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Sony Warns of PS3 Scams

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the don't-take-any-wooden-consoles dept.

135

GameDaily reports that Sony is warning of scams based around their PlayStation 3 console. The company has apparently noticed enough scamming web-based offers that it felt the need to warn consumers. From the article: "It's become increasingly common with new console launches for some consumers to buy up whole batches of a system, only to sell them immediately on sites like eBay for major profits. Beyond that, however, there are certain even more seedy individuals out there who unfortunately will do anything they can to scam you out of your money completely. They know that some consumers get desperate when it comes to purchasing a newly launched console and they'll do anything they can to exploit that."

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I knew I was being scamed (4, Funny)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16680875)

Yeah I knew that EBgames was trying to scam me the second I saw that $600 price tag ...
No one in their right mind would think a gaming console cost that much money ...

Seriously though, a lot of scams would be less effective if there was a reasonable supply of consoles.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

NinjaFarmer (833539) | more than 7 years ago | (#16680913)

I think this is the first news from/about Sony that I've seen in a year that wasn't negative.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (3, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681123)

You missed the original headline, which was edited before the article went live:

"Sony Warns of PS3 Scams, Eats Puppies"

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681451)

Corrected title: "Sony Warns of PS3 Scams, Eats Nintendo's Puppies"

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682343)

How about: "nintendogs pee on PS3 prototype, production delayed again"?

Good reason for that. (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681167)

I think this is the first news from/about Sony that I've seen in a year that wasn't negative.
It was posted by Zonk, so it's an obvious troll.. he knew enough negative comments would be added to balance everything out.

Re:Good reason for that. (1)

NinjaFarmer (833539) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681345)

It was posted by Zonk, so it's an obvious troll.. he knew enough negative comments would be added to balance everything out.
So he posted this on the assumption that any posting of the words "Sony" and "PS3" (noting that PS3 is not really one word, and combinations can include 0 if one or the other is true) will generate a huge amount of negative commentary to equate to bad press for Sony.

I'd be more surprised at this conclusion if that wasn't the least sick and twisted thing I've heard today.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681021)

No one in their right mind would think a gaming console cost that much money ...
That's why it also plays Blu-Ray discs. Considering the fact that Blu-Ray players currently cost around $1,000 (US), I don't see what you're complaining about.

If you don't have $600 to spend on that sort of device, that's fine.. but don't question the sanity of people who do.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16681183)

And there is where you fail. First and foremost it should be a game console. The PSP was sold and marketed as a do all platform with its movie playing and $25 crap library of films while gaming content suffered. A total of 1 good game near launch and maybe a handful available now while the DS has dominated.

If Sony attempts the same with the PS3, touting its movies over its games, gamers will be as turned off with it as they were the PSP.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681261)

You Are Wrong Because:

Irrelevant Comparisons
Example: A hundred dollars is a good price for a toaster, compared to buying a Ferrari.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (3, Funny)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681427)

Example: A hundred dollars is a good price for a toaster, compared to buying a Ferrari.
Not quite following- does the Ferrari come with a built-in toaster, or can I drive the toaster around at 200MPH?

Re:I knew I was being scamed (3, Funny)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681691)

For $100, I write "Ferari" on the side with a marker.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684401)

An extra $100 and I'll write "Ferrari" on the side and give it spoilers.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

DeadChobi (740395) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683701)

You are more wrong, because:

More irrelevant comparisons.
Superfluous anecdotal evidence.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681263)

Thats great- for the less than 5% of people who have an HD-TV. Of course, a large chunk of those people either already have, or do not want, a bluray player, so it may help 1% or so of gamers. ANd going from the PS2, its probably a shitty BluRay player. Thats great for that 1%. Too bad it fucks over the vast majority of gamers. But wii always have another option.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681379)

Thats great- for the less than 5% of people who have an HD-TV. Of course, a large chunk of those people either already have, or do not want, a bluray player, so it may help 1% or so of gamers. ANd going from the PS2, its probably a shitty BluRay player.
1 in 6 households have an HDTV (from from 1 in 14 two years ago) - note the distinct "upward trend". So yeah, it is great.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682025)

Bullshit. Nowhere near 1 in 6 houses have an HDTV. 1in 6 purchases might be an HDTV, but not 1 in 6 marketshare. Hell, 1 in 6 houses haven't even bought an HDTV since HD started being pushed.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683293)

You know what's great about Internet postings? It's how people can be so certain of themselves and yet not provide fact one to back up that certitude. Go, man, go!

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683919)

You know what's great about Internet postings? It's how people can be so certain of themselves and yet not provide fact one to back up that certitude. Go, man, go!
You know what I like most about Internet postings? The complete alternate personality that people adopt when they're hiding behind a nickname. Think about this sort of conversation in real life -- since when do people carry around documents to prove statistics they mention in a random conversation? Tell me if this conversation ever take place in-person:

(Bob) "Hey Dan, I finally got the new car! Went with the red one."
(Dan) "Bullshit. Do you have any paperwork to prove it?"

