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Dell Will Offer XP Past Cutoff Date

Soulskill posted more than 6 years ago | from the dude-you're-getting-a-more-functional-os dept.

Windows 351

Dionysius, God of Wine and Leaf, brings news that Dell will be offering Windows XP pre-installed on their computers past the June 30 cut-off date. Computers purchased with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate past June 30 will come with a copy of XP Pro. Dell plans to simply install that copy upon request to save users a step. Perhaps this will help Microsoft officials make up their minds about another extension.

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Ubuntu Instead? (4, Interesting)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201084)

If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings [dell.com] instead?

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Insightful)

iamhigh (1252742) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201124)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
Why, because that is what the customer wants? We have already moved our purchasing to used retailers in expectance of this day. We have no plans on installing Vista, and as much as I would love it, Linux is not a viable option at this time.

I applaude this decision and will do my best to support them if they continue selling XP.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201798)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
Why, because that is what the customer wants? We have already moved our purchasing to used retailers in expectance of this day. We have no plans on installing Vista, and as much as I would love it, Linux is not a viable option at this time.

I applaude this decision and will do my best to support them if they continue selling XP.
Microsoft has stated XP will be technically supported until 2014.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (3, Interesting)

yincrash (854885) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201132)

There is no XP community support?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

tattood (855883) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201190)

I was just going to comment on that also. I think he meant patch support, but I believe that software vendors are required to still support "retired" operating systems for at least a few years after they end-of-sale them.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (4, Insightful)

perlchild (582235) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201448)

1) Dell already offers ubuntu under certain conditions, it's not like offering or not XP is linked, to the people affected by this(I keep referring people to the dell website, and people come back with the impression they can only get a pc with vista now, despite the fact that its still sold.
2) WinXP will have "support" long past the cut off date. The end of support date for Windows XP was announced before the end of sale date, I can't rememnber what it is right now, but I believe its in 2010 sometime.
3) Even if they didn't have "support" from microsoft, Dell was already handling some of the support for their XP machines, so it's not fair to say it's unsupported, just "unsupported by vendor"

On the other hand, why not just reverse engineer the cut off date from the end of support date Microsoft? if you're going to stop supporting XP by Jan 2011, the only cut off date that makes sense to me to stop selling is is June 2010, not something in 2008.

OK OK... I know, I'm on slashdot, and expecting Microsoft to make sense, when will I ever learn?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Funny)

alex4u2nv (869827) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201496)

2012!
When Microsoft stops supporting Win XP, the world will crash!
It was predicted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012 [wikipedia.org]

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201628)

3) Even if they didn't have "support" from microsoft, Dell was already handling some of the support for their XP machines, so it's not fair to say it's unsupported, just "unsupported by vendor"
You ever actually tried to call Microsoft for Tech Support? The first words out of the Indian tech's mouth will be "Is this an OEM machine?" and then "Call Dell, we don't support you. *click*"

I work for Dell as a Prosupport Agent, and I get all kinds of software calls that we try our best to fix for people. 90% of the time they start out the call with "I called Microsoft and they said to call you..."

I don't mind those. I accept that Microsoft has gotten away with pushing support away from them to cut costs for so long that it's a given.

It's the "I called my ISP and they said that the DSL modem is connecting, and to call you to fix my Internet" calls that really grill my bacon. Seriously, your L1s can't even do netsh int ip reset log.txt or basic TCP/IP T/S? (Ping, check gateway, etc)? Seriously, what's the problem guys?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1, Informative)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201814)

I spent 7.5 years doing support for an ISP, and I can tell you exactly what the problem is: most of the people doing L1 "support" for an ISP aren't techs, they're just every day, garden variety computer users with little, if any understanding of what's actually going on. All they can do is listen to the symptoms, guess which cheat-sheet for that particular set is appropriate and try it. If that doesn't work, they give up.

I remember, once, doing L2 support, where I got a caller who'd called in with the same difficulty four times and was finally escalated. The first tech had picked the wrong "resolution," and the next three had blindly followed the same wrong set of instructions without ever asking themselves why it would work this time. Clearly, they all suffered from the Bullwinkle syndrome. I, OTOH, looked at what had happened, realized that they'd gone off in the wrong direction and did something that not only was different, but was The Right Thing. In fact, what I did what what should always have been the L1 tech's first line of attack. (I went through the network settings and corrected them instead of removing and replacing Dial-Up Networking Yet Again.)

