Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Interview With Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the fireside-chats dept.

Sun Microsystems 75

Engadget recently grabbed a few minutes with Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz. They were able to get some great information on the JavaFX Mobile platform as well as Java on the iPhone and how the struggle against Microsoft is going with respect to open source.

cancel ×

75 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Let me be the first to say (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280040)

Java sucks cock. Slowly and laboriously.

Re:Let me be the first to say (1)

hostyle (773991) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280516)

If only it would do it more often and without such installation^Wdating issues, and later incompatibility excuses^Werrors.

Re:Let me be the first to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280682)

<rant>
Ah, but since Progressivism is alive, I'm chained to a ponzi scheme instead, with caesar living in my salad.
Go, federal bread and circuses!
Social security and universal health care for all the slaves!
Bush, this rect^Weconomic stimulus package bites!
How about a return to a pre-income tax America?
</rant>

Re:Let me be the first to say (0, Troll)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280586)

For the first time in my life, I want Java!

-Peter

Re:Let me be the first to say (1)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282730)

You say that like it's a bad thing... i love a good long slow blowjob!

My Schwarz id bigger than your Schwarz (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280110)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john, a big beautiful all-American football hero type, about twenty five, came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and married -- and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with him.

As soon as he left, I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist. I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass and not an end in itself.

Of course I'd had jerkoff fantasies of devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't?), but I had never done it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's handsomest young stud.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking.

I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract? I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does. I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock, beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down with his piss. I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit. Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my hankercheif, and stashed them in my briefcase.

In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole -- not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone.

The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process. I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did,bring to a grateful shiteater.

finally! (1)

genican1 (1150855) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280130)

Looks like Java is finally becoming what they wanted it to be. A platform on which to deploy the same program, regardless of the underlying hardware. too bad it's only on mobile phones.

Typical Schwartz (3, Funny)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280142)

First of all, this was on Engadget Mobile, so it's strictly limited to porting Java to portable devices.

That said, here's a typical question:

"Jonathan, we have videotape of you mooning the CEO of Apple and saying "Not until after hell freezes over you SOB." This seems to indicate some difficulties in getting Java on the iPhone."
"Absolutely not! There aren't any technical challenges to porting Java. We can completely get it done man, just as long as Apple doesn't screw around again. There are no technical problems. Technical issues aren't there. Nope. No way."

The sooner someone smashes that pony-tailed freak in, the better.

Re:Typical Schwartz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280166)

Allow me to be the first to say, "huh"?

Re:Typical Schwartz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280308)

Vodka to all comrades, woo hoo!

First post bashing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280394)

This whole first post bashing culture is really getting tiring. It's to the point now where it's not even worth it to get the first post, because regardless of what you say it's just going to get modded to hell by people who really shouldn't have mod points.

Take this guy. He either forgot to hit "post anonymously" or just doesn't care about your crap. Second, he seemed to read the article and have an opinion that had a bit of humor with a biting edge. If you don't agree with it, prove your point instead of bashing his post down. It's really getting sickening when nerds wield their modstick like fucking Darth Maul.

Re:First post bashing (2, Funny)

billcopc (196330) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281020)

You must be new here.

This is Slashdot, not Mensa. BIG difference!

Re:Typical Schwartz (0, Troll)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280484)

I've had one drink tonight. How many have you had?

Re:Typical Schwartz (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 6 years ago | (#23286082)

Not enough, evidently. :-)

Mod parent up. (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280548)

The parent has a point. Just because Mr Schwarz is a CEO of a household name and just because he's talking about open source doesn't make it a worthy article. It's full of drivel and very boring to read. Our humble down-modded first-poster was trying to save us a bit of time. There is nothing new in this engadget article. Slow news day.. move along!

i have a better question (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280408)

If judge Kimball rules that SCO had no rights to sell sun a license to open source solaris, will Sun go to bat for the Open solaris community or leave them hang under a legal cloud?

Open Solaris may soon be legally encumbered once again, because Sun and Schwartz failed to do due diligence in finding out who really owns unix.

