Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive

Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."

This is well and good but..

[N3WBI3]

What will be the most important marker of Dells little Linux venture is product placement. If these linux systems end up on a back page people may not hunt for them.

Re:This is well and good but..

[tb()ne]

They are on a back page. If you go to Dell's web site and navigate to buy an E1505 laptop, Ubuntu is not an OS option anywhere along the way. I had to type Ubuntu in the search box to find the page where I could see/configure one.

Re:This is well and good but..

[Poppler]

I was about to post a rant about how it was obscured as well, but right now, Dell has a promotion for Ubuntu PCs on their front page. OK, so it's one of four images shown seemingly at random, but having a promotion shown to 25% of people who visit dell.com isn't bad.

Ubuntu == Red-Headed Step Child

[mpapet]

I tried to find it this morning too.

1. There was a page on Dell's site saying displaying photoshopped pc's with a brown ubuntu splash screen, but the link took you to freedos systems. (?)

2. Search the phrase Dell linux and one of the links will take you to PC's with Red Hat.

3. Going through Dell's front door www.dell.com gets you absolutely zero indication they have Linux, much less ubuntu as an option.

I found the link to buy a ubuntu/dell pc in an article. This suggests some combination of typical corporate inertia and maybe, just maybe a Microsoft distribution agreement that discourages alternatives.

Re:Ubuntu == Red-Headed Step Child

[buggi22]

Here's what I've found:

1. There's an "Ubuntu Has Arrived" image that cycles through with the other advertisements on Dell's front page. This takes you to a page where you have the choice to shop for Ubuntu PC's and FreeDOS PC's.

2. The Ubuntu/FreeDOS PC's are not available through the obvious route (ie, by navigating through "Notebooks for Home and Office" -> "Inspiron" -> "Inspiron E1505", for example). There's an entirely separate navigation tree for Ubuntu orders.

3. Fortunately the navigation tree for ordering non-Windows PC's has an easy-to-remember URL:

http://www.dell.com/open [dell.com]

Which is good for spreading the word the old-fashioned way.

Re:Huh?

[cyphercell]

http://www.dell.com/linux [dell.com]

FYI: Ubuntu Promo works better in IE

[DarkTempes]

The Ubuntu promo has nothing to do with operating system, browser, or user agent (well for the most part).

If you look at the page source you'll see they have a javascript array of urls, one of which always includes the Ubuntu promo link/image. These arrays are all sent to their 'montage' function which is supposed to cycle through the different promos (open the dell home page in IE and you'll see the desired function in action).

In Firefox 1.5.x for whatever reason (they have too many errors for me to even bother trying to track it down) the page will load the first random image which could possibly be the Ubuntu one. This is why you have to usually reload the page to get it. However, if you have NoScript enabled (or javascript disabled, take your pick) you will never see the Ubuntu promo as you will always get the default image.

So Dell did put an advertisement for Linux on their front page, and if they purposefully targeted anyone it was IE users, the people least likely to be informed about Linux.

Re:

[C_Kode]

I agree. If I go to Dell's site and select Home System->XPS->XPS410 I only get the option for Windows when it ask me to choose an operating system.

I guess I just didn't find the back page that actually offers Ubuntu.

Re:This is well and good but..

[Timesprout]

Right, and then every pleb will pick Ubuntu cos its cheaper. 10 mins after pleb gets their new machine and plugs it in they are on the phone to Dell support moaning that they can't install MS Office, their games or whatever software they have.

Re:This is well and good but..

[C_Kode]

This is kind of weak excuse. Obviously, Dell would make some notice of this upon purchasing Ubuntu. It's like when buying a car, the usually make it known if you are buying a car that uses diesel instead of gasoline.

Re:

[kernelpanicked]

Guess you were too busy to read this. From DELL's site on the Ubuntu page.

"Not sure Open Source is for You?

The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows® operating system. If you're here by mistake and you are looking for a Dell PC with Windows, please use the following link."

Re:

[Chandon Seldon]

Not every computer user is a gamer. In fact, gamers are in the minority.

It's true that computer gaming is one of the few tasks for which Windows is obviously more appropriate than Ubuntu, but that's not enough reason to say that Ubuntu is inappropriate for most people. Ubuntu even works pretty well for the occasional gamer - UT2004 online is a lot of fun.

Re:Next 6 mo prediction for dell call center

[Chandon Seldon]

1. Hey, my windows office that I copied from my buddy doesn't install!

You copied it from your buddy? Must be that DRM copy protection.

2. Hey, why doesn't the shockwave player play my video clips on myspace?

Have you ever seen shockwave work anywhere? Have you seen Homestarrunner.com?

3. How do I get that iTunes working? My iPod needs it.

It's already installed, but it's called "Rythmbox Music Player" in the menu for some reason.

4. Where's Photoshop? What, this GIMP thing?

GIMP is a more advanced version of Photoshop. Don't you hate it how new versions of software change things around?

