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New "Iron Curtain" for Russian Internet

Soulskill posted more than 6 years ago | from the search-no-evil-browse-no-evil-blog-no-evil dept.

Censorship 239

Dionysius, God of Wine and Leaf, points out a story about the Russian government's interest in expanding anti-extremism laws to include the blocking of websites and ISPs. The laws would match those already in use for the country's print media. Russian internet users may soon be forced to deal with the same issues facing Chinese citizens. Quoting: "An official at the Russian prosecutor's general office, Vyacheslav Sizov, told the Russian-language newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta that any web site that is determined to host what he terms 'extremist material' would be blocked from being accessible from within the Russian Federation. Given the Putin government's history with the media, 'extremist material' may be very broadly interpreted as any content unfriendly to the interests of the Russian government."

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Been done before (5, Insightful)

phpmysqldev (1224624) | more than 6 years ago | (#23193984)

This is quite a disturbing trend in so called 'industrialized' countries (although Russia's industrialized status could be questioned). The lack of outside information and abundance government propaganda is why N. Korea is so scary. Many of the people there that have no access to outside information actually whole heartedly believe what the government tells them, and why wouldn't they, it's all they've ever known. All it takes is one new generation to grow up behind these 'iron curtains' and the governments have effectively indoctrinated an entire country with the ideals of a select few.

Re:Been done before (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194056)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john, a big beautiful all-American football hero type, about twenty five, came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and married -- and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with him.

As soon as he left, I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist. I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass and not an end in itself.

Of course I'd had jerkoff fantasies of devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't?), but I had never done it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's handsomest young stud.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking.

I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract? I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does. I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock, beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down with his piss. I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit. Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my hankercheif, and stashed them in my briefcase.

In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole -- not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone.

The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process. I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did,bring to a grateful shiteater.

Re:Been done before (3, Insightful)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194204)

"All it takes is one new generation to grow up behind these 'iron curtains' and the governments have effectively indoctrinated an entire country with the ideals of a select few."

Sounds like America. Despite all the hoopla about freedom and whatnot in america, there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'. IMHO America is probably one of THE most indoctrinated societies in the world at the moment. You can't have a discussion about much with a large percentage of people about certain topics.

Re:Been done before (5, Insightful)

phpmysqldev (1224624) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194254)

Sounds like America. Despite all the hoopla about freedom and whatnot in america, there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'. IMHO America is probably one of THE most indoctrinated societies in the world at the moment. You can't have a discussion about much with a large percentage of people about certain topics.
Agreed, but the difference is in America the information is available, most people just don't care to find it on their own. In the case of Russia, you more than likely have people that want outside information and now won't be able to get it.

Re:Been done before (4, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194462)

Agreed, but the difference is in America the information is available, most people just don't care to find it on their own.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population, but it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners [nytimes.com] .

I think if I lived in a place with that rate of imprisonment, I'd be keeping my head down and avoiding controversy too.

Re:Been done before (-1, Troll)

drsquare (530038) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195124)

Maybe they have a more effective justice system. In the UK, you have to commit about a hundred crimes before you actually get sent to prison. The way I see it, the more criminals in prison, the less there are on the streets.

Re:Been done before (3, Insightful)

mrogers (85392) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195522)

The way I see it, the more criminals in prison, the less there are on the streets.

That would make sense if you could simply divide the population into criminals and non-criminals. Unfortunately it's not that simple - people move between the two categories. So when judging whether a particular method of punishment works, we need to ask three questions:

1) Does it keep criminals off the streets?
2) Does it dissuade non-criminals from becoming criminals?
3) Does it persuade criminals to become non-criminals?

Prison does well on the first test, and fairly well on the second (although the worst offenders don't respond to deterrents [newscientist.com] ). But it fails the third test: criminals released from prison in the UK have a higher reoffending rate than those given community sentences [homeoffice.gov.uk] . That's why judges are reluctant to impose a prison sentence for a first offence: once you've gone to prison, you're likely to keep going back.

Re:Been done before (1)

Ramze (640788) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195164)

It would be interesting to find out whether that's because the US has too many strict laws or broad reasons to incarcerate people or if other nations are simply lax on incarceration terms. Perhaps many countries simply execute their prisoners. I believe the UK has very short prison sentences due to prison overcrowding. Maybe the US can afford to build more jails than other countries. Maybe it has a better police force to catch more criminals. Maybe it doesn't have anywhere near the execution rate of other countries? If your statistics are correct, it'd be very interesting to know why. I'm sure some is due to drug and prostitution laws which aren't present in many countries. It'd make a fascinating research paper.

Re:Been done before (2, Insightful)

mrogers (85392) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195446)

I think if I lived in a place with that rate of imprisonment, I'd be keeping my head down and avoiding controversy too.

