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Neuroscientist Halts Research to Stop Extremists

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the everybody-loses dept.

1047

FleaPlus writes "UCLA neuroscience professor Dario Ringach, known for his contributions to our understanding of how the visual system processes information, has been forced to give up his experiments by the actions of animal-rights extremists. Although he and his family had endured harassment and vandalization by animal-rights activists for years, Ringach reconsidered after extremists tried to firebomb a colleague's home and accidentally left their Molotov cocktail on an elderly neighbor's doorstep. Ringach sent an email to animal activist groups saying, 'You win... please don't bother my family anymore.'"

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With the war on terrorism... (5, Insightful)

Sinryc (834433) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986972)

Why can't get get rid of our home grown ones?

Re:With the war on terrorism... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987030)

The Bush administration has no interest in protecting the advancement of science. That's the reason in this case, at least.

Re:With the war on terrorism... (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987055)

Yup. Because these groups started up in 2000.

Re:With the war on terrorism... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987099)

The original post referred specifically to "the war on terrorism." This is a phrase particularly associated with the Bush Administration. Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon...these presidents, while undoubtedly concerned with the effect of terrorisms, were not fighting a "war on terrorism" in the same way that the neocon fearmongers claim that we are today.

The phrase "With the war on terrorism..." implies a connection with current events.

Re:With the war on terrorism... (1, Funny)

Lord Prox (521892) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987106)

Damn it. I mis-read the title as "Neuroscientists Reasearch Halts Extremeists" I was thinking they found the fundimentalist nut-job gene sequence and could correct it and remove it from the gene pool.
Ah well. Mabey next week. Where is Craig Venter and Celera Genomics when ya need em.



Place a curse on the RIAA/MPAA today [i-curse.com]

Re:With the war on terrorism... (1, Insightful)

buswolley (591500) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987223)

Ummm.. These are liberal fiirebommmmmmers.. not conservative ones.. but go ahead and blame the republicans for the liberals..

ha ha

Re:With the war on terrorism... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987054)

