×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

New Linux Distribution — Exherbo, Announced

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 4 years ago | from the too-many-already dept.

Operating Systems 322

An anonymous reader writes "Former Gentoo developer Bryan Østergaard recently announced a new linux distribution aptly named Exherbo. The distribution, which has been underway for a couple of months and is based on ideas and experiences from his long work with Gentoo, features a new packaging format and several subprojects, such as a redesigned init system. Currently no installation medium is available but their package tree is public for the daring ones who want to play with the upcoming distribution. The developers strongly discourage any serious use though, as it's still highly experimental."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

322 comments

oblig FP (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465824)

But does it run Linux?

Re:oblig FP (5, Funny)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466210)

But does it run Linux?

From TFA:

absolutely nothing works

So, no. It doesn't run Linux.

Aptly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465828)

Aptly? I don't think that word means what you think it means

Yes... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465838)

but does it run...Ah ****

So basically... (1)

genesus (1049556) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465844)

So basically, it is supposed to be easier to use, but is incompatible with gentoo? Sounds useful...

Cool.... (4, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465856)

A new package format. Just what we need.
Man I have to admit that after reading the site I really want noting to do with this distro. Why is it even on Slashdot? ... Oh well must be a slow day.

Re:Cool.... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465918)

> Man I have to admit that after reading the site I really want noting to do with this distro.

That's good, because this distro wants nothing to do with you.

Re:Cool.... (5, Funny)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465982)

Or anybody else for that matter.

Re:Cool.... (4, Informative)

CrazedWalrus (901897) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466234)

I wonder why the hell this was even "announced" anyway. From the web site, it's incredibly obvious that this is a pet project by a few developers who just want to try some stuff out. Why is this on Slashdot? They don't want or need any outside involvement.

From the site:

OK, I Want to Try Exherbo

No you don't.

Yes I Do

OK, maybe you do, but we don't particularly want you to try it because we don't want to deal with you whining when you find that absolutely nothing works. Exherbo isn't in a fit state for users. We might get there one day, but it's not a priority. Right now, all we care about is getting it into a fit state for a small number of developers.

[ more snarky stuff amounting to "buzz off" ]

Really, all we provide is a few things that the few people working on all this find useful for themselves. When we have something for anyone else, we'll let you know.


Soooooo.... What was the point again?

Re:Cool.... (5, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466198)

It doesn't even sound like a distro yet. It sounds like someone got their ego dented and posted a list of things they would want to change about Gentoo, but hasn't gotten much beyond the "writing a list" stage.

I predict this distro will quietly die as the developers get sick of reinventing the wheel. At best, it will be a very small niche distro.

Nonsense! (4, Funny)

Hankapobe (1290722) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466572)

It sounds like someone got their ego dented...

An IT & FOSS guy got his ego dented?!? Say it isn't so! That never happens!

FOSS people are the most altruistic and saintly people EVAAR! Why, they give their software away! They give their source away! They work for free much of the time! How dare you criticize these saints! They give us an option against Microsoft the EVIL that will run on Intell/PC products! They give us a way to save old and outdated computers that will go into a landfill!

How dare you insult those people!!

Re:Cool.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466332)

So far as I can see, the package format [exherbo.org] is just a massively improved version of ebuilds. It's not like it's a completely new format, just the next logical leap forward from ebuilds.

Re:Cool.... (5, Insightful)

typhoonius (611834) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466472)

Don't forget "redesigned init system," for those times when you want an init replacement besides launchd, eINIT, initng, upstart, and Sun's SMF.

Missing some subtle pun? (5, Insightful)

naich (781425) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465858)

"aptly named Exherbo" I've read both FAs and I can't see why. Am I missing something obvious?

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (5, Insightful)

Daimanta (1140543) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466000)

Well, exherbo is latin for obvious so you are indeed missing the obvious :)

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (5, Informative)

Thornburg (264444) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466086)

I guess that was supposed to be funny, but "exherbo" apparently means to weed (as in to remove the weeds from a garden). At least, that was the only definition I could come up with using a short google search, and it certainly makes sense.

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (4, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466228)

I guess that was supposed to be funny, but "exherbo" apparently means to weed...
Yes, Østergaard must have been on weed when he decided that the world needs another distro with an all new package format... Yes indeed.

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466080)

After some googling, this guy claims to have asked and found out it means "uproot". Who knows if it's true... Explanation [daniel-lange.com]

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466158)

It's latin, it means "to weed."

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466206)

"aptly named Exherbo"

I was hoping the pun would be that the gentoo fork was using apt ;-)

Oh well.