I agree that the rate of imprisonment in the US is disturbing, but with the exception of The War on Altered States of Consciousness the US doesn't tend to lock people up for crimes that could be interpreted as self-expression. As the NY Times article points out, the main reason for the high prison population in the US is harsh sentencing - people aren't being convicted for things that are legal elsewhere (again, with the exception of drugs), but once they're convicted they are being imprisoned for longer.

Re:Been done before (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194752)

> In the case of Russia, you more than likely have people that want outside information and now won't be able to get it.

Really? Never, ever, EVER! Noticed, that. People that want information, get it in Russia. There is no problem in information sources in Russia. There is however a lack of good information sources in US.

Re:Been done before (1)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195068)

Good point. No one will get it though.

Sounds like America? (2, Insightful)

mi (197448) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194366)

"All it takes is one new generation to grow up behind these 'iron curtains' ...

Sounds like America.

Please, confirm for the record, that it is your belief, one or more generations of Americans have grown up behind an 'iron curtain' unable to get information from an outside source.

Thank you.

Re:Sounds like America? (5, Insightful)

FoolsGold (1139759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194424)

Ah, but what you fail to realize is that even if Americans are able to get outside info, a lot of them have no desire to DO so, hence they are effectively indoctrinated regardless of having access to this information. They either don't care, or wouldn't believe it in the first place.

By being able to obtain the will of the people without having to close-off outside info, you've achieved much more than just simple censorship. It's much worse. It's willful ignorance, and THAT'S the scariest of all.

Re:Sounds like America? (4, Insightful)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194478)

Conceptually, the strategy of having a vocal "mainstream media" that labels anyone outside of a narrow political range as a "crazy extremist" can be even more powerful as an indoctrination tool than an "iron curtain". In the USSR, everyone knew that the news was all government propaganda. In the USA today, most people believe in the "free press".

Re:Sounds like America? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194674)

If China gets the "Great firewall of China"... and Russia gets the "Iron Curtain" firewall, does that mean if USA sets up its own censorship firewall that we will call it the "diseased blanket" firewall?

Re:Sounds like America? (1)

Daimanta (1140543) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195086)

No, they call it "the firewall to protect the children", I mean you can't be against a wall that protects the children, right?

Re:Sounds like America? (4, Interesting)

denton420 (1235028) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194692)

It is easy to tailor ones argument over issues as open ended as this one. If you have an end in mind, you can certainly reach it through a variety of logical routes such as the "free press" indoctrinating the masses. Of course the free press is going to do this. People do not watch the news to not believe it in ANY country. They take bits and pieces of it, some people take more than others.

I strongly believe that while one can turn on the television and be disheartened by Faux news, the fact that information is out there that is readily available sets America apart from countries such as Russia and China. None of us can really relate to how life must be in a country such as N. Korea. Drawing parallels from these countries to America is a bit cynical, no? Is it not belittling the extreme censorship they endure?

You cant expect the masses to get it, thats why they have their title as the masses. While one could argue that the masses control who gets elected, I think it is just as easy to argue that the masses do not know what they are getting in a representative.

Long gone are the days where candidates actually take meaningful stances on issues. Even campaign promises can quickly be broken due to "unexpected" budget cuts.

I believe our founding fathers were quite familiar with this idea, and hence decided that we should not govern our selves directly, since we clearly do not know what is best for us.

Now whether the people making the decisions in America... that is a whole different nut to crack...

Re:Sounds like America? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195530)

I don't think too many Americans actually believe that the press is free and unbiased or without an agenda. Most people seem to think they are biased and wroking against them. Ask a conservative and he will say it is liberally biased but when asking a liberal, they will claim the same publications are conservative shills.

It is more likely that there are a lot of people that you are meeting in the US over the Internet or whatever, that simply don't have all the concerns that you do. They use the Internet as a means to fuck off where you seem to think it is a tool or something. This means that you are meeting the slackers which I'm sure exist in every country, it is just different enough for it to stick out in your mind. I know brits that don't even know why WW1 was fought for. The same people who openly accept Cameras on every corner watching your ever move in public. The same people who don't care that their right to keep and bear arms which is probably the best way to control their politicians has been taken for the most part. They don't care that essentially only criminals have guns now and companies are running to the publics defense with bullet proof hoody style sweat shirts [timesonline.co.uk] .

And don't think this is limited to the American's or British. In AU they are classifying a laser as a weapon to ban it from the majority of people's possession because a minority of people have misused it. I was in a conversation the other day where an Australian citizen told me that if was perfectly fine for the government to decide who needs and doesn't need things.