Re:i have a better question (2, Informative)

davecb (6526) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280496)

Huh? Judge Kimball might rule that SCO
ripped off Sun, but not that Sun didn't
buy licences from Bell back when they
together wrote Solaris 2 (Solaris 1 was
BSD, you may remember, for which you
still had to buy a Bell 32V license)

--dave

Re:i have a better question (3, Interesting)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280678)

Uhm, Novell and SCO had an agreement where SCO would be the licensing agent for Unix. Whether SCO had a right to sell licenses isn't the issue. SCO was supposed to sell licenses, send 100% of the license fee to Novell and Novell would send SCO back 5% which was their fee for acting as the licensing agent. The only thing Novell is saying is that SCO didn't give them the money. That's not Sun's fault.

If you go to a store and purchase something, you give the cashier the money, but the cashier puts it in their pocket instead of the register, the store owner can't come take what you purchased away from you.

From my limited understanding, I think it wasn't just SYSV licenses Sun purchased. SCO had a good product called UnixWare that had very good driver support in the x86 world. I think I remember reading somewhere that part of Sun's licensing deal with SCO was for drivers, which I would assume were for SCO's UnixWare and not just for Unix SYSV licenses. So what SCO owes Novell for what Sun paid them, may not be the entire amount.

Regardless, I highly doubt Sun wouldn't indemnify the OpenSolaris community. They indemnify customer's they sell RedHat and SuSE to. So to even think they wouldn't indemnify users of their own codebase is just ridiculous.

Re:i have a better question (2, Interesting)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281078)

Uhm, Novell and SCO had an agreement where SCO would be the licensing agent for Unix.

What exactly they were to be the licensing agent for is one of the things that's under question.

If you go to a store and purchase the cash register, and the cashier puts the money in his pocket, that doesn't necessarily mean you get to keep the cash register.

Was "the right to sell transferrable source licenses" one of the things that SCO had the right to sell to Sun?

Well, if SCO has to pay Novell 2 million, then I guess Novell has accepted the money for the cash register. If SCO has to give it back to Sun, then Novell gets to go after Sun. If SCO gets to hang onto it, who knows?

Re:i have a better question (2, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281120)

But Novell already stated they won't be pursuing Unix copyrights. [pcworld.com] So OpenSolaris has nothing to fear, which is what the original poster was trying to imply.

The list of all ducks that don't quack like... (1)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282854)

That's a valid response to the original post. The analogy I was objecting to wasn't.

Though I do have one objection to Novell's reported announcement:

"We're not interested in suing people over Unix," Novell spokesman Bruce Lowry said. "We're not even in the Unix business anymore."

Since Linux is UNIX in every sense of the word that remains meaningful, that's hardly true.

It's kind of a real-life example of Russell's Paradox. If they do pursue UNIX copyrights but exclude Linux, they would be keeping a definition of UNIX (albeit one that has never been a particularly useful one) alive... but by abandoning that then only the functional definition of UNIX retains any meaning, and by that definition Linux quacks as loudly as anything else that implements and lives upon the traditional UNIX API...

They don't get the option of not being "in the UNIX business", they just get to pick what kind of business that is. :)

Re:I too have a better question (1)

turkeyfish (950384) | more than 6 years ago | (#23285180)

I've been a Sun shareholder for about 7 years now. I hate to admit how much this has cost me, not to mention my retirement funds.

The question I would like to ask CEO executives, is when are they going to stop selling hype and start selling proudcts that sell and make the company some money? As it is now, they only seem to be able to generate hype and and more stock options for executives. Otherwise, I see little reason to expect Sun will exist much longer. After all, any new startup can generate hype, which is very much in oversupply these days.

Frankly, I can't understand why I should continue to hold this worthless stock and my best best for "making" any money seems to be selling the stock (now down 99.9% from where I bought it for a loss so that I can defray other tax liabilities.
Sun stock seems to make the dollar look sound.

Next time you interview the CEO, perhaps you can ask him this question. In the long run, strip away the hype and its the only one that matters for SUN, which appears to be continue to set as I speak.

