Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Large Web Host Urges Customers to Use Gmail

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the conceding-loss dept.

Communications 436

1sockchuck writes "LA hosting company DreamHost, which hosts more than 700,000 web sites, is encouraging its customers to use Google's Gmail for their e-mail, rather than the DreamHost mail servers. DreamHost is continuing to support all its existing e-mail offerings, but said in a blog post that email is "just not something people are looking for from us, and it's something the big free email providers like Yahoo, Microsoft, and Google can do better." DreamHost addresses a question about Google that has vexed many web hosting companies: is Google a useful partner, or a competitor that intends to make "traditional" web hosting companies obsolete? In this case, partnering with Google offers DreamHost a way to offload many of its trouble tickets, reducing the support overhead. Is Google starting to make web hosts less necessary?"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Webmail (5, Interesting)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555033)

For me non-webmail is a thing of the past, I love being able to easily access my mail from any computer anywhere (and I'm on quite a lot of different ones on different places). And GMail is the best of all webmails, so they sure made a good choice!

Re:Webmail (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555063)

Yep, me too.

Re:Webmail (1)

jeiler (1106393) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555095)

Ditto. Gmail has one of the best spam filters around, and the convenience of POP3 or webmail.

Now with Google getting into hosting, competition could rear its ugly head ... but would it? Google is competing with free webhosts such as Geocities, but I really don't see it as competition for paid webhosting ... yet.

Re:Webmail (5, Interesting)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555325)

For me, GMail equals unprofessional. It equals Mom and Pop.

It means you can't even afford to run your own mail server or have someone do it for you.

It means not knowing if the person I'm dealing with is really associated with the domain or the business in question.

It means that my communications are being scanned by a third party, and that I should self-censor accordingly.

It just doesn't reflect well on a person to use GMail for business, in my opinion, and would make me seriously question the credibility of the business.

Re:Webmail (5, Insightful)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555459)

For me, GMail equals unprofessional. It equals Mom and Pop. It means you can't even afford to run your own mail server or have someone do it for you. It means not knowing if the person I'm dealing with is really associated with the domain or the business in question.
Last I checked, you could pay for Gmail and use your own domain name.

Re:Webmail (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555839)

For me, GMail equals unprofessional. It equals Mom and Pop...
Last I checked, you could pay for Gmail and use your own domain name.
Actually it's free for your own domain for the same services as a generic gmail account. You only need to pay for it if you want 24/7 phone support and an obscene amount of HDD space. I host a few dozen websites for clients. I've converted most of them over to gmail using their own domain names. I can even remove the gmail logo so it isn't obvious they're using gmail.

Re:Webmail (5, Interesting)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555467)

gmail doesn't reveal that it is being used - you still manage myemail@mydomain.com; it's not forwarded. I suppose if you inspect full email headers you'll find a google mail server handling the message, but the vast majority of people don't bother.

Still, it's a valid point that people should be considering - when you start using gmail for your business, you're giving them permission to mine your business data.

Re:Webmail (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555533)

True, but gmail could pretty easily set up their servers to accept emails to other domains if those domains were partnered or something. Then you'd just have to set your MX record to point to their IP and log in with your account. I don't think they do this yet, but they do already have business solutions [google.com] that use gmail so I wouldn't count it out.

Re:Webmail (3, Informative)

mark_hill97 (897586) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555611)

They already do that, and its quite easy to set up. You just have to set the mx records and place a file in the root of the server to authenticate that you are the one controlling the server

Re:Webmail (5, Insightful)

jafuser (112236) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555593)

It means that my communications are being scanned by a third party, and that I should self-censor accordingly.
If your mail passes through the USA, this is unavoidable.

Re:Webmail (5, Insightful)

ibmjones (52133) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555645)

It means that my communications are being scanned by a third party, and that I should self-censor accordingly.

Most email are sent plain-text, so it doesn't take much effort to scan the contents. That is why you use PGP. :)

Re:Webmail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555653)

I can see some of that. I think it's kind of old school though.


To me, it means the company knows what they do well and what they don't do well and they are interested in focusing on their core competency and deliver a better grade of service at that than and trying to deliver what they don't do well.


Would you rather have an ISP provide you with half-assed email?

Re:Webmail (3, Interesting)

dk.r*nger (460754) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555667)

It means you can't even afford to run your own mail server or have someone do it for you.
Yeah, or that I know that my business is not running emailservers, and my time is better spend doing other stuff...