No, it doesn't stop there, I have more examples but I have showed my point quite well about the so called indoctrination of a countries citizens. Your probably an American, most likely from the north east, Mass area, and think your shift doesn't stink and everyone else's does except that you have some romantic affliction to foreigners and countries other then your own. I guess I should just offer the advice that you need to get out more and get involved with a circle of friends that aren't stupid if this really is a problem your seeing. You can trust me, it isn't something isolated within the US and it isn't something that is wide spread like you think it is.

Re:Been done before (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194430)

you are retarded

Re:Been done before (3, Insightful)

user317 (656027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194436)

Sounds like America. Despite all the hoopla about freedom and whatnot in america, there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'.
just because Americans believe that no one should be forced to donate their money, doesn't mean that we don't donate ourselves. http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropy/philanthropy_stats.asp [nptrust.org]

IMHO America is probably one of THE most indoctrinated societies in the world at the moment. You can't have a discussion about much with a large percentage of people about certain topics.
What do you even mean by that? The topics that divide American politics, the ones that people care deeply about are discussed all the time. Abortion, gay rights, immigration, war on terror, torture just to name a few. Just because there is a large percentage of people who have a different view then you doesn't mean that they are not talking about it.

Re:Been done before (1)

Z80xxc! (1111479) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194440)

What you say is true, however, keep in mind that (at least for the time being) we still have almost entirely unrestricted access to the internet. That's not to say we haven't been indoctrinated - I'd be the first to admit that, actually. However, fortunately, we still have access to the rest of the net, which allows us to get less biased information if we so choose to. And although it's true that one can't discuss a lot of things with a lot of people, nevertheless, we have discussions about sensitive topics frequently in high school. We discuss controversies in the government. We openly criticize what is happening and we do have discussions about things that maybe doesn't exactly fall under what the government would like to see us indoctrinated with. The fact that we can do this in a public high school in the U.S. and that there's nothing the government is doing or going to do to stop us is why the U.S. is still different. Maybe not for long, but at least for now, we do have some freedoms, even if they are being curtailed as we speak.

Re:Been done before (4, Insightful)

Neoprofin (871029) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194520)

If we're all so indoctrinated and there is no freedom why do I have to sift through so many overblown posts about the American media to find any posts actually discussing this new iron curtain?

Re:Been done before (2, Interesting)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194548)

Sounds like America. Despite all the hoopla about freedom and whatnot in america, there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'. IMHO America is probably one of THE most indoctrinated societies in the world at the moment. You can't have a discussion about much with a large percentage of people about certain topics.
It's not at all like America. America has does not have state censorship - the constitution forbids it. Ok, I'm sure you can find a few corner cases where it has happened but compared to China or even Russia where the government directly decides the content of the only legal news sources and kills unofficial journalists it is non existent.

Of course in the marketplace of ideas, you're allowed to try to sell anything no matter how quirky. But that does not mean that all ideas will sell equally well. Some ideas will be popular like iPods and some will be unpopular like feces brown Zunes.

Maybe you're the indoctrinated one, and you only believe in Socialism because you avoid reading anything that disagrees with your preconceptions. Certainly what I've read about planned economies and dictatorships of the proletariat makes me think they just end up making most people poor, unfree and unhappy while a spoiled, vicious elite wields absolute power. If someone seriously advocated them to me, I'd argue with them just like people argue with you.

From what you're saying you'd be happier in a country where no one argues with Socialist ideas. Now I've read enough about those places to tell you that you'd probably end up in a concentration camp for unorthodox thought. It's the idealists and true believers that end up getting martyred, not the vast mass of people that are basically uninterested in politics.

And incidentally the fact that you're able in America to read only progressive media that agrees with you while other people are free to watch only Fox news that agrees with them tells me that the government is not indoctrinating people, it's more that they indoctrinate themselves. Which is fair enough of course, they will all end up being wrong politically but in different ways.

I think of it as error terms from the Platonic ideal set of policies that no individual can know. Imagine that the political spectrum is represented as a two dimensional line. The far left have a large negative number and the far right have large positive ones. The average is zero. Now the average may not coincide with the Platonic ideal of course, since there are some key facts that no one knows. No one can know how well the policies being debated will actually work in practice of course. But the average is not bad per se, just not perfect. It is much better than fringe ideas.

You can think of the democratic process - free elections and a free press - as averaging out all the large individual errors to produce a smaller error in the policies of the governing party which will try to get elected by having policies that most people support.

Of course if I were on the far left or the far right this process would work very much against me. But to me that's the point of democracy, a few people at the fringes of the political spectrum end up not having any power at all ever and the vast mass of centrists get to compete for it.

Re:Been done before (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194708)

You can read Kasparov and Politkovskaya in the USA. In fact, you can write or read whatever you want here. Now, I know I was indoctrinated to think that, but..., in the words of Bill Hicks..."Its a Fact".