Silly rabbit, everybody knows you have to wear a funny headdress or speak Arabic to be a terrorist!

~~~

Re:With the war on terrorism... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987114)

Bush has been continually waging a war on science. Why would he want to stop these groups?

Besides, they are experimenting on "primates," you know, his siblings:
http://www.dragoncollective.co.uk/submissions/bush orchimp.html [dragoncollective.co.uk] :)

With the war on eupraxsophy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987145)

"Why can't get get rid of our home grown ones?"

For the same reason that humanity has never known a moment of peace since it's beginnings.

Re:With the war on terrorism... (2, Insightful)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987159)

I'm sure that every home grown terrorist sitting on oilfields has been dealt with.

fp (0, Troll)

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Tellolists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15986976)

Shouldn't these be the terrorists the government goes after?

If only we could get these "animal 'rights'" . . . (0, Flamebait)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986982)

. . . nutcases interested in firebombing executives in the copyright cartel, they might be able to accomplish some good.

Morons (-1, Flamebait)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986984)

These people don't give two shits about animals. They just use that as a ruse in order to be destructive assholes.

Find them, tie their hands behind their backs, kneel them down and put a bullet through the backs of their skulls.

Re:Morons (5, Funny)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986988)

That would be too good. Better would be to use them for the experimentation that they deem unfit for animals. Everybody wins!

Re:Morons (1)

TJ_Phazerhacki (520002) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987019)

Yeah, China really figured out how to handle malcontents the right way. Thats why there's not a huge outpouring of social unrest there these days. Find then, arrest them, and jail them.

Re:Morons (3, Insightful)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987063)

Are you seriously putting the firebombing of the home of a little old lady in the same category as peaceful dissent?

Re:Morons (1)

daeg (828071) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987150)

Or for that matter, their political environment and freedoms versus ours? I'd be damn pissed if I couldn't do what I want, when I want, and spend my money how I want. Pissed off enough to be violent, likely. We, on the other hand, are still somewhat free... and we have full legal systems to handle every complaint these American terrorists have. It's called lawsuits (civil or criminal) and voting. Don't like testing on animals? Convince voters to agree with you to vote in like-minded politicians -- don't firebomb shit.

Re:Morons (1)

uranus65 (837545) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987023)

WTF?

Re:Morons (5, Insightful)

LGagnon (762015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987025)

You demand violence to stop violence that was meant to stop violence. You do realize your idea only helps the problem spiral, right?

Re:Morons (1)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987041)

We can manufacture bullets faster than they can manufacture destructive eco terrorists.

Re:Morons (1)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987069)

Make that animal rights terrorist, you twit.

Re:Morons (2, Funny)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987080)

And the good news is that bullets can be made with no animal by-products.

Re:Morons (1)

LGagnon (762015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987116)

And the more you kill, the more will rise up against you. You assume that everyone in our society who isn't an animal rights extremist is going to stand by and let you kill people when the death penalty is already a very contoversial topic. You are risking the ire of various fronts, not just the one you oppose.

Might I add, your method of killing people is quite similar to how it is done in fascist states. This would not go unnoticed by the general public, and would likely lead to some form of civil unrest.

Re:Morons (3, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987126)

You see, the problem with the current response is that in giving in because an elderly couple was accidently targetted means that friends and neighbors of such people will now be held hostage. The only effective way to use violence to stop such researchers is to target elderly neighbors...

Re:Morons (1)

TopShelf (92521) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987033)

They're incomptently destructive assholes, as well - and you can bet that if the Molotov they left on the old lady's door did ignite, none of them would have come forward to accept responsbility for the murder of an innocent person (despite the obvious contradiction with their so-called moral imperative).

Re:Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987085)

Filthy savages! They exhibit behaviour much like they have de-evolved to the level of primates, or other animal behaviour.

Nexy they will be throwing their own fecal matter at each other.

This is me, not being a hypocrite. (5, Insightful)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987058)

We complain when people who hold strong views don't censure their extremists. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't say this.

Violence isn't the answer. These people are destructive. These people are assholes. However, the answer is not to shoot them. They should be arrested, tried and, if found guilty, fined and/or imprisoned for their crimes.