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2)

Jurily (900488) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201668)

3) Even if they didn't have "support" from microsoft, Dell was already handling some of the support for their XP machines, so it's not fair to say it's unsupported, just "unsupported by vendor"
How many critical security bugs has Dell fixed lately?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1, Redundant)

XenoPhage (242134) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201756)

How many critical security bugs has Dell fixed lately?
How is it that this comment is 5 minutes old and there's no witty response? Geez.. I thought this one was really open to abuse.. :)

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201730)

Speaking of "reverse engineering", people seem to be forgetting that Dell /already has/ Windows XP source code and can do patching and support themselves.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (3, Insightful)

ckaminski (82854) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201794)

They aren't required to support anything, except what you've paid them to support, and sometimes the contract/license terms don't even require that.

It's the whole reason the Linux/BSD market took off. NO ONE can tell you you can't fix that version of Linux 1.0.18 if that's what you REALLY want to run.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201166)

It's what they're customers want. I can't roll out Ubuntu where I am because it doesn't support Outlook, at least in a fashion that I would consider stable. It's that simple. I don't want Vista when I get new machines, I want the operating system that I know is proven reliable.

Step out of your Linux bubble for a second and accept that XP is still in demand by a lot of businesses.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (0)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201228)

> Step out of your Linux bubble for a second and accept that
> XP is still in demand by a lot of businesses.

Maybe instead your business should step out of the Microsoft bubble?

They are the suppliers of your "demand" and they are pretty much saying "no", that's bad business from all ends of the spectrum.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (4, Insightful)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201290)

Good luck with that. Companies like to have someone to blame when the software stops working. With Linux you have no one to blame becuase (for most cases) you aren't paying anything for it, so you don't really have much leverage.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201484)

Out of curiosity, what do you think Microsoft would do if you blamed them when the ______ virus causes downtime or chkdsk corrupts your harddrive?
 
It drives me crazy when people bring up this point, especially when people are arguing for a soon-to-be unsupported OS like XP.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (4, Interesting)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201586)

Are you really that stupid? Try blaming MSFT when exchange crashes. you can't. The most you might get if you pay for it is help restoring the old data, and reinstalling the system.

Not only do you have to pay MSFT for software, you have to pay extra for the privilege of getting help when it fails.

Save your self some money, and only Pay Novell, Red Hat, Mandriva, etc for help when the software fails and get the software for free.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (3, Insightful)

growse (928427) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201610)

So pay for it then. Plenty of companies out there will take money off you for supporting linux.

In fact, if you pay for linux support, you're in a better position than if you pay for Microsoft support, as you have the resiliance of choice in the market. You don't like what Oracle are doing, pay Redhat instead. You don't like what Microsoft are doing? Tough.

I have always loved this argument (3, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201620)

I have always loved this argument for one simple reason. If you name and itemize the last 20 times something went wrong at your company, how many of them were something the vendor did wrong, or something the vendor had to fix for you? How many were end user issues, networking configuration nightmares of your own creation, configuration management that someone at your company messed up? Misapplied patches or patches you 'forgot' to apply?

In truth, support from the vendor does little for you UNLESS the system they supply is so fscking locked up that you can't do anything with it in the first place, and are FORCED to call for help because you can't do anything with it.

Where I work, we are slowly writing code to work around 'no longer supported' binary processes. If there is no 'community support' we just learn how to do it ourselves or write code we can understand to take its place.

When you want to point that finger of blame it still will take 4hours minimum to get the pointing done. In that time I will generally have already fixed the problem and be working the code to avoid any such occurance in the future.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Interesting)

Mikesch (31341) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201438)

Businesses don't run based on ideals, they run based on productivity. If applications like Open Office fail to open an Office document even 1% of the time then they're useless if that document is really something you need to open. Gimp still isn't a satisfactory replacement for Photoshop. Sound in flash still doesn't work correctly out of the box on Ubuntu systems, there's no mp3 support by default, nor does Quicktime really work. There's still not a decent movie player.

This doesn't even begin to take into account that most businesses I've come across use some kind of custom industry application. CAD applications, specialized accounting applications, lending an loan applications, guess what they're all written for? Windows. Linux still doesn't work for those customers.

If the Linux community wants to advance they're going to have to give up on some of their ideals and actually provide what people are looking for, which is a stable operating systems that run applications people actually want to use with a consistent look and feel everywhere. I ran Ubuntu for over a year and reverted to XP because I couldn't deal with the slowdowns for no reason, application crashes, incompatibilities, mystery feature additions and removals based on the whims of the developers (what's pigeon going to include or disable this week!), and decisions that were made purely for philosophical reasons (no mp3 support by default? please.)

Most of my machines still run some kind of Unix (mostly FreeBSD and OSX) but when I need Windows, I really need Windows and nothing else will do.

Besides, Outlook is still the best email/productivity/calendaring application out there. Nothing I've seen on UNIX even comes close, especially when I need to share data with others.

