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The Continuing War Against Microsoft's "Facts" Campaign

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the sometimes-they-come-back dept.

Microsoft 316

davidmwilliams writes "I've been rallying against Microsoft's so-called 'Get the Facts' site for the last fortnight in my blog. Rather than give any legitimate comparison facing off Windows Server vs similarly spec'd Linux options, the Microsoft spin doctors opt for bunkum and hogwash with sensational headlines that don't have any substance underneath. Here's the state of play, including an update on my request to Microsoft PR to do something about the blatant lack of integrity displayed. I also go over the latest case study put up by Microsoft: they promise to show why people are choosing Windows Server 2008 over Linux using the City of Uppsala as an example."

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wah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298000)

haha

who cares? (2, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298004)

people will choose the software they feel suits their needs best. shockingly it's not always going to be linux.

This is a typical Microsoft tactic... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298014)

I fucked Ann Coulter. Hard. I fucked her in her tight slutty asshole and then I pulled my cock out and she sucked on it. She loves sucking on my cock once it's been in her tight asshole. I rammed her hard and fast as my throbbing meatpole stretched her butthole apart. Then I shoved my cock in her cunt and fucked her dumb brains out. The stupid slut kept screaming and telling me how much she loved being treated like a dirt fuckslave, a fucking cumslut, a whorish little fuckbunny. Then she begged me to let her lick my asshole. How could I refuse? I let her suck on my asshole as she flicked her tongue on it while jacking my throbbing cock. She wrapped her lips around my asshole and sucked it hard, flicking her tongue it, kissing it and licking it and moaning like the dirty cumslut whore she is. Then she reached back and took her cunt juices and rub it all around my asshole and proceeded to lick her love juices off my tight asshole. I bent her over and fucked her in her slutty butthole again, and then shoved my cock down her throat and facefucked her. I slapped her face with my cock and then shoved my dick back in her butthole. After a few minutes of buttfucking the bitch, I pulled me cock out. She sucked me clean and then proceeded to lick my asshole some more while jacking me off. The dirty filthy cumbunny fuckslave sure knew how to give a good rusty trombone. After a few minutes of expert rimming, I was ready to blow my load. I blew spurts of thick, hot, white, sticky cum all over her face. Thick sticky wads straight into her mouth. Cumming over and over. Thick ropes of cum arcing up high, streaming out and splattering all over her slutty face. She sucked out all my cum as I emptied my balls all over her. She then used my cock to rub my cum all over her face. It was an amazing fuck-session. Ann Coulter is an amazingly filthy slut and I encourage everyone to fuck her. Right now I have the slut so horny that I can ram that bitch anytime I want. Ann Coulter really is a spectacular cunt.

Re:This is a typical Microsoft tactic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298050)

I wish I had modpoints right now!

Re:This is a typical Microsoft tactic... (-1, Offtopic)

PenGun (794213) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298090)

Me too. To the moon with this one!

Re:who cares? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298066)

people will choose the software they feel suits their needs best. shockingly it's not always going to be linux.

Also shockingly, if they are continually fed lies without anybody disagreeing, this affects what they feel suits their needs best.

Trolling the blog-whore (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298080)

Two wrongs don't make a right... or do they?

Re:Trolling the blog-whore (3, Funny)

atezun (755568) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298160)

No, but I hear third time's a charm.

Re:Trolling the blog-whore (1)

SuperBigGulp (177180) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298212)

No, but I just read some really weird stuff about Ann Coulter.

Re:Trolling the blog-whore (4, Funny)

utnapistim (931738) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298528)

>> Two wrongs don't make a right... or do they?

No, but three lefts do.

Re:Trolling the blog-whore (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298706)

== TRUE, so in first order logic, they do.

correction.. (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298712)

NOT NOT == TRUE

doh...

Re:who cares? (5, Interesting)

AftanGustur (7715) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298086)

people will choose the software they feel suits their needs best. shockingly it's not always going to be linux.

You are right, but the keyword is "feel"..

If I spend a million dollars in publicity where I suggest product X is, not only, superior to product Y, but also that everybody is going for product 'X'.

It would be normal for you to "feel" that product 'X' suits you best, even though it doesn't.

