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EMI Says Online File Storage Is Illegal

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the you-will-play-only-what-you-rent-from-us dept.

Music 405

WiglyWorm writes "MP3tunes CEO Michael Robertson sent out an email to all users of the online music backup and place-shifting service MP3tunes.com, asking them to help publicize EMI's ridiculous and ignorant lawsuit against the company. EMI believes that consumers aren't allowed to store their music files online, and that MP3tunes is violating copyright law by providing a backup service."

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Well, piracy hurts real people. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169104)

As a record store owner, My business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of music in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the music industry, from artists, to record companies to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike CDs, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.

A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.

"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."

"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."

I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.

"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.

"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.

So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the music industry, then the music industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable record store will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the CDS to begin with, then they won't be able to copy them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.

I have just written a letter to the RIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?

This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"

I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.

"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."

When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"

I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."

When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.

Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (5, Insightful)

thsths (31372) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169120)

> As a record store owner, My business faces ruin.

Tough. The pervasive use of automotive vehicles has put a lot of blacksmiths out of business. But would the world really be a better place if we had stuck to using horse drawn carts?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (5, Insightful)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169192)

An oldie, but a goodie.

>>>"People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago."

Well then, supplement your CDs with sales of MP3 singles. The singles market is going through the roof, and if you provided your customers with a place to buy and download MP3 singles, you'd probably be a popular stop for the teen and 20-something market.

ADJUST to the needs of your customers.
If they are demanding singles, don't hand them CDs.
Give them singles; give them what they want.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169196)

Blacksmiths, buggy whip makers and all the other usual old time jobs that Slashdotters trot out each and every time they wish to denigrate a business case did not face competition from their own product being hawked with no requirement for any return on investment.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169252)

And?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169384)

And you and just about everyone you know and care about will lose about 95% of their access to new music.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Funny)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169492)

Since 95% of new music is crap, that probably isn't such a bad thing as you make it out to be.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Insightful)

richlv (778496) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169534)

actually, lately i am seeing more and more new music created. authors place it for free download, because, well, they want people to hear it. as a result, people tend to go more to gigs and so on.
i'm not interested in those sweet boybands that some old producer with weird sexual preferences creates one after another, as those can't adapt to such an environment. so, if we get less "music" like that and more of 'underground' one... hey, go for it :)

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Insightful)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169694)

i'm not interested in those sweet boybands that some old producer with weird sexual preferences creates one after another, as those can't adapt to such an environment. so, if we get less "music" like that and more of 'underground' one... hey, go for it :)
Good for you, but some people are interested in music (and other art forms) that are created under copyright. Caving to piracy won't increase any of this "underground" music, but it will cut down everything else, and a lot of people would miss the "everything else".

Anyway, it's completely disingenuous and completely false that you know all of the commercial music out there, and that out of all of it, non-commercial music would be better than all of it. Basically, it suggests an irrational prejudice against commercial music. I actually don't mean any offence about this; god knows I have a number of irrational prejudices of my own, but bear it in mind: not all commercial music fits that mould.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Insightful)

richlv (778496) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169794)

well, 'commercial music' should be defined precisely then ;)
if music is created with intent to sell it but fails - is that commercial music ?
if music is created without commercial intent but becomes widely successful commercially - is that commercial music ?

i don't think current 'commercial music' would completely die off - just as with other niches, new business models can and will work. the market will only reshape, and then become more robust (there have been several showcases lately - nin, radiohead etc).

also, one side is the motivation to create, which can adapt, and then there's the insane length of copyright. i think that current piracy is only fueled by the copyright length, as re-selling of the same product for decades only damages its perception (in this case - perceived value of the music) in the eyes of the general public.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169536)

Why on earth would that happen?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Insightful)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169338)

Seems troll-feeders are still thriving. Seriously, have you never seen this one before?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Insightful)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169350)

The world changes. The market's demand shifts. And you, and people like you, continue to blame the customer base for wanting the product how they want it.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169456)

The customer base can want whatever they wish, but they are not entitled to anything - the owner is offering a certain set of terms, and some people are (in some cases rightly so) refusing those terms but taking anyway. That is where the buggy whip maker comparison breaks down, because they did not have to compete against their own product which has a zero cost factor. There is no way anyone could compete with that.

In the end, it call comes down to a sense of entitlement - if you don't like the terms of the product, go elsewhere . That removes any doubt.

And if you think piracy would simply disappear if the record company bowed down to DRM-less products in a lossless format, you are incredibly naive. The only point at which piracy would go away is when the original product is 100% free of any cost to the consumer.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Insightful)

Teran9 (1163643) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169686)

They are going elsewhere.

The only point at which piracy would go away is when the original product is 100% free of any cost to the consumer.

And your point is what?

The record store owner and the content owners also seem to have a sense of entitlement. There are those that disagree with that notion, too.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169516)

Not quite sure what you mean by "hawked" (please feel free to elaborate), but the product a blacksmith was involved in was a method of transit (making the components of it) designed to make moving between two distant points more easily. Cars do the same thing, without the blacksmith - thus while its not their own product that they don't get a return on directly, they've been overtaken in the market and they'll stand to lose alot or all of their return on their own product anyway, since nobody's buying it.

It's not a perfect analogy - there really is no such thing as a perfect analogy - but you can quite easily say a similar situation is occuring in the music business. If we sidestep piracy/theft/whateveryouwanttocallit for a moment, there once was an old music sales model revolving around a storage device called the record. The record was mostly overtaken by the compact disc for music storage and delivery because it has various advantages which make a record "obselete" to the general consumer, though not totally, and it can still thrive in a more specialist market (just like the horse and cart, funnily enough). Now the CD is being overtaken by downloads, because its a more appealing and easier point of sale for the consumer, or it's becoming as such at least.