That would never happen, because then nobody would enjoy hanging around Dan. I'm not sure what's so different about posting on the Internet (particularly /.), but that constant "prove it or I'm going to tactlessly accuse you of lying" attitude is the reality here. So instead of typing "HDTV one in six" into Google (result #2), the more "acceptable" behavior is to just accuse someone of blatantly lying about whatever they've just posted, with some profanity thrown in for good measure. Sad.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684093)

I agree with you in the main, though I will say that unless I'm giving a patently false statistic ("99% of all mean over 30 have had sex with a dog.") I won't give it in an Internet post without citing my source (with or without a link). By the same token, though, I won't attack someone for a statistic unless I can't find the information myself, and even then I'll ask for the source before biting the person's head off.

I think in most cases behavior like that exhibited by the person to which I was replying is based at least partially on a belief that one's own experience is the same as that of the rest of society. So, if he doesn't have an HDTV and none of his friends or family have one, that means that it's impossible for any significant percentage of the population to have an HDTV (or two, such as in my home). Blinders like that probably do get comfortable after a while, perhaps preventing eyestrain from using the entirety of one's vision.

As to attitudes in general, I have to admit that my personality is very different on the Interweb than in real life. In real life, I snub 90% of strangers who try to talk to me. ;)

Mouth? This is Foot. I'm heading your way. (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683693)

Bullshit. Nowhere near 1 in 6 houses have an HDTV. 1in 6 purchases might be an HDTV, but not 1 in 6 marketshare. Hell, 1 in 6 houses haven't even bought an HDTV since HD started being pushed.
"The report from Leichtman Research Group found that Americans have increased their adoption of HDTV technology in the last two years from one in every 14 households owning an HDTV set, to one in every six."

Toss that into Google if you're interested in any additional information.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (2)

Perseid (660451) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681459)

$600 for a gaming console = insane
$1000 for a Blu-Ray player = insane

Oh, wait. You said I wasn't supposed to do that. Sorry. My bad.

Maybe I'll go out and market a new video disc that has players at $10000 so that when I release my game console at $5000 people will think they're getting a deal...

Re:I knew I was being scamed (3, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682813)

Maybe I'll go out and market a new video disc that has players at $10000 so that when I release my game console at $5000 people will think they're getting a deal...

Ugh! I'd have to get a second job to be able to afford that! But it must be worth it compared to that cheap-ass PS3... when can I pre-order?

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686803)

I'll give you twice as much as Chris_Burke is offering!!!!

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

timster (32400) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681515)

There's nothing about a Blu-Ray player that is particularly expensive to produce, and that $1,000 price is a completely artificial one designed to appeal to early adopters. I certainly question their sanity; in mere months, the price will be less than $300. The ability to play the handful of released Blu-Ray titles in the meantime cannot possibly be worth $700, and barebones players will probably be $150 within a year or so.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681927)

There's nothing about a Blu-Ray player that is particularly expensive to produce, and that $1,000 price is a completely artificial one designed to appeal to early adopters. I certainly question their sanity; in mere months, the price will be less than $300. The ability to play the handful of released Blu-Ray titles in the meantime cannot possibly be worth $700, and barebones players will probably be $150 within a year or so.
Any chance you could provide the source of this information? Particularly, where did you hear that Blu-Ray players will be $150 within one year?

Using this same logic, the price of music CDs and DVDs should be going down pretty soon, since the current high prices are "artificial" as well..

Read : Toshiba cd I think ?!?! (1)

Archfeld (6757) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682949)

Blue ray is going to be a flash in the PAN..A FAILED flash in the pan I think as well, the new 18 gb disc from Toshiba I read about will be on the market soon, are compatible all the way around and can be made in existing factories at VERY LITTLE RETOOL costs. The industry is stuck on recovering their outlay costs before really tooling up for massive blue ray orders which aren't going to appear. Sony is in the end going to eat BlueRay and PSP format just like they ate the minidisc format here in the states.

Re:Read : Toshiba cd I think ?!?! (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683811)

Blue ray is going to be a flash in the PAN..A FAILED flash in the pan I think as well, the new 18 gb disc from Toshiba I read about will be on the market soon, are compatible all the way around and can be made in existing factories at VERY LITTLE RETOOL costs. The industry is stuck on recovering their outlay costs before really tooling up for massive blue ray orders which aren't going to appear. Sony is in the end going to eat BlueRay and PSP format just like they ate the minidisc format here in the states.
I've come to realize that most /. users live in some alternate reality where events like the one you've just described actually happen. In this alternate reality, nobody has an HDTV, the Wii is king, and the PS3 & Blu-Ray format are both complete failures.

