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The File-System Fallout of the Reiser Verdict

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the work-from-home dept.

Data Storage 605

perlow writes "Yesterday, the Open Source community took an emotional hit when veteran Linux programmer Hans Reiser was convicted of first degree murder in the suspicious disappearing of his wife, Nina. While I won't go into the details of the case, as this has been covered extensively in the press, I would like to talk a little bit about how this verdict will impact the technology in play for file system dominance in our favorite Open Source operating system, Linux."

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605 comments

Dear Windows Users... (3, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240618)

...Bill Gates strangles puppies & treads on the heads of kittens.

Please stop using NTFS.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (2, Funny)

rrkap (634128) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240668)

...Bill Gates strangles puppies & treads on the heads of kittens.


Please stop using NTFS.

But at least Bill Gates hasn't killed his wife.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (2, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240706)

Just wait 'til he writes his own filesystem... Then, Melinda watch out!

Re:Dear Windows Users... (4, Funny)

rrkap (634128) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240744)

He did. But the FAT file system has only succeeded in making others want to kill.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (0, Offtopic)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240870)

> Yesterday, the Open Source community took an emotional hit when veteran
> Linux programmer Hans Reiser was convicted of first degree murder in the
> suspicious disappearing of his wife, Nina.

In the Nerdly Devastation Rating System, this is somewhat worse than O.J. killing his wife, and the uncomfort level this gives you watching a Naked Gun Movie, but no way near as bad as William Shatner finding, or maybe "finding" his wife dead in the pool, when watching TOS.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240758)

He already did -- FAT. We just never heard about what happened to Bill's first wife.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240878)

No, he stole it from the same guy he bought MS-DOS from.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (2, Interesting)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240960)

No, he stole it from the same guy he bought MS-DOS from.
Nope. It's the other way around [wikipedia.org] . Paterson got FAT from Microsoft, which developed it for Microsoft Standalone BASIC.

Re:Dear Windows Users... (0, Offtopic)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241116)


        ___
      / \
--ww-(.)_(.)-ww--
                V

ReiserFS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240956)

For when you need to partition your wife.

stochastic deaths (1)

mkcmkc (197982) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241206)

Maybe not, but his acts in the software industry have probably caused many incremental deaths...

Re:Dear Windows Users... (0, Troll)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240676)

...Bill Gates strangles puppies & treads on the heads of kittens.

Please stop using NTFS.

Mod up! This is parent is informational and quite serious too!

Offtopic? WTF? (4, Insightful)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240982)

Morons with mod points; either that or Microsoft knee-jerk astroturfers.

For the learning-impaired at "news for nerds", the parent's point was that the only thing that should matter to you or me about Hans Reiser is the file system he designed and the programs he wrote, and then only if you use the damned things.

Did you throw away your Naked Gun [wikipedia.org] movies because OJ Simpeon killed those people?

The tabloid mentality that seems to have overtaken the entire world makes me sick. The file system's designer's personal life is none of my (or your) business.

On a lighter note, the parent was wrong. Bill Gates doesn't strangle puppies, he shoots them! [wikia.com] And he doesn't stomp kittens' heads, he huffs them. [uncyclopedia.org]

Re:Offtopic? WTF? (2, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241026)

For the learning-impaired at "news for nerds", the parent's point was that the only thing that should matter to you or me about Hans Reiser is the file system he designed and the programs he wrote, and then only if you use the damned things.

Actually, no. I really meant that Bill Gates strangles puppies & treads on the heads of kittens.

Re:Offtopic? WTF? (2, Insightful)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241080)

Did you throw away your Naked Gun [wikipedia.org] movies because OJ Simpeon [sic] killed those people?

The Naked Gun doesn't require maintenance. Code does, especially when it has several outstanding issues (show of hands, who here likes the quality of reiserfsck?) and how fast the kernel iterates.

Namesys is dead in the water, and reiserfs will go with it.

A different kind of file system? (4, Funny)

adnonsense (826530) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240632)

Will Hans suddenly develop an interest in cake-based file systems?

In ghetto slang cake == bitch and so, maybe (1)

JacobSphinx (1273386) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240704)

In ghetto slang cake == bitch, so maybe ;). At the very least he'll be interested in more closed up and defensive file systems.

