Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Nerds Switching from Apple to Ubuntu?

timothy posted more than 8 years ago | from the different-bell-curve-entirely dept.

957

Mindpicnic writes "The recent switch of two lifelong Mac nerds to Ubuntu hasn't escaped Tim O'Reilly's radar. He cites Jason Kottke: 'If I were Apple, I'd be worried about this. Two lifelong Mac fans are switching away from Macs to PCs running Ubuntu Linux: first it was Mark Pilgrim and now Cory Doctorow. Nerds are a small demographic, but they can also be the canary in the coal mine with stuff like this.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Mac nerds? (5, Funny)

linvir (970218) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652537)

Mac nerds? Are they the same sort of people as Windows hackers and Linux gamers?

Re:Mac nerds? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652544)

Mac nerds? Are they the same sort of people as Windows hackers and Linux gamers?

Rarer if you ask me. Probably along the same lines as geek girls.

Re:Mac nerds? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652609)

mac nerd == oxymoron

mac fanboy == fact

I switched as well (-1, Troll)

WinEveryGame (978424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652541)

I am one of these switchers as well. I am a gamer and developer, and had been a long term Apple user. But high cost of Apple and not a whole lot of support finally got to me. I recently ordered a LinuxCertified LC2440N laptop [linuxcertified.com] pre-loaded with Ubuntu. I have to say, I was blown away with this change - it really felt like an "upgrade". My previous experience (about two years ago) with Linux was not that good. But Ubuntu seems to have changed all of this. Ubuntu (and the laptop) came fully working - with all the applications I needed, wireless etc. Plus the Ubuntu user forums are probably the best I have seen. I am not surprised about this switch at all.

Re:I switched as well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652573)

well in your case it sounds like an integrator did some work before the system with ubuntu got to you. you can get some integrator to setup an apple box for you as well..

Re:I switched as well (1)

uglyduckling (103926) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652588)

you can get some integrator to setup an apple box for you as well..

Sure - the "integrator" is called Apple.

Re:I switched as well (-1)

WinEveryGame (978424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652630)

well in your case it sounds like an integrator did some work before the system with ubuntu got to you. you can get some integrator to setup an apple box for you as well..

sorry but I don't quite understand the logic above. sure I bought the laptop from LinuxCertified (which acted as an "integrator"), but the point is that I paid less than the system I bought from Apple. Perhaps there are some intermediaries who will customize an Apple system to my wishes without additional cost - but I am not aware of those. But in any case, the initial cost of acquisition is not the most important thing (although it is important - and as I said Ubuntu laptop was less expensive for me as compared to equivalent OS-X based machine), the more important thing is ongoing support and availability of applications. This is where I think my current Ubuntu based setup is far superior.

Re:I switched as well (2, Informative)

moo083 (716213) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652805)

As for support, I highly disagree. Whenever I have a problem, instead of calling, I can just drive over to an Apple Store and get free tech support in person regardless of the computer's warranty (as long as no hardware is problematic, then it depends on the warranty of course). You can't say that about any other machine on the market. I think that makes it much better than the Ubuntu setup because with message boards, you just have people guessing at your issues since they have no access to your machine, whereas in the case of a Mac, you can have someone actually look at it (and I'll add that almost all the "geniuses" actually do know what they are talking about, which I find impressive).

Re:I switched as well (2, Insightful)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652811)

But in any case, the initial cost of acquisition is not the most important thing (although it is important - and as I said Ubuntu laptop was less expensive for me as compared to equivalent OS-X based machine), the more important thing is ongoing support and availability of applications.

Not to be snarky, but it sounds like WinXP would be ideal for you based on your priorities.

Re:I switched as well (5, Interesting)

roscivs (923777) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652586)

I've actually seen far more developers switch from Linux to OS X than vice-versa. I think there are definitely switchers in both directions, but I'm not sure that there are more in one direction than the other, and I'd be doubtful that there are more switching away from OS X than those switching to. (Full disclosure: I run Linux on my desktop PC and OS X on my media center PC and haven't touched Windows in years.)

Re:I switched as well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652628)

This is news. If they come from Windows, that is expected as knowledge grows. But Mac to Linux?

The difference is, that several years ago, the top names were moving to OSX. Now you have top names looking, and switching, to Linux.

Re:I switched as well (0, Redundant)

bunions (970377) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652737)

hey hi how you doin'?

I switched from Linux to OSX (for the desktop boxes) around 10.1. I don't really know why you'd put up with the warts of Linux as a desktop machine when OSX exists.

Re:I switched as well (5, Interesting)

Phisbut (761268) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652658)

I am one of these switchers as well. I am a gamer and developer, and had been a long term Apple user.

What kind of gamer are you that your needs are satisfied on Ubuntu? I recently switched to Ubuntu (Dapper), and yesterday installed vmware-player with a WinXP virtual machine, and then installed 2 games (first is PopCap's Dynomite and the second is Civ4), and although both of them installed, neither would actually play. Maybe I'm missing something, but Ubuntu looks to me as underwhelming as any other distro when it comes to gaming (although overwhelming on everything else).

What's the best way to get games to play on Ubuntu? I still need to dual-boot with Windows because of games, and I would really, really like to get rid of that.

