a small pilot before the project goes further - Jim points out that the current plan to distribute five million laptops in five nations next year is a pilot - when you're talking about building and distributing more than two billion devices, a few million is just a toe dipped into the water.

I'll be putting questions to the team working on the laptop over the next few weeks, hoping to clarify strategic and technical questions for the article I'm writing. If you have questions you think I should ask, feel free to leave me a comment and I'll try to get them into the queue.

I find that many folks have questions that are really suggestions - you can send those to me, but you'll have much greater success using the wiki the team is using to plan the project. There are also mailing lists set up around many of the key topics concerning the project - if you post a good idea on the wiki, you may be able to get yourself added to one or more of those lists. Pitching suggestions to me as a way of pitching the team is a decidedly poor idea - I'm documenting the project and trying to raise some skeptical questions, not acting as a member of the design team.

Way to Un-clarify (4, Informative)

NoTheory (580275) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459087)

TOR Calls Out Torvalds, Stallman on Web 2.0. theodp writes "In an unusual defense of partner CMP's trademarking of Web 2.0, Tim O'Reilly points a finger at Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman in his rebuttal posts. TOR also says the blogger who posted the O'Reilly-approved cease-and-desist letter from CMP 'owes us an apology for the way he responded' (he got one)."

If one reads O'Reilly's post, the entire endeavor undertaken in the post is to explain how USUAL the cease and desist letter that was issued is when defending a trademark. And then he cites Torvolds and other as examples of other people who have trademarks they wish to defend. There's no finger pointing going on, nor is there any oddity in his defense. Which again, is the whole point of O'Reilly's discussion. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, and i'm amazed that someone can read O'Reilly's piece and then go ahead and incorrectly convey the content.

What irony.

My Government is POISON to the rest of the world! (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459093)

I sincerely hope that other governmental bodies of the world come to realize that the political influence of the U.S. is simply poison to them. They threaten every democratic society they influence with their agenda. I am increasingly ashamed, embarassed and angered by the tactics used by our government. While I believe it would be painful or maybe just disruptive, but I think that, for starters, the US should be excommunicated from the U.N. and N.A.T.O. alliances for their behavior. Talk about your "monopoly abuse" cases...

It's time other nations started to shun the US even more than they already do. Perhaps then some sort of balance could come from this. The next bout of elections will not come soon enough but even then I'm unsure of how much damage will be reversed.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459133)

Days of the US hegemony are numbered. The writing is on the wall. At the moment soverign states pay lip service but when the Euro shift comes and the dollar tanks US arrogance is going to be left screaming at the skies. Don't be ashamed of your govenment, do something about it. The USA was once a bastion of liberty and freethought, it's not too late to save your nations reputation from the ugly minority that weild disproportionate power.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (3, Insightful)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459185)

They threaten every democratic society they influence with their agenda.
Because the concepts of intellectual property and copyright were invented by the US, and the only people who benefit from those concepts are Americans (it's funny that you are actually implying that Americans are the only ones who produce decent intellectual property).

I think that, for starters, the US should be excommunicated from the U.N. and N.A.T.O. alliances for their behavior.
The US is supposed to pay 1/4 of the UN's expenses, and they get what in return? I don't think they'd mind all that much. As for NATO, the US provides almost all the logistical support for most NATO missions; it would be quite funny to see NATO try to operate without the US. Considering how and why NATO was formed, it would also be quite humorous to see the US kicked out of that one.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459284)

The US is supposed to pay 1/4 of the UN's expenses, and they get what in return?

Supposed to, sure. But they don't pay their bills, do they? The USA is currently hundreds of millions of dollars in arrears.

And for wha it's worth, the point of the United Nations is not to allow countries like the USA to buy influence. It's to prevent war. Of course, it can't do its job very well if one of its most powerful members stops paying their bills, ignores their rulings and invades other countries. But go ahead and blame the UN for failing to stop the USA, since that is what the USA is supposed to be "buying" - prevention of war.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (4, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459313)

Did you intentionally miss the posters point?

