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Can Sony Convince the World?

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the not-me dept.

127

Gamasutra's regular feature asking a question of the game development community is back. This week's question cuts to the heart of the reporting from the Tokyo Game Show: Can Sony Convince Us it is Still Dominant?. From the article: "All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant. People can forgive any number of faults if the company generally acts responsible for their mistakes. When the PSP came out and people complained about the square buttons getting stuck and not being as responsive as the other buttons, Sony said 'There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to.' We have to adapt to their broken button... Comedic at best. When everyone said the price of the PS3 was rather high, Sony told everyone that 'people will buy it no matter what.' What do they say about PCs? 'The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC.' - Dave Fried, The Collective"

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127 comments

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Hi Dave! (-1, Troll)

Matteo522 (996602) | about 8 years ago | (#16161658)

First post? :) -Matt

wow (2, Funny)

bradkittenbrink (608877) | about 8 years ago | (#16161671)

Can Sony Convince Us it is Still Dominant?
I think I speak for the entire slashdot groupthink when I say, "Wow, what a dumb question!"

Re:wow (1)

splutty (43475) | about 8 years ago | (#16161689)

Indeed. WoW. Everyone knows Blizzard ousted Sony.

Re:wow (2, Insightful)

sedyn (880034) | about 8 years ago | (#16162202)

Exactly, If Sony's still dominant, it doesn't have to convince us of anything.

As a side note, how would one evaluate Sony's success? Do we compare it's adoptation to the other consoles or the PS2? If the answer is "both" then Sony's has a difficult struggle ahead of it.

Re:wow (1)

Kardall (886095) | about 8 years ago | (#16163253)

Regardless of how dumb this question is, your explanation is pointless. The question asked whether or not sony COULD convince us, not whether or not they had to.

If they aren't a dominant force (which I don't believe there is any one dominant force at this moment in time in the console market), how would they go about convincing people? It will be very hard to at least put on a facade of a dominant unrefutable force to be reckoned with, when deciding on what console to purchase for your loved one this holiday season.

I don't buy anything when it first comes out anyway, there are always problems at the start, and it is the same with anything that a consumer buys. Someone has to buy it or we won't know about the issues, but I for one will let the cows goto the slaughter house before I go ahead and test my luck with a PS3. It would take something immensly cool and not-done-before to make me want to purchase a PS3. Last console I bought was an N64, and it was a big mistake for me. I could play better games on the PC than on N64, but the marketing team managed to convince me that GoldenEye was the be-all-end-all of games. So I bought it. It was awesome, but i regret paying X dollars for a system I purchased to play one game. No other game on N64 peaked my interest enough.

Sony needs a good marketing team, they may be able to convince people to buy a machine.

That would require... (0)

Ai Olor-Wile (997427) | about 8 years ago | (#16161679)

That would require Sony to still be dominant. In the videogame market, it was observed some time ago that both Microsoft and Sony expected everyone to buy a Wii. After the sluggishness of the disc format wars and our good old friend the DRM CD fiasco, I don't think too many people who keep up on the PR are fond of them. The PS3's Linuxishness might pay off with the OSS crowd, though. Also, they lack innovativeness. :O

Re:That would require... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161722)

innovativeness

Very innovative word you came up with there.

Re:That would require... (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | about 8 years ago | (#16161764)

I believe the word he was looking for is innovativosity.

Re:That would require... (2, Interesting)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16161727)

...it was observed some time ago that both Microsoft and Sony expected everyone to buy a Wii.


Who? When? Where? Why?

I would like to see some sorta reffereance to this.

Re:That would require... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161807)

It's the availability heuristic. It seems so rational to him that it MUST be true.

He doesn't have a clue, he was trying to get first post, and made up two new words in the process... anyway, neither Microsoft nor Sony expect "everyone" to buy anything but Microsoft or Sony, respectively. I mean, duh!

Re:Everyone loves the Wii (2, Informative)

trdrstv (986999) | about 8 years ago | (#16162252)

Actually, both Peter Moore [slashdot.org] of Microsoft [gamepro.com] and Phil Harrison [gamepro.com] of Sony had various words of praise for the Wii. Peter's was more like an endorsement than Phil's, but if everyone buys the Wii as their second console, then it is the #1 player over all.

Re:Everyone loves the Wii (1)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16162637)

Awsome.

being the Nintendo fanboy I am I am happy to actualy see this to be true!

Viva La Revo^H^H^H^HWii!

Re:That would require... (1)

pembo13 (770295) | about 8 years ago | (#16162542)

This has been announced before.

Re:That would require... (1)

Silent sound (960334) | about 8 years ago | (#16162824)

E3. Peter Moore gave an interview where he said he expected most people would be buying a 360 and a Wii (and observed probably that would cost about the same as a PS3). The next day some Sony bigwig (Phil Harrison?) got all huffy and gave an interview in which he said Peter Moore is wrong, and people would be buying a PS3 and a Wii. It was just a media pissing match, but still it was kind of funny. No, I don't have a link.

They are starting to. (3, Insightful)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16161713)

I think it is POSSIBLE for them to pull their act together. Are they going to do it? I have no clue. I have honestly never seen a company seemingly TRYING to hamstring themselfs before this.

They have tacken 2 steps i nthe proper directions:
1) The inclussion of HDMI on all PS3s is a very good idea in my mind. You now have a BluRay player for $500 that is not crippled. The expanded HD does not seem like that much of a wory. The loss of WiFi? Mehh. No card reader? I dono, does it really do much? (I honestly don't remember).
Now they just need to make the price not suck AS much, right?

2) Droping the price of the core system in Japan.

They caught on that the Japanese didn't like the price, and mabey they will catch on that Americans (and the rest of the world) don't like $500 as a price point either.

Though, I will admit that $500 is almost an acceptable budget for a system to me, however that is b/c I am ussed to dropping $500+ when ever I upgrade my computer...

Note: I will never buy a PS3 untill the price comes down to around the $200 range. I will buy a Wii, but that is b/c it seems like it is honestly inovative. the PS3 is a replacement for my computer as a gaming platform? I will pass, you can pry my trackball from my cold dead hands.

Re:They are starting to. (2, Insightful)

nsmike (920396) | about 8 years ago | (#16161768)

Though, I will admit that $500 is almost an acceptable budget for a system to me, however that is b/c I am ussed to dropping $500+ when ever I upgrade my computer...

$500 is around what I'm budgeting for the Wii. In order for any game system to be worth anything to you when you take it home that day, you'll have to fork over at least another $50-$60 for one game (Save the Wii, if Wii Sports is REALLY all you want to stick with). That's if you only want to stay one-player too. Then fork over extra for the controller... If you have an HDMI compliant television, that's a good chunk for an HDMI cable... $500 is quickly turning into $600 for the conservative new PS3 owner, and could easily balloon to $800 for the one who saved every cent that crossed his path.