Re:Been done before (1)

rm999 (775449) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194766)

"any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'."

Wasn't it like that during the previous generation? And the generation before that?

Re:Been done before (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23195082)

"...there is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'."

This is utter bullshit, no one will call you a socialist or commie for helping another person. What you are referring to is an issue of what the government should be responsible for. The U.S. national government was originally formed as a means to regulate relations between states and to protect the states. It was not designed to take care of individuals. The more responsibility you pile on top of the national government the less individual's opinions matter. That's what state and local governments are for. If you get called a socialist or commie because you want something like universal free health care, that has nothing to do with you wanting to help others and everything to do with you wanting the national government to help others for you.

Re:Been done before (1)

Andtalath (1074376) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195322)

Seriously, don't even try to compare the states with North Korea. The states have a lot of indoctrination, however, it comes from a lot of sources, not just the state, making it a very different beast.

Re:Been done before (3, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195414)

Wow.. Do you actually believe that? Maybe you were indoctrinated into the lack of perspective groups of people. It isn't if you want to help, it is when you want to take something from me against my will/wishes in order to do your good that gets you labeled as a commie and socialist. And quite frankly, that would by definition be communist/socialist.

I know Bashing America at every change is fun and profitable, but you could at least get the story straight first. I mean with all the valid reasons to Bash America, you have to go and basically make something up.

Hyperbole or just plain ignorance? (0, Flamebait)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195554)

here is substantial indoctrination i.e. any mention of helping others gets you labelled a 'socialist' or a 'commie'.

What is it with people like you? The problem isn't helping others, Americans donate more per capita than most other peoples - and conservatives even more so than "liberals" which I am assuming you are referring to as being targeted for the "socialist/commie" label.

If your willing to help people that is fine, it is what makes America great. Many of us pour money into charities daily, charities of our choice.

YOU ARE NOT GIVING IF IT IS SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY

Clear? I am quite happy you want to give and that others do to. Just do it with your own money. you have NO RIGHT to my property and using the government to force me to give up my property so you can feel good about yourself is wholly against what this country was founded upon. Amazing how some of the very same people here will come crying over the Patriot act then turn around and lambaste people for wanting to maintain their property rights.

You are a socialist if your plan for making your fellow man better off means taking from others to do so, especially if you buy into this idea of taking more from others simply because they earn more. Your also a selfish bastard too

Re:Been done before (3, Insightful)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194426)

All it takes is one new generation to grow up behind these 'iron curtains' and the governments have effectively indoctrinated an entire country with the ideals of a select few.
All it takes is one generation to grow up exposed to the US media machine and we have a country effectively devoid of any of its original culture. The sword has two edges.

Democracy did win right? (5, Insightful)

kidsizedcoffin (1197209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23193986)

The stories about Putin and his hot gymnast girlfriend got a paper's license revoked. I imagine the internet rules would be as even handed.

Re:Democracy did win right? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194022)

The stories about Putin and his hot gymnast girlfriend got a paper's license revoked. I imagine the internet rules would be as even handed.
A hot Russian woman? Are you insane?

Re:Democracy did win right? (5, Funny)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194042)

This is /.
Here, hot means alive and breathing.

Re:Democracy did win right? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194074)

This is /. Here, hot means microwaved.
Fixed it for you.

Re:Democracy did win right? (1)

RoboRay (735839) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194084)

As opposed to alive and not breathing?

Re:Democracy did win right? (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194096)

It happens [wikipedia.org]

Anaerobic organisms (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194102)

Tapeworms

Re:Democracy did win right? (2, Informative)

BattleCat (244240) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194054)

She's hot indeed. Check Alina Kabaeva pics , see for ourself. And, by the way, newspaper's license wasn't revoked. GP got his facts wrong.

Re:Democracy did win right? (3, Funny)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194580)

It reminds me. I've got a Hungarian friend who's obviously not keen on things Russian given Russia's historical behaviour in Hungary [wikipedia.org] .

Back when Putin was first elected my friend read that he flew his own fighter down to Chechnya. And it's true, he has flown to official visits in jet fighters [reuters.com] .

Which, whatever you think about the guy as a politician is damn cool. He's like James Bond, or maybe a James Bond villian. Rumours about his personal life [telegraph.co.uk] just confirms the impression.

Re:Democracy did win right? (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194876)

yep, he pretty much was the coolest russian head of state of at least a century.
flying a jet fighter, black belt in judo, promises of blasting terrorists even in their toilets.