The fact is the US pressured another government to take down a site that was LEGAL in the country it was in.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459411)

The US can't convince Iran to give up work on its nuclear program (using either incentives or threats). The US State Department whines about all sorts of things to no avail all the time, and the US proposes all sorts of motions in the UN General Assembly and Security Council that get nowhere. If the government of Sweden doesn't want to do as the US asks, what is the US going to do? The US is a paper tiger; from time to time, it is also a bogeyman brought up to stir up the people -- nothing more, nothing less.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (0)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459484)

Well American corporations would stop selling goods, the US would use allies in the EU to apply similiar pressure.

Oh, and Hossain thought the same thing, that there was nothing the US could do.
oopsie...

WTO

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459554)

Well American corporations would stop selling goods,
In capitalism, you don't make money by not selling any goods. The US government would have to impose a trade embargo to forcefully prevent corporations from selling to Swedes. This move would piss off a lot of people, would get a lot of negative press, etc.

US would use allies in the EU to apply similar pressure.
What allies? Even if there were any (Poland?), the EU regulations almost certainly prevent one EU member from embargoing another.

Oh, and Hossain thought the same thing, that there was nothing the US could do.
The US tried all sorts of diplomatic maneuvers against Hussein. They tried embargoing Hussein. In the end, it changed nothing for Hussein. He stayed in power, and his personal life did not become much worse. It wasn't until the US used its military that they actually accomplished anything. After Gulf War II, and the way it was portrayed by the media and received by the public, the US won't be using military force anytime soon, and they certainly won't be using it against Sweden, so I fail to see your point.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (3, Interesting)

liangzai (837960) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459320)

Copyright as we know it was invented in England, but has existed in many other countries, like China, throughout history.

Let me requote from another thread (Thomas Jefferson):

"It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions, and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs. But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors. It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance."

Slashdot Leftism In A Nutshell (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459214)

The notion that you would rather kick the US out of the UN first, and not a country like say Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar or China really says something about the level of "insightfulness" on slashdot.

I realize there's a lot of US haters on this site, but this comment rated "insightful" really sums up the lunacy here.

Not that the US is perfect, but it is far better anybody here would like to give credit for. It's really sad too that these hateful comments are coming from self-hating Americans.

Re:Slashdot Leftism In A Nutshell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459403)

Actually, the US should kick the UN out, or at least demand that other members pay rent for the space they're taking up on our soil.

And if your response is to abandon bases in your countries, I'd agree with you. Our government should remove its nose from everyone else's business. I'd be all for a wholesale firing of our elected officials (be it via voting our incumbants or impeachment or other legal means), dragging them into court for corruption and then exiling them to a leprosy colony (if any exist any more, if not then throw a leper or two into Gitmo and finally put that prison to good use).

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

DittoBox (978894) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459246)

Shun the government not the people. Please do not lump everyone with the idiot gasbags that currently run it. Only lump the idiot gasbags with the idiot lemmings who still support them. There are some of us who're trying to change things.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

Clod9 (665325) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459476)

I used to think the same, before Bush was elected a SECOND time. Given all the things he and Cheney pulled in the preceding four years, the fact that the majority of plain Americans would vote for the slimeballs again tells me all I need to know about my fellow citizens. Sure, there are a few shining lights, but they are not the majority.
I say this as one who supported Bush over Gore the first time around in 2000 (big mistake).

Report on the health of the U.S. government: (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459547)

Senator John Edwards: George W. Bush is the "worst president of our lifetime" [go.com] .

The U.S. government is becoming involved in a culture of all war, all the time, and all surveillance, all the time.

Most people don't realize that former presidents have access to CIA and NSA data. So, if voters in the U.S. elect a president who has family and friends and business associates heavily invested in oil and weapons companies, that president will be able to use the data to spy on competitors. It's not so crude as that; it's much more sneaky, but that's the result.

