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Adobe Opens the FLV and SWF Formats

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the getting-with-the-program dept.

Graphics 262

Wolfcat writes to tell us that Adobe announced today that they are opening the SWF and FLV formats via the Open Screen Project. "The Open Screen Project is supported by technology leaders, including Adobe, ARM, Chunghwa Telecom, Cisco, Intel, LG Electronics Inc., Marvell, Motorola, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Qualcomm, Samsung Electronics Co., Sony Ericsson, Toshiba and Verizon Wireless, and leading content providers, including BBC, MTV Networks, and NBC Universal, who want to deliver rich Web and video experiences, live and on-demand across a variety of devices. The Open Screen Project is working to enable a consistent runtime environment — taking advantage of Adobe Flash Player and, in the future, Adobe AIR — that will remove barriers for developers and designers as they publish content and applications across desktops and consumer devices, including phones, mobile internet devices (MIDs), and set top boxes."

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Rob Malda adopts open toilet policy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261418)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john, a big beautiful all-American football hero type, about twenty five, came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and married -- and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with him.

As soon as he left, I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist. I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass and not an end in itself.

Of course I'd had jerkoff fantasies of devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't?), but I had never done it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's handsomest young stud.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking.

I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract? I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does. I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock, beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down with his piss. I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit. Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my hankercheif, and stashed them in my briefcase.

In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole -- not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone.

The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process. I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did,bring to a grateful shiteater.

Great (3, Informative)

suso (153703) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261424)

This problem doesn't mean opening the code for the player, but still, it will help projects like Gnash, etc.

Re:Great (2, Insightful)

BinaryOne (697044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261488)

This is good news.

For those of use who use flash (for instructional simulations) this means (hopefully) new tools and a chance to deal with the accessibility issues flash has.

While AS3 has improved accessibility classes, products like Articulate and Camtasia have been slow to enable them in their products.

Re:Apple's gonna write their own flash player? (1)

bhodikhan (894485) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261846)

In the list of "industry leaders" I noticed Apple missing. Is Apple going to be that stubborn with regard to Flash on their iPhone? For all it's faults Flash is damn near everywhere. Why the hell is Apple still snubbing Flash even with Adobe opening up the format? Perhaps Apple wants to write their own iPhone Flash player? Could you write your own player just because the format is open? Seems like a tough task.

Re:Apple's gonna write their own flash player? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261988)

why would they? at the moment for things like Ipod or Itouch, they use quicktime/mp4 just fine. Safari just uses the plug ins for flash as do all other OSs.

What do apple need 'flash' for?

Re:Apple's gonna write their own flash player? (2, Insightful)

nahdude812 (88157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262382)

They don't do this because it's a vector for non-Apple-approved applications to run on the iPhone. It's the same reason they refuse to allow Java to run on it. They want to control what people run on the phone so they can charge for services which free (speech/beer) software could enable for... well, for free (beer).

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23262360)

What accesibility issues? My advanced CS class at M.I.T. barely struggles with Flash at all!

Re:Great (2, Informative)

Mental Maelstrom (1268890) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261860)

Yes, it will help a lot. Using the Open Screen Project page, I just discovered a link to the SWF file format specification, version 9 [adobe.com] is available for download without having to accept any NDA [wikipedia.org] 's.

Re:Great (1)

LO0G (606364) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262356)

Yes you can download the spec for SWF, but nowhere in the spec did it discuss terms of use.

If I implement to their spec, are they going to sue me because of the patents that cover the SWF technology? They say it is available as an "open specification", but there's nothing that says if there are any restrictions on my use of the specification.

Do they have a covenant not to sue like the one that Sun has [oasis-open.org] , the one that IBM has [ibm.com] or even the one that Microsoft has [microsoft.com] ?

Re:Great (1)

WPIDalamar (122110) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262444)

That's the whole point of today's announcement. They've removed the restrictions.

You can make swf-creation tools.
You can make swf-playback tools (this was what wasn't allowed before)
And you can make swf related stuff not even thought of yet.