Re:A different kind of file system? (2, Funny)

ttapper04 (955370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240710)

yes, but due to the crappy cake served in prison it will be running windows.

Re:A different kind of file system? (4, Funny)

kabloom (755503) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240730)

No. All he needs to do is

mkdir("tmp");
chroot("tmp");
chdir("..");

Re:A different kind of file system? (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240874)

No, cake-encapsulated file systems.

But... (4, Funny)

initialE (758110) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241054)

The cake is a lie. And seriously, everyone knows that Hans shot first, why is this article even news?

Re:A different kind of file system? (2, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241256)

First he will be bathed, then there will be cake.

Reiser FS is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240640)

The code may make its way into other projects, but the name and team are gone.

Re:Reiser FS is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240988)

So what! If Newton had killed his wife, would we have given up on Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics? There just as fundamental as what Reiser did.

Re:Reiser FS is dead (1)

Uncle Focker (1277658) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241228)

If Newton had killed his wife, would we have given up on Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics?
Spoiler: The Laws of Thermodynamics were not formulated by Newton. I think you mean the Laws of Motion.

Re:Reiser FS is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241268)

I've heard it's a really good design, some might even say a killer file system. I hereby name the new project KillerFS.
 

I'm hoping... (5, Interesting)

gowen (141411) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240644)

that maybe control of ReiserFS will now be in the hands of someone who is not a total cock... sorry, a wife-murdering total cock. Hans Reiser's ability ot play nice with others made you long for Theo de Raadt's sunny demeanor. Given that the code is Free, having it under the control of someone who is not a complete sociopath can't help but the increase uptake of the novel parts of the ReiserFS structure.

Re:I'm hoping... (0)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240832)

Hans Reiser's ability ot play nice with others made you long for Theo de Raadt's sunny demeanor.
This as to be both the most chilling, as well as the most insightful and informative comment on /. ever.

Re:I'm hoping... (2, Interesting)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240898)

Given that the code is Free, having it under the control of someone who is not a complete sociopath can't help but the increase uptake of the novel parts of the ReiserFS structure.

Given that the code is Free, it's always been under the control of anyone who wanted it. Since no one had stepped up to the plate before now, I'm betting against anyone doing so in the future.

Re:I'm hoping... (4, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241012)

> Since no one had stepped up to the plate before now, I'm betting against anyone doing so in the future.

This doesn't make sense. There's a clear reason why nobody stepped up before: Hans Reiser. The guy was clearly a bit of a nutbag, however competent he may be at designing filesystems, and I surely wouldn't have wanted to wage a very public and protracted battle with him over his pet project.

There are lots of projects that can use programmers and leadership. One that has nobody running it is a lot more attractive to take over than one where the original creator is going to be lurking hatefully in the background, looking for an opportunity to stab you in the back. (Figuratively; but perhaps in Reiser's case, literally.)

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241036)

I agree with some others here. ReiserFS itself is toast, but the code and concepts will migrate elsewhere. That's the beauty of open source, it can even survive murdering sociopathic developers.

I'm hoping we'll forget this now (5, Interesting)

arth1 (260657) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241212)

ReiserFS isn't even a has-been file system, it's an almost-was, and was never a real contender for a top filesystem, no matter how much some users loved it. It was, in reality, half dead by the time Reiser got arrested.

Why wasn't it taken seriously by everyone?
- When it encountered problems, it crashed spectacularly. You didn't just lose a file or a block of a file, you lost entire trees and could get metadata instead of file data and vice versa.
- It lacked basic tools, like "dump"/"restore" or "freeze".
- The fsck rebuild process was a security nightmare. A user could craft a file with data that would appear to the fsck process to be metadata, and take over the system after a reboot. In typical arrogance, the solution was "don't reboot, then".
- It didn't support streams or compatible metadata, thus no Mac sharing or SELinux. SELinux in particular is a requirement for many big corporations right now, and not supporting it means no buy.

And, yes, the arrogance of the maintainer played a part too. But even with a much nicer guy running the show, it would not have been a serious contender for the throne.

It's time we forget ReiserFS and move on.

Re:I'm hoping... (3, Interesting)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240936)

The guy who's been single-handedly maintaining Reiser4 for the past few months sounds pretty well-mannered from what I've seen.

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240944)

sorry, a wife-murdering total cock.

