Jeff Minter on Sony's Arrogance 200
Regular Edge columnist Jeff Minter has lashed out at Sony over what he perceives as incredible arrogance on the console-maker's part. From the BBC article: "Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge, said: 'They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.'"
Paying for Potential (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, I'd rather pay for reality, in the form of real hardware, real games, and real fun.
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:3, Insightful)
Real games and Real fun are up to developers. Sure Microsoft support for devs is better, so this could mean better games, but it isn't a contingency. Let's see how supportive Sony will be to the homebrew comunity and developers in general to decide if the ps3 is worth the extra development costs and if games are good enough for consumers.
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
That $600 will be tied to the console -- sink or swim.
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:1)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
just made me chuckle a bit the juxtaposition.
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Reality is how we define it. However, I do believe that bits, in the form of games, have much more reality than promises and ideas about future bits.
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Re:Paying for Potential (Score:2)
Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:2)
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:4, Informative)
Sony barely got more than half when fighting the N64. I wouldn't call it "Absolutely Dominated." They won, but not by that much.
Hey, I've got an idea: why don't you just make shit up? Or, here's a better idea: you could actually look it up.
Here's what Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] has to say on the subject:
Sega Saturn: 9.26 Million (Japan: 5.74, Other: 3.52)
Nintendo 64: 32.93 Million (Japan: 5.54, The Americas: 20.63, Other Regions: 6.75)
PlayStation: 102.49 Million as of March 31, 2005 (Japan: 21.59, USA: 40.78, Europe: 40.12) including 28.15 Million "PS one" units (Japan: 4.19, USA: 12.7, Europe: 11.26)
In other words, the Playstation more than tripled the N64's sales. When you sell three times as many units as your closest competitor, I don't think it's unreasonable to call it "Absolutely Dominating."
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:2)
i demand you adjust your figures immediatly providing the sales data for the ps2 that corresponds to the same timeframe as the other 2 consoles shared time period (since the saturn didnt last as long as the N64)
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:4, Insightful)
Good salesmanship and business starts with respecting your customers, Sony's attitude suggests they see their customers as sheep incapable of saying No! even though the product placed before them is overpriced, overhyped and underwhelming.
Nintendo will be one of the winners of this next round of console wars, simply on the basis that they tend towards modesty and don't come off like such fucking jerks.
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:2)
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:2)
Eventually, when it comes down to it people have to gauge the publics reaction somehow. I read a lot of gaming sites, and talk to a lot of people about gaming as it's a favourite subject of mine and my friends. It seems to be the general opinion that Sony has overstepped t
Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:3, Interesting)
They may be right... (Score:1)
I wont buy Sony (Score:2, Interesting)
PS3, suck it down bitches!!
Viao, suck it down bitches!!!
Re:I wont buy Sony (Score:5, Interesting)
Sony is big because they have a reputation for making quality products. Whether or not they deserve that is up for debate but when they do get something right they tend to nail it. Sony went from a distant 10th in LCD marketshare to #1 in 2 years with the Bravia line. The Playstation and the PS2 have totally dominated the console space for the last decade. If I ran a company that had sold 200 million systems and 2 billion games in the last decade I'd be pretty proud of myself too.
The problem right now is that since the games aren't ready to look at the PS3 mindspace is basically a giant echo chamber so the loudest shouter gets the most attention completely independat of the quality of their message.
Re:I wont buy Sony (Score:3, Insightful)
Problem: Sony is not doing now what it was doing before it became big. Isn't the definition of insanity doing two completely different things and expecting the same result?
Re:I wont buy Sony (Score:2)
Re:I wont buy Sony (Score:1, Flamebait)
Thank you for choosing Sony. Your Sony Vaio is designed for maximum durability. However, do not put pressure on the system, as this may cause LCD damage. Thank you.
Translation: Your Vaio is very, very easy to break. Thank you for choosing Sony.
Sony's assumption (Score:2, Insightful)
That is exactly what they're saying. The thing is, they may be right. I really don't see the 360 picking up a lot of ground in Japan, especially if Final Fantasy remains PS exclusive. It remains to be seen how much marketshare Nintendo can pick up in any region, since it's reall
Conflict of Interest (Score:4, Insightful)
You might want to bear that small fact in mind...