Re:who cares? (0, Flamebait)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298142)

how is that different to the stupid blog in the story? this guy is clearly out to sway the audience in favour of his preffered os. I fail to see why people invest so much emotion into this, if MS truely was so aweful no one would be using it. MS does something right, it's why they have stayed so much bigger than everyone else

Re:who cares? (5, Informative)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298274)

this guy is clearly out to sway the audience in favour of his preffered os

Which is a fair point if you assume that anyone with an opinion is automatically a liar by the very fact of their advocacy. I don't think that necessarily follows.

Certainly it doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. I can't see anything that looks to be untrue, or even deliberately misleading the article. Mr. Williams even goes so far as acknowledge that one case, (the Hi China story) actually reflected well on Microsoft. So you can't really paint him as being just as dishonest as the corporation he is challenging.

A deeper point is this: do we really want to live in a world where lies and deception are regarded as the norm, and where all opinions are automatically worthless simply by virtue of their being opinions? I can't see that polluting the world's data flow like that is a good thing, personally. I think we need people who are willing to challenge spin and propaganda wherever they find it. Williams seems to be doing that, and personally, I applaud him for his efforts.

Decision abdicated to Certified Gold Partners (5, Informative)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298378)

If you read the article, there was no comparison done. The decision was outsourced to MS resellers who, surprise, peddled more MS wares. Comparison of other technologies never happened.

Oh, that and MS Sweden couldn't be bothered to look up any of the dozens of regional companies that provide support for non-MS systems and packages. That 'no support' argument worked in the early 1990's but not anymore.

Re:who cares? (5, Insightful)

javilon (99157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298648)

"A deeper point is this: do we really want to live in a world where lies and deception are regarded as the norm, and where all opinions are automatically worthless simply by virtue of their being opinions?"

It is not only that. What stands out the most is what Microsoft has decided to call this: "Get the facts". They are trying to pass it as facts, when they are, at best, opinions. At worst, marketing rethoric. It has the smell of the ministry of truth all around it.

Re:who cares? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298280)

if MS truely was so aweful no one would be using it. MS does something right, it's why they have stayed so much bigger than everyone else
Yeah, just like an artist being on top of the charts is a accurate and undeniable evidence of their talent and excellence of their music.

Re:who cares? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298396)

It seems you do not understand that most users have no technical understanding.
I work tech support for an OEM and if you tell someone something (for example Ill take a real world example, Vista is underpolished, buggy, has compatibility problems, networking problems, shaky drivers, as well as hogging resources)
If you tell these uneducated users that this is the case, and that Linux is perfect and works well, what do you think they are going to choose. Microsoft has been doing this to Linux since it arrived, this is why they remain a monopoly.
The customers of Microsoft are not you, you are not even important enough to be considered a Microsoft customer. Microsoft has done an amazing job of convincing non technical business people that their software is the best, and they have succeeded in tricking them very well. The only problem is that more and more people like me are spreading the truth, that Microsoft is not the end all be all, and that you have a choice in what you use. When the computing industry matures a little more, maybe we will have a fair environment where choice is supported.

Re:who cares? (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298540)

I see the 'Everyone uses windows, it must be good.' Argument all the time in YouTube comments, I never thought I'd see it on Slashdot.
That is the stupidest argument you can make. People use Windows because Microsoft have cornered them. Software they need runs under windows, DRM, hardware, games, etc...
Windows is by far worse than the competition.

Re:who cares? (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298726)

Whenever I hear that The best comeback line is everyone eats at McDonald's it must be good .

Just because you served a billion people doesn't mean your shit is very good, it just means it is good enough.

Re:who cares? (3, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298652)

if MS truely was so aweful no one would be using it.
And if smoking is bad for you then no one would do it would they?

Re:who cares? (3, Funny)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298310)

Since the improved GPU-detection of 'Product X' you won't have to fiddle with xorg.conf anymore. This leaves me with no 'feel' of satisfaction when it works.

Re:who cares? (5, Insightful)

denzacar (181829) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298622)

If I spend a million dollars in publicity where I suggest product X is, not only, superior to product Y, but also that everybody is going for product 'X'.

It would be normal for you to "feel" that product 'X' suits you best, even though it doesn't.
Yeah, I know what you mean...

Imagine them making a series of commercials that way.
Lets say... with a young, "hip" and slim actor portraying their product (A) and a older, fat, bespectacled, "corporate drone"-like actor portraying the competition (B).
And then let them play it out so that product A is not just better than B, but B also sucks. Like... you know.. big time.

Pure evil!

Re:who cares? (1)

Trracer (210292) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298102)

Mod this up. The blog in the headline is just a bad fanboi expression.

