Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

101 comments

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447360)

Suckers!

..,that'll make it to your desktop... (0, Redundant)

bobwrit (1232148) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447370)

no, it will make it to my laptop...

Re:..,that'll make it to your desktop... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447952)

no, it will make it to my laptop...
Unless the editors have changed this, it says your machine. Way to read the summary, stud.

Oh, and unless you are running trdos on that laptop, it probably has a desktop environment upon which said items will be installed.

Hey guys, what's up? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447460)

FFFFFFFff
FfF
FfFFF
FfF
FFf
fff

PPppppp
PP PPp
PP ppp
ppppp
ppp
ppP

GRUB GUI? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447468)

Adding a GUI to the upcoming GRUB 2 because its black and white terminal interface is scary? Doesn't GRUB already have a GUI? That pretty blue screen at bootup?

Re:GRUB GUI? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447498)

Blue screen at bootup?

Must... resist... urge... to make... Windows BSOD.... joke... aaaaaaargh!

Re:GRUB GUI? (4, Insightful)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447760)

Editing menu.lst hardly qualifies as a GUI.

Re:GRUB GUI? (5, Interesting)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448928)

The "Legacy" version of GRUB (latest release is 0.97), currently used by most Linux distributions, has been patched by various distros to support background images in a graphical console mode. However, there is no support in GRUB 2, where all GRUB development is currently taking place. I am going to add a basic GUI to GRUB that will surpass the patches for GRUB 0.9x in portability and flexibility. Once the graphical menu support is added (my GSoC'08 project), adding mouse support will be relatively straightforward... ;-) From http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-soc.html [gnu.org] under "Fancy menu interface":

This feature is really important for GRUB 2, because GRUB Legacy has been patched by third parties frequently, as the official version never support a graphical interface, but such an interface attracts more casual users. Support for a fancy menu - even better than an unofficial patch for GRUB Legacy - would attract more people to GRUB 2, thus this is critical in a long term to accelerate the development.
I plan to make the code portable to non-x86 architectures (though at first VESA VBE 2.0 on PC architecture will be the only supported video driver). More details at: http://gibibit.com/grub-gsoc/proposal.html [gibibit.com]

Re:GRUB GUI? (1)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448938)

BTW, in case you didn't pick it up, I'm the student developing the GRUB GUI for GSoC'08... :-)

Re:GRUB GUI? (5, Funny)

gslavik (1015381) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449786)

BTW, in case you didn't pick it up, I'm the student developing the GRUB GUI for GSoC'08... :-)
stop reading slashdot and get to writing code!

Re:GRUB GUI? (1)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450942)

stop reading slashdot and get to writing code!
Hey, I heard that from my mom enough as a kid!

Re:GRUB GUI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23450878)

But why? Now my bootloader gets to be bloatware, too? How does this help those of us with machines that only have serial ports? What about servers where you have to deal with redirection devices that often suck when you have to involve mouse support?

I admit I have not used GRUB 2, but the graphical mode of the GRUB shipped by most distros is absolutely painful the moment it needs to scroll the display.

Just more desktop-oriented stuff that make me continue to not recommend Linux as a server OS.

Re:GRUB GUI? (1)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23452420)

Whoa, there, cowboy. The plain Jane text mode GRUB interface is not going away. Just don't "insmod gfxmenu" and you'll be fine.

Psh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447480)

It appears that those new programs still can't handle the /. effect.

E17? (4, Insightful)

Doobian Coedifier (316239) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447492)

Cross-platform is now officially the hottest thing for desktop environments. First, KDE announced that KDE 4 was being ported to Windows and OS X. Now, the lesser known Enlightenment project is doing the same thing. Student Dzmitry Mazouka is now porting the Ewl and Etk libraries to the Win32 platform.
How about finishing Enlightenment 0.17? I've been waiting for almost 8 years now...

Re:E17? (5, Funny)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447496)

Then get to it, damnit.

Re:E17? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447918)

Oh yes, real "insightful". Everybody on slashdot expects everyone to be able to code.

Next time your car breaks down, you need to do major home repairs or a family member needs surgery, "get to it, damnit".

Re:E17? (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447974)

Except, I'll pay my car mechanic. Hey if you want, you can PAY ME, and I'll work on E17.

Re:E17? (2, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448008)

Spot on, man. Everyone expresses this viewpoint with open-source software, but it's not very insightful. In fact, it's very trite. Not many of us are able to just get down and code something when we feel the need to have it.

Moreover, it's a perfectly valid point to say that the developers should finish their software before worrying about porting it. The desire for cross-platform compatibility is good, but meaningless if your software is incomplete because of it.

Re:E17? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449816)

It would be if you paid for them to make their work. Aslong as you don't it's up to them to do whatever they feel like, and if some guy wants to port parts of enlightenment to Windows it's in his own right, why the fuck should he care about where you would like him to spend his time?