This might matter in the "we run Exchange-server because we're ENTERPRISE and important"-segment, but in the "getting shit done" segment, GMail is very very very good value for money ($0 or $50/user/year for the ENTERPRISE-woo-we're-important-plan).

Oh, and you do know that you can use your own domain on GMail, completely transparently, right?

Re:Webmail (1)

NeoSkandranon (515696) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555715)

It means that my communications are being scanned by a third party, and that I should self-censor accordingly.

What gives you the impression that any other web host wouldn't also be doing this? Do you self censor when sending through any system that does spam detection? They're "scanning" your messages too you know.

Re:Webmail (1, Insightful)

jeiler (1106393) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555765)

For me, GMail equals unprofessional. It equals Mom and Pop.

For a business? Absolutely, although it doesn't to some people. But for a home account or hobby account? Not so much.

Re:Webmail (1)

allscan (1030606) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555837)

You can use Google for you domain for free, you just don't get unlimited users.

Re:Webmail (1)

superbus1929 (1069292) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555849)

Yes, but you can also use Google Apps, which means everything goes through Google - your MX records, etc. - but you keep your domain.

I use two different domains for email through Dreamhost. My primary domain has it's email set up through Dreamhost, meaning I use their MX records and my webmail is the default SquirrelMail, and my other domain - one that relies on better interaction with my members - has a Google Apps backdrop. They both serve me well, and it should be noted that I bring both of them in through a client (Thunderbird).

Re:Webmail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555853)

"It means that my communications are being scanned by a third party, and that I should self-censor accordingly."

Are you doing the same for the NSA?

Re:Webmail (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555123)

me too

Re:Webmail (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555155)

Right, an opening a SSH connection to launch `mutt` or `pine` is really a thing of the past (?). I can access my mail from anywhere too and hey, I even filter the mail with whatever tool I want to ...

Re:Webmail (1)

telbij (465356) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555263)

Sorry, web browsers are more widely available than ssh terminals, you fail it.

Re:Webmail (2, Insightful)

xSauronx (608805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555301)

to be fair throwing putty and your keys on a usb key *isnt* that big of a deal. but i really dont want to do email browsing in a cli, thanks.

Not just webmail (5, Informative)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555217)

For me non-webmail is a thing of the past, I love being able to easily access my mail from any computer anywhere (and I'm on quite a lot of different ones on different places). And GMail is the best of all webmails, so they sure made a good choice!

For those who want a bit more than simply webmail, there is also the SMTP and IMAP interfaces offered by GMail.

WHAT'S THE DEAL (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555339)

Okay, what's the deal with the new popup ads here? It's annoying, and unnecessary, eventhough Opera blocks them.

I was quite okay with the regular ads here. A picture now and then I don't mind seeing, and sometimes even clicked them if I thought they were interresting. Started blocking ads when the video ads started appearing, so that was kind of a bad move, because with the block, it automatically also blocked the stationary ads, and can't make any money on what you don't see. Now it's getting even more annoying with the popups. Kill that shit slashdot. Why the fuck do you guys think that we slashdotters always complain about not linking an article to the print page? Hint: It's not because we like ads and popups and shit. You're alienating your own viewers here!!

Why, slashdot! You're better than that!

Re:WHAT'S THE DEAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555623)

hahahaha... been watching much porn? or going to software crack sites? cause YOU GOT A VIRUS SUCKER! perhaps you should dump windows and use something more secure

Re:Webmail (4, Informative)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555351)

Use the correct tool for the job. Google makes for a wonderful mail host. You can still have your name@company.com address through their mail servers while gaining access to their superior spam-filtering and fantastic uptime.

There will always be a need for web hosters, though a different niche may need to be found. For example, not ever host offers PHP, or Python, or fill-in-name-of-technology and that is where the hosters can differentiate themselves from the free providers like Google, geocities.

From previous experience, e-mail seems to be the red-headed step-child in the service package that a web host offers.

Re:Webmail (2, Interesting)

elventear (868128) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555607)

My concern is that email would, for some reason or another take all my information hostage. What kind of accountability would Google offer for a free service, in contrast to the one offered by Dreamhost?

Re:Webmail (1)

Pascal Sartoretti (454385) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555637)

I love being able to easily access my mail from any computer anywhere

You forgot to mention "anywhere where I have an internet connection". This is why I still prefer a classic e-mail client.

