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Microsoft Giving SMB2 Talks At SambaXP

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the pinch-me dept.

Microsoft 53

Jeremy Allison - Sam writes "I'm not much for writing blog entries, but I thought Slashdot readers might like to know that Microsoft architects and testers are attending SambaXP and have been giving some wonderful talks on how the protocol document testing works, and on the design of SMB2 in order to work well on WAN links. Really interesting technical stuff. Pinch me, I'm back in 1994 and things are really fun again :-)."

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Isn't that game a little old? (2, Funny)

The Faywood Assassin (542375) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116268)

Why is Microsoft giving talks about Super Mario Bros. 2? That game is YEARS old. I don't think anyone even plays it anymore.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

pipatron (966506) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116396)

I don't think anyone even plays it anymore.

I do, and I'm quite sure you will find that a lot of other slashdotters do as well.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

Khaed (544779) | more than 6 years ago | (#23125286)

"Me too!"

I got it on the Wii VC when it came out, and I've played through it. It's strange (and a little scary) how the skill is still there even though I'm not a regular gamer and certainly not a regular Mario-er.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116426)

Thanks to Virtual Console, on the Wii, a whole generation of new gamers will get to enjoy Super Mario Bros. 2. And a lot of people who played SMB2 ages ago, are still enjoying it.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

lorenzo.boccaccia (1263310) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117672)

also wan compatibility is a welcome addition! couldn't wait to play Super Mario bros mmorpg!

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 6 years ago | (#23120666)

Thanks to Emulation, available for the NES for at least 10 years, a lot of people who played it can still enjoy it - on their phones, xboxes, PC's, PDA's, and practically anything else.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (3, Interesting)

Lord Pillage (815466) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116552)

Don't you mean Doki Doki Panic [wikipedia.org] ?

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

Kamineko (851857) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117008)

Not enough games have SUBSPACE in, really. I miss those potions.

Storm Jameson disagrees:

Life is too short to stuff a mushroom. -- Storm Jameson

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23118114)

Meh. Those potions only allowed 3 dimensional travel. Not very exciting if you ask me.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23119964)

Not enough games have SUBSPACE in, really.
Subspace is confirmed for Brawl.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

seandiggity (992657) | more than 6 years ago | (#23120110)

Mythbuntu + emulators + controllers = awesome

My brother played SMB2 for like 3 hours the last time he visited, and I beat SMB3 for shits and giggles a few days ago.

Re:Isn't that game a little old? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23121462)

Mythbuntu + emulators + controllers = awesome
I sure wish there were decent shared-screen multiplayer games that are officially ported to Linux, so that I don't have to use ROMs of dubious legality.

SMB2 talk (4, Interesting)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116302)

So, for those of who can't attend, will there be some sort of webcast or what? In particular, I'm interested in what 'SMB2' will do that (RFC-compliant) NFSv4 won't.

Re:SMB2 talk (2, Funny)

erroneus (253617) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116442)

Quick answer: Work with Windows.

Are there any good NFS clients for Windows? Any that are free? If there were, I'd seriously consider using NFS for much of my file serving needs.

Re:SMB2 talk (3, Interesting)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116486)

Yes, MS gets to look like they are playing nice nice with F/OSS by supporting SMB, but in the long run it means they don't have to develop anything to keep working along side *nix systems in the data center.

This is a win/win for MS, if I were them I'd do it too.

Note: if NFS would support Windows networking, I'd use it too. Till then, I'm happy with SMB and use it at home and work.

Re:SMB2 talk (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23116506)

Are there any good NFS clients for Windows? Any that are free?
Yes, there's Microsoft's own [msdn.com] from their Services for Unix download or the Vista/2008 Subsystem for Unix applications.

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116868)

Sure, there are NFS implementations for Windows like the one you mention, but I wouldn't say there are any really good ones. All have them have some fairly serious flaws that make them impractical for any sort of serious use.

Re:SMB2 talk (4, Informative)

EvilRyry (1025309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117372)

That only supports the crusty, insecure NFSv3. NFSv4 was released in 2000 (aka 8 freakin years ago) and has far better security and performance than v3. Microsoft has announced that they will not be updating SFU and will discontinue downloads in 2009.

So the correct answer would be "no", Microsoft hates NFS because they don't control it.

Re:SMB2 talk (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23118844)


Microsoft has announced that they will not be updating SFU and will discontinue downloads in 2009.




Microsoft does some smarmy things, but in this case this is primarily just a name change. SFU -> SUA (and it comes standard on Vista/Server 2008)

download link for SUA [microsoft.com]



Being discontinued/desupported somewhat because the OSs that SFU runs on are being desupported. Surprising they want everyone to upgrade to Vista so they can make more money. LOL.