90% discount for threatening to use open source (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298394)

Mod this up. The blog in the headline is just a bad fanboi expression.
Perhaps you would care to comment on the greater than 90% discount that Uppsala received from MS a few years ago on MS Office to prevent it going Open Source in productivity software.

Re:who cares? (5, Informative)

value_added (719364) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298216)

people will choose the software they feel suits their needs best. shockingly it's not always going to be linux.

For your benefit and others who similarly haven't read the article or missed its point entirely, the case study cited in the article involves the city of Upssala that has two networks, one a 150-server Windows network, and the second a 100-server Windows network with some Linux and Netware thrown in. Virus outbreaks and a need for increased control were cited as motivating factors for a change.

The case study goes on about how TrueSec and the city participated in the Microsoft Rapid Deployment Program in order to get Windows Server 2008 pre-release version early. They made a test network, they purchased new hardware, they made a pilot deployment in January 2008 in the city administration network and things are looking ok so far.

So, what do we learn? Firstly, the existing platform was far more of a Windows environment than a Linux one. The Windows-exclusive network was insecure. A third-party company who maintained the network - and who were a Microsoft partner - recommended new features in Windows Server 2008 that would help. So far, the Windows-exclusive network has been partially upgraded.

Hang on? Where's the Linux aspect? Why is this on Microsoft's site? Weren't we promised we'd be told why customers are choosing Windows Server 2008 over Linux?

Oh yeah, there was a single reference hidden away. "If you go with Linux, you can never be sure of what kind of support you're going to get" a server technician said. "Maybe the product is free, but you still have to put in the staff hours to basically support the product yourself."

If there's a "suit one's needs" aspect to any of this, it certainly isn't in the article.

job security (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298654)

I asked our IT dept why they hadn't moved the infrastructure to linux they had two answers. The first, boring but correct, is that for a small company (which we were) MS just integrates too easily. The second answer intrigued me though. No one in the IT dept knows ANY practical linux - it wasn't looked for on CVs or needed day-to-day. Every time the CTO questions linux, they fight against it with the REAL reason being they would be effectively demoted as skilled hires came in above them to support the new systems.
Now THAT's "suiting ones needs"

Re:who cares? (4, Insightful)

totally bogus dude (1040246) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298682)

"Maybe the product is free, but you still have to put in the staff hours to basically support the product yourself."

Sorry to hijack your post, I didn't RTFA but this ticked me off.

They strongly imply that you don't have to support commercial software yourself. As an aside: the fact that companies can go around making these sorts of claims and not get sued into oblivion for blatantly lying to the public (or hell, thrown in jail) says some pretty bad things about the state of our societies, IMHO.

Unless you need someone to babysit you while you do basic tasks with the software, any reasonably competent tech is going to be able to install and use the software, regardless of whether it uses arcane text files or pretty tick boxes to configure it. If you have problems, you search the 'net for it -- chances are good someone else (or a lot of someones) have already encountered and solved the problem. The only times we've ever resorted to paid support from the vendor is when we have a really unusual problem we can't diagnose or fix ourselves; and guess what? The people providing the support are themselves simply reasonably competent (if you're lucky) techs who end up being just as stumped as you.

This means that for servers and infrastructure, paid support is a fucking joke. This bodes poorly for the Open Source companies that want to make money from providing support, but that's just how it is. Maybe it'll work out different when there's actually competition: in theory, since everyone can see the internals there's nothing stopping anyone else from becoming an expert at the software, and anyone can find and fix problems in the code. So possibly for popular software there'd be enough competition to provide paid support that they'd have to be competent and actually fix things, instead of fobbing off the customer until they give up. Maybe the current state of paid support is simply a symptom of monopoly inefficiency.

But I'm not certain about that. At its essence, paid support rewards good marketing of bad software. If the software does what you say it does, does it well, and is straightforward to set up, then there's not going to be any market for support.

<rant>

We use Sharepoint 2007 at work for our websites, and the licensing ain't cheap. Over $50,000 for each internet-facing server, another $20k for SQL 2005, and a bit of change for Windows licenses to run the servers and AD (plus additional licensing for the authoring environment). But that money's just a drop in the bucket compared to the money spent on developers to customize it and training of staff.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft knows this, and that's why they're not afraid to release a half-finished product whose key features (like content deployment) don't actually work. So we spend even more money on their Premier Support service, who proceed to waste my time over the course of several months collecting gigabytes of trace files, doing repetitive "tests" and sending them the error logs (which are, of course, incomplete; seems that part's a bit broken too) and then stalling me for a while until they come up with some other pointless exercise to waste some more of my time.