Re:E17? (4, Insightful)

an.echte.trilingue (1063180) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448014)

The difference is that you are going to pay somebody to do those things. Enlightenment is done as a hobby, and it still manages to come up with some pretty cool stuff that works its way into somebody's code or maybe even a finished DE someday. However, complaining that unpaid hobbyists should abandon what they enjoy doing to in favor of pursuing your priorities is like asking the guy how lives next door who builds hotrods for fun to come and fix your toyota. If you want them to finish E17 that bad, either pay them to do it or do it yourself.

Oh, and before I get that troll who says that this is the problem with open source, I would like to point out that the "hobby" development is not typical of open source software; most people who work on OSS get paid to do it (for example, by redhat, novell, mysql, sun, ibm, trolltech [now owned by nokia] etc.)

Re:E17? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23448552)

The difference is that you are going to pay somebody to do those things.
In the case of surgery, of course, I don't pay a penny directly; healthcare is a public service, so the way I pay for it is through my taxes. Sometimes I wonder whether open-source software should also recieve public funds, though I have to admit I can't think of any good way that could possibly be arranged...

Re:E17? (2, Interesting)

dkf (304284) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449014)

Sometimes I wonder whether open-source software should also recieve public funds, though I have to admit I can't think of any good way that could possibly be arranged...
It happens already with some open-source software packages. Typically, when this is happening, it is because that software is also serving other purposes than being open-source (e.g. providing some key piece of software infrastructure that a government needs and which commercial providers don't offer yet). On the other hand, I'd hate for taxes to be the only way that OSS gets funded; if there's something I want doing a lot, I should be allowed to pay for it to be written. A mixed funding ecology (what we have now to a first approximation) is probably best.

Re:E17? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449844)

Not 100% related but one thing which I find weird with such things are how money from radio stations and such are distributed. Over here you pay a fee for being able to use all artists work, but how are that money distributed? Probably to the well known artists? But as a small artist / person who just makes some tunes, do you get any money? Probably not. Why not?

Similair in this case, people who produce commercial software may complain that they should get some kind of fee because others copies their work without paying, but what about the people who don't sell their software? Shouldn't they get some money aswell in that case?

Re:E17? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449860)

Btw, what a cool world it would be if we all paid together to get things done (tm) and then all could share the benefits and knowledge without patents and closed source... Knowledge, medicine and code available for everyone.

But I guess those kinds of ideas don't fit well with the communism hating americans of Slashdot :)

Re:E17? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23448554)

I have never done this before but here it is:

The difference is that you are going to pay somebody to do those things. Enlightenment is done as a hobby and no amount of money will change the developer's attitude towards it, and it still manages to come up with some pretty cool stuff, that is never used because it is never actually ready to be used (and frequently goes away too), that works its way into somebody's code or maybe even a finished DE someday (just kidding).

One day I will be able to come up with a good car analogy.

Re:E17? (5, Funny)

dfedfe (980539) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447522)

Patience.

It is this very attachment and craving that keeps you from attaining it.

Re:E17? (1)

greeze (985712) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448560)

Parent post needs more love. Where are my moderator points when I need them?

Re:E17? (2, Interesting)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447678)

I've been using the CVS for three years now and have encountered instability extremely rarely. I don't know if raster will ever actually make an official release, but e17 is the best window manager I've ever used even if it is still in a development limbo.

Re:E17? (2, Informative)

shish (588640) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449056)

One of the 20-odd libraries it uses reached 1.0 status last week \o/

Re:E17? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23456426)

Does that mean it is time to replace that library and code something new from scratch?

Re:E17? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23449232)

who gives a crap about OS X and windoze? I'm happy with ubuntu, gnome and my wobbly windows. what else could i possibly need?

7 slots for DragonFlyBSD (3, Informative)

3seas (184403) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447504)

http://wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.cgi/GoogleSoC2008 [dragonflybsd.org]

DragonFly Projects

Enhance dma

        * Max Lindner, mentored by Matthias Schmidt
        * See EnhanceDmaGSoC for more information

Port DragonFly to the AMD64 architecture

        * Jordan Gordeev, mentored by Thomas E. Spanjaard
        * See AMD64GSoC for more information.

RFC3542 support

        * Dashu Huang, mentored by Hasso Tepper
        * The standard application program interface (API) for TCP/IP applications is the "sockets" interface. Although this API was developed for Unix in the early 1980s, it has also been implemented on DragonFly BSD with support for IPv6 applications. Today, to fit new demands, the API standard that support IPv6 applications has experience some changes from RFC2292 to RFC3542. However, the DragonFly BSD operating system now only support RFC2292, and it don't support RFC3542 advanced sockets API, to make it catch up the change, we need to make it support RFC3542. To make DragonFly BSD support RFC3542. My work will research the codes of current IPv6 stack in DragonFly BSD and understand how it works. At the same time, I should understand some related RFC, and how other BSD's such as FreeBSD, openBSD, merged RFC3542. Through this way, I can figure out which part of the old IPv6 stack should be improved. Finally,I will update the old IPv6 stack to make it support RFC3542.

