Opera Seeks Developer Input For Opera 10 387
taskforce writes "Opera Watch is reporting that the folks Opera Software are asking web developers for input on what they think the most important features are which could be added into the next version of the Opera desktop browser. Considering what has been added in Opera 9, what do you think would be most important for the browser from both a developer and a user standpoint?"
Extensions (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Extensions (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Extensions (Score:2)
An API for extentions would mean it can be made even leaner since you can effectively strip off functionality that is not used often and put it into an extension for those who need it. Result, even smaller browser.
So, did you hae any real reason for your response?
Re:Extensions (Score:2, Informative)
Opera is relatively fast but not the fastest
Compared to what? http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html [howtocreate.co.uk]
An API for extentions would mean it can be made even leaner since you can effectively strip off functionality that is not used often and put it into an extension for those who need it.
I'm curious what the point of that is though? The English install is 4.6MB, and you'll find this of interest: http://my.opera.com/FataL/blog/show.dml/298429 [opera.com]. If you ignore the multi-language installer, Opera's in
Re:Extensions (Score:5, Interesting)
It's worth pointing out that the person publishing those benchmarks is an Opera employee [howtocreate.co.uk]. Not that I think they are fabricated, but it's always good to know potential biases.
Re:Extensions (Score:2)
But does it even have that? I hate to sound like a troll (and God knows that's how I'll get modded)
Re:Extensions (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Extensions (Score:2, Informative)
http://operawiki.info/WebDevToolbar [operawiki.info]
Very useful.
Re:Extensions (Score:5, Informative)
* Goto Tools->Preferences->Advanced->Shortcuts.
* (Optional) Duplicate the current keyboard setup using the duplicate button.
* Edit the keyboard setup you want to change.
* Select the "application" entry in the list that appears and click the "New" Button
* Enter the keyboard shortcut to the left. For example: i ctrl shift alt
* To the right enter the following: Execute program, "iexplore.exe", "%u"
Now, whenever you click ctrl+shift+alt+i, internet explorer should launch using the current url as an argument.
Re:Extensions (Score:3, Insightful)
64bit support (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:64bit support (Score:2)
Phillip.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:64bit support (Score:2)
Yes, you can run 32-bit code in 64-bit mode (in x86_64 64-bit instructions need a REX prefix byte so they're actually not default!) but your 64-bit code has to be aware of what it is calling.
Tom
Re:64bit support (Score:2)
Re:64bit support (Score:2)
Re:64bit support /. consistent. (Score:2)
It's more like flash is often annoying (never stopping animations, sound, ...), sometimes extremely impractical (bizarre navigation) and too misused, therefore a damn fucking pain.
And the web DOES feel better without flash (e.g., with Flashblock installed).
Re:64bit support /. consistent. (Score:2)
Re:Better without Flash? No FJAX (Score:2)
Re:Better without Flash? No FJAX (Score:3, Informative)
Re:64bit support (Score:2)
Flash uses a x86 bit JIT runtime compiler, some of the underpinnings such as their garbage collections accomodate only 32 bit pointers.
Its no small task, but with the release of Windows 64 bit into main stream will help move things along.
My guess is you'll see a native 64 version realistically within 6 months, I know the Adobe engineers are working on it.
Niggling (Score:5, Informative)
The Linux support is awesome however. It's the best browser for that platform.
Re:Niggling (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Niggling (Score:2)
P.S. Right now I'm running Opera 9 in 1600x1200 and SMALL fonts (21" monitor and I sit close enough for roughly FOV90) and the top/bottom "wast
Re:Niggling (Score:2)
http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myfreaki
Re:Niggling (Score:3, Informative)
1. Put the status bar next to the address bar.
2. Use search shortcuts instead of the search bar. Typing 'g something' in the address bar will search for 'something' on google, while 'z something' will do the same for Amazon.
3. The progress bar can be toggled to show only when something is loaded, and you can even make it appear inside the address bar.
