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U.S. Classrooms Torn Between Science and Religion

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the when-the-man-has-an-agenda- dept.

1115

Dystopian Rebel writes "A New Jersey public-school history teacher was recorded telling his students that they 'belong in Hell' if they do not accept Jesus. The teacher, who is also a Baptist Pastor, lied later when he was asked by the school principle what he said to the students. Unfortunately for this dodge, a student recorded the teacher's 'lesson'." From the article: "The student and his parents have requested that the teacher's anti-scientific remarks be corrected in open class, and that the school develop quality control procedures to ensure that future classes are not proselytized and misinformed. They have also referred the matter for disciplinary action. No apology has been forthcoming from the teacher or from the school."

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Fortunately (4, Funny)

MutantHamster (816782) | about 8 years ago | (#16966536)

They live in New Jersey so when they wind up in Hell it won't be much different.

Which Hell? (4, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | about 8 years ago | (#16966574)

Well, if they end up in Hell, Grand Cayman [wikipedia.org] , that would certainly be a step up from Jersey. Hell, Michigan [wikipedia.org] , probably not so much.

Re:Which Hell? (2, Funny)

Cheapy (809643) | about 8 years ago | (#16966614)

What about Hell, Norway?

Re:Which Hell? (5, Funny)

Nicholas Evans (731773) | about 8 years ago | (#16966920)

It's a cold day in Hell, lemme tell ya...

Hehe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966538)

they should just tell him to 'go to hell'

This isn't a clash between science and religion. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966542)

It's a clash between science and stupidity. You'll never hear someone like Dawkins talk about the millions of Christians who don't oppose science, because he wants to limit the debate to right-wing fundie atheists vs. right-wing fundie Christians.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (0, Redundant)

rdwald (831442) | about 8 years ago | (#16966556)

Mod parent up.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (4, Funny)

turgid (580780) | about 8 years ago | (#16966646)

Mod parent up.

Don't. It's propaganda pandering to the oppressors.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (1)

Salmar (991564) | about 8 years ago | (#16966714)

They have evil syentifik brain-sucker machines that turn you into babbling Godless drones!

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (2, Funny)

turgid (580780) | about 8 years ago | (#16966724)

They call it teevee.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | about 8 years ago | (#16966784)

How many preachers do you see on TV talking about Christianity, again? Now how many atheists do you see on TV talking about atheism, again? I see a few pissed off Jaffa, if even that, on the atheist side.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (2, Insightful)

Salmar (991564) | about 8 years ago | (#16966860)

Oh, I agree. TV preachers are there to fuel the Sunday couch potato lifestyle of the typical god-fearing American. Still, what atheist needs to preach? and to whom? Also, did you not detect the slightest hint of sarcasm in turgid's tone?

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966832)

Mod Parent Up.

No, not the grandparent; mod the posting by rdwald, #16966556.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (4, Interesting)

Decaff (42676) | about 8 years ago | (#16966630)

It's a clash between science and stupidity. You'll never hear someone like Dawkins talk about the millions of Christians who don't oppose science, because he wants to limit the debate to right-wing fundie atheists vs. right-wing fundie Christians.

Quite the contrary. Dawkins talks a lot about the 'moderate' Christians, as he considers that a large number of those have a 'soft' belief that is succeptible to rational argument. He describes the antics of the fundamentalists in an attempt to get through to the millions. And good luck to him.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (0, Flamebait)

seebs (15766) | about 8 years ago | (#16966666)

Everything I've read by Dawkins suggests that he has no concept what non-fundamentalist Christians are; he's talking only about apathetic fundamentalists.

He and the fundamentalists need each other, so he treats fundamentalists as the essential definition of Christianity (rather than as a modernist group under two hundred years old, and a definite minority among Christians in general), and they treat people like him as the essential definition of atheism. Both get the bogeyman they need to have people buy their "cure".

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (5, Informative)

Decaff (42676) | about 8 years ago | (#16966742)

Everything I've read by Dawkins suggests that he has no concept what non-fundamentalist Christians are; he's talking only about apathetic fundamentalists.

He and the fundamentalists need each other, so he treats fundamentalists as the essential definition of Christianity (rather than as a modernist group under two hundred years old, and a definite minority among Christians in general), and they treat people like him as the essential definition of atheism. Both get the bogeyman they need to have people buy their "cure".