Re:Great (1)

twistedcubic (577194) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262104)

Since Gnash is a GNU high-priority project, this is a big boost. It will be nice to run an absolutely stable, crash-free Firefox once Gnash is complete.

Re:Great (1)

MoogMan (442253) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262222)

After a cursory glance, the [swf] specifications look pretty complete - they even give a sample "dissection" of a flash file, as well as a nice index of "opcodes" (tags) - should indeed be useful to the Gnash project.

The swf specifications do not seem to document ActionScript, however so it's not easy riding for the Gnash team (Gnash's ActionScript todo list [gnashdev.org] )

I wonder if this document will give raise to any security vulnerabilities?

A great big lot of nothing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23262398)


I'm anonymous because saying this could cost me my job: Basically Gnash has already throughly reverse engineered the FLV format, so now that Adobe has nothing more to lose ... they 'open' it.

Really this is just an attempt by Adobe to maintain a bit of control over the format that they'd lose if someone other than them had a good open source implementation.

So this will do very little positive for GNASH, while at the same time increasing the already common false notion that flash is actually open.

At the end of the day, even if Adobe opened everything they could (and didn't pull an OOXML), the video codecs that Flashs makes mandatory are throughly patented and the format will remain, likewise, throughly non-free. Same for the decent authoring tools.

So at the end of the day we're all suffer because an increasing part of the web is locked into a propritary format, that the public believes is really open due to Adobe's Orwellian doublespeak.

Re:A great big lot of nothing. (1)

WPIDalamar (122110) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262456)

Last I knew, Gnash didn't have any AVM2 support, so nothing taking advantage of the latest API's would work.

too little, too late (0, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261444)

Adobe needs to put the Flash player (as well as the Flash program itself) under the GPL license if they want to be relevant.

Say NO to Closed Source software.

Re:too little, too late (4, Insightful)

Jellybob (597204) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261476)

Let me translate that to the real world for you:

"I'd Adobe to put the Flash player (as well as the Flash program itself) under the GPL license. However, if they don't, they'll still have > 90% browser penetration, and be used by YouTube to deliver huge quantities of crap video to people."

Right now, in the age of streaming video, Flash is about as relevant as you can get.

Re:too little, too late (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261610)

[Flash] used by YouTube to deliver huge quantities of crap video to people

YouTube have recently added MPEG-4 support though (done for the iphone, I beleive) :

http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/04/download-youtube-videos-as-mp4-files.html [blogspot.com]

Flash player has added such support too (1)

PortHaven (242123) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261804)

So rather moot point

Re:too little, too late (2, Informative)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261904)

Actually VP6 and 7, Sorenson Spark are very high end codecs. Youtube's problem was (deliberately?) encoding video like junk with horrible settings and the original's horrible quality as it is ripped from TV (already compressed), low end DV camera without colour correction.

The big issue was the Sorenson and On2 being big time MS Lapdogs and never offering any real solution except Windows market. Truth to be said, they are not bad quality codecs. Check their reference pages (demos etc.) to see what they actually are.

In fact, current quality/bandwidth/multiplatform champion is Realvideo 10 and it is MPEG4 based too. Of course it is a bit hard to convince user to install it even while Real gives whole thing (except codecs) as open source. You know, history haunting.

Re:too little, too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261986)

The big issue was the Sorenson and On2 being big time MS Lapdogs and never offering any real solution except Windows market.
I think Sorenson had Quicktime compression tools (for win/osx)?

Re:too little, too late (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262092)

Yes, but they are archaic (Video 3). In fact, those junk codecs prevented Quicktime video to take off.

  I thought there would be Spark codec. Industry standard codecs always have at least a Quicktime Export plugin. Spark never had it.

People moving to H264 on Flash and it doesn't even make On2 guys to ship a VPC7 encoder plugin for Quicktime too.

When I hear "rich web experiences" (1)

Mateo_LeFou (859634) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262328)

When I hear "rich web experiences" nowadays, I generally run.