Re:Democracy did win right? (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195140)

He does seem like something out of Ian Fleming. I always thought a typical Ian Fleming character had a thin veneer of sophistication over a fundamentally limited intellect and thuggish personality. It's enough to fool the bimbos they prey on, and to some extent each other but you definitely wouldn't want to get stuck talking to them in a bar since they'd probably enjoy beating you to a pulp more than sex with yet another interchangable woman. They remind me of Patrick Bateman, the souless yuppy antihero of American Psycho actually. They certainly share his strange disatisfaction with normal heterosexual sex, unthinking materialism and fondness for extreme violence.

Then again who hasn't dreamed of saying something like this to a European who keeps whining about your country's brutal but eminently practical foreign policy -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/12/world/main529102.shtml [cbsnews.com]

Putin became agitated Monday after a reporter from the French newspaper Le Monde questioned his troops' use of heavy weapons against civilians in the war in Chechnya. Chechnya is predominantly Muslim.

"If you want to become an Islamic radical and have yourself circumcised, I invite you to come to Moscow," Putin said.

"I would recommend that he who does the surgery does it so you'll have nothing growing back, afterward," he added. Circumcision is a tenet of Islam for all males.
I dunno really. Russia was in semi terminal decline before Putin. I think desperate times increase the likelihood of psychopaths being elected and more controversially that you sometimes need them.

Certainly in the UK, Churchill was pretty much completely vicious when he had a chance but his viciousness was directed at the Nazis and probably saved the country. I suspect he'd have dealt with whiny Euro journalists with much the same contempt too, though he would probably have phrased in a more genuinely witty way. Someone genuinely civilized who listened to the Eurowhiners might have lost everything because they lacked the fundamental ruthlessness necessary to deal with the situation. And once there were no more enemies to be smitten, the Great British electorate replaced Churchill.

And maybe the Le Monde reporter had second thoughts when Muslim mobs burned the Paris suburbs and imposed de facto Shariah law on 5 million French citizens. [danielpipes.org]

Re:Democracy did win right? (1)

hughk (248126) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195334)

Putin needs a fluffy white cat!

Re:Democracy did win right? (2, Insightful)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194088)

Sharapova.

Re:Democracy did win right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194386)

Sharapova.
Met her.

Not that hot.

Re:Democracy did win right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194542)

Russia, the number one source for weapons-grade jailbait.

Re:Democracy did win right? (2, Insightful)

neurolux (1150083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194150)

Sure democracy won. Russians decided to take advantage of their democracy by voting for authoritarians.

Re:Democracy did win right? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194356)

When your kids are starving, when your house is taked away from you by mafia thugs, when you work your ass off on three jobs and they just plain won't pay you for months on end, what would you do?

For most people basic survival of their kids and family comes first. Democracy -a distant second.

Re:Democracy did win right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194404)

Are you talking about America or where?.

Re:Democracy did win right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194472)

Russia. Whatever you say about America, kid's don't yet starve en masse, and they do pay you for your work (might be not much, but they do send the check).

But the second part is true everywhere I suspect.

In Soviet Russia (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194000)

Redundant meme censored.

or... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194602)

In soviet russia curtain irons YOU!...

Czar Putin (1)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194014)

For Russian history to be made correct, all that is necessary would be to go back and add the title 'Czar' to all the leaders since 1917.

I don't know how yet, but... (3, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194018)

I think that it is time for the Internet (read anonymous) to start striking back at those world leaders that wish to silence information.

Yes, I'm American and I think the Bush Administration is one of the likely targets of such an effort.

We have the Internet, it is free, information flows around the globe. For all the faults that might bring it has been hailed as an equalizer and liberator of peoples all over the globe. Freedom of information is the basis of the good inside an OLPC.

FTFA:

Print (and television) media in Russia is already under either official or unofficial government control, leaving the Internet as the last frontier free of government scrutiny. "It is difficult to find anyone who is not against extremism but it depends on how the law is used," Center of Journalism in Extreme Situations director Oleg Panfilov told the AFP in response to the news. Panfilov noted that the government has used the law "selectively" in the past, but that it's still worrisome when the government tries to expand the law into new areas.
Yes, we are all against extremism and extremists, but very few of us agree on what exactly those are. Such subjective terms should never be allowed to be enacted as laws. By allowed, I mean that free peoples should protest such laws, even if they are not in the country where it is enacted.

In times past it was said that Monarchy's that do not hang together will 'hang' separately. I think that time has not changed this at all, and many of the so called republics are merely facades for the ruling classes to hide behind.

Wow, that sounded a bit socialist or something, but I truly think that the Internet has the power to change things for the better. If the Russian people are unable to, perhaps we outside of Russia should make our voices known and heard.

Does anyone have any ideas?

ideas (2)

aleph42 (1082389) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194186)

IMHO, one of the best way to use the democratic power of the internet would be to have internet communities buying stocks.

