Real to Offer Open Source Windows Media for Linux 228
cpugeniusmv writes to tell us News.com is reporting that RealNetworks plans to release an open source method to allow Linux users to play Windows Media files. Currently Linux users are able to play the two main Windows Media formats (wmv and wma) but only if they install closed-source modules. The ability to launch this initiative comes from a recent licensing deal between RealNetworks and Microsoft and the antitrust settlement against Microsoft.
Satan: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Re:Satan: (Score:3, Interesting)
It is obvious that they don't control the downstream propagation of MS's patten rights. Or do they?
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Last time I checked, that doesn't necessarily mean GLPv3draft2, and it doesn't seem like they've declared GPL in the article.
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Let me kindly refer you to the Open Source Initiative [opensource.org] website.
GPL (vWhatever) is not the only OpenSource license, or even the only free software ((c) FSF) license around.
Actually, I personaly doubt they will release it using GPL, in whatever incarnation of the license. They are more likely to get OSI approval for an open source license of their own, just like SUN and IBM did. And consider
Re:Satan: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
On encoding maybe, but I don't think you can use patent law to prevent someone simply reading a file.
Re:Satan: (Score:2)
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but this is how I've aways thought it worked.
Re:Satan: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Satan: (Score:5, Informative)
I assume your misunderstanding is the result of the situation with the LZH-algorithm, or in practical terms, the GIF format. Thos, now expired patents only covered the LZH encoding not decoding, hence one could make, use and distribute a decoder but not an encoder. However this was just the special situation with regard to these 2 patents covering this particular algorithm, i.e. they were luckily (from the patent holder's point of view, unluckily) worded in such a way that they only covered the encoder.
Nota bene: Yes, there were indeed two patents covering exactly the same algorithm, one was held in its latter days by Unisys and was the more notorious one due to Unisys' active enforcement. The other one was held by IBM and just recently expired but IBM never actively enforced it (It would've probably fallen due to prior art anyway but it does illustrate the utter stupidity of the USPTO specifically and the patent system, especially with regard to software, generally).
Re:Satan: (Score:3, Informative)
Too little, too late... (Score:2, Interesting)
Bastards... I don't want their crap anyway
Re:Too little, too late... (Score:2)
And nothing since then, at least on the front page - and you'd think that WMV9 would be a big deal, and they'd mention it there. The WMV3 (VC-1) decoder is part of ffmpeg's involvement in the google summer of code [google.com] but mot the WMV9 one. The other four in there (for those
Re:Too little, too late... (Score:2)
"- VC-1/WMV3/WMV9 video decoder"
wmv9 in changelog (Score:3, Interesting)
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/changelog.html [mplayerhq.hu]
Re:wmv9 in changelog (Score:2)
That's really... (Score:5, Funny)
...err (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:...err (Score:3, Funny)
Re:...err (Score:2)
Of course, that's only if you *notice* that it looks dangerous. Even Open Source can contain some subtle things that appear innocuous. See the classic "Reflections on Trusting Trust [acm.org]" -- great little read.
Re:...err (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:...err (Score:2)
Of course, even then, you don't know for certain what a simple instruction like ADC AL S R6,R4,R2 might be doing. Sure it say
Re:...err (going offtopic) (Score:3, Funny)
I just imagined Nigel Hawthorne explaining this bit to me.
Re:...err (Score:5, Funny)
Re:...err (Score:5, Funny)
It was Greeks bearing a gift bearing Greeks. And if a few of those Greeks was carring presents, say birthday presents to give to somebody after the battle or something, then it would be Greeks bearing a gift bearing Greeks bearing gifts.
Re:...err (Score:5, Funny)
Plus, with the proclivity of Greeks to be naked, you could end up with:
Greeks gifting bears bearing Greeks being bare bearing gifts.
My head hurts now. But "What if we build a large wooden badger..." will be stuck in my mind all day, at least that's a plus.
Re:...err (Score:2)
Greeks gifting bears bearing Greeks being bare bearing gifts.
You mean that the Greeks would be in the buff and not have any buffering?
Thanks, I'll be here all week. Back on topic now.
Re:...err (Score:2)
I think you just won the Slashdot poetry contest. Please see CowboyNeal to claim your prize.
Re:...err (Score:2)
Hey, you being obtuse isn't my problem. There's even a damn smiley face to clue you in.
But no matter what, insults are meaningless when you're hiding as an AC, so I hope your little troll attempt made you feel good good about yourself.
Re:...err (Score:2)
Besides, I'm flattered that you're concerned with my contentment and well-being.
Re:...err (Score:2)
already there? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:already there? (Score:5, Insightful)
I do love mplayer though.
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Re:already there? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:already there? (Score:2)
There may be some kind of licensing agreement saying I can't use the files in such and such a way, but since the installer is bypassed, I don't have to read or agree to it.
Re:already there? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Re:already there? (Score:3, Interesting)
I asumme that you mean "download Windows Media Player" from Microsoft, and extract the CoDec DLLs from it. Would you please list which DLLs you get from this download, and where you put them on your GNU/Linux machine for your media plyaer to use? Thanks.