Re:I too have a better question (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23288790)

Frankly, I can't understand why I should continue to hold this worthless stock and my best best for "making" any money seems to be selling the stock (now down 99.9% from where I bought it for a loss so that I can defray other tax liabilities.
Sun stock seems to make the dollar look sound.
Sounds like you bought during the dot com era when Sun's stock price really shot up. Even McNeally was questioning analysts why his company's stock was trading at 10x revenues. You're not going to make your money back. It took a long time for the stock to find it's bottom. The market went crazy with a bunch of companies, Sun included. It's not their fault the stock went up so high. While many of them benefited from this, in the long run I think it really hurt the company. Though it's their own fault they continued to keep splitting the stock.

Past few years though it's been doing pretty well up until the 10/07 and the recent 23% drop. It's been keeping inline with IBM, HPQ, DELL and other stocks in that segment. It's never going to have the type of increase you need to break even.

After a long stint of losses they finally started having consistent profitable quarters. Not sure why, but 1st and 3rd quarters aren't their strongest. This recent downturn might be a good buying opportunity since historically Q4 is usually when their biggest revenue quarter. I'm going by calendar quarters not their FY.

All they have to do is copy Microsoft (1)

Ox0065 (1085977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282006)

They already have aping apple covered.
They OWN star office & run X windows so aping Xerox PARC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_PARC [wikipedia.org] is well & truly covered.
And they're buying innovation left right & centre.

So it seems as though (beneath it all) they're REALLY aping Microsoft. (^-^)
All they have to do is ape Microsoft some more & enter into a cross-licensing deal with Novell.

Perhaps they are secretly destined to rule the desktop of the 64bit age.

Re:All they have to do is copy Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23282386)

I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

jPhone (3, Informative)

weston (16146) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280508)

"the Sun software apparently looked eerily like the Apple iPhone's software; in fact, the platform Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz showed off is already being dubbed "jPhone" based on the striking resemblance to Apple's goods.... Scott McNealy alluded to the copying of Apple's modus operandi by wearing a black t-shirt..."

It doesn't surprise me when I see Apple-Sun coherence or imitation. Schwartz's roots are in NeXTStep/Cocoa development. I'm actually surprised there isn't more with Schwartz at the helm.

Re:jPhone (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280662)

Good point! I don't actually know, but I guess it has to do with Sun's focus on servers lately, and the fact that the customers of their workstations used to be scientific people not very concerned with desktop elegance.

Re:jPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280882)

I'm actually surprised there isn't more with Schwartz at the helm.
I see you have the Schwartz too!

Re:jPhone (1)

DECS (891519) | more than 6 years ago | (#23285270)

The "jPhone" was just an OpenMoko device with a poorly drawn iPhone interface clone photoshopped over the top.

Schwartz' Lighthouse design made some nice looking NeXTSTEP apps, but that has more to do with NeXT than anything Sun acquired. Have you seen Sun software? There isn't anything that doesn't look like ass, even if some of it is great underneath.

However, in the mobile arena, there isn't much great underneath AND it looks like ass. Look at the jPhone pics:

Sun Tries to Jump on iPhone Bandwagon with jPhone [roughlydrafted.com]

Sun... (1)

segedunum (883035) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280520)

I don't know what it is, but Sun seem to want to be Apple for some strange reason.

Re:Sun... (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280556)

I think Sun just wants attention.
I've heard STORIES of a long lost era in which SUN was relevant, but come on, srsly.

Re:Sun... (2, Interesting)

Facetious (710885) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280628)

Sun's identity crisis is not new. "We're a hardware company! No, Software! Software! We're pro-open source. Except when we buy an open source company like MySQL, then we like to close things off. We also love Linux! No, Solaris! We wish you all would love Solaris like you love Linux. Why can't you love us?"

Re:Sun... (4, Insightful)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280870)

Yes, hard to believe that a multi-billion dollar corporation with tens of thousands of employees would choose to focus on more than just one product. I guess companies like HP, Apple and IBM must have this same identity crisis?

I can just picture you running into your local Staples and yelling "Make up your mind! Are you a pen store or a staples store?"