I've read both FAs and I can't see why. Am I missing something obvious?

Interestingly, a search for Exherbo [google.com] on google only yields 116 results as I write this; the lowest I've ever seen for something I've searched for from a slashdot headline. I wonder how many search results google will be returning by morning?

(funnily enough, a yahoo search [yahoo.com] for the same item returns fewer, but more relevant results - another first for me).

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466308)

Up to 132 in just a few minutes.

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (1)

gentooligan (936853) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466280)

Exherbo means to weed. Which tells you what they've been smoking ;p

Looks kinda interesting though. There's some pretty smart ideas in there to get past some of the limitations and warts of ebuilds. Good luck to Bryan and friends.

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (2, Interesting)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466656)

No, Exherbare means "to weed" - Exherbo means I weed or I am weeding -- apparently also "I'm so high right now, i have no idea what making I apparently think that "Distribution" means "hoarding it all to myself, but gloating about it trying to make people jealous, but failing miserably.""

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466632)

It's an ancient African word meaning "go and use Gentoo or Ubuntu please."

Re:Missing some subtle pun? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466676)

Perhaps "aptly named Exherbo" because most people won't know what to make of it.

Even on Slashdot. The thread's barely started and is already tagged "zzzz" and has people whining about Slow News Day, Yet Another Distro, and Yet Another Package Format. What is this, a /marketing/ bitch session? Slashdot is News for Nerds. The news is we've got a new distro, by Bryan Østergaard no less, and he's trying something new with it. What's more, it's in the very earliest stages so it's a great time to start watching how the project moves forward. And join in.

If you don't think that's newsworthy then you're in the wrong place, and you want some commercial lifestyle promotion pap like Wired. Get thee hence.

Wow, just what we need (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465862)

I'll probably get modded down by the groupthink mods around here (hint: metamods: moderate any downmods as unfair)...

but really, is this what the Linux user community needs? Yet another Linux distro. Wow. And maybe we can add a new window manager and another variant of Firefox/IceWeasel/Netscape/etc.

It's really a shame for F/OSS that, time and time again, there is such a huge duplication of effort and half-assed half-finished projects lying around in the junkyard of the Open Source cemetery.

Re:Wow, just what we need (5, Insightful)

domatic (1128127) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466174)

It's really a shame for F/OSS that, time and time again, there is such a huge duplication of effort and half-assed half-finished projects lying around in the junkyard of the Open Source cemetery.



And once again someone falls prey to a common misconception: F/OSS is not a monolith. If these guys didn't have the option of having their own sandbox to play in then what makes you think they'd be compelled to play in someone else's? The way this will more than likely shakeout is that fifty or so people will use this for awhile. Maybe it'll be a bit more popular if the primary devs have more stature than I'm giving them credit for.

These guys will get to have their fun and most everybody else will use an established distro. And that isn't to say good won't come of it. If they have good ideas, the bigger distros might adopt them. If they have REALLY good ideas they may supplant Gentoo among that crowd of people. Bugfixes may also go to upstream projects.

I know this is weird idea to someone accustomed to being served what they think they want from proprietary software houses but this is nothing but an exercise of freedom. Others are free to use what they make or not. What would you propose? Some sort of law saying that henceforth no one may attempt to start a BSD or Linux distribution?

The F/OSS world operates on a form of street-cred. These guys will either get it or not. It won't cause any sort of actual problem either way.

Re:Wow, just what we need (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466294)

F/OSS is not a monolith. If these guys didn't have the option of having their own sandbox to play in then what makes you think they'd be compelled to play in someone else's?
That's what I dislike about the FOSS attitude. If we had one hundred developers working on one project rather than one hundred projects by one developer each, then we'd see much better quality software.

I'm not against the idea at all, it's just that I wouldn't recommend it. But hey, choice is a good thing. A lot of the FOSS stuff is top-notch. I'm looking at you, OpenOffice.

Re:Wow, just what we need (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466392)

"That's what I dislike about the FOSS attitude. If we had one hundred developers working on one project rather than one hundred projects by one developer each, then we'd see much better quality software."

Uhh no, we'd see one project doing one thing well, and 99 unresolved problems.
Or maybe we'd see a hundred people yelling at each other (multiply by 2.5 and you have gentoo)

Boo Hoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466190)

Judging by the posts here so far, if anything, you are in sync with the groupthink.

Re:Wow, just what we need (5, Insightful)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466236)

I'll probably get modded down by the groupthink mods around here (hint: metamods: moderate any downmods as unfair).

No. You're getting modded up due to the "there are too many Linux distros" groupthink (that you're completely participating in).

