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Microsoft Free, One Year Later

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the year-of-linux-on-the-desktop dept.

Microsoft 539

madgreek writes "Last year I wrote of my switch from XP to Ubuntu at work. Now a year later, I am back to reflect on one year of being extremely productive at work using (almost) nothing but open source software in a Microsoft world."

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Linux has been business-desktop ready for years. (5, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647891)

I'm sure that many people will point at his failures (IE6 for some activeX websites & visio) as proof that linux is still not ready for the desktop. But these apps aren't available for the Mac either & few are suggesting OS X is not ready for the desktop.

Unfortunately, what's preventing business's adopting Linux or OS X is the fact that the various 'solution providers' & VARs make more money reselling Microsoft products.

Linux Visio Clone. (4, Informative)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647895)

Linux has a Visio Clone: Kvivio. Import the Cisco Symbols from DIA and you are all set.

Re:Linux Visio Clone. (4, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648003)

Linux has a Visio Clone: Kvivi

The article was talking about interoperating with .vsd files. Unfortunately, neither Kvivio nor Dia can do that (not last time I needed it anyway).

Import the Cisco Symbols from DIA.

Why not just say "Linux has a Visio Clone: Dia"

Re:Linux Visio Clone. (5, Funny)

mebrahim (1247876) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648459)

KDE vs. Gnome, Terminal vs. GUI, Vi vs. Emacs, ... and now Kivio vs. Dia! Nice!

Re:Linux Visio Clone. (4, Informative)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648189)

Linux has a Visio Clone: Kvivio.
Don't you mean Kivio? [koffice.org] ?

I use Koffice quite often, and Kivio is one of my favorite apps in there.

Re:Linux Visio Clone. (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648247)

Visio is a very powerful application, well at least it has a lot of features. I am not aware of any fair clone of it in Linux. I suspect part of the reason is that there isn't enough demand yet, and partly because those who can don't want to create what could be considered to be quite a bloated application.

Re:Linux Visio Clone. (2, Informative)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648329)

I suspect part of the reason is that there isn't enough demand yet


No, there are FOSS alternatives that approach Visio functionality, so there's obviously demand.


This is another example of Microsoft's ubiquitous format lockin.


There are projects to reverse-engineer [freshmeat.net] the VSD/VSS file formats, but it's complicated, and there are a number of closed sub-formats being used as well.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (5, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648017)

I find Linux more capable on the Desktop than Microsoft. There are often times when MS's (using XP) internal burning software is inadequate - like burning images. I don't know if it's fixed yet, but for a long time XP just would not burn an image with its built in software and you had to use something like Nero. Never had a problem burning an image running any linux distro. Same with mounting .iso right from the harddrive as a cd-rom. It usually required some pay-for software (Alcohol 120%) in Windows, while a 2 minute search yield a few command lines to do it in Ubuntu. I know I'd rather save the money.

A typical mainstream Linux distro is ready. It's often superior in many ways to MS, as MS seems to deliberately makes their OS do almost nothing useful beyond the basics it seems (or was it that Monopoly ruling that caused this?) It's now just 3rd party apps for most people. Web Browsing has reversed itself (there are enough people who wouldn't switch from Firefox due to plug-ins they can't get in IE).

On the Corporate Level, solution providers are slow to change if they're an MS only shop. I even know the university/college level has problems. Blackboard and other such garbage.

I suspect the oncoming economic shitstorm may finally get corporations to really tighten their belts and that company-wide OS licenses may just not fit in the budget anymore looking ahead 5 years in some places. I just hope the current/next generation of purchase managers learns from the past and looks to do away with vendor lock-in in so many areas as much as possible.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (5, Informative)

jfim (1167051) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648059)

I find Linux more capable on the Desktop than Microsoft. There are often times when MS's (using XP) internal burning software is inadequate - like burning images. I don't know if it's fixed yet, but for a long time XP just would not burn an image with its built in software and you had to use something like Nero. Never had a problem burning an image running any linux distro. Same with mounting .iso right from the harddrive as a cd-rom. It usually required some pay-for software (Alcohol 120%) in Windows, while a 2 minute search yield a few command lines to do it in Ubuntu. I know I'd rather save the money.

A two minute search on Google yields CDBurnerXP [cdburnerxp.se] as a freeware CD burning tool and Daemon tools [daemon-tools.cc] as an image mounting tool for Windows.

It might not be free as in speech, but it sure is free as in beer.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648089)

MagicDisc [magiciso.com] is another great free image mounting tool for Windows.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (5, Interesting)

jay-be-em (664602) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648115)

Personally I'm very wary of installing random non-open-source apps on my desktop. I feel a lot better about something that is in the main Debian repository and more or less gpl compatible.

Hell, check out that daemon tools page you linked:

"Dear DAEMON Community,

it come to our attention that someone released a fake DT PRO version that is
contaminated with trojans and viruses, among the fact it is only a DT Lite and
not a PRO version!

We cant underscore enough how important it is that you always download from our
official sites and affiliates!

Nowadays, and with the popularity of DAEMON Tools, it is not unusual to see such
attempts to harm others (and, after all, also our reputation).
Rest assured: we double-check all uploads to our official sites and frequently check
them further to make sure you get no harmfull viruses/trojans!"