I'm positive they do this deliberately, because they know that eventually I'll get fed up with getting nowhere and resign myself to working around the defects. As I have, of course. But it's ridiculous that companies can charge you for the software, and then charge you again for (no) help with its problems, and then act like you're getting fantastic value for money.

If I'm getting free support from mailing lists or forums or what have you, then I'm happy to go through all the debugging shit -- installing minimal clean environments to see if the problem is reproducible there, etcetera. It annoys me having to spend my time doing this if I'm paying for support from someone else, though. Isn't that what they're being paid to do?!

</rant>

Re:who cares? (-1, Troll)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298782)

If I'm getting free support from mailing lists or forums or what have you, then I'm happy to go through all the debugging shit -- installing minimal clean environments to see if the problem is reproducible there, etcetera. It annoys me having to spend my time doing this if I'm paying for support from someone else, though. Isn't that what they're being paid to do?!


Let me get this straight. You've deployed a multi-tier, complex product designed around IIS, .NET and SQL Server 2005. It runs under many different combinations and is infinitely configurable. Much of the coding and portal technology involves some sort of development work in-house. You have experienced issues, but you can't work out what they are. It could be one of many issues. Yet you are complaining about a bit of directed debugging?

Seriously, are you for real?

Re:who cares? (3, Interesting)

Mig (15526) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298590)

people will choose the software they feel suits their needs best. shockingly it's not always going to be linux.
You are right, it can also be BSD.

Re:who cares? (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298724)

And sometimes it is Linux which upsets Microsoft so they go out and make up stories to scare people into sticking with Windows.

There is no war (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298008)

The war exists in sites like this where people has nothing better to do than to discuss "what's better"

Both systems work. And work well. What is better? Keep your opinion for yourself and use whatever you want. Keep evangelism foryourself as well, thank you very much.

The word is "buncombe", not "bunkum". (3, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298024)

Doesn't anybody read H. L. Mencken anymore?

-jcr

Re:The word is "buncombe", not "bunkum". (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298428)

Doesn't anybody read anymore?

Re:The word is "buncombe", not "bunkum". (3, Insightful)

wilder_card (774631) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298700)

Geez, man, nobody reads anymore!! Where have you been? When they make this H. L. Mencken guy's book into a movie, maybe people will have heard of him. Of course, it won't help the spelling of "buncombe" unless it's in the movie title.

Microsoft bashing is outdated (3, Insightful)

Bender_ (179208) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298028)

Nothing against a well founded unbiased comparison of different products. But your article already starts off stating that it is purposefully against one of the options. Why should this be any better than the Microsoft press department gibberish?

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (4, Insightful)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298060)

1+(-1) = 0
If we bash there lies then the two should cancel out, unfortunately
1) they're bigger than us
2) this article is preaching to the MS bashing choir, if you want to cancel out their fud you have to buy the same adspots they do, fight them were they fight. If anybody on /. is using MS its due to an informed decision, not some MS bull, so your not going convert anybody posting here. (maybe digg, has a few suckers who fall for MS bull) But most likely you have to buy some ads at PHB.com or preconfiguredservers.com

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (1)

Bender_ (179208) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298116)

How about just having a third party review that compares products according to certain customer applications without using words and phrases suchs as "war", "rallying against", "Rather than", "legitimate comparison", "spin doctors opt for bunkum and hogwash" ,"sensational headlines", "don't have any substance", "blatant lack of integrity displayed"?

Oh, did I just quote the entire article? Surprising how little substance remains after cutting out the polemic.

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298294)

Especially if you arbitrarily redefine everything as polemic. I think you need to look up what that word means.

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (4, Interesting)

Lincolnshire Poacher (1205798) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298318)

> How about just having a third party review that compares products

That is difficult to achieve when, for example, Microsoft and Oracle EULAs prohibit releasing the results of benchmarking.

In Microsoft's case, this prohibition originated with SQL Server and now encompasses any product which uses the .Net frameworks including, apparently, WMP 11.

Fortunately I don't have any such concerns with the software I use, OpenBSD. Does that make me a shill?

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (5, Informative)

Lincolnshire Poacher (1205798) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298414)

Follow-up.