Only time will tell, but I'm willing to bet that none of those things will happen (the HDTV comment excluded; that one is already incorrect). Since I have no way to look into the future, I won't waste my time arguing.. but given /.'s general opinion about HDTV (i.e., nobody has one, who needs it, it won't catch on for another 20 years, etc), I can say with absolute certainty that most people here are incredibly narrow-minded when it comes to technology they don't own, or can't afford.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

timster (32400) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685327)

It's pretty much obvious if you examine the history and apply some economics. Modern consumer technology products generally aren't made from expensive raw materials; rather, the companies which sell them incur substantial research, development, and capital costs (to build the sophisticated factories necessary to produce them). In economic terms, the marginal cost is small and the startup cost is high.

Upon startup, supply is naturally very limited due to production ramps and such, while demand is high among a relatively small group of enthusiasts. Thus, prices of new tech products are high upon release. This is true of processors, RAM, GPUs, etc. It's not that the marginal cost of the new product is any higher than that of the old one; it's simply that a supply-demand calculation shows that the high prices will be the most profitable. Over time, the enthusiasts start to run out and your factory is producing more product for the same small cost in raw materials. As the supply-demand situation shifts, the most profitable price declines sharply. That's why you can buy a DVD player at Wal-Mart for $50 now.

To bring this back to the PS3, Sony has decided that a synergy exists between their Blu-Ray movie format and the PS3 game format, so they are shipping the PS3 with Blu-Ray despite its current, inconvenient place at the top of this price curve. Sony isn't as worried about the PS3 price as some would expect because they don't yet have enough for the enthusiasts anyway and they can cut the price later.

Your example of music CDs and DVDs is irrelevant because the creation of new albums and movies requires an ongoing infusion of development money, whereas the Blu-Ray R&D is a one-time expense. A better example would be the price of a CD-R; I remember when they were $20 each.

It's pretty much well-known that Sony is going to be selling PS3s for below-cost for a while, but that doesn't make them a particularly great deal from a consumer's point of view.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686283)

Your example of music CDs and DVDs is irrelevant because the creation of new albums and movies requires an ongoing infusion of development money, whereas the Blu-Ray R&D is a one-time expense. A better example would be the price of a CD-R; I remember when they were $20 each.
It's not irrelevant - Sony is not the only company making Blu-Ray players. Do you think Pioneer can just pocket all the profit they make from their $1000 Blu-Ray devices..? No way - some (if not most) of that money goes back to Sony, the company responsible for the R&D you're talking about (just like the majority of the money paid for music CDs goes back to the label/artist).

Plus, I don't disagree that basic economics apply here.. but basic economics do not produce an exact price after an exact period of time (e.g., $150 after one year).

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Gospodin (547743) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682247)

Doesn't "artificial price" mean "price I'm unwilling to pay"?

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681541)

That's why it also plays Blu-Ray discs.

But Blu-Ray is teh suck. Why I want to buy some orphaned format. Believe me, Sony don't know how to make a standard. Beta-Max, Memory Stick, others. They always find way to lose.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682183)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Associat ion [wikipedia.org]

Will you people start looking before you talk? It's not Sony's Blu-Ray vs everyone elses' HD-DVD, it's Properitary format 1 vs Properitary format 2. Oh right DVD is good enough. and CD is good enough for PC games... and 640k is all we'll ever need....

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682675)

Blu-Ray is supported by a myriad of corporations, much like the other famous Sony-based(it was a Sony/Phillips collaboration) standard [wikipedia.org] . Its competitor, HD-DVD, is supported by...Microsoft.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682721)

My store sells IDE bluray drives for $750. These are burners too. (No idea why we still don't have SATA Blu Ray drives, but that's annother matter...) Our cost on them is like $600, IIRC.

You can now purchase a stand alone bluray player for around $400 (first link on a quick froogle search) [tvauthority.com] .

Now, that may still make the PS3 a good value, *IF* one cares about bluray. But let's not overstate the value that it has. PS3 without bluray would probably cost roughly $400 (A semi-educated guess as to the true cost of making these drives) less to manufactuer. That savings could either be passed entirley on to the consumer to get more into people's living rooms, it could be used to keep the PS3 from being as much of a loss leader for Sony, or a combination of the two.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683285)

Just need to correct myself. That player I linked was not bluray. It's in the bluray/HDDVD catagory on the site I linked from. That's what Iget for doing a 30 second search on froogle.

I can't seem to find Bluray players for under $700, which makes me wonder why the burner we carry is so much less...

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682651)

Go adjust the $200 figure of the original SNES for inflation. You get $600.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Cerium (948827) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684927)

According to this page [bls.gov] , the $199.00 price point in 1991 [wikipedia.org] inflates to $296.45 in 2006. The original NES came closer at $375.25 (or $471.40 for the deluxe set), but that's still a tad shy of the $600.00 price point.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

Fhqwhgadss (905393) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686801)

Go adjust the $200 figure of the original SNES for inflation. You get $600.