Re:Webmail (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555761)

Heck, I'm not even a business, and I prefer to run my own mail servers, thanks. I have full control over what comes to them, how I'm authenticated for smtp, etc. If I need a web interface, there's squirrelmail (I haven't had to do this yet, however, since I can do imaps and authenticated smtp with tls, or even pine over an ssh session, if necessary).

I realize this is not for everybody, but for my own use, I can do it better than gmail (mimedefang, milter-greylist, aliases, procmail, spamassassin...all configured exacly how I want.). Flexibility is a great thing, and it pretty much runs itself.

Now if only blackberry BIS would properly implement IMAP.

Re:Webmail (1)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555855)

I use Dreamhost and their email is accessible by webmail if desired. They use http://www.squirrelmail.org/ [squirrelmail.org] squirrelmail. It's automatically set up at mail.yourdomain.com at works fairly well. They have a support wiki set up with their email and webmail config, with details on a bunch of different email clients. My customers I've set up with it like the flexibility of having both a desktop email client at the office and access to the webmail portion when they're away (One of my big customers is a used car dealership, so they're often off at auctions and whatnot).

Very unprofessional move (1, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555061)

Dreamhost contends that "almost nobody CHOOSES a web host based on their email features." That may be true, but that's just because a robust email service is EXPECTED. If I've spent money to pay a provider to host my "acme.com" webpage every month, I damn sure expect that I will be able to make "headhoncho@acme.com" my official email address and my business card (and get reliable service out of it). The idea that I'm going to be content putting "headhoncho_acme6@gmail.com" on my business card instead is laughable.

If Dreamhost doesn't want to include email with their web hosting accounts (and it looks like this is the first step towards phasing it out), then they need to get out of the web hosting business. They obviously don't have the kind of professionalism that it takes to run a web hosting company (as further evidenced by making glib comments referring to "studly CEO's" in an official blog).

Re:Very unprofessional move (5, Informative)

HansF (700676) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555097)

Using google apps for your domain [google.com] enables you to use your headhoncho@acme.com... they just take your mx record and handle your mail.

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555303)

Any bets google will soon be offering free web hosting?

I wonder if DreamHost will then throw its hands in the air and surrender when they do like they're doing now for email.

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555491)

Hell, I'll be happy when google starts offering paid hosting: it's probably the only provider in the world for which I have 0 uptime and load balancing concerns.

Re:Very unprofessional move (3, Informative)

joelstobart (1238490) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555661)

They have released a limited trial of application hosting. Only python at the moment - its called the Google App Engine [blogspot.com] and its like a free (for limited use) version of Amazon's EC2 Cloud.

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555829)

Not quite what I had in mind - but worth checking out all the same, thanks for the link.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555627)

Any bets google will soon be offering free web hosting?
They already [google.com] do [google.com] .

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555683)

that's geocities, not 'hosting'.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555129)

Hold on, this doesn't stop anybody registering a domain like "acme.com" and forwarding all email directed to "headhoncho@acme.com" to 123xyzgmailisgreat@gmail.com. A good registrar would allow that.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555145)

[...] I damn sure expect that I will be able to make "headhoncho@acme.com" my official email address and my business card (and get reliable service out of it).[...]
And what exactly does this have to do with TFA?
Smtp relay anyone?

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

phoenixwade (997892) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555523)

[...] I damn sure expect that I will be able to make "headhoncho@acme.com" my official email address and my business card (and get reliable service out of it).[...]
And what exactly does this have to do with TFA?
Smtp relay anyone?
You must be new here...
Why would you ask a RTFA question?

However, to answer, it pertains to the relevance of using gMail as an email service separate from your webHosting service... Or, to decode for you, it's a discussion as to whether or not DreamHosts email commentary is a good idea for businesses, or at all. In other words, I quite germane to TFA.

Very professional move (5, Informative)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555191)


The idea that I'm going to be content putting "headhoncho_acme6@gmail.com" on my business card instead is laughable.

Who said anything about gmail.com? Google also provides DOMAIN based hosting of your email. i.e. headhoncho@acme.com can go to Google's servers.

If Dreamhost doesn't want to include email with their web hosting accounts (and it looks like this is the first step towards phasing it out), then they need to get out of the web hosting business

I very much disagree. Web hosting and email hosting have very little to do with each other. They both involve the internet, but beyond that, there's little crossover. Why not let each provider provide what they can do best? I don't eat at gas stations, even though driving across country often involves feeding myself as well as my car. Why should my website host try to also provide poor email?