And just because XP will be end of lifed, the security updates for it will continue for a few years, which is all anyone really needs. If 75% of the market is still on XP, developers aren't going to move to being Vista only any time soon because it'd kill their sales.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Insightful)

mhall119 (1035984) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201614)

If applications like Open Office fail to open an Office document even 1% of the time then they're useless if that document is really something you need to open. Gimp still isn't a satisfactory replacement for Photoshop. Sound in flash still doesn't work correctly out of the box on Ubuntu systems, there's no mp3 support by default, nor does Quicktime really work. There's still not a decent movie player.
Your OpenOffice point is valid, and a serious concern to most businesses. Your Gimp point is only valid to select groups that need Photoshop, who would ideally be using Macs by now anyway. But the rest of your points here are largely a non-issue from a business perspective. No sound on flash? Can't want movies at your desk? Unless you're in a specialized industry where those tasks are part of your job, you probably can't do that anyway.

If the Linux community wants to advance they're going to have to give up on some of their ideals and actually provide what people are looking for, which is a stable operating systems that run applications people actually want to use with a consistent look and feel everywhere.
Unfortunately, beyond advocacy, there is little the Linux community can do to bring proprietary applications to Linux. As for consistent L&F, all GTK apps mostly look the same, and all QT apps mostly look the same. Compare that to Windows where the latest MS Office and IE don't look anything like the rest of XP, even coming form the same vendor. Obviously L&F fidelity isn't as big a requirement as you make it out to be.

Besides, Outlook is still the best email/productivity/calendaring application out there. Nothing I've seen on UNIX even comes close, especially when I need to share data with others.
I've found Evolution to be on-par with Outlook in terms of features. The only think Outlook does better is Exchange integration. Evolution generally has better LDAP and CalDAV integration.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201622)

Businesses don't run based on ideals, they run based on productivity. If applications like Open Office fail to open an Office document even 1% of the time then they're useless if that document is really something you need to open.
So, the time that Powerpoint refused to open a .ppt file on my bosses PC, but OpenOffice on my Linux desktop could open it makes MS Office useless?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201714)

I've lost track (mostly during the mid to late 90s) of the times I've had to use a Mac to read and resave a PC formatted MS Office document so the stupid PC could read its own damn file. Not so much anymore, but your point is still pretty valid.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201460)

I do like and use Linux.
But there are just some programs that you can not get on Linux yet. Some of those programs you may absolutely need to run your business.
And before you say the classic dumb answer of just pay for someone to write it for Linux and open source it or do it yourself. Not everybody has the time, talent, or money to write code or start a FOSS project.
Not to mention that you may need it TODAY.
Oh and Wine just isn't that good yet.
I sure wouldn't run Solidworks under Wine.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (-1, Redundant)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201296)

Why do you need outlook?

If it's for Exchange support, there are a couple of Linux projects which at least claim to support that.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Insightful)

edremy (36408) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201426)

Umm, because Outlook (especially calendaring) is *the* critical app for many businesses?

Sure, I'll replace the most important app for 1000 people with " couple of Linux projects which at least claim to support that."

You'll pick up my mortgage and other expenses when I get canned, right? Please be slightly realistic in the Linux fanaticism.

Outlook? You must be crazy. (-1, Troll)

willeyhill (1277478) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201638)

KDE's got better for what people actually use. Outlook had something to offer nine years ago but it's been outclassed big time since. The only thing Outlook really had going for it was device sync but most people gave up PDAs when M$ conquered the market. The things were an expensive toy and people did not buy new ones when their old ones got broken. KDE's Kontact supports most of them now and KDE 4 promises even better sync for the few people left who actually use these devices. For the rest, KDE kicks ass with rational file formats and excellent GUIs. The next time one of your people hits Outlook's arbitrary database size limit and loses everything remember that KDE would have kept going.

Re:Outlook? You must be crazy. (3, Funny)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201810)

KDE's got better for what people actually use. Outlook had something to offer nine years ago but it's been outclassed big time since. The only thing Outlook really had going for it was device sync but most people gave up PDAs when M$ conquered the market. The things were an expensive toy and people did not buy new ones when their old ones got broken.

Just...wow. How can you even try to have a reasonable discussion with someone like this ?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

mhall119 (1035984) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201642)

Sure, I'll replace the most important app for 1000 people with " couple of Linux projects which at least claim to support that."
Those "couple of Linux projects" were for interfacing with Exchange. If you just want messaging and calendaring, not specifically Exchange integration, then there are plenty of very good Linux clients you can choose from. You can even get Lotus Notes as a native Linux app these days.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

cbart387 (1192883) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201560)

Lightning [mozilla.org] works for sending invites for meetings. It's an add-on to thunderbird for email-related calendaring. For example, last summer at my part time job I was able to receive and send meeting requests from my boss who uses outlook. There's also sunbird [mozilla.org] , which is more heavy-weight then lightning. Sunbird's a standalone calendar app.