Go adjust $2500 figure of my 486-based computer for inflation. You get $7500.

Go adjust $490 figure of the average 1997 DVD player for inflation. You get $1000

Electronics' pricing generally doesn't work that way.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683001)

My NES in 1985 was 250 and adjusted for inflation is 443.67.

Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685201)

and it probably came with a game or two...or three.

Reasonable Supply (Re:I knew I was being scamed) (1)

neurocutie (677249) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683565)

Seriously though, a lot of scams would be less effective if there was a reasonable supply of consoles.
mmm, and how does one create a "reasonable supply" ? Supposing you *knew* that you could sell 20 million PS3's within the first month of release... How you do create a supply of 20 millions PS3's ? Hmm... you either build a factory that can make 2mil/month and store them up for 10 months (but then why wouldn't you just start selling them right away), or you build a (very expensive) factory that can make 10mil/month and start making them a month or two before release. But then what exactly do you do with a factory that can make 10mil/month when the steady state demand levels out to 1mil/month ?

Re:Reasonable Supply (Re:I knew I was being scamed (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684371)

By "Reasonable Supply" I was not saying that Sony needed to supply enough for every potential PS3 owner on day one ...

How I would define "Reasonable Supply" is enough units to (nearly) satisfy everyone who wants to pre-order, and a steady stream that (roughly) matches demand following the launch. Now it may not be a popular opinion, but there is no reason why there should be massive shortages of a console at launch; from past system launches it should be clear to everyone that if you don't have 500,000 - 1,000,000 systems available at launch and about 100,000 - 200,000 systems available per week (all per region) your supply can not come close to meeting demand.

Other PS3 scams include... (4, Insightful)

iapetus (24050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16680921)

* Committing to a worldwide simultaneous launch, then delaying the launch in the largest of your markets
* Preventing consumers from importing PS3s by driving companies that try to export them out of business with multiple spurious lawsuits
* Presenting CGI as real-time footage

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#16680965)

and:

*claiming the controller uses six axes
*claiming vibration impedes motion sensing
*claiming there were giant crabs in medieval Japan (there were ... but not as big as the one depicted in the demo)

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

catprog (849688) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682319)

It does use 6 3 axis for motion 3 axis for tilting The only things though are correct

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (2, Insightful)

justchris (802302) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682977)

That's still only 3 axes. It does not matter whether you are moving along the x-axis or rotating around the x-axis, you're still only utilizing one axis of motion, you are simply used 2 different types of motion, angular and linear. This does not spontaneously create a new axis, no matter how complex your movements might be.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (2, Informative)

Maserati (8679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683355)

Three axes of translation + three axes of rotation = 6-axis controller.

Get over it.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

justchris (802302) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684403)

Yes, I understand the point they are trying to make, I'm just explaining that it does not take into consideration the actual definition of axis.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

Burpmaster (598437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685457)

I'm just explaining that it does not take into consideration the actual definition of axis.

Sure it does. The controller is returning a point in six-dimensional space, so there are six axes.

How many dimensions does it take to use a PS3? (1)

@madeus (24818) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686387)

"a point in six-dimensional space"

No rumble, requires more spatial dimentions than are known to exist. Lame.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

Ponzicar (861589) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682723)

I'm happy as long as I have real time weapon switching!

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

rkanodia (211354) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683391)

Indeed. Without the revolutionary new RTWS, how would you inflict Massive Damage[tm]?

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (4, Informative)

J. T. MacLeod (111094) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683801)

Six axes:
1. X
2. Y
3. Z
4. Roll
5. Pitch
6. Yaw

Count 'em. Six. I'm not a Sony apologist. Just a pedant.

Of course, Sony are experts on seedy individuals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16681375)

Whatever happened to the Sony that used to make great hardware?

My guess is: the engineers were enslaved by lawyers and other parasites and slowly sucked to death.

Bye bye Sony, the old creative one, you'll be remembered as a distant memory.

Re:Of course, Sony are experts on seedy individual (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682703)

Sony still makes good hardware. Their $10 headphones are still better than any other brand of headphones costing less than $50. And the Sony HDTV upstairs has a much better track record than the Panasonic that was up there but broke...twice.

"CGI"? (1)

iONiUM (530420) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681415)

Technically the graphics in the game are CGI as well as both are generated by computers. I think you meant they used pre-rendered video instead of real-time rendered graphics.

Re:"CGI"? (1)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683321)

Prerendered video in games is commonly called "FMV" whcih is also a bit of a misnomer since the output of any console is video, and it certainly is in FULL motion.

I'd say CGI has passed on to be commonly accepted as "Computer generated video which is not renedered in realtime."

Sorry to be a bastard (1)

SmittyTheBold (14066) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685685)

You forgot the ending of your sentence:

I'd say CGI has passed on to be commonly accepted as "Computer generated video which is not renedered in realtime."
...by morons.