To me this phrase means no context menus (right-clicking), no "open in new tab" and other *totally normal browsing behavior, no retrieving information for local storage ..

In sum, it means the *one way of navving the site that designers anticipated will be nice and rich. Point, click, grunt..

Re:too little, too late (1)

elronxenu (117773) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261480)

Yes, then we'd be able to fix why it uses 100% CPU time most of the time.

Re:too little, too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261958)

Yes, then we'd be able to fix why it uses 100% CPU time most of the time.

Time to upgrade that P3?

Re:too little, too late (3, Insightful)

Viceroy Potatohead (954845) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261598)

I don't think that's necessary. It's the same thing with hardware, or MS formats or whatever. If a complete and accurate spec is available, the open source community can make their own player/driver/reader/writer or whatever.

Adobe may not be providing an open source player here, but they are giving the information needed for us to make one ourselves. Isn't that basically what we've been wanting from hardware manufacturers?

Also, this makes a Linux Flash writer possible. oOFlash? I really don't see anything to complain about here.

Re:too little, too late (2, Informative)

mjbkinx (800231) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262306)

Also, this makes a Linux Flash writer possible. oOFlash? I really don't see anything to complain about here.

I've been making SWFs on Linux for years. Swfmill [swfmill.org] is quite capable (the svn version has very good SVG support and works well with Inkscape), there is a fine language and compiler called haXe [haxe.org] that can even compile for other targets as well (the Neko [neko-vm.org] and generated Javascript, with PHP support [weblob.net] in the works), among other tools.

Also, the Flex SDK is already open [adobe.com] and works on Linux (it's Java). Finally, their (proprietary) Flexbuilder for Linux is currently a public alpha [adobe.com] .

Re:too little, too late (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261614)

Do you have the sourcecode for you machines BIOS? The firmware in the RAID controller of your servers?
etc.

Software RAID (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261740)

Do you have the sourcecode for you machines BIOS?
Some people do [wikipedia.org] .

The firmware in the RAID controller of your servers?
With software RAID 10, the firmware that performs the striping and mirroring is in the operating system's kernel, which is Free if you're using *BSD or *Linux. With hardware RAID 10, yes, you're usually limited to a single source of replacement controllers.

Re:Software RAID (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262246)

What about the BMC of the servers? The IPMI-Interface? The network card? The video cards bios?

Re:Software RAID (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262434)

The CPU microcode?

Why? (Re:too little, too late) (1)

Timothy Brownawell (627747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261654)

If the specs are open you can just write your own. At that point, why does it really matter what license their implementation has?

Re:too little, too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261662)

Adobe needs to put the Flash player (as well as the Flash program itself) under the GPL license if they want to be relevant.

Yeah right. Flash currently has 95% [zdnet.com] market pentration according to most estimates and isn't going anywwhere by the looks of it. They don't "need" open source players to stay relevant - They've been relevant for just about the last decade, as one of the most prominent tools for rich-media web application.

I think the release of tools like Silverlight and other competition has more to do with this release than anything else others might believe.

Re:too little, too late (1)

justthinkit (954982) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262258)

one of the most prominent tools for rich-media web application

To give Flash the dis-credit it deserves, why don't we call it indulgent-media, let-them-eat-cake-media, or artery-clogging media? Or at least put the word "filthy" in front of it.

Personally I prefer "baked-cake" media because:
(1) I can't see the URL of the link I am clicking
(2) I can't shift-click or middle-mouse click a link and have it open in a new window
(3) I can't get it to stop flashing at me
(4) I can't turn off images but still see the links & text
(5) And as previously posted, the filthy snob monopolizes my cpu whenever it wants to for no good reason.

Ok, one last try at a new name: "Paris Hilton" media (and I'd accept Paris-Rich Media).

Re:too little, too late (1)

InlawBiker (1124825) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262366)

I suggest this new technology for you: LYNX [isc.org] . If that's still too media-rich, you can lead the revolution in bringing us all back to Gopher.