SQL Server remains off-limits for benchmarking. From the EULA for SS2005 Std / Ent:

5. BENCHMARK TESTING. You must obtain Microsoft's prior written approval to disclose to a third party the results of any benchmark test of the software.

However the company has now changed its restrictions for .Net benchmarking. One can release results according to certain ( sane ) requirements on the condition that Microsoft can reciprocally benchmark your software:

Benchmark Testing, Microsoft .NET Framework [microsoft.com]

Still glad I don't use proprietary software.

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298476)

Surprising how little substance remains after cutting out the polemic.

Put a nice big bold-type-and-graphics-rich cover on it and you'd have next month's Wired.

It is called "Tell the truth" nowadays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298390)

The good thing about changing labels: The contents remains the very same.

Re:Microsoft bashing is outdated (1)

crimson30 (172250) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298768)

Nothing against a well founded unbiased comparison of different products. But your article already starts off stating that it is purposefully against one of the options. Why should this be any better than the Microsoft press department gibberish?

Why? Maybe because it contains facts.

Similarly, when proponents of homeopathy/psychic powers/etc put out a study/meta-analysis and skeptics come in basically with their minds already made up, do the facts that they bring up to prove their point somehow become less factual?

I dunno if I'd call it a "war" (0)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298044)

What would happen if you had a war and no one showed up?

You're just as bad... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298052)

...for giving them lots of attention and providing them with free advertising. Now all MS has to do is note how many Linux users are quite unhappy with their findings ("just look at that blog where you read about us!") and voila. My advice? Don't give them any attention, its not worth it.

Swedish public sector (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298092)

As someone who lived and studied in Uppsala and has worked in several places in the public sector in Sweden, I can tell you that there are LOTS of Pointy Haired Bosses and sysadmins theres who are unabashedly Microsoft-philes.

The bosses because they all they know how to use is MS Office and they demand Outlook integration so they can book meetings and keep tabs on employees. Sysadmins because they are often self-taught (from magazines such as Datormagazin [datormagazin.se] and they feel threatened whenever someone suggests using something other than Windows.

Sadly many Swedish universites are in the process of switching to AD.

Re:Swedish public sector (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298496)

Ironically Datormagazin is one of the most Linux friendly Swedish magazines, they even had a 5 page guide for people who wants to switch from Windows to Linux or OSX just a couple of months ago. :)

People who actually read it should have a more nuanced view than the "Microsoft-philes".

Re:Swedish public sector (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298530)

Ironically Datormagazin is one of the most Linux friendly Swedish magazines, they even had a 5 page guide for people who wants to switch from Windows to Linux or OSX just a couple of months ago. :)

Yeah I know, perhaps I was a bit unfair, it is a mixed bag... Programming sections lately though are always just about vb vb vb .net .net .net....

People who actually read it should have a more nuanced view than the "Microsoft-philes".

Thanks, I've read it since issue #1 (the "V" cover) in 1986... when it was about C64. 5 years ago I thought it was very good, but these days I find very little interesting in it. Don't know if I've become better or the quality of the writing has declined.

Pot? Kettle? Black? (4, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298098)

"I've been rallying against Microsoft's so-called 'Get the Facts' site for the last fortnight in my blog. Rather than give any legitimate comparison facing off Windows Server vs similarly spec'd Linux options, the Microsoft spin doctors opt for bunkum and hogwash with sensational headlines that don't have any substance underneath.

Not defending Microsoft, but decrying them using the same tactics you are admonishing them for using probably won't win you any followers that weren't on your side to begin with.

Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? (4, Funny)

icebike (68054) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298134)

That and blog pimping on /. just screams "loser".

If by "the same tactics" you mean (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298408)

Telling people about things.

MS put one example of choosing Windows 2008 over Linux as being a choice of such but it was a choice between Server 2003 and Server 2008.

Does the article show any such similarly irrelevant examples? That would be using the same tactics. E.g. Show a linux-only shop (with a few windows NT boxes) having the NT boxes being moved to linux because NT was going out of support. Find any?

The only similarity in the tactics is to use the internet to get a message out.

That's not much of a tactic, is it.

Re:Pot? Kettle? Black? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298442)

"but decrying them using the same tactics you are admonishing them for using probably"

I think you've got a few too many subjects and a few too many verbs all mixed up in there together.

English motherfucker--can you write it?