The main purpose of the Iraq war was to arrange that the Iraq oil profits would go to Americans. Other purposes: 1) Saddam Hussein of Iraq was upsetting the planned artificial scarcity of oil, and oil companies wanted oil prices to go up. (Yes, there is real scarcity, too.) 2) The oil was being sold by Saddam Hussein for euros. If other countries began selling their oil for euros, the dollar, weakened by unprecedented debt [brillig.com] , could crash. Instead, the value is going down [factmonster.com] slowly, making everything more expensive for people in the United States. The weakening of the dollar is equivalent to stealing the value of people's savings. 3) The U.S. government gives perhaps $5 billion each year to Israel; the money is used to kill Arabs. Saddam Hussein had made threatening statements about that, and Paul Wolfowitz [wikipedia.org] arranged that the U.S. would pay for Israel's security, serving his culture against the best interests of his country. (They call it "doctrine" to give it a kind of religious importance.)

There's nothing "conservative" about Republicans. Some Republicans are responsible leaders, but others have formed a kind of crime syndicate to sell the U.S. government to whomever can use influence to make money. See U.S. Federal Deficit by Political Party [futurepower.org] .

U.S. Vice-president Cheney, whose friends and family and business associates are invested in oil and weapons, had a secret meeting with oil executives. A few months later, the price of gas rose enormously. Coincidence?

--
Taxpayer Karma: If you give money to kill people, expect your own quality of life to diminish.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459558)

Please do not lump everyone with the idiot gasbags that currently run it.

Who are the idiot gasbags running it for? The USA is still pretending to be a democratic republic, isn't it? Then the idiot gasbags are running it on your behalf, with your authority, assuming you are a USA citizen with the power to vote.

Only lump the idiot gasbags with the idiot lemmings who still support them.

Paid taxes lately? Then you are directly paying for crap like this, and, therefore, one of the idiot lemmings that supports them.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (4, Interesting)

Tx (96709) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459254)

As a Brit, I vote no to that. We've stuck by the united states through thick and thin. For stupid decision after stupid decision, we've had your back. As a result, the rest of Europe hates us. If the united states were removed from the UN and NATO, well, you might as well just hand our asses to the french and germans on a plate.

So instead of cutting out on us, why don't you just elect a president that doesn't suck next time, 'kay?

The US people don't elect the President (3, Interesting)

intnsred (199771) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459455)

...why don't you just elect a president that doesn't suck next time, 'kay?

You're making the wild assumption that the American people actually elected Bush in 2000 and 2004. (How soon we forget!)

For simplicity's sake (!) we'll ignore US laws which bias our elections to favor only Republicans and Democrats. We'll also ignore that under the US Constitution the antiquated and undemocratic Electoral College selects the president and not the American people ('cause the American people clearly chose Gore in 2000). And, of course, we'll ignore that Corporate America funds our elections and politicians so effectively that corporations sometimes -- literally -- write laws that they then have their politicians enact.

As a Brit I don't expect you to be familiar with such dirty details like that.

But it was the BBC's own Greg Palast [gregpalast.com] whose investigations proved that the 2000 and 2004 elections were blatantly rigged using a wide variety of techniques -- ground-breaking journalism confirmed by others much later.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

hurfy (735314) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459341)

Good guy:
Whatever happened to the "just say no" campaigns, maybe another coutry should pick em up and Just Say No to illegal requests from foreign gov'ts ;)

Sounds like the whole "Mom said no, so i'll ask Dad" routinue and Dad bit :(

Bad guy:
Could there be stuff on there that shouldn't be if they host for others also? and will it bite them in the ass?

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (1)

stormcoder (564750) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459394)

So next time you guys have world war, we'll just sit and watch. Sounds like a plan to me.

Re:My Government is POISON to the rest of the worl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459458)

Well, the next world war will probably be started BY YOU. You're trying quite hard to get 'em going already, it seems.

Fallout (5, Informative)

liangzai (837960) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459097)

The fallout from the Pirate Bay seizure is that the minister of justice (Thomas Bodstrom) has been accused of ordering the police to take action after pressure from the US government. Bodstrom, who is the initiator of the EU data retention directive, IP spoofing on Swedish main nodes, extended bugging laws etc., and also known as a proponent of a totalitarian big brother society, has been requested for constitutional hearings.