Re:Very professional move (1)

shawn(at)fsu (447153) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555447)

I agree and this shouldn't come as a surprise right? I mean thats the way everything seems to be going. You contract out what isn't your specialty. Because if it's not your specialty it could very well be costing you more to do it yourself. That's how we have all these IT outsourcing companies.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555207)

Google host the email but you have to user your own domain and not gmail.com

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555283)

Maybe the article should be titled
"Large Web Host Urges Customers to Use Google Apps"

Nonetheless if you RTFA it's clear:

Did somebody say.. Google? In fact, as youâ(TM)ve maybe already seen, we recently made it very easy to use Gmail for all your email hosting with us, still at your own domain!

(Emphasis NOT mine)

Re:Very unprofessional move (4, Informative)

MaxInBxl (961814) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555321)

Well you can simply configure your host to forward your "me@acme.com" mails to "me@gmail.com" automatically. It is then trivial to set Gmail up so that incoming mails sent to "me@acme.com" are replied with "me@acme.com" as a reply-to address.

I use this for several of my domains. The clear advantage for me is that I can use the Gmail interface which I've known and used for years now. Every hosting provider has their own brew of online mail and I've yet to find one that can compete with Gmail.

This is starting to sound like a fan boy post, but another sizable advantage of using Gmail (or hotmail or yahoo-mail etc.) is that your current ISP probably does not have global coverage. So when you move to France next year and have to use neuf.fr as your provider your old e-mail address and messages will not follow you. However you can check your hotmail / Gmail / yahoo for free, no matter where you live and no matter who your ISP is.

However, on a professional front, I personally don't think it is a good move for the simple reason that people hang on to ISPs despite better competition only because they've been "using the same [IS provided]e-mail for years now".

Just my 2 cents

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555345)

Obviously they are referring to hosting your own email with gmail.

You setup the account with gmail, set the DNS records and webmail.acme.com (or whatever you use) and magically mail sent to foo@acme.com ends up in that gmail interface.

Surprise, surprise, a company in that business making that suggestions knows slightly more than you do about what google offers.

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

Metasquares (555685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555355)

I concur. I've had an account with Dreamhost for the past 5 years and the minute they nix their own POP/IMAP email service is the minute I find another host.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555391)

You are very misinformed elrous0. I have used DreamHost for a long, long time and noticed that the gmail option popped up recently. Just to clarify this has NOTHING to do with getting an @gmail address! You can use gmail with YOUR OWN e-mail address and to access your e-mail you even get the option to use webmail.yourdomain.com instead of gmail as well.

It's in fact a very nice and convenient service which many customers will enjoy. Personally I like the traditional dreamhost mail options and will not make the change but there the way you can use gmail is not like you describe.

Re:Very unprofessional move (2, Informative)

DerekLyons (302214) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555401)

They [Dreamhost] obviously don't have the kind of professionalism that it takes to run a web hosting company (as further evidenced by making glib comments referring to "studly CEO's" in an official blog).

(Chuckle.) I love it when a Slashdot stereotype shatters... I mean, usually the complaint is that most companies are bland and sterile soul sucking Dilbertesque hells... And here we have a complaint because a company isn't!
 
Now, obviously not everyone is going to be happy with a given company - someones always going to be upset. (And here in the 'net age the squeaky wheels of course get all the attention.) But I've been a Dreamhost customer for over eight years - and I've had nothing but good experiences.

Re:Very unprofessional move (5, Interesting)

mrboyd (1211932) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555431)

No one is asking you to use the gmail.com domain for your professional emails.

Google App is a free mail hosting for companies domain (up to 100 email) using their gmail technology. And yes you can replace the gmail logo with your company logo and choose your favorite colors.

I recently decided to get rid of our internally hosted and managed email server to use google free services and as a part time sysadmin I am delighted. It hassle free. Took all of five minutes to set-up including sending an email to my ISP asking them to redirect our MX server.

It gives our employees POP, IMAP and a state of the art Web access and it runs on a distributed server farm with 99.99999% reliability. My boss is paying $0 for it and is very happy about that.

I didn't even bother looking into the other features but apparently we also have our own company branded google calendar, google chat, google docs and google sites.

There currently isn't any interesting "Google App Engine" based application but from the look of the admin dashboard it seems that I will be able to add the one I like to my domain. If the Google App Engine picks up that will mean free company branded - server farm hosted - applications like forum, image gallery and even maybe CRM application...

An small to medium sized company would be really stupid not to take advantage of that kind of offer and dreamhost advice is actually making sense. Want to host your own PHP pages? use DreamHost. Want a professionally run email server? Go see google/hotmail/yahoo.