Extend Multi-Processing (MP) support

        * Robert Luciani, mentored by Simon Schubert
        * Back in 2003 when DragonFly was born, the first subsystem to be implemented was the LWKT. The reduction in complexity achieved by using message passing (as opposed to a shared memory environment using locks) was undeniable. What was also "unlocked" though, was the potential for near linear performance scaling on multiple CPU systems. Unfortunately many kernel systems, such as the network stack, need to be modified to take advantage of this potential, since they are still encumbered by a legacy "Big Giant Lock". In this project I will remove the MP lock in important areas of the kernel that have a direct affect on the performance of popular programs such as PostgreSQL.

Proportional share userland scheduling algorithm

        * Mayur Narayan Bhosle, mentored by Jeffrey Hsu
        * Proportional share algorithms like lottery scheduling, Stride scheduling algorithm guarantee proportional share of resources like (CPU) to a processes as per their requirement stated specified during the start. The traditional schedulers achieve fairness or resource allocation by adjusting priority, but the effect is observed over a long term. But instead in case of proportional share schedulers we observe the fairness of allocation over a bounded period of time when we adjust the requirement of resources dynamically.

Anticipatory disk I/O scheduler

        * Nirmal Thacker, mentored by Simon Schubert
        * This project aims at developing an Anticipatory Disk I/O scheduler for DragonFlyBSD. An Anticipatory Disk I/O scheduler will ensure that an anticipation heuristic will nullify all possible deceptive idleness between consecutive disk accesses and at the same time try to maintain an overall good throughput. In the DragonFly BSD operating system it must also take into consideration the MP- safety factors.

LiveCD with a DragonFly-specific X desktop

        * Louisa Luciani, mentored by Sascha Wildner
        * In this project I will integrate more functionality into the nrelease build system. The build will generate a persistent liveCD with Dragonfly specific features. It will be customized for recovery, demonstration and testing and include a good default installation.

Links

        * http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ [google.com]

Re:7 slots for DragonFlyBSD (2, Insightful)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 6 years ago | (#23454174)

Thank you for pointing this out. TFA is fluff, and doesn't cover the real OS projects SoC really focuses on. The only things TFA lists that may affect me are the grub improvements, and maybe some of the file converters.

But, DFBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, GNU/Hurd, etc., all have SoC projects that go towards making the OS better. A good example would be the new tmpfs for NetBSD, which has now been ported to FreeBSD.

stop hating on mplayer (5, Interesting)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447526)

Since VLCs firefox plugin is incompatible with noscript, I've started using mplayer, and as its modular (unlike VLC) I can also throw almost anything at it (actually I can throw more at it as it handles realmedia too). As for interfaces well i personally think Kmplayer beats VLC hands down as a media player too.

I also dont understand the need for a frontend to aptitude, apt + front end is just as powerful, its only dependency resolution that hasn't been well implemented in other front ends.

Re:stop hating on mplayer (2, Informative)

kdekorte (8768) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447592)

Have you ever tried the updated version of mplayerplug-in?

Gecko-mediaplayer (browser plugin) and gnome-mplayer (clean GTK GUI for mplayer that gecko-mediaplayer uses over dbus) really try and give the best browser plugin support for firefox on linux.

You can find out more about them here: http://dekorte.homeip.net/download/ [homeip.net]

Re:stop hating on mplayer (1)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448522)

Yeah I've never actually had VLC installed on my computer.

Mplayer does everything I need to do and quite a few things I dont need to do. ;)

Re:stop hating on mplayer (2, Informative)

Chris Pimlott (16212) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450632)

I like them both. But to get back to the subject of browser plugins, while the mplayer plugin is miles ahead of VLC on UI friendliness, I have to give VLC top marks on performance.

mplayer seems very conservative about pre-buffering before starting playback and doesn't seem to change anything when I try to adjust the buffer size in preferences. It doesn't always respond directly to commands (like play, or seeking in a stream), which often sets it to more buffering (even when it already seemed to have loaded). Whereas VLC tends to start playback pretty quickly (without running into buffer underruns).

It is a shame, though, that there is literally no UI to speak of for the VLC plugin. Either the video is playing or you're looking at black window reading "(no video)".

Re:stop hating on mplayer (1)

IpalindromeI (515070) | more than 6 years ago | (#23463160)

I also dont understand the need for a frontend to aptitude, apt + front end is just as powerful

Aptitude is a front end to apt, so technically your statement is correct. Basically the hierarchy goes: dpkg -> apt -> aptitude/apt-get/synaptic/dselect/etc.

Aptitude is already far more powerful than apt-get and dselect, and probably more powerful than synaptic (although I haven't used synaptic, so I couldn't say for certain). This project is intended to add a graphical interface, to compliment the curses and command line interfaces.

definitely be making their way onto your machine (3, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447538)

Nope. I see nothing there that will be on my machine in the foreseeable future.

Re:definitely be making their way onto your machin (2, Interesting)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447640)

Agreed, the only thing that sparked any interest from that list was GRUB2, which isn't really even on the list, just some crappy fancy nonsense theme thing for it...

Me and GRUB have never gotten along, but maybe me and GRUB2 will...

Aside from that, that list is just a bunch of Gadgets/Widget/Nonsense... im not sure why the Editor/Poster just didnt do a write-up and link to http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ [google.com] or something a little more diverse and interesting.

