Design a Web Page in Under 5k 196
jhines sent us a nifty bit over at Wired about a Web design contest.. . the catch is the 5k maximum. The prize? 5120 cents ;) I won't enter: the best I could do was Slashdot's
Light Mode.
The major difference between bonds and bond traders is that the bonds will eventually mature.
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:1)
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:1)
N BEEP.COM
E 0100 B8 07 0E CD 10 C3
RCX
0006
W
Q
Enter the above in DEBUG on a DOS/WinDoze PC, and you end up with a six byte executable.
It makes your speaker beep once.
No.1 reason not to use frontpage (Score:1)
It is amazing what you can do with pure html and highly compressed gifs/jpegs nowdays. Who needs to use Frontpage or dreamweaver just to convey information....
Oh yeah - page crashes Mozilla on win32 -doug
hahaha! (Score:1)
Re:OT: I want to see classic demos! (Score:1)
MESS actually does all three, but it's still a bit of a hassle getting it all to work.
DOSEmu runs some DOS stuff, (doesn't run Second Reality right, I can't get sound, freezes up or runs slow in places) whereas VMWare should run most/all of it (but you still have to pay for the real version, of course)...
Frodo and VICE are C64 emulators, I use VICE, it's sweet. (It ran the C64 version of Second Reality flawlessly, too)
I haven't messed with Amiga emulators for a while, but I think UAE is pretty good.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:Flexing my brain (Score:1)
Let me guess... (Score:1)
Re:Happy memories... (Score:1)
It took you hours to find the Mosaic Grey with XV?
Takes me like 3 seconds...
And what does #c3c3c3 translate to? I remember that that was the 'perfect' Netscape grey under X11, so I imagine that translates to 192,192,192, as both Netscape & Mosaic use Motif...
Ahh, the memories.
Now, if can only get strn set so it doesn't puke on @Home's news servers, I can go back there... large white xterms with the fixed and trn... those were the days...
Re:Done (Score:1)
Damn! I wish I were cool enough to get into the Slashgrits poll like Signal 11. He's even leading the poll and beating Grits guy out with an astounding 25% of the votes. I love the title of the page: "Slashgrits: News for Gritlovers. Steaming bowls that matter." This site made my day.
kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org]
A tight JavaScript Page (Score:1)
Re:ApostropheColon. (Score:1)
Re:5k web-browser (Score:1)
Well it's pretty damn easy then... (Score:1)
>the files which sit on the server, not the browser's rendering of
>those files.
Just do it in asp and use a database. My syntax is completely wrong but you can get the idea (I've used [{}] instead of greater than/lessthans)
{% option explicit
dim page = request(page)
adodb.open(databasename)
adodb.command = "select source from database where page = " + page
%}
{html}
{% response.write(adodb.execute) %}
{/html}
{% delete adodb %}
Easy. Like I say, my syntax is completely wrong (I ad a beer at breakfast and it's screwing with me and I can'tbe bothererd looking it up - I've even used a response.write - naughty, naughty) but you get the idea. You can do an entire website like this. Then you can pass the value of the page in from a hidden form in each page's source. (treat each link button as a submit)
I was thnking about something along these lines... (Score:1)
I'm not sure if that wuold be browser compliant though. I'm predicting a few memory problems with this.
Of course if I'd read the rules... (Score:1)
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:1)
Note: The contest web page fits in 2940 bytes...
not bad.
Ken
Re:Why not... (Score:1)
Re:Flexing my brain (Score:1)
Candidate must have experience designing, implementing, and extending the following features:
- Oracle 8i server extensions (XML focus).
- Multi value database searches based on associations of meta level relationships with database information.
- Creation of dynamic interfaces based on unique process associations retrieved from above. Not simple substitution but analysis of meta data (structure, relationships, similiar content) to develop individually unique interfaces optimal for a given view into database information.
- Scalability and efficiency of database information via multi tiered database instances based upon multiple shared storage subsystems using a C++ CORBA framework.
- Site analysis processes using the above CORBA framework and stored database packages to dynamically reassign database and CORBA resources for optimal efficiency. All transparent to higher level CGI/DB/XML processes generating web content.
And some others, but my fingers are getting tired. So, are you a good database driven site coder?
Re:Done (Score:1)
P.S Your parody rox, as does most of your comic.