CGI is "computer generated imagery" and has always been a half-assed acronym. I agree with your parent poster's assessment. "Pre-rendered video" is probably the best term to use here, as that's the important distinction. After all, it's all computer-generated, it's all full-motion. It's all video. But some of it is rendered on-the-fly, while the rest has been rendered ahead of time.

If you insist on calling it "CGI," please turn in your geek card and start socializing with people that won't be pedantic. ;)

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

empaler (130732) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682015)

On the positive side, they worded it so it could apply to the Wii as well.

Still, I hate them. Really. I just received the mail order TV tuner card I was going to use for the Wii I was getting shipped from Lik-sang so I could use my monster monitor for it.

Really, not really angry at Sony any more. I just hate them. I really hate them. And I am a god-damned tree-hugging hippie.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682357)

Ok... "Other PS3 scams include"...

I know you are just playing on the headline, and it's cute too. But I'm getting tired of this anti-Sony moderator clique modding up these trolls. +5 Insightful? +5 Drivel.

Committing to a worldwide launch and failing to deliver because of technical breakdowns doesn't constitute a scam. Yes it blows hard for people in the EU, and it's very unfortunate that TECHNICAL PROBLEMS HAPPEN... but they do! It blows my mind that these "technically inclined" people of slashdot can't grasp that technical problems cause drops in production regardless of industry.

Oh this is classic. I love how you implied more than one company was shutdown due to legal fees from litigation with Sony. Can you please cite these companies for us? I know of Liksang. While I agree Sony was heavy handed in their approach, I also understand the risk they face by allowing imports. Regardless of who imported the unit and why, it was NOT certified as a safe product for use in those countries. I think this might put Sony at risk for all sorts of litigation if a dangerous hardware failure occurred. But then again, maybe not. The PS3 should work in any location... although I'm not certain.

While some of the inital E3 footage was "as close as possible to what PS3 can do", it was pre-rendered in some/many/can't remember, not all cases. But if we pull our head out of the sand, we see that NEW trailers and videos have emerged since May 2005. I will go out on a limb here and say that almost all recent trailers for PS3 games (aside from clear pre-rendered footage .. Genji) are rendered in real time. Mind you they do look good, but most PS3 games are still very much video game looking. If you don't believe it, just check out gametrailers.com [gametrailers.com] .

Oh well.

-mofino

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

iapetus (24050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683039)

Yes, I'm playing on the headline and indulging in a little (IMO justified) anger at Sony's recent shafting of Europe. Would be interesting to see how views changed on these matters if it were the US market that received the delayed launch for a change. And if you're not capable of delivering on promises about launch dates, you're better off not making them. Sony has lost more good will by promising a simultaneous launch and then reneging on that promise than it would have done by announcing a staggered launch up front. Whatever the 'technical reasons' for it, it's bad business.

Lik Sang is far from the first company that Sony has sued out of the import market. NuPlayer and ElectricBirdLand spring to mind as examples, since you ask. And thanks for coming back with the Sony li(n)e on why they're doing this for the good of the consumer. But before you parrot that, perhaps you might want to check the power adapter for your PSP, where you'll find the CE mark showing that it conforms to the relevant EU standards:
* CE Marking on a product indicates to governmental officials that the product may be legally placed on the market in their country.
* CE Marking on a product ensures the free movement of the product within the EFTA & European Union (EU) single market (total 28 countries)

Oops. Looks like it was certified as a safe product for use in those countries after all.

This isn't a case of anti-Sony fervour. I probably own more PS2s than you do, and I'm a big fan of all of Sony's gaming hardware to date. But I see it as a reasonable reaction to the way they've treated me, personally, with their recent actions. And particularly the insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads their weak justification for their attack on hardware imports and the blatant lies about why their own management imported PSPs themselves (seriously, it's the most transparent lie in videogaming since Square claimed that they couldn't release Chrono Cross in Europe because it was too difficult to translate into German...)

Sony has simply lost the thread as a manufacturer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16683207)

While I agree Sony was heavy handed in their approach, I also understand the risk they face by allowing imports. Regardless of who imported the unit and why, it was NOT certified as a safe product for use in those countries. I think this might put Sony at risk for all sorts of litigation if a dangerous hardware failure occurred.

That's precisely the kind of thinking that has turned Sony from a great hardware company into a joke and rapidly heading towards insolvency.

If you have the right mentality, you ask your engineers to make products that work everywhere and meet or exceed all the major national standards (it's not as if they're wildly different you know --- well, maybe you don't, but I'm an electrical engineer and I do know, and it's no big deal). Then you don't have to worry about litigation.

And if you have the right mentality, you ask your engineers to make products that work with all media everywhere without restrictions and thus you become a well-reputed brand for that product area among consumers who don't like restrictions. Whereas if you have the wrong mentality you listen to your content licensing and marketting division instead, and you purposely restrict your product. Do you think that that's what the consumer likes?