A bit like the so called "ethic funds" who buy stocks in companies with good ethics first, then try to influence the companie's decision according to that agenda (which many entities do, only they do so with an "ethic" agenda in mind")

As an optimistic person, I think that if the mass of internet users did that, they would be more powerful than the few rich people right now (that might need some math).

As for the details (in bulk):

- A central website, looking something like slashdot or wikipedia (although with far higher standards for accountability, no special power to foundators, or even better, a system with no admins (every modification on the site is automatic and public, with a hash system to prevent tempering).

- Someone's vote is weighted by the amount of money he gave to the site, but with a low (300$?) cap; you can invest more (and get the proportional revenues), but your voting power is capped.

- People vote for the stocks to be bought, and for the common voice of the community in stock holder's vote. Since an account is linked to real money, you don't have most of the problems with votes on the internet (bots, etc).

That would give more power to "public opinion", which oterwise tends to be to often disregarded. Even if the community is small, it's power can already tip the balance in many cases; think about the EFF, for exemple. With that kind of money, even if you can be majoritary share holder, you can already buy ads in the New York Times or things like that, and break the barrier for entering the "rich people/big companies club".

Re:ideas (1)

aleph42 (1082389) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194206)

Just a precision:
It can seem like that idea focuses only on western consumers (like influencing a software companie's choces or stuff like this), but when you look at the role of oil companies in affecting the stability of some african governments (including dictatorships), or the importance of economic embargo in diplomatic relations, you'll see it can be much more than that.

Re:ideas (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194222)

Thanks for that, it's a good idea... a great idea. Money always talks.

I'm working with another person on brainstorming ways to push democratic 'public opinion' onto the politicians, and this fits in with that goal.

Thanks again.

Re:ideas (1)

English French Man (1220122) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195122)

Your idea is insightful, but I'm afraid that capping voting power is not possible, if you combine it with the problems with votes on the internet.

e.g. Rich people could register multiple accounts using bots, and have access to uncapped voting power

Re:I don't know how yet, but... (4, Insightful)

Shihar (153932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194336)

Yeah, I am pretty sure that a bunch of ornery 16 year old American kids are going to kick over the Russian political system to the cheers of the Russian people. Right.

I have a better idea. How about we just realize that people need to sort their own shit out? The best you can possibly do is elect a government that realizes that it isn't going to beat another nation into submission with rhetoric. If the west wants to do anything for the poor huddled masses of all the oppressed people around the world, it should happily and merrily jump in to help fledgling democracies, reward leaders who bring about democratic change, make some vague attempt to hold a little moral high ground, and serve as example and rewarder.

Tongue lashing Putin is a waste of breath. Words are worth their weight in gold. The best thing to do is give Russia a pat on the head, a hug, and a wad of cash when they do right, and wait for a less drunk and incompetent Yeltsin to appear to bring Russia back to something closer to a democracy.

Re:I don't know how yet, but... (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194780)

Mod parent Insightful.
Could not agree more.

That would be really good practice on the part of US.

Re:I don't know how yet, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23195332)

Yes, that and stop reading the TIME magazine who declared Putin THE person of 2007. *Spit*

Re:I don't know how yet, but... (1)

u_genie (1231118) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195342)

We have tons of a red-eye fanatics here in Russia. Being poisoned by TV propoganda they're screaming everywhere that democracy is only the evil for Russia and we should go "back to USSR". But in the case of a new politic crisis all of those fanatics immediately forget what they were screaming about and you can see them in the queue of refugees leaving the country. It's some kind of pseudo-patriotism. The politic system they offer for Russia instead of the Democracy is the "Total Corruption" (from up to down). And this's very convenient system to live in. You just need to be in one of the 4 clans - "police", "criminals", "bureaucrats" and "militaries" (the most poor clan now) and then you'll get access to all the national budget's money.

Lenin's tomb (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194036)

Lenin must be resting quite comfortably in his tomb.

Re:Lenin's tomb (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194134)

You mean Stalin. Learn some history, Lenin was horrified at what Stalin turned the soviet union into.

Another anti russian hysteria (1, Troll)

BattleCat (244240) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194038)

OMG another antiRussian propaganda thread. What else ? When will somebody state russkies drink blood of innocent American babies on lunch.
In another news, USofA is the land of freedom and equal limitless opportunities .

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194070)

OMG. Another poster that instantly calls is propaganda because he doesn't like what it says. I'm from Europe and even I can see what is happening. No need to bring up the United States.

Wake up dipshit. Bush is a fascist, Putiin a fascist. They equally suck.

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194164)

It's not propaganda if it's true. What has Putin ever done for Russia except embessling billions, undermining democracy, and building up state-endorced mafia?