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:1)
But didn't this community give up on gif, though since it was patented or something? Too bad, I like it's size
- 8Complex
Re:Content - formatting fluff = faster loading pag (Score:1)
My biggest problem with using "new" features in web pages is that without a significant amount of work, it's difficult to make it so those with older browsers can use the page. With frames, it's possible to gracefully handle non frame-capable browsers. As such, I can make the site slightly easier to use for people with frames support without sacrificing anything.
With JavaScript, Java, and other assorted plugins, it's not possible without a significant amount of work, which is probably why some sites aren't accomidating to many older browsers. The only thing I do in JavaScript is escape someone else's frames. If it doesn't work, it's not a big deal.
-- PhoneBoy
Re:Content - formatting fluff = faster loading pag (Score:1)
-- PhoneBoy
webpage LZ compression with JavaScript (Score:1)
http://siams.com/root/products/ahp/packer.htm
The source page looks like ascii (like when you view a zip file in a text editor). And there is one self running JavaScript function which decompresses the source and write's it to the document.
It's commercial software, but extremely impressive. The only thing that's better is using JAR files to store JavaScript files.
If anyone knows an open source equivalent of this I would certainly appreciate a url cause I might just have to write something like on my own in order to use it the way I waant.
"I can only show you Linux... you're the one who has to read the man pages."
Re:Gzip-like Javascript Routine? Look Here! (Score:1)
"I can only show you Linux... you're the one who has to read the man pages."
Re:Excess font tags - inquiry (Score:1)
Silly, but true. Someone was not thinking a whole lot when they came up with the spec for font tags.
OT: I want to see classic demos! (Score:1)
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:1)
elegant equations (Score:1)
with lots of meaning, e.g.
E = m c c,
-1 = exp (i pi),
Maxwell's equations.
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:1)
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:1)
http://www.activewin.com/cponline/inde x.html [activewin.com]
was the one I was referring to. Sorry for the confusion.
-Julius X
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:1)
-Julius X
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:1)
My current homepage, at http://www.activewin.com/cponline/ was purposely done in almost no graphic or design elements, because that way anyone can view it. Some of the more content-oriented pages end up over 5k, but it's all in text, no flash, graphics, or javascript code... and it works on any
browser. (I happen to use IE5 when I'm on Windows, but my reasoning for that is that IE is a hell of a lot more standards-compliant than Netscape 4.xx ever has been--I'm looking forward to Mozilla).
Now most websites look nice on a graphical browser, but almost none of them give the option for a low-bandwidth version. I think that even if a site wants to pile on the DHTML, Images, and whatever else could be added to make the site look nice, they should still be giving a nice, clean, simple, 100% compatible, text-based alternative.
(Considering most of my web-related work is graphic design......this probably sounds a little ironic comng from me )
-Julius X
Re:You can do neat stuff with just text... (Score:1)
It's 17.5Kb
Mind you, I'm not surprised it's fat and bloated, nor am I surprised his page is...
Re:Use scripts (Score:1)
bet it ain't one that any of the judges will be using.
Except (Score:1)
Re:5K... (Score:1)
Just because the formula would return a valid result doesn't mean it's allowed. If one wished to be precise, you could state the formula as:
score(size,rating) } = ((1/1024)(5120-size)) + (rating) if 0<=size<=5120
} = 0 otherwise
The rules fairly clearly state that pages must be under 5k to be considered.
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:1)
N BOOT.COM
A 0100
jmp f000:fff0
<carriage return>
RCX
5
W
Q
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Re:Flexing my brain (Score:1)
Re:Flexing my brain (Score:1)
For example Oracle 8i plus extensions is great -- and I would unhesitatingly recommend it for certain clients requiring high transaction volumes, high availability plus, etc. Similarly XML, style sheets, etc. are wonderful when needed - but overkill at times.
Or this one: "Multi value database searches based on associations of meta level relationships with database information.
[Boy, try reading that sentence out loud, three times quickly without getting your brain in a fog. ;-)] Important yes. Secondary to clean, well designed tables that from the get-go to support dimensional data analysis -- i.e., the data is designed to answer non-obvious questions (queries) as easily and with as high performance as the obvious ones.
And the "Creation of dynamic interfaces based on unique process associations..." etc. is secondary to "the ability to communicate with clients of varying technical ability to enable development of the optimal interfaces and views of information in the database."
Finally, scalability and efficiency is always important, but "multi tiered database instances based upon multiple shared storage subsystems using a C++ CORBA framework" might be important for maybe .1 percent of the data driven sites out there, and I'm being generous with that percentage.