Re:too little, too late (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261778)

Relevancy isn't determined by your personal taste.
It's determined by the fact that most browsers on this earth have it installed.
Flash already is relevant and there doesn't seem to be any realistic reason for it to become less relevant any time soon.

Relevant? (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261826)

I think you better check real World. I am telling as a person who had to convert (keeping originals) hundreds of Quicktime Mov files to Flash to give option to people who refuses to install anything to view videos. Of course I keep the original Quicktime Mpeg4 files on site.

Multimedia vendors need to make sure their application/plugin supports Flash (FLV) giving more performance, quality and additional options than original Flash player to stay relevant. It seems only Real Networks figured this fact with their Realplayer 11 which supports easy downloading of FLV content.

Too late for who? 1% of market? People actually started to ask Sony, Philips to add FLV video options for their high end/connected TVs. The big "iPhone no Flash" debate actually is "iPhone no Flash Youtube" debate, Apple paid a lot to Youtube to temporarily silence their consumers but yet iPhone flash would be hit. What kind of market you speak about?

I wished Apple, Real Networks, Microsoft and to some degree open source guys weren't that stupid and didn't make 1994's "Download huge embedded single file to act like streaming" FLV a de-facto standard and we were using UDP/RTSP/Bandwidth switching actual media plugins now but it didn't happen. Apple still puts that God damn blue icon to taskbar, pushes Safari to unsuspecting users, Microsoft still doesn't ship a God damn player to any OS rather than Windows and Real Networks still makes people afraid to install their player. On the other hand, Adobe Flash, 1.1 MB single click download for ALL OS. Enough said.

Re:too little, too late (1)

lena_10326 (1100441) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261828)

Say NO to Closed Source software.
Say no to zealotry.

Re:too little, too late (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261838)

Say NO to Closed Source software.
In all seriousness, doesn't this mean the same thing as saying NO to capitalism? Or am I missing the open source bandwag...errr boat and is there money to be made for Adobe to go open source?

Re:too little, too late (1)

stsp (979375) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261898)

Say NO to Closed Source software.
Right, but also say YES to good quality open specs (I don't know if the ones in question are good quality). In the long run, a good open spec for a file format is a much more useful to developers than an open source program that uses an otherwise undocumented file format. Having to look up magic numbers and offsets in other peoples' code all the time just plain sucks. The best you can do is writing up a spec based on examination of the code, and use that for your own development. This extra work is unnecessary if you have a spec in the first place.

Catch 22 for Adobe. (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262112)

Adobe needs to put the Flash player (as well as the Flash program itself) under the GPL license if they want to be relevant.



And sign their death sentence? Adobe depends on the sale of their software. It's fair enough opening the formats. I'm thinking that Adobe has realized that closed formats have no future in the web. It's catch 22: If they don't open the formats, they risk extinction. But if they do, they give their keys to the competition (including F/OSS) in a few years.

Re:too little, too late (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262214)

Err... Maybe you want to cut down on the mind-altering drugs before posting.

Is there any proprietary video delivery mechanism for the internet more popular than flash?

This announcement sound more unexpected than anything else.

Adobe should be applauded for making the formats open. I hope the license will be compatible so that open source versions such as gnash can benefit.

Defence agains silverlight? (3, Insightful)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261446)

I guess Adobe is doing this to try to stop silverlight getting too much attention.

Since Microsoft seems to want a new way of control of new web enabled devices with silverlight, I guess this is a good thing.
(And obviously this way gnash can implement better compatibility more easily!)

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261562)

Last time I heard that Microsoft will turn it's sites to work only with Silverlight to convert (force) almost all computer users (85%) to use it.

I have not seen any Silverlight sites than Microsoft's own... who needs it (silverlight I mean)?

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (2, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261606)

who needs it (silverlight I mean)?

Microsoft.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

sadgoblin (1269500) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261764)

They dont really need it... They still wonder why the heck they made it.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

superslacker87 (998043) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261954)

Hey, they still wonder the same thing about Vista!

