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P2P Traffic Shaping For Home Use?

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the just-say-rst dept.

Networking 288

An anonymous reader writes "My housemate uses an aggressive P2P client, that when in use makes the Internet unusable for everyone else connected to the network. After hearing about various ISPs shaping traffic to reduce P2P traffic, I was wondering if there was a solution for managing P2P traffic on a home network. I have a Linksys WRT54G available for hacking. Can Slashdot recommend a way to reduce the impact of P2P on my network and make it usable again?"

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Need more input! (2, Insightful)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 6 years ago | (#23531972)

I have a Linksys WRT54G available...

Which version? Check the model tag, it should say there...

Re:Need more input! (4, Funny)

Divebus (860563) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532162)

Simple - take a BIG HAMMER to his computer.

Re:Need more input! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532180)

Can you expand on this? Something like "if the version happens to be xxx then you could do foo, if the version happens to be yyy then you could do bar..." Surely you don't just want to solve this guy's problem, but you want to tell everything you know about "P2P traffic shaping for home use" and be useful to more people.

Re:Need more input! (4, Informative)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532438)

Can you expand on this? Something like "if the version happens to be xxx then you could do foo, if the version happens to be yyy then you could do bar..."

Good point. How 'bout a wikipedia link for the WRT54G, [wikipedia.org] with entries on available firmware?

Re:Need more input! (5, Informative)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532474)

Any WRT54G model before v5 can be modified easily, v5+ can sometimes be modified with DD-WRT. And of course they still sell the GL, which is quite worth the price ($60 on amazon) because of how useful it becomes with this alternate firmware. The GL can also be modified and has the advantage of still being sold under a clear model number, so you know you can mod it, unlike others.

On the other hand, there is awesome shaping available in tomato firmware, it can classify traffic and show you what percentage of your traffic was in each class.

http://www.polarcloud.com/img/ssqosc108.png [polarcloud.com]
http://www.polarcloud.com/img/ssqosg108.png [polarcloud.com]
http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato [polarcloud.com]

Re:Need more input! (1, Informative)

garbletext (669861) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532476)

To hack a wrt54g, you either need an old one (v1-3, I believe) or the hacker friendly WRT54GL. The newer versions don't run linux.

OpenWRT requirements (3, Informative)

j1m+5n0w (749199) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532486)

OpenWRT hardware requirements [openwrt.org] If it's version 4.0 or earlier (or the L model), it has enough RAM and flash (16MB, 4MB respectively) to run OpenWRT, or other wrt54g-friendly distributions. (OpenWRT is pretty cool; it has an olsrd package you can install from the web configurator, and with a little bit of effort you can make an ad-hoc mesh. Not useful for traffic shaping, but interesting nonetheless. I expect there are probably tools available to do traffic shaping with OpenWRT as well, I just never needed to mess with that.)

It's simple with OpenWrt (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23531974)

Install OpenWrt, then:

ipkg install qos-scripts
vi /etc/config/qos
[ enter your linespeed in the right place ]

qos-start

Re:It's simple with OpenWrt (5, Informative)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532464)

Or install Tomato [polarcloud.com] and go to the QOS tab. It is pretty simple to get QOS going on Tomato

How about ask? (5, Insightful)

Alioth (221270) | more than 6 years ago | (#23531978)

How about just nicely explaining the problem to him, and requests he runs his P2P stuff overnight when no one is using the connection?

If that doesn't work, well, his port on the switch might mysteriously fail during waking hours.

Re:How about ask? (3, Informative)

kesuki (321456) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532056)

as opposed to using traffic shaping, you can force the guy to switch clients to azureus http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

in advanced mode, you can set upload and download maximums, if you plan on allowing this, and using latency specific online gaming, you should set the limits to HALF of what azureus is capable of without anyone using the internet.

All major clients, but it still requires talking.. (5, Insightful)

Nerobro (303656) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532100)

I love how people pimp their own client. But nearly every PTP client I've touched, has bandwidth limiting. Some of them, uTorrent included, allows you to schedule your bandwidth.

The real problem here isn't traffic shaping, but about traffic courtesy. Your housemate may not know how much trouble their causing. Talk to them. Get them to set their max speeds to 1/2 or 1/4 of the available bandwidth.

They may be surprised when their OWN web browsing gets better.

Yet this does all hinge on you talking to said housemate. Go talk. I've had the "talk" and been the person talking to the housemate. It usually works out well.

Re:All major clients, but it still requires talkin (4, Funny)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532170)

tell him that his .torrent-ing is adversely affecting your social life on WoW. He'll either understand, or not.

If not, just use some DPS and hide behind the couch....

Re:All major clients, but it still requires talkin (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532362)

"I love how people pimp their own client. But nearly every PTP client I've touched, has bandwidth limiting. Some of them, uTorrent included, allows you to schedule your bandwidth."