Re:They are starting to. (2, Insightful)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16161875)

Very true, I am now sorta tempted to work out just how much everything equates out to.

Generaly the budget I work with for when I upgrade/buy a new computer is $700-850 (generaly I am replacing just about everytihng exept optical drives, NIC, simple things like that).

Now to me, that is compleatly reasonable as I spend a large portion of my free time infront of my computer, and much of that is spent gameing (aka actualy taking advantage of the $$ spent on performance). It is also the main thing I am interested in (my hobey I guess you coudl call it, most people have that one thing they love doing and drop alot of their $$/free time into).

If the PS3 could some how take over that aspect of my life then I could see my self spending that type of money on it easily ($800 should buy me a PS3 a second controller and some games, right? then ontop of that it does other things also, right?).

I think I am seeing where Sony is coming from with their price point. They realy want this to be the center of your home life. No more time spent browsing /., looking up pr0n, downloading illegal movies/music/pr0n, talking on the phone, looking up pr0n, etc etc etc.

Looking back at wht I just wrote I realize that Sony is SoL if they tihnk people are going to actualy drop that much $$ on their system.

My beliefe?
If sony can drop their price to around $350-400 they could very possibly come back and dominate the market (this is assuming they can keep the developers as well).

Oh well, Sony confuzes me.

Re:They are starting to. (4, Informative)

Salamande (461392) | about 8 years ago | (#16163181)

Historically you're correct, but I have to say, the Xbox 360 kinda changes that dynamic. You can take it home without 1 game and, as long as you have an internet connection, you can download demos all day and night without paying a cent through Xbox Live Silver. And I'm talking really nice demos like the ones for Lost Planet and Dead Rising. That's one thing MS did absolutely right.

Re:They are starting to. (1)

soft_guy (534437) | about 8 years ago | (#16161853)

I have no clue. I have honestly never seen a company seemingly TRYING to hamstring themselfs before this.

You must not follow companies much. I can think of lots of companies that have gone way out of their way to destroy customer goodwill and drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy and beyond. Sony is far from being the first company to do that. In fact, they are not even the first video game company to do that. Remember Atari?

I can think of many other examples: General Motors, Ford, Apple under John Sculley to just name a few.

Re:They are starting to. (1)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16161926)

Sory, showing my age I guess. I am not actualy familiar with any of those events (heck, by the time I was old enough for video games the Atari was already a dinosaur).

I am actualy more familiar with the dotcom problems, where you had companies doing everything they could to make their customers LVOE them, then realizing that their buisness strategy would not turn a profit. I think of companies like Kosmo.com that just could not turn a profit when I tihnk of companies shooting themselfs in the foot.

Re:They are starting to. (1)

soft_guy (534437) | about 8 years ago | (#16162729)

I used to work for a software company that would buy dinner for people who were working late through kozmo.com. Their reps came to our office and gave us a whole bunch of swag when we started ordering from them. And then we would order like "a salad" or "a sandwich" and they would bring it. I remember that they did not treat their delivery employees very well, though.

Re:They are starting to. (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | about 8 years ago | (#16161863)

Note: I will never buy a PS3 untill the price comes down to around the $200 range.

Looks like you're not buying one then. Ever. The PS2 started at $400 and to this day is only $150. If the PS3 is starting at $500 don't expect it to ever be as low as $200.

Re:They are starting to. (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 8 years ago | (#16164043)

PS2 is down to $129, has been for sometime. It's stayed that high because of high demand. When I bought mine, I had to go to a couple electronics stores to find one. This was less than a year ago. Expect the price to drop to $100 when the ps3 picks up steam.

The ps3 will drop a little faster, because competition will be tougher this gen. Sony got lucky and killed Sega early, and dominated the market after that. Microsoft was too new and Nintendo's pissed off or alienated too many people (e.g. Namco, Square, etc). Now Microsoft's established, and unlike Sega not going anywhere and Nintendo's got a console that's profitable right out the door and fistfuls of DS fueled cash just in case.

Enough, Zonk. Enough. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161715)

You gave it your best shot for the past year with your Sony and PS3 tirades, FUD, snide commentaries.

All realtime PS3 titles:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748483/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2628 [gametrailers.com]

http://www.level5.co.jp/products/shirokishi/index. html [level5.co.jp]

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748480/vids_1.h tml [ign.com]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p1.html [ign.com]

The PS3 is just over a month away from hitting the shelves in the US and Japan. Both pricepoint versions now have HDMI standard.

Give the console world a rest and let all of us enjoy the next month in peace. If that means you have to go throw yourself on your bed and have a good cry, please do so. It's time to move on Zonk.

Re:Enough, Zonk. Enough. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161841)

No kidding! You know, most of us are also guilty of buying into the negative hype machine that is going against Sony right now. Heck, I was even guilty of it for the longest time, but my problem was not feeling I had seen enough "games" for the system. I have been checking out the TGS footage, though, and I am starting to get psyched for the PS3. The updated MGS4 trailer which actually showed gameplay footage, Virtua Fighter 5 looks fantastic, Virtua Tennis is a great party game no matter what system, and Ninja Gaiden Sigma looks smooth. As a gamer, I am pretty pumped by what the Wii, PS3, and even the 360 (which has been really lackluster so far IMHO, still waiting for Halo 3) represent. It is a good time to be a gamer.

Re:Enough, Zonk. Enough. (1)

Manmademan (952354) | about 8 years ago | (#16161941)

I'm too lazy to link to it, but the video trailer for "Afrika" is positively mindblowing. I'm not sure what kind of game it will eventually BE (will you play as one of the animals? As an unseen explorer?) But I don't think I've seen anything THAT detailed on any system- PC OR console. If these are what first gen Ps3 games are capable of, I can't wait to see what's coming next.

Re:Enough, Zonk. Enough. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161958)

Informative? Let's see, we have RIIIIDGGGE RAAACCCER!!11!! and a bunch of games I've never heard of before (despite a bunch of them being sequels). Yay, real-time movies of cutscenes spliced randomly!

Beyond the pretty pictures, what's your point? So the PS3 can make pretty pictures, I think everyone knows that. That does nothing to combat:

1. No release titles anyone cares about.

2. Ridiculously expensive price tag. $600 for a console?! (Keep in mind, with a 20/80 split, most people will have to get the $600 version since it's the only one available.)

3. Requires a new TV to make the most of. I'm not spending $1000 for an HDTV, not that you'd find an 1080p TV that cheap anyway.

So, why exactly should I buy a PS3? I'll be getting a Wii at release, but until the PS3 drops below $250 I'm not going to consider it. (Of course, HDTVs would have to drop below $250 before I'd consider them, so even if the PS3 hits $250 without an HDTV it's still out of the question.)

The reality is that, while pretty moving pictures are neat, they do nothing to offset the insane cost required to take advantage of them. Your pretty pictures do nothing to change that core fact.