Re:Conflict of Interest (Score:2)
Still waiting for PC and Pocket PC to tank... [llamasoft.co.uk]
That's What I See (Score:5, Interesting)
I see this generation as pure arrogance. I thought the $400 price of a 360 stupid. But asking either $500 or $600 for a console is just insane. They aren't even offering anything great. The videos I've seen of the PS3 games look like 360 games. The interface is basically the same as the analog controller introduced during the PS1 life-cycle. They have basically NOTHING to justify the cost in my eyes. Those have no large line-up of killer games. Heck, I've yet to see a game that really makes me take notice. Some (Assassin's Creed) seem interesting, but many of those (like it seems Assassin's Creed) won't be exclusive.
I bought a PS2 on launch due to "good will" with Sony. I knew they would come through. They did... but it took a long time. My PS2 has probably seen more use as a DVD player than a PS2 (thanks, mostly, to Netflix and TV show DVDs).
I bought a PSP on launch due to "good will" but I now regret that. There have been basically 3 games for it that I found that I like. Burnout (beat it, tired of it), Hot Shots (beat it, tired of it), and Lumines (I've spent so many hours on it, I'm tired of it). At this point in the console's life, I expected to have liked more than 3 games. And you know what's coming up that I'm looking forward to? Lumines 2, and that's just "more of the same" so I probably won't even get it. What a waste of my money. The DS was slow to start but after about 6 months it took off flying with great games.
They lost all their gaming good will. They would have a half-decent chance at $300. At $400 getting me to buy one would be a real stretch. At $500 it is a wait and see approach. At their $600 price, it's a wait and see what hits the used market 2 years later to see if it would be near my price point.
So far, only Nintendo has announced games that I consider "must haves". It's it so odd that that keeps happening every generation? The PS2 had some, the XBox had one or two (Jet Grind Radio Future and Shenmue II). The 360 and PS3 are currently lacking such titles. I have a list of about 6 for the Wii.
Re:That's What I See (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:That's What I See (Score:2)
Re:That's What I See (Score:2)
If even such dedicated gamers like the author of the post are not willing to pay for the new PS then they are in real trouble.
To us much more casual gamers the high price and low expected features will be even more of a deterrent!
To be honest I don't mind Sony getting negative press since we should all still remember their CD-rootkits. (which is yet another reason to not buy anything they make!)
Re:That's What I See (Score:2)
Frankly, I have quite a bit of good will towards Sony. My family buys most all of our consumer electronics from Sony because we've had a very good history with them. Most all of our TVs, my home theater receiver and speakers, our DVD players, our VCRs, etc.
I bought a PS based on the Sony name to a large degree. They had some good looking games, but it was still a bit of a risk. I didn't have any qualms. I didn't have any qualms about the PS2. I had a few qualms about the PSP (not enough, as it turned out).
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
I assume this is in refrence to backward compatiablity. I have to ask, what is making you throw out your old hardware?
Re:This is What I See (Score:1, Troll)
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
Er...
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
What I don't get is why does it matter whether the 360 is playing the old games "natively" at all? They look and behave identically to the same game on the Xbox, whether or not it's emulated.
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
Lack of space?
Finite number of inputs into my TV?
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
I found it easier to just sell the damn things, in the long run, They took up space, the cables were an eyesore no matter what I did, I got tired of swapping the inputs on my switcher... and I realized I was tired of most of the games I had, with little desire to get new ones.
Re:This is What I See (Score:2)
It's all about the price (Score:2)
The combination of late to market, higher price, and harder to develop for is a killer combo.
So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, no, I'll be buying it to play the games.
What amazes me is that an expensive console is nothing new. The Playstation was almost twice the cost of the next dearest console. The Playstation 2 was also the most expensive console from that generation. I bought both of them. Approximatedly 100 million people bought the damn things. Obviously cost isn't that important an issue.
So what is the important issue? The games, of course. There are games on the PS3 that won't exist on other consoles. I'll be buying the console to play the games. I don't buy it because it's "new". In fact, I'm most likely to wait for the first price drop because there will be too few compelling launch titles.
And what's this about price?
I don't care! That's not an issue. It might have been an issue back when I was a teenager and had to beg my parents for money, but I have a job now and I can afford to buy things. The cost of a PS3 pales in comparison to the cost of running my car. My "video game habit" is still an order of magnitude cheaper than the booze and cigarette habit that infects 99% of the population.