There is a huge difference between reading about him, and reading what he actually wrote.

This is so wrong. Dawkins is British, and knows well the Church of England, a far from fundamentalist branch of Christianity. He has spoken at length about what he feels about Christianity and religion in general, even moderate versions. If you think Dawkins is only targetting minorities in religious, you really haven't read him in any detail.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 8 years ago | (#16966900)

The Church of England is so far away from the fundies it's not funny. Although they didn't want poofters (that's faggots in the US) to be priests so they're still reactionary in some ways.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966764)

So essentially, he still considers moderates to be illegitimate. He is just as much a fundamentalist as his enemies - in his view, you MUST be an atheist or you're "irrational". Just like how the Christian fundies think everyone MUST be a Christian.

Don't be fooled by the rhetoric that atheism is inherently more rational. Neither the belief that God exists nor the belief that God doesn't exist have any scientifically admissible evidence behind them. A real skeptic would therefore believe neither. Dawkins, however, has a ton of faith in the latter.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (0)

banditski (163064) | about 8 years ago | (#16966924)

...awww, it's not even worth answering an AC on this... You might somehow get the idea that you have a valid point.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (4, Interesting)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | about 8 years ago | (#16966744)

Actually, Dawkins talks about the millions of Christians who don't oppose science all the time.

You obviously don't read many of his books (such as the latest one, The God Delusion [amazon.com] ), nor listen to many of his speeches (most of which can be found on YouTube or at RichardDawkins.net [richarddawkins.net] ), because Dawkins has made that seemingly benign group of people the target of many of his criticisms.

In The God Delusion, Dawkins examines how he thinks these people are able to compartmentalize their lives in such a way that makes belief in God possible while also having a natural and healthy skepticism about other, non-religious claims. For instance, most people scoff at the idea that idea that there should be evidence of God's existance before they believe in him, yet would demand just such evidence if I were to claim I had a dragon in my garage [godlessgeeks.com] .

While Dawkins certainly loves picking the low hanging fruit (the right-wing religious wackos), he is more than happy to address what he views as the hypocritical moderates. In fact, he has said numerous times that he almost has more respect for people who are steadfast in their religious beliefs than those who are willing to blend modern life with religious dogma.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966850)

My reading and study of the Bible shows this earth to be millions of years old, which does align with science.

It all depends on how you interpret what you read. I use a King James version of the Bible for studies in the English language, but go back to the original Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek and refer to the Massorah and Septuagint in my studies.

The earth is millions of years old and a lot of Christians know that this is what the Bible teaches, but most Christians think the earth is something like 6000 years old. This particular earth AGE is only a few thousand years old. Satan was a good guy (read it in the Bible) in the last age before he got prideful and decided that he wanted to be worshipped. Now we're in the second age. You are in a filtering process now - will you migrate over to the side of light or stay in the side of darkness? The next age will see Satan extinguished as well as all people that chose to follow him. Satan is coming pretending to be Jesus and will hoodwink the entire world population after which the TRUE Christ will return to be with those that stayed as spiritual virgins when the anti-Christ was here pretending to be Jesus. The word ANTI in the Greek language means false or spurious. Satan wants you to worship him and if he has to pretend to be nice to get you to do that, well, that's what will happen. There is a group of people that will refuse to worship the anti-Christ and these people will be persecuted by all of the inhabitants of the planet that think that Satan is the real Jesus. These are the firstfruits - the TRUE Church. These will be put on trial while Satan is here pretending to be Jesus and the Holy Spirit will speak through these people and then what is said by the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of many and they will see that they are worshipping Satan.

Hey, it's all in there. Go look for yourself.

If the Bible did not align with reality, why would anyone bother to study it?

People should look for themselves, and the key is just that; LOOKING. People that have not studied to see if the Bible is true or not on their own and rely on other people's opinions or simply blow it off will be getting just what they deserve.

Open your eyes and take a look around. Yeah, this is all an accident. Get REAL.

Re:This isn't a clash between science and religion (5, Insightful)

numbski (515011) | about 8 years ago | (#16966866)

Thank you. This is a story of something that isn't so bright. :\ Christians are just like everyone else - the majority of them are stupid (just as with atheists, muslims, catholics, etc).

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians...who acknowledge Jesus with their, then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That, is what an unbelieving world, simply finds, unbelievable."