Re:I switched as well (1)

Frenchman113 (893369) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652688)

Some games (most) work on WINE, but if they don't work in virtual windows, I don't see any choice besides dual-booting.

Re:I switched as well (1)

hector_uk (882132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652705)

no video acceleration with VM ware or any virtual boxen. commercial game oriented ports of WINE are your only option. as for the original topic OS X pretty much invalidates linux, i'd rather have the sexy hardware/UI/softwre support any day compared to saveing 10-20% on a dell and running ubuntu on it, sure it's an ok distro i use it for my live cd of choice but why you would dump OS X for it i have no idea unless you have some analy retentive vendetta against the finder/mac UI.

Re:I switched as well (2, Insightful)

bunions (970377) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652771)

But Ubuntu seems to have changed all of this.

I wouldn't say Ubuntu is really what changed this. If your last linux laptop experience was anything like mine, this part:

Ubuntu (and the laptop) came fully working

Is really where the change is.

Re:I switched as well (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652788)

how about instead of discussing gaming on Ubuntu, we just bust the owner or employee of linux certified trying to lie to us about his identity to get some traffic?

"whois wineverygame.com" and grep for chander kant. now google for "chander kant" and linuxcertified.

gamer and developer my ass. probably never even used a mac, ubuntu, or even linux before

Third Post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652547)

Third Post

Two users! (5, Funny)

pedantic bore (740196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652553)

OMG! That's 0.0004% of their installed user base! In a single week!

Nerds are a small demographic, but they can also be the canary in the coal mine with stuff like this. Or not. Jeepers. Someone out to FUD Apple this week, or something?

Re:Two users! (2, Funny)

bunbuntheminilop (935594) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652601)

Reasoning and common sense has NO PLACE in this argument, you insensitive clod!

Re:Two users! (4, Funny)

Millenniumman (924859) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652632)

Closer to .00001%. If that occurred every week, and no one switched to the platform, no one would be using Macs in 20,000 years.

You can find people like that.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652555)

Right here [google.com] ... But I think it's disgusting IMHO. Although I am a fan of MAC especially when OS X came around... Anyways....

WARNING! GNAA PR0N-LINK! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652631)

Do not click unless... well, you know...

Re:WARNING! GNAA PR0N-LINK! (1)

j_sp_r (656354) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652730)

it was only slightly irritating, clicking enter and pressing ctrl-W stopped it quite fast

Oh no. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652563)

Cory Doctorow has switched to Ubuntu GNU/Linux?

Not PROMINENT INTERNET BLOGGER Cory Doctorow!

NOT PROMINENT BLOGGER CORY DOCTOROW!

Re:Oh no. (3, Insightful)

tktk (540564) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652591)

Who?

Re:Oh no. (0, Troll)

sharkey (16670) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652774)

Look, up in the sky!!!!

It's a bird!

It's a plane!

No! It's the joke!

Re:Oh no. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652809)

If Cory "Self-Promoting Trendoid is my Middle Name" Doctorow is doing it, it's guaranteed to be a fad.

If Doctorow heard that the "cool kids" were removing their own testicles with a fork, he'd quickly do the same.

Give me a break... (2, Interesting)

jeblucas (560748) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652569)

I've been using Macs since 1992 and hating PC's since they stopped supporting NT4.0. These "nerds" have come and gone from my chosen platform, and I'm supposed to get in a tizzy about it? They want the best thing out there, and I can appreciate their efforts to achieve it. That doesn't mean I am willing to unlearn everything I've got invested in Macs because some gadfly can't stand to look at another Terminal.app window.

Tell me when the nerds shut down Apple, Inc. That's news.

Re:Give me a break... (3, Insightful)

savala (874118) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652643)

1992, eh? These people have been active users and developers on Macs since respectively 1983 [diveintomark.org] and 1984 [boingboing.net] .
They have indeed come to the Mac. And now they've gone from it, and you might just want to listen up and find out why.

Re:Give me a break... (1)

MustardMan (52102) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652708)

So, these guys used macs back when they were good, then stuck it out when macs turned into complete pieces of shit (os 8 anyone?) and now they have moved on to ubuntu.

Who cares?

Give me this example of a whopping two users who switched away from mac, and I can list off the top of my head ten colleagues who have switched from linux to macs because they have all the command line utilities we need from a *nix machine, plus a well designed GUI and easy configuration.

It's not exactly like the switch of a few longtime windows fans to linux brought on the doom of microsoft.

Re:Give me a break... (0)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652792)

But they switched to ubuntu. I don't consider them true geeks. Almost any other linux distro would have gotten my attention. We're talking about 2 users here. If two users stop using linux do we have a slashdot story? Ok.. lets try it. I stopped using linux in 1999. Anyone care to write a story? What did i switch to? Solaris and Mac OS 9. Oh no... is that a trend? I think not.

I literally know 3 linux users, but I know 35 mac users. Who's in the minority? Ubuntu is trying to gain apple and microsoft end users. Thats their target audience. Sure some will switch to ubuntu with their weird network patches and lack of full compiler (ppc version at least) but I doubt we'll see a huge run to ubuntu. More linux users will switch distros than anything. Then when ubuntu isn't cool anymore, the next one will get all the users. This has happened to redhat and gentoo already.