Fantasies of "first against the wall, motherfuckers!" are briefly satisfying, but ultimately degrading to the person having the fantasy.

Re:This is me, not being a hypocrite. (1)

pyro_peter_911 (447333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987205)

We complain when people who hold strong views don't censure their extremists. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't say this.
Violence isn't the answer. These people are destructive. These people are assholes. However, the answer is not to shoot them. They should be arrested, tried and, if found guilty, fined and/or imprisoned for their crimes.
Fantasies of "first against the wall, motherfuckers!" are briefly satisfying, but ultimately degrading to the person having the fantasy.

I disagree. I think shooting someone who is in the act of trying to burn down my house is entirely reasonable.

I might add that the satisfaction in doing so would last quite a while and far from being degraded, I'd probably be a hero to my family and my neighbors.

The only regrets that I'd have is having to listen to my neighbor's monday morning quarterbacking of the events. "I'd have used the 12 gauge, Pete. You'd only need shoot him once with that."

Peter

Re:This is me, not being a hypocrite. (1)

Snarfangel (203258) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987206)

Fantasies of "first against the wall, motherfuckers!" are briefly satisfying, but ultimately degrading to the person having the fantasy.

Not if they turn it into a popular game. "Grand Theft Auto: Primate Freedom Project" sounds like a lot of fun.

Re:This is me, not being a hypocrite. (0, Troll)

TheSalzar (945163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987233)

no, they should be publicly exicuted, then their family tortured. That will teach others who think about dissent.

Re:Morons (2, Insightful)

Chasa (998060) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987113)

Instead of the bullet through the skull the parent suggested maybe these people should be arrested and made to work as free vets for the rest of their lives. It gets these crazies off the streets and if they love animals so much this would be their ideal job.

"animal" rights? (5, Insightful)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986986)

Although he and his family had endured harassment and vandalization by animal-rights activists for years, Ringach reconsidered after extremists tried to firebomb a colleague's home and accidentally left their Molotov cocktail on an elderly neighbor's doorstep.

I don't get it. Aren't humans "animals", too?

Re:"animal" rights? (3, Insightful)

Ignorant Aardvark (632408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987052)

No kidding, humans are the animals we all should instinctively have the most empathy with.

Fucking "animal rights" terrorists.

Re:"animal" rights? (2, Insightful)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987053)

I don't get it. Aren't humans "animals", too?

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Re:"animal" rights? (5, Funny)

Feyr (449684) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987124)

Four legs good! Two legs bad!

Re:"animal" rights? (2, Insightful)

serialdogma (883470) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987157)

Four legs good! Two legs better!

Re:"animal" rights? (2, Funny)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987163)

I like my wings barbecued!

Re:"animal" rights? (5, Funny)

Snarfangel (203258) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987170)

Four legs good! Two legs bad!

Third leg popular!

Some animals are more equal than others... (0, Redundant)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987062)


I don't get it. Aren't humans "animals", too?

Didn't you read Animal Farm in high school? It's been clearly stated by the pigs that while all are animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others. Sheesh.. try to keep up with us for a change.

Re:"animal" rights? (1, Insightful)

cryptoluddite (658517) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987211)

"the university is not releasing detailed information about projects being attacked by such group"

What I don't get is what exactly the research was. UCLA is a public institution right? So if they aren't telling, chances are that it really is something pretty upsetting -or- it's being paid for by a drug company / the gov't, in which case you can be really sure it's not something respectable.

On one side you have somebody saying "he's a murderer or worse" and on the other saying "I won't tell you what I'm doing but it's all good, just trust me". I mean wtf? Sometimes fighting fire with fire is what works the best. Just what exactly was he doing to these primates anyway?

What I don't get (4, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986993)

Is why these groups are allowed to continue to exist. I'm sorry but I don't buy this crap of "We applaud people who do things like this and we don't stop members from doing it, but really it's not our fault that it happens!" Sorry, like with corporations, I think if there's consistent bad action by our members and if your policy encourages that, then you are liable, regardless of if it was "official" or not.

While you certainly can't be expected to control all the actions of everyone who belongs to your group, there's still a duty not to turn a blind eye on purpose, and then pat them on the back after the fact.

Re:What I don't get (2, Interesting)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987084)


Is why these groups are allowed to continue to exist.