Re:

[Ravnen]

Their thinking is probably that anyone who wants Linux will look for it, and anyone who doesn't know doesn't want it, but might not be able to understand the difference from a brief description. If users expecting Windows started buying PCs with Ubuntu because it's cheaper, it could lead to all sorts of negative customer service and publicity issues for Dell.

Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[vivaoporto]

After all the comments that Dell should sell Linux machines, and that they shouldn't charge more for them than the Linux one, it is time to put your money where your mouth is and start buying these beauties. I, for one, know that if they ever offer it here on good ol' Europe I'll be buying one as my replacement laptop. Not only buy them, but recommend them for people that are buying their first computers and never had contact with Windows. If they are going to give any serious use for the computer (that meaning, no mass marketed games), they will not miss anything on Windows. Peace.

Re:

[N3WBI3]

In a way it might have been better if it were placed at the same price point as windows. A better profit margin on the Linux PC's might inspire dell to give them a very visible face..

As someone who prefers Linux

[ThreeDayMonk]

If they are the same price, then what would the benefit of buying a box with Linux preinstalled be?

As someone who doesn't use Windows: knowing that the hardware works with Linux. Not sending any money to MS is also a plus.

Re:

[muszek]

and Frozen Bubble

Re:

[BlueParrot]

Provided they start selling in Norway before I find that my present system is insufficient to meet my needs I will with high probability get a notebook from a vendor with good Linux support. If the price is fair that may very well be Dell. So, well, IF they ship to Norway, and IF they have better Linux support than my alternatives here, and IF they are priced fairly I will buy one. However, lets get one thing clear. We owe them nothing. If their Linux machines are good and fairly priced they will sell on th

Re:

[drinkypoo]

After all the comments that Dell should sell Linux machines, and that they shouldn't charge more for them than the Linux one, it is time to put your money where your mouth is and start buying these beauties.

I'm not buying a laptop until quad-core units roll out.

It's not enough to put Linux on a laptop I don't want and expect me to buy it.

If you want to pay for me to buy a laptop I don't want, though, that would be okay.

Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[illumin8]

I'm not buying a laptop until quad-core units roll out.

Yeah because I would feel like my penis size was really inadequate if I only had a dual core...

Re:

[Jerry]

I checked out the XPS 410n and added my preferences.

The total bill was $948.

Then it struck me... How am I to connect this box to the Internet? NONE of the offerings included either a NIC or a modem, wireless or phone.

Re:

[HUADPE]

From shopping around a bit, this is because dell only lists options where you have options. There is probably only one Ethernet card available on the system you're configuring, so they don't show it as an option. Besides, the main reason to always know the model number of the card is irrelevant. The card will work with Linux, Dell has seen to that.

Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[Chandon Seldon]

Every one of the systems includes an integrated NIC. It should show up in the "additional items" section at the bottom.

Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[ajs318]

Why -- can't you spell "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop", or something?

Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[fyoder]

Why -- can't you spell "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop", or something?

Cha, cha, cha. I would have modded this funny. Perhaps this is why Dell has buried these Linux machines on their site. If you know enough use the command line under Linux, you're probably somewhat committed. You'll ask them for it (or just search), and now they will be able to easily provide. To the person who can spell "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop", Linux has been 'ready for prime time' for a long time now. But perhaps not for the general public who might just pick Ubuntu from a drop down configuration menu because it was the cheaper option, then freak when they got it because it isn't Windows.

Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough

[norminator]

If you know enough about Linux to be an anti-Gnome snob, I'm sure you know how to
A) Install KDE, or XFCE or IceWM or Enlightenment or whatever or DE/WM you want or
B) Install whichever entire distro you want.

Personally, I like Gnome, after switching to KDE and back a few times... but I know not everyone does, so to each his own. But Gnome is a great place for people who are new to Linux to start. And if you don't like it, this is Free software, on pretty standard PC hardware, which means you can replace it without losing any real value (with Windows if you want to).

Two of the major good things about this product is that a) a major PC company is making Linux available pre-installed for everyone, and b) all the hardware in those machines is guaranteed to work under Linux. Not always with open source drivers, but it will be able to be Linux-compatible. Therefore, anyone who doesn't like the default configuration can install whatever Linux flavor they want, or any other x86 OS, or they can change the default Desktop Environment.

Can we please have people stop complaining because Dell isn't offering a default setup in exactly the l33t configuration you would have set it up on your own?

Comparisons?

[kripkenstein]

Comparing identical models is interesting, and it's good to know the size of the 'Windows Tax' is around $50 (as many suspected), but this figure isn't an objective truth, for several reasons:

• Ubuntu can run well on cheaper hardware than Vista (mainly RAM and video, if you want Aero). So comparing the same hardware means one OS will run better than the other. (Note: on the other hand Ubuntu needs more expensive hardware in some areas, like Wifi, due to lack of good drivers for cheap Broadcom devices. But this is negligible, and also drivers are now coming out.)
• Comparing to Vista Home Basic may not be entirely fair, if most users in fact purchase Home Premium ($30 more via Dell, I believe). Indeed some have said that Home Basic is hopelessly crippled. But this is of course debatable.