4. Instead of showing the tabs, you could use the window panel. You need to enable it by customizing the panels.
5. Ctrl-F8 will toggl
Re:Niggling (Score:2)
However, the big issue here for me is that the settings don't "stick"... I have to re-press all those combos each and every time I go from normal to full-screen... that would be a nice extra for O10 (sticky fulscreen options, or fullscreen options customisation just like with normal-screen ones)
Re:Niggling (Score:2)
But usually 1280x960 means I get a full quicklaunch bar, and that's only putting the "bare minimum" on it.
Re:Niggling (Score:2)
Opera gives you all the space you need! (scrensht) (Score:5, Informative)
> but even then it still usues way too much screen space for things other then the actual webpage.
WTF?! You do know that the sidebar "Panel" toggles on and off with F4, right? Requests ought to focus on stuff that isn't already in the browser and trivially available to users to configure, don't you think?
I'm sorry, but requesting more space for the web page is sort of insane, considering there's always full screen mode (F11). The difference between full screen and my current configuration is neglible. Here's a current full screen screenshot [gazonk.org] (~44KiB) of my setup. Explain what you want to disable and how that makes a real difference to your browsing experience.
Personally I'd like a special tab which would include all client-server exchanges, toggable to exclude content body/show as hexa, etc.
Re:Opera gives you all the space you need! (screns (Score:2)
Yes, so I leave it permanently off (in all browsers btw).
That was however not what I commented on with regards to the side panel. The statement was that it contains usefull information, well, maybe so, but as long as it does it takes away screel real estate. Of course when you turn it off, it doesn't take screenb estate. You did read the start of my post where I said I fiddled a few hours with this and other panels and that I am qu
Re:I find firefox more configurable (screenshot) (Score:3, Informative)
Sure you can turn everything off. That is no biggie. But when I have everything turned on, firefox gives me the edge in space and configurability allowing me to put buttons next to the "File, Edit, etc..." Menu. I recover one line this way and still have all the stuff I want on.
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/63200501.vAlG5XD r.operafox.png [pbase.com]
From a developper point of vue (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From a developper point of vue (Score:5, Interesting)
The parent's request for better AJAX debugging is another possibility certain to turn a number of web-dev heads. Few doubt AJAX's destiny. I for one would love to see this.
Additionally, I'd also like to request an option to specify how the middle-button responds to clicks for scrolling. Presently, and for prior versions, pressing the middle button to begin the hands-free scrolling feature snaps the cursor to the middle of the page. This becomes an issue when trying to open a page in a background tab with a middle click and, if the click is off by a little, the cursor shoots away, causing the user to move their cursor back to the link. A minor nuisance but one I've heard complained about for years.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:From a developper point of vue (Score:2)
I'd have to second a JavaScript debugger. I do almost all of my webdesign targeting Firefox first because it has the best debugging tools. Once I get it working in Firefox, I move to making sure it works in IE and later Opera.
However, I'd also like to see something like the DOM Inspector. Among other things the DOM Inspector allows is the ability to see the CSS rules and the order they're being applied for every node in the DOM tree. It really helps when CSS's crappy specificity causes rules to apply
Re:From a developper point of vue (Score:3, Informative)
If you want extensions go use firefox. The Opera developers do listen to input and if a feature is requested by enough people then they will add it. They also will take out features that people dislike/don't use. That is what I like the most about Opera, they make it the best browser available right out of the box. You don't have to go messing around downloading and installing extensions because it already includes the best features available that most people ne
Re:From a developper point of vue (Score:2)
Fiddler is not a javascript debugger, try Firefox + Firebug sometime.
Under Windows (Score:2, Interesting)
2. Under any OS: When opening a link into a new tab, it automagically pops the new tab up. I like the new tab under because I'm often going to A Page whereupon I click several
Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
2. Use the RMB and select "Open in background page" or hold CTRL and SHIFT when clicking a link.
3. Use opera:config (Opera 9)
Use the middle mouse button (scroll wheel) (Score:2, Informative)
Select "Open in background tab".
Yes, they could make this a bit easier to find.Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
I used to stick to Opera 7.xx exactly for that reason even when 8.xx came out.
Second thing, an "export/save environment" (key settings, WAND database, toolbar settings, bookmarks, color scheme, etc) and the companion "import/load environment".