Re:Wow, just what we need (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466264)

It's really a great thing for F/OSS that, time and time again, there is such a huge distribution of effort and quickly failed projects lying around in the lesson book of Open Source history.

Without many failed attempts, no great successes would be had.

Re:Wow, just what we need (4, Insightful)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466300)

I'll probably get modded down by the groupthink mods around here (hint: metamods: moderate any downmods as unfair)

You're given certain comments to metamoderate, but in the event I metamod whatever mod you get (so far they haven't modded it) will determine how I metamoderate. You simply asked a question so I can't see why anyone would downmod. It is an honest question afaict.

is this what the Linux user community needs?

No, but it may be what the Linux developer community needs. There could be some really cool code coming out of this that may benefit the user community in the future, but right now it's for developers only. If your hobby is hacking new code, this might be for you.

It's really a shame for F/OSS that, time and time again, there is such a huge duplication of effort and half-assed half-finished projects lying around in the junkyard of the Open Source cemetery.

Um, ok maybe I can see why you might get downmodded. I see no "junkyard" nor "cemetary", what Linux projects have died recently? A halfassed half-finished project deserves to die, but that's part of the open source process. And there's a "huge duplication of effort" having Windows, Apple, Solaris, etc, compete; or Ford, Chevy, Toyota, K.I.A. etc. as well. The difference is that if Ford invents something, Chevy's not going to have it in their cars unless they can come up with the same functionality without infringing Ford's patent. If some cool new thing comes of this, you may well see it un Red Hat or Mandriva shortly. That's one of open source's strengths.

I don't see "duplication of effort" as a weakness in either open source or closed.

As to junkyards, you might want to read a couple of articles I wrote a few years ago when I was at K5, Useful Dead Technologies [kuro5hin.org] and the sequel Good Riddance to Bad Tech [kuro5hin.org].

Necessiy isn't the mother of invention, it's the father. Hard work is the mother. Do people need more than one mother?

Re:Wow, just what we need (3, Interesting)

Cillian (1003268) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466324)

The whole point in GPL style freedom is that people are free to write another linux distro, if they feel that way inclined, and free to duplicate effort. It is duplication of effort that produces multiple projects which do the same thing, which gives choice, which I believe to be a good thing. If it wasn't for duplication of effort, we wouldn't have GNOME, and KDE, and XFCE, and enlightenment. If you happened to not like the one window manager we did have, tough luck. We're not all part of some big company, so you can't just tell us to all follow what guidelines you want to. This distro really isn't designed to be the next big thing, or to help out the community. You talk about half assed half finished projects as though they are a bad thing. I find, what many people often consider to be an unfinished hack of a tool will do a particular job perfectly. Take this in contrast to something like openoffice, or firefox, which are often considered to be "finished", production, mature products, but are actually completely bloated and not that great at doing what they're supposed to. Really, it is this sort of niche itch scratching that has made linux and everything to do with it what it is. If you happen to want to devote yourself to helping other people, and the "community", then feel free to, but don't start trying to stop other people from coding something for themselves, or a small user group. Another hint: don't try to tell the mods how to think - if they mod down your post, don't whine about it, you deserved it.

Re:Wow, just what we need (3, Informative)

CrazedWalrus (901897) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466338)

From the looks of this it's just a sandbox for a few guys to try out some ideas. It'll probably never amount to anything other than hopefully some cool new ideas. Those ideas will probably then be reincorporated into Gentoo or some other projects.

The major problem seems to have been that they couldn't try out their ideas in Gentoo mostly due to political problems, so they made another Gentoo-esque platform they could directly control.

It's Worth Reconsidering... (1)

mpapet (761907) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466428)

your opinion for many reasons.

1. If he and many others didn't try then I have a feeling Linux would be perceptually relegated to Hurd status or lower still.

2. Yeah, I'd like another window manager. I'd like four entirely new and different WM's.

3. I'd like iceweasel to run in console, so sure another version of iceweasel would be fabulous.

The more important question is what exactly is bad about so many choices? Do you understand the danger just a couple of operating system choices creates?

Re:Wow, just what we need (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466458)

I'll probably get modded down by the groupthink mods around here (hint: metamods: moderate any downmods as unfair)...
  1. Make stupid comment completely influenced by groupthinking and redundant
  2. Add fake warning at the beginning of comment to stop people from modding you down, making then afraid of meta-mod, in fact people will mod you up just for this warning without reading the whole comment
  3. ???
  4. PROFIT!