Bad #1 - Preaching hellfire and brimstone in a school classroom about science. The two ARE NOT mutually exclusive. Sure, saying you'll go to hell if you don't accept Jesus may very well be a fact, it has been well established that you are supposed to seperate church from state in a public classroom. To try to get away with it was stupid.

Bad #2 - Lying about it. He acknowledged Jesus with his lips, THEN turned around and denied him by his lifestyle. What are those very students going to think now?

If you feel justified in defying established rules and try to preach the gospel openly in a public school classroom, you have to walk the walk, and accept the consequences. You can't do this halfway. Either way he was stupid to try it, but lying about it makes it even worse. :(

Gives Christianity a bad name on every front.

It's not a question of science... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966554)

It's a clear violation of the separation of church & state doctrine.

You're not allowed to prosceletize in a public school, period.

The school & teacher could be looking at a sizeable lawsuit.

Oddly enough, the capthca word for this post is "idiots".

Record a teacher: goto jail (1)

lpq (583377) | about 8 years ago | (#16966564)

In some states, like California, recording someone without them being aware of it (even if you are personally there) is illegal. Too many politicians got caught with their pants down and passed a self protective law. :-(
lpq

Re:Record a teacher: goto jail (1)

drpimp (900837) | about 8 years ago | (#16966766)

I believe the law you are referring (Electronic Eavesdropping Law [ca.gov] ) to only applies to private communications. I can't see the article in question (slashdotted), but if this was a private school there may be some truth to what you say, but in public schools are public places and there is no law against recording in public places.

Re:Record a teacher: goto jail (1)

mattt79 (1005999) | about 8 years ago | (#16966896)

You may be right... But how much do you want to bet that the kid could still be punished under school rules about recording devices in the classroom.

Just because the action is legal, does not mean the school has to allow it. If there's no rule against recording in the classroom yet, I foresee a scramble on the part of school administrations across the country to put one in place to cover their collective a$$.

Flamebait (0, Flamebait)

Locarius (798304) | about 8 years ago | (#16966568)

I wish I could mod stories as -1 Flamebait and then filter them out. The problem is, this thread will see 800 replies which generates a TON of revenue.

Re:Flamebait (1)

neoform (551705) | about 8 years ago | (#16966648)

You hate the story, yet you chose to click on it and post a comment, then you say it's unfortunate that the story will get 800 replies? Guess what, it's now 799 away from it's goal because of you.

What if... (0, Flamebait)

grub (11606) | about 8 years ago | (#16966570)


What if I stood up in class and said "I accept Jesus as a fucking cunt!"
Does that kind of acceptance get me eternal happiness?

Re:What if... (1)

Surt (22457) | about 8 years ago | (#16966812)

Ouch, that's pretty self deprecating.

This religion is just out of favor (2, Insightful)

edbarbar (234498) | about 8 years ago | (#16966572)


I don't see much difference between this religion and the apocolyptic eco-crazy memes they pump into kids at school these days. Instead of "Your soul will go to hell if you don't study" it has become "The earth will be destroyed if you don't recycle."

Re:This religion is just out of favor (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966626)

Except that your so-called "eco-crazy memes" are based on scientific fact. Nobody says "The earth will be destroyed if you don't recycle." The Earth won't be destroyed no matter what we do; it might, however, become unlivable if sheep like yourself keep believing what those in power tell you.

Re:This religion is just out of favor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966806)

Science is a belief system like any other religion. Atheists who are strongly anti-religion are not really different from racists (and vice versa, if religion people are strongly anti-atheism).

Bottom line is neither party, religion or scientific, should be allowed to trample on the rights and belief system of the other so long as the other is not causing them direct harm.

Re:This religion is just out of favor (0, Flamebait)

edbarbar (234498) | about 8 years ago | (#16966930)

Really? You mean if I throw away my plastic garbage instead of recycle it the world will become unlivable? Please. . .

STFU, Rush (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966664)

Yeah, or those other crazy religious fantasies, "capitalism is great!" and "democracy is a good way to run a country!"

Re:This religion is just out of favor (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 8 years ago | (#16966728)

I don't see much difference between this religion and the apocolyptic eco-crazy memes they pump into kids at school these days. Instead of "Your soul will go to hell if you don't study" it has become "The earth will be destroyed if you don't recycle."

