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Apple Pulls Out of India

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the curious dept.

696

tanveer1979 writes "Barely 3 months after it commenced India operations, Apple has decided to pull out its software operations from Bangalore. The employees will be given a severance package which is equal to two months' pay. The sales and marketing operations will remain on (these consist of around 30 people) but the software and support will be completely pulled out." From the article: "Apple had set itself a hiring target of 600 by the year-end. After a gala induction ceremony on April 17, the operations team went to Transworks for training. Some of the managers were about to leave for the US for further training when they were asked to stay put."

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we were wondering too (4, Insightful)

yagu (721525) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464171)

Last paragraph of the article, from an India employee losing his (or her) job:

"On May 15, Apple officials addressed us and were highly appreciative of the workforce and the task it would execute in India. I wonder why they never said anything even then," said another fired employee.

Yeah, there are a lot of U.S. employees familiar with that feeling. Welcome to the global market.

Personally, I find it just as offensive companies whimsically shift work forces, often at high personal and financial cost to employees caught unawares, whether it be in the U.S. or India. I'd like to say, "see how it feels?", but I find no satisfaction in that. I guess the global economy does apply globally. It really does become about money on ledger sheets, and little about the workforce and impact on people just trying to make a living. Meanwhile CEOs and other execs reap massive rewards, usually with little relationship to how well their company does because of these decisions.

(That said, the article is far too short on detail to understand exactly what prompted and triggered the change in plans for Apple.)

Re:we were wondering too (4, Interesting)

Clay Mitchell (43630) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464185)

heh, if you want to feel small, insignificant and just like a number, there's no place better to go than a Fortune 500 company. I work for a very large bank, and I have absolutely no illusions about what I am to them.

Apple - for the win. (3, Insightful)

Glonoinha (587375) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464294)

Holy fuck - that does it ... I'm going downtown and buying an Apple tomorrow.
I don't know which, maybe an Intel Mini, maybe an iPod - but something.

Good job Apple.

Re:we were wondering too (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464384)

Try being a Canadian govt contractor when you are looked at like slime by a Public servant. Seriously might as well have the star of david on your arm by how much effort they take to make sure you don't get mistaken as an employee. I take solice in the fact that most of the PS are idiots who wouldn't last a week if they couldn't hide behind the union

Re:we were wondering too (4, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464196)

But to change course like that after a mere three months? Sounds expensive. There must be a story behind that, and plenty of disgruntled amployees. Who wants to spill the beans? (and get sued [thinksecret.com] by Apple :)

Re:we were wondering too (5, Funny)

Eric Coleman (833730) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464200)

I'd like to say, "see how it feels?",

I'll say it for you then. See how it feels?

we were wondering too-Were's the beef? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464204)

"Meanwhile CEOs and other execs reap massive rewards, usually with little relationship to how well their company does because of these decisions."

So in keeping with slash-groupthink, Jobs and company just got a massive reward from this manouver. Right?

Re:we were wondering too (3, Insightful)

bpd1069 (57573) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464206)

Globalization has one real goal, to commoditize the work force. We are just part of a balance sheet.

Re:we were wondering too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464272)

1. One
2. Two
3. Question mark (?)
4. Profit (Exclamation mark (!))

Re:we were wondering too (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464306)

But that will lead to problems for the commoditizers as well. What happens if wage rates (adjusted for productivity) converge across the globe?

Re:we were wondering too (5, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464379)

They don't give a fuck- they'll make their money in the short term, and damn the long term.

Of course wage convergence isn't a bad thing- so long as it converges up, increasing the standard of living in the third world while not hitting the first too badly. It doesn't seem to be going that way though.

Re:we were wondering too (1)

cheaphomemadeacid (881971) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464241)

I'm probably one of those who should get a tinfoil hat but this smells government pressure all over...

Pressure from customers? (1)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464345)

As I remember, there was considerable shock when it was announced that Apple was moving some technical support operations to India.

I think this might have been in response to that backlash, which at least means Apple listens to its customers.