As far as MySQL. It has always been dual licensed and some things were not always available in the community version. The things that were available under the GPL licenses will always be available. From the reports I've read, the things that are closed were in the works before Sun purchased them.

Re:Sun... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23281100)

Give up man, you're trying to talk sense to a slashdork fanatatic.

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281188)

As far as MySQL. It has always been dual licensed and some things were not always available in the community version. From the reports I've read, the things that are closed were in the works before Sun purchased them.
I've heard that response many times and I don't understand why people like you think it means anything. When a company is acquired, there are changes. Often huge changes. Changes to bring the company into line with the goals of the parent company.

Schwartz has been regularly quoted [news.com] saying things like "open source [is] a fundamental business-model advantage, and not a cheap complement to throw to the community in order to drive sales of 'the real value.'" Yet this "in the works" business decision from the former MySQL flies directly in the face of that statement.

Why is it so crazy to expect that such a business decision would have been re-evaluated and brought into line with the CEO's public comments before announcing it?

Re:Sun... (2, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281252)

MySQL had a sketchy open source relationship long before Sun were in talks to acquire them. The comments that Sun is close sourcing MySQL is disingenuous. Nothing is being "closed", just that some new features may not be released in the community edition. This was true before the acquisition. The Monitor product is one example. MySQL Cluster was also originally developed for paying customers first, then eventually opened.

There is nothing stopping someone from developing similar features in MySQL's GPL'd code base. Open Source is supposed to be about give and take, not just expecting some company to pay for all the development itself and give it all away for free.

My point is that Sun isn't doing anything really different from what MySQL AB was doing. Which is why I mainly use PostgreSQL.

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23283054)

My point is that Sun isn't doing anything really different from what MySQL AB was doing.
You've just restated your original premise and completely failed to answer my question which I will restate for you:

Sun acquired MySQL AB not the other way around. So why is it that the former MySQL AB's policies wrt Open Source override Sun's current stated policies?

Re:Sun... (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23286376)

Sun acquired MySQL AB not the other way around. So why is it that the former MySQL AB's policies wrt Open Source override Sun's current stated policies?
Maybe you should be asking someone at Sun or MySQL these questions. I just don't see the big deal because nothing has changed WRT MySQL. The impression people were trying to portray was that Sun was going to somehow make the community edition less available, when in reality MySQL hasn't changed because of the acquisition.

Maybe things will change. Maybe these things take time. It's not like Sun bought MySQL AB, fired all the 400 employees and replaced them with new employees that already know the direction Sun has regarding open source. For all intents and purposes, Mickos still runs MySQL, it's just a division of Sun now instead of it's own company.

And from what I understand, the features that were quoted were the hot backup and restore features which are only for InnoDB tables. InnoBase developed the hot backup utilities. InnoBase is a division of Oracle, so maybe Sun/MySQL doesn't even have the rights to open it up.

If you clicked on the link in the reply above yours you would have seen this comment from Schwartz:

"JesseStay : does he anticipate a fallout of original MySQL users or fork in the mysql code and how will they handle that if it does happen?
2008-04-25 12:26:30

JonathanSchwartz: I'm not anticipating a fork - Marten Mickos (SVP, Database Group at Sun, former CEO, MySQL) made some comments saying he was considering making available certain MySQL add-ons to MySQL Enterprise subscribers only - and as I said on stage, leaders at Sun have the autonomy to do what they think is right to maximize their business value - so long as they remember their responsibility to the corporation and all of its communities (from shareholders to developers). Not just their silo.

I think Marten got some fairly direct and immediate feedback saying the idea was a bad one - and we have no plans whatever of "hiding the ball," of keeping any technology from the community. Everything Sun delivers will be freely available, via a free and open license (either GPL, LGPL or Mozilla/CDDL), to the community.

Everything.

No exception."

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23286760)

Maybe you should be asking someone at Sun or MySQL these questions.
Oh Jessuz christ! YOU are the one who trotted the excuse out. If you don't understand it, why are you parroting it?

Re:Sun... (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23287202)

You came out of nowhere in this thread and asked me...