Hmmmm. I'm trying to find a way to *combine* these two so that I can make lots of money...

Re:This religion is just out of favor (1)

bcdm (1031268) | about 8 years ago | (#16966778)

Well, here's the one difference I see: This crazy new "religion" refers to things that ACTUALLY @^&#ING EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD. I know, I know, it's "wacky", it's "out there", but it might just fly!

Be consistent (2, Insightful)

Zuke8675309 (470025) | about 8 years ago | (#16966580)

There's no excuse for that teacher's actions. However, school systems need to be consistent. There are plenty of examples of teachers teaching or communicating inappropriately on issues such as homosexuality, abortion, drugs, and politics.

Re:Be consistent (1)

WormholeFiend (674934) | about 8 years ago | (#16966790)

There's no excuse for that teacher's actions. However, school systems need to be consistent. There are plenty of examples of teachers teaching or communicating inappropriately on issues such as homosexuality, abortion, drugs, and politics

I dunno... from what I remember of the drivel I heard back in school, not much of it, if any at all, affected me.

I'd like to see it as a type of acid bath, where students capable of rational thought quickly distinguish themselves from sheeple.

We use to fire our teachers (1, Offtopic)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | about 8 years ago | (#16966584)

When I was in the Finnish equivalent of high school we had a teacher who simply didn't have what it took to teach us efficiently. The class was never properly under control, people were messing around and no one was learning anything. With other teachers things worked fine.

Eventually we all signed a petition that this particular teacher simply didn't have what it took... and got a new one.

Obligatory Southpark Ref. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966590)

"You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you die!" - Mr. Garrison

I guess... (2)

Leuf (918654) | about 8 years ago | (#16966594)

the "school principle" wasn't his pal.

Re:I guess... (1)

IgLou (732042) | about 8 years ago | (#16966936)

Ah yes the principles of slashdot editing at work again.

Dark Ages (3, Interesting)

neoform (551705) | about 8 years ago | (#16966606)

Funny how until about a decade ago, Science was welcomed and seen as the answer, then suddenly the Discovery Institute came up with Intelligent Design and suddenly the thought that science shouldn't be taught anymore comes up.

Does anyone remember what the dark ages were? Looks like we're about to have a relapse.

Re:Dark Ages (4, Insightful)

CrackedButter (646746) | about 8 years ago | (#16966658)

Nobody in America remembers what the Dark Ages were, they never had one.

Re:Dark Ages (5, Insightful)

rdwald (831442) | about 8 years ago | (#16966758)

Nobody in America remembers what the Dark Ages were, they never had one.

Yet.

Re:Dark Ages (1)

Hijacked Public (999535) | about 8 years ago | (#16966730)

If you think we will lapse into another Dark Ages because some fundie got a teaching job you need to calm down a little.

This is just a case of a zealous anti-Christian crossing paths with a zealous Christian and one of them happened to have a recording device. The school and the teacher are likely staying quiet on the advice of their attorneys and when it all plays out the two parties will probably settle out of court.

Re:Dark Ages (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966842)

This is just a case of a zealous anti-Christian crossing paths with a zealous Christian and one of them happened to have a recording device.
 
I'll agree with the zealous Christian bit, but recording someone undermining a schools education system and possibly greatly harming some childrens future isn't anti-christian. What this person did is horrible and I for one wouldn't let someone let this near my children let alone force them to listen to everything he has to say. A firing is the least of what should happen here. It's certainly no dark ages though, but what would you think about a teacher who was Muslim who began teaching the Koran in science class?

Re:Dark Ages (5, Insightful)

Jabbrwokk (1015725) | about 8 years ago | (#16966830)

The Dark Ages weren't all that dark.

They were filled with people with hopes and dreams, making discoveries and learning new things just like people do today. Just because they didn't have computers to post on Slashdot or the wealth of scientific knowledge we have today doesn't mean they were "dark."

Science was progressing, albiet more slowly, and for different reasons. Many "natural philosophers" made scientific discoveries while they were looking to prove the bible, or learn more about the nature of God and creation.

The Scientific Revolution roughly 300 years ago was when people started doing research for the sake of expanding knowledge, not for anything else. Yes, scientific knowledge increased and technology became more advanced, but to assume that everything before that point was just darkness and ignorance is arrogant, uninformed and shortsighted.