Re:definitely be making their way onto your machin (2, Insightful)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447736)

Until grub2 has a security module so that i can lock down what you can boot too, im happy with grub, even if grub2 looks nice.

Hell i have 1 second time-out & hidden menu so i never see it anyway, grub doesn't need any nice interface as it shouldn't need to be seen other than when you have a problem in which case a nice UI just adds another thing to go wrong.

Re:definitely be making their way onto your machin (4, Insightful)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449062)

A nice UI may be more important for a Live CD install/rescue disk, for instance, where there are many choices, and you want it to simple to use and self-explanatory for any user booting the disk. Also, GRUB 2 uses dynamically loadable modules for virtually everything, so you can just not load the future 'gfxmenu' module if you like. Then it will consume no memory and will not be a possible source of problems.

Get GRUB2 production ready first... (3, Insightful)

i_love_unix (1123543) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448104)

Personally, I would prefer it if somebody would get GRUB 2 "production ready" first, instead of making fancy GUI menus for it.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd really like the ability to boot from LVM and get proper EFI support (though not really an issue until EFI is in wide distribution for x86) without having to install an experimental package.

It's a bootloader, guys. Functional first, form later.

Re:Get GRUB2 production ready first... (4, Insightful)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449012)

Many GRUB developers are working diligently toward a production ready version of GRUB 2. I am a new contributor to the GRUB project and the reason I chose this feature to implement is because it meshes with my areas of expertise and interest. Also, I feel that making GRUB 2 usable by everyone (let's face it, right now that means it has to be supported by Ubuntu) is a very important goal. In order for Ubuntu to adopt GRUB 2, it will have to not only be functionally complete, but they will want it to look nice too, as the rest of the OS will.

No argument that it will be great to have GRUB 2 production ready. I am looking forward to it, and I hope I can contribute to other features after I complete the graphical menu system.

Colin

An overlooked GRUB 2 GSoC project (1)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23462476)

Also, the article did not mention the other GRUB 2 project in the Summer of Code. There is another GSoC student, Macro Gerards, working on adding USB support to GRUB 2 so you can use USB storage devices and HID devices. This will be great to have. http://code.google.com/soc/2008/gnu/appinfo.html?csaid=E0D9A2E69F7D3637 [google.com]

Title: GRUB2: USB Support
Student: Marco Gerards
Mentor: Robert Millan
Abstract:
During Summer of Code 2008 I will (when I am accepted) implement USB support for GRUB 2. After finishing this project, GRUB 2 will support (at least) one host controller, mass storage devices and USB keyboards.

The tasks I will work on are:

- Generic USB interfaces
- Implement interface using libusb in grub-emu
- HID support for USB keyboards
- Host controller driver (UHCI)
- USB Mass-storage support

Re:definitely be making their way onto your machin (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449906)

Yeah, I read this article on Osnews earlier I think and I didn't get stiff by the projects mentioned either. Maybe the Pidgin webcam/voip-part will work but except that meh.

And there are LOTS of work in LOTS of projects which will be done, so only 21 things are way to little. Just look thru the official list instead.
http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ [google.com]

Re:definitely be making their way onto your machin (1)

Whitemice (139408) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450404)

Yep; nothing in this list excited me at all.

Waste of time... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447548)

A link to the GSoC page is more interesting and the author couldn't have picked projects that interested me less.

The photo tagging stuff Re: gallery made me laugh, are google sponsoring weekend projects now?

Your personal favorites ? (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447584)

Amarok UPnP rediscover your music elsewhere
- Provide a plug-in to Amarok that will allow users to discover and stream from remote UPnP shares. This plug-in will discover any UPnP MediaServer DCPs on the local network and display their collections as an Amarok collection.

- The plug-in will also provide the capability to control the current instance of Amarok from a remote UPnP ControlPoint. Since UPnP provides no authentication measures, users will be allowed to turn this feature off. Alternatively, an authentication mechanism could be added to Amarok.

- If there is enough time remaining, add the ability to share a selection of the current users music collection on the local network. Again, due to authentication issues this feature would be optional or an authentication mechanism could be added.

I would personally really like to see that, just connect your laptop to a wireless netowrk and then you can play your music on any uPnP capable device.

But as the list seams rather crap, what do you think is missing from it?

Pidgin projects are cool (3, Interesting)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447608)

My personal favorites are the project to add Voice and Video to pidgin and the Pidgin theming project. http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/GSoC2008/VoiceAndVideo [pidgin.im] and http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/GSoC2008/ThemeImprovements [pidgin.im] . People always ask for these things and the developers don't have time to do things that they don't use, so they never get done. Hopefully these actually get done by the end of this summer.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (2, Interesting)

Yogiz (1123127) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447698)

After the developers pissed a lot of people off, Pidgin was forked and among other things Funpidgin [sourceforge.net] promises voice and video support as well. I think they'll pull it off before the Google guys.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (2, Informative)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447724)

Honestly, I think not. I've seen their stuff, and it's not exactly impressive to readd some features that Pidgin used to have. I emailed the developers about just releasing their features as pidgin plugins but I got a reply that they didn't know how to.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23457094)