(BTW, I've done C++, Corba driven systems, etc. and even EDI-INT, but they've never been needed on the same platform -- even though I've done work for several different Fortune 500 systems requiring huge transaction volumes, etc.)
What I'm saying is that all of these techniques and technologies can be important and should be used when appropriate, but look at it in a more practical light: what if my client is a small non-profit with limited requirements and budget? A good data driven web developer will recommend the best solution for the client , beginning with a good assessment of needs and how to meet them within budgetary constraints.
Yes, I define myself as "good". Am I equally good if I recommend the Linux/PHP/MySql solution and develop it accordingly, or just if I recommend and use only the big-ticket, high powered technology like those on your list?
Done (Score:2)
Happy memories... (Score:2)
And the hours we spent finding the perfect Mosaic Grey (in the absence of transparent GIFs) (192R,192G,192B, in case you're interested: but not on Macs)
--
I'm down at the 2.5 K mark (Score:2)
I put together a fully functional 2-page site, with two small images. The total weight of all 4 files is 2045 bytes, 3 bytes short 2K. Total downloadable weight (how much transfer you use to pull both pages of the site, assuming you load each of the images twice) is 2523 bytes (2.46K)
Technically it's not fully compliant due to it's lack of the DTD statement in the HTML tag. But I've tested the site with every browser I have access to:
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Too Bad About Server-Side (Score:2)
Anybody wanna start a contest?
5K, no problem... (Score:2)
This will be interesting to watch...
That made MY day (Score:2)
Here comes the plug:
I think this is great (Score:2)
www.semiotek.com [semiotek.com]: just plain text with some tables and some fonts and colours.
Do WAP pages count? (Score:2)
Nokia 7110. Now that's fun.
K.
-
Re:Excess font tags - inquiry (Score:2)
If you do, be warned: your document isn't valid HTML.
According to the Transitional HTML 4.0 DTD [w3.org], FONT is an inline tag, and must be contained in a block-level element. (That is, if I'm reading the DTD right...)
If you want to set the base font for your page, use the BASEFONT tag. It's an empty tag that you can use to set the base size, face, etc. for your document.
Or, as countless others have said, move over to cascading style sheets [w3.org].
Jay (=
Re:Content - formatting fluff = faster loading pag (Score:2)
I find it ironic to hear you say that, and then to follow your homepage link [phoneboy.com] here on slashdot (in order to see an example of the lean html formatting of which you speak) only to find that you are using not only frames, but JavaScript on your home page... generated by Netscape under Windows 95!
(c:
Re:Small programs (Score:2)
If you wanted to write big programs that used graphics or if you wanted to write programs that used lots of variables and graphics, you either had to use the second hires page (which started at 16384 ($4000), but didn't allow split screen text/graphics), or you had to do some twiddling with memory mapping to relocate either the variables and/or program storage above the graphics buffers.
Back in those days you really had to be a lot more careful about memory usage than you do today.
Word? (Score:2)
Word 2000 uses XML for everything, and I constantly get file in MS-HTML that I have to strip down and redo.
Pope
CBM token (Score:2)
Pope
There were 2 pre-announcment TM pages (Score:2)
But for years before that one came out (early Dec 99), they had a very very simple page. It basically ran something along the lines of:
<HTML>
This page is not here yet.
<!-- There are no hidden messages in this webpage.-->
<!-- There are no tyops in this webpage.-->
</HTML>
The original poster seems to be a bit confused as to which was which. The second was -- as you can see -- definitely under 5k. The former (with the images) would have been a lot closer to that limit. I'm not sure which generated more discussion.
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
Re:Interestin (Score:2)
I don't know anyone who has ADSL or a cable modem. They all use 28.8 or 56K modems with 14-17" monitors.
The old rule of thumb used to be a one second response time to user input. That is 3600 bytes at 28.8 kbps.
I feel like slapping the web designer every time I see another insanely bloated web page that takes a minute to load.
Re:Excess font tags - inquiry (Score:2)
E.g., if I remember right, you'd use
BODY: { font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif }
And that overrides the body tag with the font you picked.
There are lots of cross-browser problems with using these unfortunately, but check out some decent sites like WebReference [webreference.com] for info on them.
Incidentally, you often have to use lots of font tags if you use tables. A font tag will apply to multiple paragraphs, but not to the cell contents inside tables! You need extra font tags in there for that.