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261790)

All baseball fans need silverlight... they've paid off mlb.com to prevent watching games without it (though some hackers came up with a python script to bypass that).

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23262132)

link? i was thinking about subscribing, until i saw the silverlight requirement. Also, whats the deal with moonlight

Actually, I think it's more pointed towards Apple (1)

PortHaven (242123) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261824)

I don't think Silverlight scares Adobe all that much. Microsoft has a habit of railroading themselves into their microplatforms (IIS, ASP, .NET, etc)

But Apple likes to lock down their platforms and control them. The iPhone is a good example. And mobile is the future for many things. So by doing this, it will be hard for Apple (or anyone else) to keep Flash from being in it's future.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

xgr3gx (1068984) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261956)

More like another nail in Silverlight's coffin.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262022)

Check http://www.earthbrowser.com/ [earthbrowser.com] . An application dates back to MacOS 9 days. Matt Giger, single author of it upgraded to version 3 and it runs on both Windows and OS X without a single glitch. It was originally a C application, it was converted to Adobe AIR and the day Linux has a stable Adobe AIR (soon I think), it is also automatically shipped to Linux/FreeBSD.

That is the opportunity Sun missed with their Webstart/Java. People and industry looks at results, not promises. You can ship a full feature commercial application RIGHT NOW using Adobe AIR Framework. Most of your customers (like me) will be amazed at the fact that it uses LESS CPU compared to "real" previous version.

If they don't make stupid mistakes, Adobe also has a full feature multimedia player/content downloader which also perfectly works both on Windows and OS X. It will be huge in couple of months.
http://www.adobe.com/products/mediaplayer/ [adobe.com] . It is -of course- possible thanks to Adobe AIR. Needless to say, it is also automatically shipped to Linux when Adobe Air for Linux stable ships.

What did Silverlight do except bribing to some known figures to promise outdated versions emulator or abusing the panic state of Nokia? Right, Nokia says they will ship Silverlight too but everyone who is experienced on handheld/PDA knows that just by shipping a framework, you don't guarantee people who will code for it or use it. Why would established Flash developer use it instead of using Flash Lite which will be in third generation soon?

I got Silverlight on my Virtual PC 7 running XP SP2. I almost felt sad for Microsoft, shipping as a "optional windows update" with a "KB" number? Sigh.

As a side, cautionary note, Silverlight adds a potential security issue to Mac OS X since it installs as User 502 which people always use as secondary, "non admin" account. Hope they fixed it. That is MS for you and no, I am not confusing it with MS Office 08 bug.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262278)

Check http://www.earthbrowser.com/ [earthbrowser.com] . An application dates back to MacOS 9 days. Matt Giger, single author of it upgraded to version 3 and it runs on both Windows and OS X without a single glitch. It was originally a C application, it was converted to Adobe AIR and the day Linux has a stable Adobe AIR (soon I think), it is also automatically shipped to Linux/FreeBSD.

I would, but their website requires Javascript. Is this some kind of joke? What year is this?

Maybe you could just tell those of us who won't visit them what it is.

Their webmaster is an idiot, by the way, because the javascript required page went into an endless loading loop. Just what he needs, everyone who visits his page to generate a bunch of spurious page loads that won't produce any revenue.

Re:Defence agains silverlight? (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262460)

Well, it seems everyone including Apple co-founder happily browsed that site and purchased their updates.

Anti Javascript etc. are so 90s if you ask me. Profile of your userbase matters. If you code an entire Application in Flash/Flex, you don't really CARE about bunch of lifeless idiots who tries to be different by turning off javascript on a legit site.

Turning off Javascript like things are basically non existent on OS X community and the Windows profile that kind of application serves to. Also, you would even call FBI about the webmaster since with a single click, you install Air Framework AND the Application same time. Oh the humanity! It should come as a tar.bz2 file, tar -xvzf to home directory and run as ./earthbrowser --display-gui I think!

hmm. (1)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261452)

this is not the same as open sourcing it.

i would guess this is more like attempting to gain market share at the same time as holding the family jewels close to the chest as it were.

still, its a step in the right direction to be sure.