Integrating voice and video is not that hard. The problem has always been getting the gaim(now pidgin) devs to accept code to do it.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447772)

Also, the input area resizing thing was changed in Pidgin 2.4.2 which was released today. And vv support has been worked on for a while in a Pidgin branch so they've already got a foundation on the stuff, and people who have been working on it for a while. The guy with the SoC project has been working on it for some time prior to now.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (4, Interesting)

SD-Arcadia (1146999) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447950)

From the pidgin FAQ: "Why are file transfers so slow? MSN file transfer support is limited to the proxied version of file transfer support in the protocol. This means that the files are sent to MSN's servers, then the server sends the data to the other user. We don't know if or when we will ever support any of the peer-to-peer file transfer methods available in the MSN protocol." What would it take to add direct connection transfer support to Pidgin so I can actually send someone a file on MSN? Currently it maxes out around 4KB/s which is useless. I always wondered why this is not a priority.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (4, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449044)

What would it take to add direct connection transfer support to Pidgin so I can actually send someone a file on MSN? Currently it maxes out around 4KB/s which is useless. I always wondered why this is not a priority.

I imagine support for all closed, legacy formats is a pretty low priority. Why prioritize reverse engineering and optimizing less used features of an intentionally obfuscated format championed by someone trying to prevent the type of interoperability that is Pidgin's goal? Isn't it better for them to optimize file transfer over XMMP or the video and voice capabilities? I mean, if you want to transfer files with other users, there are plenty of other protocols that do work and where the Pidgin team doesn't have to work so hard only to have it intentionally broken by Microsoft at a later date. It is an inefficient use of their resources compared to working on core features using open protocols where they don't have to put in all that extra effort to overcome MS's antics.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449940)

+ one billion.

I use Adium which is somewhat based on Pidgin and the slow MSN transfers do annoy me, but only because more or less everyone for some stupid reason use MSN. It works perfect with ICQ (and probably Jabber) and webcam and voip support for Jabber are so much cooler than fast file transfers over MSN.

With webcam and voip in Jabber there are very few reasons not to use Jabber, except noone else use it.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

kjamez (10960) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450478)

+infinity ... I don't use Pigdin / GAIM any longer, but your well-worded battle cry about prioritizing resources is key, and deserves mod points.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

Tiberius_Fel (770739) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450500)

Because people, you know, actually use MSN and other formats? For some people, MSN is a killer application - if you install Linux for them and tell them "Sorry, you can't talk to your buddies on MSN anymore", they will say "Give me Windows back". If you think for one second that you think my sister will switch if it means she cannot chat with her friends... think again.

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

bit01 (644603) | more than 6 years ago | (#23452044)

Because people, you know, actually use MSN and other formats?

Yeap, and because they're using it today they'll be using tomorrow. And because they'll be using tomorrow they'll be using it the next day. In fact, they'll be using it for the rest of eternity. Particularly if M$ has any say in the matter.

Sometimes short term pain is worth it for long term gain.

---

Beware deceptive astroturfers [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

scott_karana (841914) | more than 6 years ago | (#23451204)

Funny; in my mind, interoperability also includes providing back compatibility for MSN, the "legacy" protocol which happens to be the most widely deployed instant messaging protocol.

A devil's advocate might posit that putting effort into developing XMPP (taking pains to point out your spelling error "XMMP") is more of a waste than trying to track MSN's upgrades, because of the deployment size, but as someone who runs ejabberd in his basement... :)

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23457420)

Funny; in my mind, interoperability also includes providing back compatibility for MSN, the "legacy" protocol which happens to be the most widely deployed instant messaging protocol.

While I've read widely differing statistics on IM market share, I haven't seen any put MSN as more than 25% of the worldwide market and significantly less for the US market. Pidgin does provide interoperability with MSN and even supports file transfers. What they don't do is waste a lot of time optimizing that minor feature, over and over again as Microsoft changes it again and again.

A devil's advocate might posit that putting effort into developing XMPP (taking pains to point out your spelling error "XMMP") is more of a waste than trying to track MSN's upgrades, because of the deployment size, but as someone who runs ejabberd in his basement... :)

Adding features to XMPP has to be done once and can be done based upon the spec. Adding the same feature for MSN has to be done over and over and each time has to be done via reverse engineering. The point of Pidgin is to allow people to easily communicate via IM, despite the fragmented industry. To that end supporting XMPP fits with the project goals, whereas getting people migrate away from MSN does the same. There is even an argument for intentionally neglecting features for MSN. When you consider the extra effort required because of MS's shenanigans, it is a no brainer, IMHO.

sergy brin fucks goats! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23448384)

quick everyone, let's give all of our good ideas to google for free!!!

yeeeehawwwww, giving multibillion dollar companies ideas for free, great idea guys!!!

Theming individual applications is a bad idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23449540)

I'm completely confused over why anyone would want to theme their applications differently. Breaking consistency across the desktop is a huge usability and maintenance issue.