Re:

[Ravnen]

Ubuntu can run well on cheaper hardware than Vista (mainly RAM and video, if you want Aero). So comparing the same hardware means one OS will run better than the other.

I don't think Vista Home Basic includes Aero, which is why it has lower hardware requirements, including half the RAM and lower video card requirements, than the more expensive versions of Vista.

Re:

[norminator]

My 3 year old 2.6 GHz Toshiba laptop (from work) with 32 MB NVidia handles Ubuntu with Beryl just fine. It's a pleasure to use. When I installed Vista (Ultimate) on the same machine, Aero was not even an option because the graphics card wasn't supported. Also, the Vista Media Center refused to play videos at all (which would play under WMP), citing missing files. It would suggest a reboot, but of course that never fixed it.

The whole Vista interface was sluggish, especially in Media Center. Now, Ubun

oh goody...

[brunascle]

windows users have the option of configuring their PC so it's more expensive. that makes me feel a lot better about the price of a prebuilt with Ubuntu.

no wait, no i'm still pissed that the default windows prebuilt would be cheaper.

What you pay for ...

[Tribbin]

What you pay for is garanteed hardware compatibility.

No modem, no driver problem

[schwaang]

And one way they achieved compatibility with Ubuntu was to pull out the modem!
As far as I can see, there's no way to configure a modem into the non-laptop models.

Re:No modem, no driver problem

[glwtta]

As far as I can see, there's no way to configure a modem into the non-laptop models.

A what?

Re:

[Teddy Beartuzzi]

Modulator-demodulator.

It's a fancy sound card, it makes all sorts of cool tones and whistles.

Re:

[Nimey]

Dell should have a link to buy an external modem if you really need one /that/ badly.

Ideally an RS-232 one.

Re:

[schwaang]

I'd be just fine with a softmodem so long as Dell can provide a Linux driver for it. Of course that's the issue at hand.

And Dell does offer an internal modem in the FreeDOS version of the E520N.

Re:

[Nimey]

Intel's softmodems work well in Linux. I have direct experience with the 536EP, and I expect the 537EP would be the same.

Proprietary driver, though. That's why I'd prefer an RS-232 modem if I was still stuck on dialup; then at most I'd just need to know the proper initialization string.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

If it's not a laptop, you can add a modem later for five bucks. Big dealy, yo.

Re:

[schwaang]

If it's not a laptop, you can add a modem later for five bucks. Big dealy, yo.

The whole point is guaranteed compatibility (i.e. "hassle free"). We want Dell to use their might to improve the driver situation for Linux.

BTW, I totally understand that in the amazingly short time-frame Dell launched this, it's not realistic to expect that they could solve a problem that the Linux community has been just living with for years. Kudos to Dell for what they've accomplished so far.

But I still hope they find a sane

50$ is just the start

[tanguyr]

Once you start adding the price of office and other commercial software with a solid foss alternative the gap widens even more. Of course, that's if you don't count the cost of your time spent managing your computer and its software. Depending on how familiar you are with one OS or the other, that could be a lot. Most importantly, linux should not be promoted as " just" a low cost alternative to windows. Keep in mind that it's also higher quality ;) (i can hear the hackles rising from here)

Re:50$ is just the start

[paulpach]

OpenOffice works both in windows and linux.
It is unfair to include the cost of office when comparing the cost of windows vs linux.

Available outside US?

[edxwelch]

Dell has being offering Windowless PCs for a long time, but only from their US website.
Just wondering if this is also the case for the Ubuntu deal?

Re:

[levell]

This is US only at the moment. Hopefully they'll roll it out to the UK and elsewhere soon!

Re:

[umStefa]

Well I know for fact that Dell's with Linux are NOT available in Canada.

Like comparsion with Vista Home Premium

[Gonarat]

I'm glad that Nat had to use Vista Home Premium in most of his examples -- I imagine that most people would want Home Premium if they were going to use Vista.

I also wonder what the price difference would be if XP Media Edition or XP Pro were still available.

The nice thing about Ubuntu for the home user is that most everything you need is either available or easy to install. I have been using Ubuntu dual boot with XP Pro on my laptop, and the only complaints I have is that wireless support could be better (

am I the only person

[Anonymous Cowpat]

who's not seeing these products for sale at dell.com ? Also, as someone else has mentioned, a measly $50 saving is pretty worthless unless you're trying to cram the price right down. I which case you'll be buying the cheapest computer. Which they're not offering Ubuntu on; clever.

Can you geeks make up your minds?