Re:Enough, Zonk. Enough. (4, Informative)

Milktoast (3812) | about 8 years ago | (#16162095)

If you look on the games section, Zonk has 3 stories about the PS3, two of them are positive about the console. But yes the PS3 has gotten some negative press lately, and not just here at /. It's not his fault that general reaction around the PS3 has been negative as hell lately. Not everyone has your fanboy-colored glasses on.

Personally I'll wait to see if the PS3 is going to have some decent games into buying-into the system as you seem to have already.

 

So very tired of this... (4, Interesting)

Fr05t (69968) | about 8 years ago | (#16161742)

Seriously... come on guys. I personally plan to wait until all 3 consoles are out for a while, then see if one (or maybe more) have the games, and features I want. Maybe Sony will give me what I want, and I'll be willing to pay them for it - maybe they won't.

MS has failed to impress me with the 360 and their game line up thus far. To be honest though I am hopeful / excited about the Wii, but you never know it might turn out to be a turd. Point is there is so much smoke and mirrors, and hype around console launches it's stupid to speculate and get all worked up about every half baked press release and "insider speculation".

Re:So very tired of this... (1, Redundant)

ElleyKitten (715519) | about 8 years ago | (#16161823)

I'm not even looking at the PS3 until FFXIII comes out. RPGs are Playstations' strong point (at least for me) so until they get some Final Fantasies and some lesser-known good ones, I don't care.

XBox 360 I think has some decent games. DOA4 and Enchanted Arms look cool. But, two good games does not warrant a $400 purchase, so, waiting for price drop and better games.

The Wii... well, I have high hopes for it, but I'm getting Zelda on 'Cube and waiting to see how well this wiimote thing works out.

I never buy consoles at launch date. If you wait a little, you pay less and get a game you really want, as opposed to something that kinda looks fun amoung the few that are available. Also, you avoid getting a console that takes a nosedive like the Dreamcast did.

Re:So very tired of this... (2, Interesting)

_xeno_ (155264) | about 8 years ago | (#16162031)

I think you've hit on Sony's real problem: I don't care about any of the games being released now. Can the PS3 survive long enough for the games I actually want to play to make it out on it?

The games I'm excited about aren't going to be coming out until late 2007 at the earliest. There's no way I'm buying a PS3 at launch. I'll be waiting until the price comes down enough that I can afford it. Well, not afford, but until the price comes down to what I'm willing to pay, and what I'm willing to pay depends heavily on what games are available for it.

The Wii... well, I have high hopes for it, but I'm getting Zelda on 'Cube and waiting to see how well this wiimote thing works out.

That's essentially my plan too. The Wii is the only console I've considered buying on launch (unless buying a DS Lite on its launch day counts...), but my plan right now is to wait until January of next year and see what the reaction to it is before making any final decission.

I'll definitely want to try it out at the store once the floor models are released...

On a somewhat related topic, does anyone know if the PS3 supports DVI out? I don't have an HDTV, but I do have a nice DVI-compliant LCD monitor...

Re:So very tired of this... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | about 8 years ago | (#16162310)

Yes, it supports DVI out, you can buy HDMI to DVI adapters.

I figure thats what Sony was expecting PS3 owners would do until HDMI TV's dropped in price, hook them up to monitors.

Re:So very tired of this... just no games excite (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16162331)

I think you've hit on Sony's real problem: I don't care about any of the games being released now. Can the PS3 survive long enough for the games I actually want to play to make it out on it?

I agree, the problem is that there's nothing there to excite us. All the exciting games are either Nintendo Wii or they're cross-platform and thus mean we can play Sim: Island on the Wii and Spore on the Wii just as easily as on the PS3.

Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem - not a good strategy. Pointing out that one is dropping the price in Japan while not dropping it in the US and Europe just makes us madder.

Games are region free (1)

Fr05t (69968) | about 8 years ago | (#16162588)

"Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem"

From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.

Re:Games are region free, if encoded thus (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16162615)

From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.

Should be and are is not the same. Sure, if Sony got it's act together and realized why Nintendo was eating Sony's shorts, they could get a clue stick and kill their region-encoded games they've been pushing, and not be so DRM-heavy, but the reality is they rely on region-encoding far more than Nintendo is planning to be.

Nintendo got a ride on the non-DRM clue train and decided that there were vast untapped markets in the US for formerly Japan-only games - Sony is watching the clue train go by, but showing no signs of jumping on board. They're too high and mighty to do that ...

Re:Games are region free, if encoded thus (1)

Fr05t (69968) | about 8 years ago | (#16162679)

Not sure what exactly you are trying to say - guessing you are a rabbit frothing at the mouth fan boy.

It has been said over and over there will be NO region restrictions on games with the PS3. I don't recall hearing anything about region restrictions being on, or off for the Wii. Either way we aren't going to know until November what either system really delivers so why don't was save the out of the ass speculation until then.

Re:Games are region free, if encoded thus (1)

shimage (954282) | about 8 years ago | (#16163022)

Re:Games are region free (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | about 8 years ago | (#16162907)

From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.
I don't speak Japanese so that's not so helpful.

Re:So very tired of this... (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | about 8 years ago | (#16161881)

No kidding. There comes a point in every launch buildup...where the vast majority of the console facts are on the table, and it becomes pointless to analyze it further until the systems are all actually playable by the average Joe and they get to see the mass market's reaction.

I for one will not be buying a system until I can demo all 3. And until then, I'll continue to stick my fingers in my ears and make absurd noises at all these hacks who have nothing better to write about than "Can Sony save itself after what could be called the potentially worst console release buildup in history?"

Short answer? No. Now go away.

Re:So very tired of this... (1)

bahwi (43111) | about 8 years ago | (#16162385)

That's just not how slashdot works. How can you form your own opinion when we're trying to form it thru a means of mass collective that always leads to something stupider. Didn't you read the summary, it had a jab at sony? That translates into we all hate sony.

It will be debated, argued, and "discussed" by means of flame wars in the comments, the loudest people will be summed up, and it will be repeated in either a dupe, with possibly another jab at sony, or, if the comment tide turns (and by that I mean the loudest people on top) then it will praise sony and laugh at the foolhardy 360 and Wii.

But seriously, I agree with you. So far, the 360 just isn't worth it. Sorry, let's talk price vs. quality. There's no games I want to play on it. So, that's 0 games for $300/$400 bucks? Are you kidding me? The wii? Let's just say my last nintendo was a SNES, and I think that console had some of the best games ever to be released, but Nintendo hasn't done it for me afterwards.

At least the PS2 has a few games I enjoy, but that doesn't mean the PS3 will, and that doesn't mean games I like won't get to the Xbox, or the Wii, but this isn't over, and everyone will choose. Right now, I'm happy just having a PC.

In a word.... (1)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | about 8 years ago | (#16161797)

Can Sony Convince the World?

No.

I'll admit I'm biased, but since it's the entire world we're talking about....

