Apple Allows Lotus On iPhone (After Banning Competitor) 150
ImNotAtWork writes "Apple is allowing IBM's Lotus
to be installed on iPhones. Recently it killed a developer-submitted program that was deemed competitive with Apple's product."
Withdraw this article before it's too late! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Withdraw this article before it's too late! (Score:5, Informative)
Seconded. I imagine that apple did, in fact, ban this from the 'real' application store, but this is a webapp - a monstrosity of HTML, Javascript, and AJAX. It's just a webpage, and Apple doesn't give two shits. And even if they did, they couldn't do anything about it.
HIGHLY MISLEADING ARTICLE!
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Apple interprets choice as damage and routes around it.
The Next iPhone Killbot (Score:2)
Wernstrom: [futurama-madhouse.com.ar] "Ladies and gentlemen, my Killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
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Lotus Notes for iPhone is just a plain old Web app. You can't stop the web.
Unless you're Al Gore. "I brought you into this world, . . . "
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You can't stop the web.
Just wait until they release the iPhone 0G.
Re:Withdraw this article before it's too late! (Score:4, Insightful)
Pointless. This is likely a self-hosted webapp (on your corporate Lotus server), which means their list would need to include lotus.jpmorgan.com, etc... that would be a Big Fucking Mistake. They might not care about the enmity of users, but they sure care about their business users who could just as easily go back to Windows Mobile.
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They might not care about the enmity of users, but they sure care about their business users who could just as easily go back to Windows Mobile.
Or their Blackberry. I'm curious to see how well the Blackberry Bold and Storm do against the iPhone. Apple came first, but now their phone shortcomings can be fixed by those coming later (G1, new Blackberries, etc).
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Then three things would happen:
1. The login page would be 'fixed' to render properly and life would continue as normal
2. This is pretty obvious, isn't it? The only thing they could reasonably break and have it be called an accident would be some styling thing. You can't break forms for the page without it being obvious, you can't break them globally without it being really obvious, so you can stop serving a stylesheet until you have it fixed. This would be found out and it would be really obvious.
3. Corpora
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>meantime, an underhanded developer could pay Apple some protection money
PASS THE BONG DUDE!!!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Notes is different (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not defending Apple's decisions on what apps can run and can't; if anything I'm really p*ssed that they would prevent any "competitive" product from running on the iPhone.
That said, Notes is something completely different than a straight email program. If anything, it's basically a database program, and email is just another schema in it. It's so completely unlike regular email programs that I could see Apple not having a problem with it, especially since you need to have a Notes server to get/put anyth
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You've apparently been drinking far too much of Lotus' kool-aid. Yes, Notes can do lots of databasey things. But, let's be honest here. No matter how much Notes infrastructure your company tries to put in place, well over 90% of most users' experience with it is email. Lotus simply needs to understand that.
I really wish Lotus would get this concept through their heads. I don't care HOW much they try to sell its other "features" (which now directly compete against ... WEB APPLICATIONS!), if they can't g
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Re: Notes is crap (Score:2, Informative)
Lotus notes may have a great database or whatever, and some nice features like integrated calendars and meeting notes... but the interface sucks donkey nuts. Rotten, maggoty, herpes-infected donkey nuts.
Keyboard shortcuts and terminology are completely different from every other program out there. I mean, F5 is the standard refresh key in Windows and every other program I've used... but in Notes, F5 is the "lock interface" key. F9 refreshes. And selecting multiple items with control or shift doesn't wor
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I think its incredible that they wont let people download their own email client. The vendor of the phone shouldnt even have this power. Email clients are basic functionality. Installing your own doesnt hurt Apple in any way. Typical Apple: run by short-sighted MBAs. Im so glad I didnt give in to the iphone madness. WM isnt sexy but it runs everything.
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While I completely agree that Apple needs to seriously loosen it's grip on iPhone developers, I wouldn't say this is a decision driven by "short-sighted MBAs." It's far more likely that this is Steve Jobs saying, "My way is the best, and you can only do it my way."