And i love how hackers on slashdot pimp uTorrent no matter how many security professionals classify it as a Trojan horse.

god just because you get paid for rooting peoples systems doesn't mean you need to pimp it around on a board supposedly full of technology experts.

uTorrent is based on the dancing pigs problem, it's designed to give the people their dancing pigs (free movie downloads etc) allowing a trojan horse to get past otherwise secured systems.

it works, it's why i only use open source programs (when they are available) because OSS at least makes it a trifle harder to hide a dancing pig.

Re:All major clients, but it still requires talkin (1)

garbletext (669861) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532494)

This is total bullshit. uTorrent is the most popular bittorrent client by far for a very good reason. It's the best win32 client available. It was bought by Bitorrent inc, and is now their official client, afaik. Provide a reliable site, please.

Re:How about ask? (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532154)

utorrent can do the same with 50% or more less cpu load.

Re:How about ask? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532412)

Limiting the bandwidth isn't enough. In my experience, you need to limit the number of connections (say, 16 per torrent and 64 total) as well. Also, EtherApe is good to help explain the problem, and if everything else fails, APR poisoning is a way to prevent abuse without leaving any traces on the router.

Re:How about ask? (2, Informative)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532086)

That would be my suggestion aswell...

Besides, whatever client he is using, must have its own throttle, tell him/her to set it to like 75% of what the line can handle.

Some have timers too, so it can be 50/50 during multiple use, and 100% when he's the only one. Which is far easier than tweaking/hacking something you don't really use that often, and you may want to allow other software to use 100% (or as much as possible) on his machine (file sharing over the network, etc).

Re:How about ask? (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532126)

Right. In fact, many P2P applications (at least bittorrent stuff) allows you to set max up/down rates. These can even be set on-the-fly, meaning you could let them download full-speed most of the time, but ask them nicely to throttle back when you're using the Internet. You know, like "Hey man, I'm trying to do something online, could you drop down to 20kbps for the next few hours?" Or whatever. Find a bitrate that won't hurt your usage

Unless your roommate is completely unreasonable, he'll go along with it. If your roommate is entirely unreasonable, you might want to consider not living with him.

Re:How about ask? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532188)

That would require communication skills. I live in a nerd-pad with two other anti-social nerds and stuff like this is a constant problem. Roommate X is annoyed at Roommate Y for whatever reason, but rather than just say it plainly, he goes to Roommate Z to whine about it.

Is it really a problem? Well, if it is, then it shouldn't be too big of a deal to talk about it, and get the problem solved.

Re:How about ask? (1)

hemorex (1013427) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532430)

What I did to correct the same issue was to preset an access policy that totally banned the wife's IP. When I start seeing lag spikes in WoW, I just enable that policy for a minute or two... works like a champ, heh.

Talk to your housemate (5, Insightful)

Dolohov (114209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23531984)

Seriously. An arms race is not going to solve your problem.

Re:Talk to your housemate (4, Insightful)

ozamosi (615254) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532060)

When I use bittorrent, I like to squeeze out as much bandwith as possible. However, I don't like when others get annoyed.

To fix the annoyance, I would have to limit my bandwidth usage at some times of the day - and I wouldn't just have to limit my usage according to when the other tenants are awake, and according to when they use how much bandwidth, but also according to how much bandwidth my ISP feels like giving me today (my ISP is seriously bandwidth starved).

If my router had good QoS, I wouldn't have to worry about annoying others, while still being able to use all spare bandwidth. I would definitely prefer this solution.

Re:Talk to your housemate (2, Informative)

eli2k (948315) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532222)

If you are both roommates, and share the Internet, it is unfair for one person to disrupt things such that no one else can access the Internet. Otherwise make him pay for his own line and he can do whatever he wants. You don't all want to get in trouble, right?

QoS (4, Informative)

llamalad (12917) | more than 6 years ago | (#23531986)

Just set up QoS such that VOIP, SMTP, HTTP, HTTPS, and whatever else you care about gets prioritized.

Re:QoS (1)

bendodge (998616) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532418)

Easy way: load DD-WRT onto your WRT54G and set his Ethernet port to a lower priority than everyone else. (Assuming he's using Ethernet.)

Re:QoS (2, Funny)

Easy2RememberNick (179395) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532484)

Lock down the router with a password and then put epoxy or superglue over the router reset button. If it's already protected reset it, put your own password there and then do all that.

  Even better hide the router inline where the cable comes into the house, they'll never know ;)

  FYI DD-WRT or Tomato are two good router firmware replacements.

Re:QoS (1)

garbletext (669861) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532514)

If your provider is Comcast this will not work. Comcast is my provider in two geographically disparate locations ans so much as running a torrent at very low speeds will destroy my connection in both places.

In the days of Napster (4, Funny)

eric76 (679787) | more than 6 years ago | (#23531990)

In the days of Napster, a nephew of mine spent a year living with me while going to college nearby.

His use of Napster would make the cable modem connection unusable. In response, I'd go to the home firewall device (had one of the early Linksys models) and block the traffic.

He thought the cable company was doing it.

Re:In the days of Napster (1)

Leonard Fedorov (1139357) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532008)

Genius! Set up filtering of your own, and then subtly steer the blame to the ISP. As long as he doesn't check the settings that should work. Of course, you could try talking to him, but then if he refuses it ruins the credability of the above plan somewhat.