[Manitcor]

First it's

"wahhhh no OEM vendor will put *nix as an option on machines, whaa we have limited support, waahhh if we were more mainstream regular users would see how great *nix is"

Then it's

"Yaaaa go Dell, offering us what we want, give us the choice and we will show you that there is a market for linux."

Now it's

"Who cares if dell is offering linux, i can install it myself for free anyway or I can put together a better computer with bubble gum and bailing wire and make it run off a watch micro-processor. Regular people don't want linux blah blah blah"

You folks need to make up your minds. I think this is a great thing personally. I run both Windows and *nix systems and I used to be all about putting together my own PC's but now I have a life and other priorities rather than piecing together a custom system or digging up the information necessary to install some obscure video driver to make my selections work with my distro. I welcome being able to buy a pre-build and compatible *nix system from a vendor whom I can choke and yell at for anything gone wrong (hardware wise).

And you know what? That's what average folks want. In order to adopt linux as a home platform in Joe 6-pack's home you need that brand, you need that support and you need that gaurentee. Yes some people are afraid of changes and upgrade issues but its only more aggravated by the whole "the Internet is your support" mantra. Joe 6-pack doesn't want to read a 5 message boards to find out he needs to hand install some driver or app to get the feature he wants or to fix his machine. Granted a properly configured *nix environment should be rock stable but Joe 6-pack has been living in an MS world and needs to feel comfortable that he will have the same level of support he always has had.

Right now dell is offering these machines on a limited basis and is targeting the market segment that asked for these machines in the first place. If we don't step up to the plate and show Dell that this is a worthwhile idea then it will be scrapped before it has a chance to get going.

Personally I've been in the market for a new box and getting one ready to go with a warranty and a single support department to deal with makes the decision a lot easier and a lot less time consuming.

Yes I did save some money over a windows machine but that was never really the point of getting Dell to sell these things.

Re:Can you geeks make up your minds?

[N3WBI3]

Thats the thing about a community, they seldom speak wit hone unified voice.

Re:

[danbert8]

I have this same qualm to some degree. I think it's stupid to put Ubuntu on desktops. Anyone who is interested in Linux will most likely be interested in building their own computer. Where it gets interesting is on the laptop. I can't build one of my own, so I am interested in buying one that supports Linux. Since I would have to buy a manufactured one anyways, the Dell is quite attractive for its compatibility. Unfortunately, I would like to see some more powerful laptops in the lineup. The current

Re:

[Manitcor]

I can certainly agree with your sentiment about their single laptop offering. I am throwing my wallet in the ring on one of the desktop systems for now and will patiently wait to see if they offer more options on laptops. My current system has about 1 year of life left in it and then it will either be a Linux based laptop or an Apple. Here is to hoping Dell actually sees the support they are expecting and expand the line.

Re:

[f00man]

Make up OUR minds? The only thing we slashbots agree on is that free beer is good.... unless it's that watered down American swill. In that case, we'll brew our own, thank you.

I'll buy one...

[jonnyj]

...when they're offered for sale in the UK. It's a no-brainer. Dell's laptops are usually priced competitively and the $50 saving will add to that competitive edge. But, most of all, it'll take away the anxiety... Will the wireless work? Will I struggle to get the screen resolution right? Will the onboard ethernet show up? What about suspend?

In the light of this announceent, it'll be hard for me to justify buying my next laptop from anyone other than Dell.

DELL is selling Linux!

[headkase]

I would just like to step away from the conversation for a moment and just focus on one thing. DELL is selling Linux! This is a milestone for FOSS and I just wanted to point that out.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell Has Been selling linux that isn't news. What's news is that the coolest most hip linux is now being sold on home user class hardware (As opposed to the workstation class hardware on the business side)

Due to different hardware

[Tharkban]

When I looked at the same configuration for the laptop 1505N vs 1505 the price difference was about $100 but was explained more by the lack of the ATI graphics card in the linux model. The hardware differences are that the linux model does not include the ATI graphics card and includes the more expensive Intel wireless card.

Not just $50

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care very much about saving $50. What I care about is that it is Ubuntu Linux that just plain works out of the box.

"Linux is only free if your time is worthless." Remember that? Well, that goes for Windows too: you need to figure the cost of your time into the cost of Windows. For me, the real savings here is to just buy a laptop that will just work, and I won't need to buy antivirus and antispyware software, and run them faithfully, and administer that Windows box.

I love Ubuntu because once it's set up, it just works. Now we can buy computers already set up. Sweet.

Now you have a reasonable alternative to a Mac for relatives who aren't computer savvy. Anyone who is intimidated by administering antivirus and such, this is perfect.

Im seeing a lot made of the price difference

[moore.dustin]

People are already commenting on how everyone should be able to choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process. That is not a good thing for Dell/Ubuntu because it will only cause problems. This deal was made to sell Ubuntu Dells to people who wanted that, not to give people a money saving option.