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+1 for actually reading the article before posting (Score:5, Informative)
Did the poster even read this article before posting it? It clearly says that it's a web based application that will run through the Safari browser. Nothing gets installed on the iPhone. Try reading it next time before posting, that way the headline you choose might make sense.
Parent is NOT a troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
I cannot understand the reason why the parent is a troll. The "application" in this case is a web application, not a native installed application.
The post, states clearly:
"Apple is allowing IBM's Lotus to be installed on iPhones. Recently it killed a developer submitted program that was deemed competitive with Apple's product."
Which is wrong. I cannot see that the parent is a "troll". IT could even be argued the actual Slashdot post is a troll (patent lie, followed by a heated "angle" to start a flamewar)
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And this is to say nothing of the poorly worded second sentence (of a two-sentence summary) which stopped me dead in my tracks:
"Recently it killed a developer..." -- wait, what?!? -- "...submitted program..." oh, whew!
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Granted the presentation of this post is a bit trollish
A "bit"? It's an outright lie.
he's nonetheless right
No he isn't. The summary says Lotus can be "installed" on an iPhone. It's a web app. Nothing is installed. He's wrong.
IBM (Score:2, Insightful)
IBM has more influence with Apple than Joe Random Developer. What a surprise ...
Actually, it's quite the opposite (Score:2, Informative)
That's not what I've read... (Score:5, Informative)
That's not what I read at Ed Brill's site...
What I read was lots of iPhone fanboys screaming that there was no enterprise sync with Domino/Notes, and that this would single-handedly kill the product as Corporate America spent the next month doing nothing but throwing out all phones for iPhones, and all mail systems for Exchange.
(That's why I call them fanboys - their reasoned analysis and reaction identifies them as such to me.)
IBM's response was (and had to be) "Apple didn't approach us about it, and we can't do it on our own as the SDK as shipped doesn't have the appropriate APIs exposed".
Basically, Apple chose to work with Microsoft only when it came to synching with Enterprise systems, and IBM has little control over that.
Now, IBM had _already_ been developing the iNotes Lite system that the NY Times article refers to.
The full iNotes webmail system is pretty good, but it's also a pretty complicated web application which only ran on a couple of supported browsing platforms - all desktop. (For example, until recently, it was actually IE only, with ActiveX components.)
To give people access to the basics no matter what the (modern) browser someone was using, iNotes Lite was developed. (The betas have been shown to work on the Opera browser of a Nintendo Wii, amongst other things.)
So this wasn't even really developed specifically for the iPhone. It's just the first thing that IBM have shipped which can work on an iPhone.
IBM may or may not be working with Apple to get more native integration working on the iPhone. But given how open and public Apple are, we likely wouldn't know until it ships.
But let's be clear - the real blocker is the lack of support from Apple. This isn't specific to IBM - my understanding is that if you wanted to write something that used SyncML to synchronise an iPhone and a Funambol server, you couldn't do it either. The SDK has no documented ways of doing access to the mail/calender/to-do application storage that would allow integration, so unless you can work with Apple directly you're stuck.
What's really interesting is that IBM's marketing is now spinning it as "The iPhone wasn't secure, this is".
That could be IBM giving up on Apple and just going with what they've got. Or it could be IBM toning their public reaction down from "Apple are crap and don't want to work with us" because they are working with Apple now.
Only time will tell.
I feel pretty sorry for IBM on this whole affair. The sheer hype around the iPhone makes this somehow a major story, when in the grand scheme of things - even within the computing world - it's actually rather a non-event...
Re:ActiveSync isn't the whole story (Score:2)
"Reading comprehension problems"?
Well, the best way to get someone understanding your point is of course to insult them. Preferably anonymously, as that way you definitely have the moral high ground.
That aside, yes, ActiveSync is a bonus for Apple when integrating. IBM should have something like ActiveSync - and should have had it some time ago.
However, there's a flip side: Domino is an application platform.