In India and many other countries (5, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298110)

It is impossible to get support from Microsoft for a company based in India; even if one is willing to pay money. Microsoft sells Server licenses and Volume licenses and Corporate licenses; but nowhere do they sell Support for server, desktop or home software - atleast in India.

One has to go in for support from Microsoft partners and such, but the MCSEs who work there have little clue as to real problems faced by end users.

It thus makes a lot of sense to invest in Linux-based Open Source solutions because IT users have no use buying just Servers and Licenses - the benefit comes from the applications built on top of the servers.

At a hospital I consult with, for instance; we are replacing the entire in-house VB and .Net based system with a completely open source, open standards compliant system. The company that develops this software provides the necessary support for Linux as well. Unlike frequent virus, service pack and other application compatibility issues on Windows - post-Vista; we are yet to face a single issue with the Linux-based solution over the past 2 years.

I think the "Get The Facts" page from Microsoft should be modified for each country and each industry - a general scenario makes no sense.

Re:In India and many other countries (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298272)

Can't you get premier support in India? That would be a surprise??

http://www.microsoft.com/services/Microsoftservices/srv_premier.mspx [microsoft.com]

Re:In India and many other countries (4, Informative)

jkrise (535370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298468)

As I said, Premier Support is not available from Microsoft India. Support typically comes from Gold partners, and they have no clue about Server technology, choice of platforms, architecture etc., since these are controlled by Microsoft.

Even in rare instances of virus attacks etc, the firewall vendors provide the support and do the cleanup, not Microsoft. And this is the case despite Corporate Volume Licensing.

oh the irony! (3, Funny)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298124)

i just spotted a "Get the facts" google adsense text block at the top of the page, rofl!

Relax (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298146)

"I've been rallying against Microsoft's so-called 'Get the Facts' site for the last fortnight in my blog."
You might get more dates if you stopped saying stupid shit like fortnight instead of 2 weeks.

Re:Relax (1)

gsslay (807818) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298182)

What, too long a word for you?

Seriously, I don't think he's looking for a date from you.

Shocked, I am shocked! (5, Funny)

gsslay (807818) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298150)

You mean to say that a sales and marketing website is manipulating the facts in order to show their product in a better light than competing products?

I am honestly shocked! I commend you on your campaign and congratulate you on your inevitable victory. Microsoft can do nothing but shamefacedly admit their blatant bias here and comply with your demands.

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (5, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298194)

Wait a minute... you're saying people can lie on the internet in order to get me to give them money?

How will I know which male performance enhancing products and Nigerian generals to trust?

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (1)

Gazzonyx (982402) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298432)

As a general rule of thumb, don't trust the ones that contact you. Be weary of the ones you contact.

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (0)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298512)

Be weary of the ones you contact.

If I was that tired, I'd wait I'd got some sleep.

I'm always wary of making fatigue-influenced purchases.

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298350)

There's a difference between embellishing the facts and blatantly lying.

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (3, Funny)

stelios78 (628238) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298354)

I think what people are saying is that a company deliberately lies to its customers(calling this manipulating the facts softens the notion substantially). When a company cannot even get its own customers (who no doubt get substantial discounts to hand out their endorsements) to say the things it wants them to say, you know they are in trouble.

Re:Shocked, I am shocked! (2, Insightful)

archeopterix (594938) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298626)

You mean to say that a sales and marketing website is manipulating the facts in order to show their product in a better light than competing products?
There is a difference between waving something off as "marketing bullshit" and documenting particular manipulations. The former might give you +5 on Slashdot, the latter is more effective in real world.

does anybody read that garbage? (3, Insightful)

nguy (1207026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298154)

That Microsoft site is even more disorganized than the Windows control panel or the .NET documentation.

I think nobody is going to dig through that mess to help them make a decision. The only people who are going to bother with that are Microsoft fanboys trying to justify their OS with "data".

Re:does anybody read that garbage? (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298484)

I'm sorry, did you say it was actually harder to browse the "Compare" site than MSDN? That's... near impossible!

lol (5, Insightful)

Tom (822) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298170)

my request to Microsoft PR to do something about the blatant lack of integrity displayed.
You are questioning MS PR's modus operandi?

The whole thing is a FUD campaign. It's purpose is to be blatant, to lack any integrity, and to cause as much uncertainty and doubt as possible. Yes, that includes doubt about the integrity of MS. Any doubt is good doubt, as long as it stops people from switching to Linux.