That said, I have to agree that Apple's support isn't what it used to be. Worse yet, their quality of software is extremely poor. Look at the patch list lately. I've had to upgrade iTunes and Quicktime for security related issues way to often. Their windows software is extremely buggy. Mac OS 10.4.7 seems slower on 2 of the 3 macs running tiger here than 10.4.6. Apple better seriously wow me with 10.5. Its an odd release so it should be stable.

In reality, i think the open source community needs to focus on the application layer a bit more. Most open source systems have decent kernels these days. (presuming they don't screw with them often) Get some control on the linux QA process and lets start focusing on applications. You want people to switch to your platform, give them software replacements for what they use today. If I were to suggest linux to my mother today, she'd ask me the following:

1. Does it have iTunes?
2. Does it play movies?
3. Does it play my yahoo games?
4. Can i get my email?
5. Will i get another virus?

Now linux has 3 4 and 5 going for it. If I illegally use decss i can satisfy number 2. Hmm.. what to do about iTunes... (yes she uses the store)

That didn't work out. Lets try my dad:
1. Can i use aol? right off the bat...

There's two windows users who aren't switching.

How about my mother in law?

1. can i use aol? No. Well forget it.

One mac user stuck on 10.3 :)

I could see my father in law switching but he's the least technical of the group. I wouldn't recommend it to him.

Apple won't miss 'em (5, Insightful)

bheer (633842) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652570)

Apple must've been happy that lots of geeks/nerds/whatever switched to Apple and were singing its praises, but you must remember that the Mac was never a geek machine and did great and had terrific fan following -- in fact most geeks stayed away from the classic Mac because of the lack of a command line, stdin and stdout.

Lots of geeks discovered the joys of Apple hardware with OSX because, well, it was based off Darwin-- but make no mistake, Apple won't even miss these guys-- they have their own rabid contingent who won't switch no matter what. They want the computing analogue of the guys who buy BMWs.

Also, Mark Pilgrim is running Ubuntu on an Apple machine, so Apple is still getting his money. Cory Doctorcow OTOH has switched to a Lenovo (IIRC).

Re:Apple won't miss 'em (1)

Etyenne (4915) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652714)

in fact most geeks stayed away from the classic Mac because of the lack of a command line, stdin and stdout.


Or was it because of the cost, buggyness and lack of development tools ?


Re:Apple won't miss 'em (1)

Yremogtnom (774179) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652762)

"They want the computing analogue of the guys who buy BMWs." - Well, I recently (1.5 years ago) switch FROM Linux (mepis.org) TO Apple (mac mini), and I drive a truck! Perhaps I should pay a visit to my neighborhood Beamer Dealer.

Re:Apple won't miss 'em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652803)

but you must remember that the Mac was never a geek machine

Right. Steve Jobs has said publishing was a niche market for the Mac, and the education market was where the future is.

Good thing for Apple geeks don't hang out in education!

Knoppix (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652579)

Ubuntu? Try Knoppix !

Kanotix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652785)

Knoppix? Try Kanotix!
It's the best Debian rip-off out there.

Ubuntu is the killer distro! (4, Interesting)

Max Threshold (540114) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652582)

I'm starting to see more talk about Ubuntu in non-Linux-related contexts... newbies asking how to do this or that. The message is reaching the masses: Windows is shitware, and Macs are too expensive. Why put up with any of that when you can get the best of all worlds for free?

I think Firefox might have had some effect in waking people up to Free Software.

Re:Ubuntu is the killer distro! (1, Insightful)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652701)

Why put up with any of that when you can get the best of all worlds for free?

The best world for my desktop is the one that runs any application I want, and you can argue that the best for that is Windows or a Mac, but it's certainly not any flavor of Linux.

Once again it must be said (and why is this so hard for Linux advocates to understand?): People use applications, not operating systems, and Linux absolutely sucks compared to Windows or even Macs when it comes to normal user applications by nearly any metric you name (choices, ease of use, ease of installation, consistency of operation, etc, etc, etc).

Call me when the major application houses (Adobe, as an example) port their product lines to Linux. Then we have something to talk about.

Re:Ubuntu is the killer distro! (1)

rts008 (812749) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652727)

Good post. I also think Firefox had some small part to play in waking up the masses to the fact that there ARE alternatives to a Windoze only box.

If I currently had mod points, I would not have replied, instead I would have gave you +1 insightful.

Sorry I can't do better than this reply for now. :)

unlikely (2, Insightful)

Triv (181010) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652583)

Try telling the average computer user that .mp3's, aac's, or any other proprietary media format won't play out of the box and see how they react. Citing two ubernerds as a omen for a forthcoming shift by mac users to linux involves a certain disconnect from reality.

Re:unlikely (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652635)

Installing EasyUbuntu fixes all of that easily.

Re:unlikely (1)

TheGavster (774657) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652664)

I haven't had an issue playing anything other than proprietary MS or Apple formats under Linux since I switched a year ago. While there was a time at which sound under Linux was touchy, it's now a standard thing to have working automagically.

Re:unlikely (4, Insightful)

Poppler (822173) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652731)

Try telling the average computer user that .mp3's, aac's, or any other proprietary media format won't play out of the box and see how they react.


If installing Automatix [ubuntuforums.org] or Easyubuntu [freecontrib.org] is too hard for this hypothetical "average computer user", they're probably not going to be the one installing the OS.