Know this...A ton of people buy dells everyday and out of those, many are buying their first computer or are generally considered novice users. Now Dell is also a sort of bargain type place, so people may be more frugal, not all, but certainly a good amount. Stay with me here...

So now you have people customizing their computer, choosing Ubuntu to save $50, $80 whatever it is, getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy. Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is. Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and as a result, that computer user just had a nightmare experience and will never consider a Linux distro again. This is not a 'what if' scenario, this will happen and happen often if people are given the choice right off like people here want to see.

The point is this, if they list Ubuntu at $50 cheaper than windows to everyone with soliciting the Ubuntu option, it will be the end of this deal and it will not take long. The only way it would work is if Dell could manage to turn a profit from selling a machine loaded with Ubuntu, fielding all the support calls and then selling Windows at a higher cost to unsatisfied customers for a net gain that is worth that effort. So please, stop asking for equality in the OS choice screen during customization. If you get greedy like that, the whole program is probably going to go under. Be happy they are selling the boxes to you, not to your neighbor who does not know how to spell Linux.

technical support ..

[rs232]

Customer: My computer won't bla, bla, bla

Dell says: Reinstall from the restore CD and hangs up

"choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process"

They get an equivilent GUI desktop for roughly $100.00 less.

"getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy"

The get a GUI, a browser, email client, word processor and media player.

"Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is"

I would guess that they get less support calls for Ubuntu as given hardware failures Linux is more stable over the long term. It doesn't go sluggish like Windows does and you have to reinstall every six months or abouts.

"Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and"

The should do something like the one button restore [ibm.com] Levovo offers. Or put a base diagnostic system that can be invoked at boot time. Besides which there's only one thing more futile that working in a call center, that is working in one.

Im seeing a lot made of the price difference

The headline price is critical

[mtippett]

The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.

Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 [dell.com] - $369
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs [dell.com] - $679
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs [dell.com] - $

Linux seems to be $140 cheaper than Windows.

[argent]

They don't offer a Linux model configured comparably to the $369 Vista model, but by customixing donwn you can get the Linux version to $409. So for $40 more than the Vista model you get:

CPU: Celeron D => Core Duo
GPU: GMA X3000 => GMA950
RAM: 512M single channel at 533 => 1GB dual channel at 667
Disk: 160GB => 250GB
Net: 10/100 => 10/100/1000

Apart from the GPU, the Linux version is better in every way... but if you're looking for an entry level computer you're really looking for the unavailable $329 E520 with Ubuntu.

On the other hand, trying to configure a Vista box to match the Linux box, the best I can do is not $459, but $549... the following things are included in the price and can't be removed:

* Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
* Starter pack - Yahoo! Music, Corel Photo and Dell Games
* 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
* 6 Months of America Online Membership Included

The difference between the Intel X3000 and the older Intel GMA950 in the Linux box is presumably balanced by the 10/100 ethernet versus the 10/100/1000 in the Linux version.

Say what you like....

[Interested Bystander]

competition is a good thing. I hope this works out well. The company I work for is a big backer of Linux, but I am stuck with WinXP because that is what I am told to use. I am sure that some of the apps I have to use would not work. Ubuntu distro is soon to be on my box at home and my employer is promising training in Linux this October.

Small glitch on the page

[YU Nicks NE Way]

I went to the page a UMass-Lowell, and then priced out the Dimension E505 at Home Premium and 1GB ram at $429, and $399 w/ Home Basic. I don't see where the extra cost he reports comes from. (I confirm his other prices -- it costs roughly $50 to add Vista to any of the others.)

Where is it?

[Anon-Admin]

I go to www.dell.com and I do not see anywhere to select Linux. Can anyone even get to it from the main page?

It may be a bait and switch. "Here you can get a Linux desktop by following this link." Posts link on a few sites, "Look we only had 50 sales, no one wants linux."

Can anyone get to the page from the main dell.com site?

Worth it for Windows users, too

[eck011219]

Honestly, even if I wanted a Windows box, I'd consider buying one of these and then ordering an OEM Windows disc. The math works out to paying about $25 more and ending up with a Windows box without any of the crapware.

'Course, I'd do at least a dual boot anyway, but this might still be a good option for users who want a clean installation of Windows.

Re:

[(H)elix1]

You can make a 'clean' install CD that uses the OEM license key that comes with the machine. First off, snag a copy of nlite(http://www.nliteos.com) and a 'normal' copy of of the CD - any version works. Look for a file called setupp.ini on the dell (or whatever) machine and put that in place of what you copied off the other CD. Make it bootable, add drivers, fixpacks, and create an iso. (You cannot turn an OEM into a retail version, but retail to OEM works just fine). The Win32 install will then activa

What you get.

[ChardWreck]

PROCESSOR Intel® Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
MONITORS No Monitor
MEMORY 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE 48X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
VIDEO CARD 256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
SOUND CARD Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
KEYBOARD & MOUSE Dell USB Keyboard
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Mouse Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Network Interface Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet

$459.00 Not Including Shipping

Not all that bad really. And there is a 3d card. Not the best but its something.