Re:already there? (Score:5, Informative)
You will need to check out the latest ffmpeg svn and compile it tho.
Re:already there? (Score:2, Informative)
and afaik, it can't handle wmv10 drm.
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Yeah, anyone could think Real made this announcement now to steal their thunder and get some cheap publicity...
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Re:already there? (Score:2)
Re:already there? (Score:2)
alternative (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:alternative (Score:2)
False Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Currently Linux users are able to play the two main Windows Media formats (wmv and wma) but only if they install closed-source modules...
Totally false. ffmpeg / mplayer / vlc etc. can all decode WMV files *natively* using the ffmpeg libavcoded libraries.
The problem is not decoding the files, that is trivial. The problem is dealing with the copy protection. Another open source library is not going to help this, because it will still never be allowed to decrypt the copy-protected files.
Re:False Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, mostly. ffmpeg can decode WMV 7/8/9 and WMA 7/8. There is no decoder for WMA Pro, WMA voice, or WMA lossless. WMV8 decoding has bugs and may drop certain keyframes.
Re:False Summary (Score:2)
Re:False Summary (Score:3, Interesting)
Thus your beef is with Apple and not Microsoft.
What I really lack is a way / program to move a video stream from one container format to another without transcoding the video stream. For example, the Ogg format hosts MPEG4 steams fairly well, so why can't I simply "lift" Microsoft MPEG4 or Apple MPEG4 videos from their respective proprietary containers to the open Ogg container?
Re:False Summary (Score:3, Informative)
Re:False Summary (Score:2)
Can you not use mencoder/mplayer with the "-oac copy" and/or "-ovc copy" options?
Use ffmpeg (Score:3, Interesting)
Untested, but something like that should work. See the friendly man page for more info.
Containers are patented (Score:2)
Because the containers are patented in several major developed jurisdictions. VirtualDub used to be able to move WMV streams to AVI, but a cease-and-desist letter citing a United States patent forced the developers to remove the functionality from 1.4 and later.
Re:False Summary (Score:2)
As far as I know, there are several tools (Quicktime, Nero, mp4box, etc.) for encoding into an mp4 container. What would make Theora preferable to that?
Licencing issues... (Score:2)
Aside from that, is WMA such an issue? I mean, now we got flash video players that are platform agnostic...
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:2)
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:2)
Except that Flash for Linux blows. (Score:2)
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:2)
I have gotten through most of the delays by messing with alsa (specifically the
Re:sound with flash (Score:2)
Re:Licencing issues... (Score:3, Informative)
That'll be great (Score:5, Interesting)
(You need 4 years of engineering graduate school to acquire this level of cynicism folks.)
I've been very impressed with Real's approach of late (ever since Helix, really, although they did some good things before then). They are showing a very cooperative attitude - enough to overcome any ill will I might have felt towards them - and I hope that they get a warm reception for this contribution that encourages them to embrace the open source/free software community further.
I do wonder though if any of this open source love is being pushed by the BBC? They are after all proabbly one of the biggest single drivers of Real installations and have demonstrated in the past their ability to push Real to change their stance.
I'm thinking particuarly of the fact that the BBC cancelled it's Ogg testing aboiut the same time that the whole Helix thing started - could Real opening up a bit in return for no migration to open source or free software codecs have been the price?
Re:That'll be great (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Try to instruct a novice user to find and download the free version on their website. Not an easy task but doable.
2) Try to install it without it inserting stuff into Windows startup - I use Startup Control Panel but not everyone is so lucky.
3) Try to remove the messages/popups etc. from a standard installation - again, not for the novice.
I applaud any attempt at open-sourcing software but I would worry about the quality of the code if their primary app is in this much of a mess.
Re:That'll be great (Score:4, Interesting)
This certainly used to be a massive problem (the easiest way was in fact to use the link provided by the BBC which went directly too it) but these days their download page [real.com] (the one you get to by clicking real player on the front page) outlines your options pretty clearly.
2) Try to install it without it inserting stuff into Windows startup - I use Startup Control Panel but not everyone is so lucky.
Not really a problem when installing on Linux, so I can't help you there. Windows users should be used to it by now from WMParasite anyway. Maybe someone who has installed a more recent version than you have can provide some insight.
3) Try to remove the messages/popups etc. from a standard installation - again, not for the novice.
Last time I ran Real Player on Windows that just involved changing the settings in the options tab. Now, i'll not overestimate the technical ability of most users, but unless things have changed it wasn't a lot harder than grasping the principle of how to turn your computer on.
Re:That'll be great (Score:2)
Things have indeed changed. With the current version the messaging/popups are extremely obnoxious to disable and I'm something of an expert user. While overall the process is less annoying than it has been in past years, that spec
Re:That'll be great (Score:2)
Re:That'll be great (Score:3, Interesting)
> worry about the quality of the code if their primary app
> is in this much of a mess.
Maybe they assume that most Windows users are idiots... Real Player for Linux if in fact quite neat application - GNOME style I would say. Real Player for Mac is a bit slow sometimes but again it works and is a little neat application. Only on Windows Real Player is real bloatware changing your settings (associations, putting shit in autostart etc).