As you may remember this is even a mini-trend. Dell also moved much of their support operation back from India when customers complained.

I notice others feel sorry for the Indians, and I have some sympathy, but I could never understand those thick accents. So I think Apple's decision was a wise one. I was baffled as to why they would have gone in in the first place. I could have told them there would be customer hostility concerning the move.

D

Why is it offensive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464276)

Personally, I find it just as offensive companies whimsically shift work forces,

Why?

Employees whimsically shift employers too, when they get a better offer.

And when a company does this, it'll often hire an equal or larger number of just as deserving and at least as needy people elsewhere.

If this team is as hot as they think they are, why don't they start up a competing product to whatever it is Apple hired them to do -- and if they do prove worthy, Apple'll have to pay a premium to get them back. Oh. They weren't really that great. Then IMHO Apple did nothing wrong.

Re:we were wondering too (4, Informative)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464307)

Holy pop-ups, Batman! The article link spawns THREE full-screen pops that even Firefox couldn't stop.

Back on topic: There was an article in Crain's Chicago Business a couple of weeks ago saying it's hard times for the Indian outsourcing industry because wages in India are on the rise.

Re:we were wondering too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464352)

About the popups... IE7 beta blocks them all.

Re:we were wondering too (1)

BorgCopyeditor (590345) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464391)

All blocked by Safari. Maybe your settings are off?

Re:we were wondering too (2, Insightful)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464354)

If it's any consolation, the current CEO of Apple was once pushed aside from the company in pursuit of the balance sheet. ;)

Re:we were wondering too (1)

ygbsm (158794) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464366)

It really does become about money on ledger sheets, and little about the workforce and impact on people just trying to make a living. Meanwhile CEOs and other execs reap massive rewards, usually with little relationship to how well their company does because of these decisions.

Do you really beleive that - executive compensation is based on what the Board of Directors believes the executive will do for them - the share holders; and boards have sacked more than one CEO for under performing. Their rewards are directly related to the value they bring the shareholder (and hence the company). I love technologists as much as anyone else - but if you are a commodity worker - whether highly skilled or not - than you are a commodity worker, and you add incremental value to organization.

I get tired of hearing about "high" executive compensation, or high athlete / actor compensation . . . compensation is almost always about the value (in the case of a new hire - the expected value) brought to organization. People with rare, but high demand skills / talents will always be worth significantly more . . .

They were out sourced (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464173)

I guess a cheaper country was found

Re:They were out sourced (4, Insightful)

vought (160908) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464273)

I guess a cheaper country was found

Given Apple's history with outsourced phone groups (burned by SEI's horrible quality and retention in the mid-90s), I sincerely doubt it.

Apple probably saw that this approach wouldn't meet their quality goals. That's not a slam on Indians or outsourcing, but AppleCare and Apple in general is extremely sensitive to quality and customer satisfaction. 1995-1997 is still very fresh in their minds.

Re:They were out sourced (4, Funny)

harrkev (623093) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464302)

I guess a cheaper country was found
Yup. Here. [wikipedia.org]

Payback's a bitch (0, Troll)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464179)

"It started off with building dreams. We were not given any warning. They just told us the operations would now head back to the US," said a sacked employee.

Looks like they got a taste of their own medicine.

Re:Payback's a bitch (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464199)

Stick your manifest destiny up your ass. There is absolutely nothing that entitles you to get a tech job. The Indians can do the same job you do at a much lower cost. I know if I was your boss, I would probably say something like... "Thank god the racist prick is out on the street where he belongs."

Now that being said, I think it's more than a little shitty of apple to stay 3 months and then move shop elsewhere. And I also think it's shitty that a lot of places are suddenly firing americans as well. Not everyone is a prick like the parent poster. I just think it's entirely unreasonable to be cheering on companies who are screwing their employees, because you didn't like it when they screwed you and hired someone else.