I have a strong interest in science, which people should remember is not working closer and closer to a definite answer but to a broadening understanding. Scientific study often enough doesn't definitively answer questions, it just raises more questions. For example, quantum physics. 100 years ago scientists thought they could close the physics books. Then Quantum physics came along. Now every new discovery raises more questions. I think that's pretty exciting.

As for creation "science," which is deservedly flame bait, I wish people would distinguish between people who are fanatical about the politics of "Christendom" building ridiculous museums when the millions of dollars should have gone to house the homeless and feed the hungry, and those who are followers of Christ. I consider myself the latter -- simply, a Christian. I believe God created the universe. How he did it is a matter for science to explore.

And I'm more interested in the why.

Doesn't the Bible... (1)

nathan s (719490) | about 8 years ago | (#16966624)

...say something about liars having an appointment with a certain overly warm lake?

Re:Doesn't the Bible... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966704)

"The bible says a lot of things. ... Technically, we're not allowed to go to the bathroom"

One more time! (1)

Bromskloss (750445) | about 8 years ago | (#16966632)

The student and his parents have requested that the teacher's anti-scientific remarks be corrected in open class
Hehe, will the same teacher do that? Kind of like lying again! :-) I mean, he'll then tell the kids something that is totally against his own beliefs. Funny. Anyway, isn't it, if anything, more non-scientific than anti-scientific, huh? If not, what is really science's take on the subject? That they won't go to hell?

Re:One more time! (1)

Straif (172656) | about 8 years ago | (#16966718)

Well put, and me without my mod points.

I guess I'm not alone in trying to see how science enters in on the topic of a History teacher's ill-conceived rant in class.

Re:One more time! (1)

Phil246 (803464) | about 8 years ago | (#16966738)

science's take is "there is insufficient evidence to prove or disprove the existance of god, and consequently hell"

Re:One more time! (1)

tbannist (230135) | about 8 years ago | (#16966822)

... and therefore there are no reasonable grounds to threaten people with punishment in what is very likely to be an imaginary place.

Re:One more time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966942)

very likely to be an imaginary place.
There is no evidence for it being likely or unlikely so it shouldn't even be mentioned.

Re:One more time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966934)

science's take is "there is insufficient evidence to prove or disprove the existance of god, and consequently hell"

Don't be silly. The fact that there isn't any convincing evidence of a hell, or any other form of afterlife, isn't in any way consequent upon there being no convincing evidence of any gods.

Some things mentioned in the Bible are real (e.g. the Nile exists), others aren't (e.g. Hell doesn't), the evidence for each has to be considered separtely. There could be a god without a hell, or vice versa.

Anti-scientific? (4, Insightful)

Eco-Mono (978899) | about 8 years ago | (#16966638)

The comments made by this teacher were totally inappropriate and took advantage of his authority position. So why not call them that instead of using phrases like "anti-scientific" that imply a war between religion and science?

Re:Anti-scientific? (1)

WingedEarth (958581) | about 8 years ago | (#16966938)

That's exactly right. The only people who think that science and religion are mutually exclusive are people without imagination, and such people should be crucified, burned at the stake, and ridiculed in scientific journals.

Southpark (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966644)

This reminds me of one of the latest South Park episodes.

and wtf is "anti-scientific" ?! Claiming you go to hell if you dont believe in Jesus is as "anti-scientific" as claiming evolution is 100% correct!

Its all conjecture in my oppinion.

I thought this was standard behavior? (2, Insightful)

macavity1977 (925593) | about 8 years ago | (#16966652)

And this kind of thing happens roughtly a million times a day all over the world.
The big question is: Was anyone supprised by this sensational piece of news?

I'm a beliver of something non-scientific myself, but i never ever forget that it is something that i *believe* in.
It's not a law, or even a propable theory or model, just because i happen to belive in it. I've always found the "this-proves-religion-X" style argument totally foolish and a complete waste of time.

The sad thing is that i often find myself quite alone with this oppinion when among other belivers of this-or-that.

Looney Tunes (5, Interesting)

Ronald Dumsfeld (723277) | about 8 years ago | (#16966668)

Religious people of pretty much any flavour seem to be normal people until you hit that one spot where the gears seem to just mash into each other and they go haywire.