Getting data out of an NSF on a Domino server via HTTP is trivial - IBM could probably create the
IBM not on the AppStore, just a webapp. (Score:5, Informative)
The IBM system is just a web app i.e. a web page with AJAX, viewed via Safari on the iphone. Of course Apple can't ban it, anymore than they can ban you from visiting gmail with an iphone.
The whole AppStore NDA issue is important, and worthy of discussion, but can we at least avoid FUD ridden straw men like this one.
Lotus what? (Score:2, Insightful)
1-2-3?
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1-2-3?
That was my reaction. I thought the article was going to be about a spreadsheet until I followed the link and discovered they were talking about Lotus Notes. Lotus used to be a brand more dominant than Microsoft, now it's just shorthand for a specific piece of PIM software.
I must be getting old.
And your point is??? (Score:2)
.
There certainly seems to be a lot of whining by a vocal few who feel entitled to access to the iPhone. I especially enjoy the whining of people who have their apps disallowed. The reasons for the app rejection were well known, if only they had read the developers' agreement with Apple that they had agreed to before they started developing their apps.
It is a law of nature that (Score:2)
Any justifiable limit on freedom will be adapted to unjustifiable purposes for which it was not originally intended.
There is a legitimate justification for denying developers unrestricted freedom to publish iPhone apps: It keeps consumers safe from malicious applications.
Now that after the policy of denying freedom to publish has been established, for that legitimate purpose, it is adapted to the illegitimate purposes of restraining competition and playing favorites.
Notes isn't an email client (Score:2)
Notes email client isn't even a *good* email client.
Notes is more like a browser for a weird mainframe version of the web, based on copying and synchronizing databases. It's like what you'd have gotten if OSI networking and IBM mainframes had been the basis of the world wide web.
Notes is not a competitor (Score:2, Funny)
As anyone who has been forced to use Notes will tell you.
Lotus is a brand, not a product (Score:5, Insightful)
Lotus is a brand, not a product. As far as I know, the product IBM Lotus is releasing for the iPhone is iNotes, the webmail interface to a Lotus Domino mail server. This isn't a Notes client for the iPhone.
Bad Summary (Score:2)
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Is it too much to ask that people who complain about inaccurate Slashdot summaries actually RTFA so they don't also make the same mistakes as the summarizer?
Clue: Apple didn't need to approve anything because the iPhone Notes client is a web application.
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If you stop buying Apple's claim that iPhone is a smart phone, it will be easier for you to understand.
iPhone is something like moving shell for iTunes and a device embedded OS X. Apps are like music and movies which Apple has control.
Symbian and Windows Mobile devices are computers running a dedicated expandable operating system which vendor has only control over "security" and "safety" of user. Apple tries (in fact accomplishes) to control the whole experience on device. When you buy it, you accept it. If
not the same (Score:2)
It is annoying that apple will just not allow any app that is not malicious, but I haven't seen a case where something useful (other than voip and other things that ATT will not allow) has been banned.
This stuff is almost dupes (Score:2)
Apple still evil. [today.com] FairPlay-encrypted H.264 video at 11.
But it is IBM, not a no name competitor (Score:4, Funny)
Also whoever thinks Lotus notes has a better UI than any mail app, is insane in my opinion. People use Lotus notes because they have to by corporate policy. When they add it to their i-phones, it is not going to replace the use of mailapp by no means, with the exception of 3 masochistic i-phone owners. Whereas the addition of a better functioning maill front end, might force Apple to revisit theor own mail app, which means money out of Steve the conman's pocket. It is intolerable...
Since when is Notes a viable e-mail client? (Score:2, Funny)
Sorry to say this but I don't think Lotus Notes should be considered a viable e-mail client.
I know this sounds like a troll, but I have to use it every day, and honestly trying to get raw e-mail source is a chore that no one should have to ever do.
This decision for Apple however does contradict the position for the so called small developer that had their app banned for competing.
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"Sorry to say this but I don't think Lotus Notes should be considered a viable e-mail client."