Why is it so crazy to expect that such a business decision would have been re-evaluated and brought into line with the CEO's public comments before announcing it?
As far as I understand it based on his comments in his blogs and other places, Schwartz wants everything released from Sun/MySQL to be open sourced. Mickos has a different opinion.

When MySQL was on it's own, they needed to generate revenue off of MySQL and Mickos' decisions were made with that in mind. Now that MySQL is part of Sun, and Schwartz stated that they plan on using the acquisition to basically be able to provide optimized hardware/OS platforms for the MySQL users as well as support through Sun's larger support channel, some of the burden of generating revenue directly from MySQL may not be as important. After over 13 years of working in one mindset, I'm not surprised that Mickos couldn't just flip a switch and see the bigger picture Sun has in mind. He still wants to make sure his business unit is profitable rather than somehow contributing to Sun's other lines. At least that's been my understanding of it.

Mickos actually responded [slashdot.org] to the original thread on /. about MySQL. One interesting quote is:

Finally, please note that this entire decision and reasoning is something we developed on our own at MySQL AB several months ago, before being acquired by Sun. Sun has not asked us to do this or that. Or in fact, Sun has asked us the opposite - i.e. whether we should not just opensource all the stuff relating to backup. I will have such a discussion with my colleagues at Sun in the coming months.
It seems like Schwartz is trying to stick to what he said, while Mickos has a different mindset. It's only been a couple of months since the merger. I wouldn't expect things to change this quickly. Plus, the features in question haven't even been released yet. I don't see how people like you keep trying to attribute this to Sun when it seems like Sun has is trying to convince Mickos to do what the community wants.

Like I said before, I think the backup stuff in question is related to InnoDB tables, but I may be wrong. This my have other problems if the features in question aren't developed by MySQL and have some InnoBase/Oracle licensing issues.

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23288744)

You came out of nowhere in this thread and asked me...
ooooh, nowhere. You got me, I am the phantom and thus everything I say is to be questioned.
Unlike Sun.

Again, you just keep parroting Mickos, an employee of Sun.

I don't see how people like you keep trying to attribute this to Sun when it seems like Sun has is trying to convince Mickos to do what the community wants.
Lol, Sun owns Mickos. There is no 'trying to convince' -- there is only allowing him to stray from the corporate direction.

Re:Sun... (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23289144)

Lol, Sun owns Mickos. There is no 'trying to convince' -- there is only allowing him to stray from the corporate direction.
--
Since it's the weekend I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're drunk and not really this dense. I thought the info I quoted would make it clear but let me spell it out for you.

Mickos is still running MySQL as if it was it's own separate company and trying to find ways to make money from MySQL. Can't blame him, this has been his job for years. Schwartz has other plans for generating revenue from MySQL and Mickos needs to understand this and get used to the idea that he doesn't need to generate revenue directly from MySQL as much as previously.

In 2006 MySQL AB revenues were about $40 million. Sun was willing to pay $1Billion for the company so they obviously are looking to make the acquisition pay off in other ways. Even if MySQL is generating 3 times the 2006 figures now, that's still less than what would justify the purchase price.

Schwartz isn't being a dick and undermining Mickos' authority but giving him time to acclimate into the new role. At least that's the impression I'm getting. They don't want to give him the feeling of being a big fish in a small pond moving to a small fish in a big pond. So Sun buys an open source company and doesn't force them to make significant changes right away and toe the company line. Doesn't seem so bad compared to the alternate headline "Sun buys open source company and completely changes everything."

Mickos needs to get out of the MySQL CEO mentality and get a better understanding of his new position and MySQL's role in Sun. This is not a lesser role. It's actually a bigger role. Sun's plan for MySQL, if it works, will generate more indirect revenue from MySQL than it could directly generate so Mickos shouldn't focus on direct revenues as much for important features that could benefit the community. At least that's the plan.

Mickos has done a lot for MySQL as CEO and I'm sure he'll do the same in his new position with Sun. I think Schwartz is being smart by letting him ease into the new role because if he took the opposite route of imposing Sun's open source views on him I would imagine things wouldn't go smoothly.