Re:unlikely (1)

HavokDevNull (99801) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652732)

Then explain to them why!!! We need to explain to people why this is and the ramifications of patent law. The more people educated about this the more chance something will be done about it! This goes far and beyond the normal OS flame war! Stop being part of the problem; think things through and help instead of spouting off flamebait.

Their reason for switching (5, Informative)

Millenniumman (924859) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652587)

Their reasons for switching are proprietary file formats and DRM. The main issue with proprietary file formats is the iTunes library file, which has an XML file that mirrors it. Apple uses some proprietary formats, but is that any worse than an open format no one has heard of that has no support or documentation. Apple supports most of the important file formats. No one has to deal with the DRM. In Linux, you can't use anything with it.

Back when I was your age... (0, Redundant)

DesertWolf0132 (718296) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652595)

Actually I am only 27 but I feel old since my first two computers had chips developed near the time of my birth. I started out on an Apple IIe. Then went to an 8088. I used Winblows PC's until Mandrake 9, then moved to Slack 10 and now run FC5. Side by side with my Slack 10 box was an OS X eMac which I have to say I loved. Now all this Unbutu Linux talk intrigues me and I might slap a copy on my old beater box and play around with it.

Re:Back when I was your age... (1, Interesting)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652699)

I' ve never been a Mac user before, but...

I run Ubuntu (and Suse on another box) as my main machine. I have VMWare installed, just in case I need to run a Windows program, although that's very rare.

Well, clicking around various links one day, I came upon a torrent link of an OS X 10.4 image to run in VMWare. I thought "Cool! I can try out OS X and see what all the hype is about." Initially I couldn't get wireless networking to work, but I found a fix through one of Maxxuss' patches. I still can't get sound working, but for my purposes, that's OK.

So, I can poke around and play around with OS X now. Guess what? It's OK. But I still end up doing all my real productive stuff under Ubuntu.

I wonder if I had only known Windows and tried this, would have the same impression?

Apple has it coming (3, Interesting)

T.Hobbes (101603) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652596)

MacOS is becoming less refined with every release. The UI changes every time, behavior that was sensible and elegant from the Classic days is being forgotten (try this: open a Finder window, put another app's window over top of it, and then put a new finder window over the app's window. Switch back into the Finder. Close the top Finder window. What should happen? What does happen?*). Simple things, like making the list view (or icon view or column view) standard in all Finder windows is all but impossible. And Apple insists on putting marketing crap (eg iDisk) throughout the system. MacOS isn't what it used to be; I pine for the old days!

* What should happen is that the app's window comes into the foreground; what does happen is that the 2nd Finder window comes into the foreground

Re:Apple has it coming (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652640)

try this: open a Finder window, put another app's window over top of it, and then put a new finder window over the app's window. Switch back into the Finder. Close the top Finder window. What should happen?

You end up with a finder window in the foreground.

What does happen?

You end up with a finder window in the foreground.

Re:Apple has it coming (5, Funny)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652691)

No, no, you don't get it.

The original Macintosh was the UI Bible, 1984 King Steve Version, the only version which can claim to be divinely inspired. All other UIs are apostate.

Re:Apple has it coming (1)

Millenniumman (924859) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652683)

put a new finder window over the app's window. Switch back into the Finder.

You have to switch back into the Finder to add a new Finder window. From reading further, I understand what you mean, but neither result is by definition better. What if your window is on top of two of two different applications that do not overlap? Which one do you switch to?

Re:Apple has it coming (4, Insightful)

ZorbaTHut (126196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652693)

The difference is whether you consider each application to be its own layer, and not homogenous with other applications, or whether you consider each window to be its own layer, possibly interlacing different applications.

I personally prefer the window-layer approach, so I'd agree that this is not the desired behavior, but I don't know what the public in general would expect. In any case, don't expect to get a bunch of replies agreeing with you - as I write this you've already got one person disagreeing. What you have here isn't a Correct Semantics question. It's a Preferred Semantics question.

Re:Apple has it coming (1)

flooey (695860) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652760)

The difference is whether you consider each application to be its own layer, and not homogenous with other applications, or whether you consider each window to be its own layer, possibly interlacing different applications.

My personal annoyance with the OS X windowing system (as an OS X user) is that Apple can't appear to decide which is which. In Windows, if you click on the window of an application that uses MDI, every window associated with it pops to the front. In OS X, only the window you clicked on does. However, if you Command-Tab over to an application, every window pops forward, and as the grandparent mentioned, closing one window pops the next one forward, possibly through other windows. I don't particularly care if they decide that you're looking at a stack of windows or a stack of applications, but one way or the other, I'd like it to be consistant.

Re:Apple has it coming (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652728)

Apple is also shipping all their Intel-based Macs crippled [blogspot.com] with Trusted Computing hardware DRM... essentially, a Big Brother chip. [cam.ac.uk] . As with all the companies sneakily trying to get this nastiness into their product lines, they desperately don't want to talk about it. Apple fans, naturally, don't want to either.

Make them.

Re:Apple has it coming (2, Interesting)

Logic Bomb (122875) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652738)

The Finder's well-known to be almost total crap. However, so is your example. It's not even possible! In OS X, you can't manually layer the windows of different applications because bringing any of an application's windows to the foreground will bring the entire application forward. (I think iChat behaves differently under some circumstances, but that appears to be bug.)