Works fine as an email client. Now if all you bought it for was email then yes your correct, you wasted your money.
btw you can get the raw MIME fine from the mail message (java/lotusscript). But your average user would never need to do it, so its not an option by default.
ooh goody... (Score:2, Funny)
That means I can get my nice shiny super slick iPhone running a cluncky UI from the early 90's. Where's the install button?
Just hope they didn't forget the "Internet-Style Forward" option.
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Early 90's? Notes 8.0.1 was released this year and 8.5 should be released near the end of the year.
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It's not just the UI that sucks either. "Reply with attachment" -- why would anyone ever do that? Much less make it highest on the list of reply options and named just "reply" so you have to scroll down to "reply without attachment" to avoid sending an attachment right back to the person who just sent it! Sheer genius, that.
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> It still has a cluncky UI from the early 90's. And a bad one at that.
The UI looks nothing like the 90's version.
> It's not just the UI that sucks either.
> "Reply with attachment" -- why would anyone ever do that?
If they planned to reply to more people then initially were in the list of the original email? Also at least for Version 8.5 (as I just checked) the default is to reply without attachments to save space.
But it is a moot point if you are an 8.5 server because it only ever stores one copy o
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Of course not -- Notes in the 90's had a clunky and ugly 80's-style UI. I mean Notes looks like what most UI's looked like in the 90's.
I have 7.0.3 and there is no default -- clicking "reply" brings down a list of "reply" (which is w/attachment), "reply with hist
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> I mean Notes looks like what
> most UI's looked like in the 90's.
R7 maybe if you were using legacy templates. R8 doesn't.
> I have 7.0.3 and there is no default
As I said I checked R8.5. R8 also has it. It uses the Eclipse default drop down button. But if you were that upset about it you can just recode the button in question to suit YOUR needs. Or you can leave it as is and give yourself an excuse of something to whine about.
>It sure does eat up space on my hard drive in my replicated database
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"Recently [Apple] killed a developer" (Score:3, Funny)
I'm definitely switching to Linux now...
Apple needs a dose of humility... (Score:2)
WTF Slashdot?!?!!? (Score:3)
Seems funny that this "story" is being presented the way that it is. Lotus Notes on an iPhone is a web app through the browser, this has absolutely nothing to do with the App Store, as is implied by the twit writing the story about the article. Apple has nothing to do with allowing or disallowing Lotus Notes to run since it's not an app in the app store.
More fucking hate...
Notes is a whole lot more than a Mail application. (Score:2)
I mean, a WHOLE lot more. I fail to really see the "competitor" thing where a Gmail checker is concerned, frankly.
When I used Notes it was awful, and I hated it, but certainly there are many uses for it besides checking email, and I'm sure there are substantial requests for Notes for the iPhone that will drive iPhone option, as opposed to a Gmail app that does really repeate what's built into Mobile Mail.
Heard in Cupertino (Score:2)
iPhone isn't done until Lotus won't run!
lol (Score:2)
You would still need a VPN tunneler (Score:3, Informative)
Notes is a great platform for corporate apps. But any corp worth their salt is running their remote users through a VPN tunnel of some kind. So you'd need to run that tunnel or VPN dialer or tokenized app on the iPhone as well.
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Two things not even connected (Score:2)
IBM made a web page. Someone else submitted an app to the App Store. How are these things even remotely connected?
Seriously, this is the worst Slashdot "story" since... well, probably yesterday.
Re:And the reason is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe it's because it's not a product being sold in the iPhone App Store, it's just a web application they point Safari at.
Re:And the reason is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Gah. That's what I get for believing a Slashdot summary. :^P
Re:And the reason is... Doesn't it just BURN you (Score:2, Interesting)
UP how people who talk about Lotus products just say "Lotus", and say it as if ONLY Lotus 1-2-3 is Lotus' only product. These same types of people do the SAME thing with Notes. Even though IBM/Lotus has a very diminutive place in the market, there (according to IBM) still are some 10 millions licensed clients of SmartSuite out there. That alone means these submitters and these moderator/admins need to get it in their heads that it would really be helpful to correct summaries.