If Mickos and the other former MySQL AB leadership don't like Sun/Schwartz's plans for MySQL they shouldn't have agreed to the acquisition. The sooner Mickos and the rest of MySQL get on board with the new plan, the sooner, Sun, MySQL, paying and non paying customers benefit. Provided the plan works :) Which I think it can.

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23292548)

You are a riot. Great soap opera you dreamt up.

Sun's internal politics is not a valid justification for a division of sun to step out of line with the CEO's stated direction. It may be the cause but it is not some sort of coherent plan, just a sign of bad management.

Just admit it, it was a bullshit excuse from the minute Mickos posted it and if you had applied a little critical thinking you would have never repeated it.

Re:Sun... (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23293056)

How stupid of me to try and anthropomorphize people.

Re:Sun... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#23293180)

How stupid of me to try and anthropomorphize people.
Yes, it was absolutely stupid.
Missing the forest for the trees, you do it.

Re:Sun... (1)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 6 years ago | (#23283740)

Nothing is being "closed", just that some new features may not be released in the community edition.

In other words, those features are closed source.

Re:Sun... (2, Insightful)

Facetious (710885) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281590)

I guess companies like HP, Apple and IBM must have this same identity crisis?
Actually, I think there IS something of a corporate schizophrenia. It's the effect of size and complexity. My point is that Sun has had a harder time defining its corporate vision than most.

I happen to like Swartz. I think he inherited some corporate culture relics that he would rather do without.

Re:Sun... (1)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23283022)

corporate schizophrenia
More like corporate multiple personality disorder, but that one and schizophrenia are often confused, even though they're quite distinct.

Schizophrenia: auditory hallucinations (hearing voices) and paranoid or bizarre delusions.
Multiple Personality Disorder (aka dissociative identity disorder): "a single person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities, each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment".

Definitely MPD. Def-definitely, definitely MPD.

[Factoid of the day was provided by wikipedia]

Re:Sun... (1)

dacut (243842) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281760)

Nah, it goes deeper than that. Dealing with Sun as a target platform is frustrating as can be. Are they investing money on SPARC or is it dead? Do we need to verify our app run on Solaris 10 or are they dropping it for Linux? Should we develop our app for an old release of Java, or do we require our clients to have the latest version (including the OS patches required to install it?).

Re:Sun... (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281872)

Nah, it goes deeper than that. Dealing with Sun as a target platform is frustrating as can be. Are they investing money on SPARC or is it dead?
Nothing from Sun has indicated they are giving up on SPARC. New versions have been coming out with their T1, T2 and Rock is coming next year. From what I understand Sun still makes more money from selling SPARC based machines than they do from their Intel/AMD boxes.

Do we need to verify our app run on Solaris 10 or are they dropping it for Linux?
This I don't get. When did anyone at Sun every imply they were dumping Solaris for Linux? When Sun started selling x86 machines, they also offered Linux on them as well as Windows and Solaris. But nobody is stupid enough to ask if they're dropping Solaris for Windows. They were late to the x86 game with Solaris and have made great strides to make up for that. Solaris 10 on x86 is not some side project anymore. From what I understand it is on equal footing with Solaris 10 for SPARC and they share the same code base. There is even an OpenSolaris project to port it to Power based machines. You want to buy sun's x64 servers you can choose what OS to put on it (Solaris, RedHat, SuSE, Windows) and sun will even support it. What's wrong with them offering choices?

Should we develop our app for an old release of Java, or do we require our clients to have the latest version (including the OS patches required to install it?).
That's all up to you, but my impression has been that Sun has been working hard to make sure companies like Microsoft don't screw with the JDK to make this easier for you. New versions of Windows machines I have seen have come with JDK 1.6 installed. I haven't had much problems with the few swing apps I have written. Personally, if I was in that situation, I would write for the platform that most of my users would likely have if it was a small application. If it was a large application things might be different. If you write your application for an older source target, you're not cutting off people who are using newer versions.