Agreed. (1)

supabeast! (84658) | about 8 years ago | (#16161821)

TFA is quite right - Sony execs have been too full of themselves for too long, and it's hurt them again and again. My favorite arrogant Sony moment was a rather infamous interview that Sony did in boot magazine about how Vaio systems were about to conquer the desktop market, because Sony had realized that Moore's law needed to "be thrown out the window" and consumers really just needed high-margin, overdesigned PCs that did what big manufacturing companies like Sony wanted them too. The new Vaio desktops were then launched, immediately bombed, and within a month of the magazine hitting the stands Sony had publicly announced that it was going to be scaling back its desktop line and being just another PC manufacturer, instead of conquering the world with the Vaio concept.

"When everyone said the price of the PS3 was... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16161828)

"When everyone said the price of the PS3 was rather high, Sony told everyone that 'people will buy it no matter what."

Well, the price is the price... Sony clearly doesn't want to lose money on the console like Microsoft does with the XBOX.

While there's some valid points here, Sony not bending over backwards every which way for the customer doesn't mean that they're "arrogant," but rather that they for some reason choose to make the PS3 a profitable venture.

Re:"When everyone said the price of the PS3 was... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16163632)

How do you know they're not still losing money?

I have to go against the grain here... (4, Insightful)

Rifter13 (773076) | about 8 years ago | (#16161876)

People want Playstations. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Ps2, and the Xbox. The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The PS3 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (2, Insightful)

Thansal (999464) | about 8 years ago | (#16161997)

The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2.


Exept games.

The XBox had awsome sports games and racing games and a few (I can think of about 6-7) REAL AAA titles (This is counting the games that are exclusive, or are heavily tied to the system).

The PS2 simply has more GOOD games then the XBox (I am not talking about games that are fun to play, I am talking about games that you know you are going to be playing again and again for a while).

XBox got it (mostly) Right by including online play for alot of their games. I say mostly b/c their subscription model sorta bites, it is kinda like having 2 ISPS, one that provides you with your connection, and the other that provides you with your "content" (think AOL for BB).

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

Rifter13 (773076) | about 8 years ago | (#16163843)

I agree about the online offering for Xbox Live. Very cool service, but obnoxious how much it costs.

The Xbox has had more than 6-7 AAA titles. You have to include games that are not exclusives. I have not bought a PS2 game in many years. I am going to probably, buy Guitar Hero soon. That is the first PS2 game in a LOT of years that has my attention. I have not looked at PS2 games for a few years, in general. The only game I am still annoyed was PS2 exclusive, was Soul Calibur 3. I have NO clue why it was PS2 exclusive... it really makes no sense.

Xbox games have FAR more replayability because of online. There are games that have come out on both systems, that have MUCH longer legs on the Xbox, because of its online offerings. Not to mention, the graphics are far better.

As for your assertion about good PS2 games, I completley disagree. I STILL play halo and Halo 2. I can't remember the last game I played on the PS2. And I bought the PS2 on launch, while the Xbox I waited quite a while to get.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

Shadarr (11622) | about 8 years ago | (#16164170)

The Xbox has had more than 6-7 AAA titles. You have to include games that are not exclusives.
There are some games that are system-sellers. They are games that people want to play bad enough to buy a whole new system. Games like Final Fantasy, Halo, Guitar Hero and (for the first six months) GTA 3 and Resident Evil 4. By definition, cross-platform games cannot be system-sellers because you can play them on any system. Sure, most cross-platform games are better on the XBox, but that doesn't sell systems because people just look at the library and see they can get the game for PS2. Conversely, the PS2 has a whole whack of really good exclusives, and those are the games that sell systems.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16162037)

"People buy brands"

Yeah, brands like Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo and Metal Gear...

But you've missed something... (4, Interesting)

ScislaC (827506) | about 8 years ago | (#16162070)

Yeah, some people want PlayStations, others want games only available on the PS2 (Square-Enix games for example), and some others also have an investment that's worthless without replacing their PS2... It seems that the PS2 sales numbers are quite misleading due to the fact that so many current PS2 purchases are people replacing their broken PS2s, not "new" users. If you've invested a few hundred (or thousand) dollars in your PS2 and it doesn't work anymore, as much as you may not want to purchase a same name replacement due to your experience, you've already spent so much on the games and peripherals that it's not worth it to switch. Of the 11 people I know who purchased a PS2 at launch, 8 of them have had to replace their systems over the past 3 years. For the average consumer there is definitely a good amount of brand purchasing though, look at the iPod or RAZR (or an ungodly number of other products). I definitely agree there. But, for every PS2 owner I know, I also know an XBOX owner... and to tell you the truth a good number of those people own both actually. ;)

Re:But you've missed something... (2, Interesting)

Manmademan (952354) | about 8 years ago | (#16162226)

Of the 11 people I know who purchased a PS2 at launch, 8 of them have had to replace their systems over the past 3 years...
The plural of anecdote is not "data." Of the 6 or 7 individuals I know who own a PS2, only one has had to replace his and that guy's a slob. Regardless, there's a 60-70 million unit gap (depending on how you interpret shipped vs. sold) between the Ps2 and the GC or Xbox. to put it in perspective, even the NES only managed to sell about 70 million or so during it's entire lifetime. You can't attribute all of that to broken consoles. Sony clearly did something right with the Ps2, and consumers are happy with it, still buying over 30,000 of them a week.

Re:But you've missed something... (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | about 8 years ago | (#16162573)

I always wondered about that theory that Sony sells so many consoles because they break. I, at least, wouldn't buy 2 or three or more consoles because they kept breaking, I would sell my games and buy something more durable. Also, if everyone's consoles broke, I'm sure that eventually people would just stop buying them, so dupes can't be that significant of the sales.

Re:But you've missed something... (1)

milkman_matt (593465) | about 8 years ago | (#16162876)

Man, my first ps2 lasted a looooooooong time... I don't even know how long it was, I just replaced it about 6 months ago. The laser started having issues at one point, I tried to crack it open and work on it myself but that didn't work. Called Sony and asked them how much it'd be to repair (I have to have had the console for 2 or 3 years by this point and had broken the 'do not break this seal' sticker) and they said to mail it in to them and they'd fix it and send it back (like a 3 week turnaround, though). Turns out they had a branch (for lack of a better word) about 10 miles from me. They let me just drop it off there on my lunch break, I picked it up the next day on break for free, didn't charge me a cent. Experiences like that make me want a ps3, but with the price tag making an XB360 look reasonable, and the fact that it looks like not one person in that company is on the same page as another, I'm really starting to doubt the ps3, unfortunately.