RESEARCH the SUMMARY content to
Re:And the reason is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hence, it's entirely out of Apple's control, hence this is entirely non-news (just incase anyone was curious what the significance of this is).
Re:And the reason is... (Score:4, Insightful)
A single bug in Safari for iPhone can prevent it from running and all Apple has to say is "oops". As it doesn't even allow other browsers like Opera, you will be in big trouble.
iPhone is not a business device as long as it is run by a fascistic policy. I pity the businesses who buys Apple's claims with 2-3 poster child apps and I _run_ everything on OS X/XServe.
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Let me check my business for non published interfaces: Lotus notes, check; MS office, check; MS Windows, check; Cisco phone system, check; non standards VPN, check;
Seriously it is possible to run stuff on the Iphone, that's enough to make my company cringe. Let alone if it was open (ie friendly) to develop other tools for it.
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There are 5-6 competing third party and official apps exist on Symbian for things you mention. They update and enhance even monthly since there is a huge, healthy competition where you can show the finger to Nokia's own mail client and use a third party client as default.
If I tell you there are 3-4 different titles (recently that famous windows one) to display PDF from free to commercial, you can easily guess the competition.
I am all for competition and freedom unless it dangers my security. Symbian and sad
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And you honestly expect every business to write something as vital and complex as a Notes/GroupWise/Citadel/... client on their own, when they can just buy another hanset (like a BlackBerry) that handles them out of the box? Especially for such a petty reason as "duplicating built-in functionality"?
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<conspiracy-theory>I wounder if "ImNotAtWork" is the developer of the slighted application.</conspiracy-theory>
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No need to invoke conspiracy theories - just use good old Occam [wikipedia.org] ...
WHILE TRUE
INT hatesAllThingsMac:
SEQ
IF
hatesAllThingsMac = 1
to.slashdot = post
Simon.
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So you think IBM which is in size of a country would get same treatment as that poor freeware coder?
Re:And the reason is... (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no grounds for comparing the app that was banned (essentially a Gmail front end as an app) and "allowing" iNotes ultralite that is actually a web page on your Notes/Domino server. This is just bad journalism on behalf of NY Times and seconded here.
Also - apple "allows" gmail web front end on iphone just exactly the same way it "allows" iNotes ultralite.
Re:And the reason is... (Score:4, Funny)
There is no grounds for comparing the app that was banned (essentially a Gmail front end as an app) and "allowing" iNotes ultralite that is actually a web page on your Notes/Domino server. This is just bad journalism on behalf of NY Times and seconded here.
Also - apple "allows" gmail web front end on iphone just exactly the same way it "allows" iNotes ultralite.
Did you hear? I just found out that they are also allowing slashdot and digg! This is great!
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After reading your comment, and verifying that you are 100% right, I had to scroll back up to see who posted this story. I would have bet my testes on kdawson, but the great Rob Malda himself posted this crap?!?
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Re:And the reason is... (Score:5, Interesting)
it could also be that Lotus sucks, so Apple's app has no real competition. (yes, i HAVE to use lotus at work)
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Shouldn't the summary be LOTUS NOTES? IBM does have other software under the LOTUS brand. And while I agree that the UI on NOTES leaves much to be desired the actual NOTES application (it's more an Access/SQL competitor than an Outlook/Exchange one) is incredible in its versatility and adaptability. And while we don't here about NOTES much in the media there are still thousands of companies who swear by it. For them this means the iPhone is now a possible alternative for their corporate environments. I'd sa
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> Lotus sucks
As mentioned you are probaly talking about notes. Lotus covers a wide range of products like connections, quickr, Sametime, Symphony.
I also suspect you are talking about an older version of notes. Currently out in the wild you have version 6 to 8 (pre 6 is no longer supported).
You are probably not on version 8. You can download the 8.5 beta2 for free and it is a very nice client. Written on the Eclipse RCP framework. So you can write plugins for it.