I don't know why you're defending a company that has completely lost sight of what consumers want, and is instead beating a path in some foreign land of its own imagination. It's completely lost the thread.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682511)

* Committing to a worldwide simultaneous launch, then delaying the launch in the largest of your markets


Last I checked, the PS2 and PS1 had higher sell through in NTSC.

* Preventing consumers from importing PS3s by driving companies that try to export them out of business with multiple spurious lawsuits


Last I checked, each locale has its own laws, regulations and certifications that all electronics must legally pass in order to be safe for the consumer.

* Presenting CGI as real-time footage


Last I check, (when I played it at Tokyo Game Show), LAIR was anything but CGI, and beyond incredible compared to current gen or X360.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

iapetus (24050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683111)

Last I checked, the Financial Times had this to say:
Sony does not provide a breakdown of its sales by region. But last year, Japan accounted for 20 per cent of overall sales of Y7,159bn, while North America accounted for 23 per cent and European countries 26 per cent.
Financial Times [ft.com]

Last I checked, the power supply shipped with a Canadian PSP (and I believe this applies to the models sold in the US and Japan as well) carries the CE mark certifying that it conforms to the relevant European regulations.

Last I checked, Sony had passed off pre-rendered video footage as real-time. The fact that they've since presented real-time footage as real-time doesn't make the original footage any less misrepresented.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685895)

Ah so it should have read:

* Committing (read: Gave initial report) to a worldwide simultaneous launch, then delaying the launch in the largest of your markets (if you combine all of Sony's divisions)
* Preventing consumers from importing PS3s (into regions for which the product hasn't been tested or certified for the local area's electricity and communication standards, and is illegal to use or operate) by driving companies that try to export them out of business with multiple spurious lawsuits
* Presenting CGI as real-time footage (back before they had a completed SKU to run any real time footage on... you know... they should have just... shown nothing... and let Microsoft wow the fickle gamer market)

My mistake. I'm horrible at reading between the lines.

Re:Other PS3 scams include... (1)

iapetus (24050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686361)

Skip 'between the lines' and you're pretty much right. How clear can I make it that the PSP (the hardware which Sony used to put Lik Sang out of business on the basis that you define) is certified for the local area's electricity and communication standards? Again, when I posted that I had the power supply from a Canadian launch unit sitting right in front of me, because unlike yourself I choose to actually make sure I know what I'm talking about before sounding off.

And I don't care whether Sony had a completed SKU at the time - they had pre-production hardware that was capable of rendering in real time. Some of the demos they provided were shown on such kit. They attempted to pass off fake footage as the real thing. All the excuses you can come up with don't change that. If it's a target render intended to match what the final hardware can do then say so clearly.

Honestly, Sony needs to get a better class of apologist. This one's broken.

Good thing I pre-ordered a Wii in person (2, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#16680939)

so I won't need to worry about PS3 pre-order scams at all.

I'll wait until they sell it for $250 USD. I'm in no rush.

Re:Good thing I pre-ordered a Wii in person (1)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681039)

That $250 benchmark ain't gonna spare ya. I am betting the spams and scams will be:

Buy you PS3 direct from Jappan! $250 pre odor now!

Go to http;//www.geocities. com/spamohoy123 - oopsy! no space before com

Pre odor PS3 (1)

krell (896769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681067)

"$250 pre odor now!"

We store them in Sumo's crotch for minimum 3 day for desired effect!"

Re:Good thing I pre-ordered a Wii in person (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681365)

probably. I'll buy mine in person at Costco when I do finally get a PS3, along with an HDTV flat panel - and do it for under $600 including tax.

In a couple of years.

Yeah, "good" thing. (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681293)

I'll wait until they sell it for $250 USD. I'm in no rush.
Sony isn't reselling the PS2 (with a new controller) under a different name, so I think you might be waiting for quite a long time. Hey, at least it's a good excuse not to buy an HDTV!

Re:Yeah, "good" thing. or price/sales curves (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681461)

I can buy a PS2 right now for about $150. In fact, my son went out and did that this summer.

Therefore, I can expect to buy a PS3 in 2009 for about $250. The games will still work the same. And I'll have an HDTV set for $300 USD then (a good one, with no bugs). And the PS3 won't have those early adoption failure rates.

Makes no never mind to me.

Re:Yeah, "good" thing. or price/sales curves (1)

deepb (981634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682001)

And the PS3 won't have those early adoption failure rates.
The PS3 hasn't even been released yet - it's completely impossible to know what the failure rate (or even the internal build quality) is going to be... but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Re:Yeah, "good" thing. or price/sales curves (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682719)

The first releases of any product, no matter the product or manufacturer, are going to have more hardware problems than later releases. Period.

Re:Yeah, "good" thing. or price/sales curves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16683045)

Out of curiosity, how hard is it to type with Sony's cock in your ass?