This guy shouldn't be teaching, particularly not history. Any loon who tries to tell a bunch of kids that (a) Noah's ark was real and (b) There were dinosaurs on it should have their license to teach revoked.

Marx was right, it is an opiate, because there certainly seem to be a fair share of the users acting like they're on something.

Re:Looney Tunes (5, Funny)

kraut (2788) | about 8 years ago | (#16966856)

> Any loon who tries to tell a bunch of kids that (a) Noah's ark was real and (b) There were dinosaurs on it should have their license to teach revoked.

Doh.. use some common sense. Of course the dinosaurs didn't get on the ark: That's how they becamse extinct! ;)

Cognitive Dissonance (2, Interesting)

onkelonkel (560274) | about 8 years ago | (#16966928)

Where the "gears grind" (well put!) is called cognitive dissonance. The tension that occurs when 2 strongly held cognitions (beliefs, feelings, concepts etc) conflict. Common in anybody with strongly held beliefs such as some religious fundies, left/right wing political nutjobs, and audiophiles. People who not only refuse to accept evidence that their beliefs are wrong, but actually may not be able to accept it without a sort of major ego collapse. Kind of scary when you encounter it, isn't it?

Scientists (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966672)

You don't see scientist sneaking into Religious schools to teach evolution.

Re:Scientists (1)

turgid (580780) | about 8 years ago | (#16966748)

You don't see scientist sneaking into Religious schools to teach evolution.

I believe there's a quote regarding casting pearls before swine.

/me ducks.

Re:Scientists (2, Interesting)

Etcetera (14711) | about 8 years ago | (#16966904)

You don't see scientist sneaking into Religious schools to teach evolution.

No, but you do see teachers ridiculing and berating students to *do* have religious beliefs. Wanna try it out? Try stating in open class that you don't believe the theory of evolution is valid and watch the profs at your average University lay into you for being an idiot (or gullible, confused, brainwashed, etc...).

Betcha if this guy had done that there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage about it -- at least not on Slashdot.

Regardless, this guy deserved to go anyway... if he lies during the course of an investigation then he has no place teaching anywhere.

Not really Christians (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | about 8 years ago | (#16966674)

Such people are as much Christians as are scientists who believe the world is flat. Please do not judge us Christians by the actions of these radicals.

Re:Not really Christians (1)

be-fan (61476) | about 8 years ago | (#16966792)

If you look at the polls, these aren't the radicals. On many issues, the majority of the Christian population is buying into these fundamentalist, anti-scientific and anti-liberal stances.

Re:Not really Christians (1)

Jboost (960475) | about 8 years ago | (#16966838)

Way to score some quick karma.

I hear this a lot but your argument doesn't hold water.
What christians do is what christianity is, not some theoretical version that exists only in your head.
You don't get to embrace the christians you like and disavow the ones you don't;
if you want credit for the successes, you must take responsibility for the failures.

Every type of christian says his or her way of believing is the correct one.

Re:Not really Christians (1)

tbannist (230135) | about 8 years ago | (#16966864)

The are Christians and you are your fellows embrace them. If you don't want to be associated with them stand up and denounce them, kick them out of your faith, and stop letting them be your spokespeople.

The only time I see Christians saying "Oh he's not one of us" is when another Christian is in trouble for doing something stupid or downright evil. That's not good enough, if you want to be respected as not being stupid and/or evil, you've got to police your own and punish them for their transgressions.

Mod parent down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966874)

+4 Insightful? come on!
about the scientists, read some about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method [wikipedia.org]

Re:Not really Christians (1)

toetagger1 (795806) | about 8 years ago | (#16966902)

And instead we should look at your perfect role models, and ignore everything else?
I agree that we shouldn't assume that every religious person is like the one described in the story.
I also belief that religious organizations should work more towards a world where science and religion can co-exist.

Then, we would have fewer people reading stories like this, and thinking that all religion must be like this. Then we'll also be able to have a school system that can accept (not necessarily teach) both religion and science.

And most of all, then we'll finally have children that can make their own choices!

Re:Not really Christians (1)

IdleTime (561841) | about 8 years ago | (#16966908)

If it wasn't because of you Christians, we would have had TV and Computers 300 years ago but Christianity burned everyone who had the gall to disagree with you and your fantasy book.

Re:Not really Christians (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966922)

Who put you in charge of defining who is a "Christian"? I think the radicals would also say that you are not a "true" Christian. The first poll [cbsnews.com] I found in a quick search shows that a majority reject evolution.