Can download here.
http://www-10.lotus.com/l [lotus.com]
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Like I said you haven't used the latest version. Load time for me on 8.5 is 7 seconds and I haven't seen it become unresponsive yet. Version 6 client, now that is a different story.
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6.5 here. Managing messages is brain-dead; You can't really move your mails in the sent-folder to another location !!!
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yea 6.5 is 5 years old (latest 6 version is 3 years old).
As for the sent folder. It isn't a folder, it is a view. A view is a list of documents on a predefined formula. Folders are for storing documents on no criteria.
So you can drag mails from your sent view to a folder and they will go to the folder but they will always show up in the sent view because it checks all documents you sent in your mail file.
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they will always show up in the sent
if that is still the case in version 8, then it still sucks.
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> if that is still the case in version 8, then it still sucks.
I am not sure how you misunderstanding what a View is vs a Folder is means the product sucks.
Yes you still have views in version 8. I mean if you *want* what you expected that is certainly possible.
Just create a FOLDER called "SENT EMAIL" then save and file your mail into that folder, or you want to get fancy just recode the save button to automatically do it for you. Completely pointless IMHO but yes it can be configured to the way you want i
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It's conceivable that it violates their agreement with AT&T (or one or more of the other carriers). AT&T was probably nervous about the unlimited data plan, and it would make sense for the contract to restrict the types of programs that can access the network.
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and in europe?
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and in europe?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you mean "Why don't they allow it for carriers without such an agreement?" - well, I'd again speculate that maybe it would be too hard to keep track of what users were with what carrier under what contract... at least in the short term. They may also not want to get in a marketing situation where people say things like, "The iPhone is great when you download Skype - but the AT&T iPhone is crippled and does not allow this."
This is all just speculation on my part th
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Apple is blocking every potential "iTunes store" competitor in fact. If you look to all that SDK madness, Flash not being included, no Java (even if Sun codes free) and "no apps can interpret".
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"Flash not being included, no Java (even if Sun codes free) and "no apps can interpret"."
If no apps are allowed to interpret, then it's pretty obvious that the JVM (an interpreter) and Flash (which contains an interpreter) would be excluded.
question: can you guess why Apple might not want interpreters on their phone? Can you also guess why they won't make an exception to this rule for big companies such as Sun and Adobe while continuing to insist that everyone else adhere to it?
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I think they're referring to the notes, which is a groupware platform capable of email, calendering, workflow management etc. Kind of like Exchange and Sharepoint.
Except they're not. It's just a web front end to Notes.
It would be interesting though,because Notes was a highly secure system for doing these things back before the Internet was in widespread use. Even though it ran on primitive platforms, it included features like two factor security, digital signatures, robust encryption for communication a
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I remember the days when Notes ran with no memory protection and on only four megabytes of RAM. It did what every other program did in those days: It crashed a lot and brought the whole system down with it, every time.
Sure. I didn't find it crashy, but there's no question such platforms could crash, say through OLE or something like that. The iPhone of course is much more sophisticated and safe.
The key point is that it didn't expose confidential and proprietary information to any script kiddie with an Internet connection. It was, in fact, good enough for the CIA's email, and any kind of groupware/computer supported cooperative work application involving sensitive proprietary data you can imagine. It might be ugly as
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"does anyone actually choose to use Lotus"
if refering to IBM i reallllllllllllly doubt it
but this Lotus i would be happy to choose to use - if someone else doesn't mind paying for it http://www.lotuscars.com/ [lotuscars.com]
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Blackberry connect access to mail file. This allow limited ability to work with attachments, which is viewed as a "good" thing because the device is not encrypted.
Not sure about BB-Connect, but "real" BlackBerrys support full-device encryption, and it can be enforced via BES*. Combined with the fact that all BB-BES communication's encrypted and the remote self-destruct, they're pretty damn secure.
PS: The latest firmware also allows full attachment downloading.
*BlackBerry Enterprise Server, the conduit between a Exchange/Notes/GroupWise server and the handhelds/Connect.