CDs aren't surviving so much though because they're the same data as that which is being sold via downloads. Specialists (or, most specialists) will want records for (supposedly? I don't know, I've never looked into it) better quality sound and so on, which CDs don't provide. The only thing a CD does which a downloaded MP3 doesn't do is provide a more "real-world" method of storing the data out of the box, but with CD writers people can backup their own music if they want to.

There really seems to be a less caring attitude about the ability to listen to recorded music too. If someone is interested enough, listening to that music live is more appealing usually - the same applies for movies. Of course, if someone can't they'll usually be quite happy to buy it anyway if they like it enough, but right now they don't need to go to a record store to buy it...they can just pay for a download. It's cheaper, quicker, less travelling, less physical world clutter and easier portability between devices.

From this point, to looking at piracy, we could go anywhere. There are too many factors to really determine what the cause and effect of piracy is (at least as far as I'm concerned - I'm sure many people will happily claim to know more about the situation, even if they don't have a clue), but that last point is something record companies (look, I'm going to call them publishers from now on, because that's what they are) keep wanting to take away from people, not really caring about the objections or the unintended effects of their actions. Will taking away device restrictions and letting people use their paid-for music how they want (even if its not in a way you like) really have an effect? Allow me to bounce out of the music discussion for a moment and to a little anecdote from the games industry...: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1311 [rockpapershotgun.com]

There's text in that link, and some people wont bother, so here's the abbreviated version:

To paraphrase brutally, Piracy doesn't matter. Only sales matter. ...
That's the problem with piracy. What gets made targets people who buy it, not the people who would never buy it in the first place. When someone complains about "fat borders" on some popular WindowBlinds skin my question is always "Would you buy WindowBlinds even if there was a perfect skin for you?" and the answer is inevitably "Probably not". That's how it works in every market -- the people who buy stuff call the shots. Only in the PC game market are the people who pirate stuff still getting the overwhelming percentage of development resources and editorial support.


Or, in shorter for the people that seem to have trouble reading quotes: if someone's not going to buy it, they're not going to buy it regardless of how much money you spend making sure they have no choice other than to buy it, no matter how much you spend trying to stop them using it on other machines, and so on. Whether or not that can be translated to the music industry is hard to be sure of, but one point stands - at the end of the RPS article, Battlefield Heroes is referenced as an example of a sales model that a) might work and b) might counteract piracy without criminalising innocent people. There are already other existing models in the games industry that work and counteract piracy fairly too, but apparently the music industry hasn't learned of this yet. This little secret that everybody else already seems to know. That they need to change to survive, and realise where their value is so they can make money out of it, not try and exploit value out of things nobody sees to be valuble for whatever reason, and not to try and get people who don't give a damn about buying music to try and buy music. Of course, there's nothing saying that people who don't like buying music wont, after having heard the music and liking it, go and see a band live or something. What music and cinema have that the games industry (mostly) doesn't have is an experience that can't be reproduced via piracy.

Change or die, apparently.

Of course, problems can occur when people abuse a situation. This guy pretty much said it already http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=531448&cid=23169176 [slashdot.org]

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (5, Funny)

f1r3f0g (879606) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169650)

The buggy whip makers came out alright - they changed markets to the S&M/B&D crowds.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Insightful)

Auckerman (223266) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169314)

Your analogy doesn't hold.

While I don't care if record stores go out of business, since it's clear that online downloads has won as the successor to the CD format, I do care about copyright. Online distribution without compensating the copyright holder will cause the arts to suffer. Yes, artists are getting ripped off by music companies, that will change as online downloads dramatically decreases the cost of distributing the work to the people. There are already companies that will list you on iTunes while leaving the copyright in your possession. The artists still get compensated in a way they find meaningful. Just because you don't like how they are treated doesn't mean you have the right to give their works away for free, thus removing all revenue they would generate for the work. An artist who finds a way to give their works away for free while still earning money on those works is making the choice, which is well within their rights, but it is NOT within your rights to make that choice for them.

Copyright serves a purpose, yes it's misused, yes the way works is sent out to the masses can be improved, but artists need to know they can earn a living worthy enough to create works. Yes, they can earn a great deal of money playing live shows, but do you honestly realize how hard it is on a person to tour? People have left bands that were earning them millions of dollars because they missed their wives! These are human beings, not some commodity to be used at your discretion.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169598)

Yes, they can earn a great deal of money playing live shows, but do you honestly realize how hard it is on a person to tour? People have left bands that were earning them millions of dollars because they missed their wives! These are human beings, not some commodity to be used at your discretion.
Then Fishermen going out to sea for many days or weeks, risking their lives ARE commodity? Are we allowed to use them at our discretion? Maybe they miss their family too, but with no million dollar bank accounts, they have to keep on working.

And what about people working very hard at off-shore oil platforms? Can we use them? I'm pretty sure that their wage is somewhat lower than the average artist on tour, but they have to do it anyway.

Not to mention the military, far from home months on end. And don't get me started on the average wage here.

So poor artists with their luxury hotel rooms, first-class plane seats, 50 foot long limousines and multi million dollar contracts can't stand tour pressure? Too bad. Makes me cry.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169364)

Cars were a complete alternative, P2P is not. It lacks an adequate production arm.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Interesting)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169606)

It lacks an adequate production arm.

Live music and self publishers.

The cost of releasing a track has dropped to almost nothing. With an $800 Boss solid-state recording deck and a laptop, we have tools that are an order of magnitude better than whole recording studios from a decade ago.

If the majors had reduced their prices to match the drop in costs, they might have kept a place in the market. As it is, their greed and stupidity means they deserve to die.