Re:In the days of Napster (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532104)

Of course, you could try talking to him, but then if he refuses it ruins the credability of the above plan somewhat.
Not at all. After he refuses to talk about it, you block his traffic then when he says something's up you say "Shit! I tried to talk to you about this but you wouldn't listen. I knew this would happen. The Cable Company must be fucking with our access. They've probably told the police too! Right... you hide in the attic until this blows over. I'll say you've fled to Brazil or something."

I hate these posts... I thought this was a news bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23531992)

A few seconds of Googling will take you to dd-wrt.

Obvious (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532000)

Beat the shit out of the fucker.

Re:Obvious (1)

Ice Wewe (936718) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532160)

Alternative to physical action, you could always send a bunch of emails from a bogus return/sender email address (like that of your ISP) claiming to be a copyright holder who will sue the pants off him if he continues.

Or, you could just prioritize traffic from everyone else's MAC addresses.

Is this geek bait? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532010)

Come on. Use the Internet. In less than a minute Google had the answer.

Man up! (3, Insightful)

zogger (617870) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532012)

Tell this person to stop being a hog and to drop upload and download speeds so that other people can use the net. This is a social problem that doesn't need a techno fix. Either that or tell them to get their own connection, stop sharing it with them.

DDWRT gives you a GUI then you can.... (1)

WayCool (107037) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532016)

Set up QoS, set bittorrent protocol to Bulk and everything else to standard. If you are using VoIP, you might want to set it [VoIP] to Premium.

All done through a simple GUI interface. Enjoy!

Re:DDWRT gives you a GUI then you can.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532076)

Although the GUI looks nice, the DD-WRT QoS doesn't really work in practice

Re:DDWRT gives you a GUI then you can.... (3, Informative)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532346)

Yea, I finally gave up on DD-WRT. It was unstable and a resource hog. Tomato is a MUCH better option if you want a web gui.

My pings dropped 10ms and the QOS actually works.

get a PC with smoothwall linux (2, Informative)

kesuki (321456) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532018)

you can put it between the router and the net if you're using the wireless capabilities.

a forum about traffic shaping with smoothwall

http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?s=dffc19493975498724b50564217f05e4&showtopic=3250&pid=11502&st=0&#entry11502 [linux-noob.com]

smoothwall linux
http://www.smoothwall.org/ [smoothwall.org]

Re:get a PC with smoothwall linux (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532340)

I agree the only thing I use my router for is NAT. There is nothing like a good firewall, QOS and caching proxy and you are not going to get that on a consumer grade router. Smoothwall is a decent way to start out but you can get addicted and soon be trying a more custom solution. For a lot of people it is their introduction to system management.

IpCop with Layer 7 Filter (1)

BlueHabu (906320) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532022)

Works Great but took some work to get it all setup IpCop 1.4.18 QoS Kernel QoS NG 1.5.1 I had to modify some code to get the filter rules to update off of sourceforge.

Anonymous Coward (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532024)

Switch to Comcast!

Re:Anonymous Coward (1, Funny)

OMNIpotusCOM (1230884) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532090)

LOL. You win, thread over.

Re:Anonymous Coward (1)

athdemo (1153305) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532148)

Wish I had mod points for this one.

QoS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532026)

What your looking for is a quality of service router (duuurrrr) and they generally come with specific hardware or software (usually) to classify and queue your local network packets.

So as to your original question of hacking your current Linksys WRT54G to make it viable for such action, I would more than likely say no unless you can reverse engineer Linksys (Cisco) hardware/software.

Easy solution? Go buy yourself a QoS enabled router. I'm currently using a D-Link and am in a similar situation as you and I have to admit that it has saved me a LOT of grief. I can download at 1MB/sec and still have 30 ping to my favorite CoD4 server.

-Anon Coward

Re:QoS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532328)

So as to your original question of hacking your current Linksys WRT54G to make it viable for such action, I would more than likely say no unless you can reverse engineer Linksys (Cisco) hardware/software.

Fail [dd-wrt.com] .

1st off (5, Informative)

atarione (601740) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532028)

a. 1st off and most importantly make sure the internet connection isn't in your name so you are not the one who gets sued by the RIAA b. go get DD-WRT (check your WRT54G version..later one's suck) then set up the traffic shaping QoS feature. http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Quality_of_Service [dd-wrt.com]

Re:1st off (2, Insightful)

atarione (601740) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532048)

also... sorry should have thought of this before posting have u tried asking them nicely to configure their p2p client(s) in a more neighborly manner?

mmm, Tomato (2, Informative)

straponego (521991) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532132)

I quite like Tomato firmware as well: http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato [polarcloud.com]

It also has QoS features, and a nice AJAX interface.

And after you install DD-WRT... (2, Informative)

Tau Neutrino (76206) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532270)

In the Administration section, on the Management page, make some changes to the IP Filter Settings. Set the Maximum Ports to 4096 (the maximum), and the Timeout values for both TCP and UDP to 120 seconds.