You don't find the fact that his wife had dated a confessed serial killer at all odd? (Not Reiser but the other guy that confessed to several murders)

He could of murdered his wife, but the situation is rather strange to begin with. Wouldn't be surprised if the wife showed up in Russia somewhere.

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241034)

"He could of murdered his wife, but the situation is rather strange to begin with. Wouldn't be surprised if the wife showed up in Russia somewhere."

Or maybe in Redmond.

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241094)

You don't find the fact that his wife had dated a confessed serial killer at all odd? (Not Reiser but the other guy that confessed to several murders)

Odd? Maybe. Relevant? No.

Re:I'm hoping... (4, Informative)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241122)

> You don't find the fact that his wife had dated a confessed serial killer at all odd?

Sturgeon has a bit of a credibility problem in that none of the eight people he's confessed to killing are, um, dead.

And it's "could have".

Re:I'm hoping... (2, Insightful)

dubl-u (51156) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241180)

You don't find the fact that his wife had dated a confessed serial killer at all odd? (Not Reiser but the other guy that confessed to several murders)
Neither the police nor the judge found the other guy's claims of murder sprees credible. Why should we?

Yeah, it's odd. Lots of things about this case were odd. But that's why we pay people to spend months and months sifting through these things, rather than deciding them via Slashdot.

Re:I'm hoping... (2, Interesting)

ajs (35943) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240972)

that maybe control of ReiserFS will now be in the hands of someone who is not a total ****
Well, I've never been exposed to his inter-personal issues, but in reading the article, the journalist involved seems to think that ReiserFS is dead. I'd be rather surprised if that were the case. It's an amazing filesystem, and as far as I knew a few years ago, the only one capable of scaling performance reasonably for extremely large directories.

Hopefully, it will simply be forked (if needed) and continue to be developed now that the original author is clearly not going to be around to maintain it... well, maybe he won't. He can appeal, of course, and as I understand it, it's a technical case that they have against him, so there's a stronger chance that an appeal could work than if there were direct evidence of his actions.

Re:I'm hoping... (2, Insightful)

Richard W.M. Jones (591125) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241178)

It's an amazing filesystem, and as far as I knew a few years ago, the only one capable of scaling performance reasonably for extremely large directories.

ext3 supports huge directories. Implementing a hash table to store directories entries instead of a linked list isn't exactly rocket science.

He can appeal, of course, and as I understand it, it's a technical case that they have against him, so there's a stronger chance that an appeal could work than if there were direct evidence of his actions.

I guess if his wife turns up in Russia he'll be set free fairly quickly. I don't rate the chances of an appeal at the moment though.

Rich.

Re:I'm hoping... (3, Funny)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240986)

The other issue I have with Hans is why didn't clean up the blood properly? You wouldn't see Dave Cutler making that sort of mistake. I think if someone can't clean up blood spatters properly, I wouldn't want them writing kernel mode code. It might have memory leaks.

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

smallfries (601545) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241168)

Maybe he believed in some sort of managed automatic blood-collection, in which case we certainly don't want his code in the kernel. Could lead to some sort of Singularity

Re:I'm hoping... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241074)

sorry, a wife-murdering total cock
He may have been convicted, but that's hardly been proven. They have no body, they have no murder weapon, and they have a perfectly viable alternate suspect: the BDSM-loving boyfriend who confessed to eight other murders.

Yet, strangely enough, that evidence wasn't allowed to be presented at the trial, as it might "prejudice the jury".

So he might be a total cock, but there's no actual evidence that he killed his wife. A lot of circumstantial evidence, but no direct conclusive evidence.

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241090)

Just because you go to prison for murder doesn't invalidate your copyrights, whether your code is proprietary or GPL or other license.

NinaFS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241186)

Maybe it should be renamed NinaFS, that'd show him...

Re:I'm hoping... (1)

Afecks (899057) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241240)

that maybe control of ReiserFS will now be in the hands of someone who is not a total cock
Well, that clearly rules you out.

Answer= (1)

ttapper04 (955370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240650)

It wont. Correct me if I missed something.

Re:Answer= (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240722)

you missed a " ' ".