I wish Windows become an +50$ radio-button option

[dom1234]

Please choose an operating system :
        o Ubuntu (included)
        o Windows Vista (+50$)

That would be great.

After choosing the +50$, a pop up should warn that extra memory is required for the same level of performance.

Multiple reasons.

[khasim]

#1. It's $80 and why send money to Microsoft if you aren't buying Microsoft software?

#2. It's Dell. They have nationwide support. If you move, you can still get support.

#3. It'd Dell. They move a LOT of boxes. This will be incentive for those hardware vendors to support Linux to get in on this market.

Re:

[Ravnen]

At least as important, I think, is if Dell actually work to ensure there are Linux drivers for the hardware they're selling. Linux hardware support on laptops is often so bad that it's effectively unusable. If Dell restrict their Linux offerings to a few specific hardware configurations that already have good hardware support, I don't think it will make much of a difference to the market.

PRE-LOADED!!! :)

[khasim]

Yep. And even better than having the drivers available is having the drivers PRE-LOADED!

Re:

[Mad Merlin]

Intel graphics cards have historically been bad options for OpenGL and 3D apps in Linux.

That is most definitely not the case now. Intel cards are certainly not speed demons, but they work quite well as they have good open source drivers written by Intel themselves. Intel employs several of the main X.org hackers, including Keith Packard. Also see this announcement [freedesktop.org].

I would recommend an Intel graphics card over an Nvidia or ATI for a Linux machine unless you plan on playing demanding games like Quake 4 or

Re:

[Endo13]

Well, getting the same laptop at $599 instead of $649 is a nice little savings. It's not huge. The real reason that this is important however is that there needs to be some incentive for people other than those of us who already use Linux to buy a Ubuntu PC from Dell. So now the choice is you can either a.) stick with the familiar Windows system or b.) save a little cash. If they were priced the same there would be very few new people trying the Ubuntu PCs and sales would be too low for it to really be prof

I do

[vrimj]

I am not a tech type person. The idea of dealing with finding hardweare drivers for a laptop to install linux on my own is just scary. All the same when I read the EULA for Vista I knew I would not be using it. I need a new laptop soon and had resigned myself to paying for an apple just to avoid Vista and have an OS that was still supported. I suspect that these laptops are for people like me, savvy enough to use with the new interfaces, but not yet read to install Be happy, this means I wont show up and b

Re:Who... fscking... cares

[blindd0t]

"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?

To my mother, who I am proud to say has been using Linux since Ubuntu 6.06 was released, Linux seems more reliable. She still clicks on those goofy advertisement images that look like they have real buttons, but guess what - her machine doesn't need to be reformatted within a week after that takes place! So in her eyes, the machine is more reliable.

To my grandmother, she only wants to be able to talk to family via email. Why does she need to spend any more than the bare minimum? Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.

And why not take this a little further... What if I'm a small company in need of some "thin client" computers. Why should I pay even a little extra for an operating system on 20 computers, when I can get it for free and completely avoid those fees (which would be a significant price difference, no doubt).

(Though this does not apply to the dell desktops directly, these could be used for this purpose...) John/Jane Doe wants to start a new business where a web-based application with a database is required. Why should he/she need to pay for a Windows server environment and Microsoft SQL Server licenses? The benefit here is clearly that a good deal of additional money can be focused on the business requirements, and not initial licensing costs.

Of course, I could present many more real-life examples I'm aware of... While that may not be a majority of the market, it is a solid start to appeal to these constituent groups, and it could to be quite lucrative long-term. Your needs are one thing, but I'm merely suggestion not being egocentric and suggesting we think of others' needs instead. Doing this will clearly benefit the entire community long-term.

Re:Who... fscking... cares

[mhall119]

Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.

Heh, kind of puts "free upgrades for life" into a whole new perspective, doesn't it?

Tagline could be "Ubuntu: you'll die before it does."

Re:

[ScentCone]

Why is 50 bucks such a big deal?

Well, if for no other reason, it's interesting because the ol' "Microsoft Tax" canard is one of those foundation building blocks of MS hatred. How many times have you read, right here, that even if a major direct-to-consumer dealer/manufacturer WERE to ship boxes with Linux onboard, that Teh Evil Micro$oft would still be making sure that machine sold for MORE than an OEM-Windows-equipped box would. This is interesting because it lets some of the hot air out of that particu

Re:Not really a troll

[shaitand]

'the obvious advancement of Open Source shouldn't be talked about. It makes me feel like there is a "STFU" campaign.'

I couldn't agree more. When I first started Slashdotting just about any pro Linux and pro Open Source comment would get modded up if it was coherent.

Over time this has changed. A sure way to get up-modded now is to point out how zealots upmod pro Linux comments and Microsoft bash comments. Actually pointing out a strength of Linux or Open Source over proprietary software, pointing out flaws in typical proprietary software sympathizer arguments, or even Microsoft bashing that is ontopic is solidly grounded in fact will get you modded down now.