From a business standpoint it makes a lot of sense. Running an email server is a much more complicated matter than stacking a few servers together and providing AC, UPS, fire extinguisher and fat pipes. I am pretty sure it provides them and their customers with little added value for the cost of running it. Especially with the current barely manageable spam levels.

Re:Very unprofessional move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555535)

The non-profit I work for has hosted with Dreamhost for years, and by far the worst aspect of their wanky, buggy hosting is their email servers. They go down multiple times a day--some times every day for weeks. It's maddening. Our primary web designer has been encouraging us to shift our mail hosting to Gmail anyway--and this just makes it all the much easier. Now I just need to convince the guy who does our network support to relax a bit on his drive to have us serve our mail locally using Exchange and everything will be hunky dory.

Considering that a lot of Dreamhost sites seem to be maintained by relative novices, I believe they're actually doing their customers a favor by making it easy to use Gmail. They only thing they're not exactly saying clearly is "since our mail servers are really, really bad, you're better off not using us..."

Re:Very unprofessional move (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555655)

Dreamhost contends that "almost nobody CHOOSES a web host based on their email features." That may be true, but that's just because a robust email service is EXPECTED. If I've spent money to pay a provider to host my "acme.com" webpage every month, I damn sure expect that I will be able to make "headhoncho@acme.com" my official email address and my business card (and get reliable service out of it). The idea that I'm going to be content putting "headhoncho_acme6@gmail.com" on my business card instead is laughable.
I know you're going to get eveleventy-billion responses pointing this out, but it needs to be said - you don't need to have an @gmail.com address to use Google's mail system. Google provides it apps for your domain. You can get mail, calendaring, chat, docs, all of it at whatever.acme.com We've got a couple clients we've set up with Google's domain apps specifically because they can offer a better service than we can.

If Dreamhost doesn't want to include email with their web hosting accounts (and it looks like this is the first step towards phasing it out), then they need to get out of the web hosting business.
It may, or may not, be the first step in phasing out email hosting - the article really makes no mention of that either way. But even if it is, why would they get out of web hosting? There are plenty of people out there who simply want a website with no email at all. I know this for a fact because we've got some of them as clients. They could easily drop email entirely from their most basic plans and offer it as an option for the folks who really don't want to go with some other company (like Google).

They obviously don't have the kind of professionalism that it takes to run a web hosting company (as further evidenced by making glib comments referring to "studly CEO's" in an official blog).
It's called "humor". If you take a look around at other official blogs you'll see other examples.

STREWTH (3, Interesting)

Kamineko (851857) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555075)

Strewth! I use Dreamhost for my hosting, and their uptime is a bit pants. (There's many websites dedicated to how terrible DH is. Many, many websites.)

This announcement just makes them seem wonderfully credible, don't you think?

Are there any good, big hosts located in the UK?

Re:STREWTH (1)

youthoftoday (975074) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555387)

I'm happy with Site5. It's in the US but the latency beats my previous (London) host.

Re:STREWTH (1)

morgdx (688154) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555745)

I second that, they host the website for my OS project very well http://jfin.org/ [jfin.org] and are pretty good value for money.

Re:STREWTH (2, Interesting)

WK2 (1072560) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555485)

I'm really happy with nearlyfreespeech.net. It's not in the UK, though.

Re:STREWTH (2, Interesting)

telbij (465356) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555551)

(There's many websites dedicated to how terrible DH is. Many, many websites.)


The vast majority of which are written by ignorant script kiddies who think that for $10/month they should be allowed to utilize unlimited resources and slow down the server for everyone else on it. So they make a big stink about it publicly then go to some other shared host where they inevitably make life miserable for 50 other customers on whatever server they get assigned to (I've been on the receiving end of this and it's not cool).

I've had an account with Dreamhost for 8 years, and during that time I've also had accounts or worked with companies hosted on dozens of other hosts. My anecdotal evidence is strong. As far as cheaped shared web hosts go, Dreamhost is one of the best. Certainly many people get lucky with other hosts, but most hosting companies have not had to deal with the technical issues that Dreamhost has overcome over the years.

That said, I never recommend shared hosting anyway. VPS technology (especially Xen) is the only way to guarantee good QoS as websites become increasingly dynamic.

I just prefer... (4, Insightful)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555077)

I just prefer to set up and run my own email server from home.