I'm not sure how well they do with exchange, but they are able to work with Apple's iCal, since they both use the same file format. It's a shame that Windows has such a dominance. There'd be so many other options if it didn't have to be a Microsoft solution. :/

Oh, and I should note that lightning improved greatly from Spring 2007 to the summer. Before then, it was really not helpful. Being able to receive/send invites makes it usable for people who only occasionally need to set up meetings. They may not be there yet, but Lightning and Sunbird are worthy of watching. They seem to be constantly improving. It's especially nice having the same basic interface when switching between Windows, Linux etc.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

Ortega-Starfire (930563) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201606)

Name them please, if you would be so kind.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201860)

I have yet to see anything open source that comes close to the reliability and uptime of Outlook-Exchange. Believe me, I despise Exchange, it's a behemoth that, when it works, you can kind of forget about, but when it doesn't, it's the worst kind of nightmare. I dislike Outlook even more, but if I'm going to go to my manager and say "I want to replace Outlook and/or Exchange with this open source software" it had better work as reliably, because the bigger aspect is going to be retraining. Thus far, my experience with open source scheduler software is that it's the shits.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

kabocox (199019) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201862)

If it's for Exchange support, there are a couple of Linux projects which at least claim to support that.

I can claim to be God. It doesn't mean that I am.

Just because a random Linux project claims to support Exchange doesn't mean that they'll actually have what we consider Exchange support when we need it. Do you have a 100% complete drop in replacement/compatible with Exchange? If not, it's not viable for many people, right now or even for the next say six months. Heck, folks delay upgrading exchange because it's sometimes a nightmare. Do you really think they'll switch products if they aren't 100% sure that their data will convert over in perfectly usable fashion?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201678)

I want the operating system that I know is proven reliable.
So you aren't looking to keep using XP then, eh?

(sorry, I couldn't help it...)

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Informative)

gx5000 (863863) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201220)

LOL, irresponsible ? support ? who still needs Xp support ?!
Here in the Gov 'o' Canada we are just starting to migrate to XP.
A lot of US Defense is just migrating to XP as well...
We have our own Support staff, and any user that chooses XP over
"supported" Vista obviously has a support route or has abandoned
the parachute knowingly. Remember that this is "By request".

PS: I'll have the porterhouse

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201398)

Everybody needs support for XP that is still using it.
Support in this case doesn't mean "How do I find the Internet?".
The support he is talking about is for things like drivers, and security patches. So yea everybody does need support.
Of course Microsoft isn't cutting off security updates for XP anytime soon.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201748)

A lot of US Defense is just migrating to XP as well...
Not true at all. The US DoD has been using XP for ages and has even recently released the official drop-dead date, when we have to all switch to Vista.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (5, Informative)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201242)

At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
?
XP has support into 2014. Wiki. [wikipedia.org]

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Informative)

andy9701 (112808) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201246)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?


It's my understanding that the only thing changing as of June 30 is that Microsoft is going to stop selling XP. XP will be supported until something like 2014, IIRC.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201284)

June 30th this year is the cutoff date for new OEM sales, not the EOL of support for Windows XP. That'll be somewhere around 2012.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Insightful)

WinPimp2K (301497) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201304)

"why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings instead?"

Maybe because they are going with XP Pro? The OS that Dell's business customers are already using and still demanding? The OS that Dell obediently stopped offering back when MSFTs product rollout originally demanded that Vista go on all new machines more than a year ago. The OS that Dell started putting back on new machines as soon as it was discovered that Vista BROKE "mission critical" business applications left and right.

Maybe Ubuntu is no more capable of handling those same mission critical applications that Vista. Is it's Dell's reponsibility to guarantee that Ubuntu is going to seamlessly slot into any and all of their business customer's IT infrastructure and run the myriads of customized internal and thrid party apps run by those customers?

Why the heck would Dell put a "kick me" sign right over their corporate cojones by offering another useless OS to their business customers after having already been on the steel toed receiving end of the backlash over Vista?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

garett_spencley (193892) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201308)

There is simply no reason for Dell to be offering XP other than their customers are demanding it. I'm sure Dell will include some sort of disclaimer regarding the product being un-supported.