Yeah, it's pretty silly, but you can't deny the facts. Are you saying that most people who call themselves Christians are really not? And if so, what criteria are you using for that evaluation?

Science? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966676)

Why is this in Science? I'd rather not read this political hysteria, so my login doesn't include politics. This is clearly politics.

Why? (5, Insightful)

RootsLINUX (854452) | about 8 years ago | (#16966686)

Why are there these people that feel like every other living soul in the world HAS to accept what they believe, otherwise they should be killed/crucified/outcasted/suffer for eternity in the afterlife? Aren't these the people that killed thousands during the Crusades? Aren't these the people that are killing thousands now in the name of Allah? Are all the religions and dieties that man-kind have believed in one way or another so damn righteous as to demand that their followers mame all others in their name?

I just don't understand why people can't accept that others can believe different things than they do. If the whole world was just more accepting of others and respected others' beliefs even if they disagreed, the world would be a much, much better place. Not to mention that millions of innocent people wouldn't have had to die in ages past.

Express Train (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 8 years ago | (#16966688)

history teacher was recorded telling his students that they 'belong in Hell' if they do not accept Jesus.

Sounds like they are already there.
     

apology? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 years ago | (#16966698)

His ass should have been fired and barred from teaching in any school in the country.

spelling nazi (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966706)

Remember that Simpsons quote? Ned Flanders wants to put the pal back in principal.

So, the guy's a liar and spreading propaganda (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | about 8 years ago | (#16966710)

With video evidence.

So fire him. Problem solved.
   

Re:So, the guy's a liar and spreading propaganda (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966772)

With video evidence.
 
So fire him. Problem solved.
 
Umm, 90% of what you learn in school IS propaganda.

What was this guy thinking? (2, Insightful)

Josh Lindenmuth (1029922) | about 8 years ago | (#16966750)

Regardless of your opinion on God (and evolution vs. intelligent design), it's readily apparent that the teacher was stepping outside his defined role as a science teacher. If the school district and state dictates that a science teacher should teach evolution, that's what they need to teach. If they dictate they should teach intelligent design, that's what they should teach. And if the standards are to teach that humans come from storks and that pigs fly, the instructors should teach this or go to a different state/private school. Public schools are kind of like McDonalds ... you may not receive the top of line, but it should always be consistent.

If this pastor/teacher thought that he was going to convert a bunch of high schoolers by damning them all to hell, he must not have a very successful church, and certainly should be fired immediately. If he really wanted to use the classroom as a pulpit, he should have chose philosophy as a subject, or just taught at a parochial school. The most he could have done was to just express his religion very simply (e.g. a cross around his neck, picture on his desk, whatever), and use kids' natural curiousity as a chance to invite them to his church to learn more outside of school. This is dangerously close to some line in the sand, but better to toe the line than to jump clear over it like he did.

Re:What was this guy thinking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966882)

He was a history teacher, dipshit. Read the fucking article before you spew out your ill-informed comments.

Ethical and Moral issues (1)

SoapDish (971052) | about 8 years ago | (#16966752)

Teaching in public school is one of the hardest jobs I can think of for a christian.

We as christians are often taught that Jesus is to be in control of our entire lives. So, what happens when you're in a position to teach people who don't have the same beliefs? What is the ethical/moral thing to do? Do you follow the pressure of religion, or the pressure of society at large?

It's not even as bad for politicians, because if they spout something like this, it's ok. Even though they make the rules, they're put there by the people the rules affect. The people that don't like it can vote for someone else later. A politician will just get ridiculed, when a teacher will get fired/suspended, and have a black mark on his proffessional career for the rest of his life.

Re:Ethical and Moral issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966912)

For everything there is a time...

Teaching during a classroom isn't the right time to be introducing students to Jesus, unless that's part of the course material.

Re:Ethical and Moral issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966926)

It's against the law to force one's religion down other's throats, in public schools - period.
Science is not a religion. Religion is not science.

If the teacher in question were trying to force Tom Cruise's nutbar cult down the throats of those students, how would you feel about that?
Now you know how us non Christians feel about this.

Ahahahah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966762)

This country is so fucked. :/ Anybody has any idea what we could do? This is a serious question...