On Wi
Re:That'll be great (Score:2)
Re:That'll be great (Score:2)
It does with Real's plugin. While that isn't free *yet* I hope it is in the future. In the mean time I welcome a vendor who shows they have good intentions and are working on the details. It's definatly preferable to the many vendors who prefer to try and firebomb the project.
Re:That'll be great (Score:4, Informative)
Re:That'll be great (Score:2)
Also, one of the supposed "advantages" of WMA/WMV is that it supports Digital Restrictions Management. Something tells me the Open Source codec won't do that {DRM requires security-through-obscurity}. Of course, having an Open Source version might well make reverse-engineering the closed source version a bit easier
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You -- the rightful recipient of an encrypted message -- have to have all three of the following: the encrypted file, the decryption key and the player {which contains the decryption algorithm}. Without the file you have nothing to watch / listen to, without the key you have no way to decrypt it and without the player you have no way to view / hear it. If you had the source code to the player, you could find out where the key is obtained from {it might be in the encrypted file or it might
ffmpeg already have this in the works! (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah so, move along... nothing to see here.
except this one will be legal (Score:2)
Yeah so, move along... nothing to see here.
How are free OSes going to make in-roads into the desktop market without media players that support popular codecs legally?
Re:except this one will be legal (Score:2)
Re:except this one will be legal (Score:3, Insightful)
A good start (Score:2)
What about the streaming protocol (Score:3, Interesting)
Being able to play windows media streams is just as usefull as being able to play windows media files on a disk or web url or etc.
Re:What about the streaming protocol (Score:2)
It also does ftp(s)://, http(s)://, smb://, and a number of other random network protocols.
Dear RealPlayer, (Score:5, Insightful)
(My underlying complaint is that you don't have a half-recent version for Windows Mobile. I've tried to convert these to WMV but it doesn't work well. Releasing a WM5 player - or even a J2ME player - would shut me up for now, but your real problem is you have the obscurest, proprietariest file format ever.)
Re:Dear RealPlayer, (Score:2)
Re:Dear RealPlayer, (Score:4, Insightful)
And while most players let you have a fairly big buffer, RealPlayer sounded staticy, like bad radio reception. I suspect it had some clever way for dropping quality, but I shouldn't have needed that with my connection -- and yet, it still spent half the time buffering.
CarTalk is a humorous radio show which answers automotive questions, half-seriously, you never know if they're giving you good advice or just messing with you. They switched from RealPlayer several years ago, because as amazing as it seemed (even to them!), RealPlayer managed to be significantly worse than Windows Media Player -- Microsoft did far, far better than them by being almost mediocre.
If Real wants to gain respect, then yes, they should open their own format. We don't need all the source code, just the codecs, thanks.
If Real wants to survive as a business, they should drop the farce and just start selling their spyware directly to botnet controllers and peddlers of animated cursors.
By the way, whoever suggested that Flash has replaced Real as the format that does copy protection... Flash may not be as open as we'd like for playing, but it's easy enough to rip the video out of it. Or at least, I've done that with audio -- pulled an ordinary mp3 file out of a Flash presentation. With Real, you have to use the Analog Hole, not that it's that bad -- the sound quality sucks so much that encoding it as a 56-bit mp3 wouldn't hurt.
Helix Player? (Score:3, Interesting)
Please open up your own format first before going and opening up other peoples' formats.
They have, AFAIK.
Helix Community [helixcommunity.org] offers the open source Helix Player which supports encoding and transcoding of RM along with a bunch of other formats [helixcommunity.org].
Re:Helix Player? (Score:4, Informative)
no thanks. (bombing on Real.) (Score:3, Insightful)
I have no time to read an article about Real networks, but i will take the time to state how much i dislike it.
Real media has been one of the most annoying web technologies since it came out. For instance: trying to sneak in lame apps and silly toolbars during the install. Trying to hi-jack file permissions.. Winamp has always delivered better quality, free and less annoying content.
It is just about worthless as a media player when compared to VLC [videolan.org] or any number of other players.
The only thing Real had going was content protection,.. but now streaming with flash (youtube, pornotube, google.video, ect.) is cake so they do not even have that. I can see why they would be trying to give the app to anybody who will take it.
the last place i want to see it is in a linux distro.
hrm... what else.. it's ugly & stinks too!
MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL (Score:2)
Missing Features (Score:3, Funny)
"... Duchmann said in an interview here. However, the software [Linux version] won't support digital rights management available with Windows, he added."
How come only the Windows version gets all the good features?
It's only a stopgap measure... (Score:2)
Untrue statements.... (Score:2)
Re:So, Real is trying to compete... (Score:2)
I need to own a copy of windows to legaly have it. If i don't then i don't have the legal right to use windows dlls or other stuff.
What does this mean to someone who doesn't think free means get it from emule? It means it is off limits without obtaining legal right to run it. With reals offering, i have that right(or it would apear so)
Re:Fantastic - but what is bringing the change? (Score:2)
Re:Real Fan (Score:2)
Re:Real Fan (Score:2)
I can only assume that you haven't tried EasyUbuntu yet.