Re:Payback's a bitch (0)

Senior Frac (110715) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464259)

I disagree. I do not think they can do the job I can do, an opinion I believe is supported by the termination of this particular outsourcing attempt. My IT skills, cultural knowledge, communication ability, and physical presence give me the advantage.

I just wish I would be paid what I'm truly worth. The H1B visa program needs to be eliminated. $250,000 salaries for awhile goes a long way toward improving our domestic IT training, importing labor just artifically limits those salaries. Let the immigrant IT workers jump through the same hoops the immigrant physical laborers do.

Re:Payback's a bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464281)

Let the immigrant IT workers jump through the same hoops the immigrant physical laborers do.

I fail to see how forcing immigrant IT workers to jump through barbed-wire hoops would help anything. Maybe the exercise would decrease employers' health insurance costs?

Re:Payback's a bitch (1)

dvNull (235982) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464301)

And I disagree with you. You may think you are hot shit worth $250,000 per year but the market does not think so. Just because you were educated in the US does not mean your skills,work ethic etc are in any way superior to anyone else.

If anything, you seem to have a highly inflated sense of your capabilities just from the comment you made. When you stop walking with your nose up in the air you will understand what I mean.

If you want to blame anyone for losing your job to outsourcing, blame your employer. Employers want to make a profit and they will always go with what is cheaper. But on the flip side, as India's economy gets stronger, it will not be so cheap anymore. And then the outsourcing will go to a different place.

Re:Payback's a bitch (1, Flamebait)

Kiaser Wilhelm II (902309) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464283)

Has nothing to do with racism, especially since Indian people are not a "race" (which, according to modern biologists, does not really exist anyway).

The average quality of an Indian IT worker is lower than an America. Source? Practice. I've been in several different companies in the past years and I've seen what outsourcing does. Maybe in 10-20 years when things get more modernized and other factors improve it may be different but this is the true story. Outsourcing is being done to simply shave the bottom line at the cost of quality.

Re:Payback's a bitch (5, Interesting)

mukund (163654) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464232)

I'm surprised the parent post got marked insightful.

It's not the Indian programmers' fault that US programmers' jobs get outsourced to them. So it's not exactly medicine they're delivering. US jobs get moved to India because US capitalists want to increase their profits by getting the same job done for less money in India.

Re:Payback's a bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464266)

Well i guess we still don't understand that we get what we paid for...

Payback's a bitch-Flipside. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464341)

"US jobs get moved to India because US capitalists want to increase their profits by getting the same job done for less money in India."

And US workers want the jobs to come back so they can make more money (salary). Everyone's looking out for their own interest. It's just that you only hear one side (mean old business, woe is me worker).

Damn conservative society... (5, Funny)

one-eye-johnson (911152) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464181)

India and Apple obviously haven't been properly educated about the dangers of pulling out.

Re:Damn conservative society... (2, Funny)

CrimsonScythe (876496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464260)

Well, at least their severance packages were nicer than John Wayne Bobbitt's.

Oblig. Blues Brothers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464188)

India: What do you want for nothing? A rubber biscuit?
Apple: Bow, bow, ooo-oo-ooo-ooommm...

$40 (2, Funny)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464191)

Two months severance pay in India = about $42 and 7 cents

Re:$40 (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464226)

Two months severance pay in India = about $42 and 7 cents


No.

I am a developer in India. All my college buddies are too. Not one of us gets less than $800 per month. And that's the 'entry level' for our number of years(3) in the industry.

Oh yeah? (-1, Flamebait)

mnemonic_ (164550) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464231)

Well I make more money than you even. Beat that.

Re:Oh yeah? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464274)

How much? $67,922.23 ?

Because that's how much i earn in India @ 43.5 to a dollar.

Re:$40 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464257)

Damn, the crack-addicted welfare leaches around here make more than that just sitting on their ass and cashing my tax checks.

Re:$40 (1)

ip_fired (730445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464237)

More like $1166.00. (source: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/printable/india2 _info_print.html [pbs.org] ). Still not that much when you think about it. Hopefully companies will stop trying to take advantage of people and pay them what they are worth (I know this is unrealistic). A job is worth $x, then they shouldn't think of how to take advantage of someone to save a little extra. I just wish everyone was a little less focused on maximizing profit.