Oddly enough though, our band still produces CDs for local fans to buy at gigs, and they sell well despite the tracks being freely available on the web. A little goodwill goes a long way, I suspect.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Insightful)

gazbo (517111) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169704)

Does that $800 studio in a box include the U87, good preamps and eqs, skilled recording, mixing and mastering engineers?

Yes, making music yourself is easier than ever, and the results better quality than ever. But claiming your cheap digital multitrack produces better results than studio productions of a decade ago is frankly foolish.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Insightful)

Slashidiot (1179447) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169784)

Obviously, it doesn't. But the point is that you CAN produce a CD for 800$. Which could not be done 10 years ago. The skill still has to be there, just as 10 years ago. But the basic tools can be purchased for much less, giving you way more tools than what was available a while ago. A good sound engineer will give you more quality with a cheap Rode mic, a cheap m-audio interface Garageband and a few plugins, than with a 4 track tape recorder, a Neumann U87 and an actual plate reverb. And it will cost you 1/1000 of the original price.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

damaki (997243) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169804)

Yeah, skilled sound engineers who must in the end overcompress the music so that it's loud enough and who rectify bad singers' tones. So let's forget about the "good sounding" and "fidelity" parts.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Insightful)

Inda (580031) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169368)

Do. Not. Feed. The. Trolls.

C'mon, you're aren't new here. You must have seen this one copy 'n pasted on every MP3 story?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169406)

But would the world really be a better place if we had stuck to using horse drawn carts?
Well, if we used horses we wouldn't be dependent on sandniggers for our fuel...

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Interesting)

Digestromath (1190577) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169452)

Automobiles and the demise of horse aided travel didn't really put blacksmiths out of business. What it really did was differentiate between farriers and blacksmiths. A blacksmith is someone who works metal with a forge. A farrier is someone skilled in hoof care, which includes shoeing and potentially fabricating shoes.

Now at one point, it was well accepted that your rural blacksmith would be well versed as a farrier (made sense from a bussiness standpoint). However as horses became more rare, fewer blacksmiths picked up the trade. The two trades are more or less completely divergent now.

Now to say that both farriers and blacksmiths are out of bussiness is nonsense as well. There are many artisan blacksmiths out there creating wrought iron decorative pieces, collectable swords etc. Although many shoe thier own horses, there are still many professional farriers out there (servicing some rodeos, polo teams, riding stables etc).

If you insist on using the analogy though, lets talk about the pervasive use of the automobile putting wainwrights and used buggy salesmen out of bussiness.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

Kickasso (210195) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169508)

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

19061969 (939279) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169580)

I thought it was familiar. And there was me thinking dupes belonged only in the headlines... ;-)

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169632)

You must be new here.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Insightful)

Professor_UNIX (867045) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169552)

But would the world really be a better place if we had stuck to using horse drawn carts?
Hmm, I guess that depends. What's the fuel economy on a horse-drawn cart these days? I guess we'd have to ask the Amish. Plus the emissions are much more manageable and it can be used as fertilizer to grow more fuel for the horse. I think the world probably would be better if we had stuck with horse-drawn carts, from a purely environmental perspective.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169802)

What's the fuel economy on a horse-drawn cart these days

They don't use a lot of imported oil, but a horse eats like, well, a horse!

Even a Winnebago does more miles to the dollar, if you don't happen to own a farm, but then, if you owned an oil well...

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169614)

I know the OP's a troll, but

My business faces ruin.
Tough.
I hate capitalism. Its winners shout loud its qualities, while its losers have no means to be heard. Or to healthcare. Or to a comfortable, safe living environment.

Most people posting on Slashdot are the winners of capitalism. They were born fairly healthy and smart (if you think merely "hard work" got you there, you need to get out more, to meet up with those of lower IQ or physical ability through no fault of their own). Fortunately, Bush is building something fairly feudal which will destroy this greedy, good-for-nothing middle class - better two hundred million equal peasants than an evenly divided nation of slaves and their masters.

So come on, technologists, carry on developing the very systems that are already being used to oppress you and will one day be powerful enough to take away your freedom entirely. After all, you were only doing it as an employee, right? You were only following orders, right? You have to put food on the table for the family you're obliged to create, after all.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169124)

Can't you trolls at least be a little original? That astroturf has been posted here so many times, it's a joke in itself.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Insightful)

ricebowl (999467) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169138)

Can't you trolls at least be a little original? That astroturf has been posted here so many times, it's a joke in itself.(Emphasis mine)

Yes; exactly.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169190)

I haven't seen it before, and after I realised it wasn't serious, it is kinda funny. I was horrified when I thought it was someone who actually believed what he was saying :s I'm a christian and I find most 'christian rock' extremely bland.. kind of like Nickelback, but with less panties.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (5, Funny)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169434)

Do noooot feed the troooooollls! Sheesh, this troll is older than me. There: I did my best =P
---
As a table dance club owner, My business faces ruin. table dance sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as table dances as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My club has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the club about 12 years ago. It was one of those clubs that play obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My table dance club specialized in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't play sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked table dance club, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase table dances without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer table dances. Why is no one buying table dances? Are people not interested in lust? Do people prefer to watch TV, see porn films, read erotic books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three geek world wide is watches porn. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of porn in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the table dance industry, from dancers, to Djs to table dance club owners my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike porn, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.

A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.

"Dude, I'm going to put this table dance in the Internet right away."

"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."

I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the table dance industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase (they ticket for the table dance), I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.

"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.

"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my club - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.

So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the table dance club industry, then the table dance club industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable table dance club will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the table dance tickets to begin with, then they won't be able to watch them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.

I have just written a letter to the TIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?

This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"

I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.

"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."

When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"

I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."

When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.

Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my table dance club less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by table dancers such as Demmi Moore that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

----

DUPE! (4, Funny)

bigmouth_strikes (224629) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169144)

Man, you can't even trust the trolls on /. anymoe... this post is a dupe!

by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28 2005, @11:49AM [slashdot.org]

Re:DUPE! (1)

Criliric (879949) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169186)

and even then it was a dupe

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169146)

Wait, the kid somehow spelled it "leet" when he was speaking to his friend?

Hysterical (1)

CranberryKing (776846) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169154)

Oh where are my mod points when I need them?! Well done. You really sound like a christian rock record store owner dick. 'It's nothing to do with the economy'. Brilliant!

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169170)

But you're not a real person! Now get back under the bridge like a good troll, hmm?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169214)

>>>"People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. The police have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?"

TIPs didn't stop videogame piracy in the 80s or 90s, and it won't stop music piracy now.

As for the police, I assume you were joking when you said they fought the War on Drugs with skill. They LOST the war on drugs, same way they lost they War on Alcohol in the 20s and 30s. The politicians/police are just too dumb to realize it.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

pla (258480) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169238)

and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

Well, that proves you as a troll right there...

Even Christian rock bands avoid the label like the plague... Mention Jesus in a pop song, and you sound religious; Get labelled "Christian Rock" and you may as well turn into a Barry Manilow cover band for all the respect you'll get.



Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect.

No. First of all, if you really target the niche you claim, kids do not shop at your store without their grannies. Second, not even granny would consider it "lete" to upload a "family friendly" album anywhere. And third, if you carry anything (non-local, of course) that I can't already get online, I'll give you a sale and buy it from you just for the novelty.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Insightful)

Geak (790376) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169242)

They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?
Um... are you sure you're on the right website? This is slashdot. I can't even count the number of times it's been said here that a war on a concept (eg. war on drugs, war on communism, war on terror, war on blah blah blah) has been ineffective. Drugs are still very much a problem, communist countries still exist, and Osama Bin Laden is still at large. Check your facts before posting such drivel.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169320)

what is the name of your store? I want to blacklist companies that try to criminalize sharing.

Re:Jumping to conclusions again. (4, Insightful)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169346)

As a record store owner, My business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

The product has become dangerous. We used to buy 12 inch LP's, cut tapes for the car, play them with slides, etc. They have gotten the word out that most of these activities are now a legal liability that can cost you thousands of dollars. My peak piracy days 30 years ago was my peak purchasing days. The average then for the population was 2 LP purchases / year per capita in the USA.

My kids have grown up with iPods and the like. The music prices haven't changed. They have 30 Gig players and you still charge dribble prices for content. If the petrolium industry sold gas like you sell music, we would be arriving with empty 16 gallon tanks and finding the stuff in pretty packages that will fit nicely in your shirt pocket. Alternative fuel is the order of the day just like alternative distribution. The players have changed. The product value has changed. Back catalog is sold at full retail. There is no exchange or upgrade path for worn media. Care to exchange some 8 track tapes and Compact Cassette tapes? I have the full license to play them, but you don't back the license to ensure I am able to enjoy it.

Why is no one buying CDs?

That one is simple. I'm supprised you had to ask, but in no paticular order...
1 The loudness war
2 High prices for little content
3 Competition for the entertainment dollar (pay TV, satelite radio, cell phones, computer games, MP3 players, and others that had no or little presense 30 years ago.)
4 Retaliation for the industry's nukes on student's finances.
5 DRM on CD's makes them incompatible and dangerous to use. I don't keep a list of safe to play CD's. The lack of the Philip's Compact Disc logo on the good bad and ugly makes shopping by the cover very difficult.
6 Free music online (not piracy)
7 Piracy (fueled by all of the above)
8 Restrictions on use... Can't leagaly do the Carson Williams light show legaly unless you buy one of the approved for use licenses from Lights-o-Rama or play it in public at a reception, etc. No weekend DJ'ing for me.
8 ?? did I miss anything?

In summary, the product is compressed, possibly won't be transferrable to the kids iPod, can't be used with a Power Point Slideshow for a wedding, can't be used for the reception dance, super expensive to keep a current library for the above, and is a very expensive legal liability if your kids post it. The product is expensive, may be defective with no recourse, and a legal liability.

"When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?""

I used to work in the VCR and TV repair business. When 20 inch color TV's were $400 and VHS VCR's were $600, people would pay the rate for a couple hours it took to repair them. Now purchase prices are near what a repair used to cost. I kept my house, but found a new line of work. Your field isn't the only one hit by distribution channels providing a cheaper product.

As long as your supplier is stuck on dribbling out product and sitting on back catalog and fighting hard to keep the ASP high, the demand in going to be small. Get used to it.

If your supplier was smart, they could sell compilation CD's of high quality MP3's of back catalog. They would be iPod, Zen, Zune ready, high quality and affordable. I would pay good money for high quality collections of Chicago, Pink Floyd, Styx, Led Zepplin, etc. Toss the restrictions on use and sell collections of 50's, 60's, & 70's dance music with permission to DJ the stuff may sell a bunch more. Many DJ consoles now play MP3's instead of CD's. Make loading the MP3's on the device hard drive legal instead of a legal liability.

See any trend here. Piracy is only a small portion of the problem. Elimination of piracy isn't the cure all. Get used to it.

Sorry to hear you are carying a product with so little potential. Has anyone looked into providing value instead of restrictions?

OK, I'll end my rant now, but remember, you asked.