Pirate Bay will reappear in Ukraine, Russia, The Netherlands and three other countries. People have been very generous with equipment and hosting as soon as they heard it was the Pirate Bay folks asking for assistance.

The Swedish Police site, www.polisen.se, was taken out for a day with a sustained DoS attack. An investigation has been started.

The public is in favor of the Pirate Bay in numbers like 90-10 or so, and most are extremely critical of the action against the Pirate Bay, especially since the police used 50 police officers to seize two computer nerds and their legal representative. A whole slew of innocent operators were also having their machinery seized, in an unconstitutional manner.

The action may have a real political effect, come the September elections.

Re:Fallout (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459215)

In the mean time I am doing what I can to help.

I will write my representatives and explain to people when I get the opportunity what is going on and why it is WRONG.

The stuff currently going on with the NSA is another great example.

And, I just bought a sweet pirate shirt from TPB's web store. :)

It's linked from TPB.org > http://www.peer99.com/peer99W/swe/shoppen/steg1.as p?hkat=Piratshoppen [peer99.com]

25 bucks of my money that the MPAA/RIAA will NEVER see.

Buy TPB stuff and support them!

Moving Country Moving but onto Anonymous P2P (3, Interesting)

informatico (978356) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459392)

"Pirate Bay will reappear in Ukraine, Russia, The Netherlands and three other countries."

Warez sites are moving about to other countries, and some are even popping up on Freenet now [digg.com] . I think anonymous p2p will be the next main phase.

The first phase was napster (centralized in many respects), then second generation p2p was gnutella and emule, and now the third generation has Freenet [sourceforge.net] , I2P [i2p.net] , GNUnet [gnunet.org] , Rodi [sourceforge.net] , AntsP2P [sourceforge.net] , Mute [sourceforge.net] , etc. Even if you're not interested in the issue the back and forth conflict between the media companies and programmers is interesting - I wonder who'll win out in the end.

Re:Moving Country Moving but onto Anonymous P2P (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459427)

I wonder who'll win out in the end.

Cockroaches. No, that's not a euphemism for lawyers.

MY side of the story (2, Interesting)

peter Payne (947429) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459595)

I am a licensor and translator of PC dating-sim games from Japan ("hentai games"), which were pirated in massive, massive numbers through the Pirate Bay. Seriously -- for every copy I sell, maybe 100 copies are being pirated through their site, according to the torrent download numbers, at least. I am overjoyed that they've been taken down and hope they stay down forever. Unlike "big pockets" movie studios, I am an independent software publisher to whom the rate of piracy will mean life or death. I am not sorry at all to see these guys gone.
 
http://www.jastusa.com

TOR must have enought money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459107)

Since TOR feels that this is a good way to spend the money that we send him when we buy his books the answer is easy.

Stop buying ORA books - just download them from any p2p net on the planet.

Re:TOR must have enought money. (3, Funny)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459231)

We can't insult TOR or ODN may get angry

/. CSS Redesign (0, Offtopic)

dbzero (64544) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459108)

Well?! Where is it? :)

Re:/. CSS Redesign (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459206)

being redesigned. or resigned ?

Re:/. CSS Redesign (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459292)

I WANT MY PONIES BACK!!!!1!!1

More on TPB (5, Informative)

makak (861541) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459117)

The Ombudsman of Justice has decided to launch an investigation to determine if there were any wrongdoings in the raid, including whether the swedish government pressured the police to take action.

Tom Raftery blogged about the Web 2.0 fiasco (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459131)

And that's how these things should be handled. Tim O'Reilly doesn't deserve an apology. The people with the fulltime lawyers need to learn that they can't send out threats and expect that mistakes are not made public. These actions have a tremendous chilling effect. Therefore any abuse must be brought to light. I can't believe Mr. O'Reilly thinks he deserves confidentiality after his lawyers sent an unjustified letter that could very well kill another man's business.

Brilliant Move (4, Insightful)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459135)

The Swedish national police website has been taken offline by a denial of service attack which started Thursday night.

Because nothing increases support for your cause like DoSing a police website...