They could redirect customers to the Ubuntu offerings but if customers are asking for XP then it's a no-brainer for Dell.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201344)

It's not after the cut-off date for security fixes, it's after the cut-off date MS has set for sales of XP. Just a few days ago SP3 was released, and security updates will be created for a long time still.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201360)

1. The cut off date is for sales from large OEMs for Desktops systems. XP will still be available for small notebooks like the EEE and from small PC builders.
2. The cut off date isn't for support.
3. Microsoft says that it's customers don't want XP and are all happy with Vista... Well maybe this will be a nice wakeup call.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (0, Flamebait)

weicco (645927) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201462)

Why is Slashdot crowd concerned how long Microsoft is selling and/or supporting Windows XP all the sudden? I thougth it is common understanding here that Vista sucks and is bringing MS down to bankcruptcy or whatever. So why shouldn't stop selling XPs, in your point of view?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

niceone (992278) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201492)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible.

This isn't really dell being irresponsible - this is sanctioned by Microsoft. Both the Vista Ultimate and Business licenses give you the right to 'downgrade' to XP Pro. Dell are just helping their customers out with the mechanics of doing the downgrade.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201562)

If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings [dell.com] instead?

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
Because no one wants Ubuntu, they want XP.

Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. Dell sells Ubuntu, but it is still a niche, and suggesting that Dell just drop XP altogether to try and force people to use Ubuntu for... no good reason makes little sense.

In other news, I wonder if this will force Microsoft to continue to support WinXP. It's pretty well known that Dell has a lot of pull with Redmond -- it's said that their objections about the "No XP for YOU!" nonsense that Microsoft tried when Vista came out is one of the major reasons Microsoft backed down, wonder if this will change much.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

penguin_dance (536599) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201566)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

What support are they going to need? It's not like MS is going to turn off the "update" link altogether. Even though *official* support is supposed to be long gone, I believe they still post major bug or vulnerability fixes for Windows 2000.

XP, like 2000 is pretty much "stable" so unless you're going to upgrade to a software that doesn't work on XP, they don't need to upgrade. And most companies don't really need to upgrade past what they have now. So when they buy a new computer, they're going to want to have everyone on the same OS. Where I'm working they're still on Win2000, Office 2000 and IE6. Missing a few bells and whistles, but it works just fine.

A business switching to Linux is going to go with Red Hat or some distro with years under it's belt. Ubuntu is the hot thing now, but will it have longevity? That and businesses are not going to be able to rely on "community" support. They're going to need techs well-versed in Linux, either on-site or available for emergencies.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201584)

It's only responsible if they mislead their customers about it.

If you buy some gasoline and severely burn yourself, is your first response to blame the gas station?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201708)

Make that irresponsible.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201644)

If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings instead?
Perhaps, because what people want is not to change their OS. So why would you send them to, yet another OS, when they can keep working with the one they are used to?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201752)

When did Cannonical stop supporting Ubuntu?

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (2, Insightful)

kabocox (199019) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201784)

Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

Considering all the business and home people that would like XP Professional rather than Ubuntu. I'd say this a great business decision for Dell.

Re:Ubuntu Instead? (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201878)

The end of the sales for XP does not mean the end of support so they won't be selling something unsupported and even if MS quit supporting it tomorrow then Dell would still provide support.

Besides the fact MS already plans on selling XP home for some time (to cover the laptop market) means they're not going to give up XP support until at least they quit selling that.

Dell HQ Suddenly Flooded (1)

Skeetskeetskeet (906997) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201086)

With a hailstorm of chairs.

People still BUY Windows? (0, Flamebait)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201100)

Don't people just rip a copy off and install it ?

Re:People still BUY Windows? (2, Informative)

yincrash (854885) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201152)

Sorry, not everybody is a pirate.

Re:People still BUY Windows? (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201664)

Oh, yeah, me neither. *wink*

Re:People still BUY Windows? (1)

FinchWorld (845331) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201158)

Average Joe just goes to a shop and pays the microsoft tax as he buys his computer normally.

Re:People still BUY Windows? (1)

tattood (855883) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201260)

Most (large) corporate businesses probably have a site license for XP and they usually have premade images for their machines too. So as far as businesses are concerned, who cares what OS is preinstalled, since they are going to image it as soon as they get it anyway?

Re:People still BUY Windows? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201490)

I've always wondered this myself. I suppose the best explanation would be that most people who go down to Wal-Mart in order to purchase an operating system don't know any better. It's kind of sad, really.

Submitter diversity (5, Informative)

peipas (809350) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201108)

I couldn't help but notice that the submitter, a commercial entity, currently has four articles on the front page.

Re:Submitter diversity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201204)

Yeah, Slashdot has been garbage like this lately. That, and they just steal links from ArsTechnica.

Re:Submitter diversity (4, Funny)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201232)

Don't worry, it's just Roland, he forgot he was logged in under his boyfriend's account.