Yeah I want a PlayStation (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | about 8 years ago | (#16162272)

Yes, I want a PlayStation, but I still believe I'll be getting far more out of the Wii. I've got the 360, and I'm going to get the PS3. I don't want to miss out on any games that will remain exclusive to any console, that's the only reason. I'll still be playing the Wii for 90% of the games, and the other two for whatever Final Fantasy or Gran Turismo or GTA exclusive games they have, and that's it. If I was only planning on getting one console, it would most definitely be the Wii. I'd probably still want a PlayStation, but not as much as I want a Wii.

Re:Yeah I want a PlayStation (1)

Petrushka (815171) | about 8 years ago | (#16163741)

You are a marketer's dream come true. (Even so, I'm happy for you if you're happy.)

Re:Yeah I want a PlayStation (1)

Rifter13 (773076) | about 8 years ago | (#16163806)

I own all 3 last gen systems. Xbox, PS2, and GC. The Xbox was the last one I bought. I bought the PS2 on launch day, and played one PS1 game in it. I don't know that I buy that backwards compatiblity stuff. It is nice, but I own a next-gen console, I want next gen titles. My plan, at the moment, is to pick up a 360, and then a Wii. Eventually, I will probably get a PS3.

It seems that most games are going to be multi-platform. I think owning one, will not be as big of a deal... unless you like Nintendo stuff. First party Nintendo products are generally top-notch.

Re:Yeah I want a PlayStation (1)

Shadarr (11622) | about 8 years ago | (#16164176)

Backwards compatibility is one of those things that's mostly a marketing feature. People think they want it, but when it comes down to it most of them don't ever actually use it. But because they think they want it, the feature is worth putting in even if nobody uses it, because by that point they've already bought the product.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (4, Insightful)

RyoShin (610051) | about 8 years ago | (#16162291)

The PS2 had a lot of things going for it, though, than just the Playstation brand when compared to the XBox.

-the PS2 had a DVD player in a time when DVD players were all the rage, but still expensive.
-the PS2 could play PS1 games, so there was more of an incentive for PS1 owners to upgrade.
-the PS2 had a full year head start

On the other hand, Microsoft was an unknown as far as gaming had gone, so people were wary to pick up their console (especially in Japan). The PS2 was as or less expensive than the XBox when the XBox came out, as well, I believe.

Now the positions are somewhat reversed. Microsoft's console has a year's head start, will be the cheaper of the two, and has proved slight dominance over Nintendo (at least in America). Now Sony just has the BluRay and backwards compatibility going for it.

Frankly, I think it's going to be anyone's game this time around.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16162352)

People want Playstations. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Ps2, and the Xbox. The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The PS3 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.

People want Nintendos. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Super Nintendo Entertainment system and the Sega Genesis (or perhaps the Nintendo Entertainment System and the Sega Master System). The Genesis/Sega CD/32X is superior to the Super Nintendo in every way, but it still sells far less than the Super Nintendo. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The N64 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.

Face the facts, when it comes to gaming systems people are far more fickle than in any other market. People will buy into Nintendos being the greatest thing one day and be all for the Playstation the next; brand loyalty alone will not sell an overpriced crappy product.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

Rifter13 (773076) | about 8 years ago | (#16163798)

The SNES fell to the side, compared to the Genesis, for a while... then Sega really screwed up with the 32x, and some of their other add-ons. There wasn't like a 4 to 1 difference, between the SNES and the Genisis. Not to mention, the N64 had a few really bad technical issues... like a 32 meg card, and the fact that the titles cost $10 more than a CD. Nintendo 64 had several big blunders. The blunders that the PS3 have had, I don't consider as major... except maybe price, but I still think that consumers will still buy it in VERY high numbers, despite price.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 8 years ago | (#16163090)

Maybe but I know that most of the people I know that own a playstation are far more excited about the WII. I think in this case it all comes down to cost.
The Wii is cheap and looks really fun.
The PS-3 I might get one when the price drops to $250 or if I find a must have game for it.

Even on slashdot I seen the Wii leading like 20 to one. Let's face it Slashdot is probably a pretty good sampling of people that are willing to drop a few hundred dollars on a game system.
At Christmas parents and kids will have to decide do I want a PS/3 and maybe a game.
Or do I want a Wii and five or six games?
Or do I want a Wii and a 360?
The Wii is probably going to be under a lot more Christmas trees this year than the PS/3
I think a lot of parents have fond memories of Nintendo from their childhood and at the same time the Wii is getting a lot of traction from the hard core. Just look at the line to play the Wii at G3 this year.
I am not a fan boy of any system but I am going to get the Wii. Maybe it is time for a slashdot poll?

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

duerra (684053) | about 8 years ago | (#16163547)

Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2.

You ever think that that's because Microsoft doesn't sell XBoxen anymore? Sony still sells PS2's.

Re:I have to go against the grain here... (1)

Rifter13 (773076) | about 8 years ago | (#16163784)

Nope, because I am actually going after monthly data, that has been this way, since the Xbox launched. There were a lot of good arguments brought up. But, the facts are, the PS2 soundly kicked the Xbox's butt.

I own all 3 last gen systems. Xbox, PS2, and GC. The Xbox was the last one I bought. I bought the PS2 on launch day, and played one PS1 game in it. I don't know that I buy that backwards compatiblity stuff. It is nice, but I own a next-gen console, I want next gen titles. My plan, at the moment, is to pick up a 360, and then a Wii. Eventually, I will probably get a PS3.

PS no longer the console of exclusive games (2, Informative)

ConfusedSelfHating (1000521) | about 8 years ago | (#16161901)

The Playstation 3 will certainly have a number of exclusive games. It will simply not have the number of exclusive games that the Playstation 2 had. Previously, if a developer wanted to make a game for a single console, PS2 was the optimal one. There are 100 million PS2s out there and less than half that number of Xboxes and Gamecubes combined. Look at the number of games which were only released on the PS2. It made a lot of sense because there was a very large install base.

With the very high price of the PS3 (which Sony appears to be cutting before launch), a lot of developers will hedge their bets with a dual release on the PS3 AND Xbox 360. The Wii's unique controller scheme will prevent direct ports, but the low cost of development should mean more third party developer interest. Now Sony will have to pay for exclusivity, opposed to having the default console.

Even if Sony cuts the price of the PS3 quickly, a lot of the damage has already been done. Many developers who would have created PS3 exclusive games have started Xbox 360 development in parallel. There are a lot of games that will be produced for the Wii on the chance that it takes the dominant position in Japan away from the Playstation brand.

Does anyone honestly believe that there will be 100 million PS3s out there in 2012 and only 50 million Xbox 360s and Wiis combined?

Re:PS no longer the console of exclusive games (1)

jdcool88 (954991) | about 8 years ago | (#16162223)

The '100 million PS2s' comment is pretty misleading. Given PS2s hardware issues, even a *conservative* estimate would put it at more like 80 million *working* PS2s in the wild, and quite possibly less. I do agree with you, though, that Sony no longer has the exclusivity that it once did, and the field will probably look much more level in 10 years. It is unlikely that any console will EVER reach the relative success of the PS2. I could be wrong, though.