Running Azureus used to kill all the other network activity on my LAN. These changes made all the difference in the world.

Re:And after you install DD-WRT... (1)

freakyfreak2 (613574) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532386)

I was going to suggest this as well. This is the most common reason for p2p traffic to take a network down. This is the second setting after the transmit wattage I edit when installing DD-WRT onto a wireless router

Re:And after you install DD-WRT... (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532446)

I'll tried setting Maximum Ports to 4096 and that made some difference, but not a lot. I'll try the Timeout ...checking...oh, it's already at 3600 seconds. Will reducing the values to 120 seconds have a positive effect (you don't say whether it's reducing or increasing that is important)?

I use DD-WRT on my WRT54G, and just using the QoS didn't make much different. My theory is that it isn't (just) the bandwidth that is the issue but the number of connections. I adjusted my client to reduce the number of connections and it freed up pretty much everything else. I can only assume my ISP limits the number of connections more than my router.

Re:1st off (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532312)

I've never used it, but I just thought I'd mention that the default WRT54G firmware from Linksys also has QoS settings that can be adjusted. I'm sure they're far more basic than what you'd get from some of the third party firmwares, but it's worth trying out for starters.

It sounds like the OP didn't even begin looking into any solutions before crying to slashdot with his roommate problems.

Buy another Linksys and link them. (2, Interesting)

ITIL Prince (968673) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532038)

My Linksys WRT54G is notorious for getting slower and slower over time when we use P2P here at the house. I found that rebooting it every day helped. Not even DD-WRT made that problem go away. I think the Linksys just didn't have enough "oomph" to do traffic shaping. There's an interesting solution I came up with - buy a second Linksys and flash it with DD-WRT. Turn on traffic shaping for all ports. Use the second Linksys as your Internet facing router, and leave the default firmware on it, but define the second Linksys as your DMZ system. It works, and for some reason the first Linksys doesn't need to be rebooted all the time.

Re:Buy another Linksys and link them. (3, Informative)

Angry Rooster (972166) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532182)

When I bought a WRT54G I had the same problem... mine is v6. Apparently after v4 Linksys(or more accurately Cisco, who owns them) lowered the internal memory to lessen the effectiveness of third party flashing. Unfortunately in doing so, they made their routers horrible. There isn't enough memory to hold larger IP tables, so bittorrent traffic and the like bogs it down until it needs a restart. DDWRT helps a little, in that you can schedule restarts to go every hour or so, but the sporatic connection is less than ideal. My solution was similar to the above. I just used my older model wired Linksys router to handle all the IP routing and set the WRT54G(with DDWRT) as a pass-through device. It's unfortunate that they felt like crippling a perfectly useful router just because free firmware made it competitive with their high end products.

Re:Buy another Linksys and link them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532220)

the WRT54g defaults to an extremely small maximum number of allowed connections. With older firmwares, the connection tracking table would fill up quickly, and the thing would crash. In DD-WRT, you can bump up the number of allowed simultaneous connections, and that seems to fix the slow down problems.

Its called discipline (1)

javab0y (708376) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532046)

Lay down the smack on the family...its the best traffic shaping you can do in the house. Who wears the pants? Not even ComCast can stop traffic like that!

1. report roomate to RIAA/MPAA 2. collect reward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532052)

3. profit

4. problem solved!

QoS is definitely recommended (2, Informative)

Lilkat (978331) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532058)

I have the same issue at home, except I'm the one who is running bittorrent. As of right now, it is not perfect, but it has greatly improved since I started doing tweaks. The first thing I did was install DD-WRT on the router. After that, I maxed the connection limit to 4096 and set the timeout to a low setting, like 5 minutes. From there, I did some modifications to the QoS settings. If a wired connection is used, set his connection to the lowest priority, and the rest to the top priority. This is not perfect, so I'm still tweaking things to obtain a better outcome. The other suggestion is to tell him to use the scheduler feature found in the bittorrent client; a little bit of downtime at peak times goes a long way to keep harmony at home. -Lilkat

Easiest way: Raise QoS of OTHER traffic. (5, Informative)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532098)

Raise priority for

    - Web (Http and https, maybe also 8080)
    - DNS (UDP:53)
    - Mail (SMTP, IMAP, POP3 (including SSL versions))
    - IRC (if you use)
    - FTP
    - SSH, Telnet
    - All TCP acknowledgement packets.
    - Maybe some gaming protocols (Directplay, WoW, etc - these unfortunately require checking docs for each game)

that way, you have whitelisted most of the "interactive" protocols that suffer from loaded link. No need to keep chasing after the latest encrypted, onion routed P2P application that happens to be flavor of the month. The biggest problem is the online gaming stuff.

Re:Easiest way: Raise QoS of OTHER traffic. (1)

Simulant (528590) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532172)

MOD parent up. This is one of the easiest way to solve the problem. A better but more complex way is mucking around with the L7filter in dd-wrt which is tricky.