Re:Brilliant Move (0, Redundant)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459249)

It probably doesn't help in the slightest , and I can't support it at all ... but I Sticking it to the man is an international pastime, and it does feel good .

My thoughts... (-1, Troll)

irimi_00 (962766) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459160)

I'm not exactly sure what the pirate bay is but I presume it is a site where people can download movies or music.

My thought is, if they don't want you downloading the movies, then why do it? Are you that cheap that you don't want to fork out 10 dollars to go see it at a theatre or pay 3 dollars to rent it at Blockbuster? Or are you so special that you are above the law?

If you think movies are too expensive, which they probably are, then stop supporting them. Maybe you are such a big loser you just don't have anything better to do besides pirate others copy righted works. In that case get some therapy and learn some social skills.

If you have some ideological moral standpoint that makes you feel the free expression of thought should be fostered then start supporting or developing yourself Open source movies or movies or music in the Creative Commons domain. People need and want to make money so stop being so cheap, or else do something productive and helpful.

Re:My thoughts... (0, Troll)

irimi_00 (962766) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459190)

Oh and I hope this is not interpreted as flamebait or a troll, because it is the truth, and on some level you nerds know it.

Re:My thoughts... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459332)

No, it's interpreted as gormlessness, because we visited your contentless blog to see if you were simply having an off day.

Re:My thoughts... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459205)

I'm not exactly sure what the pirate bay is but... you won't bother to find out and you won't let it stop you posting.

Re:My thoughts... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459462)

My thought is, if they don't want you downloading the movies, then why do it? ...
If you think movies are too expensive, which they probably are, then stop supporting them.


Maybe people "stop supporting them" by downloading movies, instead of paying to see them???

the $100 laptop is really coming along... (2, Interesting)

thechronic (892545) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459170)

I was pleasantly surprised to see GNOME running on that thing...it looks like they'll really be able to pull off what they want to do even with the laptop's limited hardware capabilities. It's amazing how much effort Negroponte is putting into thinking about the design...he's even correlating colors to emotions that they invoke...geez. He and his team are doing a good job, they've managed to create a laptop that looks much more attractive than the crap companies like Dell spew out, no wonder people want to buy their own.

U send me (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459198)

Mpaa: U Send me

Tha go 2 get u pirate ba!

pirat ba shut down b4 i dnld dvinci cod.

swd cops shut dwn pirat ba b4 i end.

i thnk ur wrong 2 do dat swd police.

Y U SHUT DOWN PIRAT BA ?

$%!!

Y U DWN CLOSE IT?

HAfor HA 2 HA the HA f HA un HA df HA HA HA HA HA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459335)

jkfdjg lkgjfdgl jjdflkgjdlkfj glfdjglfdk jglkdfj glkdfg jd
dfglfdjgldf lkfdj glkdfj glk
fdklgjdlf gjlkfdj
gfgjlk df

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

U SEND ME URGENT

Wait... (1, Funny)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459213)

Do I need to be on Internet2 to use sites that are part of Web 2.0 or is it backwards compatible?

Sorry Tim, but - PISS OFF! (1, Interesting)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459219)

TOR : I apologize to IT@Cork for the organizational failure that led to them getting a legal letter rather than a simple email query or phone call.

Wow.

"Gee, buddy, sorry my butler let the dogs chew you a new one, but no hard feelings, right? Hey, here's a twenty for ostomy bags - Let's call it even, 'kay?"

Once you set the lawyers on someone, an "apology" doesn't cut it, Tim.

You AT LEAST owe him a beer. Quite possibly a hooker.

And requesting an apology in return? Poor form indeed!

"So, perhaps now that I've graciously extended a plastic olive branch, you should apologize for trespassing on my carefully manicured lawn in the first place, dontchathink?"


No, Tim, we don't. Rafferty drew attention to some asshole (ie, you) TRADEMARKING yet another already-ubiquitous term. And you find that a tad inconvenient? Not even remotely cool.

And then, trying to shift the blame for your arrogance to Linus and RMS? You have GOT to mean that as a joke, man! Would you also try to blame Mother Theresa for the spread of AIDS in Africa?

