China's Cyberwar Against India 227
An anonymous reader writes "China's cyber warfare army is marching on, and India is suffering silently. Over the past one and a half years, officials said, China has mounted almost daily attacks on Indian computer networks, both government and private, showing its intent and capability."
Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:4, Funny)
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US Spy Incident (Score:2)
Re:US Spy Incident (Score:5, Informative)
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Anyone know what the "US spy incident" is that is mentioned at the end of the article?
A US diplomat Rosanne Minchew who was part of a joint Indo-US Cyber Security Initiative, was asked to leave the country and three Indian working with her were jailed for leaking documents from National Security Council. NSC is like a clearing house of all intelligence inputs and apparently they leaked India's nuclear plans, Naval plans for the Indian Ocean etc. You can read more here http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/7712.html [indianexpress.com] http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/04spy.htm [rediff.com] http://www.indosec.org/Hi [indosec.org]
Of all the countries.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Of all the countries.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly, the best and the brightest do not stay behind and come to the US or go to other western countries instead, often because of an educational system that is so heavily biased through reservations [wikipedia.org] (similar to affirmative action).
Finally, those that do stay behind are better off in the private sector, rather than the extremely corrupt public sector where bribes and nepotism are the order of the day. Or perhaps academia.
So, no, doing well in the IT sector has been a function of being in the right place at the right time (and speaking the right language and having a currency that is a fraction of the US dollar). This is not to say that there isn't technology talent in India -- but rather that like the rest of the world, there is good, bad and ugly. Only, given that there are a billion people, lots of people in each category.
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Quite possibly they may not get (or even need) the former. They may well get plenty of good opportunities through the old boys/girls network regardless of education or qualifications.
Look at American boardrooms, and observe what proportion of people there came
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Reservations are based for people belonging to the "lower castes" to supposedly make up for discriminations in the past. As a result, if you are born into one of the "upper castes", it becomes harder for you to compete for a limited number of positions (educational institutions, government jobs etc).
Worse yet, this reservation is not based on financial status, so while you may be a poor Brahmin, you will still be treated as an upper caste and fight the quota. On
Re:Of all the countries.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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government attack or botnet? (Score:5, Interesting)
My server gets nailed daily from China but I doubt their government knows anything about it so I'm finding these stories a bit paranoid.
My Question Exactly! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Not necessarily. Possibly China wants to demonstrate its power.
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Mebbe India needs to call an IT helpdesk? (Score:2)
dave
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BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:5, Insightful)
According to sources in the government, Chinese hackers are acknowledged experts in setting up BOTS. A BOT is a parasite program embedded in a network, which hijacks the network and makes other computers act according to its wishes, which, in turn, are controlled by "external" forces.
BOTS? Really? As in BOTnets? Shows how much of a CLUE the journalist who wrote this has.
Re:BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:5, Funny)
Those bots reached self conscience after goldfarming wow for about ten thousand hours.
Their first action was to attack India.
For the loot.
Re:BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:4, Insightful)
BOTS? Really? As in BOTnets? Shows how much of a CLUE the journalist who wrote this has.
With respect, the journalist is trying to write for a general, non-technical audience of newspaper readers. If we had a few journalists here who were willing to try to explain technical issues at a basic level, we might have fewer computers ending up compromised.
Indirect attack on the US (Score:2, Interesting)
to obtain that information than to attack a third party with less defenses.
Re:Indirect attack on the US (Score:5, Insightful)
China has many pressing reasons to be interested in India that have nothing whatsoever to do with the USA: thousands of miles of disputed borders, for one, and rivalry in the race for economic and political influence as both nations develop. The fact that a handful of US-based companies may be storing information in Indian databases probably doesn't even make it into the top 50 reasons why China might want to conduct cyberwaar in India, let alone the top 10...
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Please provide some links to back up this assertion.
Until then, wake up and smell the world revolving around us.
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What's stored in outsourced datacenters is mostly customer data. You know, names, addresses, credit card numbers, social security numbers - the stuff you can find for sale in the underground for a few cents.
For the valuable data, like technology, the chinese have developed a much better way to get at it - cooperatives between chinese companies and western companies who absolutely want to produce in or sell to China. You know, you can't just open a factory in China. You have to cooperate wi
Why won't they just... (Score:3, Interesting)
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There may be a good side (Score:2)
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Only thing is while the lower government depts have moved to linux, the higher functionaries are too stupid to understand anything but windows.