An easier way, if you've got the set up, is to do what I do; my vonage box gets the highest priority, my PC gets next highest and my home server, which does all the downloading as well as email is third along with everything else.

I can game, talk on the phone and download at 3-4mbps at the same time with no hiccups.

free sveasoft (1)

Rhett (141440) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532118)

hey, I will get some bashing, but this works: http://wrt54g.thermoman.de/ [thermoman.de] I noticed that traffic shaping adds some latency (~20ms), and you have to be willing to give up some bandwidth for it to work propery. For example, if you're on 3Mbps DSL, you want to set your router to throttle you at maybe 2Mbps, or 90% of what you acutally get most of the time, so the router is alwasy throttling before the ISP, and the router can properly prioritize packets.

Re:free sveasoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532318)

No bashing, just dd-wrt is better, and free from the get go.

the human approach (3, Insightful)

Peganthyrus (713645) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532134)

Presumably saying "Hey, dude, can you throttle the hell out of your P2P? I'm getting no net whatsoever." is not an option.

If so, yeah, you could try looking into the alternate firmwares for the router; they let you throttle stuff based on ports. You'll have to look at the serial number to know for sure if you can stick that in, or spend like $80 or whatever for the WRTGL, which has enough firmware space to do fun things.

Is this a technical problem or a sociological one? (2, Insightful)

AdamHaun (43173) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532140)

What about talking to the housemate to get them to use a less aggressive client? Most P2P software that I know of has bandwidth cap options built in, which makes me think the poster is trying to do this under the table. How is the housemate going to react if/when they find out about it? Is this really a problem that's best addressed with technology?

Just speak to him! (5, Interesting)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532146)

My housemate has a machine setup for bittorrent, when we first moved in together it was very annoying as he seemed oblivious that running it all the time meant that my connections were slow, dropping all the time & unusable.

So I spoke to him, you know - in a rational way. It's now scheduled for the nights & days when we're either asleep or at work with a few hours in between & most of the weekends where it's either throttled down to 10k/s (by uTorrent) or stopped completely.

On top of that we've got a Smoothwall box with packet prioritization for ssh/web/email/im etc. but no bandwidth throttling.

At the end of the day, if you cant come to an agreement then it's probably just gonna get worse for you two and there's nothing you can do to stop him being an asshole.

Re:Just speak to him! (4, Interesting)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532244)

I had a housemate who ran P2P software all the time without even realizing it. Talking to him did nothing. Limiting the number of outbound packets from his computer to a certain number per second with a fairly high burst solved the problem. He liked playing WoW and when his WoW connection started getting all weird and I told him it was his P2P sofware he started to make sure it wasn't running. The average cap I set was plenty enough for WoW and enough for a decent download speed for P2P as well.

I'm all for bandwidth throttling and traffic shaping as long as it's to ensure usage fairness. If I were running an ISP I would have a per-customer 5 minute bandwidth meter and customers who had exceeded their share for 5 minutes would have all their traffic dropped to the lowest priority until there was a 5 minute interval in which they hadn't exceeded their share.

And it would be share of total pipe available to the ISP's upstreams, not some arbitrary fixed cap per customer. If the P2P application were written to favor connecting to other customers of the ISP that would be a way to avoid the re-prioritization completely.

Change your firmware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532166)

What you need to do is install third party firmware on it. I highly recommend Tomato, been using it for a while and it works great. Sharing internet on 3 PCs. Even when someone is using p2p programs we can use voip or play games without any problems.

More info:
http://www.squidoo.com/wrt54g-firmware

Note that if your WRT54G is version 5 or newer, it somewhat limits your choices but some firmware can be used even with these routers.

solve the problem at the client (1)

onescomplement (998675) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532168)

Insist they use a client that can behave itself. I believe that Azeurus and MicroTorrent are in that category - and require they tune it down to a responsible level.

Re:solve the problem at the client (1)

dougsyo (84601) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532388)

Insist they use a client that can behave itself. I believe that Azeurus and MicroTorrent are in that category - and require they tune it down to a responsible level.
I suppose this is a better choice than a roommatectomy. I had to do that once (abuse of my house though, not my internet connection).

Doug

Brute Force (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532174)

If you haven't tried anything yet, use brute force! ;)

(Or offer him some home-made beer [kuro5hin.org] .)

Bandwidth limiters (1)

jasticE (196565) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532178)

If the issue is only with a limited numbers of computers running P2P software, and that software doesn't have options of limiting bandwidth built in, the simplest solution would be a client-side bandwidth limiter. There are plenty (see your favorite search engine) available that let you throttle bandwidth use for specific applications.

Paying taxes? YOU fund war for oil and horrors (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532186)

Plenty of people mock the 1960's hippies, but fail to see the truth:

The hippies were not weak and useless by themselves, any fruitful movements were penetrated by government intelligence and rendered useless, read history and discover this for yourself.

In the 1960's you see people breaking away from the cattle control of the government and doing their own thing, forming their own communities. Today any serious break away group or community, whether they be truly peaceful or whether they harbor ill intentions, are penetrated and scattered. I'm surprised the Amish are allowed to exist in today's world, but I'm sure they are heavily infiltrated and kept under constant observation. There have been attempts to bring them into the grid as I'm sure they will be swallowed into it given enough time and excuses.