Re:$40 (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464296)

This was modded insightful, so I have to ask -- is that true? If so, why is everything so expensive over here? If someone can live for two months on $40, why not have Wal-Mart buy what someone lives on for two months, ship it over here, and sell it for $80? That's a lot less than what people are paying now.

Re:$40 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464385)

That's just about enough to pay for your mother for a night, I hear.

30 people (4, Interesting)

eltoyoboyo (750015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464193)

The company had commenced operations in April and hired about 30 people for its subsidiary

In Silicon Valley, a one cough by a hiring manager can cause 30 people to disappear overnight. Thirty people in India represented less than a million dollars worth of pocket change to Apple. The story in really, "What were they attempting to do in the first place?"

It's harder than you might think (2, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464220)

The only way 30 people could disappear overnight is if that hiring manager is a corporate officer. Speaking as one who has been in the "hiring manager" role in Silicon Valley for quite some time, it's pretty hard to get rid of people, even poor performers. Yes, California is an at-will state. California's courts, however, have proven to be very pro-employee. So, firing somebody in California usually requires lots of documentation.

Re:30 people (2, Funny)

harrkev (623093) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464344)

In Silicon Valley, a one cough by a hiring manager can cause 30 people to disappear overnight.
Is the hiring manager's name "Big Tony?"

Irony (2, Interesting)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464207)

When I first viewed the comments on this article, the quote at the bottom of the page was this:

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. -- Churchill

Do you figure that since socialism has gone bust, capitalism has had to take over the sharing of the misery?

Re:Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464248)

"Do you figure that since socialism has gone bust, capitalism has had to take over the sharing of the misery?"

WTF? You mean communism not socialism. The US is not a pure capitalist economy. It has socialist leanings which is why there are public schools, Social Security, Welfare and Medicare. I hear that europe is more heavily tilted towards socialism - especially France.

Socialism??? (5, Insightful)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464397)

I hear that europe is more heavily tilted towards socialism - especially France.

Actually most of the European policital forces usually mislabeled as 'Socialists' or even 'Communists' by US right wingers are actually modern Social Democrats who have become moderate to the point where they generally do not see a conflict between a democratic society with a capitalist market economy and their own goals which in turn means they have very little in common with Marxism, Communism or classical Socialism. To call political parties like the British labor party or even the German PDS/Linkspartei Socialists would actually be considered an insult by a true die-hard Socialist.

Re:Irony (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464321)

socialism's gone bust? when did that happen? *looks around* oooh, you mean socialism has gone bust in countries that never had it to begin with... Iiii get it....

when did socialism go bust? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464347)

and why are people so unable to understand this?

china = communist country, you know, where all your 'capitalist' corporations buy their raw materials and computers

europe = socialist countries

canada = socialist country

india = socialist country

USA = going to become socialist very soon because the health care system is horrifically broken

Socialism is all around! Open Source IS socialism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464359)

NT

Sounds pretty harsh to me (4, Insightful)

coupland (160334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464208)

"On May 15, Apple officials addressed us and were highly appreciative of the workforce and the task it would execute in India. I wonder why they never said anything even then," said another fired employee.

Seems pretty cold to me. In a lot of developing countries like this a job at a major multinational serves to support not just the family but the entire extended family. No doubt some of these people even had to quit other jobs to join Apple, and can't return. I worked many years for the international division of a large multinational and saw first-hand the culture of abusing foreign workers because management knew they could work them 14 hours a day and the people couldn't say or do anything about it. And since these people are all classified as "professionals" no one can swoop into the factory to blow the whistle, you have to work whatever overtime is demanded of you, for free. Pretty crummy if you ask me.

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (0, Troll)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464246)

It's called labour laws.

If India had any sort of self-respect they'd invest in them.