Re:Answer= (2, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240796)

I don't think you missed anything. Without commenting on his guilt(or not) or mental state, it can be said and seen that in other F/OSS projects developers come and go. Obviously the original designer is always a bad thing to lose but that hardly means the demise of the project if others understand what the originator intended and implemented.

Re:Answer= (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241052)

It already has. For the most part, Reiser4 development has stopped. Now theoretically someone could step up and assume leadership, but no one has yet. But that someone could take reiserfs into a different direction that Reiser wanted. Good or bad, that remains to be seen.

Press coverage (1)

peipas (809350) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240674)

It has been covered extensively in the press, yet no links to this for me? Ugh, life is so hard.

Re:Press coverage (1)

BoredAtWorkWhatElse (936972) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240888)

It's still on /. front page [slashdot.org]

Oh well.... (1)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240690)

...I guess it's back to the drawing board with OJFS [wikipedia.org] then.

Re:Oh well.... (1)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240752)

...allegedly.

Re:Oh well.... (0)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241236)

Come on, you know wikipedia is unreliable! Didn't the mainstream media say so? You should link to the uncyclopedia [uncyclopedia.org] instead.

"Always remember: Drink apple juice, cause O.J. will kill you." ~ Oscar Wilde (quoted from the uncyclopedia).

And just so the mods mark me "overrated", "flamebait" or "troll" rather than "offtopic", I really shoud link to the uncyclopedia "UnNews" article [slashdot.org] on Hans Reiser:

Should ReiserFS be removed from Linux?
Eric S. Raymond: "It's bad public relations to have a murderous file system in the kernel. Though he is of course innocent until and only if proven guilty. We should replace it with iPodFS or the modern youth, with their Game Boy 360s and Grand Theft Zunes, won't bother with our tribe's finest POSIX-compliant work. Besides, my VA Software IPO money ran out. ."

Richard M. Stallman: "The Free Software Foundation's position on ReiserFS is that a GPLed file system is for the good of the user community and encourages others to licence superior file systems suitably. There are those who considered a file system built from a sordid tale of blood, adultery and financial misappropriation should have the 'taint' flag set, but for some reason they changed their minds when I offered to explain our position in song. ."

Linus Torvalds: "My name is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce "ReiserFS" as 'unsupported.' ."

Steve Ballmer: "I'm sorry, I couldn't hear your question over my own cackling glee at Linux developers being arrested for murder. ."

Simon Cowell: "That was terrible, I mean just awful. The end of the animal trade would leave more time to trap or beat to death kernel star wannabes. ."

[edit] The votes are in!
And Hans Reiser makes it through to the next level of FILESYSTEM IDOL! To be screened November 28th, 9am, at Alameda County Superior Court!

The same as it affected... (5, Insightful)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240696)


It will affect ReiserFS the same as it affected the company that wrote the NTFS file system was convicted of their crimes. (being a monopoly).

Or when the creator of Unix (and the C language) was convicted of their crimes (being a monopoly)

Or the same as it affected Union Carbide when they poisoned a whole town killing everyone. (the former president will be jailed for life if he ever sets foot in India).

The thing is.. Things are decided on their merits, and price, etc. Not on their creators. Otherwise, Walmart would be bankrupt!

Re:The same as it affected... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240828)

Otherwise, Walmart would be bankrupt!

Apart from money, they are.

Re:The same as it affected... (1)

JustinOpinion (1246824) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241170)

This is quite different from the case where a company loses a lawsuit, but otherwise continues business. The "danger" to ReiserFS isn't merely some loss of reputation or credibility. The real issue here is that founder and head of Namesys Inc. is now in prison. Worse, this person was also the lead technical contributor to the ReiserFS project.

So ReiserFS has lost both its organization head and its technical head. Most companies or projects would find it difficult to recover from that.

Ultimately, the code for ReiserFS is open, so others can continue working on it. But losing a key contributor is a blow to any software project--they possess a great amount of technical insight, which will take newcomers a long time to acquire. Moreover, ReiserFS was implementing many truly unique ideas that require contributors with both talent and vision to really make them happen.

The ReiserFS project has certainly lost a great deal of momentum here. It's not at all clear whether enough other people will step up to keep the project going.

The ReiserFS is now as dead as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240700)

...his former wife.

SuSE dropping it from their distro was the end.

Nobody wants to be associated in any way, form, shape or fashion with Hans Reiser anymore... well maybe except his new boyfriend in prison.