Why do you need to have a Pidgin window that has an OS X look to it while the rest of your desktop has a standard Clearlooks theme? Every user adjusts their desktop for optimum individual accessibility and usability. Introducing custom themes means that people with poor eyesight won't be able to use Pidgin because it lacks the accessibility features which a standard system GUI/theme has. Or users (and developers) will stop using Pidgin because they realize that they need to change GUI settings (and code) in EVERY application instead of ONE system-wide control panel.

Maybe I'm missing something. Can someone explain to me why individual application theming is a good idea?

Re:Pidgin projects are cool (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449728)

I'll believe it when I see it in a finished release. I seem to remember voice/video support being a SoC project for Pidgin a couple years ago, and that work seemingly went into the garbage can because it was never actually implemented in the project.

x264 and GSOC (1)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447662)

x264 is proud to announce that we have four students this year through the Videolan project; they will be working on frametype decision, more efficient inter-macroblock search, better psychovisual optimizations, assembly and profiling improvements, and an interesting tree project that will track the use of data throughout the video stream to maximize the quality of pixels that are referenced the most in future frames.

After 6 months of improvement [multimedia.cx] resulting in two major visual optimizations and a 30% speed increase, we're now going to have an incredibly productive summer. Happy encoding!

Multithreading way more important. (2, Interesting)

etymxris (121288) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448218)

These optimizations are nice, but leave out the most obvious and important improvement to the codecs that have yet to be made. Most processors sold nowadays are 2 or more cores. And smooth single-threaded processing of 1080p x264 is impossible on all but the absolute highest end processors. So the most important step is obvious multi-threading. There's a summer of code project for that too. [google.com] I'm surprised the author of the article missed it.

Re:Multithreading way more important. (3, Informative)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448872)

Except that x264 is already the most efficient multithreaded encoder in the open source world. I don't see what you mean; there is no such thing as an x264 "video format"; its called H.264, and given that x264 is an encoder and not a decoder, it isn't exactly our job to do multithreading, given that we don't even have a decoder to implement such a thing in!

Re:Multithreading way more important. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23450522)

How does VLC decode h.264, then? What decoder does it use?

FFMPEG (NS) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23450786)

Nuff Said.

Jingle in Pidgin (1)

hey (83763) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447674)

Obvious but will be nice.

Cross-Platform? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447680)

Cross-platform is now officially the hottest thing for desktop environments. First, KDE announced that KDE 4 was being ported to Windows and OS X.
I, for one, don't care if KDE is available for Windows or Mac OS X. These OS already have their own GUI, why would we want to install something else?

The "choice is good" mantra doesn't apply. Windows should look and act like Windows, and Mac OS X should look and act like Mac OS X.

Next thing you know, we have idiots coding things without the OS built-in GUI and we end up with crappy programs that look out of place and behave completely different to the whole OS and all other programs.

Re:Cross-Platform? (2, Informative)

gigne (990887) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448404)

They are not porting Plasma or the KDE UI to Windows/Mac, just the core libs to allow KDE programs to run in other operating systems. As KDE apps are QT based, they mostly use the native widgets, and full native look and feel is in the works for Mac.

For you this means Windows looks like Windows, and Mac looks like Mac. The running application may be written for KDE, but this doesn't matter anymore.

Re:Cross-Platform? (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449084)

For you this means Windows looks like Windows, and Mac looks like Mac. The running application may be written for KDE, but this doesn't matter anymore.

While I applaud the efforts to make these libraries/environments cross platform, I think your comment is a bit misleading. Anything written in these is still obviously a port. It is better than having to run under an X server, but still not exactly native for speed or features compared to software written with native toolkits. From what I've read, for example, KDE apps run on OS X to not automatically gain the features OS X offers to native applications, like universal spellchecking, grammar checking, and other system services. Nor can they export their GUIs or install using OS X's.app bundles.

This is a step forward and gives developers a good way to target more platforms at once, but don't overstate the case lest you set expectations too high.

Re:Cross-Platform? (1)

gigne (990887) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449248)

Thanks for adding some clarity to my comment.

I agree that the core libs are a port, as there are a serious amount changes under the hood. Do you consider an application a port if no code changes occur and it builds and runs using the native widgets in an OS?

Recent versions of QT use the native widgets for Mac [1] without changes. There are always cases where an application taken from the Windows centric UI style (KDE, Win32) to OSX might need some extra code to make it look more OSXy, but QT at least tries to give you a leg up.

I think there is a middle ground between the high expectations I set, and the rather grim picture painted by yourself.

[1] http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qtmac-as-native.html [trolltech.com]

Re:Cross-Platform? (2, Informative)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23457546)

I agree that the core libs are a port, as there are a serious amount changes under the hood. Do you consider an application a port if no code changes occur and it builds and runs using the native widgets in an OS?

I guess it doesn't matter much what I consider a port, but when users are accustomed to features working across all their applications on an OS, when they don't, well they throw that application into the same bin as OpenOffice and often look for better more "native" solutions; regardless of whether or not the application was originated on another OS.