The third step of your example is to "put a new finder window over the app's window". In doing that, you've already switched back to the Finder, bringing all of its windows forward. If you close the top-most window, of course the second Finder window will be on top. That's how it works.

I can't imagine where you got the idea that it should work any differently.

Re:Apple has it coming (4, Insightful)

agent dero (680753) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652765)

How in the hell was this modded up?

MacOS is becoming less refined with every release. The UI changes every time, behavior that was sensible and elegant from the Classic days is being forgotten

You're right, so switching to a GNOME-based distro, that's fine, if that's your cup of team. What about when you want to run a Qt based application? You've got two different looking widget sets competing and distorting the entire view of things. What about openGL (if you can get it running properly)?

Simple things, like making the list view (or icon view or column view) standard in all Finder windows is all but impossible

Again, you're right, because you can't change the Finder preferences (it's only Apple+, like in any other Mac app) or change the View options (Apple+J in finder) to apply to all windows.

Mac OS X isn't perfect, i've got about 10 open bugs at bugreport.apple.com, but you've absolutely lost your mind to think that things aren't amazingly better than they used to. I remember a time when simple Finder operations would lock up my System 7 machine. Stop spreading FUD, file bug reports; as much as I love bitching on Slashdot. Apple doesn't read slashdot, and they're the ones with the power to change things.

Re:Apple has it coming (2, Interesting)

prockcore (543967) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652766)

MacOS is becoming less refined with every release.


No kidding. Here's a simple example:

Click and hold on an icon in the dock. What happens? The Context-Sensitive menu opens.

Now click and hold on an icon on the desktop. What happens? NOTHING.

This story should be modded -1... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652598)

This story should be modded -1 for WHO GIVES A FLYING SHIT and/or WHY DOES THIS MATTER?

In other news, this nerd switched from Levis to Bugle Boy jeans today, story about the demis of Levis at 10.

Ye 'ol canary smell. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652610)

"Nerds are a small demographic, but they can also be the canary in the coal mine with stuff like this.'"

Yup. Just look at how they "smelled" Y2K (or MS) before it was too late.

FUD much? (1)

Virak (897071) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652613)

I love Ubuntu; in fact, I use it exclusively on my PC, and have for over a year now. And while it'd be nice to see Ubuntu take over the OS market, I don't think TWO FUCKING PEOPLE switching over from OS X means it's going to happen any time soon.

Switching from Ubuntu to OS X (2, Insightful)

nemexi (786227) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652615)

I have been using Ubuntu for about a year and have now, after purchasing a MacBook, switched to OS X. And I'm quite happy with it so far. I guess Apple's customer base is changing at the moment -- as Macs become more popular with the my-ipod-needs-a-companion crowd, Apple might lose some of its earlier users. That said it _would_ be a smart move by Apple to listen to people like Mark Pilgrim and be more transparent with regard to file formats.

Re:Switching from Ubuntu to OS X (1)

orson_of_fort_worth (871181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652677)

Sounds like we just need to find one more Ubuntu to Mac OS X switcher and, since the switchers will cancel each other out, this article will cease to exist.

Defend the flank? not from a pinprick (3, Insightful)

DeadPrez (129998) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652619)

I think Mac needs to be solely focused on 'switchers' (Windows to Mac) and getting major "Windows only" programs working under the most efficient and stable method running natively on Intel chipsets allows. Microsoft is tripping over themselves right now and Apple is positioned to capitalize if they move quickly and compete on price (and number of standard mouse buttons :)

WOW! (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652624)

Wow! 2 users switch from Mac to Linux. I bet Apple are shitting themselves.

Re:WOW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652751)

Dorkshit, 2 people is an increase over 0 from the month before. You know what kind of percent increase that is? Its a mutha-fuckin divide by zero infinite percent increase, that's what.

canaries (2, Funny)

pyrrho (167252) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652625)

so Ubuntu is expected to KILL them?!!?

Re:canaries (1)

rolfc (842110) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652712)

Ubuntu has already killed Apple, they are just twisting

Re:canaries (3, Funny)

flooey (695860) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652778)

so Ubuntu is expected to KILL them?!!?

So you're saying the subject should have been "Ubuntu: OS X-killer?"

Lifelong nerds (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652626)

I've already seen several comments saying that this is no big deal, obviously thinking that these people only 'recently' switched to Macs. But that isn't the case.
Mark Pilgrim has been a Mac user since 1983 [diveintomark.org] . Cory Doctorow since 1984. These people have lived and breathed Macs - and they're now giving up on them, and not just for a whim, but in very well-thought out and carefully explained reasons. You might not agree with them, but at the least do them to justice of reading and considering their thoughts and not dismissing them out of hand.
(And for example Tim Bray is another long-standing Mac using visionary [tbray.org] who's recognized that open data is more important than all the very good reasons why staying with a Mac is the easier choice.)

The market apple could lose: nerds with time (5, Informative)

kwerle (39371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652629)

I installed ubuntu on a PC a couple of months ago. It took me about a day to get the graphics system to work on the machine (X11 - text was fine). And by work, I mean "display at all." I never got the res out of it that I wanted. And once I had some graphics up, I tried to do anything else, and was misserable.