HTH
Re:You should if NS3 is your audience (Score:2)
The time for CSS is here (and passing).
Re:GNU still stuck on jpegs? (Score:2)
But what I want to know more is why the pngs they provide don't use transparency? Is it my browser?
Maybe they are waiting on a stable version of Mozilla?
Not that anyone cares, but (Score:2)
In hex, it translates to C0C0C0. "#C0C0C0" if you're trying to set the color in HTML.
I only mention it because, at one point, I also had to figure it out. Of course, being a young-un, I just sampled it into one of them fancy newfangled graphics programs. Didn't have to walk 5 miles uphill to code on a 50-pound keyboard missing a few keycaps or any of that stuff. Yep, we sure have it easy these days.
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:2)
> it usually comes out more than that.
That's my thought exactly. I'm pondering entering this contest, but they're judging on content as well (as well they should be!) and I'm having a hard time coming up with something that will still ring in at under 5K with text and images and still be interesting.
It's interesting that this happens to come along now. I spent a good half an hour last night trying (mostly) patiently to educate a cow-orker of mine as to just, precisely,
Uh. Me. And everyone else who, like me, is still stuck on a dialup POTS line, lucky to even get 28.8 with a 56K modem due to the quality of said POS phone lines, browsing on a six-year-old slow-as-shit computer, and who doesn't want to sit around and wait 30 minutes for
I don't really know when this turned into a browser accessability rant. *grin* It's certainly possible to design a page in less than 5K that looks like shit in, say, lynx. It's also possible to design a page that looks beautiful in any browser you view it in, but happens to take six years to load. I think what my point is, is that this contest -- while pretty awesome, and definately something that I'm going to be pondering my entry for -- misses the point to some extent. It shouldn't
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:2)
While some combinations of colours are unambigious, eg blue/white, some are terrible, eg red/green.
Re:5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:2)
(OK, so I had this [malamas.com] to work from, but it was too big at 20k
engineers never lie; we just approximate the truth.
A sure winner (Score:2)
Share and Enjoy.
5K... (Score:2)
On a side note - the formula allows you to have up to 20K and still be in the positive, if it's a *REALLY* good page - but personally i won't be going over 5K.
Excess font tags - inquiry (Score:2)
If I just had a 1-font web page, wouldn't I only need one tag at the beginning and end? Looking at some of my other pages, they have font tags within font tags. Wonder how much I can slim down.
Re:Use scripts (Score:2)
--
Small programs (Score:2)
The first machine I did substantial programming (an Apple ][+) had only about 16k for BASIC programs before you ran into the video buffer. I still remember hitting that limit and getting all sorts of gibberish (my code) as graphics on the screen.
Re:OPEN SOUCE WEB PAGE DESIGN (Score:2)
My entry (Score:2)
2) An animated opening splash screen.
3) Informative product information.
4) Animated menu navigation bar.
5) Product ordering means a complete e-comerce solution.
6) Not one line of script.
7) {blink} tags added for your nestalgic pleasure.
8) Only 4.73k (27 bytes to spare!)
here it is [netscape.net]
_________________________
Re:You should if NS3 is your audience (Score:2)
Netscape 3 handles CSS better than IE 3-5 or Netscape 4 -- it ignores it. This is a 100% perfectly valid way of interpreting CSS. It's better for browsers to ignore what they don't understand than to try to do something that ends up being wrong.
I haven't used FONT tags on a page I've written in two years, since I discovered style sheets. Except stuff at work, where I cut-and-paste other people's templates, but that doesn't count.
Excellent Jon Katz parody (Score:2)
This is what the internet is all about: making people dizzy, so dizzy that they fall off of their high pedestals and fall into the muck of the real world, the real world portrayed by the internet, the internet that is a big revolutionary revolution that's revolving so quickly that people get dizzy. And the internet revoluiton, led by revolting geeks, is a geekfest among revolutions. That's what I meme.
Now that is fucking excellent. A truly marvellous parody of Jon Katz :)
Get hired! (Score:2)
On a slightly related note (in that BBSs were really cool-looking despite the constraints) I wish BBSs would come back. Sometimes, the web just seems too big for me. I know they won't. (At least, not like they were when I was in to them (right before they all started to die ): ))
Welcome to Slashdot. Please do not feed the trolls.
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:2)
And the idea is the same in both cases: Write tightly. Write elegantly. Write concisely. Do what you have to do with a minimum of fluff. It's a Good Thing.