Re:hmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261608)

this is not the same as open sourcing it.


Not required.

Once the specs are available, and there is permission to implement it, FOSS will independently implement anything worthwhile in quite short order.

http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html

Gnash is the #3 priority overall.

I thought SWF was open? (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261474)

I thought FLA was closed but SWF was open. And isn't FLV just a container format? Even if it is closed, everybody knows the format and theirs tools to read/write them (VLC player for example, plays them).

Either way, being open is really good. I know several game and media companies that use Flash now, and are strongly considering Silverlight because C# is nicer than Actionscript/Javascript, and Microsoft is oddly enough very open about their formats. Adobe needed to do this and make sure they were the "standard" before MS takes over.

ISO approval might be nice too.

ISO is irrelevant now (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261556)

They're a corrupt organization.

Re:I thought SWF was open? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261642)

Microsoft are Open... at the moment

Remember the 3 or 4 E's
    Embrace - Put Silverlight out there and 'give' it away so that the dominance of Flash is removed.
    Extend - the functionality but keep this 'closed'
    Extinguish - then Flas is sufficiently dead on the water, release a now closed version of Silverlight and say to themselves 'Gotcha'.
    Exterminate - all copetition. Make the Linux Version so horribly crippled with the new version that everone is using the practical chances of any year in the future becoming the 'year of the linux desktop' a total impossibility.

IMHO, its all part of the MS Master Plan for continued desktop domination. Frankly, any company that falls for their offer of 40 pieces of silver should suffer the same fate as SCO.

Re:I thought SWF was open? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261672)

What? I thought the sole reason Microsoft keeps dominating the desktop is because it has security holes put there on purpose so that CIA and FBI can easily access to your (and government's) data, and thus it's on the US government's interests that everybody uses it.

Re:I thought SWF was open? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23262260)

The SWF format has been open for a long time, in one sense: you were always allowed to make your own application that created or modified SWF files, but the licensing agreement said that you were not allowed to create your own application that played them back. So the spec was published, and you could make your own authoring tool, swf compiler, etc. to write swf files (and many people did, for example MTASC [mtasc.org] ) -- but you could not make a swf player tool that competed with Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash Player.

The intent of the new initiative, from what I can tell, is to further open the format so that you can now create your own player. I have seen complaints from Linux users that there is no player available for their specific flavor of Linux -- well, now you can make your own.

Re:I thought SWF was open? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262348)

I thought FLA was closed but SWF was open
Depends on what you mean by 'open.' It's open in the sense that anyone can download the specification for free, but in order to do so you needed to agree to a license which prevented you from writing a player - you could use the spec to write something that wrote SWF files, but not something that read them. From the press-release masquerading as a summary, it doesn't sound like this has changed.

Re:I thought SWF was open? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23262384)

Yes it has changed. Read the FAQ.

Nintendo Wii? (1)

insomniac8400 (590226) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261478)

Does this mean the Nintendo Wii will be able to work with all flash sites? That would be good.

Re:Nintendo Wii? (1)

Sulix (1154971) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261588)

No. The Wii already uses the official Flash Player; just an old version. When Adobe re-hires all of the x86 asm coders that they fired, then the Wii will get a new version.

Re:Nintendo Wii? (1)

bWareiWare.co.uk (660144) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261650)

Why the Wii is PowerPC based?

Re:Nintendo Wii? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261882)

Because PowerPC is better!

Re:Nintendo Wii? (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262418)

Two problems with this post:

1) The Wii does not use the official Flash player. It uses a player coded by the Opera folks, which uses the latest specs released by Adobe: specs which correspond to Flash 7.0. Releasing the specs for the latest version is still a Very Good Thing, of course, but it's Opera, not Adobe, who will be updating the Wii player.

2) Re-hiring x86 ASM coders won't do the Wii any good, because the Wii doesn't use x86. It uses PowerPC.

Re:Nintendo Wii? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261854)

Does this mean the Nintendo Wii will be able to work with all flash sites?