I cut my teeth on linux back in the .8 and .9 days; I stuck with NeXTSTEP. I revisited back in the late 90's; I stuck with OpenStep. I revisited it around 2000, when MacOS was very much in transition; I stuck with OpenStep and/on Windows. (though my servers were FreeBSD during the 90's and early oughts') And now I've taken a look in '06; I'm still going to stick with OSX (which is now my server).

It's not there yet. Everything I do on *nix other than OSX feels like pulling teeth. I'll continue to use this expensive OS ($600 machines and $100 OS upgrades every 2 years) for some time, I guess. And while I do, I'll continue to submit bugs and toss a line or 2 of code at various Open Source code/systems I use.

I have stuff to do, and I don't care to muss with the kernel and video drivers. If you don't have stuff to do, or you DO want to muss with kernels/vid drivers - go for some flavor if linux.

The market apple could gain: the clueless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652696)

27 installs of Kubuntu in the past 12 months, the ovewhelming majority of them senior citizens.
Only 4 new boxes, the rest where computers that were less than 4 years and had problems with one onboard graphics card.
Im not Linux genius but my sample size is bigger that yours, so I win.

Going the other direction (5, Interesting)

thephotoman (791574) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652633)

Recently, I've made the opposite migration (from Ubuntu to Mac OS X). Now, while I love Ubuntu, and continue to use it on my desktop, I must say that Mac OS X has a lot going for it. There's nothing really wrong with the platform inherently. However, given the particular people in question, Ubuntu seems better suited for their needs than OS X does. Furthermore, with the latest release, things are quite easy to use on most hardware sold for Windows. Of course, the reason I removed Ubuntu from my MacBook is because I'm familiar with GRUB, which doesn't work on EFI. Perhaps I'll dual-boot the MacBook again when they've had time to work out that particular issue. I'd like to have an Ubuntu environment on here that isn't emulated over Parallels, too.

So honestly, between Ubuntu and OS X, to me, it's an even trade, based on what one needs. If you're doing heavy programming, Ubuntu is the place to be. However, if you're looking for a simple user-oriented Unix-like system, Mac OS X is just fine.

Another similar story at O'Reilly (1)

linuxbaby (124641) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652638)

Another interesting point of view of this is at this article:
Switching Back to Desktop Linux [linuxdevcenter.com] , by chromatic, the technical editor of the O'Reilly Network.

Some people will likely say "But you have to spend so much time tweaking Linux to get it the way you want!" To that I respond that I don't even have the option of tweaking Mac OS X to work the way I want. /blockquote.

Re:Another similar story at O'Reilly (1)

LocoMan (744414) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652723)

I don't think that would affect mac at all. It's natural that more "geeky" people tend to flock towards linux because it is a very geek friendly enviroment to be, where tweaking and hacking at it isn't not only not discouraged, but required. Mac on the other hand are more focused on the "take it out of the box, plug it in and it works" kind of people... and can't say I blame them, since they make a huge percentage of the computer users.. :)

Count me in. (4, Interesting)

greenguy (162630) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652642)

As a long-time Macophile, I played with Linux for years and was never completely happy with it until recently (read: until I installed Ubuntu). I've always had a Mac around as a back-up, but for the last several months, I find myself using it less and less, and getting frustrated with it more and more. The final straw was when I couldn't get the FreeNX client to work on it so I could use Linux on my nice, big flatscreen iMac. Now the only thing standing between me and putting Ubuntu on the iMac is a lack of free time.

On an off-topic note, it appears to be my Mac background that makes me like Gnome. KDE feels too much like Windows. Cue flames!

Doctrow Switched? (0)

tb3 (313150) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652654)

Apple must be doing something right!

Seriously, that guy's as much of a techie as my great aunt Maude. He wouldn't know tech if it bit him in the face. See Open Cola [wikipedia.org] for example.

Ubuntu? sounds like a loser.. (-1, Flamebait)

BadassJesus (939844) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652657)

Unbu** Ubu**?%#@? How can I pronounce that ? Ubuntu.com ??.. so they even have their own domain.. lets see if they own trademark for it... oh!

UBUNTU (LIVE) Owner (APPLICANT) Canonical Limited COMPANY ISLE OF MAN

wow!, so some dude create offshore Isle Of Man company to cover this shaggy "operation" or maybe this is genuine effort, fuck, they own commercial federal US trademark!!!! thats insulting man, considering this should be as "free" as in beer, "open source" right?..no one does anything for free at the end of the day...

check out the website... oh yeah, typical loser website... wow, they even surrendered their source code... omg [[ sudden idea came ]] I COULD CREATE MY OWN distro with a smarter name, create corporation and go public to harbor some capital from dumb venture capitalists.. hell yeah, like those monkeys at SCOX LNUX RHAT did. Anyway, I feel sorry this is not publicly traded so could have shorted this pig for major gain.

Re:Ubuntu? sounds like a loser.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652690)

You're either the worst troll ever or you're a total fucking idiot.