Un-frickin'-believable.

MOD PARENT DOWN, and RTFA (2, Insightful)

NoTheory (580275) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459445)

And i quote [oreilly.com] :

2.

MediaLive filed for the trademark on the Web 2.0 Conference back in November 2003, when they first entered into the partnership agreement with O'Reilly on this conference. This was before Web 2.0 became such a popular term -- the filing actually preceded the first conference. However, I wasn't personally aware of this trademark filing till this past February, as a result of discussions with CMP after the MediaLive purchase.


Next, is the issue of proportional response. O'Reilly as an INSTUTION apologized for the gaff that resulted in sending this man a C&D. The shit storm that resulted from his blog, and then the rest of the half-cocked idiots such as parent post was not warranted, accurately sourced, or anything more than mis-reported hearsay. Please, for the love of mike, READ before posting. The apology issued to O'Reilly was justified.

Finally, if you'd read the other comments before posting, no finger pointing has taken place. O'Reilly CITES Torvolds and others as examples of trademark holders who also want to protect their trademarks. Again, if parent post had RTFA (s)he'd know that. But parent post clearly did not.

Re: Booga booga booga! (1)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459480)

This was before Web 2.0 became such a popular term

Ah, I see the perfect sanity in that.

I wonder if the Slashdot admins will let me change my handle to "NoTheory (580275) 2.0", as it would clearly represent a radical (and trademarkable) departure from any existing user's account here.

Or, better yet, I should rush out and trademark "Web 2.1"! Thanks, you've just made me rich!


O'Reilly as an INSTUTION apologized

As an institition? WTF does that mean, exactly? Can I apologize as a DIRIGIBLE for offending you with my previous post?


O'Reilly CITES Torvolds and others as examples of trademark holders who also want to protect their trademarks.

You make it sound so tame - Guess what? That particular fallacy has a formal name - "Tu quo que", or to use the more common English phrasing, "But Billy did it, too, and his mom didn't ground him!".

Re: Booga booga booga! (1)

NoTheory (580275) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459536)

Wow, what a stunning rebuttal.

Unlike "Notheory (580275) 2.0", web2.0, as much as we like it or not, has actually come to mean something, due in large part to O'Reilly's (the institution) efforts. They were trying to convey something when they copyrighted web 2.0, as dumb a name as it is. Lambasting them for holding the rights for a term that they invented (not made as in the term, but made as in the meaning) is an idiotic and backwards piece of reasoning.

As for O'Reilly's citations, the man is not justifying his behavior based on the behavior of others. He is stating that he is not the only one interested in protecting trademarks. So unless you'd like to make the additional claim that you think the trademark system should be thrown out, you have made a non-point.

Re:Sorry Tim, but - PISS OFF! (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459448)

To be fair, TO'R points out that it was CMP, the co-owner of the conference, who registered the service mark and sent out the cease and desist letters, not O'Reilly.

Re:Sorry Tim, but - PISS OFF! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459471)

When I read posts like yours, this comes to my mind: If I were at the NSA, the first thing I would do would be to write posts like yours to disrupt a community I consider a threat to my power.

Now sir, you might not be a shill, but in my humble opinion, certainly a troll, and a near inarticulate one. And I say that despite the fact that English is not my first language.

Re:Sorry Tim, but - PISS OFF! (0, Troll)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459510)

Now sir, you might not be a shill, but in my humble opinion, certainly a troll

Neither, actually - I simply don't "suffer fools gladly". I also have a peeve regarding the trademarking of common or trivially-derived prases. I further don't accept an apology as "real" when it comes as a way to save face rather than as an expression of true regret.

Now, I do occasionally post very inflammatory comments as a result of my opinions. If you want to mod me down, have a ball. But I post how I really feel, and excepting a respondant demonstrating a post of mine as factually incorrect, I stand by what I write.


and a near inarticulate one. And I say that despite the fact that English is not my first language.

Heavy sarcasm doesn't translate well. Don't take it personally.