$250 will buy you 10% of Sony soon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682115)

At the current rate of collapse, this is going to go down as the steepest fall of an international company in history.

Scams? Sony? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16680949)

Are some of these PS3s going to come without a free rootkit, or something? :-)

Scamming it up (3, Insightful)

mrmagicmiked (1016984) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681051)

I had every intention of buying about 5-6 consoles and flipping them on eBay. Hey, everyone's doing it.

Re:Scamming it up or why we sell shrinkwrapped (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681511)

I had every intention of buying about 5-6 consoles and flipping them on eBay. Hey, everyone's doing it.

Just make sure they're not the exploding kind. EBay frowns on that.

Re:Scamming it up (2, Insightful)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681667)

I had every intention of buying about 5-6 consoles and flipping them on eBay. Hey, everyone's doing it.

Not only that, but I am planning to sell the console in one auction and the box in a separate auction. I will write at the bottom in small print: "You are bidding on a PS3 Box only." Some fool will pay me $800 for just the box.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

empaler (130732) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682215)

Somebody not realizing that you're not joking will probably mod you funny.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

Maserati (8679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683377)

Somebody realizing the OP is being evil will probably mod it Insightful. Being out of mod points all I can do is make sarky comments.

Getting more and more off topic (1)

empaler (130732) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683413)

Yeah, the system's been kinda stingy lately with the mod points.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

prichardson (603676) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682133)

Everyone doing something is not a moral justification. Slavery seems like the most pertinent example. I don't wish to imply that reselling the PS3 is like that though.

Although the PS3 is a luxury item, gouging people on it is still greedy.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

Razed By TV (730353) | more than 7 years ago | (#16684993)

You know, I used to think that way, that gouging people on something like this is greedy and wrong. But it really seems like the market supports it. You have the console/toy maker on one side, not producing enough product. You have the media/hype/advertising raising demand for a product that there isn't enough of. And then you have the consumer who is willing to play ball and shell out 6 or 8 or however many hundreds of dollars. Noone forces the consumer to buy. S/he could wait a few months or half a year and buy it then. Consumer wants it now, including bragging rights? Thats a privilege consumer will have to pay for. Consumer's child wants it this Christmas? Maybe consumer's child should be getting what was HOT last Christmas. It's simply supply and demand. Don't like not being able to buy your console on the release date? Take that up with Sony for not making enough damn consoles. I could see the gouging being wrong if this was a necessity, but cmon, lives don't depend on this. You don't need this to survive. Not even close.

(Note: I'm not disagreeing about "Everyone doing something doesn't make it right." You're right on there)

Re:Scamming it up (1)

Burpmaster (598437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686353)

It's supply and demand? But what would happen if supply and demand were equal? You'd still be able to pull that scam, raising the price of the product and pocketing the difference. When people buy something just to resell it for profit, that creates an artificial scarcity. It would take excessive supply (read: waste) to stop that from working.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

ledow (319597) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685783)

No, everybody doing something is not a good justification. However, if that "something" is totally within the rights of the law and not harmful and not "forced" on anyone, there's no need to get uppity.

People stupid enough to pay more to have a console now? That's THEIR problem. Why NOT sell it to them? Do you think Sony would feel guilty (or even be "in the wrong", or even be "shunned" by the collectors) for charging $1000 for a console on release day and $950 the next etc.? Hell no. The only problem is that that would alienate "normal" customers, so they don't do it.

I have a rare, one-of-a-kind, postage stamp. Some sap wants to pay me $10,000,000 for it because it's in short supply. Where's the difference? Am I "taking advantage" of him in selling him it? Of course not.

Re:Scamming it up (1)

SuperMonkeyCube (982998) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685971)

The inherent difference between the price of a postage stamp and the price of a game console is that in the normal consumption of goods and services, a postage stamp would normally be used for postage and possibly never seen again.

If someone saves a postage stamp from the trash, or decides not to use it in the first place, it moves on to life as a collectible and is worth whatever the market will bear. Except in some rare cases (mostly printing errors), you would have to hold onto the thing for years to see it appreciate much.

If some crazed yahoo bought up all the first class stamps (regular, current printing, etc.) in some small town and tried to resell them at $1 each in an attempt to more than double his money, I'm sure the local constabulary would suggest to him that he was gouging, and most of the public could/would wait until more stamps showed up at the post office in a few days.

Correspondingly, a current game console should be sold at the current price, and leave the secondary market to genuinely rare (as opposed to artificially rare) items with limited appeal - a Vectrex, perhaps?
That's what _my_ ethics tell me is the right thing is.