The government would have to prove that leaders in the organization were directly involved in supporting the actions of some of its members. Look at organized crime as an example. The FBI worked very hard for many years to get prosecutions of the leaders of the mob. There would have to be a similar concerted effort to take down these animal rights people.

Re:What I don't get (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987165)

All they need to do, thanks to the PATRIOT Act, is label them as "enemy combatents" or terrorists and make them disappear. No legal action can be taken, no real trial; just take them out behind the chemical shed and end them. After all, that is why we passed the PATRIOT Act: so we can quickly and easily stop terrorists. Oh, wait, that only applied to Arabs... you mean it isn't ment to stop all terrorists, just Arab terrorists? Well damn, I guess we'll have to give these American terrorists due process.

Oh, it's not just them. (1, Insightful)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987166)

Anyone else remember the right-wing bloggers posting maps to the home of the journalist who did a fluff piece on Rumsfeld's vacation home? And the barely-veiled exhortations to their followers to go out and wreak havoc? Which were not rescinded, even when it was revealed that the whole thing was cool with Rummy [blogspot.com] ?

Or pro-lifers who don't condone the Army of God or clinic bombers... but they don't condemn them, either. Same plausible-deniability nonsense.

What I don't get-Infringing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987209)

"While you certainly can't be expected to control all the actions of everyone who belongs to your group, there's still a duty not to turn a blind eye on purpose, and then pat them on the back after the fact."

Hell yeah! Now if you'll excuse me. I have some content creator to "infinge" upon.

BTW don't forget to mod me up. Thanks.

Return the favor? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987226)

I don't like the idea of stooping to their level, but something should be done. Why not give them a piece of your mind?

http://www.uclaprimatefreedom.com/ [uclaprimatefreedom.com]
UCLA@PrimateFreedom.com
http://www.animalliberationpressoffice.org/ [animallibe...office.org]
press@animalliberationpressoffice.org

Maybe someone can dig up individual's phone numbers/email addresses/actual address so that we can better convey our dissatisfaction. Use that freedom of speech.

Activitists (4, Insightful)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 8 years ago | (#15986994)

Bah... these are the real terrorists... You don't agree with what someone is doing, then sue them... that's the american way... and if that fails, then try and get a law passed to make it illegal... starting your own personal war based on your morals is no different than the actions of those the US is currently calling terrorists. But hey, this is in the country who's government doesn't believe in teaching evolution anymore...

Times like these I'm happy to live in a country where the worst thing activists do is slow down traffic, and hold marches.

Re:Activitists (1, Insightful)

LGagnon (762015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987075)

Oddly enough, the US government also teaches us this same might-means-right attitude. When we invade other countries and perform terroris... excuse me, "liberation" - on them, we only serve to teach our people that terrorism can be justified so long as you believe it is right. Thus, we get terrorists who are not just Islamic fundimentalists, but also Christian fundimentalists, animal rights extremists, neo-nazis, and a whole host of other wierdos who hadn't been as big of a threat as they are now.

And please note that I know these threats existed before the Iraq invasion; America has invaded other countries before Iraq on similar grounds, though. Those other invasions were just (mostly) forgotten by our short-term collective memories.

Re:Activitists (5, Funny)

dfenstrate (202098) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987241)

Time between when the story was posted by the editors and someone blames bush.... 19 minutes.

Is that a new record?

Terrorists. (4, Insightful)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987004)

Fucking terrorists. They're the same as abortion clinic bombers, using violence to induce fear to achieve their political goals.

And I want to say that he should have stood up to them, that if you give in like this, the terrorists win... but the guy's put up with years of harassment, and now violence against his coworkers, with a very real threat to his family and to people unlucky enough to live near him. So it's understandable why he's packing it in; under the same circumstances, I would have given up years earlier. But it still fucking sucks.

The most grating part of it is that I'll bet the assholes from UCLA Primate Freedom who posted his picture and contact info think they can wash their hands of the inevitable results of their propagandizing.

Re:Terrorists. (5, Insightful)

devbiowonk (638623) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987086)

Amid all of the chaos of today's world (our lovely wars in the middle east etc.), this is the most depressing story I have read all week. A scientist was forced out of a field that he has dedicated a significant portion of his life to by some self-important zealots(at least he has tenure already). I find it ironic that the people on the far left of the polictical spectrum perpetrating these acts are achieving the goals of the far right (halting the progress of science). Perhaps I am just biased because I have done animal research myself...

