MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML" 190
HansF writes "Microsoft itself is the surprise winner of the FFII's Kayak Prize 2007, offered by the FFII in its call for rejection of Microsoft's OOXML standards proposal. The software monopolist is honored as 'Best Campaigner against OOXML Standardization.' FFII president Pieter Hintjens explains, 'We could never have done this by ourselves. By pushing so hard to get OOXML endorsed, even to the point of loading the standards boards in Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, and beyond, Microsoft showed to the world how poor their format is. Good standards just don't need that kind of pressure. All together, countries made over ten thousands technical comments, a new world record for an ISO vote. Microsoft made a heroic — and costly — effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.'" If Microsoft doesn't send a representative to claim their 2500-Euro prize at the FFII General Assembly in November, FFII will give the money to Peruvian earthquake relief.
Y'know.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Y'know.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Y'know.... (Score:4, Funny)
Chairstorm at Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)
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Correction: MS has helped the IT security industry more than any other company. Only because of MS are Norton or McAfee in business.
I wouldn't be too smug (Score:5, Insightful)
Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think the ISO organization will allow M$ to damage their reputation that way. The OOXML vote is an international scandal and the people who count are not going to forget it. The whole business has already been damaging to ISO and they would do better to bury ooxml.
Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.
Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.
Re:Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure why it looks "easily" to corrupt ISO to you. It did take a lot of effort behind the scenes, give them credit where it's due.
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and it was risk free. (Score:3, Insightful)
In the US, the Wintel press has cranked up nonsense about how ooxml's demise was "political", which spins everything upside down. A company that owns it's own broadcast network, a sizeable number of newspapers, and spends a billion dollars a month in advertising does have it easy when it comes to blanketing the world with it's opinions.
The attack was also easy because there is little downside to it from their persective. They hate
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And it still wasn't enough. But I can't stop assuming that Microsoft just wasn't competent enough and next time it will be much easier with all the experience they gathered.
Re:Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the best parts is WGA. Microsoft doesn't have the users who build their custom machines, but decide against the cost of the MS retail boxed version taxes. Spending $600-1200 on a custom box build soon finds the cost of an OS and Office suite a good part of building that can no longer be migrated from the old box. Alternatives to expensive restrictive software are now part of the cost decision.
I used to upgrade hardware re-using my legal copy of Windows 98. XP and Vista have ended that process. XP now simply means it is residing on the oldest slowest machine in the house as it is not upgradable (without playing mother-may-I with Microsoft who may say no way). Vista is the same dead end. I am test driving Ubuntu Dapper Drake (the long term support distro), Fiesty Fawn (newer but has issues), and Freespire (out of the box rich Web browsing with codecs and flash) on my new home built hardware. XP will retire on the hardware it arrived on. In it's lifetime it only got a hard drive repalcement due to hardware failure and a memory upgrade. It won't be moving on to a Core 2 Duo box simply due to the EULA, vendor hardware specific recovery disc, and WGA to enforce it.
Thank You Microsoft for closing the door on software re-use, right of first sale, and encouraging me to expand my horizons. I have learned the advantages first hand of not runing with administrator privilages, Software not vendor tied to hardware, open standards, community developement, GNU GPL, and no longer dealing with a per seat restrictive EULA.
Thank You Red Hat, Caldera (pre SCO), Novell SUSE, Mozilla, Sun Microsystems, IBM, ODF, EFF, Adobe, and everyone else who made this possible.
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I've got Gutsy installed at home now, and the 'server' off (just using the desktop for that as well), but Feisty at work still... SO looking forward next month to when I can j
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If you don't use the eye-candy and set it up from the default 2 desktops to 4 or 6, then you get desktops without toolbars. It's hard to switch desktops if you don't know the keyboard shortcut and the toolbar is missing. The networking is a little changed for SMB workgroups, so I can log into my server and transfer files just fine on my Dapper Drake box, but for some reason my Fiesty box hangs in a transfer. It crashes one Simple Share NAS of mine every
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As for the NAS... That's really odd. I've only rarely tried to connect to an SMB share from Linux... Mostly I'm hosting them. Afraid I can't be much help with that.
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Move everything over to NFS and use rsync for backup.
Works like a charm, no matter what version of ubuntu or any other distro you're using. Break the paradigm in your network storage just like you broke the paradigm in your OS choice.
Just a suggestion.
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Agreed as soon as I install it. For some reason Ubuntu came with SMB client installed but not NFS client.