These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
He said the price would not be a big hurdle, he never said there would not be a better deal in town.
And he is right. The targeted population is the one with HDTVs, the fringe that bought Home theater setups for $3k-5k. The $600 of the hardware wont sca
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:5, Funny)
Gosh, I like all three of those things- at once. I suppose I'm fucked.
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:3, Insightful)
Given. There will undoubtedly also be games like this for the 360 and Wii (especially the Wii.) The question is, will those games be fun enough to justify the costs, especially when compared to the 360's excellent online infrastructure and Wii's new controller, which are going to be delivering cutting edge experiences?
It seems to me like Sony is relying too heavily on franchises which had very bad installments on their previous generation
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:2)
Read this [dict.org].
I hope that helps.
The curse of Minter (Score:2, Funny)
That's it for Edge, then!
Re:The curse of Minter (Score:2)
Wait, There's more... (Score:1, Flamebait)
PS3 + PSP means so much more.... multiplayer gaming with the TV giving a birds eye view, and each players first person perspective on thier PSP. or using your PSP as a universal remote control. Being able to get your media collection streamed to your PSP (I do this now with TVersity(or try PSPITunes), but it's a pain to browse, subscribe to rss, close browser, open rss, list
Re:Wait, There's more... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony has very little potential. They're wrapping up all these buzzwords trying to impress us, when in actuality, half the stuff they promise doesn't exist yet, and the other half they'll promise and never deliver. The entire Sony gaming division must be stocked with the same people in charge of Vista. Cramming yesterday's technology into something high priced, and filling it with buzzwords most consumers don't care about. I don't care whether or not I'm paying $600 for 600 buzzwords. It's not new, it's not original, and for the most part, those features don't actually exist. Seriously... a DVR? You're talking about things that require connectors that aren't even on the PS3.
PSP as remote (Score:2)
The PSP has straight-up wireless so it would be easier to tie into a home network (correct me if I am wrong but the DS wireless is not quite standard, not to mention the hacking scene there does not seem as big).
One thing a PSP would give you is "Picture out of Picture" - you could stream one video feed while another was playing on the primary screen, perhaps warn you when it detected commercials wer
Just as remote (Score:2)
Or maybe, if you trust Sony so much, upgrade fw to 2.7, then try again. They may have added extra "functionality"
Oh, I forgot, newer firmware versions may further prevent any useful application from running...
No, that is not an issue for me because I would only use it as a remote and not for games - so I could downgrade the firmware and run 1.5.
However I agree with the general slant of what you are saying that it's rather annoying that S
Re:Wait, There's more... (Score:1)
Sony never deliver on potential (Score:2)
The PS2 had USB. Think of the potential for hooking up a mouse and keyboard, or even a trackball and a graphics tablet, and playing strategy and adventure games that needed something other than a joystick for input. I had a keyboard plugged into my PS2, but the only thing I ever saw use it was Action Replay for entering game cheat codes.
The PS2 had a slot for a
Re:Sony never deliver on potential (Score:2)
But this had nothing whatsoever to do with Sony. Video games are hugely expensive to make, primarily because of content. Just making cheap development kits isn't any kind of magic bullet for that. If it were, then there would be free games for Linux of th
Re:Sony never deliver on potential (Score:2)
I would want a PS3, if it was a "computer" (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:2)
Too Pricey for Players, what about the Retailers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Every Wal*Mart, every Target, every Sears, every Fred Meyer, every EB-Games...
If I were in charge of electronics inventory for a major chain, I'd have to think long and hard... If they don't sell, will Sony reimburse? Should each store stock 10 Wii's 10 360's and 10 PS3's?, or 30 Wii's, 10 360's and 5 PS 3's?
Which would make the store more profit? 30 Wii's plus 1-3 games each, or 10 PS3's with 0-2 game each? (If it comes with Linux, many will not be used for retail games)
How many pre-orders will end up not being redeemed, because the customer can't afford it?
Spending $600 for a game console is one thing, but if you're the guy who bought $60,000,000 worth for your company, and only 50% of them sell, who's gonna get blamed for the lost $30,000,000?
But then, if you stock too few, and the competition gets all the sales profit...