In Canada and the states we had to fight hard for decent working conditions. If they're just pussies and don't want to rock the boat they'll never get any better.

Tom

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (1)

coupland (160334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464313)

No, it's not just labour laws, it's also corporate citizenship. Apple as a company should show more respect for their employees, be they in North America, India, or anywhere else. If this was a company making calendars for sale at the Dollar Store I would understand it, but it's Apple.

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (1)

Mad Quacker (3327) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464325)

It's called labour laws.

If India had any sort of self-respect they'd invest in them.

In Canada and the states we had to fight hard for decent working conditions. If they're just pussies and don't want to rock the boat they'll never get any better.


*cough* are you a software engineer in the US or Canada? *ahem*

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464351)

And now, in Canada, we can't do anything at all if the labour unions don't want us to. Progress eh?

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464378)

As soon as the cost of doing business goes beyond a certain level, companies are going to outsource to China or someplace else instead. What needs to happen is for all the countries with a sizeable skilled labour force to agree to the same set of protections. And I don't think China would be willing to partake in that.

Re:Sounds pretty harsh to me (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464339)

You seem out of touch... Bangalore is one of the main outsourcing centers, and the environemt there is like Silicon valley to the extent of the frequency people switch jobs. Hire someone and then two weeks later they quit with a better offer. This is one of the problems many company's experimenting with outsourcing are having - the super high turnover.

If you want to feel sorry for anyone, feel sorry for the American developer trying to pay for an American cost living while competing for his job at Indian salaries.

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464210)

Wow. When you can't outsource menial jobs, then there is no point in oursourcing. Apple just realized the new workforce was less productive than adding a few new employees to their current operation. Wow!

Apple (and others), do not outsource if you can't spend a year or two getting the new group "up to speed"! It is called the "learning curve".

Re:Wow (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464240)

Apple (and others), do not outsource if you can't spend a year or two getting the new group "up to speed"! It is called the "learning curve".

Why americans think they are so special? What do you do, rocket science? What learning curve do you expect most jobs in IT would have?

From where I am from people usually say:

"EVERYONE IS REPLACEABLE"

Yes, you are not special, you are the all-singing all-dancing crap of this world.

Re:Wow (1)

Kiaser Wilhelm II (902309) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464264)

As someone who has worked in various levels of management, I've seen the dregs of outsourcing. It always results in some level of reduction of quality, a decrease in customer satisfaction, and only a moderate savings.

Everything is subject to change over time but right now, the quality of the average American IT worker is far better than those from India.

Re:Wow (1)

pstudent12 (842643) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464319)

So you happily buy foriegn made computers assembled in foreign factories by foreigners ? How's the iPod and powerbooks coming along ? Now why don't you go stab another american worker in the back and go buy another outsourced foreign product ?

Re:Wow (1)

Kiaser Wilhelm II (902309) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464375)

I'd rather computers be made here at home. If it were my choice, I'd have it that way. I'm just telling you how it is. (I do tend to buy the more expensive higher quality electronics and computers that have more American made parts and assembly).

Just because I can't buy an "All American Computer" doesn't mean I am going to turn myself into a big fan of outsourcing.

Were they in time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464214)

I hope India's not pregnant!

Re:Were they in time? (0, Offtopic)

vistic (556838) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464381)

What's wrong with Indian Apple babies?

Comes with selling a lifestyle (0, Flamebait)

teslatug (543527) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464221)

That's what happens when you sell a lifestyle as opposed to a product. Yuppies don't want to talk to an Indian when they call support about their iPod.

Buzzword (5, Funny)

Joebert (946227) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464222)

Indian Giver comes to mind, it's funny, I just haven't figured out how yet. :P

Re:Buzzword (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464298)

Indian Giver is a racial slur, not funny in any context.

Re:Buzzword (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464333)

MiiGwetch, Neeji.
-The Ojibawa Nation

Re:Buzzword (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464346)

Actually in this context it is funnier than a motherfucker.
Not funnier than snakes on a plane, but still pretty damn funny (and there's not a god damn think you can do about it.)