Re:The ReiserFS is now as dead as... (-1, Offtopic)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240834)

...his former wife. SuSE dropping it from their distro was the end. Nobody wants to be associated in any way, form, shape or fashion with Hans Reiser anymore... well maybe except his new boyfriend in prison.
I'm sure he'll be sucking the semen out of someone's prison cock the same way his filesystem sucked the reliability out of my hard drive. jfs, xfs, ext*, but please no reiserfs.

Re:The ReiserFS is now as dead as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241108)

as opposed to someone's church cock?

Re:The ReiserFS is now as dead as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240868)

So, it's as dead as Schroedinger's cat ?

Re:The ReiserFS is now as dead as... (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241028)

You have to wonder about the sexuality of rabidly homophobic straight guys who have an endless fascination with prison rape.

His FS murdered my data... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240714)

ReiserFS murdered my data long before he was found guilty of his wife's murder.

I like JFS now...

Article a bit one-sided? (2, Interesting)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240734)

Isn't it true that much of Reiser4 is already coded? Since Reiser is GPL 2, there is nothing to stop the remaining developers -- or anyone else -- from picking up the ball and running with it. Namesys hired at least 1 or 2 full-time developers other than Reiser, although my guess is that since their Web site [namesys.com] is currently down, there is probably nothing left of Namesys since Namesys is/was mostly Reiser, his (still missing, possibly deceased) wife Nina, and Reiser's father.

So, probably with no money, my guess is the hired hands won't continue work, but I am unable to speak for them.

Still, ReiserFS could continue without Hans, right?

Re:Article a bit one-sided? (5, Informative)

Traxxas (20074) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240926)

True, the other developer moved the code and patches to his server months ago when the namesys.com site went down.
Rieser 4 Patches and Programs [zelnet.ru]

According to the article they are still in active development. They got patches for the 2.6.25 kernel so somebody is still working over there.
Source Article [news.com]

Re:Article a bit one-sided? (1)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241078)

>Still, ReiserFS could continue without Hans, right?
There's no such thing as software without a developer.

Open source isn't some magical formula that makes software grow itself. There have to be people knowledgeable enough, and interested enough to work on it. Also, if the work is involved enough, there generally has to be someone paying them to work on it. Even in open source, core developers on big projects are usually paid for their work either directly or indirectly. It looks like the means of paying for ReiserFS development is gone.

Also, the high degree of quality in ReiserFS was due to... Reiser and his employees. A new crop of developers is a new roll of the dice, and there's no guarantee you will get software that is nearly as good.

ReiserFS sucked anyways (0, Troll)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240740)

Anybody who's worked with it will agree.

It's really great when it comes to irretrievably losing entire volumes of data. Not so great at anything else.

Hans Reiser: blowhard, murderer, and half-assed coder.

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (1)

Uncle Focker (1277658) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240902)

But...but... it's great when you are working with files only 1 KiB size! Oh wait, that's pretty useless to most people.

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (1)

Traxxas (20074) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240974)

Never had a problem with reiserfs and have been running it for many years, whereas my trials with xfs have been nothing but failure. If he is a half-assed coder why don't you write a better filesystem.

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (1)

Uncle Focker (1277658) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241124)

If he is a half-assed coder why don't you write a better filesystem.
Non sequitur. One doesn't have to be able to code a filesystem to criticize one.

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (2, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241130)

If he is a half-assed coder why don't you write a better filesystem.
Why is this form of rebuttal always trotted out? One's inability to do any better doesn't invalidate their original criticism. All those rejects on American Idol auditions are pretty half-assed singers and I can recognize that plainly (as can most people), but I'm certainly not going to claim I can do better because I know I suck as a singer.

Back to filesystems: thought it wasn't terribly common, I did have a ReiserFS filesystem throw up on me once a long time ago. Luckily I was just tinkering with a new distro at the time so there was no "real" data on it that was lost, but it could have been problematic. Althought not as "sexy" of a solution as many of the newer filesystems, I've had very good luck with plain old ext3 over the last few years.

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241022)

It's really great when it comes to irretrievably losing entire volumes of data. Not so great at anything else.

Just like the author's wife.

Well, I guess it is now officially a killer app!

Damn, because of Reiser, my filesystem died. And also his wife!