Use the "zonked" tag, luke! (Score:2, Troll)
Not bothered, just like to point out bias (Score:2)
That message took me about a second to write. I have a lot more free time than that. Really I'm being far more charitable with time responding to you.
In fact, why do you care so much that you bothered even responding to your message? Why is that motivation any more valid than my original message?
A dangerous business spending your own time claiming someone else is wa
Smug? (Score:3, Funny)
UK video gaming stalwart Jeff Minter has criticised Sony for being "smug" about its PlayStation 3 console. Smug? Right now, Sony have more smug than a batallion of Priuses, driven by OS X users, all playing iPods and using Netwons!
Go, Yak, go!
Re:Smug? (Score:2)
Show me the Software! (Score:2)
The Wii has already demonstrated titles and thier controllers that has sparked the imagination of many a gamer. Not because they are the bigest fastest games on earth, but they seem like they'll be hella fun and refreshingly different. (some of those controller demo games look like they'd really appeal t
What, no rootkit comments? (Score:2)
Y'all are slipping
Re:... and? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not even starting with the other hundreds of Sony gaffes, a list of which would consume pages.
Re:... and? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:1)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Yeah - the price tag. And then they'll say "the total comes to how much?", look over, see how much the PS2 price has dropped since when they first bought it, and say "screw it, I'll wait a year until it's half the price."
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Ah, but what they won't say is "screw it, I'll get an Xbox 360 and/or a Wii instead."
Rob
Re:... and? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:... and? (Score:4, Interesting)
Wow, you haven't been paying attention - the more expensive version is supposed to have Linux pre-loaded on it from the factory.
Re:... and? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Usually, console makers protect their revenue stream by allowing only licensed software to run (for which the game makers pay license fees). If the PS3 comes with Linux pre-installed, this either means that
a) the price covers the real costs of the hardware. Which would explain that the PS3 is so expensive. Or
b) the pre-installed Linux is seriously crippled somehow, so game makers cannot use it as basis for competitive games without paying license fees to Sony.
Re:... and? (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe you missed the bulletin. The PS3 will be upgradeable. In the land of gaming, 'can be upgraded' is the same as 'must be upgraded.'
From http://news.spong.com/article/10210?cb=894 [spong.com]
Re:... and? (Score:2)
And as a console, it doesn't have anything compelling over the 360 or the Wii, or even the PS2, to justify that price.
Even with all that, I might be rushing to buy one if I had any faith left in Rootkit Sony at all. I'm sorry, did I say "Rootkit Sony"? I meant "Anti-homebrew Sony". Or maybe "crippled PS2 Linux for $200 Sony".
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:4, Insightful)
As for these mythical hordes of people slobbering to buy the PS3, I have yet to see them. Please direct me to them. Honestly, everyone I talk to sees the PS3 to be like pulling teeth, they want to avoid it for as long as possible. Most of us know that in the future we might break down and buy a PS3 once the number of good exclusive third party titles for it is too good to pass up and it has undergone a theoretical drop in price. Meanwhile, I want the Wii like no one's business and it will probably be the first console ever that I will stand in line to have at launch.
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Re:... and? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:... and? (Score:2)
Seriously, so far none of the consoles have shown me any reason to buy them. The PS3 is most likely to have the games I want to play. The 360 certainly doesn't have them, and the Wii might have 1, that I'd actually like to play.
Re:... and? (Score:2)
A bit!?! I just saw a Dell television commercial featuring a complete desktop computer (model B110 if I recall) for $299. What are folks (at least 'regular' people) going to think when mainstream computer setups are half the price of this new game console?
Re:Enough FUD (Score:1)
3 Articles a day that praise Nintendo probably
Re:Enough FUD (Score:2)
* Disclaimer: I work at a company that sells games online, this does not represent my company's opinion, etc
Re:Enough FUD (Score:2)
Nobody cares? Believe me, if nobody cared, there'd be no pageviews on the ads on these stories, and they would stop posting them. But no, what we actually have is plenty of clicks, and plenty of discussion, so I guess some people do care.
I do love a good 'FUCK YOU I HATE THIS BULLSHIT WEBSITE I'M GOING TO DIGG NOW' farewell post, though.
Re:Enough FUD (Score:2)
Heh. Don't let the ad words hit you on the ass on your way out!
Re:Following the Money---Anti-Sony ads paid for by (Score:2)