Do you hate the war in Iraq? The futile and immoral war on drugs?

Posting online and talking about it do nothing, YOU (via taxes) ARE FUNDING these things you hate! You are as guilty as the ones who directly participate in it!

Without OUR funding, there would be no war in Iraq, there would be no war on drugs! Why do you continue to fund matters you don't agree with? Because you are scared of this same monster throwing you in jail?

Why do concern yourself with matters outside your "illusion of control" when you continue to fund them?

If you pay into the things you hate, hate yourself first, you are to blame, there is no hand washing, you are the problem.

Where do we go today? First, read "Food of The Gods" by Terrence Mckenna. See how the television is the worst drug of all, controlling and manipulating our perception. Timothy Leary was right, and hallucinogenic drugs are banned and some schedule I because they allow us to break free of the lies and brainwashing, you wouldn't know unless you've tried them.

Why are mushrooms in cow shit illegal? Didn't nature give these gifts to us?

Why is marijuana illegal? Why do we allow government, controlled by big Pharma, to control and dictate to us?

Why do we cower in fear and OBEY?

Why are so many of us scared to peacefully stand up and say ENOUGH? Because we might lose time at the computer, game consoles, etc? Because standing up for our rights and liberties which have been stolen from us would deprive us of our enjoyment? "But I have a family..." is not a good excuse, if you do not defend your freedom you do not deserve to live in a land where people went to war and died to protect them.

Anyone who cares about protecting our freedom is labeled a nut or added to a database. This has to STOP. Maybe the image of the dirty street dweller shouldn't return, but damnit, the peace sign and all it embodies should make its way back into the culture, we need to unite, we are divided, and we have already began to fall.

If you do nothing but talk and blog while funding the corrupt system, you are the corruption you hate. Change does not happen by people funding and rewarding a broken and corrupt government.

"All governments are liars and murderers" - Bill Hicks

Vote Wesley Snipes for President : Because both parties are criminal and a part of the problem, send a message like the well known "None of the Above" message from the Brewster's Millions movie.

The system refuses to change, marijuana, cow shit mushrooms, and 1:1 transfer of information puts you in jail. You are nothing but a nipple to be milked for taxes.

You promised unlimited service!!!!!! (0, Troll)

mentaldrano (674767) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532192)

Now you better deliver, or everyone on /. will think nasty thoughts about you for five minutes.

Seriously, that's all. We got nuthin.

Re:You promised unlimited service!!!!!! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532416)

He's not an ISP, so the same rules don't apply.

Also, chances are, QoSing BitTorrent down in that house will probably still let it run close to full speed, as there probably aren't another few hundred people trying to look at YouTube at the same time. Web browsing really dosen't take that much bandwidth.

I use a DLink DLG-4300 (5, Informative)

QX-Mat (460729) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532194)

http://games.dlink.com/products/?pid=370 [dlink.com]

Works well, but is rather expensive. Has an oversized NAT table to help with UDP server pings, so this will remedy and torrent problems you might have with your current setup.

QoS system is fairly flexible with an intuitive GUI and many preconfigured service options.

Has an option to pack the output frames completely (harms XBox Live possibly) as well as delay non-prio packets in favour of VOIP/gaming/as you configure.

Matt

use netlimiter or set up a CC box (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532202)

use a program such as netlimiter - http://www.netlimiter.com/ which is decent enough at doing what it says on the tin for windows boxes or set up a linux gateway such as clarkconnect - http://www.clarkconnect.com/ and implement traffic shaping by application and IP address.

I prefer CC personally but either should work.

Switch to Comcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532204)

Problem solved.

DD-WRT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532226)

Slap on a 3rd party firmware like DD-WRT.

If you a WRT54G then basically you're set. Almost all versions work (even the newer ones with vxware and 2mb flash space).

Under QoS set the max ports higher, and the timeouts for TCP and UDP lower (the newer versions of DD-WRT have a much better setting then the linksys firmware by default)

Also, you can setup the actual QoS. You can do this by app, etc. If it's a wired computer you can also setup QoS by port number on the newer versions of DD-WRT as well. Wireless you'd setup the WMM QoS too (or whatever that feature is call, I forget now lol).

You may also have luck overclocking the CPU under DD-WRT as well. I know I was able to on my one WRT54GS, only bump it from 200 to 212 on a WRT54G v2, and the other WRT54G v2 i had I couldn't at all or it wouldn't boot right.

The other option is grab a WRT150N and use that. They are decently cheap, and the processor is a bit beefer than the WRT54G's.

All in all that should help out. I know the port timeouts in the stock linksys firmware are set so high the router runs out of mem because of the large port maps. That's where the rebooting helps, as it flushs the memory.

All in all, I've been running DD-WRT for the past 2 years give or take, and there's been some hickups with more advanced features (Repeater Bridge mode not working so I was stuck using WDS which really, really slowed the wireless hops), but other than that it works fantastic. Handles torrent clients well while also not causing any issues with my VoIP.