Exactly! (5, Funny)

comm2k (961394) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298334)

It's really just that FUD. Go to http://www.microsoft.com/ [microsoft.com] On the upper right is a search field, search for "FUD" - the first or second hit should help you out ;)

Figures (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298174)

You rail against this now, but the Mac ads have been spouting more lies than MS ever has.

Don't look now but your extreme bias is showing.

You mean... (0, Flamebait)

lilfields (961485) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298196)

You mean Microsoft is doing what every other company on earth does in a comparative analysis? That's crazy, it's like what if Apple made a commercial where they assumed all PCs were basically eMachines running Windows 98...I'm so glad they don't do that...oh wait. If you're going to attack advertising campaigns attack everyone who does it (which is everyone) not just the ones you don't like. Then again if you successfully attacked and claimed victory over this advertising method....you wouldn't make much if any money from your blog, considering it's ad driven and your blog is basically just a comparative advertisement anyhow.

Re:You mean... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298466)

You mean it's OK for companies to lie out their arse at people and we should just swallow the bullshit?

Does that mean we can like like shit too, or is it only rich companies allowed to do this?

Or, rather, can we call ANYONE out for lying like a bastard?

Re:You mean... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298676)

You mean it's OK for companies to lie out their arse at people and we should just swallow the bullshit?
-No, it is not OK. But everyone does is it anyway. Only it is not a good long term business policy to lie to your customers.
-No. Nobody forces you to swallow it. Make your own decisions.

Does that mean we can like like shit too, or is it only rich companies allowed to do this?
-Yes. You can like shit too.
-No. Rich companies are allowed to like shit too.

Or, rather, can we call ANYONE out for lying like a bastard?
-Yes, you can call out ANYONE. But ONLY if you call out everyone.
If you cherry-pick who you call out based on your personal preference - you Sir are a pussy.

Re:You mean... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298744)

Hear hear!

I don't fully understand how this is not illegal (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298208)

I would think that a company intentionally spreading misleading information under the guise of facts would be illegal, if only so as to protect consumers. How is this not so?

Re:I don't fully understand how this is not illega (3, Insightful)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298388)

Because the "facts" can be proven.

Remember Linux comes in many flavors Microsoft get to pick and choose.

Re:I don't fully understand how this is not illega (1)

amazeofdeath (1102843) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298392)

Isn't that just called "marketing"?

Re:I don't fully understand how this is not illega (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298792)

Even if it is illegal it is almost impossible to get a judgment against a company the size of MS. A Better Business Bureau wouldn't have the know-how to make a decision either way. It would be a very brave (and wealthy) expert witness who testified against MS.

M$'s "honesty" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298218)

As a mid-term observer of M$ from a business perspective, I must say that virtually every statement out of the company ranges from dishonesty to outright lie. I am not in a position to analyze white papers and technical statements but the occasions on which an honest public statement were made in the last ten-plus years can be easily counted on one hand. It's the arrogance of a company that has, of course, prospered as a result of a monopoly, not because of any consistent quality to its products. (Why should they waste money on making something other than crap unless pressured? That's what a monopoly brings: crap shoved down your throat.)

I'm surprised the poster is surprised by M$'s dishonesty.

Jesus, M$ makes Apple look straight and honest....

Re:M$'s "honesty" (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298494)

Jesus, M$ makes Apple look straight and honest....
Oh hell no. At least Microsoft doesn't claim to be the second coming of Jesus. Try getting Apple to admit that they aren't god's gift to computing.

Re:M$'s "honesty" (1)

Wingsy (761354) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298554)

Maybe they won't admit that they aren't, because they and the vast majority of the people who use them think they are.

The Company of Evangelists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298246)

What do you expect from a marketing company?! For technical expertise you need to look at companies with technical people in it. Not full of 'evangelists'.

They have some bright people, pity they are drowned out by rest of the machine.

Steven.

Re:The Company of Evangelists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298562)

It gets even better. They can't even market well. That is outsourced to a plethora of companies including the infamous Waggoner-Edstrom.

hmm (1)

DerWulf (782458) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298336)

there should be a rule against blatant pushing of blog or other websites that the submitter has any ties to.
Really getting tired of slashdot being an ego deflation device for some people.

I've been rallying against Microsoft's so-called 'Get the Facts' site for the last fortnight in my blog.

Translation: I am a gigantic douche. Why in the hell would you grace what is essentialy marketing with so much attention and why can't you just say "two weeks" for the love of ...