Maybe they realized they made a mistake. (5, Insightful)

elgee (308600) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464227)

You don't throw good money after bad when you get a losing poker hand. Perhaps they realized that their India operation was a mistake. I suspect that the beans will get spilled eventually.

Mixed metaphors... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464396)

I hope they don't cry over those spilled beans. But that's what you get when you count your chickens before they cross the road.

Afraid? (3, Funny)

Clazzy (958719) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464229)

With all this evil alien bacteria [slashdot.org] invading, perhaps it's a good move for the company?

Pop-ups (0, Offtopic)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464234)

Those popup ads that the Times of India link is spraying, that aren't blocked by Javascript window suppression in Firefox or Mozilla -- is there a way to get rid of them?

I've seen them elsewhere (interestingly, always on foreign newspaper sites) but web searches only turn up people complaining about them, only to have jackasses insist that they must be spyware-infected because Firefox is infallible. (As I type this I'm realizing what answer I'm likely to receive, but nonetheless...)

Re:Pop-ups (1, Offtopic)

liangzai (837960) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464242)

Two methods:

1) Safari

2) www.privoxy.org

Re:Pop-ups (1)

RidiculousPie (774439) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464253)

(presuming you already use adblock plus and filterset.g -- if not then try this)

try using the noscript extension and whitelisting javascript only for sites that aren't frustrating, or check out userscripts.org to see if the websites in question have greasemonkey scripts to remove the adds. if developing your own script then the firebug extension is invaluable.

good luck. to an ad-free web.

RP

Re:Pop-ups (1)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464288)

Those popup ads that the Times of India link is spraying, that aren't blocked by Javascript window suppression in Firefox or Mozilla -- is there a way to get rid of them?
I've seen them elsewhere (interestingly, always on foreign newspaper sites) but web searches only turn up people complaining about them, only to have jackasses insist that they must be spyware-infected because Firefox is infallible. (As I type this I'm realizing what answer I'm likely to receive, but nonetheless...)


The details of negating Firefox's popup blocker are well known, some advertisers use/abuse this some do not yet. But there are definately a growing number of advertisers that are doing just that.

Re:Pop-ups (1)

gozar (39392) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464334)

No pop-ups with Camino under OS X... :-)

Re:Pop-ups (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464380)

Firefox on OS X. No pop-ups on that site.

Re:Pop-ups (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464401)

I didn't see anything here. I'm currently running Firefox under Windows.

I do have NoScript installed. That tends to kill a lot of the bother. I have no idea why NoScript isn't part of the standard install. I just won't browse the web without it anymore.

Every single Apple product is foreign made (0, Flamebait)

pstudent12 (842643) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464235)

Every single apple product is outsourced and made abroad by foreign workers in foreign factories. Tech support and/or development is really just grunt work. The real technology is already in the hands of foreigners and by buying apple products, you are directly stabbing the american worker in the back. No go and gleefully buy your outsourced ipod.

Re:Every single Apple product is foreign made (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464265)

I agree. It also helps corporate/industrial espionage.

if quality count (-1, Troll)

kill $(pidof explore (778891) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464236)

I work for big international corporation for very long time. no offense to my indian colleagues, but from purely skill point of view, indian engineer is behind the one from other countries(domestic excluded). My personal rank have to award Russian, Chinese next.

Re:if quality count (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464256)

Based upon your grammer, I am assuming English is not your first language.

Re:if quality count (1)

glebd (586769) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464305)

Um, it's "grammar" actually, and no, English is not my first language either.

grammE(?)r lol GRAMMER!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464357)

heh heh

Re:if quality count (1)

InsurgentGeek (926646) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464327)

Hmmm, I might buy the Russian part of this comment - but China? Are you nuts? You've clearly had no experience with the state of outsourcing in China. The current lack of skills of the average Chinese IT worker looks like India in 1981. 1,000's of bodies at extraordinarily low wages with essentially no skills.