So the chain is weakest where it should be strongest.
How do they tell who's attacking? (Score:5, Interesting)
hmmmm. (Score:2)
Nor would we spew out spam that says
Want to increase your size? Da, of course your girlfriends wants you to. You must bath in Lake Bakal for that
So again not ours.
No, we would spit spam that says that you must buy from McDonalds or Burger King. Oh Damn, that is our spam.
China will do as it pleases (Score:2, Insightful)
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They know full well they're on their way to being the next super power and everyone relies on them for pretty much everything.
As China modernizes, workers wages having been coming up.
Workers rights, environmental protections, etc are now coming into play, further driving up costs.
Businesses are starting to leave China and are moving to other Asian countries where wages & costs are lower.
Here's one example [alibaba.com] and there are plenty more like it.
AFAIR Estonia ... (Score:3, Interesting)
AFAIR (as far as I remember) that attack on Estonia has been performed by one guy. Yes, some servers used in the attack were based in Russia. Yes, a lot of zombies around the world has been used in the attack. And yes this guy's nationality was Russian, but the guy has been citizen of Estonia.
But abovementioned officials may have far more information. Maybe the guy was a citizen of Estonia but secretly employed by his mother Russia. Who knows?
I call BS (Score:4, Insightful)
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"x terrorist" label starting to piss me off (Score:5, Interesting)
Language abuse in general... (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you the bleeding vehicular terrorist who tried to sideswipe me coming up to the tollbooth on the beltway last week?
OK, all joking aside... I agree that terms like "terrorist" are being abused, though really it's the word "war" that's the problem. The US government declares a "war on" something vague and undefiniable, and all of a sudden the constitution is tossed out of the window. Whether the opponents are labeled
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Bloody vocabulary terrorists.
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Quite correct. That term should be reserved for rapists.
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Speculative article (Score:4, Informative)
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/17/1248215&tid=172 [slashdot.org]
He states it was a targetted attack by the Russian government, but fails to mention that a 20 year old student was fined for the whole affair:
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/25/0120221 [slashdot.org]
Not saying that it wasn't the russian government, it would have been easy to create a scapegoat for them, but not mentioning this in the article makes it very easy to doubt if the author actually considered if this was really a government run attack or just some Chinese individual being pissed off with India.
Re:Speculative article (Score:4, Informative)
They are known for crapifying everything. They even plagiarized Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] for sports section!
You will make me read technology related news on ToI when you pry my eyes from my cold, dead body.
Cut the lines? (Score:2)
Sure, they have agents abroad who could trigger a botnet. Still, shouldn't any concerted use of the Internet in warfare be met by a total severance of the nation making that use from the Internet, not just in the short term, but forever?
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As much as I'd like to cut the bastards off too, it would affect world economy in a drastic manner and provide the Chinese government with a really good excuse to start br
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It's easier than you think... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-07.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-08.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-15.pdf [cia.gov]
Highlights include:
#CPI(M) [Communist Party of India Marxist] heavyweight HK Surjeet influenced by Communist Soviet Russia to setup an underground organization
#CPI(M) did proceed to recruit a secret organization within the Indian Army.
#China and Soviet Russia both insisted that the CPI(M) must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces.
#With the People's Liberation Army now present along the Indian Border the Indian Party had a channel of support for Armed Operations and a potential "liberator" in the event of mass uprisings - 13 Sept 1959
#4 powerful radio sets had been installed in the office of the China Review in Calcutta to listen to broadcasts from Beijing
#Chinese Financial Subsidies to sections of the CPI(M) particularly the left faction strongholds in West Bengal
#A foreign supply base was now available for the underground organizations with the Chinese occupation of Tibet and other frontier areas.
#Letter asking for collaboration in Indian underground organization work aimed at an eventual revolution, because China has a border with India and can provide arms and supplies.
#Also Jaipal Singh, head of the illegal organization within the Indian Army decided to reactivate his organization in 1961 following the hard left faction gaining control of the party.
In addition, the Communist Party of India have successfully carried out several pogroms and genocides against Hindus and Tibetan refugees in India, particularly during the 70's and 80's, all as part of a Trotskyist strategy of maintaining a state of "permanent revolution" (the most recent one being the Nandigram SEZ Massacre), all at the behest of their Chinese paymasters.