If you can make it also automatically import all that from PREVIOUS versions of Opera, I have a nearly 4-year old Opera 7.52 that's itching for "upgrade" to Opera 9.
Yes, I still use both... 7.52 for
Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
Also, I had this nasty thing with hardware hickups (too heated, occasional resets on really hot days) one one of the machines, and one time Opera 9 just LOST all settings (literally all except bookmarks) and reverted to the default ones.
Bottom line is, I'd really like to be able to backup and mail myself (or lug around on a memstick) a full current environment config.
Re:Under Windows (Score:2)
I'm lazy, as most other "usual" users
I mean, you can always backup all files manually and re-copy where needed, but it's troublesome enough that I don't do it sometimes... then I end up regretting it (a lot less times, but still, you get the idea).
Probably not a vital nor a must-have feature...
But for sure, it would be a NICE feature for O-10 if you ask me
Combining HTTP w/ BitTorrent (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Combining HTTP w/ BitTorrent (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, the "challenge" would be to have a tracker that you can
Re:Combining HTTP w/ BitTorrent (Score:2)
Only afterwards can Opera (or any other browsers) do anything about it.
Still no Opera topic in Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Still no Opera topic in Slashdot (Score:2)
First of all, I would have to say Opera gets placed under the general software topic because it only gets mentioned every once in a while, so that's really just one reason. And not to flame, but I think Mozilla does deserve a category of their own for its current market precence, and because they produce a lot more than Firefox.
I like Opera a lot, and I think it has contributed greatly to browser history, bu
Re:Still no Opera topic in Slashdot (Score:2)
Adblock (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Adblock (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Adblock (Score:2)
So it has now what adblock started out with roughly.
There are very nice blocklists for adblock and ways to automatically import them, which means you won't get to see the ads without having to block them yourself.
Adblock also has some other nice features and all in all a content filter only covers part of what adblock does.
Re:Adblock (Score:5, Insightful)
I know you can do something like adblock with Opera, but it doesn't even compare with firefox's version.
What's missing? Right-click on the page, select "Block content", and the page gets greyed out, with the blockable items highlighted. Click on everything you want to block, and it automatically sets up wildcard rules to block those ads. That's easier than Firefox's Adblock.
Re:Adblock (Score:2)
Re:Adblock (Score:3, Informative)
Yes [operawiki.info]. You can get a pre-made filterlist here [yoyo.org].
Re:Adblock (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Adblock (Score:4, Insightful)
Blocking obtrusive ads is justified. Blocking any other ads is not. Did you ever stop to think who's going to pay the bandwidth costs of sites that depend on income from ads? The more popular a site is, the more incredible bandwidth fees they pay (popular sites can't use free hosting, mainly due to their bandwidth needs, etc). Without ads, sites like SourceForge.net or Slashdot.com would have to charge everyone for reading or die too. Think twice before blocking unobtrusive ads. Mass selfishness could bring many popular free sites to an end.
Re:Adblock (Score:3, Interesting)
Mass selfishness could bring many popular free sites to an end.
That's some chutzpah you've got there, claiming that somebody not looking at an ad is somehow selfish.
It's actually almost the reverse; doing pretty much anything that makes life hard for the marketing industry at the moment is performing a social service.
Oh, and your sky-is-falling scenario of free sites disappearing is so silly it's hardly worth talking about. They're not free, you're paying for them twice over; once in time/attention
Re:Adblock (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Adblock (Score:4, Informative)
Firefox actually has a worse adblock implementation then Opera, did you know that?
The root of the problem as I see it is not a poor integrated adblock functionality -- I'm sure Opera 9's new interactive and visual adblocking mechanisms are sufficient for most people -- the problem is more likely deep extension support for power users to extend functionality as they want and need.
While Opera ASA is doing an admirable job of keeping up to date with the competition as a company, my number one wish for Opera 10 is good extension support.
And no, Opera's aging Netscape plugin support is lacking in so many areas, like chrome and renderer extensibility, that I won't even discuss it.