Recent versions of QT use the native widgets for Mac [1] without changes. There are always cases where an application taken from the Windows centric UI style (KDE, Win32) to OSX might need some extra code to make it look more OSXy, but QT at least tries to give you a leg up.

Certainly they make an effort to make things closer to the experience with native applications, but they also try to reuse as much as possible, which often results in sort of a "least common denominator" effect. You end up with applications that can't use any features of any OS that are not also present in all the other OS's supported (or sometimes only features in one OS, making it like a port in this regard).

I think there is a middle ground between the high expectations I set, and the rather grim picture painted by yourself.

I didn't think I was painting a grim picture. I was just trying to be realistic. For now QT is Linux first, and everything else second. The functionality it affords reflects this. Most of the developers are on Linux and primarily targeting it and many don't even know about the features of OS X and Vista that they aren't supporting, because they don't use those OS's enough to be familiar with said features.

They are a good step towards letting developers quickly target multiple platforms and keep an application up to date on all of them, but they are certainly not providing the same level of quality and functionality that truly native applications do. Perhaps in the future that will no longer be the case. In the mean time, well maybe I can recommend some apps to people who don't use Linux, but who might like apps that right now are Linux only.

Re:Cross-Platform? (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448664)

Next thing you know, we have idiots coding things without the OS built-in GUI and we end up with crappy programs that look out of place and behave completely different to the whole OS and all other programs.
And nobody will care, if the programs do something they want.

Just look at the Windows version of iTunes for an example of a program that looks totally out of place, or at Excel for one that behaves completely differently to every other Microsoft program, even in terms of how it handles fundamental operations like cut-and-paste. And yet, both of those somehow manage to be the most popular programs in their class. Maybe inconsistency isn't such a terrible thing after all.

(It's not just Windows, either; Mac OS X is just as inconsistent. Just look at Garage Band for your proof of that.)

Re:Cross-Platform? (2, Interesting)

aliquis (678370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450052)

KDE are way better than the UI in Windows and may be better than OS X ones aswell thought. I run OS X but could see myself use KDE. Especially with Amarok and Kopete.

Dojo (2, Informative)

moshez (67187) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447778)

The Dojo toolkit is going to get some love this SoC -- these things might be making their way into your machine even without you knowing it... Markup Previews [dojotoolkit.org] , 3D effects [dojotoolkit.org] and Drag&Drop form editor [dojotoolkit.org] are all among the SoC projects this year.

Foreign names and transliteration ... OT (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23447858)

What's so great about Ruslan Uhjbilatov that he gets his name in Cyrillic but Dzmitry Mazouka in Belarus doesn't?

from the aptitude-gtk guy (5, Informative)

GrAfFiT (802657) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447892)

Hi, I'm the Aptitude-gtk applicant.
If you've used both Synaptic and Aptitude, you should have seen some differences :)
The dependency resolution is one point, but it's not only that. The whole navigation in Aptitude is just much more efficient. Ever used Synaptic in a mixed-distribution install ? Say you want to install another version of a package and it has some different dependencies. Good luck navigating them in Synaptic. It's really not designed with that in mind.
You can see the full application here [milliways.fr] and my development blog here [milliways.fr] .
I warmly welcome any input on my project!

at less than 2% (4, Informative)

morrison (40043) | more than 6 years ago | (#23447978)

Kudos to the few mentioned that will get some extra attention from this, but it's worth noting that the coverage doesn't represent even 2% of the projects that will be going on. I'd even go so far to say as many of those listed aren't even some of the most impressive or realistic, just one person's sampling of a few they know about.

Captain obvious points out that highlighting even just one project for half of the participating orgs would be about 88 projects and would still represent less than 8%. There's also no guarantee that the student will be successful on their project. About one in five students failed last year, so nothing is guaranteed regardless.

My point? There is a LOT of cool stuff being worked on. Check the projects out for yourself at http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ [google.com]
They're all listed. Show your support, get involved, help them succeed if you really care.

Re:at less than 2% (1)

kjamez (10960) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450130)

+1 to you, captain obvious. Here we have Google, paying a bunch of students for successfully contributing to Open Source. Some of those students will continue to contribute, and some may even become prolific Open Source community members. Win-win.

widgets in the screensaver? (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448050)

All I have to say about the plan to put widgets into the KDE screensaver is "why?" -- The purpose of the screensaver is to be there while you are not.

I suppose having passive widgets that merely display information could be useful, but as TFA references using it to post to twitter and crap, I can't say it sounds particularly useful.

Re:widgets in the screensaver? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23448712)

Yeah, the article writer completely and totally missed the point.

Being able to add a clock, the weather? a webcam of something useful (like the highway you commute on) maybe? and things like that to your screensaver would be pretty nice. As it is, I don't have a screensaver because they're all pretty pointless, but if I could have my screen displaying things like a clock while I'm off reading in bed, that would be pretty cool.

Re:widgets in the screensaver? (1)

kjamez (10960) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450146)

I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I have several machines and several monitors at my fingertips, pseudo-wrapped around. Information overflow and all that, but the point is: at least one of my machines / monitors has been idle for 10 minutes. Why not have a cool rss-reader widget that rotates incoming headlines while you are working? I am wholly disappointed with my screensaver options, and would love a 'dashboard' overview of stuff there. Keep it screen-saver-ish (moving, fluid, interesting, aesthetically pleasing..), and voila.