Re:Submitter diversity (2, Interesting)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201596)

They seem to be submitting a lot, but in support of their consultancy business, instead of their blog (Roland) or the EFF (the IP guy). I notice that they have a message on there for Slashdot users if you visit the site that says they're regular readers or something.

I dunno, a few of their stories were pretty well linked, so I don't personally mind too much if it gets us better articles (and not Roland-style spam, where all submissions go to his blog, or Beatles keyword stuffing).

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201722)

You may have noticed ho many entries the submitter "I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property" gets too.
Obviously, IDBIIP is one of the editors sock-puppets.
Slashdot really is worthless now, but it is my RSS feeds.

Re:Submitter diversity (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201728)

I couldn't help but notice that the submitter, a commercial entity, currently has four articles on the front page.
I first noticed it yesterday. I've submitted several ask slashdots and articles and was shot down each and every time and yet a web consultancy gets four articles up? Hmmmmmmmmm. Dionysus, God of Marketing.

Re:Submitter diversity (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201808)

also, his website looks terrible, boring, and the completely unrelated 1996 3d graphics make me sad inside.

Which Scares M$ the Most? (1)

Apple Acolyte (517892) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201114)

Linux, Mac OS X, or Windows XP?

Re:Which Scares M$ the Most? (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201222)

BeOS

Re:Which Scares M$ the Most? (3, Funny)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201330)

I'm going to go with the hidden 4th option - people who post on Slashdot with that clever little "M$" thing.

I know it gives me the willies just thinking about them.

Re:Which Scares M$ the Most? (1)

garett_spencley (193892) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201376)

MS's biggest competitor has always been the previous versions of their products.

I remember about 10 - 15 years ago when people would whine about how bad Windows 9x/ME was people would respond with "MS *has* to make those products crummy otherwise why would you upgrade ?"

It does make sense when you have a monopoly. Now that MS actually has made a product that people actually enjoy and they have further competition from a growing Apple and, to a lesser extent, Linux they're in a sticky situation. They need to actually focus on making a high-quality product that satisfies their users needs and demands. What I don't get is how they "got it" with 2K / XP (and for those saying how bad XP was compared to 2K just think about going from 9x/ME to XP) but they completely dropped the ball with Vista. It's a little funny, actually. Like they were going back in time to try their original strategy as if it was going to somehow work with XP and OSX to compete with.

Re:Which Scares M$ the Most? (-1, Troll)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201384)

Linux of course. There are at least 2 billion Linux devices out there, vs about 600 million Windows device.

In the desktop market segment, MS is still leading, but Linux already sells more desktops and notebooks than Apple and keeps growing hand over fist.

Re:Which Scares M$ the Most? (2, Insightful)

BlowHole666 (1152399) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201546)

Umm i will assume you are trying to be funny because you do not provide any references to back up your claim of 2 billion Linux devices vs about 600 million Windows devices.

Re:This is the great Wizard behind the Curtain... (1)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201580)

Everyone that use to slap XP around are now among the group of anti-Vista people that are making XP into a legendary OS.

The weird part, this is a win/win for Microsoft. (Ever hear of Classic Coke?)

So do you really think MS cares? If they cared, the WPF/desktop search and other 'user' level aspects of Vista would never have been back ported to XP. The only things not available on XP from Vista is the architectural changes that includes the WDDM that handles GPU virtualization and GPU multi-tasking at the OS level that DirectX 10 requires, because future games will expect the OS to handle this for them when they release a TRUE DirectX10 only incarnation.

I personally think from an OS Engineer viewpoint, that Vista is a Superior OS in virtually every measure, but hey if the world wants to rally around XP, to the point even the anti-MS OSS world rallys around XP (like I see today on Slashdot again), then so be it, maybe some of the anti-MS crowd will give XP a second look and realize it is nothing like Win9x when they left the Windows world and moved to a *nix.

Slashdot news - making money for Microsoft by hating Microsoft. This is so freaking weird that I wonder if this side effect is shocking to even Apple's marketing con artists, as they have been a part of making this happen by accident as well.

Why do you all beg? (0)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201116)

Could a fervent Microsoft Windows user please explain what drivers them to beg their vendor for features and support for products which they have paid, and in different ways, continue to pay for? is it just a state of mind? I don't fully understand it.

It is MS that is begging (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201544)

They are begging XP/2003 users to see Vista as a compelling upgrade. And we don't. Because it isn't.

As far as XP/2003 users, most of us never have to beg. These operating systems have been reliably running our apps forever. Most people never have to beg MS for anything. We simply want windows updates and vendors to be able to keep selling the operating system we find perfectly acceptable.