China has also aggressively sponsored the terrorist Naxalite Communist terror movement in India by financing major Communist radicals (ethnic Bengali Bolshevists like Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal received training from Chinese war camps in Tibet only to subsequently lead the naxalite reign of terror across India's "Red Corridor").
For a developing country, India is too damn democratic. If India was more authoritarian it would have taken care of such subversive Communist elements a long time ago, but India's democracy is it's greatest weakness, particularly when it is surrounded by totalitarian regimes like Pakistan and China that represent a major existential threat to the country.
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's also been said (something like) China went straight from communism to corporatism, bypassing democracy.
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
I don't know why it doesn't bug any of y'all that anytime someone starts a communist country it invariably degenerates into something all the leftists say looks like fascism. Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I subscribe to the line of thinking that every political organization - regardless of the initial system - inevitably becomes an oligarchy. It's not only happened in China, but it's happened in Russia and the United States as well.
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
Well, given that, in communism, the workers are the ones running things, it does make it exceedingly unlikely.
Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
Or maybe it just proves that communism, as a pure idiology, doesn't work in the real world (kinda like pure, free-market capitalism), devolving into *other* forms of government, such as fascism or totalitarianism. But that doesn't change the fact that China is *not* a communist state, based on the definition of the term "communism".
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Depends on which industry. There are many independent corporations in China, only the major utilities are 100% state owned. Most businesses in china are small business owned by random people. Large factories and other such businesses are also more often independent then state run. You may want to revise your opinions with some facts.
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China was never a communist state. It has always been and still is an oligarchical dictatorship built on the backs of a massive slave class.
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Oh... they have instituted a Social Security system a few years ago. Unfortunately, they model it after the failing U.S. social security.
And now they are on track to create a public health system, after public outcry over a case in which the patiet was charged 5 million Yuan (US$400K) over a 5 month stay in the hospital before dying. Just hope they don't model it after the U.S. system again.
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in the former, lemon is there, its in the context of the restaurant and they have it ready. in the latter, the entire context of restaurant is different, also they have no chopsticks in readiness.
this is not local custom or anything, plain old dishes.
what i see is, not me, but many overly politically correct people are being way too prejudiced
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these were real experiences (Score:2)
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It's actually far more likely that they think you're a rude twit and refuse to comply with your demands for lemon. Having visited Beijing twice in 2005/2006 I can attest most restaurants are more then willing to cater to my order. I've gotten lemon added to my drinks, instructed them on how to make a bloody mary (since clamato is scarce there I wasn't able to get a ceasar, had them swap things around in their dished to accomadate my Cantonese/Canadian tastes.
its not me. its a much amiable person than me, one of the members in a community i belong, who actually resides and studies in beijing and goes sightseeing around in the meantime.
the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
north korea is officially called "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". north korea is also just about the least democratic country in the world. meaning: you shouldn't trust official names
at one time, yes, china was a communist country that practiced communist ideology. that was a long time ago. it is more exact today to say the china is perhaps the most capitalist country in the world, rivalling the gilded ages of victorian times in the usa, when capitalism ran amok with very few legal constraints. such that you had monopolies, child labor, pinkerton gangs hobbling the kneecaps of unionists, etc back then in the usa. now in china you have pretty much the same thing. in china now there are multibillionaires and starving peasants on a scale of ultrarich cities versus grueling impoverished countryside like nowhere else except perhaps the rich gulf arab oil states
china is not a worker's paradise anymore, it is a capitalist's paradise, because there are no pesky democratic impulses in the political sphere to interfere with the pure unadulterated pursuit of the almighty buck. its pure autocracy, technocracy, pure capitalism. china is one giant corporation now
that the country is officially run by something called the "Communist Party of China" is just sort of a cosmic ironic joke at this point
Re:the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember an article while back comparing modern day China to what Fascist Italy would have been like had the Axis won the war.
Ah here it is... http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=31 [benadorassociates.com]
That pretty much sums this up. They wave Red Flags and Sell Red Books, but no one is a real communist anymore in government.