Re:My entry (Score:2)
Anyone can write a blank, ugly (sorry but it's true), useless page in under 5kB. The point, and the unwritten intent of such a contest is to do the _best_ possible in the limit.
I mean honestly, what's the point of writing a web page in under 5kB that no one is going to want to read? I'm not just looking at yours here--there are a LOT of (serious) suggestions in this discussion about ways to get around the rules, or the easiest (but most useless) way to achieve the stated goal. Why bother?
As an aside, 5093 bytes is 4.97kB. 4.73kB gives you 276 bytes to play with.
don't use frontpage (Score:2)
no, use fp . . . 2k
no, use notepad . . . 1k
submission. . .
<html>
<body>
I win!!
</body>
</html>
Re:Flash! (Score:2)
But as you say they are "IT professionals" which would surely increase the chances they have it. In my mind the fact that they are "IT professionals" will only decrease the chance that whatever they decide to test it with will actually have Flash installed. I know I wouldn't have it in there to judge this contest. This contest should be about simplicity and elegance to a given solution. Assuming Flash is present has NO elegance.
Re:Done (Score:2)
+5 Funny!
Reminds me... (Score:2)
From what I remember the winner was a Mandlebrot generator which stunned me totally.
No program could ever suppass the elegance of that line.
Re:I nominate... Transmeta (Score:2)
Prior to that the page was the minimal one that the post above refers to. It too had HTML comments that said, in effect, there aren't any secrets in the comments either.
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
M$ Plans own contest (Score:2)
Re:5K - C'mon..... (Score:2)
Because implicit in the contest is the idea that you are to create something visually appealing (ie: artistic). A well written recipe for a bundt cake ain't gonna cut it.
You shouldn't be using font tags anyway... (Score:3)
CSS allows you to specify all of the font styles for the elements of the document in ONE place. Want your H1s to be in "BastardWeird"?
... this once, at the top of the file (the HTML comments are optional -- just there to prevent the CSS code from showing up in non-CSS browsers), instead of having:
... around every single H1 in the document. That's a savings of about 39 bytes PER H1, after an initial cost of about 70 bytes. Maybe H1 is a bad example (it doesn't get used more than once or twice in a document usually), but this extends to other tags too, and not just to fonts. CSS also replaces FONT COLOR and a lot of other things that before needed to be coded multiple times into the same HTML document.
This is an even bigger win when you use a single, central css file (referenced via LINK REL=stylesheet), rather than coding CSS into every document. Maintainence also magically becomes easier. Want to change your whole site's look? Edit one file.
Use scripts (Score:3)
Couldn't you just use a small bit of JavaScript to pull the whole page from somewhere else?
Alternatively, you could use PerlScript [activestate.com] and write the whole page in obfuscated Perl.
Now all we need is a web browser in under 5Kbyte.
I had 120 digits of code on one 80 column card (Score:3)
--
Re:Small programs (Score:3)
You could save memory and more importantly keystrokes doing this! G shift-O took 2 bytes where GOTO takes 4, etc.
I had a blackjack program in BASIC that was around 3.5K. if you tried to modify it using straight BASIC commands, you got "Out Of Memory" errors, but if you used the Tokenized shorthand, you could debug and change the code.
Pretty cool!
Pope
Cunning Plan (Score:3)
Look at this freshmeat entry for AlgART HTML Picker [freshmeat.net] to see what I mean
Compressed HTML (Score:3)
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:3)
Perhaps even more amazing, from a technical standpoint, were the 4k "demo" competitions. Apparently, these are still reasonably popular. The idea here is to create a graphically pleasing demo in 4k or less (go asm!).
The 64k limit was (is) a popular barrier for graphical demos too, with an absolutly incredible amount of power crammed into each and every byte.
For fun, check out the following URLs:
The Hornet Archive [hornet.org] - While no longer "active", there are still a lot of resources available. Search for "64k" (while you still can!).
Future Crew's "Second Reality" [extremezone.com] - One of the definitive demos of all time.
Distance'99 [neutralzone.org] - a recent competition covering many types of demos. Both amiga and PC 4k and 64k bundles of joy are available.
.------------ - - -
| big bad mr. frosty
`------------ - - -
Content - formatting fluff = faster loading pages (Score:4)
Obviously, in the days of cheap memory, processing power, and Microsoft, bloatware is the norm instead of the exception.