Re:Jumping to conclusions again. (3, Informative)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169594)

1 The loudness war
2 High prices for little content
3 Competition for the entertainment dollar (pay TV, satelite radio, cell phones, computer games, MP3 players, and others that had no or little presense 30 years ago.)
4 Retaliation for the industry's nukes on student's finances.
5 DRM on CD's makes them incompatible and dangerous to use. I don't keep a list of safe to play CD's. The lack of the Philip's Compact Disc logo on the good bad and ugly makes shopping by the cover very difficult.
6 Free music online (not piracy)
7 Piracy (fueled by all of the above)
8 Restrictions on use... Can't leagaly do the Carson Williams light show legaly unless you buy one of the approved for use licenses from Lights-o-Rama or play it in public at a reception, etc. No weekend DJ'ing for me.
8 ?? did I miss anything?
Nice list, but I think you misunderstand what people want. They don't hear or don't care about DRM, about the RIAA, or about the loudness war. The internet introduced an immediacy to entertainment that traditional physical music distribution simply can't tap into. That's the main cause of piracy today. They want their entertainment now, and the lack of effective enforcement allowed it. Of course, it doesn't make much difference to these people whether it's good illegal content or good legal content. It ends up the same for them. Of course price plays a large part as well.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169404)

I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate.
Yes, but still, that is just statistics. Would that 1/3 be bought if there was no piracy. Suppose hypothetically that I have $50 to spend on CDs per month, and that now in the internet age I also download $25 worth of music in addition to spending $50 on CDs. In that case nothing is lost.

If piracy is bad for music, it's probably only bad for top-40 artists. For the rest of the musicians it is exposure that helps them escaping from the obscurity that big media gives them by not broadcasting their material. Fortunately, sites like cdbaby.com allow us to preview excellent non-top-40 records, and to get them for excellent prices. Additionally, they give a large share (IIRC 90%) to the artists. So, I prefer buying there than records that went through the whole chain, and give only little back to the artist.

Additionally, it is probably iTunes at al that are killing your business. I can feel your pain, but digitally, it's much easier to browse and "preview" CDs. They are usually cheaper, and you get them instantly.

This may be all bad for the labels, middlemen, and record stores. But it is good for the artists and consumers. Time has changed and will change the market, and as an entrepeneur you have to stay current.

BTW. the music stores over here that primarily in more obscure music are doing well compared to all mainstream stores (who have switched to selling DVD movies, and games, markets that will die as well within a few years, given enough broadband capacity).

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (3, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169416)

As a record store owner, My business faces ruin.
I understand your pain. My family was in the saddle-making business since 1805 and I may have to close shop.

It's getting too expensive to find materials. We use only 100% hand-rubbed foreskin.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (4, Funny)

sdnoob (917382) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169458)

As a record store owner, My business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago..... .... I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.
so.. you're saying that even the bible thumpin' crowd is pirating music and driving you out of business? ... for shame!

have you tried putting a sign in the window saying "music piracy is a sin. buy from us and save your ticket to heaven." ?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

larrrk (1061450) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169498)

and where is your music shoppe? in the kingdom of fairyland?? have you ever though of writing a blog?

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169556)

People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago.

In my case you can thank the RIAA for that. With all their bullshit they've been pulling since the turn of the century, they've essentially driven me away from anything released by their member labels. Which of course is likely 90% of what's in the typical music store. I raised a personal boycott and left for better music, which I've found online - legally.

And congrats to scaring away your customers with your "blacklist". If you seriously think those kids you scared away didn't tell a single friend of theirs about how you flipped out on them and recommended they stay away from your store, you've got some screws loose.

Additionally:

"My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of."

This probably leads me to believe that the people pirating stuff that would have otherwise been bought from -you- are Moms and Dads. If you're not going to be selling the "popular stuff" (which unfortunately seems to be the "cop-killer rap") then you're damned well going to lose out.

Also the US is in a damned recession. People's wallets aren't as loose as they were.

Also people are buying their tunes more commonly online, LEGALLY. Every single mp3 sold could potentially represent the loss of a single CD to you. The majority of the crap put out on CDs these days, thanks to those RIAA angels you're writing to, are just that. Crap with a couple songs worth listening to. With itunes (A real competitor to YOU) and all the others selling so many mp3s, you seem to think those people are going to turn around and buy the CD as well.

They aren't.

My sister just told me a few weeks ago what to get her for christmas. It wasn't a CD. It was an mp3 card thing so she could buy some tracks online. The reason? She's gotten fed up with buying an overpriced CD, and finding most of it's crap - the only songs she ends up listening to are the few tracks of it that were on the radio - and because those are on the radio so often, she ends up not listening to it at all after a while.

Also keep it in perspective. This could potentially destroy the -recording- industry, of which you are a pawn, but music will strive regardless.

The War on Drugs resulted in a LOT of abuse of power. Are you sure you want the same thing to happen to -you- with a "War on Piracy"? Imagine! You're driving down the highway one day on the way to work. You get pulled over. Officer asks you to step outside. Oops, a blank CD gets "found" in your car! Bam! You're going to jail, or at the very least you no longer own your car!
Probably both tho.

I'm sure you can find several pirates willing to TIP the police off about you. What's that? You're innocent? Of course you are! But wait... :P I could see the RIAA just calling in to that line with a phonebook just to pad the numbers. Maybe I'm cynical, but when you consider the other illegal/shady stuff they've pulled, stuffing a ballot doesn't seem that unbelievable. ... ok, I think I've vented enough. I should probably register at some point so people will actually read these rants one day. ;)

--
A Different AC (obviously)

Parent is probably a copyright violation (3, Informative)

Brown (36659) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169672)

Ironically, the parent post seems to have been ripped from the diary of "Dr Michael Hfuhruhurr" on Kuro5hin, from more than 4 years ago.

See original on Kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org]

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (2, Funny)

dark whole (1220600) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169674)

They have fought the War on Drugs with skill
that's hilarious

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

dalleboy (539331) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169710)

Home sewing is killing fashion! Ban home sewing machines now!

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169716)

90% of "statistics" are made up on the spot, just like this one.

Instead of blaming your lack of taste and the shit your are trying to pass off as music for your business incompetence.