Re:PS no longer the console of exclusive games (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | about 8 years ago | (#16163395)

Then the market share of the xbox will be even less, given the number of people who modded it to become a linux box or for watching downloaded movies.

Re:PS no longer the console of exclusive games (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16164362)

Modding isn't nearly as popular as internet forums would lead you to believe. I'd be surprised if even 1% of all Xboxes were modded.

It's the nature of arrogance (2, Insightful)

redelm (54142) | about 8 years ago | (#16161942)

Coming late to the party, people often see pride, arrogance and conceit from one or a few market players. Big Oil, Ma Bell, IBM, Intel, Sony, Microsoft, Google?, and the list goes on.

I think understanding their history is important. The arrogance didn't come from no-where. Each of these is a survivor from a very uncertain start and emerged victorious after bruising competition. This rather naturally makes the managers somewhat self-satisfied and complacent. And sows the seeds of their subsequent demise.

In a sense, all victories are Pyrrhic.

We know too much... (2, Interesting)

leland242 (736905) | about 8 years ago | (#16162066)

Joe Gamer doesn't care about E3 press releases, or some interview at the (insert city) Game Show. He knows his PS2 kicks ass and he heard from a buddy that the PS3 is coming out this year.

"Woah! I gotta get that!" he says...

That is what the average gamer is thinking. Sony is proving themselves to be arrogant and is completely shooting themselves in the foot...but maybe not to thier detriment.

The PS3 will sell out at lauch. There is no question Sony will sell a ton of systems - but I think it is overdelivering the goods. I feel the same way about Xbox, but at least they aren't shoving HD-DVD down everyone's throat.

The Wii is going to be the best choice for right now - the PS3 or Xbox are the right choice in about - oh, $300 worth of price drops...which should take enough time to ensure that most folks have some kind of high-def tv.

Re:We know too much... (4, Funny)

MMaestro (585010) | about 8 years ago | (#16162577)

"Woah! I gotta get that!" he says...

And then he sees the price tag...

"Woah! I can't afford that!"

Look Past The Launch Price (1)

Naughty Bob (1004174) | about 8 years ago | (#16162257)

Most sensible people would have to be disappointed with Sony's recent shenanigans, obv. But given that they're launching just before Christmahanukkwanza, with a relatively small number of units, the alternative would be to hand the profit over to the eBay scalpers. When serious volumes are available next year, they'll drop in price quickly for sure. Anyone who doesn't wait till then is either rich or desperate.

Dropping to 410USD six months later (1, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16162273)

Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short.

They've already lost not just mindshare - of hardcore and midcore gamers - they've lost Developer mindspace, as many have already rejigged their games to make sure they now are releasing Wii games.

They still have games that cost $10 extra than what a Wii game does.

They still have an overly FPS and Sports focus that gives them no growth areas, while the Wii is expanding into uncharted territory and even importing Japanese and Chinese games into Euro and US markets.

They still have the DRM and Blu-Ray mentality that just makes everyone want to do something else - anything else - to avoid them.

So, no, they can't convince the world.

Will they break even? No. They've already lost a lot on this, and they know it - had to scale back shipments as a result. They may even make number 1 in Japan - due to loyalty factors of Japanese gamers, but they are more likely to place number 2 or hold neck and neck with Nintendo.

They've damaged their ability in both Europe and the US to do better than number 2.

And, unlike Microsoft, they don't have billions of US dollars in free cash sitting around to bleed out for decades to come.

I doubt they're dead, but they're not going to win this platform round - the best they can hope for is a stalemate and aim for a turnaround in late 2007 and 2008.

Re:Dropping to 410USD six months later (1)

Rob Kaper (5960) | about 8 years ago | (#16162953)

Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short.

Why use a metaphor when the real thing is ten bucks and roughly 180 days worse?

Re:Dropping to 410USD six months later (1)

Manmademan (952354) | about 8 years ago | (#16163483)

Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short. They've already lost not just mindshare - of hardcore and midcore gamers - they've lost Developer mindspace, as many have already rejigged their games to make sure they now are releasing Wii games.

To be fair, only the hardest of the hardcore gamers who follow this kind of news religiously even has any IDEA of what the various versions of the Ps3 cost, and their minds were likely made up a loooooooong time ago. Your average japanese gamer won't have any idea until the advertising blitz starts in late october/early november.

Developer wise, given the TREMENDOUS performance gap between the Wii and the Ps3, I find it unlikely that something on the level of resistance: fall of man or metal gear solid 4 could simply be "rejigged" in a few months into a Wii game, especially over a matter of a couple of dollars. Developers aren't idiots. They knew the hardware was likely to be pricey.

They still have games that cost $10 extra than what a Wii game does.

We've yet to see any solid pricing on games for the Ps3 OR the Wii, other than a months old quote that essentially said "I don't know, it could be more than 50." In any case, gamers who are REALLY concerned about a $10 difference will likely wait a couple weeks for the inevitable price drops, rent, or trade something in.

They still have an overly FPS and Sports focus that gives them no growth areas, while the Wii is expanding into uncharted territory and even importing Japanese and Chinese games into Euro and US markets.

overly FPS and Sports focus? the Ps3 so far has lost ZERO of its developers from the Ps2, and even has team ninja developing games for them again. Every significant developer in every genre you can think of is on board. As for "importing japanese and chinese games" the Wii is doing no such thing, while the Ps3 actually IS region free for games.

They still have the DRM and Blu-Ray mentality that just makes everyone want to do something else - anything else - to avoid them.

Every console ever made has DRM built into it. Think nintendo wants you to copy it's Gamecube and Wii games? Think again. the rest of your post is so error ridden and full of unwarranted speculation it's not worth refuting.

--

Re:Dropping to 410USD six months later (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16163925)

Are you kidding? Dropping the *tentative* price of a product that ISN'T OUT FOR ANOTHER MONTH is six months too late? Who is it too late for? The price of the ps3 on nov. 11 or 17 (or march 07, ha) is the price that matters.

Those who don't know history... (3, Informative)

RyoShin (610051) | about 8 years ago | (#16162376)

Sony's arrogance is a problem, but I think its history precedes it. After the PS2 launch, there were many, many reports of problems with the PS2, and I don't believe they ever got DVD playback down pat. Even outside of the PS2, Sony has done a lot of things in the past year or two that turn (knowledgable) consumers off from Sony products- the rootkit fiasco has made me very anti-Sony products, to the point that I've passed up things that were exactly as I needed just because they were made by Sony. So, in my case, and others I have talked to, the decision to skip the PS3 was made before the real details were even announced.

This time around, people are going to be wary about buying a $500 system that could break as easily as the PS2 did, and so far BluRay has not taken the world by storm like the DVD did, so having an included player isn't as much of an enticement.

Sony not only has to tone down (and maybe even apologize) for the arrogance, but they will need to make amends for their previous stunts, as well, before the informed consumer will welcome them back into their home.