Re:Vista WGA (Score:3, Informative)
That may be OK for a retail boxed version that comes with an install disk. This isn't OK for the OEM factory installed system. Just try to use a Dell recovery DVD on a homebuilt box. The EULA forbids the OS transfer and the recovery DVD program won't recover to another machine. With that in mind, the WGA
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Mi
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Tell me more about reloading OEM Dell XP without the Cruft! Can it be done with the discs that shipped with the PC, or do you have to buy a replacement copy from Dell sans cruft?
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Dell Windows XP Home OEM codes will work with any Windows XP Home OEM disc, etc. This is not entirely true, actually, as they ran out of codes and now you need the new Home OEM disc with all the new codes to guarantee new codes will work, and I don't ha
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It's not legal for me to have both the Home and Pro copies. I'll have to check into the price of the OEM discs. I presume they are priced for the media only and contain no license as the license is in the sticker on the machine.
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I'm not sure what recovery DVD you're referring to... Perhaps something for Vista, or Media Center Edition? All of the Dells I've seen in the last year or two come with a recovery CD that works just fine on any machine. It's basically a regular WinXP install CD with a Dell label on it.
We've got a bunch of these Dell recovery CDs floating around the office
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XP home edition on about a 5 year old Dell. I'll have to grab the disk. I haven't used it since the hard drive was replaced. I thought it was a Norton Ghost hard drive image, not an install disk.
What you need to do is enter the OEM license from the sticker on the PC you're rel
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If you're moving to a new home made whitebox then you cannot move your licensing. OEM licensing is tied to the hardware itself.
Re:Vista WGA back on topic (Score:2)
This is why I thanked Microsoft. Instead of biting the bullet and throwing away a copy of XP with the Dell and then buying a new copy of XP for the new hardware, I tried the alternative. WGA and the tie of XP and Vista to the OEM Dell, HP and other machines is good for Open Source. You can migrate your data, but not your Microsoft OS. Thanks again for the nudge out of the nest.
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I didn't know it would install on other hardware. I'm so used to all the other Norton Ghost disks that are vendor specific that fails on anything that isn't the genuine model it was made for.
I'm going to try Edgy when it's out of Beta. Maybe at the rebuild, I'll dual boot to run Turbo Tax.
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This has been brought to you by an Ubuntu user.
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My bad. I mixed up the names. I skipped Edgy and simply went from Dapper (still running) and put Feisty on the new Core 2 Duo box. I'll try Gutsy when it's out of Beta later this month. Maybe it will play nicer with my NAS.
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Dell has included the full OS CD/DVD with every computer they've sold since Windows XP came out. That's the main reason I buy from them and not their competitors. (And I think it contributes a good amount to their success.) The "recovery CD" that came with your Dell doesn't include Windows, it includes all the machine-specific drivers only. The Windows CD/DVD that came with
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This I didn't know. It has been about 3 years since the hard disk failure and re-install.
Technically, OEM numbers aren't transferrable between computers, but in reality Microsoft will always re-activate it if you ask.
It is prohibited in the EULA. It was a big part of the "
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Have you called them? They approve the reactivation 100% of the time, even if you tell them you're blatantly breaking the license. (I've had them refuse Office once, again when I was blatantly breaking the license, but never Windows.)
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My only encounter with WGA was watching illegal copies not get flagged or otherwise harassed while my wife's legitimate copy on her Dell flagged and MS explained that we would have to wipe the drive and reins
What if both you and GP are right? (Score:2)
Third party/hobbyist software development will grow thinner on Windows (except fully commercial projects) and richer on Linux/BSD/whatever.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft won't be happy with that, because having the greater variety in software has so far been an advantage for Microsoft. There is a reason why Ballmer tends do dance around shouting "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS"
You bastards !!! (Score:2)
Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Informative)
The medium is the message (Score:5, Insightful)
Their message is "I am cool. I use the newest stuff. My dick is bigger than yours".
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You and 90% of the other responses I've seen modded "Insightful" should just stop the reverse-FUD. You're only scratching each others backs and doing nothing to educate others of the benefits to alternative solutions. If
Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Funny)
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Change the punctuation a bit, and that's Microsoft's game plan in a nutshell....
Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Informative)
Also, I believe Office 2003 uses a normal ".xml" extension [filext.com][2] for its version of OOXML, while OOXML from Office 2007 uses the normal Office extensions with an appended "x" or "m" (the "m" is if you have macros embedded) - e.g. ".docx" and ".docm" [filext.com].
[1] Last I knew it was not available publically, however, a Google search [google.com] turned it up (3rd result).
[2] Search for "OFFICE" and you'll find a number of "OFFICE11" paths.