The biggest scam going right now is onshore U.S. companies fronting for these masses of "programmers" through mergers with Chinese companies. If you think organizations have been disappointed by outsourcing to India - you haven't seen anything yet.

This will be the next big scam - unfortunately the workers and the investors will take the shaft while the dealmakers take the money. Not one of these deals goes down with a few $'s making their way to a Hong Kong "subsidiary" of the company.

Just my opinions of course.

Why the world buys Indian planes, train,cars... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464386)


That's why the world buys Indian planes, train, cars... Oh, wait, no one does! Have you seen there trains? When they say, "Get on the train", they get ON the train, in the train, under the train. Weird, man, weird! And there cars all have three wheels, and look like a rikshaw with a motor and wheel up front. Weird, man, weird! I don't think they have any planes since they don't have even paved roads. Weird, man, weird. Did you notice the cattle in the streets? Time to cook up some steaks if you ask me. Weird, man, weird!

The real reason... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464255)

"We have re-evaluated our plans and have decided to put our planned support centre growth in other countries."

In other words, the US was too expensive and now India is as well. Time to move to an even cheaper place to develop our overpriced products.

Re:The real reason... (5, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464278)

. . .the US was too expensive and now India is as well. Time to move to an even cheaper place . . .

Thank God for Mississippi.

KFG

Re:The real reason... (1)

WrenchPilot (649380) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464361)

the BEST reply!! i don't have to read the rest.

It wasn't cost, so was it quality? (5, Insightful)

theolein (316044) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464261)

Despite the HR blurb at the bottom of TFA claiming the Apple India crowd were doing well and all that, I imagine that it was questions of quality that led to the firing of the workforce. Apple's recent Aperture debacle, where it was discovered that Aperture was majorly inferior to Adobe's Lightbox in performance, features and quality probably resulted in a major shakeup in Apple's software development divisions. There have been a number of stories about companies having problems with outsourced software development, and I presume this is another one. My guess is that Apple will probably either increase the size of its Ireland operations or move the development to eastern Europe where the quality is generally known to be good.

Sadly I bet Apple found... (5, Insightful)

Super Dave Osbourne (688888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464263)

That the technology transfer was not happening as smoothly as they thought it would, and the costs became an issue too. Having worked for Apple, then NeXT, then Apple/NeXT and finally Apple again, I have seen this problem long before it became fashionable to outsource oversees. It was true stateside between regions of this country, and even more so with language/cultural barriers in this global market. The axe swings many ways, this time back to another country, possibly back to the US.

Apple Pulls Out of India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464291)

That's weird, I was under the impression it is usually companies like Microsoft that fuck countries.

Re:Apple Pulls Out of India (1)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464314)

A bunch of people have been paid 5 month's salary for 3 months work. How is that 'fucking'?

Re:Apple Pulls Out of India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464349)

I'm sorry, I forgot this is Slashdot. After a man and woman have had sex, the man typically "pulls out", or withdraws his sexual organ.

Re:Apple Pulls Out of India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464317)

Ha ha ha! You little M$ fanboi troll! How much is Billy-boy paying you? I so sick of all these pro-M$ astroturfers.

Stuck on .NET and Windows (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464300)

Most Indian CS majors (not talking about IIT grads here) come out just knowing C#/VB .NET. Its hard to train them to learn Objective-C or any other language they are used to since all of their CS skills are bound to a single language. Go to any job posting in India for .NET and you will get millions of programmers who know everythinhg about .NET. Ask for people who know Objective-C or anything non-Microsoft base, then you will get almost nobody. Its hard to find programmers in India with Mac OS x experiance, or even *nix experiance.

corruption (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15464342)


My guess would be that Apple was having the squeeze put on them by
corrupt government officials and just decided to say "screw it".

say what? (5, Funny)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 8 years ago | (#15464355)

Considering the low-cost, high-quality talent pool that Bangalore offers, it is unclear why Apple decided to shut shop just over a month after it commenced operations.

The person that wrote this has never dealt with Indian tech support I take it.
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