Honestly, I don't know how this confusion gets attributed to Sun. It seems more like the type of things HP or IBM sales reps might be telling you.

Re:Sun... (1)

gumbi west (610122) | more than 6 years ago | (#23284464)

I was just thinking that I have no idea what Sun even sells anymore.

Re:Sun... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23293072)

Except when we buy an open source company like MySQL, then we like to close things off.

Except that decision was already done by MySQL as an independent company, and Sun had very little to do with it.

But don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.

Still about Java? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23280580)

It's funny to see how a lot of posts are about the quality of Java (or the lack thereof) instead of whether or not it can run on the iPhone. But sadly enough for good reasons. I, for one, don't care whether or not it runs on the iPhone, since - here it comes, drums please - Java is (still) unreasonably slow. There. We've had it. It has been said. Again. And rightfully so. Seriously now, the *relatively* limited processing power of handheld devices like the iPhone does actually make me wonder why I would want to run Java on it in the first place - I haven't seen any real, tangible progress at all during the last couple of years as far as Java performance is concerned. People who claim that Java code is "(almost) as fast as compiled code" should get their facts straight and if there is one thing that Real Life has shown us, then it is the fact that - NO - Java programs do NOT run on every platform - they are (on average) about as cross-platform compatible as C or C++ programs. I mean, let's face it: isn't it strange that I'm actually surprised whenever I open an applet in my browser and it actually WORKS? Please, just get rid of this Over Object Oriented experiment...

Re:Still about Java? (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280898)

Someone should do something then about those billions of phones that are less powerful than an iPhone and currently run Java then.

Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (2, Informative)

bignetbuy (1105123) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280656)

2500 people laid off and dismal stock price. Off 3% just today.

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280794)

Well, the pessimistic view might be that it already has...

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (2, Insightful)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281406)

Two and a half thousand people out of work, and your post is emphasising the stock drop? Way to give a shit about your fellow man, dude.

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1)

imstanny (722685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281602)

Two and a half thousand people out of work, and your post is emphasising the stock drop? Way to give a shit about your fellow man, dude.
Thousands of people died in Africa today, while your dumb ass is typing it up on Slashdot. Belittling others is your contribution to man kind? Insightful my ass. Go utilize a Kleenex, jerkoff.

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23281424)

Off ***23%*** just today, you mean.

And the layoffs are no big deal. Sun has laid thousands of employees off almost every single year since 2000. Sometimes twice a year. Sun has lost almost half its value since the reverse stock split and since Schwartz took over. They lay people off, take hundreds of millions in charges related to laying off, then that reduces their profits the next quarter. So they lay more off. Yeah, that'll keep working. Morons.

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 6 years ago | (#23283746)

They get a corporate tax discount for having layoffs. It's how they mitigate the cost of purchasing companies. (Cobalt, StorageTek, MySQL, whoever comes next).

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 6 years ago | (#23289584)

They get a corporate tax discount for having layoffs
That is a problem that can be fixed. Cancel all tax breaks for any layoffs from anything that looks remotely like that.

Re:Can Java help Sun's bottom line? (1)

Score Whore (32328) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282222)

They've not laid off 2500 people yet. Just announced plans to lay off 1500-2500. Which I suppose is more or less the same. Guess what? Google is planning layoffs as well. Special eh?

So here's a question for the FOSS world (3, Interesting)

weston (16146) | more than 6 years ago | (#23280764)

Where's the open source mobile platform that will run on top of third-party hardware?

I think about this every time I look at the OpenMoko and Qtopia stuff. I don't think that producing hardware designs is a bad thing per se, but I don't understand why there hasn't been more effort at rolling out distro for mobiles hobbyists could install on existing phones they might have lying around.

I understand there are Linux-based phones. But think about where FOSS computing might be if Linux and BSD had to wait for custom-designed hardware, or for a manufacturer to build a PC around that product. There'd have been nowhere near the growth.

There needs to be mobile FOSS for more-or-less commodity hardware if there's really going to be a part for it to play in the growth in the mobile market.