Re:Wow, just what we need (5, Insightful)

mckorr (1274964) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466510)

By that reasoning all new ideas and development should stop immediately till we come up with one perfect distro. Why don't we just dump everything but Debian/Fedora/FreeBSD/whatever, for the good of the community of course! One distro to rule them all, etc. etc.

The guy wants to experiment with a new init system and a new packaging system. He's put this out as a "distro" so that anyone else who wants to can help out, make suggestions, whatever.

His work might end up "half-assed half-finished", or it might get incorporated into something larger which changes the way all the current big name distros work. If we are truly championing OSS, we should rather wish this guy well. He's doing exactly what everyone is always talking about, changing the source to suit himself and trying to learn how it is all put together.

Re:Wow, just what we need (4, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466616)

oh, and do you have trouble with hobbyists making steam engines or kites or ships in a bottle? who the fuck are you to tell people how or with who they spend their spare time coding? anyone can fork their own distro or open source project, if you don't like it fuck off.

Awesome. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465864)

I was just thinking the other day Linux users need more options to choose from.

Notability??!! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465898)


There are tons of linux distributions that are "new" and more ambitious than this one. In fact, reading the project aims on the website gave me the impression that this is a highly specialized project by somebody who has an axe to grind with the gentoo community. With so many existing gentoo variants out there with larger scope and communities, I am having problems appreciating the notability of this article and why it's even on Slashdot. I normally expect tighter coverage of Linux topics than this.

Most Dangerous Badass Linux Distribution EVER! (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465914)

The developers strongly discourage any serious use though as it's still highly experimental.
It's so dangerous that a single developer can only work on a few lines of code at one time. I heard that one developer accidentally saw a whole module at once ... he's in the hospital now and his condition is stable, I think he's going to be ok.

Seriously, they treat this thing like they're trying to hype it. "It's not ready for users, not even developers!" The only thing it's ready for is Guatemalan Insane Asylum Inmates! Avert your eyes!

It is funny that they claim more progress working on this for six months than working on Gentoo for four years. Because of bickering and criticism. I can totally believe that. I wish them tons of success!

Re:Most Dangerous Badass Linux Distribution EVER! (4, Funny)

cblack (4342) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466024)

"they claim more progress working on this for six months than working on Gentoo for four years"

Well, given Gentoo is usable and this is not, I disagree with their assessment.

Another new init system? (4, Insightful)

cblack (4342) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465916)

Sheesh, don't we have enough non-BSD non-SYSV unix init systems yet? Solaris has their own, Mac OS X has a different one, and I think I recall hearing some other distro changed theirs as well. This fragmentation is irritating for sysadmins and gains little. Have these people looked at the other systems out there (Sun's, Apple's, etc) and seen what needs of theirs are not met? Perhaps extending one of these would be worth considering...
Altho honestly, I find SysV style init to work just fine.

Re:Another new init system? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466116)

Actually, they have.

Re:Another new init system? (2, Insightful)

hemna (205532) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466118)

yah I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw this part of the 'distro' and went...huh? Do we really need a new init system? Maybe if they described why they needed a new init system instead of just whining about Gentoo.

Re:Another new init system? (4, Interesting)

SlashdotOgre (739181) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466142)

I'm actually very impressed by Gentoo's new init system (baselayout-2) which was released to ~x86 not too long ago. It's so fast I'm actually considering just disabling the splash image, and it's very simple to configure (and even works with the init replacement projects like init-ng & einit). At work I'm mostly stuck with Sun's SMF (Service Management Facility) and find it too complex and inflexible. I haven't tried Apple's one, but I'm all for diversity. At the very least both Gentoo and Sun (and I'd presume Apple) can work with the legacy scripts, so if you don't like the fancy new methods feel free to stick with the old.

Re:Another new init system? (2, Insightful)

MrMr (219533) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466400)

Most replacements for SysV init are based on lack of knowledge of SysV init combined with an attitude problem (that writing code is much easier than understanding code). I gues you're taliking about Upstart (which is now used by Fedora 9 and Ubuntu). Upstart is different, because it is based on a thourough lack of knowledge of SysV init, crond, atd, udev, acpid and apmd all conveniently bundled into one single product.

Re:Another new init system? (4, Interesting)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466562)

I have to agree with you. Way back in the day I LOVED Slackware because I understood it's init system (it was just scripts. Worked great, and I constantly was praising it compared to the more traditional SysV systems.

THEN, in college I took at Unix admin class. Having used Linux for many years, I knew a lot of what they went over already, but one thing they hit on there was the SysV init system. Once I had a human teacher actually explain the system to me and how it worked, I actually switched preferences. SysV is very quick and simple to manipulate once you get the hang of it.