It's not a spectrum, it's a circle. (3, Insightful)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987184)

Far-right and far-left zealots have a lot more in common than they like to admit. Their shared radicalism leads to a desire to tear down our institutions and force society into a mold more to their liking. This means violence and force, lots of force.

What kind of animal research? What sort of ethical issues did you run into, and how did the system handle it? We hear that animal researchers are bloodthirsty scoundrels, cruelly vivisecting for the fun of it. Did you go through an IRB process, and what did that entail? What restrictions were placed on what you did?

Re:Terrorists. (-1, Troll)

lamp540 (644770) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987158)

How is preventing people from torturing animals a political goal? It's a basic moral goal. If you're walking down the street and see someone beating a cat or dog would you not stop them?

Re:Terrorists. (3, Interesting)

ToasterofDOOM (878240) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987197)

This is something that all slashdotters can agree on, liberal or conservative, pro-animal rights or otherwise. These guys are as much terrorists as IED bombers or the mafia or those who hunted down civil rights activists in the past. regardless of your stance on whose politics are right, these people are deplorable and wrong.

Awww...Poor Baby! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987015)

"please don't bother my family anymore"

Awww, poor baby!

How a person treats animals is the most significant insight into their emotional character.

Glad to see this sicko learned his lesson.

Oh, really? (1)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987032)

And into the character of his family members, and of his neighbors too, I suppose?

Re:Awww...Poor Baby! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987047)

Can someone actually tell me what he did to the animals.

It was rape. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987103)

He raped them. Anally.

Here's an example. (2, Insightful)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987115)

Well, according to the terrorists and their enablers [animallibe...office.org] , "Each monkey is first paralyzed, then has coils glued to her eyes during a single session that lasts up to 120 hours, and finally killed." It says nothing about why he did this or what the purpose was, which, I suppose, would make a difference.

Also, according to them [uclaprimatefreedom.com] , people at "Huntingdon Life Sciences" "punch baby beagles repeatedly in the face". I'm not sure what to make of this. Do researchers punch puppies? That seems kind of... odd. What's the point of that?

Re:Here's an example. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987175)

Ah yes... those are completely unbiased sources of information that you reference. Why don't you cite papers published from the research instead? Quoting inaccurate and biased sources is worse than ignorance.

Re:Here's an example. (1)

Woy (606550) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987224)

Well, according to the terrorists and their enablers, "Each monkey is first paralyzed, then has coils glued to her eyes during a single session that lasts up to 120 hours, and finally killed." It says nothing about why he did this or what the purpose was, which, I suppose, would make a difference.

Also, according to them, people at "Huntingdon Life Sciences" "punch baby beagles repeatedly in the face". I'm not sure what to make of this. Do researchers punch puppies? That seems kind of... odd. What's the point of that?

The coils won't stay glued.

crude explosive (5, Informative)

phlegmofdiscontent (459470) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987021)

It's interesting to note that the LA Times article calls it a crude explosive (which could be anything from firecracker to pipe bomb) while the other article calls it a Molotov Cocktail (which IS crude, but more specific). All that aside, obviously these people (if they did it) are complete and utter morons. One does not light a Molotov Cocktail and place it on a porch. One lights a Molotov Cocktail and throws it through a window (or air vent on a Soviet tank, which was the device's original purpose). The glass container breaks, spraying flammable liquid all over the place which then ignites, burning the place down. THAT is how one firebombs a house correctly.

Re:crude explosive (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987034)

Not that I actually have done this.

Re:crude explosive (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987141)

its a very bad thing when Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin is the guy that invented your drink recipe

Re:crude explosive (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987219)

*takes notes*

So THATS how it's done!

Thank you,
  -PETA

they like animals so much (1)

p51d007 (656414) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987026)

If caught, feed these idiots to the tigers at the zoo. I'm a member of PETA......people EATING tasty animals!

Re:they like animals so much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987232)

Wouldnt't that be "PETA, People Eaten by Tasty Animals"?

Terrorists (1, Offtopic)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987038)

GW Bush doesn't care about American terrorists. Why aren't they in jail? Oh yea, he's too busy doing illegal wiretaps and spending crazy stupid sums of money on shiny new technology which won't work nearly as well as advertized, and forgetting that they way you catch terrorists is with smart people doing old-fashioned police work.

Re:Terrorists (2, Informative)