Re:So here's a question for the FOSS world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23281546)

it don't exist right now mainly because the culture around mobile hardware, they love to break compatibility in every dot release, rebuild everything from scratch in every project, if hardware companies begin to change this mindset, and begin to use reusable and portable hardware abstraction layer then the FOSS you talk in your post will exist.

Re:So here's a question for the FOSS world (1)

kTag (24819) | more than 6 years ago | (#23285244)

Android from Google [google.com] . Where have you been for the past 6 month ? Challenge result are on Monday.

Re:So here's a question for the FOSS world (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 6 years ago | (#23289592)

The question is where are the phones that can run it and how can existing phones load that? Until then, consider it vaporware in the phone arena. Simulations and nonpublic hardware do not count.

As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just would (1)

mrwolf007 (1116997) | more than 6 years ago | (#23281450)

like to say something. I lost my believe in Sun.
Sure, they are the greastest (commercial) supporters of open source. No denying that.
Great, my last OS-Project was a load of bullshit (unless you consider a really simple servlet type server interresting) but well, i do like open source, and try to to it when possible. Yeah just me, and probibly millions or others, well not everybody does the "great" next project. I just hope i am not the only one to believe in the power of individuals.
In case your reading, remove me from any further responinsibilities Sun, my true name is Syren Baran, you should have me in your records ;)

Re:As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just woul (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282276)

Sure, they are the greastest (commercial) supporters of open source. No denying that.

There's plenty of denying that.

Re:As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just woul (2, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23282572)

There's plenty of denying that.

Sure you can deny the sky is blue if you wanted to as well. However an independent study created for the EU [businessreviewonline.com] says otherwise.

The study also backs up Sun Microsystemsâ(TM) claim to be the biggest donator of open source code. The top ten business contributors were as follows:

1 Sun Microsystems 51,372 Person-months 312m euros
2 IBM 14,865 Person-months 90m euros
3 Red Hat 9,748 Person-months 59m euros
4 Silicon Graphics 7,736 Person-months 47m euros
5 SAP 7,493 Person-months 46m euros
6 MySQL 5,747 Person-months 35m euros
7 Netscape 5,249 Person-months 32m euros
8 Ximian 4,985 Person-months 30m euros
9 Realnetworks 4,412 Person-months 27m euros
10 AT&T 4,286 Person-months 26m euros
Also from here [sun.com] .

"Did you know that Sun contributes more than $200 million per year of intellectual property to the open source movement, in dozens of open source projects? The companyâ(TM)s historical contribution tops $2 billion. WOW!"
A list of some of the open source projects Sun contributes to [sun.com] can be found on that link.

Re:As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just woul (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23286512)

By the way, the numbers for LOC from the study are from contributions to Debian. Not for all of Sun's OS contributions. So OpenSolaris and OpenJDK etc are not included.

Re:As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just woul (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 6 years ago | (#23289660)

Did you know that Sun contributes more than $200 million per year of intellectual property to the open source movement, in dozens of open source projects? The companyÃ(TM)s historical contribution tops $2 billion. WOW!"
I wonder how much of that is code that works around 32bit SPARC platforms and making it harder to throw in something more than a CG6?

Re:As the first SCMAD (in my country?) i just woul (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23283066)

Anyone have any idea what this guy is talking about?

Sun loves to play {hardware,software} games. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 6 years ago | (#23289646)

Sure, they are the greastest (commercial) supporters of open source. No denying that.
Say that when folks like bmc dont mind playing support/documentation games with their hardware, and hiding entire platforms(sun4m) behind The Iron Curtain in Solaris 10. Then they do a bit of a strange licensing issue with Java that keeps it somewhere between closed and open. I'm not surprised why you jumped ship.

IBM at least has the decency to do openness, then cut machines out of the HCL. Sun just expects people to play along or be stonewalled.

Java boat tough to turn (1)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 6 years ago | (#23284724)

The irony is Java originated from workong on small hardware devices, and now Sun is scrambling to make it dominant on popular small hardware devices. They've been missing many important junctures along the way since 1995, especially when iPhone or Android can comparatively come in overnight and usurp good portions of the market.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?