Re:Those who don't know history... (1)

Drathos (1092) | about 8 years ago | (#16162622)

..and I don't believe they ever got DVD playback down pat.

I considered whatever quirks it had to be a good thing for a while. Before I got my own DVD player, my PS2 was the only thing that would play my copy of The Seven Samurai properly. My roommates Onkyo DVD player would get stuck on the menu or play but skip a couple of chapters in the middle depending on how it was loaded. My computer (Windows or Linux, didn't matter) would play the sound, but not the video. My PS2, on the other hand, would play everything just fine.

Who are we asking? (3, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 8 years ago | (#16162379)

Are we asking the Slashdot crowd or the world?

The PS2 is still outselling the XBox 360. The PS2 still held an extremely dominating lead over Microsoft and Nintendo combined, even though both had arguably superior hardware. Nintendo was cheaper and Microsoft had Live. Still Sony dominated.

Sony is promising a Live-like service, but allowing to play multiplayer online for free. They will have the best hardware. They will have a huge launch in Japan. They have tons and tons of third-party support. They still have plenty of huge exclusive franchises.

The Slashdot crowd speaks daily of Sony's evils. Yet it is Nintendo, not Sony who cut back on the features of their console launch. Wii is $50 more expensive than promised, and still doesn't have DVD support. One of it's biggest features is the ability to purchase again titles we've already purchased multiple times before. Nintendo promised region-free, and then canned that.

Sony in comparison, is going region-free and said they will support Linux and homebrew development. $500 for a PS3 with BluRay, a HDD, HDMI, more processing power, native 1080p and free online pay vs. a $400 XBox with no high-def movie player, no HDMI, weaker processing power, upscaling, and paying for online play? Suddenly, the price does seem considerably more reasonable. Over the course of the console's life, you'll pay the extra $100 in XBox Live fees.

I think Microsoft and Nintendo will offer heavy competition, but especially now that Sony is offering HDMI on the low-end system, and is talking about dropping their price, I have little doubt that they will once again dominate this generation.

Mind you, I buy each console, and I'm no fanboi. But the facts are that Sony has been EXTREMELY dominant, and despite the elite geek crowd turning their nose up at Sony, the masses still seem to love them. Conversely, you hear alot on the Net about Nintendo love, but other than handhelds, their home console division has steadily declined ever since the days of the NES. The opinions you read about online do not necessarily represent the actual masses.

Re:Who are we asking? (3, Insightful)

Animats (122034) | about 8 years ago | (#16162419)

The PS2 is still outselling the XBox 360.

The PS2 is $129. That helps. A lot.

Remember, to most of the buyers, who are parents, these things are toys.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 8 years ago | (#16162513)

"Furthermore, according to the NPD Group's TRST data, the Xbox 360 is actually off to a slower start than the original Xbox. Looking at retail sales for the respective consoles' first nine months shows the Xbox at 2.55 million units and the Xbox 360 at 2.21 million units."

Microsoft has been advertising like mad, and really pushing the 360. The original XBox had the anti-Microsoft sentiment, and despite having tons more launch titles, a free (gimped) Live service, and being the first to launch in the next gen, the 360's launch hasn't even surpassed the XBox's launch.

Sony was second to launch with the PS1 (after the N64) and dominated. They came after the Dreamcast with the PS2 and dominated. In both cases the PS1 was more expensive than the N64 and the PS2 was more expensive than the Dreamcast.

Sony won't dominate early with a $500 console. But by the '07 Christmas season, Sony will pull in front.

Re:Who are we asking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16163528)

That's weird, I seem to be getting some interference from the planet where the N64 was released before the Playstation. Trying to correct now...

Um... (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 8 years ago | (#16164135)

I thought the target demographic for gamers had long since switched to 18 to 23 years old, and that game players were getting to be a pretty old lot. [citation] [theesa.com] . Yeah, kids are important, but they don't matter as much as they used to.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

masterzora (871343) | about 8 years ago | (#16163160)

Wii is $50 more expensive than promised

Really? The way I remember it, it was promised to be "no more than $250", which is precisely true. Plus we get a game with it that we weren't promised. The Wii is priced exactly as promised.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 8 years ago | (#16163840)

Both Nintendo and Microsoft promised at E3 that you could buy a $400 Premium XBox and a Wii for less than the cost of the $600 PS3. I'll let you do the math.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | about 8 years ago | (#16163188)

Huge launch in japan? there will 100k units in japan for launch. The games that will drive the japanese to buy the system in droves will be there until late '07 at the earliest. (mgs4 and ff13) >>Sony in comparison, is going region-free and said they will support Linux and homebrew development if you believe the linux/homebrew bit will get real support I've a swamp in florida to sell ya.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 8 years ago | (#16163900)

Sony is still saying (though I doubt it) that they will push 6 million worldwide by March. On launch day, Japan won't have many units.

The XBox 360 has only sold 2.2 million in 9 months. If Sony can manage to sell 3 million, they'll take the lead right away. Out of those six million, I wouldn't be shocked if they sell 2 million in Japan by Spring.

Sony's own website lists 30 launch titles, including FFXIII, FFXIII Vs. and MGS4. Will they hit the exact launch window? They don't have to. If they're six months late, they'll still probably sell all six million units by March like they're saying.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | about 8 years ago | (#16164005)

Kojima himself said that MGS4 wouldn't be done till late 07 at the earliest. FF13's release date is still TBA.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Thanatos69 (993924) | about 8 years ago | (#16163468)

Wii is $50 more expensive than promised


Just wondering where you are getting this? They never said it would be $200, they merely said it will be priced comparable to past systems that they have released. There was a big hoopla on slashdot that said it would be $200 but last time I checked, slashdot does not dictate the prices of products. It's $250, comes with Wii Sports, I still think it's a pretty good deal compared to everything else in this generation.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

PoderOmega (677170) | about 8 years ago | (#16163599)

I don't have mod points to mod up your comment, so I'll mention that slashdotters were speculationg that the price would be $200, but no one at Nintendo ever promised it to be $200. There was just speculation by people outside of Nintendo, then an an annoucement of price by Nintendo... $250, quit crying.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 8 years ago | (#16163868)

Nintendo and Microsoft both promised you could buy a $400 XBox 360 and a Wii together for less than the $600 for the premium PS3 package.

Re:Who are we asking? (1)

justchris (802302) | about 8 years ago | (#16164378)

I understand what you're saying, but have you considered that the number 1 competition the PS3 has to face is not the Xbox 360 or the Wii, but the PS2? There's a very real possibility that the PS2 could end up being the dominant platform of the next generation as well, if developers continue to support it with new games.

people use an xbox for gaming? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16162431)

NT

No PS3 for me, at least not until a few years (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 8 years ago | (#16162581)

All I mainly play aside from the few games on my Mac (Diablo 2 and Starcraft) and my Nintendo DS (Tetris DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, Metroid Pinball, etc) is Zelda and Metroid. Only Nintendo can offer me that. I'm getting a Wii for sure (already pre-ordered), the only thing I have to choose is the color (I'm thinking black, like my Gamecube, though my Nintendo DS is white...).

Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 (Xbox 360) looks promising (nice, uh, graphics...) and so far no announced title for the PS3 appeals to me. As someone once said, "the greatest computer in the world is useless without software to run on it". The same goes for game consoles. As for the whole "HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray" or even Wii vs Xbox360/PS3, I don't plan on upgrading my 36" CRT TV for at least 3-4 years (if not more) so HD is not a concern for me.

You're wrong. (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | about 8 years ago | (#16162825)

2 parter, read both or skip to the one that applies to you (if it does).

Doom a Gloomers about the PS3, you're wrong. Sony's arrogant, sure. Sony's PR is equatable to trying to talk kindly about Bill Gates in the 90s. The steps and mistakes they've been making are well documented here on Slashdot, and they are doing a whole lot of sucking. However, here's a revelation for you... ...the PS3 will still be a major player this coming generation.

You can throw your prophecies of doom left and right, but it's pointless. We may not like Sony and their shenanigans, but barring you personally tracking down and proselytizing every Joe and Jill Gamer it's not going to make a difference. They won't have all this Anti-Sony momentum when they walk into Gamestop, they'll just have money and choices.

Nintendo screwed up a lot of things with the Nintendo 64. They were arrogant, they didn't have many games, and they lost almost all the third party support there was. They still captured a large amount of market share. Sony's in a similar boat. Sure their price is insane, sure they're down to shooting the bloody stumps they have for legs with their PR, sure there'll only be 500000 consoles at launch, but ultimately they're still going to capture a significant amount of market share. It's not going to be like this past generation where it was ubiquitous, but you're not going to see PS3s lying around in stores this Christmas.

In short, you're wrong. Sony isn't about to collapse. Microsoft and Nintendo can't have victory parties yet.

To those of you already celebrating Sony's eminent victory, prepare yourselves for a fall because you're wrong too. Sony isn't going to dominate this generation like they did the last two. It's just not happening. People are primed about the Wii, people are still buying Xbox 360s, and Sony is making an ass of themselves. There's very little they're doing that is conducive to remaining dominant.

You can cite induction all you like, but that's a silly argument for Sony continuing to dominate. Atari cited it back when the video game industry completely collapsed. Nintendo cited it before they lost the majority of their market share to Sony, and now Sony and you are citing it in the face of the toughest competition yet, with the worst showing they've ever offered.

Whether you like it or not, the Xbox 360 has already sold 6 million consoles. That's about a fourth to a third of what they sold the entire past generation, and that's without Halo. They've got their foothold this generation and they're not going anywhere. When you talk to your hardcore gamer friends, the Wii may be laughed at, but talk to Joe Gamer and you'd be surprised. These people have been waving their controllers around since the 80s (and perhaps haven't since then), and are looking forward to doing it again and actually having it WORK!

In short, you're not going to have 100% marketshare. In fact, you'll be lucky if you grab 50% market share. The whole deal is such that this may be the first three way tie the video game industry will see. If you're not ready to accept that each console has merit, you're in for a rude awakening.

To summarize both, Sony is neither ascending to heaven or descending into hell this generation.

Re:You're wrong. (1)

Gnostic Ronin (980129) | about 8 years ago | (#16163349)

Doom a Gloomers about the PS3, you're wrong. Sony's arrogant, sure. Sony's PR is equatable to trying to talk kindly about Bill Gates in the 90s. The steps and mistakes they've been making are well documented here on Slashdot, and they are doing a whole lot of sucking. However, here's a revelation for you... ...the PS3 will still be a major player this coming generation.

You can throw your prophecies of doom left and right, but it's pointless. We may not like Sony and their shenanigans, but barring you personally tracking down and proselytizing every Joe and Jill Gamer it's not going to make a difference. They won't have all this Anti-Sony momentum when they walk into Gamestop, they'll just have money and choices.

***

well, ok. So explain to Average Mom why she should shell out $500 for a new ps3 when she could have a used XBOX360 for $300. She doesn't know about Blu-Ray. She couldn't tell you what Blu-Ray *is*. Her TV probably isn't HDMI (unless she's upper-middle class -- Hi-Def is in the thousand dollars range, which is simply too much for many households to spend on luxury items). She doesn't know any of the game franchises. She'll walk in, money in hand, and realise that she can LITERALLY buy BOTH other consoles (New Wii and used XBOX360) PLUS game or two. This is of course provided that PS3's are actually available at launch (which with the low numbers, is practically impossible). I think Sony will be lucky to still be a contender after about mid-2007.

So you're statement that Sony isn't about to collapse is STUPID. Even if Sony hadn't pissed off almost every "hard-core" fan, the price point is so rediculously high that even those who are interested will still wait at least a few years until the price drops. And those are the ones who don't know about DRM and other Sony idiocy.

To my mind, even though I loved my ps2, I don't see ps3 being around for long. It's probably the Dreamcast of this console gen. It's technically superior, and probably the few that buy one are going to like it, but by the end of the cycle, all of about 10 exclusives will have been released for it, and the few that do get one will put it in the closet and spend time playing XBOX360 or Wii.

Re:You're wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16163566)

You're actually incorrect. The 360 has shipped six million. They've sold something like three million.

Who's arrogant? (1)

east coast (590680) | about 8 years ago | (#16162845)

All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant.

Do you really think that a couple of gamer conventions (even as large as they are) are really going to bring down one of the largest, if not the largest, electronic entertainment companies?

The media really needs to get over themselves and understand their place in the world. They're the ones being arrogant.

This is like the Mel Gibson episode... Sure, we all think it's wrong, we think that Gibson needs to (at least) get a hold of himself but really... how many people do you really think are going to boycott the next Gibson effort? It's laughable how a few talking heads think that they choose who lives and who dies in the entertainment world. This is really no different.

Re:Who's arrogant? (1)

swordgeek (112599) | about 8 years ago | (#16164298)

On the one hand, what you say is true.

On the other hand, Sony is behaving in a classical "company about to self-destruct" fashion.

No, the gamer conventions and the pundits won't bring down Sony. But people are pretty good at subconciously detecting the stench of death on an organisation, and they'll start to avoid Sony, even if they don't know why. If (or when) Sony eventually craters, the same useless pundits will take the credit, but in fact it'll be Sony itself that did the damage.

Of course Sony's on top.... (1)

mjhacker (922395) | about 8 years ago | (#16163440)

... because they have RIIIIIIIIDGE Raaaaacerrrrr!!!!

Re:Of course Sony's on top.... (1)

Ant P. (974313) | about 8 years ago | (#16163927)

Don't forget real-time weapon change, and of course Gran Turismo HD*

*game content sold separately
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