richdun (672214) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987243)

You have a point - we're doing all these things to "catch the terrorists," but if we can't catch a bunch of home-grown environmental or animal-rights extremists, how are we going to catch the guys with multi-billion dollar backers and training camps.

TEH KKKARL ROVE PLANTED THIS STORY!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987039)

Slashdot heads are imploding!!

The perfect liberal sanctuary has been violated!!

Alert the mods!!

Purity is lost!!

What the hell? (1)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987136)

What the crap are you talking about? Have you been reading too much LGF about how liberal Slashdot is? You'll notice that the majority of the comments are calling the "animal-rights activists" terrorists. Were you expecting something else?

Between Pavlov and Dr Moreau (4, Interesting)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987056)

The question to ask is where do you stop ? . As much of a tree hugger I am, putting a bomb at somebody's doorstep is now way to react. In fact, I'd say these activists have terrorized a man out of his quest for knowledge.

Sure, I've gone and petitioned against trees being cut down. Indeed, we've even hugged a few and prevented their demise. But vigilante retribution was never the way to save animals. There have been transgressions on one side, but that doesn't justify the other side from commiting brutality.

Replacing cruelty to animals, with one towards mankind doesn't solve the problem - mainly because there is no Noble Savage unlike what Rousseau dreamed.

This is like terrorism with its own ecological brand (call it another religion if you want).

Re:Between Pavlov and Dr Moreau (1)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987111)

You stop when all the trees have been cut down, all the baby seals have been saved and there is peace in the middle east!

Re:Between Pavlov and Dr Moreau (0, Troll)

lamp540 (644770) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987202)

If you believe that his quest for knowledge is so important then why don't you volunteer to be part of these primate studies? They use OTHER primates because they are similiar to human primates, but a human is the PERFECT test subject. So you think that his knowledge gain is important, you could give him even MORE by using yourself. Are you going to? If you do then you have a right to say something against these "terrorists," if not you're a hypocrite.

Everytime I read a story like this... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987064)

...I am going to torture 25 monkeys to death. Just for fun. Not for science, just good old fashioned fun.

The cutest thing about animal rights activists (4, Insightful)

Baldrson (78598) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987087)

You know how cute animals are. Well animal rights activists are at their cutest when they loose invasive species from laboratories on the unsuspecting indigenous flora and fauna the way they did in the British Isles.

terrorism (0, Flamebait)

Rutulian (171771) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987088)

So, uh...yeah. With all of the talk about the War on Terror these days, what is being done about this kind of crap. Isn't the instillment of fear with threats of violence to obtain political victories terrorism? I don't see GW talking about terrorism that happens in our own country (you know, by Americans) in the news....

Re:terrorism (1)

ashman512 (987591) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987216)

That's because eco terrorism isn't nearly as widespread or serious as the kinds of things conventionally thought of terrorists try to pull off. Of course the president isn't going to be looking into something like this. This is the type of thing that would be handled with a restraining order and jail time.

Eco-terrorists targetting academics... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987094)

The University of Washington's Center for Urban Horticulture was firebombed in 2001 by the ELF. The terrorists who did this will be charged under new anti-terrorism laws and will likely spend many, many years in prison. I hate these extremists - they only damage their own cause. But I can't blame the guy for not wanting to put up with the constant harassment.

Horticulture?! (1)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987230)

I thought that must have been a typo. But nope, these assholes burned down a $4.1 million research facility that was breeding trees because one of the researches was working with genetically engineered samples in the lab. Not releasing them into the environment. Just looking at them in the lab. Unbelievable. [washington.edu] They're lucky no one was hurt, or worse.

Cowardly Bullies, feeding on scientists... (2, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987100)


The fear of the modern radical environmentalist-wannabe is that man is going to disrupt nature, ending the vibrant life cycle that has taken so long to develop here, and the morals necissary to continue a 'balanced' life. That's a valid fear - but science is the last thing to attack if that is your fear.

I cringe when people honor people who commit these actions with the title environmentalists. These bullies are instead waging war on the very forces in society with any hope of stopping a blind march towards environmental disaster. Scientists 'harm' animals so that worse harm does not have to happen to both other animals, and to people in the future. Perhaps their hope is that mankind will someday fall and nature continue - but mankind is a part of nature, and the very intelligence that drives us to exploit the rest of nature to the extent that we do now isn't going to drop away from the planet without a WHOLE lot of the rest of nature going with us.