If ubuntu or whatever got the app support that windows has, people would be willing to migrate. Until that happens people will be perfectly happy to run XP/2003 until MS gives us a truly compelling upgrade. Contrary to many of the more zealous, MS does not lead us like cattle.

Re:Why do you all beg? (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201742)

You aren't making much sense. First, Microsoft will support XP through 2014, so there's nothing to worry about there. Second, I don't continue to pay a dime for my OS, so I'm not sure what you're referring to there. I use regularly two computer with Ubuntu and two with Vista because Windows supports things that Linux can't. When I want to play Galactic Civilizations 2 or Medieval: Total War, I want it to work. With Wine, the new lines are all wrong and it'll randomly crash for no reason.

Also, Windows just works. Most people are familiar with windows, and there are far more people who know windows and get confused by linux than vice versa. My wife won't do anything more than start firefox on my ubuntu desktop, but she can troubleshoot problem in windows just fine. Never underestimate familiarity and the large difference in preference for small difference in ability.

better idea (0, Flamebait)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201138)

They'd be better off just rewriting all the stuff that's old and sucks in XP and leaving everything else like the basic design and functionality and call it XP2 instead of just extending XP. Then at least they could make some money. Or they should just give up except then people would probably be dumb enough to use macs instead of Linux and I think we all know that would be worse than anything Microsoft could ever put out.

Why do people still want this OS? (2, Funny)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201316)

I've been a Vista user for over a year now, and am somewhat satisfied with the OS. Compared to XP it is worlds above in both stability and usability. It almost even comes close to KDE for a decent UI.

What are the reasons people want to stay with XP?? As it is, I manage 1200 users, and we are happily switching all to Vista (as well as SLED) as we roll out new machines. (This is approximately 400/year.)

Re:Why do people still want this OS? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201378)

better question is...what are the reasons people want to switch FROM XP?

From an administrators standpoint, Vista offers NOTHING to our users that XP doesnt already. Vista (and office 2007 ftm)is a bloated pos requiring everyone to upgrade their computers to use it. So the OS should be the driver of new hardware? GIVE ME A BREAK!

I'll be keeping XP on my computers until the "next" windows OS shows up that actually gives me a reason to change, or they pry it out of my cold dead hands...

Re:Why do people still want this OS? (1)

INeededALogin (771371) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201516)

Compared to XP it is worlds above in both stability and usability

if usability equates to be pestered to all hell by its annoying account permissions, then yes, it is better than XP. Vista is slow due to bloat and people are generally impatient.

Vista (Not Responding) (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201536)

I have 2 Vista laptops (1 from Dell, 1 from Lenovo; bought with Vista B & HP installed).
Both laptops suffer from the constant (Not Responding) bug.

Simply put you will be working away and suddenly your App (any App) will go into (Not Responding) for 5-30 seconds. Then it mysteriously comes out of that state and you can do work again ... until the next time.

Don't give me that "drivers" BS. The drivers are up to date.

The Green Bar of Death is another wonder to behold.

Finally, after having the V-Bus laptop for a little over a year. Explorer.exe stopped showing me the contents of folders.
Remember when you used to have to re-install Windows about once every 18 months? That pretty much stopped when Win2k came out. Well, it appears to be back.

PS:
Since drivers were mentioned. WTF is with changing the printer drivers model? Has printing changed drastically in the last few years? Can I print in 3D holograms now?
Look if driver models need to be changed due to technical advances, I am all for it. But if I am working with the same technology we had sussed out 20 years ago (or at least 15), leave it the fuck alone. Especially when HP refuses to update their drivers.
Christ, at worst write an emulation layer. All I am doing is putting dots on a piece of paper.

Re:Vista (Not Responding) (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201792)

Interesting - don't know if any of my systems have encountered this.

Wait - I did yesterday on my openSUSE laptop running Firefox 3b2 (along with KNode, KMail, Amarok, and VMWare with XP running O2k3, AutoCAD 2005, and Visio).

Oops - that's not vista.

Re:Why do people still want this OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201774)

I manage 1200 users, and we are happily switching all to Vista (as well as SLED) as we roll out new machines.

You forgot your smiley face.

Re:Why do people still want this OS? (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201796)

"as we roll out new machines. "

That's why. Why should we purchase new behemoth machines just to run an OS? Compared to XP, vista is a sloth.

Figure it out... (1)

microcentillion (942039) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201326)

It's awesome to see a vendor giving M$ the finger, it should give the M$ top dawgs a bit to chew on. Vista is turning out to be the ME of the new tech generation, and figuring out that not all their customers are going to take the new OSs immediately after their release should teach them to pay attention to what people really want. Microsoft OSs are not iPods, but it sounds like they base their strategies around retarded customer demand. (iProduct?) As far as Dell's deal goes, Is this going to effect the price of their Vista Machines? And if you decide to reimage to XP, do you get to keep your Vista License? It sounds like Dell might be using this as a chance to pocket a bit more off supply/demand...