Re:ReiserFS sucked anyways (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241246)

It's good at losing entire partitions, true, but I prefer that kind of obviousness to the way ext4 silently loses a few bytes here and there.

Watch out! (-1, Offtopic)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240746)

Dont bend over to pick up the mouse, Hans!

So what? (2, Insightful)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240754)

All that's happened is that the primary developer has a lot more spare time on his hand to hack. I presume he'll be spending the rest of his life in prison; assuming he's allowed access to a computer, he can continue development on ReiserFS. And if the implementation is open source, any risk of Reiser sneaking in logic bombs as revenge will be mitigated by the many other eyes that will have access to the source. If he never writes another line of code to continue development of ReiserFS, then anyone else who wants to will be able to pick up the project and work on it. True, they won't have his original vision or technical brilliance, but that's not to say that the project must die with its creator. We wouldn't be able to advance very far at all technologically speaking if a project could not survive its originator.

Re:So what? (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240906)

Seriously... When you are going to fester in prison for the rest of your life, things like Linux and filesystems become a whole lot less important. And by that, I mean, his time is better spent manipulating a toothbrush into a shank and creating new mechanisms for not dropping the soap.

Please folks, some guidelines first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23240762)

please use the passive voice in your discussions about this article

if you need more space, feel free to rip the desk or chair out of your cube and hose the thing down until there's an inch or two of standing water for you to lie down in

remember, if the police are suspicious of you, your best bet is to use counterintelligence, and use it badly

when under suspicion of murder, buy some books on how to get away with murder

hire a criminal defense attorney prior to even calling your wife's cellphone to see if she's alive

Develop from Prison (4, Interesting)

Deflatamouse! (132424) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240788)

25 years of coding in prison might yield some significant product. You can put him away physically, but I think we should still let his brilliant mind to continue to benefit the society.

Re:Develop from Prison (5, Funny)

Applekid (993327) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240916)

Indeed. I look forward to PrisonFS, where you can hide cigs inside the hard drive and they just look like ordinary files, kernel modifications to allow for self-tattooing code (with needles of questionable sterility, of course), and a new kind of distributed computing system where workgroups of computers can form a sort of "gang" in which they bust caps in other competing computers that gain access to their LAN.

Re:Develop from Prison (4, Funny)

tgd (2822) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241270)

Imagine how he's going to feel when he realizes all the computers run Windows 2000.

One thing is for sure..... (1)

ez151 (835695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240798)

One thing is for sure, the fallout is gonna be murder! \rimshot \\ducks head and runs for cover

Good sience and inovations stands apart (2, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240814)

from the quirks of the inventor.

If this file system is superiour, then it should stand.

However naming the delete function 'Wife' would be lacking in class....

Re:Good sience and inovations stands apart (1)

Solandri (704621) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241282)

However naming the delete function 'Wife' would be lacking in class...
I always wondered why most Open Source projects had names based on cute (or not so cute) puns or acronyms, but Reiser's file system bore his own name. Even Linus didn't want to name his project after himself [wikipedia.org] . In light of the stories of Reiser's behavior I'm reading in the press and here, it would seem he had more ego than class.

Not a lot, really (4, Insightful)

Garridan (597129) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240882)

File systems are like programming languages and operating systems: inventing one is not only fun, but a common assignment during one's computer science education at a lot of universities. Therefore, there will always be more types of file systems around, than anybody would reasonably need. Reiser was a putz, and the benefit of his filesystem over the competition was always marginal. So, he's gone, and either somebody else will grab the torch and maintain his software, or it'll die and nobody will care.

Stupid Article (2, Interesting)

FranTaylor (164577) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240884)

Doesn't even mention XFS.

XFS (3, Insightful)

dieman (4814) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240920)

Its stable, its been widely used, has great performance, and can handle most 'large' filesystems. Its not a 'newcomer' to the kernel, either.

Nothin to do in prison (1)

hitchhikerjim (152744) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240984)

Seems like he's going to have a lot of time to write a lot of code now.

ZFS (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240992)

I can understand if people are not comfortable with using ReiserFS in light of what has happened. I never used it, so I cannot offer any opinions on whether it was any good

If people are looking for something different, why not ZFS [opensolaris.org] ?