I pretty much stay away from just about every advancement that has taken place in HTML and it's bretheren since the IMG tag and tables. The reason: I want the most number of people to be able to make use of my web pages. Just by leaving out a lot of the advanced features, you can reduce the web page to little more than the actual text. Okay, it's not "pretty," but it loads really fast even over a modem connection (actual text compresses on modem connections).
I may have "big" pages but that's because they are heavy on actual content and light on fluff.
-- PhoneBoy
I nominate... (Score:4)
It attracted a HUGE amount of attention, and weighed in at what??? 100 bytes?
Just how big is "This page is not here yet." wrapped in the minimal obligatory HTML tags?
5120 Bytes?? Yikes (Score:4)
But....it can be done. My home page weighs in at 3199 bytes, and that's with graphics! The only thing is, they propose that most web pages should be small, similar to this, but most useful pages that have more than two or three paragraphs on them will swell to 10 or 20k, and that's without using any kinds of graphics.
50k for a web page is great, and having alternate slimmed-down versions for new wireless and lo-bandwidth devices is a good thing, but not all web pages should be 10-20k. You'd never get any useful information(above all--you would NEVER get to read Slashdot--the lite page was 40+kb!).
But in any case, looks like a good thing to try, similar to the 4096kb democompos that I think they still have at the demo parties in Europe.
-Julius X
Re:Tight coding contests in history (Score:4)
Flexing my brain (Score:4)
So if I don't get the $50 bucks, why do I consider this a win? Well, once a person catches on to some of the better techniques, it's relatively easy to write complex, data driven sites -- you develop a good site plan, work with folks until all of the pieces have been agreed on, test the functionality, then make it pretty.
Of course, if you work develop high end web sites like I used to, we're talking about billing $100K+ to the client for the whole process, at a bare minimum.
But it's not pushing my skills much any more -- I can do roughly the same things in Perl, PHP, Python, TCL, SSJS, etc., the same things and a few more fun by throwing in Java and Javascript. Flash is cool, but not web-wide, so it's not gonna pay my rent for a while yet.
But proving that 5K is enough to do something useful/pretty, etc. -- that's a challenge. See ya there!!
easy winner (Score:4)
Re:Done (Score:4)
Yet Another Slashdot Parody, but it's damn funny. You might not like it though; it does not contain grits.
Interestin (Score:4)
Validation a big problem here (Score:5)
Show me a page under 5k that validates, and I'll be impressed. Of course, I won't make any outward indication that I'm impressed, probably a contemptious "but it's supposed to validate ANYWAY" snort, but that's the way I am.
--
Link to the actual contest (Score:5)
Here's a link to the actual contest rules and so forth.
http://www.sylloge.com/5k/ [sylloge.com]---
Immediately disqualified.. (Score:5)
server side--no, client side--maybe (Score:5)
How about client-side processing? Can I use JavaScript? What if the page shows up as larger than 5k in the browser as a result of the scripting?
Client-side scripting, including the use of scripts which write out additional HTML (i.e., by using JavaScript's "document.write()" function) are permitted. The size component of the judging will be done by examining the files which sit on the server, not the browser's rendering of those files. The normal caveats apply however (see the next question); make sure you are confident about your scripts running in the judges' browsers. Also, please note that gratuituous exploitation of this provision may cause low marks by some judges in the concept & originality category.
The server side question is answered elsewhere in the FAQ--clearly not allowed. What's interesting is that client side scripting could be used to generate much more than 5k worth of HTML, as long as the original page on the server is less than 5k. Of course, you'll want to read the entire FAQ for any caveats.
FAQ available at http://www.sylloge.com/5k/faq.html [sylloge.com].
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Tight coding contests in history (Score:5)
I remember the days of Byte (when it was a real magazine), Compute!, et al. The magazines were full of code back then, pages and pages and pages of typing that you'd laboriously enter by hand, and then debug. A few of 'em had 1k programming contests monthly, which (along with typing in the loooong programs) really gave you an appreciation for style, efficiency, and elegance in coding. Atari Basic (this was on the 400/800 machines) also allowed you to enter more than one statement on a logical line (which was something like 107 or 112 characters), so they also had 'one liners' every month. They were usually cute little graphics demos, since easy graphics programming was Atari's forte'.
Now we're doing it in HTML instead of BASIC, and with a 5kB limit instead of 1kB. What goes around, comes around, eh?
Cool stuff.