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http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/mac/download/Office2004/ConverterBeta.xml&secid=4&ssid=34&flgnosysreq=True [microsoft.com]
Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Informative)
And the Office 2003 using XML is for a totally different format, which was also available in a previous version of office (though with less features), which is literally the Office 2003 format but in XML instead of binary, and is a totally different deal than the docx format from 2007, and existed years before Office 2007 came out. It is, for example, the format that is often used to generate Office documents through XSLT. It was used a "long" time ago, and I personally still use that format since it is simpler to generate document with for internal, short term purposes compared to docx, since it doesn't require the additional operation of putting the files together and zipping (which isn't a big deal, but its nice to be able to simply invoke an XSLT processor with no additional steps).
The plugin above will use the virtually the same docx format, used the same way, as Office 2007.
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I noted that that was the last I had checked. When my work first deployed it, I searched for it and was unable to find it. I believe MS distributed it to certain their enterprise customers before making it publicly available. In searching for it again for that post, I discovered that it had since become publically available. This was more just a note than anything else.
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Regardless of your liking it or not, MS Office 2007 is out there - and people will be using it, increasingly more so as time goes on. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not so, but even so, some hapless customer will save his latest contract draft in Word and email it to me for review - personally, I'd like to read it. I don't care how you in IT make that happen, but is it an unreasonable request? I think not. Is sending back a smug reply - we don't take your kind here - acceptable? Again, I think not.
Microsoft has designed that format so that the only way to view it is to use Office2007. So buy Office2007. Their spec cannot be implemented (hence the mess at ISO). Best case, the text may be extracted. Of course if you don't happen to run a supported platform (i.e. anything other than a recent version of Windows), you're screwed.
You're confusing "staff" and "wizards".
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http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925180 [microsoft.com]
Outside of large corporations, I find that a lot of people have stuck with Office 97 for example (and I'm moving quite a few of them to OOo).
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Not true. There is a plugin for Office 2003 to use the new formats, as well as a viewer.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925180 [microsoft.com]
Where is at least OS X viewer? They are the largest software company in Mac scene you know? Macs are the king on DTP and they already code for Mac, happily sell $400 Office and doesn't code a damn viewer.
You know, they could fire XCode, would click couple of "Office Frameworks" to be included, start some Cocoa viewer project and release it just tomorrow if they wanted to.
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This argument cuts both ways and highlights the importance of open standards. I don't have windows at home, and my wife (definitely non techie - doesn't know the difference between a binary and its icon) doesn't want windows at home. Businesses that insist on communicating via windows specific technology g
corrected link for ODF plugin (Score:2)
Here is the correct link to the free ODF import/export plugin [sun.com]. The one at sourceforge is the one sponsored by MS and has only recently started work. The Sun plugin has been ready for a while now.
They jury is still out as to whether MS will fund the sourceforge project to completion or even allow it to be completed. Seeing as MSOOXML can't be implemented without full details of some undocumented, proprietary, legacy specifications, full implementation is contingent on a lot of help and heretofore unavaila
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Exactly, a file format should not be able to dictate what you switch to... Your devision of what to use might boil down to "we need to open files in format x, only y supports x so we must use y", regardless of so many other important factors like cost, performance, usability, stability, long term support etc.
Without proprietary fo
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One wonders what the point of it is.
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Novell's patched version of OpenOffice supports DOCX and runs on linux...
With MS patents which may hit those naive companies the time when they least expected.
I don't see why an IT department choose Suse after recent happenings and MS puppet guy being manager there. Want a competing product which is supported very well? Go with IBM stuff. Hard to manage? No it needs real admins only.
What is left from Suse Linux except a MS puppet in charge and shadowy agreements with a company which still have chap 11 rumours on various finance boards?
It is the standard suggesting companies job
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you did the icon wrong (Score:2, Funny)
Microsft? A hero? (Score:2, Insightful)
If I see an armed mugger robbing two women, and then run away screaming, and the robber looks at me for a second, giving one of the women enough time to open a can of woop-ass, that doesn't make me a hero.
Re:Microsft? A hero? (Score:5, Funny)
A better analogy would be the Yen Buddhists, who believe that the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden on the soul and they therefore, regardless of personal hazard, see it as their unpleasant duty to acquire as much money as possible to reduce the risk to innocent people.[1]
[1] With apologies to Terry Pratchett
They could win another award (Score:5, Funny)
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I wish this where true, but it's not reality, I can't see how you can say it is. Facts are that many (perhaps even most) governments have "standardized" on Microsoft and Adobe. They may end up regretting it, but facts are facts.
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Many governments have stated that they intend to convert to a format that is approved by ISO as an international standard in the near future. This is the entire reason why Microsoft is so keen on pushing OOXML though the ISO process. Because if they fail, they'd have to either implement native support for ODF or they would no longer be an option for many governments.