The one good thing I can think of is high oil prices. But the Russians should thank Bush and Jiang Zemin for that.

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (1)

Ox0065 (1085977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194226)

The article is interesting, informative and valid to the best of my knowledge. It is also part of a bigger picture The truth can be propaganda if all you hear are true tales of woe about one side.

Are you saying that if China reports only the bad news about Taiwan, but the reports happen to be true, that it isn't propaganda? It still pushes an agenda, a particular framing of reality. It's propaganda.

His determination that this is somehow bad is a value judgement that is perhaps a little irrelevant on a discussion board for intelligent people... ...I can hear it now:

you're new here, aren't you?

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (1)

Ox0065 (1085977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194166)

What are you trying to say? America is entirely different from what they do in Russia.

Over in America they don't block your website. They read your e-mail, & if they think they might not like you, they kidnap you without charges, torture you for a few years without trial & then release you like 'Oops! We made a mistake. No hard feelings hey! BTW. We're watching you.'

At any price, all to protect the liberty and freedom of people with no guaranteed healthcare, education or welfare and a user pays justice system... ...and maybe to protect their owner's owner's business interests in dictatorships across the globe.

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (2, Insightful)

darkhitman (939662) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194266)

Over in America they don't block your website. They read your e-mail, & if they think they might not like you, they kidnap you without charges, torture you for a few years without trial & then release you like 'Oops! We made a mistake. No hard feelings hey! BTW. We're watching you.'
The difference being, in Russia, they don't release you at the end.


P.S. I just followed up an "in Russia" clause with a statement in normal order. What is Slashdot coming to?

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194694)

In soviet russia, the memes forget you ;)

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (2, Insightful)

temcat (873475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195116)

Please go fuck yourself. It's you who is anti-Russian here. You know why? Because when somebody says something bad about Putin or Russian government or newly enacted Russian laws, trolls like you pop up and say "you're all against Russia", EQUATING Putin/the government/the laws with Russia and thus INSULTING RUSSIA. My country - or shall I say "this country" to make you extra mad - deserves something better than these. And better than you, of course.

Re:Another anti russian hysteria (1)

hughk (248126) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195388)

Thank heavens. However, there are many, particularly older people and especially in the oblasts who feel uncomfortable with the idea of uncertainty, wanting a strong and stable government. They do not understand that central control is in the end unsustainable.

There are a lot of smart people in St. Petersburg who understand this (and elsewhere, but St Pete's proximity to western countries brings another perspective). Unfortunately, it is far from easy for their view to be propagated even just in St. Pete, hence the presence of a strong Kremlin supporter as mayor.

Putin isn't Russia but given the backing of the FSB, it is effectively their opinion which is running (& ruining) Russia. The issues remain, the failure of the rule of law, the failure to develop infrastructure or manufacturing and the control of information.

Well... (0, Offtopic)

Swifti (801896) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194044)

At least this will end the F-16 versus Mig-29 debates on YouTube.

Copper Curtain (1)

Ox0065 (1085977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194064)


Wouldn't that be a copper curtain?

Maybe a glass curtain. ... people who live behind glass curtains, shouldn't throw stones... (^-^)

Re:Copper Curtain (1)

rev_media (973772) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194118)

Or is it only people who live behind glass curtains should throw stones?

Re:Copper Curtain (1)

Ox0065 (1085977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194180)

I mean people who live behind glass curtains shouldn't throw stones 'or else...'

People lucky enough to not live behind glass curtains are perhaps morally obliged to throw a stone or two occasionally.

that's what I think.

Re:Copper Curtain (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194330)

Airgap curtain.

Re:Copper Curtain (1)

gehrehmee (16338) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194616)

I would propose "lead curtain".

Re:Copper Curtain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194654)

Faraday curtain.

Iron ????? Curtain (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194086)

Let's see... we have the Great Wall of China and the Great Firewall of China. What should we insert between "Iron" and "Curtain" to describe this?

Re:Iron ????? Curtain (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194122)

Sorry to reply to my own post.
How's 'Big Iron Curtain'?

Re:Iron ????? Curtain (2, Informative)

arotenbe (1203922) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195386)

How's 'Big Iron Curtain'?
But "Iron Fire Curtain" would sound so much cooler!

[...gets out "Karma Fire Extinguisher"...]

In modern Russia... (1)

wickmclean (311384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194112)

...the internet pwns you.

Re:In modern Russia... (2, Funny)

maxair_mike (1154515) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194154)

Actually, I believe you were looking for: In Soviet Russia, internet browses you.

to her fluttering scarlet banner... (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194172)

Unbreakable union of freeborn republics, great Russia has welded forever to stand.

Created in struggle by will of the people, united and mighty, our Soviet land!