No. Even if Gnash uses these specs to become fully compatible with recent Flash, the Wii platform uses code signing with a fixed root CA to ensure that only executables approved by Nintendo can run.*

*Yes, Wii homebrew exists. But at this stage of the scene, how many end users would be willing to try the Twilight Hack to run a third-party web browser, especially once Nintendo applies a patch to defeat the Twilight Hack in all new copies of the LoZ: Twilight Princess Game Disc, as happened with MechAssault and GTA: LCS?

Re:Nintendo Wii? (1)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261916)

Only if Nintendo/Opera is willing to write their own SWF player to these specs.

Very clever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261518)

Good response to Sun's JavaFX and Microsoft's Silverlight. The only way how to make Air survive...

Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261526)

Can we also make sure that there are accessible (plain HTML) download links to the flv files so I can watch stuff via ffmpeg without being expected to install a parallel 32bit runtime and the proprietary nonsense that is flash player?

Re:Great (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261586)

If the format is open, the browsers can support it out of the box.

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261928)

A plain download link wouldn't require me to view (even lint to make it readable) javascript in order to reconstruct a simple URL. I don't want audio/video to download automatically, much less play!

64 bit inux perhaps? (1)

rickthewizkid (536429) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261532)

Does this mean we'll see a 64 bit flash plugin for Firefox?

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (0, Flamebait)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261568)

Sure, just as soon as you develop it.

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (2, Informative)

verbatim_verbose (411803) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261576)

Well, Gnash has a 64 bit flash plugin, and hopefully this information will help it advance and become better.

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (1)

luguvalium2 (466022) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262174)

Don't forget swfdec, which is included in Fedora 9. I've tried it (and gnash) and they work fairly well. Unfortunately, one needs to add non-free codecs to get youtube videos working, but they do work.

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (1)

fwittekind (186517) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261830)

Is far as I know, the primary hold up for a Adobe 64 bit flash plugin, is already open sourced.

http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2006/11/open_source_actionscript.html

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (1)

xSacha (1000771) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261870)

What's wrong with nspluginwrapper?

Re:64 bit inux perhaps? (1)

twistedcubic (577194) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262170)

crash, crash, crash

How about DNG? (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261546)

C'mon... Cant Adobe release DNG by somekind Free Software License so it can be implented to wider usage for Photographers?

Flash can be "unwanted" feature for others (just like DNG for others!).

Thank you Adobe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23261548)

That's all I can really say. This is going to be a very good thing for us open-sourcers.

Security (1)

Narpak (961733) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261572)

I wonder if this impacts the security risk of just running Flash Scripts indiscriminately (love NoScript).

SVG (1)

otakuj462 (1071510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261600)

This puts another nail in the coffin for SVG.

Re:SVG (2, Informative)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261836)

Somehow I don't think SWF would be very useful to, say, KDE4. Or to just about any scenario where you want a static image that scales to any resolution. I've yet to see flash used for static images anywhere, for good reason. The reports of the demise of SVG are highly exaggerated.

Re:SVG (1)

redxxx (1194349) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262432)

pfffttt

"This puts another nail in the coffin for using SVG with scripting in web pages, as a real alternative to Flash or Silverlight."

Dead is an exaggeration, but the chance of it living up to the potential a lot of people saw in it are rapidly approaching 0.

You're right, it has a lot of utility for UI design and such, but as an actual document format seen by end users, it seems doomed(outside of very limited adoption in, say, FLOSS only Pre-Press work).

File standards. (1)

Robert Frazier (17363) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261640)

Adobe is pretty interesting. Not that I know a lot about them, but they seem to open up the file formats, and compete on the tools. Another example of this is DNG, their Digital Negative. It is available on some DSLRs as a default raw type (e.g., my Pentax K10D).

Well specified formats for archiving various types of content is where it's at, man.

Best wishes,
Bob

Re:File standards. (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261700)

Adobe is pretty interesting. Not that I know a lot about them, but they seem to open up the file formats, and compete on the tools.