I watch the moderation. Usually when the discussion is hot, an Insightful pro open source stance will get modded as such but a day or two after a story first hits the front page troll mods will come in. Actually, within the past couple months people see to have fallen in love with overrated moderations when there is no legitimate reason to downmod something. This way it is more likely to survive meta-moderation.

Either a bunch of Microsoft and proprietary software fanboys have started to camp on Slashdot (an awefully strange place for an MS fanboy to hang out) or the industry has recognized that Slashdot is a critical front in the development of Tech trends and prevailing attitudes and there are now paid PR shills monitoring Slashdot.

Re:

[shaitand]

'And when other people from that same community cease to blindly mod up every such most out of some distorted sense of team spirit, they're exhibiting a much more mature, and economically aware posture.'

Nobody is complaining about FOSS posts not getting modded up out of a sense of team spirit. The problem is that opposite happens. Up to date, informative, and sound posts are being modded down if they take a pro FOSS software stance. Further, a pro commercial stance is now being blindly modded up. The fact t

Re:

[Machtyn]

ah, shucks, I was hoping to spend some of my mod points on this thread. But I had to respond. You may not recommend Dells to your friends, but I, like you, have a lot of people ask me for recommendations. I will now specifically tell them about Dell Ubuntu machines and recommend them highly. Unfortunately, there aren't any good deals in my local area to justify a local pc/notebook recommendation.

Re:

[prelelat]

Have you ever noticed all the trial software on a dell computer? That is advertisment paid to dell that is partially used to bring down the cost. So without that the price of the computer would be more as Dell isn't making money off of the advertisment. At least thats what I'm told.

Piracy

[ThJ]

I think what's going to happen is that Windows geeks will buy a Dell machine with Ubuntu installed, wipe the drive, and install a pirated copy of Windows.

Re:

[traindirector]

install a pirated copy of Windows

This isn't easy for the typical user to do with Vista (yet?), as far as I know. Even with XP and activation, there were VLKs. Doing a quick search, I don't see any easy-to-find Vista activation circumvention without drawbacks.

Maybe this has something to do with why Dell is finally selling PCs with a non-MS OS.

Re:Piracy

[donaldm]

I am waiting for my new HP laptop which will come with MS Vista Ultimate (I get a very good discount). Since I work with Linux and Unix machines I am going to make a recovery DVD set for MS Vista and then proceed to pirate a copy of Fedora 7 and put it on the machine (no dual booting), then using Xen I will proceed to install pirated copies of selected distributions of Linux including a pirated copy of Open Solaris.

My reason for making a recovery set is so when I sell my PC in a years time the buyer has the option of a legitimate copy of MS Vista or they can have my pirated but updated copies of Linux. I wonder what the buyer will pick?

Re:

[el americano]

This is mentioned a lot, but I've never seen an estimate of how much they get paid. I assume it's a small fraction of what they pay for an OEM Windows license, but since it's free money (i.e. there's no user backlash) they continue to visit this on their Windows buyers, and likely soon on their Linux buyers too.

It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper...

[MoxFulder]

... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).

Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.

Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?

Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper..

[edwdig]

Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost.

I think the issue is Intel offers open source drivers for their integrated video cards. Less legal complications and less software complications that way. Also, the Windows variants of these machines seem to offer ATI graphics cards, which are the most likely to have problems under Linux.

Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper..

[jomas1]

... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).

Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.

Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?

I spoke with a Dell rep yesterday and he told me that all of the Ubuntu Dell options are 64 bit. I don't think you can fault Dell here. They do have to make an investment to make Linux a viable option and I don't see why they should have to offer more than a few base systems right now. If people are buying Ubuntu Dells, we'll see what happens.

Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper..

[MoxFulder]

Well... they all offer 64-bit if you upgrade the processors, but the default processor for the laptop is a Pentium Dual-Core (rebranded Intel Core Duo with half the cache). You have to pay about $100 extra to get 64-bit and virtualization. Whereas for $500 they offer the Inspiron 1501, a Windows laptop, with the Turion 64 X2 TL-50 processor which has both those Linux-hacker-friendly features: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /inspn_1501?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=FamCustom [dell.com]

64-bit advantages

[Dolda2000]

Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost.

I'm curious -- not saying you're wrong -- but do you have any source/benchmark for that "performance boost" statement? My educated guess would be rather the exact opposite, seeing how 64-bit pointers all over the board will increase memory bandwidth usage, cache load (and therefore misses) and possibly even start to cause paging before the equivalent 32-bit system would. All wit

Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper..

[MoxFulder]

Yeah, I agree with the idea of sending a message. But it has to be "worth" sending that message: would I rather pay $600 and get a Windows license that I don't want, or choose from a more limited selection, and pay $800 to get a nearly identical system without that Windows license?