The idea is to avoid mass death, to allow the greatest morality to the greatest number - not close your eyes and mind to the realities of life and death. Science is our best way to keep our eyes open.

But because these bullies can't fight society at large, they instead attack scientists. In the same way that religious extremists angry that society won't adopt their religion will strike at the weakest enemies they can find in hope that their brutality will shock the innocent into following them, these idiots seem to think that extremist bullying will somehow serve to save nature. Few things could be more disgusting in my eyes.

Ryan Fenton

Fascism by any other name is still fascism (2, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987118)

These same violent pricks and bitches would no doubt cry "Fascist!" at any cops that participates in an effort to control a globalization protest or some other left-wing cause. Yet here they are, engaging in many of the classic coercion tactics of the brownshirts. Fear, intimidation, violence.

It's always "activism" when the left does it, but fascism when the right does it. I hope the FBI nails these fucks hard because they are a much greater threat to this country than any Islamic nutjob. Why? They're potential voters. They're violent extremists who actually act on their rhetoric. They're the closest thing we have to an organized domestic terrorism problem.

And before anyone brings up abortion clinic bombers, you want to know why it isn't a problem? Because there are a lot of Christians like me who wouldn't hesitate to shoot those violent fucks if we caught them in the act. Why? Our religion teaches that preserving life is a duty of all Jews and Christians.

I believe abortion is murder, but so is murdering a doctor because as much as I'd like to call it equivalent to a concentration camp, I can't because it's too insidious and two wrongs don't make a right. These guys don't care about such moral complexities. To them it's just murder so they go out and murder. This is the essence of "judge not lest you be judged," not the crap about blindly accepting everyone's personal choices as being as good as the next guy's.

So, in short, I wish the FBI and police the best of luck. May they hunt down these violent little brownshirts and lock their asses away. Even the protestors. As far as I am concerned, the first amendment does not extend protection to protests done outside someone's home. That is fear and intimidation and the police are quite justified in arresting and charging every "protestor" as harasser or stalker.

I do not think that word means what you think.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987214)

These people are not 'fascists'. Here's the dictionary definition of 'fascism', straight from the OED:
The principles and organization of Fascists. Also, loosely, any form of right-wing authoritarianism.
Granted, that's only the first line, but you get the idea. Fascism always involves the state repressing people. These terrorists -- make no mistake about it, terrorists they certainly are -- are not fascists. Some of them are socialists or communists, perhaps, but not fascists.

No, no... (2, Informative)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987240)

It's not "violence" or "intimidation". It's "direct action [directaction.info] "! Doesn't that sound so much nicer?

Ooh, and here's an example [washington.edu] :

The fire crippled many research and public service programs supported by mainstream environmental groups. For example, approximately one-fourth of the world's supply of an endangered plant species, the showy stickseed, went up in flames. [...] Slides and research material on the recovery of Mount St. Helens after its 1980 eruption were destroyed in the fire. Public outreach programs sponsored by WSU Extension-King County, including coordinating master gardeners and pea-patch gardens for the working poor, were also harmed.


Way to go, retards...

Devil's advocate (-1, Flamebait)

lamp540 (644770) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987123)

Humans, homo sapiens, are primates.

What is the moral difference, then between conducting medical experiments on unwilling humans and on unwilling chimpanzees or other primates?

Would it be wrong to kidnap humans to do experiments on? Why is this not okay but it's okay to capture other primates to experiment on? Is the lack of ability to speak mean that it's okay to cage a primate and perform experiments on them?

If there is nothing wrong with experimenting on other primates against their will then there is nothing wrong with experimenting on humans against their will.

If you were locked in a cage and having your brain cut open and prodded and shocked would you not want someone, anyone, to try to do something to stop it?

Were the slave revolts through out history wrong? Should the former slaves not taken any kind of violent action towards their masters?

I challenge anyone that thinks that experimenting on primates is okay to watch one of these videos:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=colu mbia_primates [petatv.com]

http://www.petatv.com/viv.html [petatv.com]

Re:Devil's advocate (4, Funny)

remembertomorrow (959064) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987238)

I wonder if monkey tastes good... watching those videos while hungry was probably not a good idea.

*heads to local zoo*

What was he doing? (0, Troll)

caudron (466327) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987128)