Re:hmm (0, Offtopic)

Eivind (15695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298434)

fortnight is a silly word anyway, to anyone who doesn't know that spesific word it sounds a lot more like 4-nights or even a fourth (i.e. 1/4) night.

First problem: (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298344)

PR to do something about the blatant lack of integrity displayed

Well there's your *first* problem...

Microsoft are shaking in their boots (2, Funny)

asifyoucare (302582) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298364)

Some random guy criticizes Microsoft in his blog. Its the beginning of the end for them I'm sure.

SMBs ... not Enterprises (1)

perlith (1133671) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298416)

This looks like it would probably only lure Small and Medium sized businesses towards Microsoft. And it makes sense, the 60% slice of the TCO piece chart attributed to staffing costs, however true or untrue it might be, simply doesn't beat the fact that Windows is more intuitive than Linux in a lot of ways.

I'd be surprised if few Enterprises are going to visit this website and be impressed. Rather, they are going to rely on unbiased, comprehensive, independent research sources before making their decisions.

Uppsala (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298478)

Wasn't Uppsala the city with university forcing professors to leave using strange methods because did not have the same opinion as the leaders of the university?

Ah. Marketing - my specialist subject (2)

vorlich (972710) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298490)

After years of study I feel only one voice has summed up this entire academic discipline:
Tyler Durden: "Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."

Dear davidmwilliams & other zealots... (5, Interesting)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298492)

...as primarily a Linux user myself who works as a consultant in a telecoms company where most of our products are already running on Linux, can you please stop with this stupid idea that Linux is "at war" with Microsoft or Windows?

Linux is an operating system, and a very good one at that, but please treat everyone else like adults who are capable of making their own minds up as to what OS they want to run. Fine, if they choose not to consider Linux then so be it, let it be their loss but let them get on with it.

Unless you are fighting for open file standards (so Linux can interoperate on par with Windows) or pushing back on DRM, you will do more harm than good to Linux and the Open Source movement because you will appear as nothing more than a religious zealot.

It's quite clear that recently, Microsoft is quite capable of putting its own foot in its mouth without your assistance.

So I would strongly suggest your energies would be put to better use giving assistance to those who have just started to explore Linux - help them along with it, make their experience with it easier & firmly dissuade them from any thoughts that Linux people are not lunatic hippies but actually nice helpful people.

Linux exists DESPITE Microsoft, not BECAUSE of Microsoft and it will still be here in years to come whether Microsoft is here or not.

Perl/PHP Screencasts (1)

warlorddagaz (1242518) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298514)

"Our good friend Firefox" - that would be friends in the the same way as the Jedi and the Sith I presume.

For what it's worth.. (0)

RichiH (749257) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298570)

..'Uppsala' is something a Bavarian might say after making a mistake. Think Homer's 'doh'.

microsoft doesn't buy its own hype (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23298692)

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.getthefacts.com [netcraft.com]

The site is running IIS 6 on Win2k3 Server, an upgrade from IIS 5 they only made four months ago - look at the history. It's a solid, reliable upgrade choice, IMO, they did very well staying away from Server 2008.

bunkum and hogwash?! (3, Funny)

mike_sucks (55259) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298728)


I say pish-posh to that!

/Mike

The sub made a blatant plug for his own blog (1)

dave1791 (315728) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298746)

1 - Make a slashdot sub plugging your own blog with a bit of flaimbait.

2 - Get slashdotted.

3 - Profit!

If you buy Windows, you don't know... (4, Interesting)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#23298796)

I've posted about this before, but if you buy Windows you don't know what support you're going to get. When we installed our first Windows domain servers we bought two servers and enough client licenses for our user base, and it was good. Then we upgraded from NT 3.1 to NT 3.51 and we started getting users kicked out because we didn't have enough licenses. So we called Microsoft, and they told us to make some changes to our license settings, and we did that, and EVERYONE started getting kicked out. Nobody could log in to the domain. So we called Microsoft back and they said, oh no, we'd used up the three free support calls, now we had to get a support contract, they were sorry that it was their fault they'd made things worse but they couldn't do anything about that... policy was policy, even if our whole domain was broken...

So I asked on Usenet, got the right answer, and everything was working fine the next week when someone more senior from Microsoft called VERY apologetically and saying they'd reset our calls. For all I know they're still waiting for me to make 'em... because since then I've gone for the free "you don't know what you're going to get" support FIRST and it's always come through.
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