Wow (1, Interesting)

Lally Singh (3427) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201404)

Don't people get tired of the same Anti-MS ranting and Linux Fanboyism? It's been 10 years for me on /., and frankly, I expected some better discussion. Yeah, I must be new here.

Despite that, let's talk about taking advantage of the situation, beyond the opportunities for mockery.

So, here's some discussion questions:

1. Whatever one's opinions/philosophy on XP/Windows, it's getting old. With Vista receiving such a poor welcoming, what would cause people to move to other systems?

More specifically, what do people need that other OSs don't supply well enough?

Exchange comes to mind. What else?

The intent is to build a To-Do list for global desktop domination :-)

2. Would it be preferable to push people to a specific OS (Linux, MacOS, etc), or to make the specific OS less relevant? If there were easily available, high-quality, drop-in replacements for applications that keep people on Windows, is it better to let people make their own preferential choices on OS?

Here, my intent is to discuss a movement to attack Windows on all fronts simultaneously. Instead of putting all our eggs in a Linux or Mac basket, how about a basket-independent egg that fits wherever?

Some people should really be on a solid Unix (Linux/Solaris) workstation, others on a Mac, and others with essentially an oversized PDA.

Sadly, this may involve some Java.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23201576)

I hope you know that OSX is basically a Unix workstation with more cruft. Also, what about the open source philosophy on the Linux vs Windows vs OSX front? Instead of waiting years for Apple to release a fix/feature or waiting for Redmond to fix the performance in Vista, users could change things themselves. I know, I know, not every user is a programmer, but it's MUCH better than the alternative.

Activation? (3, Interesting)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201412)

One of the things I'm wondering about is whether a freshly-installed XP can be activated after the cut-off date.

Microsoft probably doesn't care... (1)

HouseOfMisterE (659953) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201416)

Microsoft probably doesn't care what OS Dell installs or ships, as long as it is a Microsoft Operating System. They will still make their money.

Good for Vista stats (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201510)

Computers purchased with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate past June 30 will come with a copy of XP Pro.

Sigh. This will probably make MS happy as it will boost the Vista sales stats - especially since the two Vista "versions" listed are the most expensive.

Re:Good for Vista stats (1)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201776)

After all, you need to buy one of the most expensive OSs so they can give you another license for free. You don't think they just give licenses away to everyone, right? So you buy an expensive license for an OS, and they "give" you one for free. Although, even if you can use it on a different system, some part of the contract probably says you're only allowed to install it in one system.

Still, would you get two licenses for the price of one? and is MS enforcing this?

Congrats. (1)

EddyPearson (901263) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201532)

Well done Dell, you just made a lot of money.

Next PC I buy, I'm going back to Dell (HP Screwed me recently on a repair).

XP longer (1)

omfglearntoplay (1163771) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201568)

We've told Dell we want XP longer... and I'm glad they are doing this. We'll skip Vista and wait for the next Windows... hopefully it will not suck.

XP MCE Anyone (3, Informative)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201640)

For the home user XP MCE is a far better deal cost-wise. It gives the most important feature of multi-processor support, while dropping the ability to join an Active Directory domain. A very fair trade-off for the home user.

So is Dell offering MCE as well still?

Good move, sure (1)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201736)

I get tickled by people saying, "I'm running Vista and it's just fine." As if millions of people are all hallucinating issues. People do the same with Linux. "My distro found all my hardware!" Congrats! Vista has enough issues that Microsoft itself is considering extending the life cycle. No, they're not doing this to piss you off. They're doing it because customers are pissed. If they do extend it, it will be a new course for Microsoft, actually doing something customer-centric. It's not wonder they're agonizing over it.

Windows ME all over again (3, Insightful)

brewstate (1018558) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201738)

Does anyone remember Windows ME? Did anyone "upgrade" to it. Vista seems mildly familiar with a whole lot more momentum. The major exception is MS realized it was a mistake and admitted it was a stop-gap between windows XP and 98.

If they won't sell it, we'll steal it. (2, Interesting)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 6 years ago | (#23201870)

I hope that Microsoft realizes that if they don't sell Windows XP, we'll steal it. And by "steal" I mean make fair use of a product not being sold. Copyright exists to protect commerce, not property rights. If someone refuses to sell a copyrighted work, a defense against copyright infringent is to point out that you're making non-commercial use of a work that is not being sold.
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