Re:SMB2 talk (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23119978)

Why doesn't SUA work on Windows Vista Home Premium?

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

abbe (1142703) | more than 6 years ago | (#23133446)


Why doesn't SUA work on Windows Vista Home Premium?

Restricting things, which're not naturally restricted sucks. A kind of DRM :( .

Re:SMB2 talk (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23119110)

Almost. The separate download package that is Services for Unix is being discontinued. It is instead being shipped as a part of the OS and is available in both Vista and Windows Server 2008 without an additional download. As a result there is no need to ship a separate downloadable version going forward.

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

Mattsson (105422) | more than 6 years ago | (#23122176)

As a result there is no need to ship a separate downloadable version going forward.
Except in order to support the millions of people who still will be using their previous versions of their OS in 2009.

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#23122926)

Welcome to the world of forced upgrades. If you need it, you will have to upgrade. Gotta love closed source software for all the finer points of BS.

Re:SMB2 talk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23116758)

Are there any good NFS clients for Windows? Any that are free?

Sure, NESticle, FCEUltra, and so many others...

Need For Speed? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23121474)

What do NESticle, FCE Ultra, and other NES emulators have to do with Need For Speed?

Re:SMB2 talk (2, Interesting)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117394)

Quick answer: Work with Windows.


Actually NFSv4 supports Windows file-sharing semantics rather better than previous versions of NFS.

I currently see Samba as more of a complement to NFSv4 to support Windows clients easily, but, OTOH, it is actually becoming increasingly possible to use only Samba for file sharing in a heterogenous UNIX/Windows environment, rather than a mix of Samba and NFS. If SMB2 ends up being better than NFSv4 in security and reliability aspects, then it may replace NFS as the defacto filesharing for *nix systems in the future.

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117422)

(And, for those of you without IT backgrounds, it's usually better to have one mechanism for any given system than it is to try and support multiple, partially incompatible mechanisms.)

Re:SMB2 talk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23117522)

In my experience, NFS just plain blows. Maybe it's just me, but it's really bad with situations such as people coming in and out of networks (laptops). Not to mention that the caching (maybe just a client issue?) is pathetic, making high-lag situations entirely unusable.

I'll gladly take SMB or (preferably) AFS over NFS any day of the week.

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23120404)

In my experience, NFS just plain blows. Maybe it's just me, but it's really bad with situations such as people coming in and out of networks (laptops). Not to mention that the caching (maybe just a client issue?) is pathetic, making high-lag situations entirely unusable.
Most of your complaints go away with RFC-compliant NFSv4. Essentially, all transactions are Kerberized. It uses GSSAPI for authentication of each transaction and allows for file sharing semantics that are extremely similar to what you get with SMB. Meaning that ACLs are supported and ID spoofing is no longer a problem.

The main problems with NFSv4 I've seen so far is that there seems to be very buggy implementations in Linux kernels prior to 2.6.23. And since NFSv4 is still very young and has not seen widespread deployment in enterprise environments, I'm guessing that there are a lot more bugs yet to be overturned. OTOH, you could probably say the same for SMB2.

Caching is entirely a client issue. While the NFS client in the Linux kernel sucks, it certainly sucks less than the one in Solaris 8 or 9 and a lot less than the one in HP-UX 10.x and 11.x.

The usermode Linux NFS client seems to have better caching, but performance still sucks.

Not that SMB1 is a whole lot better in the performance department, though. That's another reason why I'm interested in SMB2.

Re:SMB2 talk (5, Informative)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116594)

The slides will be posted at the conference website, but they're not up yet. Not sure yet about audio/video.

Jeremy.

Re:SMB2 talk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23117100)

Audio will be around, we've recorded the talks.

Volker

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23120492)

w00t! Could you guys please post a link to the audio Volker mention on the Samba mirrors in news section for me when its ready? Pretty please?

Re:SMB2 talk (1)

chmod a+x mojo (965286) | more than 6 years ago | (#23124990)

Just gonna take a stab in the dark here but... have a free, easy to use windows client?

Last time I tried to use a NFS client on windows was not a painless experience. That was 1-2 years ago though , so maybe something better has come along? If anyone has any suggestions for a client to try I would be happy hear them, I still have a few windows machines at home that if I could share through NFS I could nuke samba from my file server ( I only need clients for pulling data, directory sharing is not needed).

Twofo Goatse (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23116368)

Eat my goatse'd penis! [twofo.co.uk] [goatse.ch]

You nerds love it.

nostalgic (0, Offtopic)

OrochimaruVoldemort (1248060) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116406)

but i would prefer SMB3. it was the true lord of the SMB series.