That way, I can handle spam they way I want, set up accounts for friends if need be (or businesses)

At the very least..."I" know who is storing and reading my mail. Me, not some corporation that holds it, reads it to display ads....and turns it over to the govt. at the govt's whim.

Re:I just prefer... (3, Insightful)

jeiler (1106393) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555121)

You can stop the storage company from turning things over to the govt by removing the company from the equation ... but how do you stop the transiting ISPs from turning things over?

Re:I just prefer... (2, Interesting)

mortonda (5175) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555357)

Transiting ISPS would have to snif traffic to catch my email, which is doable but a large task. My email server also has TLS available, and a lot of sites actually do use it... which makes it unsniffable.

Re:I just prefer... (2, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555367)

Use encryption opportunistically, that helps, any comms between known hosts in your web of trust are then impenetrable to anyone but you.

Re:I just prefer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555381)

At least I know my ISP isn't required to obey some PATRIOT act and what not...

Re:I just prefer... (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555305)

Ditto, I have a small, low power box with my own setup.

I have control over the whole thing and nobody gets my data.

Re:I just prefer... (1)

guilheb (913470) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555747)

I used to host my own mail but I would stress out everytime power would go out, or if I moved to a new place and took 1-2 days to get back Internet access.

For home consumers, yes (1)

rodrigoandrade (713371) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555107)

For home consumers, yes. But I've yet to know a serious organization that outsourced its email needs to Gmail, Hotmail, etc. Integration with other systems (Lotus Notes), privacy concerns are just a couple hurdles the free webmail services will have to get past before being widely accepted in corporations.

Re:For home consumers, yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555273)

I've yet to know a serious organization that outsourced its email needs to Gmail, Hotmail, etc.

Google did :)

Re:For home consumers, yes (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555555)

Possibly not - when I was interviewing there, the recruiters had "@google.com" and not "@gmail.com"...

Re:For home consumers, yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555649)

The University of Virignia is in the process of outsourcing all student email to gmail/hotmail (students make the choice). Employee email is in house so far.

We switched to gmail. (5, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555139)

My company switched to useing gmail. Primarly because it is too expensive to keep our mail server running smoothly. The mail server is one of the most volnerable parts on your network, Linux/Unix or not it is a huge security risk. And it needs to be kept up todate constently, Reconfigured spam filters... For a company mail server is very expensive. And if gmail is willing to do this for Free even though we get adds, we end up with a better email service for less costs. We switched and we are getting less Spam, out internet connection speed is better (slightly). And we are getting mail more relabably.
The employees can check their mail remotly. Management is happy they are not getting killed with Spam, and the office can be left uninteded and locked up for Weeks.

Re:We switched to gmail. (0)

alexo (9335) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555541)

My company switched to useing gmail.

For your sake, I hope your company doesn't have any trade secrets.

Re:We switched to gmail. (1)

harry666t (1062422) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555719)

> > My company switched to useing gmail.

> For your sake, I hope your company doesn't have any trade secrets.

Or spelling nazis.

Re:We switched to gmail. (1)

dk.r*nger (460754) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555737)

For your sake, I hope your company doesn't have any trade secrets.
For your sake, I hope your company has measures in place so you don't need to ship trade-secrets around via e-mail.

Re:We switched to gmail. (5, Insightful)

Snocone (158524) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555811)

For your sake, I hope your company doesn't have any trade secrets.

For your sake, I hope you're not stupid enough to think that your company's trade secrets are safe in email that doesn't go through gmail...

I'm a Dreamhost customer (4, Interesting)

jalefkowit (101585) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555167)

... and if they require me to pipe my mail through Google, I'll take my business somewhere that doesn't.

Shunt 60% of your bandwidth to Google... (1)

Electrawn (321224) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555173)

... to save on bandwidth costs and spam appliances.Sound business strategy and relieves your email headaches! Until Google gets serious into the webhost business and you just gave them a list of all your customers. Or Googles spam filters start throwing your invoices into the spam folder. GENIUS!

This is why companies never do joint ventures unless forced.

We've seen the opposite (1)

teknopurge (199509) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555209)

We've had more clients sign up with us looking for what they usually call "real" email then anything else in the past 6 months or so. Though we focus on businesses and most clients require some kind of complex hosting solution, a number of small businesses have signed up looking for something other then their current provider, usually either comcast, yahoo or gmail.

I can think of many reasons for Dreamhost to do this, as providing good email service can be difficult, especially with the spammers and various providers implementing their own "standards". I could see SH doing this just to get that monkey off their back...