DD-WRT (3, Insightful)

Solandri (704621) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532230)

You may be able to install DD-WRT [dd-wrt.com] on your router. It (along with other alternate firmwares) provides much better traffic shaping capabilities (called QoS for quality of service) than the default firmware. It lets you assign traffic to bulk (lowest), standard, express, premium, and exempt; based on port, MAC address, netmask (destination IP), or traffic type. Off the top of my head I believe the priorities refer to guaranteed 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%, and 100% of packets will get through.

First step would be to find out what type of P2P he's using and (if it's not recognized by DD-WRT) what ports. Drop those down to bulk priority. Raise special activities like https web browsing to express (on the assumption that connecting to an https server means you're doing something important like accessing your bank). Stuff that's time-critical like VoIP and gaming should get premium priority. This took care of 90% of the problems I had.

The remaining 10% proved extremely tricky. Newer bittorrent clients default to encryption on, and it was getting by the QoS. I tried tweaking all sorts of settings to mitigate this without success. What eventually worked was a setting anything on ports higher than 1024 to bulk priority, then specifying certain ports as having higher priority. This is the QoS equivalent of switching from allow all and blocking things you don't want, to deny all and allowing things you do want. That seems to have solved the bittorrent problem.

The only problems that remain have to do with http and ftp transfers of large files. If someone sticks a 40 MB file on a web site, the router can't tell it apart from regular http traffic, so you can't drop its priority without also affecting regular web browsing. In one case a user was running a program to download an entire web site - that was killing the network since to the router it looked just like a lot of web browsing. Same with ftp - if you drop ftp's priority so the 100 MB transfers are bulk, the small ftp files like certain software updates are also bulk.

Linksys and QoS (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532256)

Most of the Linksys routers I've encounter have some quality of service functionality built into them. In my experience QoS is under Applications and Gaming along with port forwarding etc. Any way if you enable it, you'll have several options avaliable for restricting his bandwidth hogging. Be it changing the traffic priority by mac address, protocol, or port.

Hope that helps

Plenty (1)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532258)

There are a bunch of options for open-source firmware that will do traffic-shaping on your router. I personally use Tomato [polarcloud.com] for the AJAXy goodness and overall usability.

You can do limits based on individual devices, which will keep any computer from ever saturating the network, or you can do time-based throttling, or whatever. I found the most useful setup was to make everything default to low priority and then raise the priority of HTTP, SSH, and other things I wanted to run interactively.

As long as nobody on the network is selfish enough to try and run their p2p app over port 80 or something stupid like that, it works fine. But any home router config will depend on the users not trying to get around it -- it's a tool for your mutual convenience, so that people can set their apps to be aggressive and get the most performance, but won't step on others' toes when they're trying to get something done.

Linux can do it for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23532266)

Usually it's the upload being saturated which causes this problem, especially on asymmetric speed links like ADSL.

I use a (Gentoo) Linux box as the gateway for our home network and all traffic must pass through it to reach the net (and vice-versa). Then I can use tc to set up queues on the uplink interface in the outbound direction (part of the iproute suite), and iptables with the CLASSIFY target in the mangle table's FORWARD, OUTPUT, and POSTROUTING tables to prioritise packets accordingly. Queues are set up automatically as part of a custom script on boot.

Without getting into stuff like deep packet inspection or layer-7 packet analysis, in general most of the traffic I find which gums the uplink of the internet connection thus causing everything to feel sluggish is large tcp/udp packets, where file data is being uploaded - interactive traffic like web-browsing or IM/IRC, in general, have smaller packets on the upload side of the connection. So you can classify on packet size, e.g. give priority to packets smaller than 385 bytes, for example, and put everything else in the low-priority queue. Experiment a bit to see what suits your network - max packet size is normally just over 1500 bytes.

Bonus points for creating additional queues, and giving other applications like SSH or VPN other priorities than the basic two in the example above, or even giving certain machines or IP addresses special privileges like faster FTP uploads.

I use Hierarchy Token Buckets and Stochastic Fairness Queueing ('man tc' is a good place to start) so the "middle" priority traffic, whilst allowed to go sooner than otherwise, is still throttled to some extent to not use all the upload anyway, just in case of abuse like tunnelling over HTTP, or other weird cases.

Anyway, I find this setup works nicely for me - P2P is the one that gets hindered when other things want to use the network, otherwise you won't notice the difference.

Plus if you're feeling extra crafty, you're in a position now to install squid on the box, and force-proxy all web traffic on port 80 through it (using iptables to do the redirects transparently) and create centralised adblock filters for the network :D

Your first challenge though, is to rewire your network so you can have a box which all traffic goes through :D

There can be only ONE!!! (2, Funny)

rts008 (812749) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532268)

Nerf guns at 20 paces, last nerd standing wins!

tcpkill ! (1)

alexandre (53) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532306)

dsniff's tcpkill does wonderful things... ;-)

I've needed this for a wile... (1)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532310)

Whenever I'm downloading a file off of BitTorrent that's actually seeded okay and gets to a decent speed, no one else (including me) can use the Internet because it lags the hell out of everything. I have a Linksys WRT54G wireless router and Comcast Internet by the way.