Re:Ubuntu? sounds like a loser.. (1)

rolfc (842110) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652741)

A loser, he is a loser ;)

pish posh, 2 == representative sample? (1)

hedley (8715) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652665)

I just bought a MBP core duo. The new parallels sw is a VMclone and makes it easy to run other OS's. So, you get the stability of OS X and put MrBill in a sandbox. Also you can run your beloved Ubuntu if the need is there.

But wait... I must be missing something and better sell it, run for the hills and buy something else!

Hedley

I switched the other way (2)

Adnans (2862) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652671)

Not really, since I'm still using Ubuntu on other laptop (and in Parallels [parallels.com] on OSX for testing) and will always be using it as the main server deployment platform. There's simply nothing better than apt + Ubuntu! I was just in the market for a new laptop and the Macbook Pro [railsguru.com] has been nothing but phenomenal. The Xorg guys should catch up to the Quartz graphics in a couple of months and hopefully GNOME/etc will start incorporating the new GL based capabilities creatively and productively.. cuz the OSX desktop experience is the one to beat!!

-adnans

Somehow, I don't think Apple shold be trembling... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652672)

The last time I tried I still had to deal with the command line to get my goddam wireless network card to work. You can take care of some simple things in Gnome or KDE (knoppix uses KDE, right?) but chances are you'll still be fucking around in the shell prompt bullshit. I know distros like Ubuntu are all ultra-easy to install but as long as I still need to use the command line to take care of the critical components of the OS I will avoid linux like the plague. I don't memorize commands, I don't sit around and fucking memorize the goddam options and I know that GREP is candy but I don't give a shit. It's 2006. Fuck command line interfaces. I don't need mega control over my OS. I load it up, I watch porn, I shut it off.

Re:Somehow, I don't think Apple shold be trembling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652755)

Ubuntu has a nice gui for setting up your wireless nic. Very simple to use.

Even fanboys eventually get tired (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15652684)


Overpriced hardware (Apple) is just as bad as overpriced software (Microsoft).

One the other had, you can't loose running Free software on Industry Standard (i.e., cheap) hardware. Makes perfect sense, unless you want to make Steve Jobs another $850M [yahoo.com] .

Since when? (5, Insightful)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652686)

Since when have nerds been a "canary in a coal mine" for any kind of technology? Nerds that I know have been into : laserdisk, betamax, etc. Nerds have been into Linux for a long time, and it still hasn't taken off. I'd say that what nerds choose in terms of consuming is generally the exact opposite of what the general public does.

reverse switcher (1)

nostriluu (138310) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652697)


I just switched from Linux to MacOS. So it's actually only +1 switch to Linux.

Actually I've been running Linux for over a decade and will be triple booting windows/macos/linux. The lack of a core package manager in MacOS, Apple's poor cousin attitude about open source, and my familiarity with Linux are going to prevent more than casual use of OS X. And I have to tell you I'm struck by how complicated OS X is, with the bizarre keystrokes to get everyday things done.

What I find funny in all this is people switching from MacOS to Gnome. Sorry, Gnome is as frustratingly bad as Windows or MacOS in dumbing things down. Any OS that hides the terminal (shell), which a lot of people use, in "utilities" is pretty much the same. I'd have a lot more understanding for these people if they'd switched to a closer to the metal window manager.

Most users aren't ideological (4, Insightful)

Logic Bomb (122875) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652700)

Both of these guys switched because they decided that open file formats are their top priority. Neither switched for any of the things most users care about. (It's also worth noting that most of the file formats Apple uses are industry-standard, like PNG, vCard, and PDF. It's a handful of things like the iPhoto library database and iCal's weird calendar files that seem to bug these guys.) Yes, the opinions of the techno-elite are important and Apple should take their concerns to heart. But this has nothing to do with Apple's pursuit of the larger computing market. Unless these guys start recommending Ubuntu (or some other Linux) over Apple to non-techies, it doesn't hurt Apple's sales.

Re:Most users aren't ideological (2, Informative)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652749)

Yeah, and I have to say, I don't really get that. I like and use OS X, but don't really care for iPhoto or iCal, and don't use them. I'm not sure why I would be inclined to switch from OS X just because of how iPhoto or iCal operate. Frankly, even if something happened with iTunes (an app I do use) that bugged me, I'd probably just find an alternative mp3 player/library manager, rather than switch platforms.

I switched off ubuntu (4, Interesting)

hfastedge (542013) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652718)

I ran linux at home for over 6 years. On desktops and laptops.

First, linux requires so much configuration on laptops. Neither debian nor ubuntu could support acpi (aka SLEEP) on my laptop. CD-ROM support was annoying as I switched from kernel 2.4-2.6. I had to recompile the kernel so many times and I could never get acpi to work (not even dell supported it, just some hacker in france that never replied to my email bug report). Other annoying things: getting vpn through a windows PPTP server will take you a long as time.

Linux is a great thing for a desktop though, the hardware is pretty standard and theres less things to worry about.

Linux is best for a server, and best for a beginning sysadmin to run at home to learn more about the operating system that is run at work.

And while I will probably buy a macbook for my next computer, I hope to have the resources to also get a windows vista to play around with.
I really like desktop machines that just work in most cases. I've been running windows xp on my dell laptop for a few months now, and while its not ideal, at least i get easy vpn access, the ability to turn off zeroconf to get my intel wifi card working,although i do miss being able to simply edit my crontab to give me a streaming radio alarm clock that goes off at different times during the week.