Regards,

Maybe if they concentrated more on (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555221)

less massive overselling of their servers for pennies per month, their servers could handle the load properly with out suggesting to the customer that they unload their email service to Google Hosted.

Re:Maybe if they concentrated more on (1)

teknopurge (199509) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555285)

I think you said a ton and didn't even realize it. It makes sense that the next step to overselling is to "streamline" current overhead. This move will only save DH money and increase their profit, for the time being.

Duplicate effort (1)

jsnipy (913480) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555237)

Unless you have an absolute and utter need to stamp out any risk of peering, there is not much need to undertake the effort to do spam filters, maintaining a server, and using bandwidth. With free spop and google apps to use you own domain name, no much convinces me to use anything else

Mailtrust (1)

kurtmckee (870398) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555241)

I pay for and highly recommend Mailtrust [mailtrust.com] . They've treated me very well.

First, do no harm (to another's marketplace) (4, Interesting)

NetSettler (460623) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555277)

partnering with Google offers DreamHost a way to offload many of its trouble tickets, reducing the support overhead. Is Google starting to make web hosts less necessary?

One of the things I don't like about free software is that it basically pays for itself off the profits of an unrelated industry, eliminating competition in an otherwise viable industry because someone can afford to offer the service for free as a loss leader to other business.

A thing that is especially troublesome is that not only does it basically make it so that no one can afford to be in the business area (software development for money) competing with the free thing (software given away for nothing), but also no one can afford not to use the free thing because the cost of the luxury of buying an alternative brand will be exposed by the market as superfluous if passed along to end users.

It seems to me that if this becomes a trend, it will be the effective continuation of that paradigm shift by Google into another area, and that the logical continuation of this, by analogy, would be that not only can no one afford to compete with Google and other agencies giving away free mail but no one will be able to afford not to use Google's mail.

That would be sad if it turns out that there are reasons why using Google's mail is not a good idea... such as, for example, concerns about privacy.

If Google becomes the standard of mail, the problem is that it can afford to add incidental services in parity with any nuisance it causes, making it impossible for would-be competitors to match on a value-point by value-point basis even if they find a way that should theoretically be able to compete.

Re:First, do no harm (to another's marketplace) (1)

WK2 (1072560) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555609)

There are hundreds, maybe even thousands of email services. Most of them are free, but you can pay if you want. There is no threat of Gmail being the only email provider in the foreseeable future.

Re:First, do no harm (to another's marketplace) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555795)

I'm curious which free software has eliminated all competition in its niche? People still pay for web servers, C compilers, and operating systems. Perhaps web browsers. Anything else significant?

And so it begins. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555293)

When big hosters can't stem the spam avalanche anymore and refer their users to someone else, the message is clear: Email is dying.

And the Big Brother dream comes true (1)

Janos421 (1136335) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555307)

Remember all the discussion about Gmail privacy policy? The main argument of Gmail defenders was "If you don't like it, don't use it". Now that Gmail is widely adopted it seems that you'll have to use it whether you like it or not. GoodBye privacy...
By the way, if you don't like Google Health privacy policy, don't use it...

it's all about the SPAM... (5, Insightful)

timjones (78467) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555327)

I'm a very small webhost provider (< 20 domains), and for me, it was a no brainer to get all my customers to get GMail for Domains, point all their MX records to Google, and wash my hands of the SPAM. I use it for all my personal domains as well. Google does a far better job of SPAM filtering than I ever could with SpamAssassin and the blacklists thing... and for this small set of users (< 50 people total), it just wasn't worth it. My tech life got a lot easier when I decided I wasn't going to mess with email anymore, just like the day I decided I was going to ignore Microsoft's APIs. Both are losing propositions in the extreme. So, for me, Google is a VERY useful partner. And I like their web/chat interface too, both the browser version and the mobile edition, which I access from my Treo 650.

free hosting of my domain and its services? sure.. (1)

coreconcern (891742) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555341)

other than the potential privacy issues that could come up with some people i really had no qualms moving my home-hosted services over to google. they've got more bandwidth than even my business class cable could offer, and their apps aren't that bad. for a small company or a personal domain i don't see anything wrong with having a free option. i think that it indeed encroaches on hosting companies. for some small shops this is their bread and butter. google is giving it away free. something i hadn't seen another company offer until them. is any other companies offering anything similar now?