Maybe someone should call Child and family services and report for being unable to provide for your children.

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

hiruhl (1171697) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169746)

They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?
Maybe he's onto something -- we need to do something with all that empty space in our prisons, right? Let's fill the void with grandmothers and college students!

Re:Well, piracy hurts real people. (1)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169754)

As a lamp oil store owner, My business faces ruin. Lamp oil sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as much lamp oil as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

Unfortunately (3, Interesting)

ricebowl (999467) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169130)

EMI believes that consumers aren't allowed to store their music files online, and that MP3tunes is violating copyright law by providing a backup service.

Sadly, in some markets, he's probably correct. I can't speak for America, though I'd assume the Fair Use doctrine would apply, but in the UK I'm fairly certain that it's still, albeit perhaps only technically, illegal [wikipedia.org] (sorry, I couldn't find a more authoritative source) to copy CDs for any purpose, whether for transfer to an iPod for practical purposes or simply as an archival backup.

I'd hazard a guess, insofar as I'd want to try and infer reason in the minds of music executives, that online storage is probably perceived as being equal to distribution via p2p. I hope that, some day, a music company might at least try to employ someone familiar with IT. Presumably it'd save them a little time and money.

Re:Unfortunately (3, Interesting)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169158)

IMHO this makes a lot of sense. You can do whatever the hell you want with the CD you purchased - the only thing you cannot do is make a copy of it, with limited exceptions for fair dealing. That's traditionally how copyright law worked and it's how it still applies to books. It just needs to be explicit that the temporary copy made in the memory of the CD player or the computer to play the music does not infringe copyright.

Of course, the publishers want to have it both ways - at some times to insist on a strict interpretation of traditional copyright, and at others to insist that what you bought is a 'licence' rather than a CD or computer program, and they can restrict you even further than copyright allows.

Re:Unfortunately (2, Interesting)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169256)

>>>"the publishers want to have it both ways - at some times to insist on a strict interpretation of traditional copyright, and at others to insist that what you bought is a 'licence' rather than a CD or computer program, and they can restrict you even further than copyright allows."

I've found that assassination is an effective way to deal with dictators... including CEOs. The record execs have not reached that stage where they deserve to die, but if they continue "eating out" the substance of our citizens, harassing them with stupid court cases, then they will have crossed the line.

"From time to time, the blood of patriots and tyrants must be spilt to water the Tree of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson, founder of the Democratic Party, 3rd President of the United States

Re:Unfortunately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169294)

You can do whatever the hell you want with the CD you purchased - the only thing you cannot do is make a copy of it
And what about songs I purchase from Amazon? iTunes? I did not purchase a CD in these cases and instead downloaded an mp3 or m4p/m4a. How does your argument handle that?

Knowing that it doesn't, here's a follow-up. How will they or anyone else know the difference between a song I download and a song I rip (from a legally purchased CD, despite the scariness of the word 'rip')?

Are we sufficiently gray, yet?

Re:Unfortunately (1)

lorenzo.boccaccia (1263310) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169328)

moreover, you're licensed for listening to the performance, so you could listen it from whatever source you like. The remote backup is not as "redistribution", so you're not violating copyright. note that the remote backup doesn't even qualifies as "making available", which, listening from current judgements, may or may not be illegal.

Re:Unfortunately (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169366)

One of the main things you CAN do with your purchases of CDs and DVDs is to make back-up copies. You can even make the copy and store the original somewhere safe, using the copy in your DVD/CD player. That USE is only FAIR.

Re:Unfortunately (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169164)

I think that this article [yahoo.com] neatly explains why you are wrong.

Re:Unfortunately (2, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169198)

NIMP troll. Yay for the content filter on the company's firewall :)

Re:Unfortunately (1)

thetartanavenger (1052920) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169226)

Wow, this has got to be the first time a slashdotter has praised his company's content filter!!

Re:Unfortunately (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169382)

Well, since I have control over the blacklist, I don't mind it :P

Re:Unfortunately (4, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169172)

I'd hazard a guess, insofar as I'd want to try and infer reason in the minds of music executives, that online storage is probably perceived as being equal to distribution via p2p
Ah, but there's a vital difference because with P2P you transfer the copy to a different legal entity. If I rent a bank deposit box, the bank may be handling the copy but it remains my copy. Is MP3tunes allowed to offer a "mp3 vault" for my music? Apart from being a much more specialized service, it is any different than any other online backup solution? I haven't bothered to read the specifics but I hardly think it'll be the same case as P2P.

Re:Unfortunately (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169372)

"Is MP3tunes allowed to offer a "mp3 vault" for my music?"

Don't see why not since I can rent storage for my DVD collection and have the company ship them to whatever location. I think EMI are objecting mainly to the fact that the user has the 'key' to the safe and can therefore allow others to use it to bypass EMI's toll.

Re:Unfortunately (5, Interesting)

will_die (586523) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169230)

There is no fair use about this.
EMI is saying when you upload a file to an on-line site you are lossing posestion of the file and it is entering the possestion of the site you uploaded the file too. It the uploader is still claiming rights to the file then a copy was made. Making an additional copy of the music is a right that only EMI can give. Never mind that all the music upload was not from EMI.
mp3tunes case was that they were not sharing the files, only available to the uploader, and they did nothing with the files except provide backup protection and allow the uploader purchaser access to them.
The lower court has already decided on this in favor of mp3tunes. This was back in March, the item released today was more in the area of a press release.

Then as you say this will boil down to laws not keeping up with the way technology is going. Chances are in most states in the US and most other countries EMI is probably right in the law.

Re:Unfortunately (5, Funny)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169378)

Next thing you know, they'll be suing Apple because the Time Machine app makes copies of copyrighted music!