So what's the best way to stop this?

outsource it (1)

nguy (1207026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532314)

Just sign up with Comcast :-)

Traffic Shaping is a preferable solution (1)

Dan Farina (711066) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532326)

I think a lot of the posts that suggest that the right solution is talking to the roommate and potentially some client settings are wrongheaded.

Most people don't care if their P2P download is slowed down a little from HTTP traffic (which is practically in the noise by comparison most of the time, really). In fact, some of those same people would prefer *their* web browsing sessions remain fast while torrenting. The only reason to go for client-side bandwidth throttling or scheduling is because the traffic shaping options can take more expertise and (depending on implementation) may not work ideally -- it is often possible to (sometimes accidentally) abuse many QoS heuristics by, say, spawning a lot of connections.

Traffic shaping (in this case, if effective) will allow you to achieve greater link utilization (they can use 100% of the link when nobody is browsing) and absolve the issue of how one resolves multiple users on the same network wanting to make use of "low-priority" bandwidth. It simply makes life easier, should you be able to set it up.

In any case, the *WRTs (DD-WRT seems to be the easiest) seem to work okay, of course, I'd be interested to hear about other options....

Google for the acronym QOS (1)

pyite69 (463042) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532348)

aka traffic shaping

How to install DD-WRT and set QoS on WRT54G (1)

nka (1295290) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532354)

Hi, how can I set up DD-WRT & QoS on Linksys WRT54G with the latest Tomato Firmware already installed? Thanks! -NKA

It's a good idea to work things out, but... (1)

Ethan Allison (904983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532356)

Even if you come to an agreement about putting in some speed caps, it'd probably be best to set up some sort of QoS. That way, your roommate's downloads are always using up 100% of whatever tube-space is left over after all the other stuff (including whatever he's doing). Maximize efficiency 'n stuff.

A different router? (1)

kupekhaize (220804) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532384)

The cheapest route to go would be the DD-WRT firmware that other people have mentioned, although then you get into some issues that many people want to avoid.

Personally, I was very happy with the DGL-4300 [dlink.com] router from D-Link. It will let you specify QoS settings, and it also lets you prioritize certain games and certain applications, and will also let you be computer specific.

I originally got the router because I was actually hogging my own bandwidth. Before the router, capping my bandwidth via an FTP download or torrent would lag everything else. Now, I prioritized my games and I can maintain a 60 ms ping in an online FPS game while capping out my download at several mbit per second. What really really impressed me was that D-Link has the ports and protocols preprogrammed in for a large variety of games and applications, including bittorent.

Screenshot of the interface [ign.com]

The same thing sounds like it can be done via the DD-WRT firmware, just possibly not quite as elegantly. D-Link also has a new 802.11n GameFuel router (the DGL-4300 I use is 802.11b/g only) but all of the prices I have found on the N router so far have been really, really ridiculously high.

Netpriva perhaps. (1)

ozzee (612196) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532392)

Netpriva [netpriva.com] has an application level shaping solution. They used to have a "free" trial product. The company was a MBO from a company called "foursticks". Give that a try.

pfSense (1)

jamesgor13579 (818611) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532422)

I use pfSense and its QoS tools. I never have problems with my web browsing being affected by my p2p traffic. I have also used smoothwall, which works well also. The downside of these is you have to have a spare computer to install them on, but I have found that the hardware in off the shelf routers isn't powerful enough to properly manage a fast internet connection. Another trick, make sure you do both up and down stream QoS.

DD-WRT vs X-Wrt (2, Interesting)

bitsent (1295282) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532450)

There is some controversy surrounding DD-WRT [bitsum.com] ; you must decide if you want to support them or not. I use OpenWrt with the X-Wrt extension [x-wrt.org] , which also has powerful QoS functionality in a GUI.

pfsense ftw (1)

turing_m (1030530) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532504)

I've had good results with pfsense. Nice GUI, not too hard to set up, shapes traffic well enough that web browsing does not slow down appreciably. Games are tougher though, but I'm not in the same boat as you - if I want to game I just ensure that I'm not downloading anything at the time. I suspect I could have my cake and eat it too, but currently it's too much effort.

I tried smoothwall, m0n0wall, IPCop, and pfsense before settling on pfsense. YMMV.

From memory, I did a google search of slashdot and "traffic shaping" to uncover those options. :)

Tomato (2, Informative)

TheTyrannyOfForcedRe (1186313) | more than 6 years ago | (#23532512)

Grab the Tomato firmware for your Linksys. Tomato's QoS features are much easier to configure than others like DDWRT. With Tomato, you don't need to be a Linux networking guru to do what you want. Tomato also handles P2P very well. You can pound a WRT54 running Tomato with heavy P2P traffic 24/7 for months with no perfmrance problems. No resets required. Grab it here http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato/ [polarcloud.com]
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