"message force multipliers"? (5, Interesting)

Sonnung (1200123) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194238)

Just a few days ago there was a story here about new Russian law requiring Wi-Fi registration. It turn out they would require registration of commercial and non-standard equipment. Earlier there was a story about creating an isolated Russian Internet. It turned out they just want to use Cyrillic letters in domain names. There were many stories like this before and each time they were twisted to cause cries about dictator Putin and slavish Russians. Are these posted by "message force multipliers"?

Re:"message force multipliers"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194832)

And Hitler just wanted to get his troops some warm soup from Stalin, given how cold the winter was.

Re:"message force multipliers"? (1)

temcat (873475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195138)

The WiFi story was bogus, and it was found out soon after it appeared at fontanka.ru. This one seems to be real.

Re:"message force multipliers"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23195266)

Nice try. By "message force multipliers", do you mean the Russian government Internet brigades http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_brigades#Internet_brigades_in_Russia [wikipedia.org] ? Or the advertising agency hired by said government "to improve the image of Russia abroad" http://www.svobodanews.ru/Article/2006/06/14/20060614181622763.html [svobodanews.ru] ?
Have to agree with you, they seem to be posting here.

Re:"message force multipliers"? (1)

aerton (748473) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195270)

I've searched website of the mentioned Rossiiskaya Gazeta to found an article under similar header with talk with Vyacheslav Sizov http://www.rg.ru/2008/04/23/prokuratura-izmenenia.html [www.rg.ru] (Russian). According to the article, there were some clamour that proposals refutations to the posted materials of extremist materials would have to be posted upon request, rather than court decision. Vyacheslav Sizov clarifies that that was misunderstanding, and the proposal merely provides government organs a right to sue to enforce posting of refutations. Apparently, now only individuals and organizations can sue someone to force to post a refutation. When asked about similar practice in other countries, he replies that in UK and USA there is no need for the court decision to deny access to web resources. A mere request from corresponding government organ is enough. P.S. Not to say that Putin is no longer a president and is not mentioned in any of the sources.

Yuo F/ail It? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194322)

[mit.ed0] found to kkep up as

In Mother Russia (1)

Skeetskeetskeet (906997) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194328)

Internet blocks you!

Shouldn't that be called ... (2, Funny)

DrJimbo (594231) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194374)

... an iCurtain?

US and Europe not far behind (2, Insightful)

soren100 (63191) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194446)

The US and the European Union seem to be working hard to keep up.

The EU just passed a resolution making it illegal to publish "terrorist propaganda" [arstechnica.com] , even though the actual definitions are quite vague. That vagueness is incredibly broad:

EU officials said the decision to punish propaganda, recruitment and training for terrorism through the internet filled an important gap in European legislation. [bbc.co.uk]
America hasn't outlawed "terrorist propaganda" websites yet, but they are working hard to create the case that they need to -- they recently passed the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007" [govtrack.us] , in which our government finds that:

" The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

    While the United States must continue its vigilant efforts to combat international terrorism, it must also strengthen efforts to combat the threat posed by homegrown terrorists based and operating within the United States."
The US government has been so busy pumping the notion that the Internet is recruiting terrorists at home that they have even claimed that terrorists hang out in the online game Second Life [wired.com] where they engage in information warfare [washingtonpost.com] .

Re:US and Europe not far behind (2, Interesting)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194530)

I don't think the US (not sure about Europe) even need such. Those who are interested in information and gather and disseminate it are often quickly labeled as conspiracy theorists. Most others simply don't care. (large generalizations here of course)

Re:US and Europe not far behind (1)

dbcad7 (771464) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195076)

One groups news is another's propaganda and vice versa.

And Slashdot can cut their bandwidth 20% (1)

LostMyBeaver (1226054) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194634)

Was this article in fact a cost cutting measure?

Really? (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 6 years ago | (#23194710)

Given the Putin government's history with the media, 'extremist material' may be very broadly interpreted as any content unfriendly to the interests of the Russian government."
And given the "Western" (read: American) media history with Putin government it may mean Fox News, that should've been blocked in US long ago if Americans valued their sanity.

Russian Hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23194716)

With Russia housing some of the world's best hackers, I wonder what their plan is?

Nothing new (1)

iGraphiX (1271994) | more than 6 years ago | (#23195016)

Ra-ra-rasputin... Oh, those Russians! I have a friend in Leningrad, he told me that his website was brought down because he had a link to a blog that was offering DIY information on how to build a gun. Isn't it that funny since the most developed weapon trading is made in East and South of Russia. Only God knows what's happening in the far East. But his humble site has been taken offline for a simple link. Meanwhile, politicians do their business with trading guns and kill "unwanted" reporters, which is not dangerous for the Government and their democracy, but a link is definitely dangerous.
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