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Re:the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really, though. Capitalism only works when there's rule of law, and free communication. To the extent that China echoes any of the late 19th century stuff you mentioned (killer gangs taking out the competition, etc), that's not capitalism. More like fuedalism. China's oppressive central government is anything but the lubricant of capitalism - it's the protector of a condition in which there is abundant cheap labor. That is the engine of that country's house-of-cards economic growth. If the factory workers there started actually operating at a middle-class level, the growth would grind to a halt for the lack of cheap workers to keep making the stuff they're selling to the rest of the world at a handsome profit. After much turbulence, they're going to end up looking just like Europe or North America... fishing around for cheap labor from countries that are still a few steps behind, with their competitive edge diminishing. Next stop, Myanmar, where thousands living in primitive conditions just died in a storm. Countries like that will - for a while - become the source of cheap labor, until THEY get their act together.
China's reliving the entire history of the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries as experienced by the western world, but over the course of a couple of decades. And with an enormous population. It's going to be an economic, ecological, and cultural train wreck. But for now, we can sure get some cheap motherboards, teak garden furniture, and t-shirts!
very true (Score:3, Interesting)
look at your average corporation: on the inside of the corporation it is run like an autocracy, or an oligarchy, just liek china is. the average corporation exists within a capitalist framework, but capitalism has nothing to do with how the corporation functions on the inside
and so it is with china: view china as
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The difference between the relationship that I might have with China, and that which I might have with, say, General Motors or Apple Computer, is still fundamentally different. If GM or Apple were caught routinely lying about how they do business, or were routinely shipping out tainted goods, or were routinely busted trying to break into DoD computers or running large counterfeit goods operations... they'd be OUT of business, and the people making those de
well (Score:5, Interesting)
how things work inside china is police state: you have no rights to expression, to vote, to the press, or anything other than work. every aspect of your media is controlled by the government, every aspect of your expression is censored and unapproved expression (talking ill of your government, oppressed minorities, or even just pornography places you at the jeopardy of being punished)
so this is indeed not capitalism. it is merely life inside the corporate structure. a corporation exists within a captalist framework, but life INSIDE the corporation, how things work inside the machine, are not capitalistic, they are autocratic, an oligarchy (i called china an autocracy, it would be more accurate to call it an oligarchy: it is not run by one grumpy old man, but a gang of grumpy old men)
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you are a proud member (Score:2)
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Gotta respectfully disagree here. Capitalism pays out for those with the better marketing and legal departments... Carly Fiorina, individually, or Apple, company-wise as wonderful examples.
i choose country C (Score:2)
but ignore me dude. i'm obviously a neocon apologist agent of the illumnati come to cast aspersions on your blindingly keen insights into our contemporary media landscape
don't let me interfere with your cutting grasp of the current state of the secret world domination conspiracy
they've fooled everyone but YOU! YOU ALONE KNOW THE TRUTH. BUT NOW THEY AR
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Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Informative)
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Kewel. It's good to know that. I can now relax knowing that you are not a racist but are a spiritualist kinda a neo hippie. Thanks.
I, on the other hand, think tuna are evil.
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additionally im spiritualist, kinda a neo hippie. but chinese are annoying me with all kinds of aggression they are practicing.
Ok, you say you're not racist.
Then you seem to present the facts of being spiritualist and neo-hippie as a way of proving you have no prejudices against Chinese people. Do you consider Chinese people to be spiritualist and neo-hippie?
You also assign the behavior of a government to all the people that only share the geographical location of their birth. Are you saying that all Chinese people are committing acts of aggression?
If I were you, I'd seriously consider my thinking patterns.
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At least in America, we vote for our current administration, where are the Chinese do not get that luxury.
Just saying, that in a Democracy, such as the US, it is more appropriate to refer to things the government does, as the will of the people. Because well, the majority of people who vote, voted that administration in. Where as, in places like China, the will of the people is no represented by the Government.
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Are you sure? If so who's fault is it that the Chinese Govt. doesn't represent the will of the people?
Yes and No (Score:2)
In fact, I have been amazed that with all this "open" questions being asked of candidates over the news service, that we are not
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Chinese have organized protests against Western companies. Carrefour in particular was targeted because of rumors that a major shareholder was contributed to the Dalai Lama.
The people are upset about the reaction the West has had over Tibet. And these protests haven't just occurred in China, but in Western nations where those Chinese aren't under c
Is that you Dude? (Score:2)
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--
To save a tree, kill a castor!
Signed: Green Piss