Aptly named? (4, Funny)

jesdynf (42915) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465920)

Yeah. That's right. Aptly named. Because boy, when I heard it described, "exherbo" just jumped out at me.

The year of the linux desktop,,, (5, Funny)

DanWS6 (1248650) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465922)

... is not going to come from this.

Re:The year of the linux desktop,,, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466506)

You heard it wrong, it's the year of the Linx Desktops. We're going to overwhelm the disbelievers by force of numbers.

It's all about digital divergence.

Rationale for new packaging system? (4, Insightful)

Dwedit (232252) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465926)

I'd like to see the rationale for creating yet another new packaging system. What's wrong with the current ways, and what will the new way fix?

Re:Rationale for new packaging system? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466230)

Exherbo is a source-based distribution like Gentoo. Gentoo uses ebuilds for managing packages. But Gentoo is too tied to their stale package manager (Portage) which means the ebuild format hasn't been updated for a long time. As a result of that, many features aren't implemented and probably never will be. This is what calls for another way of handling source-based installs. The list of involved people contains several current and former gentoo devs, that have fought for changes in gentoo and now, it seems, finally given up on ever seeing those changes implemented in gentoo.

ananymous coward (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465934)

Exactly what we need, another linux distro! 2^539404918012309 distro's wasn't enough, and 2^3439 packaging formats just didn't cover every way it could be done.

Hooray!

Another Linux Distro? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465940)

Not to flame, but we do need yet another Linux distribution?

Wouldn't it be more prudent to work on improving an existing, established distro?

Re:Another Linux Distro? (2, Funny)

DanWS6 (1248650) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465968)

Nope. All the other 500 previous distros weren't build properly, but this one will be. Mark their words.

Design Goals (4, Funny)

Mysteray (713473) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465944)

"Phrase all design goals in such a way that it is hard to use them as slogans to justify stupid changes."

It might be worth checking out just for that!

From TFA (5, Funny)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465950)

OK, I Want to Try Exherbo
No you don't.

Yes I Do
OK, maybe you do, but we don't particularly want you to try it because we don't want to deal with you whining when you find that absolutely nothing works. Exherbo isn't in a fit state for users. We might get there one day, but it's not a priority. Right now, all we care about is getting it into a fit state for a small number of developers.

We don't provide packages for lots of things you consider critical.

A lot of the packages we do provide don't work.

A lot of the packages that worked five minutes ago all just broke because we just decided to redesign several large features.

We don't provide support.

We don't provide install media.

We don't provide a usable init system.

Really, all we provide is a few things that the few people working on all this find useful for themselves. When we have something for anyone else, we'll let you know.


OK, I don't need to try it. However, I'm curious about one thing:

Former Gentoo developer Bryan Østergaard recently announced a new linux distribution aptly named Exherbo
OK, wikipedia has no clue what an "Exherbo" is. What is an "Exherbo" and why is it such an apt name? I don't speak Klingon, are there any Klingons here that can explain this to me?

From TFA I would guess that "Exherbo" means "fuck you" in Swahili?

NETCRAFT CONFIRMS IT!! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465952)

Exherbo is dead..

My God- Do we really need another?!?! (0, Redundant)

neowolf (173735) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465970)

Aren't there enough already? I know we don't want Linux to get stagnant (if that's even possible) but there are already hundreds of distributions, with a handful (or two) of "major" ones.

If he wants to make Linux easier to use- why not team up with {insert your favorite desktop distribution here}?

And really- "Exherbo"? What is that supposed to mean? It was hard enough to get my head around "Ubuntu".

Re:My God- Do we really need another?!?! (2, Insightful)

domatic (1128127) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466224)

Most of the minor distros are specialty items like Knoppix or toolkits like Trinity Rescue CD. Having more of such isn't going to hurt anything. Besides, projects like this are a good way of trying out radical ideas without breaking anything. And I suspect the answer to "not teaming up" is that it seems that many developers would rather be Chiefs than common braves.

Why is this a Slashdot story? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23465984)

They state clearly on their page [exherbo.org] that

In Conclusion
It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us.
They don't have a finished product. They don't even have a product yet. There is nothing to see, and they say it as well. Post this on slashdot when there is something to see. Then they will be happy about the traffic and the press, but now it's just a link to a page that says that maybe, one day, there will be yet another linux distro that wants to make everything better and nicer than the current Big Players(tm).

Re:Why is this a Slashdot story? (1, Insightful)

jesdynf (42915) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466240)

It's worse than that. This isn't a distro, it's just a slap in the face to Gentoo -- and without any justification in the form of running code. They, in fact, are canvassing for your help to help cash the check their mouth wrote.