One word... (Score:2)
Re:Adblock (Score:2)
Additionally, I can have one instance of privoxy running on a server, and cover my entire home network. One single point of configuration, with the config files easily transferred to my notebook when I travel.
Re:Adblock (Score:5, Informative)
No regexes, but a simple matching expression using * is automatically created. You can also block specific images only by holding Shift while clicking. It is quite intuitive, with a simple UI with only a few buttons and a short explanation text.
Re:Adblock (Score:2)
Re:Adblock (Score:2)
Integration. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Integration. (Score:2)
Then tell me how I have been using Opera for the past five or six years.
Re:Integration. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well... (Score:2, Insightful)
I would use Opera instead of Firefox if it was free (as in speech)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Obviously Slashdot can swallow a camel but chokes on a mosquito. Meaning, we think Java is evil despite its source being available, but Opera is cool despite its source NOT being available.
What I want: Less!!! (Score:2)
What is the biggest problem with software? Second-System Effect! 2SE makes life so much harder.
So, opera, continue to work on bug fixes, keep an eye out on useful, underlying technologies (bittorent, css updates (which is getting 2se'd as well!), and leave the bells, whistles and gongs to others!!
Tools for standards compliance (for developers). (Score:5, Interesting)
Browsers bend over backwards to be compatible with lots of pages, and by so doing promote worse behaviors.
The mess that passes for HTML is a direct result of the permissive approaches of browsers. It is understandable that browser vendors want to make the browser work on as many pages as possible, but it is a horrible tool to use in the hands of web developers because the bottom line is if it works, it is OK.
Browsers need modes that can be enabled for developers that raise exceptions when exercising behaviors that were inserted for compatability but which violate standards and/or are likely to break other browsers/versions. They need to do this to make it easy for developers to use the browser to test their web pages while not promoting worse-formed content. Whichever browser does this first, will be my choice of main browser to use when testing my web pages.
This goes way beyond just well-formed/valid HTML (Score:3, Interesting)
Every Javascript that executes, style that is interpreeted, etc. has to carefully segregate favored behaviors from poor behaviors done for compatibility.
There needs to be several levels. In some cases, there are standards-compliant behaviors that have traditionally been so poorly implemented by browsers that these should also be flagged as non-portable.
CSS behavior of form elements (Score:2, Interesting)
The same CSS behavior of form elements that Firefox and IE support. Whenever I style an input textfield, defining fixed widths and then add padding to that, it works great in Firefox and IE, but Opera ignores the padding so the fields are shorter. This makes it difficult to create a clean, aligned form so we usually just ignore it and leave Opera unsupported in this aspect.
Opera (Score:2)
how about work in marketing? (Score:2)
XForms (Score:2, Interesting)
Mozilla is already at an advanced stage in working on an implementation [mozilla.org]. The current progress is available via an extension [mozilla.org].
How to make Opera better (Score:2)
I, and a load of other people, won't use it until then.
Re:How to make Opera better (Score:2)
Don't use it then, no one gives a fuck.
native NetBSD port (Score:2, Interesting)
I think there are a sizable chunk of people that would like to see a NetBSD/i386 version. (Personally I'd like to see a NetBSD/mac68k version just for kicks, but I'm probably in the minority there.)
Open the bug tracker (Score:2)
Making good bug reports can take a bit of time, I don't bother for Opera, because I don't know if I'm just wasting energy on a bug that's already known.
And no, a forum is not the answer, too much noise to signal.
Only one thing needed (Score:3, Insightful)
Internet Explorer is great because it allows the user to remove stupid buttons, move around the menus and so forth, making the browser only one length thick on top. That's great if you want more space for viewing web sites and such. I personally prefer compact applications. When I look at Opera, I don't see that. I see a lot of cool stuff but I don't really need most of it and would prefer to add these nifty things once that I need them.
Automated nag to bad webmasters (Score:2)
"Hi,
While accessing your site, I came across some questionable markup. I've done my best to present your site - but I'm not positive I did it right. Perhaps you can fix the following errors?
[list of validation errors]
Kind regards,
An Opera browser"
Wouldn't that be something, folks?