Wrong (1)

PavementPizza (907876) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459521)

1. TOR invented the term Web 2.0 and is its biggest promoter. Would you call Google assholes for trademarking "Google"? Apparently you would. Linus only trademarked Linux (tm) long after it became a popular word; is Linus an asshole? Apparently, yes.

2. The guy did apologize, and admitted that he had, in error, previously caused someone *else* too much trouble by blogging before contacting them. He then said that maybe he'll rethink the way he goes about things. If TOR was so out of line to request an apology, the aggreived party might be expected to notice, and say so. Instead, he promptly apologized. Are you more Catholic than the Pope?

trademarking "404" (5, Funny)

dmd (404) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459562)

In other news, I've trademarked "404" (my slashdot user id number).

From now on, all use of "404" on the internet is subject to licensing fee.

ahahaha ha ha ha (1)

ezwip (974076) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459224)

"Our homepage had to handle 500,000 visits per second and it's obviously not going to handle that. It's sort of like 10,000 people calling the same phone switch at once." ahahahaha you better get used to it you punk ass bustas :)

Giving orders to police illegal (5, Informative)

HerrEkberg (971000) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459225)

It might also be worth to mention that by Swedish law it is highly illegal for a politician in the government to give orders to the police or other institution in specific matters such as this. It is called "ministerstyre" (minister's ruling?), and the law is in place as a means to stop corruption.

Pirates (4, Funny)

d3matt (864260) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459235)

Dang-it... with the pirate bay shutdown, global warming is sure to pick up speed now.

Re:Pirates (0)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459281)

The flying spaghetti monster would never let that happen.

clearly FSM is going to create more pirates

US interest acting abroad: Scientology (5, Interesting)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459255)

A US interest has acted abroad previously. This Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] details the war that Scientology waged against anon.penet.fi.

From the article
In September 1996, an anonymous user posted the confidential writings of the Church of Scientology through the Penet remailer. The Church once again demanded that Julf turn over the identity of one of its users, claiming that the poster had infringed the Church's copyright on the confidential material. The Church was successful in finding the originating e-mail address of the posting before Penet remailed it, but it turned out to be another anonymous remailer: the alpha.c2.org nymserver, a more advanced and more secure remailer which didn't keep a mapping of e-mail addresses that could be subpoenad.

Facing multiple criticism and attacks, and unable to guarantee the anonymity of Penet users, Julf shut down the remailer in September of 1996.


Truly a chilling possibility.

Re:US interest acting abroad: Scientology (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459287)

but did anyone put the documents on a distributed system?

I'm Disappointed (-1, Offtopic)

djdavetrouble (442175) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459276)

there are already 19 comments and not a single alt.pirates.bay.borked.borked.borked or any such hilarious old school references.

I suppose it's too late (0, Offtopic)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459322)

to make any funny comments about this being in the yro category without being modded down. Besides, Iwouldn't what to say anyway. Good night folks. Catch ya en la mañana.

Re:I suppose it's too late (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459359)

Just so you know what I'm talking about and in case they change the headline:
Your Rights Online: Pirates, Web 2.0, and Hundred Dollar Laptop...A few quick updates on some recent Slashdot stories in Slashback tonight...

Oh, and very sorry for fogetting the space or the word "know" or any other errors in this, past, or subsequent posts. Thank you for your cooperation. Goddamn beer...

Re:I suppose it's too late (0, Redundant)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459488)

(Score:0, Redundant)

Damn! Hostile crowd tonght. I'll try to be twice as original tomorrow. I promise.

Hey, I was using TPB legally! (1)

shish (588640) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459365)

I was halfway through downloading some stepmania [stepmania.com] songs when it cut out. What will I dance to now? :(

Such moral dilemma; should I sit here and continue being screwed over, or should I go down to their level and sue them for interrupting my excercise schedule, and reducing my estimated lifespan by 5 years?

Re:Hey, I was using TPB legally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459383)

go here [ddruk.com] instead

Re:Hey, I was using TPB legally! (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459537)

If you'd already started downloading, you shouldn't have a problem. BitTorrent uses the tracker to hook you up to other peers. If your download's already going, and you already have a list of peers, the tracker dying shouldn't affect you. Unless you disconnected from the torrent and reconnected, or all the peers decided to close their torrents too.