Now, I can't tell you whether or not Gentoo merits a slap in the face, but whether or not they're right doesn't have anything to do with that they've done.

Re:Why is this a Slashdot story? (1)

Symbolis (1157151) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466340)

Except for the fact that they quite clearly state that they don't want your help. Or anyone's help.

New build system? (1)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465990)

Can we get a new build system as well? None of other ones are up to the task: Ubuntu/Debian's / Red Hat's / Gentoo's (oobvioously) / OpenEmbedded.

How is this news? (1, Flamebait)

pbaer (833011) | more than 4 years ago | (#23465992)

New linux distros are being made all the time, why does this distro deserve attention over any of those other new distros?

What does Exherbo mean? (1, Funny)

Robotech_Master (14247) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466026)

Um...how about...

"Jose Exherbo, you are a friend of mine..."

Well, okay, maybe not.

Re:What does Exherbo mean? (1)

hemna (205532) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466188)

It means yet another linux distro because some user got pissed for no reason.....oh yah and a new init system. yah we really needed a new one.

Full of fail (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466050)

Full of fail

helping the lead is good old...
Ciaran McCreesh

Who got kicked as a Gentoo dev, not once but twice and continues to troll the gentoo mailing list

The rest of his clique who work on Exherbo's "package manager" Poopludis has sucessfully made it so that if it is used in Gentoo in a certain way it actually breaks compatability with the support package manager: Portage

So basically this group of individuals who don't play well with others and who got kicked/left gentoo-dev decide to "fork" gentoo while still bitchen about it AND syncing against the Gentoo tree (since they are gonna need packages after all)

Full of phaile.
Seriously that group /really/ don't play well with others

Re:Full of fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466076)

Everything in the parent post is a lie.

So... many... emotions (0, Troll)

hansraj (458504) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466062)

Exherbo is not, at the moment, a user-targeted distribution. It supports packages that the people involved find interesting or useful; it probably does not support your favourite desktop environment or applications. That kind of thing will come later -- there are plenty of other options for users who want a distribution that does everything badly rather than a few things well.
I think they already achieved that milestone. Why not call it Release 1.0 already? Or maybe Release Candidate 1.0 in keeping up with the fashion these days?

Now really, why do they need to fork (yeah, yeah! They say it's not a fork) Gentoo? I think I just figured it out. It's so obvious:

Newer and faster processors are catching up with the Gentoo way of doing things. I can't describe what is the Gentoo way of doing things but I can somewhat describe what is not. A package completing its install, before a new release, is not the Gentoo way. So we clearly need a new distribution to show those new processors who is the boss and to keep the level of pain^W Gentoo Experience (TM) that we masochists^W Gentoo users enjoy.

Since I have already spent so much of my precious time enlightening the Slashdot population about this new distribution, I think I will go ahead and summarize parts of the announcement too. In particular the "Why the Need?" section.

It's not that we think that Gentoo is bad. ... yada yada

Aspects we find particularly problematic include:
* Gentoo (packaging) sucks
* Gentoo (management) sucks
* Gentoo (developers) suck
* Gentoo (users) suck
* Gentoo (developers) suck
* Why Am I Here? What's the purpose?
TFA is a comedy gold!

PS: All the best to the developers. Can't wait to try it out!
PPS: The PS was made in all sincerity and its spirit should not be confused with that of the rest of the post ;-)

What are the goals? What are the differences? (0, Redundant)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466096)

In this age, anyone can wrap up packages together and come up with a distribution.

The big question is, What are the goals of the distribution, and What sets it apart from the thousands of other distros out there? Also, can the work in this distro be easily ported to other distros (If so, why not work on an already established distribution)?

What I want in a packaging system: (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466170)

Binary packages that Just Work(tm)

Application packages that can be built from source and Just Work with the libraries that are installed (i.e. automatically "USE" what I have installed) instead of requiring me to install various databases and other random libraries for features I won't ever use.

Debian and many others get the first part right. Gentoo could have gotten the second part right without too much pain, but then they went and created an arcane variable to make things hard.

Bonus points if "exherbo-get upgrade" detects which source packages I've custom-built, and upgrades them with new custom-built source packages (optionally built in the background?), instead of ignoring updates (pinned in Debian), or overwriting them with whatever binary package (not pinned in Debian).

Poorly designed with elitism in mind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466272)

Usability? Is that some kind of stone-age buzzword?

uh, what? (1)

pak9rabid (1011935) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466282)

So it's not going to use one of the big two package management systems (deb, rpm)? That's idiotic. So they've pretty much screwed themselves on it ever being adopted in most business applications. C'mon guys. Just use whatever is already out there and has withstood the test of time before reinventing the wheel. And yea..don't even get me started on a NEW init system...