Re:Automated nag to bad webmasters (Score:3, Interesting)
I get very good results with IE 6, NS 8.1, FF 1.5 and Lynx (for a pure text version) and that with and without javascript. But I have dropped the gauntlet with Opera. When something work with all the others browsers it doesn't work correctly in Opera and when I correct it in Opera, the display in all the others browser is broken...
I work for an institution wh
From a (web) developer standpoint (Score:2)
systematic "active stuff" blockin (Score:2)
Yes, active stuff like flash is sometimes useful, and some sites use such things to great advantage. But 99% of flash, for example, is used to create distracting ads. When a site does this to me, arrogantly assuming that I have nothing better for my cp
The Opera company is mismanaged in three ways: (Score:2)
There's a good test available at present, and the experiment is being performed all over the world. People can have both Firefox and Opera free, and they choose Firefox. They choose Firefox even though Firefox is the still the most unstable [slashdot.org] program in common use.
(The 1.5.0.4 version of Firefox is quite stable when the FlashBlock extension is installed, but still, a
Re:The Opera company is mismanaged in three ways: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry to have to say this, but your post is misinformed and your arguments are illogical or simply wrong.
Firefox's success has to do with marketing, plain and simple. Firefox had a major marketing push, as a completely free browser. Opera cou
Re:Faith-based UI, instead of ease of use? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, isn't that what you're asking? You want it to follow the rule IE invented, instead of being easier to use.
At the least, I don't see how pressing down instead of tab is harder, and this has the advantage that I can still use tab to switch to the next UI control (is there a way to do that in IE/Firefox?)
I think it's a bad idea to have to duplicate IE's behaviour just for the sake of it. And elsewhere people have been crit
Letting go of /dev/dsp (Score:2)
(This applies to Linux)
Personally, I think it's a publicity stunt. (Score:3, Interesting)
We can hope though I guess. All browsers have a lot of room for improvement (though I personally feel Opera mainly just needs extentions and to remove the extra pointless overhead that widget support has added) and if they actually stop and listen maybe we could get a browser that's truly as close to perfect as any peice of software can be? (Ok, that's going too far I guess, but wouldn't it be nice?)
Personally, I think it's a publicity stunt though. Get the web designers to look at Opera and get it mentioned enough that more users hear about it. To make suggestions on improvements, web designers would have to actually get it and try it (actually, I like the sound of that since a lot of them would have no choice but to admit that it's a good browser and maybe should get the occasional support instead of an "only IE and Firefox supported" page.) The truth is though, it seems to me that most of the suggestions are basically going to be things that should be ignored, such as a designer asking that they support a proprietary extention that works only in IE (I still don't know why they do that sort of thing since it's actually more work in the long run.) The fact is, unlike the big two (IE and Mozilla/Firefox) Opera is among the very few that correctly implements enough of the actual standards to pass the ACID2 [webstandards.org] test, so it seems to me like there isn't going to be a lot of requests that they support this or that standard.
So what's left from a designer's perspective besides asking them to fully support whatever little bit of the standards they don't already? Most changes need to come from the customer's perspective I think. Extentions, a better download manager, etc. It's easy to think of suggestions a user can make. Actually, what worries me is that generally what it comes down to is a developer wants as much control over your browser as they can. For example, one might want the ability to change the skin and menu layout of your browser specifically for their site. That's great for the developer, but, the end user would go bonkers in a hurry. Besides asking for proprietary extentions and more control over the user's screen, there's really so little that a developer can do that I can only conclude this is really ultimately just meant to get people's attention (hey, they got it on slashdot even, that's a good start, though the problem is that most slashdot users are intelligent enough to know about browser alternatives and most here who don't use Opera are just using it because for whatever reason they don't like it.)
Anyway, I'm not saying boycott Opera or something, just I'm wondering if this is just a publicity stunt or if they really do have a point for
Simple Interface (Score:2)
The Code (Score:2)
Crash free versions (Score:2)
Re:Multiple Personal Bars (Score:2)
Re:Allow context search results to open in a new.. (Score:2)
Re:Better UI (Score:2)