Natural move (1)

cephah (1244770) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555383)

In an industry with as much competition as the web hosting companies experience it's natural to specialize in doing one thing, and doing it good. If they feel they're unable to provide an adequate mail service I'd much rather have them blankly admit it and recommend someone who specializes in that department. My trust in this company has just gone up a notch.

Dreamhost is incorrect. (2, Informative)

snarfies (115214) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555421)

1) I have run websites for three different local anime clubs over the years. In all cases I wanted a webhost that had pre-installed mailing list software (mailman preferred, but I'd go for whatever). A lot of webhosts may or may not offer mailing lists, they don't specify - that also means they lose, do not want.

2) I said this before in a largely-unrelated story, but I'll say it again here because its relevant: I own otakubell.com, and its primary purpose (nowadays) is email. Its my server, its my domain (registered through an independent registrar, not tied to the hosting). I don't have to worry about Yahoo or Google suffering a security breach. I don't have to worry about them mining my email for advertising data. And I certainly have a hell of a lot less spam (my Yahoo email account gets HUNDREDS of spam messages every week). If the webhost screws up, I can point my domain elsewhere (hit upon routhost a few years ago, have been quite satisfied). You, on the other hand, are stuck if Google or Yahoo screw up.

Dreamhost Support? (1)

vvaduva (859950) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555469)

So they are trying to kill two birds with one stone? Offload their email traffic to someone else and suck less with their support? Sounds like a good business plan...it doesn't mean it will necessarily work.

the problem is spam (1)

Dr. Tom (23206) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555477)

The main cause of those trouble tickets is spam. If spam didn't exist email would be cake to do. As it is, spam is difficult to deal with, and the larger, more central sites can do a much more effective job of dealing with it. Of course some people prefer to deal with it themselves. Do you?

Is Google starting to make web hosts unnecessary? (1)

xoundmind (932373) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555495)

(Thank God) I am no longer in the web development world and have moved on to more stable/interesting work, but... This would seem to depend on how many small/medium scale web shops are still out there. Ones that don't actually host, but tend to push their customers to a single/reliable hosting source for AMP setups. I don't see cloud computing cutting into that market arrangement in the near future, but let's hear from some folks who are slogging away in that end of the biz....It seems like they would know.

One step closer to replacement (1)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555497)

I hate email and seeing ISPs phasing out email in favor of larger corporate solutions always brings me closer to the edge of my seat for the day when email is replaced by a superior service. Google's offering millions to the first commercial space flight. Why not offer a reward for something practical like a replacement email protocol? I don't care if it lacks backwards compatibility. I just want to see the days of spam end and the days when the food product is the first thing that comes to mind when 'spam' is mentioned. I'm sure Hormel would love that day as well.

Could this have anything to do with.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555601)

About two months ago, one of their email servers (Blingy) started having problems. Email (at least imap) was completely down, and they sid they would have it back up within a day or so.

That day lasted two weeks. Technically the email was back up before that but barely accessible during working hours for the whole time.

See...

http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2008/03/27/filer-problems-with-blingy-cluster/

I agree with both sides! (1)

certain death (947081) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555663)

I ran an ISP for several years, and now I run a hosting company. We provide email via Zimbra on Grid based servers. Using the grid has eliminated hardware bottlenecks and using Zimbra has eliminated issues with email. When I owned the ISP email was the bane of our existence. If the server went down, EVERYONE screamed like little gurlz yelling about how they depended on our free email to do business. My infamous quote was...if you depend on email to do business, you need a business class email server, not some free add on provided by your hosting company or ISP.

Playing with fire (5, Interesting)

AppyPappy (64817) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555717)

I set up my wife with a free email account which she used for sending emails to Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc. After a few years, they canceled her account for spamming. I thought I would never hear the end of that. She still brings it up.

If you have a free account, don't expect a whole pile of customer support. If they decide to cancel some VP's account, it just sucks to be you.

Should have partnered... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23555835)

I think they would have been wise to partner with Google and transparently offer GMail as their bundled email service. That would have made this easier and more transparent to the customer (even if they knew they were using GMail.)

Dreamhost is $7.95/month for UNLIMITED domains (1)

sputnikid (191152) | more than 6 years ago | (#23555843)

I have a Dreamhost account and I pay $7.95 a month.

With that I have the ability to host as many domains as I want and get a TON of bandwidth (4TB/month) to use and a huge amount of disk space (250 GB). I don't use their email servers as I have little use for them (I have used gmail all along).

If one is that concerned about their email service they are more than welcome to go elsewhere and leave Dreamhost for the majority that don't care about email hosting.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?