Agreed, and to me this is a Good Thing(tm). There are lots of tools for reading and creating PDF - tools that have nothing to do with Adobe beyond implementing a format they originated. Do the same for the Flash ecosystem and we'll see open source tools, alternative proprietary tools and the continuation of Adobe proprietary tools also.

In other words, proper competition and to the end user's benefit. Definitely a good thing.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:File standards. (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261774)

If they just would open DNG to be compatible with somekind free software license so it could be used. Currently it isn't and cant be implented, exm, for the digiKam photo management software.

RTMP? (1)

stsp (979375) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261644)

Does anyone know whether "SWF and FLV/F4V specification", " Flash Cast" and "AMF" (all mentioned in the FAQ) include RTMP in some way? In other words, will these specs help us watch south park with free software?

Re:RTMP? (1)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261950)

In other words, will these specs help us watch south park with free software?
I assume you have a free OS. Point firefox (MPL or GPL or LGPL) to mrtwig.net. Download the .avi torrent with rtorrent (GPL), and play it with mplayer (GPL). I mean, I've heard from a friend that this works. I've never done it myself.

You can already watch South Park using no non-free software. Do you expect the release to let you use even less non-free software? ;)

(that would make good material for a "Richard Stallman facts").

Re:RTMP? (1)

stsp (979375) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262324)

:)
I know there are other ways to get south park episodes, but I was specifically referring to the streams at http://www.southparkstudios.com/ [southparkstudios.com] There is possibly more content out there streamed via RTMP, which (I think) is currently inaccessible to software other than Adobe's Flash, right?

Re:RTMP? (1)

quetwo (1203948) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262476)

Adobe opened up the RTMP protocol a few months ago with the release of the "BlazeDS" project. http://opensource.adobe.com/ [adobe.com]

"Open" (1)

mwilliamson (672411) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261716)

I guess there taking the meaning from Open from OpenVMS...

Re:"Open" (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262294)

"Open" does not repeat not mean what the OSI wants it to mean. Sorry. "Open" had a meaning in computing before the OSI was a twinkle in Bruce's eye, and that was that it encouraged interoperability, usually simply by publishing standards but sometimes just by having a well-published API and terms that encourage you to use it. As such, it's more like the meaning of Open from SCO Open Desktop, which was "Open" because it was based on POSIX and Motif. (This is before the truly evil SCO, when it was merely the "why would you spend money on that crap" SCO.)

Interesting how things change (2, Interesting)

acb (2797) | more than 6 years ago | (#23261722)

IIRC, Macromedia's original rationale for keeping the formats secret was to prevent a certain unnamed competitor from embracing and extending them. Presumably they're counting on Microsoft being so committed to Silverlight that they're not going to turn on a dime, ditch their system (which their people believe, with some justification, to be technically superior) and replace it with a bastardisation of Flash.

Re:Interesting how things change (1)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262108)

I was just going to comment on this. Adobe is sticking it to silverlight.

bwahahahaha, now MS will never gain market share with it.

More details (5, Informative)

jaaron (551839) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262086)

If you didn't bother to RTFA, here are a few more pertinent details. The specific actions Adobe will take include:

  • Removing restrictions on use of the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications
  • Publishing the device porting layer APIs for Adobe Flash Player
  • Publishing the Adobe Flash Cast protocol and the AMF protocol for robust data services
  • Removing licensing fees - making next major releases of Adobe Flash Player and Adobe AIR for devices free

This is huge in that it means we can finally start porting the Flash runtime to other platforms. It's not yet completely open source, but I'm encouraged by the steps Adobe is taking. They're at least moving in the right direction.

Wii? (1)

twistah (194990) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262326)

Does this mean that Opera can finally implement something above Flash 7 on embedded devices like the Nintendo Wii?

Adobe really wants to get rid of flash (1)

tulcod (1056476) | more than 6 years ago | (#23262452)

I suggested [slashdot.org] this over a year ago. With all the competitors nowadays, Adobe can no longer maintain Flash as a closed-source product.
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