Now for the quick reality check - even if everyone that got into line to buy a PS3 was going to play it and none went onto eBay, there would still be some dude somewhere with more money than sense that would wait outside a store on launch day with a big wad of hundred dollar bills. He's not going to feel like camping out the night before, and he'll try to buy one from one of the people walking out with one so his spoiled rotten kid can have one. That way the kid doesn't go into some emotional tailspin involving drugs, alcohol, and Paris Hilton. (My apologies to Criss Angel.) I'm sure, at some point, someone would be offered enough money to take him up on it. So, knowing this will likely happen, the eBay thing seems justifiable to many. Personally, if I went through the hassle of camping out for one, I'd like to actually play it. As it stands now, I'm in to position to camp out and I tend to prefer to wait for the second shipment of anything with a power supply or an internal combustion enginge anymore.

I will wait until the smoke clears to even think about buying one. Even/especially if it's coming from the power supply.

PS5! Now with the new hybrid synergy drive! It uses less than three gallons of biodiesel per day!

Sue (2, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681171)

there are certain even more seedy individuals out there who unfortunately will do anything they can to scam you out of your money completely.

Why doesn't Sony just sue them out of business. They're good at that.

Re:Sue (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 7 years ago | (#16686003)

there are certain even more seedy individuals out there who unfortunately will do anything they can to scam you out of your money completely.

Why doesn't Sony just sue them out of business. They're good at that.


Because it's rather hard to sue yourself out of business?

In order to Avoid Scams (1)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681239)

Just remember that I'm the only one taking pre-orders for the PS3. Really. And due to demand you're going to need to send me at $1000 to get one. No, $2000! Yes $5000 is all it takes. Order now, and I'll even provide an extra bonnus 7th axis on your controller!

Re:In order to Avoid Scams (1)

Makk (1021441) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681507)

Ooo 7 IS better then 6 afterall.. Much as 3 IS better then 2.. Yet 'Wii' is better then $600 ;)

Are they talking about themselves? (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16681791)

"Beyond that, however, there are certain even more seedy individuals out there who unfortunately will do anything they can to scam you out of your money completely. They know that some consumers get desperate when it comes to purchasing a newly launched console and they'll do anything they can to exploit that."

Also on the desk of the big wig who typed that up, a report on how lowering projection creates more pandamonium, citing the PS2 launch. It sounds like the scams they are citing are their current business strategy to create more hype for their console and blu-ray.

Sony, the only reason you think people are trying to scam everyone, is you're already trying to scam the public, shape up. There's a lot of bad apples, but they wouldn't get anywhere if the actual number of consoles you were selling where even close to correct.

Do what Sony-Bony wants for once (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682157)

Stay away from the PS3 scams. Especially the biggest scammer of all, Sony. A Wii will be so much better.

in other words (1)

Blob Pet (86206) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682433)

Sony is advising us against buying their console.

Re:in other words (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682785)

I wouldn't be surprised if sony is in on the ebay scam themselves, it's not beyond a company to double dipp. And ebay and Sony are both powerful enough and corrupt enough to come to such a lucrative agreement.

eBay is a scam? Oh, really, Sony? (1)

eskwayrd (575069) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683621)

For Sony to claim that sales of their products on eBay for higher than retail prices would constitute a scam, Sony would have to have an immature view of retailing.

Selling goods on eBay is not a scam, it's an auction. Buyers bid what they are willing to pay. If a product is readily available, products on eBay are unlikely to sell for much more than retail. If a product is scarce, then the eBay prices will reflect the demand for the product. Supply/demand; basic economics.

If PS3's show up on eBay for more than Sony wants them priced in retail then the blame rests solely with Sony: make enough of your product to meet the demand, or don't hype your product more than you can supply. Or, Sony simply made a blunder in the pricing of the PS3.

If anyone on eBay claims to be selling a PS3, but that's not what the buyer receives, that's a scam. Casting the 'scam' threat is valid for a small percentage of eBay transactions; for the majority it would be casting aspersions on the sellers. Sony seems to be wanting to blame Internet entreprenerial-minded folks for taking advantage of Sony's own lapse. Wishing the world would change to suit you is a common theme in teenage angst; Sony, grow up and deal with it.

Also, it's funny that Sony is warning people about "any suspicious/unauthorized PlayStation 3 offers". Since when does anyone who buys a Sony product at a retail outlet have to get Sony's permission to sell it to someone else?

Re:eBay is a scam? Oh, really, Sony? (1)

Panzergheist (609926) | more than 7 years ago | (#16685507)

Technically, reselling an item for higher than its established price is called scalping.

Moderately shameless plug. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16685071)

Had this problem with the HD TiVO, XBOX360, etc. Didn't want to pay eBay pricing and getting one online from a retail shop was nearly impossible. Ended up writing some software to scrape a bunch of websites and page me on my phone when a vendor had one available. It worked, I knew within seconds as soon as a vendor refreshed their inventory, and got a unit on the first shot.

When the XBOX 360 came out, another guy actually sold accounts on his version of this system, which wasn't nearly as cool as mine was.

So, I've put mine up for public consumption this time. http://www.playstationfinder.com/ [playstationfinder.com] - Love it or hate it, there it is.
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