Record Speech as Tomboy Notes (2, Insightful)

AmonEzhno (1276076) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448116)

1. Why the hell has it taken this long to get a Voice Recognition front end implemented?

2. Who decided that tomboy notes is a worthy front end?!?! Who uses tomboy notes? Couldn't we have something that would allow us to use speech to text in a way which is useful?

Re:Record Speech as Tomboy Notes (2, Interesting)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449048)

I blogged about this project last month, so I've had time to think about the "why"s of it. My conclusions were:
1. Whether it's a Tomboy project or not is really irrelevant because the speech-to-text part will probably be a library, anyway.
2. Putting the functionality in a note-taking application is probably a good choice because the software doesn't need to do real-time conversion. You record the note, close it, allow the software to convert to speech while you're working on stuff, and when you come back two days later to look at the idea you rattled off, the text is magically there. If the software is written correctly, it would even take your changes to the text as training forthe engine.

Re:Record Speech as Tomboy Notes (1)

andrewmin (1272402) | more than 6 years ago | (#23454872)

I definitely would have preferred something else (the only frontend that I can even find is Perlbox, which doesn't work for me), but you can't have em all. Like Daengbo said, it will probably become a library. I hope so, anyway.

What a waste (2, Interesting)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#23448444)

the grub gui, if its actually any good will eventually get installed on my desktop linux machines...

The rest of the crud the article mentioned? Wow... what a completely uninspiring and underwhelming list.

Oooh ... another rss solution? ooxml for abiword? bragging rights for game I've never heard of? Theming support for Pidgin? VLC for Windows CE? I can gaurantee you that I'm not going to EVER go out of my way to install ANY of that crud.

Not that I have a problem with people working on its... its their time. But none of this is remotely 'must have' software.

Pidgin (0)

apankrat (314147) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449132)

> Pidgin's clean interface is one of its strongest points ..

Oh my .. where do I begin .. :) I saw the following elsewhere,
and I think it's pretty accurate summary of the situation -

> Pidgin is an IM client designed and coded by programmers.
> Trillian is an IM client designed and coded by UI designers.

While ideally designers should design and programmers - code.

Useful stuff? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23449184)

A screensaver that allows me to post to twitter????
Isn't a screensaver supposed to work when I'm AWAY from the computer?

Re:Useful stuff? (1)

Pathwalker (103) | more than 6 years ago | (#23449862)

Then think of it as a screen saver that allows anyone walking by your workstation to post to twitter for you.

It will save you time, as you won't have to think of new inane things to "tweet" about, and you will meet new people, as they come by to take you up on the "Free cake to first person to stop by" offer your account posted,

GoC is (s)lacking.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23449998)


GoC is sorely lacking one hell of a kickass project: ReactOS. Bad Bad Google.

Re:GoC is (s)lacking.... (2, Insightful)

kjamez (10960) | more than 6 years ago | (#23450200)

I can't speak for Google on this, but I will say there is no bad about it. It is the job of the project to apply and coordinate all the happenings. I don't know if ReactOS even applied? If you are fond of ReactOS, I encourage you get involved, to contact the developers and to offer your time to apply for the SoC ... (I don't know if they did or not, just saying) ... Open Source really "works" when you actually get involved.

Gaming Projects (1)

mithro (1079591) | more than 6 years ago | (#23451008)

As the article mentions Google ended up funding a number of Gaming projects. There are a total of 7 game projects and 5 game related projects for a total of over 40 slots.

The following game projects have been accepted,

  • Battle for Wesnoth [wesnoth.org] (projects [google.com] ), a very cool turn based strategy game in the theme of Heroes of Might and Magic.
  • BZFlag [bzflag.org] (projects [google.com] ), the classic tank first person shooter game. One of the oldest open source games around!
  • Linden Lab [lindenlab.com] (projects [google.com] ), the makers of Second Life the largest "almost game like" online universe.
  • ScummVM [scummvm.org] (projects [google.com] ), an engine which lets you play all the classic Lucas Arts games and many more!
  • Thousand Parsec [thousandparsec.net] (projects [google.com] ), a framework for building 4x empire building games. Been around since 2001 and growing quickly.
  • Tux4Kids [debian.org] (projects [google.com] ), a group of multi-platform open source educational games for children.
  • WorldForge [worldforge.org] (projects [google.com] ), one of the original open source MMORPG which has even been mentioned on Slashdot multiple times (original called Altima).

My own project Thousand Parsec [thousandparsec.net] got 8 slots for a number of critical features. One of the coolest is a 3d client [blogspot.com] , which should make the games much more interesting to look at.

We will also finally have a few more interesting games to actually play, including a clone of Risk in Space [thousandparsec.net] and a very interesting game called DroneSec [google.com] . Finally, we should have some opponents for you to play against as 2 AI clients being developed for our premier RFTS ruleset [thousandparsec.net] .

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...