Re:Unfortunately (1)

sdnoob (917382) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169730)

not only that, but the ipod and every other mp3 player plays COPIES of music, not the original CD.. the very device that drives legal sales of digital music can be illegally used to play copies of CD's. oh, my..

next, they'll argue that SPEAKERS connected to an audio device constitutes DISTRIBUTION and/or public performance (even in your home) if someone other than the actual owner of the CD is listening. want to use a headphone splitter so you and your partner can listen to the same music next time you fly? forget it.. that'd be illegal "distribution".

and then you've got all the other backup services (on or offline), online "file folders" and ftp servers, that can be used to hold COPIES of music; and lets not forget about backup software, from windows to veritas to cobain and everything in between.. hell, lets just shut down the whole of the interweb since it can be used to "distribute" music illegally.

It probably is illegal (2, Informative)

Auckerman (223266) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169176)

While I'll simplify it down some, here are the two most important things you need to know about copyright.

Making copies of works that you didn't create is illegal unless you are doing it for personal use (fair use, there's a whole set up things that fall in this catagory).

Making copies of works you didn't create for the purposes earning money is illegal unless you have the copyright holders permission.

The problem is run into in the nature of the service being offered. This isn't merely storage, they are distributing the works. The way it seems to run, this isn't a common carrier thing that is being run in good faith, like say any random hosting company, this is a company that is advertising that it will distribute copies of music that you bought from someone else to you on any device you want. That changes the rules, they can't do that without a license, even if you have 5000 copies at home.

You do have the right to store it, they don't have the right to actively distribute it, especially, if my impression is correct, their goal is to make money doing this.

Re:It probably is illegal (5, Insightful)

daveime (1253762) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169340)

The problem is run into in the nature of the service being offered. This isn't merely storage, they are distributing the works.

They are NOT distributing it !!!

Distribute - verb (used with object), -uted, -uting.

1. to divide and give out in shares; deal out; allot.
2. to disperse through a space or over an area; spread; scatter.
3. to promote, sell, and ship or deliver (an item or line of merchandise) to individual customers, esp. in a specified region or area.
4. to pass out or deliver (mail, newspapers, etc.) to intended recipients.
5. to divide into distinct phases: The process was distributed into three stages.
6. to divide into classes: These plants are distributed into 22 classes.

They are not dividing the file into pieces, nor sharing it amongst any other parties. They are merely serving it back to the original owner when requested. I would imagine that definitions 3 and 4 could apply, but ONLY in the context of the original owner ... no plurals involved.

Your argument is like accusing a bank of "distributing" your money when you pay a cheque into the bank and then use an ATM at a different branch to withdraw the SAME money that BELONGS TO YOU !!!

The way it seems to run, this isn't a common carrier thing that is being run in good faith, like say any random hosting company, this is a company that is advertising that it will distribute copies of music that you bought from someone else to you on any device you want.

There's that word again :-( You really don't get it do you ?

That changes the rules, they can't do that without a license, even if you have 5000 copies at home.

When I purchase a CD, fair use says I may make backup copies for my own personal use. It does not dictate that those backup copies MUST remain within my own home, otherwise anyone with a cassette tape in their car that they copied from a CD they own would also be "breaking the law" everytime the car left the driveway.

If I choose to put my copies in a bank, they remain my property, and the bank does not "distribute" them to ANY third party. Likewise if I choose to store my data in an online file storage repository, and said repository ONLY returns that data to me when I supply MY username and password, it is exactly the same thing.

Don't let your shortsightedness blind you to the reality ... a URL with "mp3" in it does not automatically equate to "file sharing".

Re:It probably is illegal (1)

DKlineburg (1074921) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169660)

I think distribution would come in if you were to give your password and account to someone else. I think all the company would need to do at that point is to put it into the EULA (?) that you can't give your password out or you can be sued for breaking copyright laws. I think the passing of passwords and accounts is more what the copyright issue is about.

Re:It probably is illegal (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169430)

So is uploading to a secure FTP site and downloading from wherever else I am classed as distribution on behalf of whoever hosts my FTP site?

Of course your argument is based on the idea that it's for moving around copyrighted content from the big labels but why is that the case any more so than my ISPs FTP space they provide me? I could just as well be moving files that I made myself and own the copyright to. Taking in the wider context like this it must be realised that this kind of case has wide ranging implications for any kind of hosting provider, if EMI decides they're suddenly responsible for the legitimacy of the content then many providers will no longer be able to afford to operate due to the costs of vetting every incoming file.

I also disagree that it's even distribution in the sense you suggest, certainly copying a file to some hard drive space you've paid to use on the net seems really no different from copying from a local hard drive such as c: to a local hard drive such as e:. Is that distribution? Are Seagate or whoever makes my drive, or my motherboard manufacturer or Microsoft guilty for helping me "distribute" it from one drive to the other?

Re:It probably is illegal (4, Insightful)

MartinG (52587) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169500)

> Making copies of works that you didn't create is illegal unless you are doing it for personal use (fair use, there's a whole set up things that fall in this catagory).

No. Making copies of works that you are not the copyright holder of is illegal, unless you have a license to do so (for example, creative commons license, or the license a record company holds for a musicians work) or unless you don't need a license for other reasons. (There are quite a few reasons. Fair use is one example. See the laws for more)

The points you have listed are not "things you need to know about copyright." but more like "things you need to know about how the old fashioned greedy corporations choose to use copyright in many cases"

Re:It probably is illegal (3, Insightful)

MadJo (674225) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169596)

How is storing something remotely the same as distributing it?
The only thing I see this service do, is offer you a location somewhere else to store your music, so that you can listen to it on a different computer (such as for instance a work-pc).
They don't distribute it to anyone else.
Each user has his/her own password protected account on which they can store their music or any other file-type for that matter, it's not limited to music, I don't think.