This is a Slashdot article? (1)

chrism238 (657741) | about 8 years ago | (#16966770)

Hardly seems a science or technology related item.

Re:This is a Slashdot article? (1)

grumpyman (849537) | about 8 years ago | (#16966894)

Ditto. As usual and expected though. Slashdot by itself is a religion that wants to preach a certain set of value to others, shaped by the admin who 'filter' and post all the news.

But did he teach them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966782)

how to spell "principal"? Then he's not that bad in my book. /my book happens to be the dictionary

Guilty of copyright infringement for recording? (1, Insightful)

metoc (224422) | about 8 years ago | (#16966786)

Isn't this kid guilty of copyright infringement for recording the teacher/pastor's lecture/sermon? The teacher could therefore sue the kid, and have the evidence thrown out.

BTW. How can you go to hell if you don't believe in the Christian universe (and therefore Jesus). Is their an atheist's universe with a seperate hell? Maybe the various deities and non-dieties contracted out the management of their hells to some contractor (like Halliburton).

Science and Religion go hand in hand (1)

Matt Ownby (158633) | about 8 years ago | (#16966794)

Science neither proves nor disproves the existence of God, and therefore cannot prove or disprove what God is purported to have revealed to various inhabitants of the earth at various times. Therefore, to imply that talking about God contradicts science is illogical. There are definitely things about our lives that science cannot understand and never will understand and though people may disagree about what these things are, it does not mean that these things have no answers and do not exist.

Re:Science and Religion go hand in hand (1)

Luthair (847766) | about 8 years ago | (#16966876)

There are definitely things about our lives that science cannot understand and never will understand and though people may disagree about what these things are, it does not mean that these things have no answers and do not exist. This is a rather broad statement without any fact. Currently it is not known whether science will eventually be able to explain everything.

Most of Slashdot is probably going to hell... (1)

chia_monkey (593501) | about 8 years ago | (#16966796)

Most everyone on here is probably going to hell then since I suspect most of Slashdot's readers are more scientifically minded. Yup...I'm going to hell for thinking it's sad that this kind of thing happens and that today's youth is subject to this kind of "learning" in schools. Ah yes...separation of Church and State at its finest...*sigh*

Jesus never said that! (1)

Micklewhite (1031232) | about 8 years ago | (#16966820)

Jesus never said anything about people accepting him to avoid hell. There's actually a passage in the bible that says folks who chose the 'wrong' religion but still led a good life will still be accepted into the kingdom of heaven.

The religious nuts tend to avoid anything that might involve inclusiveness or helping their fellow people regardless of their differences. It doesn't jive with Jesus' actual message of chasing people with sticks.

What's the real issue (1)

Thanatos69 (993924) | about 8 years ago | (#16966828)

While I can understand that the big issue here is that he is saying everyone will go to hell if they don't have his beliefs. There is another underlying issue which will effect his ability to teach, the fact that when a student confronted him in front of an authority figure, the teacher chose to lie instead of fess up. The consequences of this are that he can no longer be trusted by the students or the school. Upon giving the cds to the principal, the teacher refused further comment until he could meet with the union. Once again, poor example, lie until you are caught and when you are caught, run to someone else for help.

Sad state of affairs indeed. Luckily for him, the union will stick up for him, he won't lose his job and I doubt he will get any punishment, for the rest of us though? We have to wonder what our kids are being taught in school. Our kid says something, we ask the teacher and all they have to say is that it was taken out of context... how many times have we been presented with this by our children not only in teaching but also in punishment.

Why would you need choose? (1)

asciimonster (305672) | about 8 years ago | (#16966840)

Why on earth would you need to choose?

I was on a (admittedly Dutch) Cathlic highschool. But they taught safe sex, Darwinism (Intelligent Design wasn't a big thing back then), Science, but also the beliefs of Catholism, Jemism, Islamism, Hindoism (sp?).

The job of a school is to educate, not to select. An educated child makes wise decisions, which in turn make them better adults.

ARRRGH! (1)

mtrupe (156137) | about 8 years ago | (#16966888)

This annoys me to no end. Both parties: It's not science OR religion. It's not one or the other.

We're not fighting each other here!

So ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16966918)

In islam it's standard procedure not just to tell them they're going to hell, but to dispatch them immediately :

e.g. http://jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/ira6.htm [jubileecampaign.co.uk]
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