Not that it justifies a firebombing at all, but what exactly was he doing to get the activists so upset? I know many of them can be irrational, but they do tend to concentrate efforts on the worst offenders in general.

I'm not siding with them at all, but I am curious as to what he was doing in his labs that made him such a strong target. Is it possible that he was being overzealous in his experimentation? I'm no fan of PETA, but there is a limit to the amount of cruelty I think should be visited on animals for our benefit. What were his supposed "crimes"?

Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/ [digitalelite.com]

Biblically, men are superior to animals (0, Flamebait)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987134)

Science may not dictate morals, but I don't think Peta should dictate morals either. Such things should be left up to God.

This quote serves a 2 part purpose it's speaking on terms of not being afraid of man, and man being superior to animals.

Matthew 10:26-31 So do not be afraid of people. Whatever is now covered up will be uncovered, and every secret will be made known What I am telling you in the dark you must repeat in broad daylight, and what you have heard in private you must announce from the housetops. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell. For only a penny you can buy two sparrows, yet not one sparrow falls to the ground without your Father's consent. As for you, even the hairs of your head have all been counted. So do not be fraid; you are worth much more than many sprarrows!

Re:Biblically, men are superior to animals (1)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987244)

Such things should be left up to God.
My god says you shouldn't get your ethics out of 2000 year old books. What does your god have to say about that?

Why experiment on defenseless animals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987152)

...when there are plenty of extremists you can use?

Terrorists win! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987153)

That scientist should grow a pair.

This will accomplish the exact opposite.... (3, Insightful)

dfenstrate (202098) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987156)

The animal research still needs to be done, and because of assholes like these, it's all going to china.

In China, the concept of human rights is laughable- do you think the government there gives a shit about animals?
Or that they would hesitate to beat down any Animal Liberation Front jerks, quite literally?

There should be laws against this kind of behavior, they should be enforced, or there should be a local law enforcement culture that encourages a violent beat down of people who carry on this type of harrasment campaign.

Congratulations, morons. You will accomplish the opposite of what you intended- more animal research, and no government oversight to ensure they are being treated even vaugely humanely.

Not surprising (5, Insightful)

Kohath (38547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987160)

Animals don't have rights. It's not that much of a leap from the fantasy that anmials have rights to the justification that it's OK to firebomb people to protect animals.

Reality never intercedes because it was left behind when the animal rights activists refused to complete the transition to adulthood and the realities and responsibilities that come with it. Some people just decide to live in a cartoon world.

When animals agree to a set of minimum behavioral norms that define a civil society, then they'll have rights. Until then, it's the law of the jungle that defines the lives and fortunes of animals.

Contrary opinion alert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987169)

Well, after reading up on the experiments, I'm with the so-called "extremists". And I'm a scientist - tough luckily not in nearly as disgusting a field.

What an extremist group... (1)

Lord Aurora (969557) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987180)

Gee, this guy is hurting animals! Let's firebomb his house! Yeah, that'll teach him!

I'm constantly amazed at how far "activists" will go to further their agenda...it becomes a big game to them. Ridiculous.

So... (1)

Hangin10 (704729) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987181)

all of a sudden it's okay to kill people to save a couple of lab animals?
Doctor: "Are you for animal rights?"
Nutjob: "Yes."
Doctor: "No penicillin for you. It was tested on mice." (with an Indian accent, of course)
Nutjob: "But... but... I have a cold." (obligatory, unrelated reference to prescribing antibacterial medicine for viral infections.)

If my family were ever harrassed by these assholes (1, Flamebait)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987186)

a swift baseball bat to one of their kneecaps would quickly end it.

Remember, it isnt attempted murder if you shoot below the waist

there are soo many far more horrible examples of animal cruelty and they pick something that has a purpse besides fitting well.

what a bunch of jackasses

Terrorism? Try Cruel and Unusual Torture... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15987191)

I'm not going to comment on whether the actions taken were right or not. However, animal testing is digusting, period. Why not pay human volunteers? Non-humans are unable to willing volunteer under the guise that they will help out with vital research (or otherwise simply line their pockets). Haven't humans already caused enough species to go extinct without deliberately torturing the remaining ones as well?

Always strikes me (3, Insightful)

Crashmarik (635988) | more than 8 years ago | (#15987217)

How many animal rights people are pro choice and willing to do violence to humans.
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