Re:uh, what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466710)

So it's not going to use one of the big two package management systems (deb, rpm)? That's idiotic.

Actually, you're the one being idiotic here. We wouldn't have .deb or .rpm if Debian and Red Hat had just 'used whatever was already out there', i.e. Slackware's .tgz format.

So they've pretty much screwed themselves on it ever being adopted in most business applications.

Why does that need to be their short-term goal? Linux (the kernel) was pretty much screwed from the get-go for ever being adopted in most business applications. By your logic, why ever do anything new?

C'mon guys. Just use whatever is already out there and has withstood the test of time before reinventing the wheel. And yea..don't even get me started on a NEW init system...

The current sysvinit system really really sucks. Somebody will eventually come up with something better to replace it. Apparently you're against that.

Translation from Star Developer Speech to English (5, Funny)

martinw89 (1229324) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466302)

>>> Exherbo is a distribution designed for people who know what they're doing with Linux.

Are you so badass that gentoo is like ripping candy out of newb babie hands? Exherbo!

>>> Although it shares some code with Gentoo, and although many concepts are similar, and although many of the people involved were or are Gentoo developers, most Exherbo code is rewritten from scratch.

We know way more than those Gentoo tards will ever know.

>>> Exherbo is not, at the moment, a user-targeted distribution.

Come on... you want it, don't you? You want to be so badass to use my awesome distro, to be the most leetest person ever.

>>> It's not that we think that Gentoo is bad.

Gentoo is wretched for our godly needs.

>>> OK, I Want to Try Exherbo

I am high as a kite.

>>> Right now, all we care about is getting it into a fit state for a small number of developers.

We're announcing this publicly because we have no idea what product we're presenting, but we'll make it sound fucking awesome compared to everything else, plus way wore leetsauce, so we can get some actual developers to contribute something useful to make our project objectively good.

>>> The above paragraph does not apply if your pet project is something we find interesting.

Again, if you have anything that will make this distro more than a publicity stunt, for the love of god, please let us know.

>>> It's not that we hate you (unless we do).

Forgot how much better we are then you? You did? OK, in conclusion, fuck you.



Credit where credit's due: John Gruber [daringfireball.net] and Mark Pilgrim [diveintomark.org]

Christ, our Saviour, has been born! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466442)

From God our heavenly Father,
A blessèd angel came;
And unto certain shepherds,
Brought tidings of the same;
How that in Bethlehem was born,
The Son of God by name!

O tidings of comfort and joy
Comfort and joy
O tidings of comfort and joy

But when to Bethlehem they came
Whereat this Infant lay;
They found Him in a manger
Where oxen feed on hay;
His Mother Mary kneeling,
Unto the Lord did pray!

O tidings of comfort and joy!

Come on everybody!! Rejoice the birth of Jesus! What are you waiting for? Christmas??
He was born to save each and every one of us! Let us all pray to the Lord, in the name of Jesus, and celebrate this happy time as did the shepherds in Bethlehem!

Carrie

I'm inspired! (1)

ISurfTooMuch (1010305) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466444)

Because of this project, I'm developing a new Linux distro. It's based on Slackware, so I've decided to name it Slackerware. I've assembled a development team of folks I've talked to down at a few local college bars, and, as soon as everyone sobers up, we'll start working on it. However, be warned that this will likely take quite a while. We're thinking something may be ready by...well, we don't have a firm date yet because we haven't met to discuss it. Well, actually, we did meet, but we ended up playing NTN trivia instead. But as soon as we get off our lazy asses and do something, I promise you that Slackerware will be the coolest distro ever.

BTW, $3 pitchers at The Legacy tonight! Who's in?

Hexquan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466460)

From the website: "It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."

Ahh, that says it all. But than again, why even bother telling us about your secret elite project? Such a waste of time and energy, when you could easily change your gentoo-like build system (which is totally uncompatibile with gentoo for obvious reasons) several times.

M-x: sarcasm-mode-off

Nice attitude, guys! (4, Insightful)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466464)

Do we need more of this elitistic bullshit?

Exherbo is not, at the moment, a user-targeted distribution. It supports packages that the people involved find interesting or useful; it probably does not support your favourite desktop environment or applications. That kind of thing will come later there are plenty of other options for users who want a distribution that does everything badly rather than a few things well. ...