So, saying that is illegal, will make for instance Amazon's S3 storage solutions also illegal, or other off-site storage solutions.

GOD suggests melting DOWn murderous 'hardware' (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169182)

we're recommending that the scrap be used to build huge solar-powered refrigerators/freezers, & other equipment to help the billions of needy folks all over the world that get little or no mention now that we're religious zealot crusaders. as for file sharing, &/or what is a fair day's pay; let yOUR conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_sc/ye_climate_records;_ylt=A0WTcVgednZHP2gB9wms0NUE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080108/ts_alt_afp/ushealthfrancemortality;_ylt=A9G_RngbRIVHsYAAfCas0NUE
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying

dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available. 'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet, & by your behaviors. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable. some of US should consider ourselves somewhat fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc.... as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis. concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order. 'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continue on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US. gov. bush denies health care for the little ones;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html

& pretending that it isn't happening here;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece
all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

(yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles. talk about reverse polarity;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece

Rippling Ramifications (4, Interesting)

frkbros44 (1269342) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169204)

I submit that the most siginficant aspect of this story is that it demonstrates now the artificial market interference of the "anti-piracy" enforcers is already being used to arbitrarily restrict user freedoms in areas that are only incidentally related to the purpose of copyrights.

This kind of rippling ramification will become ever more common as the legacy duplication and distribution industries get ever more desperate in protecting their obsolote business model from technological progress.

Seriously, what do you expect... (1)

lendude (620139) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169210)

...from EMI, or any of their ilk? They have to take this stance, no matter how inane in and of itself in this particular situation, because anything which remotely gives the consumer the overt or even tacit appearance of 'control' over music is anathema to their desire to re-vision their 'IP' as a 'pay-per-play' resource.

iTunes is illegal? (4, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169250)

I don't even understand how they can say this. If there isn't a copyright infringement going on here (I'd understand that), then what's the problem? By saying this, they're illegalizing the entire online music business? Some holding EMI's own music, like iTunes.

Or is this about some obscure difference between online storage and online storage?

Re:iTunes is illegal? (4, Insightful)

Inda (580031) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169358)

"Or is this about some obscure difference between online storage and online storage?"

Yes.

One makes EMI some money.
One does not.

Inda says EMI is illegal.

Re:iTunes is illegal? (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169688)

But since this isn't about copyright infringement (right?? I'm still a bit confused), EMI has earned money on the customer already, so I'd say they have made their money when they sold their music to the customer that put it in an online storage. *shrug*

Re:iTunes is illegal? (1)

sedmonds (94908) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169666)

iTunes is licensed by the copyright holder to distribute copies of songs, under specified circumstances. Without a license to distribute EMI songs, it's entirely possible that EMI has a case under current copyright law.

Um, inflammatory title anyone? (2, Interesting)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169298)

I can't find anything in the woefully short article or the summary that supports the claim of the title.

Re:Um, inflammatory title anyone? (1)

sulimma (796805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169726)

So, you actually read the article?

My files are encrypted (1)

grolaw (670747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169306)

and, all of them are legal files - video depos and pleadings.

The file-format boy to shove it.

I wonder if no one told them? Nobody cares!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169322)

Whether it is legal or not......
Whether it is right or wrong....
No one gives a fuck.............
âoeDo what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.â

Wow... (1)

robajob (1238762) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169354)

The music industry continues to endear itself to everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong... (4, Insightful)

teh kurisu (701097) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169360)

EMI wants to gain access to copies of files that users have on their MP3tunes accounts. Now, I'm assuming that you can't just go in and browse the list of files that a user has, otherwise they'd have shot themselves in the foot by arguing on privacy grounds.

So I'm assuming that EMI came along and said, "We want all the MP3s stored in user X's account." As it's unlikely that any user has an account filled 100% with EMI music, EMI would be given access to a significant amount of music from other labels, without the consent of the copyright holders. Which seems very hypocritical, even if it's legitimised by a court order.

They are going for the record... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169480)

... of stupidy! Next stage: memory brain cells are illegal! You can store music in them!

E.M.I,? (3, Informative)

flyneye (84093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169724)

Don't judge a book just by the cover
Unless you cover just another
And blind acceptance is a sign
Of stupid fools who stand in line
Like

E.M.I
E.M.I
E.M.I --Sex Pistols

Asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23169758)

EMI you either adapt to the internet or leave cuz when will continue to share!

No, NO NO! (1)

robogobo (891804) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169762)

Piracy isn't killing your record sales (as if anyone wants to pirate Christian Rock, are you kidding?). Legit Online stores are killing your store, just as online stores are killing most retail. Almost. Most retail has had to adjust their business model to survive, and most are successfully doing do. Your problem is that you're a whiner and a bully. Blacklist? are you fucking insane? Those kids you threw out of your store were your ticket to a better plan. What you should have done is to give them the CD and ask them to tell people where they got it. And when people come in, you should give them something else for free if they purchase. Advertising, man. Come on, 50% of the CDs on your shelves will never sell anyway, especially when you don't sell the "sick" shit. You need to adjust your model and get with the times. Piracy and online sales are doing nothing but raising the bar for good music. Everyone knows that music gets more exposure by electronic distribution, and that if someone really likes it, they go buy the CD to support the musicians. It's just the shit-ass music that gets pirated and never bought, as well it deserves. Your kids might not have nice clothes, but the even bigger problem is that your store is just clothing the record companies kids, not the musicians' kids. Your new business model (collectively) needs to eliminate the middleman.

That makes me a criminal (1)

thorkyl (739500) | more than 6 years ago | (#23169778)

So all this time I have been committing a crime?

My mp3's are on my lap top which is connected to the internet.

So my online storage of my MP3's is a violation

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