Of course, I made the choice that is most personally advantageous to me. I suspect this is a big reason why desktops bundled with Linux haven't caught on: small companies that try and sell Linux-based desktops don't have the same purchasing power and economies of scale as behemoths like Dell and HP which bundle their systems with Windows. So us Linux geeks buy the systems with Windows bundled and just discard it. We save money, but we pay Microsoft as well, so we're not saving as much money as we could in theory.

I think this is a pretty bold and impressive move by Dell... I just hope that they extend it across their entire product line. If the Customization options for every Dell system included a choice like, "Operating System: Ubuntu Linux (subtract $50/$100 from price)", you'd bet there'd soon be a *lot* more people running Ubuntu. Maybe a rough adjustment for those users and for tech support at first, but I believe the Linux community would come out far ahead in adoption in perception in a short amount of time.

Re:Anyway

[jomas1]

As I see the situation: those are are technically minded and wanted to taste something different have experimented with Linuzzz at this time and are able to download and install the thing /almost) without help, so they are not the target of this new item.

Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...

So really, why don't pay, say 10 USD more to get Windows and THEN if you like to be cool, get the Linuzz pain and install it?

I must say that I'm really skeptic about this whole thing.... but who knows... After all we all know that THIS is the year of Linuzzz on the desktop.

I can now buy a 64 bit computer with 4 gigs of RAM that is guaranteed to work with Linux for $1000. This will allow me to have one machine that can comfortably run 1 desktop-friendly virtual machine and several developer-friendly virtual machines using Xen or VmWare. Last week I would have to wonder if my $1000 "bargain" would have caused me lots of grief because of Linux incompatibilities. Dell just eased my mind and made a grand off of me.

Re:

[jomas1]

Could you please post the computer (model, additions, etc) that you purchased? I am in the market for a new laptop myself, and am looking for one like you mentioned here (similar requirements, for VM's, etc). While the Ubuntu Dell laptop is too underpowered for my liking, I am considering a Dell to support them for their Linux support...

Thanks

Ok, it's $1000 because I already have a monitor and because of the typical Dell instant discounts.

Dell Dimension E520N
Upgrade Processor to most expensive option Intel® Core(TM) 2 E6420 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,2.13GHZ,1066FSB)
Select Ubuntu 7.04 w/o support
Select no monitor
Upgrade to 4 gigs of RAM
Select standard HardDrive 250 GB
Select DVD Burner upgrade
Select Standard Graphics option
Select Standard Sound Card
Select No Speakers

Total $909

Re:

[tanguyr]

Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...

That's kind of unlikely, given that the windows and linux versions are not on the same page, so you really have to *want* to buy a linux machine. I'm sure there will be a few people out there who will do what you describe, but, really, anybody that dim would have problems with any operating system.

Re:

[icebones]

this is the main reason I'm havn't switched. I put together an old dell cpx for my new business and wanted, really wanted to just install Ubuntu on it and be done. You know, start the biz on open source from the start. But my primary application was going to be dreamweaver which doesn't run on linux. I looked for a good linux alt, but there isn't one. the best i could come up with was NVU and it doesn't come close. So I installed an old copy of 2000 on it and went on, wondering just how much longer i w

Re:

[danbert8]

I think the goal was to have good open source drivers, ATI and nVidia haven't quite stepped up to the plate on that yet. I hope this may cause them to put a little more effort into either open sourcing their drivers, or improving their closed source ones.

Re:

[Mostly a lurker]

If you want a state of the art games machine, Ubuntu is the wrong base anyway. Sure, the latest NVidia and ATI graphics cards are far more powerful, but the Intel cards have quite enough oomph for anything you will want to run on Linux desktop in practice, even Beryl.

I am personally delighted that Dell is offering good practical machines that should just work. People who buy these should end up as happy customers. In the long term, that is good for both Dell and Linux.

Re:

[Lothsahn]

Did you even check out the site? Both desktops offer an NVidia 7300 w/TurboCache. In fact, it's the default configuration for the XPS model.

Not exactly a screaming fast card, but it's got 3D capability.

Re:No 3D in laptops.

[wile_e_wonka]

I personally have a 3 and a half year old Dell D400 laptop with the Intell 855GM integrated graphics card. It runs Beryl just fine. I've switched to Compiz for the latest rendition of Ubuntu and that works fine too.

I'm sure the card can't handly anywhere near whatmost nVidia cards can, but the Intel card definitely handles the basic eyecandy without problems.

Re:

[Dracos]

Dell has to support Windows just like any other OEM. Microsoft doesn't do it. If they did, they'd go bankrupt.

People who order Dellbuntu machines likely need less support anyway. Even better, an individual is more likely to get support from the Ubuntu community than Microsoft.

As for the pricing, perhaps Dell realized that their pricing scheme for the ill-fated N series was stupid (remember, the Linux machines cost more than the equivalent hardware with Windows?)