It's not that we think that Gentoo is bad. It's just that we think we can do something that suits our needs better. We've tried, without success, to do this using Gentoo. Unfortunately, Gentoo has serious shortcomings in several areas that stopped this from being a viable long-term approach (...) Portage. (...) Gentoo management. (...) QA. (...) The users. (...) Lack of overall design and direction.

Thank God there's much more to that distro you don't think is bad at all. ...

- OK, I Want to Try Exherbo.
- No you don't.
- Yes I Do
- OK, maybe you do, but we don't particularly want you to try it because we don't want to deal with you whining when you find that absolutely nothing works. (...) We don't provide packages for lots of things you consider critical. A lot of the packages we do provide don't work. A lot of the packages that worked five minutes ago all just broke because we just decided to redesign several large features. We don't provide support. We don't provide install media. We don't provide a usable init system.
- But I'm a Developer, and I Want to Try Exherbo
- Well, you know who to talk to if you need to be told where to find the shiny things. And no, we don't want to use Exherbo to implement your pet project. Especially not if it's a stupid pet project. Go and inflict it upon Gentoo, they think that porting ebuilds to run on SunOS 2 ksh under Cygwin is a great idea.
...

Wow! It sounds great! Do i need a secret decoder ring to read the sourcecode?

Seriously. I'm a Gentoo user and this sounded like a great thing to peek into - Gentoo is not without its share of things to fix/improve. But come on. What exactly are they announcing here? A distro tailored for a handful of users (which is nice) that we can't download, try or even ask about.

In Conclusion: It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us.

Sounds like it's coming along great, eh? Do us a favor and make your work public when, you know, it is useable by the public. Or even watchable.

Re:Nice attitude, guys! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#23466614)

The source code isn't difficult to find... Ohloh has a list of repositories [ohloh.net] you can play with. I imagine it's just another way of ensuring they don't get too many users.

I've heard this before... (1)

meadowsoft (831583) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466528)

"The developers strongly discourage any serious use though as it's still highly experimental"

They said the same thing about democracy...

How to get your "distro" to be "big news" on /. (1)

seandiggity (992657) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466584)

Just post some long message about what you don't like in current distros and how you can do better. Then give it a stupid name, tell people they shouldn't look at it, and tinker with the code for a few months.

Note: Whether it ever runs is an afterthought. Building a community is not even an afterthought.

Exherbo (1)

indy_Muad'Dib (869913) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466636)

Exherbo, for people who thought Gentoo wasn't rice enough.

every install disk comes with a free R-Type sticker* for the side of your case.

*notice: free R-Type sticker requires a stage 0 build, reguired packages include:
Pens
Paper
Markers
tape or similar adhesive

but he didn't say what's wrong with Gentoo (4, Interesting)

pseudorand (603231) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466672)

I'll start by saying that I'm an unashamed Gentoo fanboy, so mod as appropriate, but Mr. Østergaard seems to have forgotten to mention what he dislikes about Gentoo in either his blog entry or on exherbo.org. He says that Gentoo developers, users, Fanboys, and community are bad, but the most specific technical comment he made was a criticism that someone undertook "porting ebuilds to run on SunOS 2 ksh under Cygwin", which is apparently bad. He simply says of portage that it's "broken and unmaintainable", but he doesn't say why. He says Exherbo option handeling is "much improved" compared to Gentoo's USE flags, but again doesn't say what's wrong with USE flags. (I get around unintended consequences simply by enabling/disabling things on a package-by package basis, so if he's talking about that...).

I've been using gentoo quite happily for almost 3 years now on various servers as well as desktops for multiple users (no, I don't `emerge world` nightly), so I'm quite interested in what's wrong with portage (It's a godsend from my perspective) and the rest of gentoo. Seriously, I'd really like to know what's going to bite me in the arse here. But alas, Mr. Østergaard criticisms of Gentoo were far to vague and his design goals for Exherbo were equally vague and silly. Maybe he, or someone other than than the Trolls, other distro fanboys, and non-techy former Gentoo users who got burnt and should never have used it in the first place can please point me in the direction of some unbias and fair evaluations of Gentoo's strengths and weaknesses.

Suspiciously familiar (3, Insightful)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 4 years ago | (#23466684)

While some points made are valid (eg portage, along with most other package managers sucks, and Gentoo's management is inefficient) it seems like the distro is completely misguided.

If anything, we need to be focusing on user-friendly *nixes, not developer torture - less still something more hellish than Gentoo. If someone desperately wants a system like this, they can read LFS. Or strip down a Gentoo install. That way, they're also more likely to get something that's more suited to their needs. And isn't written by someone who looks like they'd happily eat n00b stew for lunch.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...