Sure, I know that Sun's commitment to Open Source is inconsistent and potentially suspect, but ZFS looks to be an impressive piece of technology.

So, why not ZFS?

Re:ZFS (1)

el_chupanegre (1052384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241172)

So, why not ZFS?

Can't believe you're seriously asking this. At the moment, ZFS is not in the Linux kernel (which you would know if you RTFA), so you can't expect the larger enterprise distros (which is what the question is all about) to adopt it.

Since the license for ZFS is not compatible with GPLv2 (again RTFA) it's also very unlikely it will be in the near future. If it is ever is though, yeah that's a great choice.

However, these questions imply that we need to change and change quickly. Why? Just because some guy helped programme a good filesystem and then killed his wife doesn't suddenly mean we should all stop using it. That's an insult to everyone else who worked on the project.

Personally, I'll continue using ReiserFS and I think it's a shame that some distros will stop using it purely for reactionary reasons. I wouldn't stop using a distro just because it defaults to Reiser and still gives me the choice to change it.

What happened? (1)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 6 years ago | (#23240996)

Every time I read about this case, it sounded like the sort of thing that couldn't possibly end in a conviction.

They found no weapon, no body, no witnesses. In fact, last time I read about this case, there was no real solid evidence whatsoever. How could they possibly reach a conviction? Was new evidence introduced that I haven't heard of? Did his lawyers just suck?

I hope he appeals this, from all the news articles I read, it sounds like his case was the *definition* of "reasonable doubt."

Re:What happened? (2, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241068)

Only in the world of those raised on television lawyers does this sort of nonsense play out. In reality, there was physical evidence against Reiser. I have to say that in any one of those juror's positions, I would have voted for him to be found guilty. He's a bad guy. That he also developed an impressive file system doesn't mean that he's not a murdering sonofabitch. The two can live inside the same head.

Re:What happened? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241188)

People are convicted on strong circumstantial evidence all the time. The real world is not an episode of CSI.

And there was reasonable doubt, but Hans Reiser himself systematically demolished it all over the course of eleven days of testimony that was wholly not believable.

Re:What happened? (1)

Orion Blastar (457579) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241276)

Hans tried to represent himself, he used the "Geek" defense and it failed. He should have at least paid for a lawyer or used a public defender who would have advised him to STFU as he didn't know what he was talking about and only made his case look worse.

It is like Richard Dawkins trying to debate theology, or George W. Bush trying to pronounce words correctly, or Charles Mansion trying to run the NAACP, or Adolph Hitler trying to run a Jewish Temple. It just does not make sense, and they are better off letting someone else not them do the job.

Why not work from jail? (1)

pickyouupatnine (901260) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241014)

It should be possible to negotiate with the court system for him to continue his work from prison - should he wish to do so. Humanity can still benefit from him and he can still give back in a big way, despite his alleged crimes.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241084)

> the Open Source community took an emotional hit

News to me.

> I would like to talk a little bit about how this
> verdict will impact the technology in play for file
> system dominance

It won't.

Nobody in their right minds uses resiserfs for anything important. My impression from reading the namesys site after losing a working dataset to reiserfs back in 2002-2003 was this: a filesystem written for kooks by a kook.

ReiserFS was already dead before today (3, Interesting)

leet (1202001) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241136)

I used ReiserFS for years but it's already dead. I left it shortly after the trial began because it was already having stability problems. After some time it would deteriorate and eventually corrupt itself. Today's doesn't change the fact that ReiserFS hasn't seen much development in the last ~2 years.

I was sad when I found out he was on trial. I had one of his quotes on my cubicle wall from him about development when I found out about the arrest. Hans Reiser is a good developer. Apparently he's not a very good person.

Recent versions of ReiserFS have had stability and performance problems for some time and will die a normal open source death on merits.

Emotional hit? (1)

Fishbulb (32296) | more than 6 years ago | (#23241198)

We did? Really?

I didn't feel it [youtube.com] .

Linux is for murderers. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241252)

This story has shed a new light on the dangers of Linux. How many more people will die because some crazy open source developer decides to take out his frustration on someone nearby?

For the sake of your fellow man, anyone who uses Linux should dump it and switch to Apple computers running OS X. It has the added advantage of not sucking.

Free Hans! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23241254)

Free Hans! [freehans.org]
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