Mac still has its advantages (1)

a_greer2005 (863926) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652721)

Comercial tools like Adobe CS, MS Office (OOo is good, but PHBs want the real thing if you use it for work) iTunes and iPod officially supported...Ubuntu is great but it isnt going to get a lot of total conversions, it will be co-used if at all by Mac users...

A Matter of Time (2, Interesting)

simpl3x (238301) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652724)

Isn't it really a matter of time before companies such as Adobe recognize that creating a distribution or partnering, and developing a single application port is more cost effective than a Mac and Windows app? I'm a Mac user and a designer, and have to say that the state of the Mac isn't all that great. Linux is ultimately going to move up scale.

The other aspect of this discussion is tools. Increasingly, they are web based. Aren't we really witnessing the beginning of the end for the all-purpose OS? Most of what I do is not related to an OS. I use tools and communicate. How this is accomplished matters little.

Also, most application interfaces suck beyond comprehension. Adobe's various interfaces don't sync between applications. Others, such as Maya, are so radically different from the underlying OS that it is essentially like running a different OS. So why not create one?

not without media production apps (1)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652726)

Untill Ubuntu has good media production apps for music and video it won't tak over Apple's core market of creative professionals. The open-source apps have come a long way but they are still not competition for most sound and video suites (and apple owns two of the best, final cut and logic audio).

However for everything else, ubuntu is serious competition.

First I'll try Ubuntu on my MBP (1, Interesting)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652734)

I'll try it in Parallels first, which I paid $30 for just to be able to do this exact thing....

Then after finding out that I'm not missing anything (does Ubuntu have thousands of Games I'm not aware of, hundreds of Pro quality apps, tens of document formats unique to it???)... I'll turn off Parallels and go back to using my Mac w/ OS X.

Now OTOH if I was a poor developer who really needed a good development system w/ a free OS on relatively cheap hardware, well I'd probably be all up in Ubuntu's @SS looking for heaven or some x86 compatible version of it.

As it is, I already make a ton of money and can afford a sweet MBP w/ 30in. HD display to dock it with for doing real work... with added bonus of mobility to Diedrich's free Wi-Fi to get Iced Coffee for a good /. reading fest on a 'working-from-home' day like today.

Why switch? (1)

Xymor (943922) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652736)

I fail to see how ubuntu is revolutionary in the desktop linux area. I mean, there are several good distributions, remarkably the latest SuSe, but also Mandriva and Fedora, that are well suited for desktop users. I mean I've installed mandriva in several new machines in my job and 90% of users, the ones that click in the blue E to "use the internet", the yellow flash to listen to music, the 2 green dummies to access MSN and the paper with an "W" to use the word processor can't tell the difference.(My mon included) Of cource, as long as those icons are familiar, in usual places and there's solitaire under Programs > Games.

In related news.... (1, Offtopic)

ericdano (113424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652753)

In related news, a number of Slashdot readers have recently switched to DIGG.

Really, how is this news? I know it's a slow news day, but really.......Couldn't we talk about that asteroid that came really close to the Earth instead?

I tried to switch, but... (5, Interesting)

mad.frog (525085) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652782)

So Ubuntu 6 got all the great buzz, so I grabbed a copy and installed it on a spare Windows box I had.

Gee, I think, this looks pretty good. Finally some attention to nice graphic detail. A good installer. Software install that includes "blessed" prebuilt exes.

But then the rough edges showed up again.

First... this is an nForce2 machine with built-in video, and the default config refused to let me select a screen-res larger than 1024x768. I know, the nerds out there are saying "just edit your x config file", right? OK, but here's the thing:

(1) that's an INEXCUSABLY STUPID AND LAZY way to design operating system software
(2) it's too easy to screw up your x config file and break x (and by "too easy" I mean "remotely possible")

Second... I discovered that the oh-so-lovely disk partitioner has the added feature that on some systems (including mine) it borks the MBR of the resized Windows partition in such a way that Windows will refuse to boot. Even after uninstalling Ubuntu. And even after applying various fixes via UBCD and friends. (Right now this system is sitting disconnected under my desk because I refuse to reinstall Ubuntu, but reinstalling Windows is a horrible half-day affair on its own...)

Look, I know I'm gonna get flamed and burn karma for this, but the whole point is that for a system that I want to use mainly for surfing the web and playing games, it has to Just Work.

Not "mostly work with some crap I have to hand edit", it has to be freakin' bulletproof against a stupid user who neither knows nor cares that "sudo gedit foo" is required for some otherwise-seemingly-trivial configuration options.

No, this is not an apology for Windows, whose install and configuration is a nightmare of its own, but when you're the underdog, you can't just play catch-up, and you can't make boneheaded mistakes like those listed above.

Doesn't make sense to me... (4, Insightful)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 8 years ago | (#15652818)

Linux and Mac are, in many ways, complete opposites. I'm surprised that people would switch between them.

The Linux desktop (Ubuntu in this case) is free. It is flexible and is appealling technically and politically, but is quite rough and not ready for the average consumer. It is particularly strong in corporate, third world, and limited use, environments.

OS X is the opposite. It is high margin, high sytle, and slick. It is perfect for the brand-concious, reasonably wealthy, consumer who wants everything to work together easily.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?