Re:nostalgic (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116456)

Why is #2 always a completely weird game for nintendo, where they completely go off track from what they did in the rest of the series. Think about SMB2, Legend of Zelda 2, and well, I'm sure there was others.

Re:nostalgic (1, Offtopic)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117374)

Thats because the US SMB2 was not a "Mario" game. It was a rebadged game called "Doki Doki Panic".

The FDS game images exist on the net, as japanese reading comprehension needed is nil. And as expected, Doki is tougher.

Here's a link of differences along with the rom link here [progressiveboink.com] . No US SMB2 rom to compare. That'd be illegal :P

Re:nostalgic (1)

wolrahnaes (632574) | more than 6 years ago | (#23117604)

It's just a US thing. What we saw as SMB2 here was Doki Doki Panic in Japan. They just stuck characters from the SMB world in to another game and called it a day. If you've played "The Lost Levels" on Super Mario All-Stars, that's the real SMB2.

Re:nostalgic (1)

Krakhan (784021) | more than 6 years ago | (#23119534)

Even the real SMB2 feels more like a rom hack right from Nintendo of the original Super Mario Bros.

Re:nostalgic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23124518)

Honestly though SMB2j is a pretty weird game in its own right. It toys with the player by turning his expectations as to level design upside down.

1994? (0, Redundant)

Nimey (114278) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116454)

Dude, SMB2 came out 1988! It was the cover game for the first issue of Nintendo Power!

More seriously, I hope they'll be made to release protocol information on a free license.

Re:1994? (4, Interesting)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116646)

They've already released the protocol info publicly. The catch isn't the protocol documentation, it's the patent license they claim is needed to implement the protocol It's moving the control point from trade secrets to patents. But I'm still really happy with the release of the info to the public. The docs aren't perfect yet, but they're going to be improved. It's a very positive step.

Jeremy.

Re:1994? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23122600)

So, does this mean I have to start sending you pizzas again?

ENOUGH WITH THE SUPER MARIO BROS JOKES (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23116612)

There's three threads on that already. You can reply to those if you must. We don't need any more.

Re:ENOUGH WITH THE SUPER MARIO BROS JOKES (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23117364)

Thank you. Plus it's obvious the article is referring to the long awaited, open source, Super Methane Bros 2.

Super mario bros ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23118258)

I never played that game, heard it was really swell. Wasn't the purpose of the game that you had to run your puppet from one end of the screen to the other, while at the same time jumping up and down to score points.

Wow, those were the times...

Oh, you were annoyed by it ? I am sorry to hear that.

Re:Super mario bros ? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23121512)

Wasn't the purpose of [Super Mario Bros.] that you had to run your puppet from one end of the screen to the other
No, that was Pinocchio (Super NES/Genesis/Game Boy, Disney Interactive, 1996).

Well, we could bring out the other jokes, then. (1)

speedbiker (1234566) | more than 6 years ago | (#23122106)

Especially as there are way enough other meanings for SMB [acronymfinder.com] . "Self Mating Beam", for example, should be good for some more MS-related jokes...

I guess you have to be involved for it to be fun (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116754)

From the outside, it looks like a company that hates you was dragged kicking and screaming to come and help?talk to you

Re:I guess you have to be involved for it to be fu (2, Interesting)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116964)

Yeah, that's the point really. It's *fun* :-). And also everyone is being very nice :-).

Jeremy.

SMB2... (0, Offtopic)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 6 years ago | (#23116762)

I came here thinking I could post an easy Mario Bros joke, but it seems a gazillion Sexdecillion other /. readers thought the same, so i'll just go with a Dassault Super Mystere B2 [wikipedia.org] instead.

SMB protocol discussion (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23118082)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I
had to take a piss. As I entered the john a big beautiful all-American
football hero type, about twenty-five, came out of one of the booths.
I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he
washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and
married - and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with
him.

                As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated,
hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still
warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the
shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left
behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It
apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat,
stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd
- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist.

                I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and
wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd
always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little
clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass
and not an end in itself. Of course I'd had jerk-off fantasies of
devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't), but I had never done
it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound
turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy
and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's
handsomest young stud.

                Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both
hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled
like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the
consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit
without the benefit of a digestive tract?

                I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it
smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does.

                I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into
my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock,
beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and
bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet
flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had
chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed
I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I
soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd
passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily,
sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My
only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down
with his piss.

                I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the
cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more
delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with
the rich bitterness of shit.

                Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But
then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There
was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished
them out, rolled them into my handkerchief, and stashed them in my
briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the
shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever
unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an
unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

                I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using
them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my
mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit
trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six
orgasms in the process.

                I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out
of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could,
and at least once did, bring to a grateful shiteater.
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