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NO!!! (Score:2, Funny)
ac@slashdot.org
On behalf, (Score:5, Funny)
If anyone with a valid checking account could help with this, I am willing to give them a small convenience fee of 10% plus any expenses. Please down load my personal instant messaging program [wikipedia.org] and shoot me a message. If you have difficulty installing it, you can email me directly at 419 at nigeria.embasy [wikipedia.org] Notice I used the "at" instead of the "@" sign in the email address to avoid spammers and scammers.
Thank you in advance to anyone able to help.
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FFII? (Score:4, Funny)
Is this the Japanese numbering of Final Fantasy II, or the USA releases?
Re:FFII? (Score:5, Informative)
actually, the abbreviation stands for the Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure [ffii.org], a not-for-profit organization that has campaigned (in Europe), among other things, against software patents, excessive "intellectual" "property" rights and for open standards.
New Country Tune (Score:2)
Unfortunately... (Score:2, Insightful)
They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.
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OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.
Whatever they came up with was likely to be a de facto standard of sorts. But blocking this from becoming a de jure standard is still a somewhat surprising victory, and we should celebrate winning a battle, even if the war is far from over.
For that matter, for all its flaws, MSOOXML is an improvement over MS's older formats. While it may not be transparent like ODF, it is, at the least, fairly translucent compared to their earlier, opaque formats. The fact that they've gone as far as they have towards t
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The problem is that this doesn't change much.
They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.
For it to happen, they should do some guerilla coding. MS refuses to ship viewers for competing systems? Code a Cocoa (OS X), native Windows 95/98 (yes, old) and a JRE 5 application and make sure it is the easiest thing ever to install and use.
What they do instead? They completely misunderstand Mac business scene, announce Aqua version will be stable in Q4 2008 and lag the 2.3.x OS X/X11 release a week or more while "Windows" version is released on time.
I can't understand why OS X version is lagged? First
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And then there were none... (Score:2)
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The best way to show that someone is an idiot is often to
MS is experienced in shooting their own foot (Score:5, Interesting)
But then they stepped across the line where the average user grins and bears it. After a major repair, another call. After a few more, the spanish inquisition starts. People start to get nervous. They didn't do anything wrong, yet they feel as suspects for copying software. Software they bought honestly. People also care whether they can do what they used to do. Now DRM is hanging over their heads, and they start looking at their friends who use Linux, who don't have to call, who don't have to register, who get tons of software for free and legally so, and with the various installers the distributions have, it's also only a mouseclick away.
People start to look around for alternatives. Being the moderator of a "non-geek tech board", I got a pretty good idea what bugs the "Average Joe" users and what direction they take. For about a year now, we have had a vastly increasing number in postings containing questions about Linux, which distribution to take, how to install it and how to get it going, quickly followed by quite happy notes how easy it was.
I've been trying to talk them into it for a few years now. Until recently the response was mostly "What for?". Now there's a reason. So if anyone helped Linux become more of a mainstream system, it's MS.
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So maybe it's not the average Joe without any clue, but people who would fit into the "intermediate" slot. They got a computer, they generally don't want to
MS could recover (Score:2)
*Kayak* award? (Score:3, Informative)
This [kayakcam.com] is a kayak.
These [noooxml.org] are canoes.
That is all.
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I just love being right on a rainy Brussels afternoon.
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Re:A ploy? (Score:5, Insightful)
But yes, it can be hard to overcome the market leader. But, then again, if Microsoft were really sure that they controlled the market, why go through the trouble of standardizing? Because large parts of the world were looking elsewhere, especially governments.
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In MS's defense, TCP/IP wasn't a great option at the time either. MS was working with NetBEUI before DHCP came on the scene for instance.
Sure, they could have put the effort they spent in developing NetBEUI into fixing their objections to TCP/IP, but there was also plenty of work done on NetBEUI by that point already as well, so I don't think it was clear at the time tha
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Remember Microsoft's numerous attempts to define a networking standard so that they could crush the TCP/IP network protocol? NetBUI anyone?
Uh, no. Perhaps you'd like to tell the story of how Microsoft supposedly tried to "crush" TCP/IP with a broadcast-heavy, unroutable network protocol designed for small, unmanaged workgroups ?
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I think duplicate comments would be even worse than unique ones. If a huge number of the reviewers see the same failings in the spec, then obviously the spec is clearly broken and should have been worked on more before even being submitted, much less before being considered for a fast-track approval.
Re:Please help (Score:5, Funny)
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You need a bit of a rewrite on that troll and then you can give it another try. We'll still be here, promise.