Ooooh that had to hurt! (2)

isecore (132059) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459369)

apparently, Kofi Annan broke the crank

Ouch, I hope Kofi didn't need surgery for his crank!

Ba-Dum-KSSCH!

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week, try the fish!

MPAA suing isoHunt this week too (4, Informative)

From A Far Away Land (930780) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459373)

CBC.ca had a story this week on the TV news too, where the MPAA is suing a young man in Vancouver for operating isoHunt. I guess they are stepping up the attacks on torrent sites.

Just wondering... (0, Offtopic)

mindstorms (788968) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459402)

Did anyone else tag this "dupe"?

Re:Just wondering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459441)

It's not a dupe it's a Slashback.
Of course it was put in the YRO category
just to confuse you.

Misnomer (5, Informative)

Kortec (449574) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459447)

This is getting on my nerves: The RIAA and MPAA are not part the US Government. They hold no particular codified legislative, executive, or judiciary power, nor are they agencies a kin to the 3-letters (FBI, EPA, FDA, FCC, CIA, NSA, and so on).

The fact is that they are lobbyist groups; simply petitioners to the US Government. Sadly, they are wealthy, numerous, and well connected petitioners, so they get preferential treatment, but neither of them is a government body any more than any group of citizens. They way they "win" their cases is by having enough money and fear tactics at their disposal to dodge court time and exploit holes in the American judiciary.

Re:Misnomer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459493)

...Yet.

Re:Misnomer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459539)

Do people even read the summary anymore?
U.S. government officials -- after being approached by the MPAA -- requested the Swedish justice department to take down The Pirate Bay.

Re:Misnomer (5, Informative)

n8k99 (888757) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459546)

If you read this article here, http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3969&date=20 060602 [thelocal.se] , you will see that the Department of State, which is indeed part of the US Government has been at least accused of participating in this debacle.

Yuo FaiL It (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15459451)

And mortifying 'You see, even current core were As it is 7icensed *BSD has lost more don't want to feel Platform for the megs of ram runs

100$ laptop = hype city (2, Interesting)

cinnamon colbert (732724) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459540)

u can go down 2 circuit city TODAY and get a decent laptop for 300 - 400 bucks; this means it costs about 150 - 250 or so to actually make the damm things, which means that if anyone cared, they could produce a 100$ laptop to day, rounding off the numbers for the real world.

Apparently, of all the millions of wealthy people in the world, including all those in China and India and OPEC, not one cares enuf to step up to the plate, but has to have some publicty hound from MIT do it.

I say if hte poor people of hte world are so ill served by their own leaders, screw em - better to buy rifles for the revolution

Pictures of animals (1)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459569)

"At O'Reilly, we've even had to send a cease-and-desist letter once, to a company that was publishing technical books with the picture of an animal on the cover."

Any animal? Even animals O'Reilly has never used in a book cover? My first reaction to this is that there's something very wrong about that. Trademark law has become a lot worse now that things like "trade dress" are considered trademarks. Makes me sick.

The pirate bay? (1)

Compuser (14899) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459581)

Dang, I feel like I just fell from the Moon. What is Pirate Bay and why do
people care about it? Was it a web-site, a hosting company? I gather so far that
it had something to do with the internet, and judging by the name it might have
been a warez site or a warez-friendly host, but that's just a guess. Anyone care
to enlighten me.

Love the parallels (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15459584)

I love the parallels O'Reilly draws in his radar article. Wikipedia is trademarked by Wikipedia, Linux is trademarked by Linus, Mozilla is trademarked by the Mozilla Foundation, therefore it's ok for CMP to trademark Web 2.0. People generally don't have a problem with trademarks, people have a problem with abusive trademarks. ie, trademarking a term for the value of the term itself, not because your company is necessarily linked to that term. All that said, I'm not sure how Web 2.0 can be a valid trademark. Web is an invalid trademark since it's already in common currency, so how can you stick a version number on the end of it and suddenly make it trademarkable?
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