Frankly just googling and then downloading stuff that looks like it could help is bound to lead to a malware infested computer. One of the very clear things that good Linux distros have over Windows is the use of a centralized software repository.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (4, Insightful)

jfim (1167051) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648351)

it come to our attention that someone released a fake DT PRO version that is contaminated with trojans and viruses, among the fact it is only a DT Lite and not a PRO version!

DT Pro is the version that you have to pay for, thus getting it for free from some shady website should at least make you think twice, in the same way that you probably shouldn't download kernel sources from untrusted websites without checking the MD5/SHA checksum.

Frankly just googling and then downloading stuff that looks like it could help is bound to lead to a malware infested computer.

I haven't been infested with malware in the last decade, although this is only anecdotal evidence.

One of the very clear things that good Linux distros have over Windows is the use of a centralized software repository.

It is indeed convenient for installing various software packages --- which is sorely lacking in Windows --- although the usage of a centralized software repository does not guarantee that the binaries will be free of defects/malware either, since someone could poison the upstream source of software(which already happened in the past [slashdot.org] ) and the maintainer would have no clue.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (3, Insightful)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648477)

it come to our attention that someone released a fake DT PRO version that is contaminated with trojans and viruses, among the fact it is only a DT Lite and not a PRO version!

Tried any bootleg copies of Microsoft compatable software lately? In Linux, malware is the exception. In Windows, you better have your AV up to date as malware, trojans, and viruses is pretty much standard on the shady side of town.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (1)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648139)

I don't know how old CDBurnerXP is (I'm talking about an experience I had with Windows when switching to the very first iteration of Ubuntu when Linux finally stuck) but Daemon tools plain didn't work for me back then.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (4, Informative)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648241)

Knowledge is power:

- Windows Reskits have cdburn.exe and dvdburn.exe - very capable tools for recording media
- D-Tools is free and is an excellent tool

I have multiple machines running Linux and Windows (this particular laptop I am posting a reply from is a Linux only Thinkpad) and Linux is not really more desktop capable. I am playing the devil's advocate here: good for you if you managed to figure out that Linux works better for you.

It doesn't work better for everyone. I need Photoshop (Sorry, I am not too bright to use GIMP), I need a couple of my RTS games that I play casually and I need my Windows Rhapsody client. I use wine for Photoshop, Caesar3 and I use Vmware + Windows 2000 for Rhapsody. I also need Windows to watch streaming Netflix and I'll be creating an XP image in the near future just for Netflix (Netflix supports only WinXP and higher).

So now do you get an idea? Linux isn't desktop ready because a majority of the rest of the world isn't ready for Linux. This is a 100% Linux laptop and still I need to rely on wine and Vmware to use the applications I really want/need.

My first Linux distribution was Redhat 5.2 and it's been quite a journey - Ubuntu 8.04 for me is the closest I've seen to a perfect Linux desktop but as much as I love it and use workarounds to keep using it fulltime, the distribution isn't there yet. Linux *isn't* there yet. I want it to be and I'll rejoice the day I have to stop using my workarounds.

I love using my Linux laptop over my windows machines at home (one's a high end gaming machine, the other's a pretty decent Windows Media Center box) and I love using my Linux machines at work (5 boxes running Linux and one Windows notebook) but I do keep windows around for Windows does tasks that Linux cannot do for me yet.

I usually bash Microsoft and Windows freely but I also do acknowledge Linux's shortcomings. If you believe otherwise, well, there is this certain cliche about ignorance and bliss...

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (3, Insightful)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648507)

Linux *isn't* there yet.

Are you implying something is there yet? From what I've seen, Apple is closer to "there" than MS. Especially with Vista. MS may be close, but they are headed away from target. At least Linux and Apple are headed in the right direction.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (4, Insightful)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648277)

MS seems to deliberately makes their OS do almost nothing useful beyond the basics it seems (or was it that Monopoly ruling that caused this?) It's now just 3rd party apps for most people.
I may be wrong, but I was taught that there is a division between an operating system and the applications that it runs. The OS is supposed to handle things like IO and memory, while the real functionality comes from userland applications (often third party) interacting with the OS. True, Microsoft gives you almost nothing out of the box, but in a way, so does Linux in some instances. (some distros give you the kernel, bash, compilers, the core utilities like cp, rm, etc, and some sort of package manager and let you fetch the rest yourself, while other distros come fully loaded.)

If you want to compare raw out-of-the-box functionality, then I agree with you-- a default no-frills XP install is practically useless compared to the average default Linux install, which mostly gives you what you need, though there are exceptions.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (4, Insightful)

jmpeax (936370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648331)

Exactly. A Linux distribution is the OS plus userland applications.

The Linux OS itself doesn't provide any of the functionality the GP talks about.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648523)

The Linux OS itself doesn't provide any of the functionality the GP talks about.

Of course there are exceptions. The first that came to mind was burning ISO's. In linux right click on the iso. In Windows, search for an application...

Time to duck..

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (3, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648361)

I may be wrong, but I was taught that there is a division between an operating system and the applications that it runs. The OS is supposed to handle things like IO and memory, while the real functionality comes from userland applications (often third party) interacting with the OS.


And how joyous it would have been if IE were not so tightly integrated with Windows following that theory.

However, wanting certain capabilities bundled with the OS is not necessarily asking for it being integrated with the OS.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (1)

mk_is_here (912747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648381)

You did not search hard enough.

For image burning there is ImgBurn.
For image mounting there is Daemon's Tools, though it is ad-ware bundled (but you could just not install it at all)

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648467)

Your kidding me right? img burn for windows is one of the best iso ripping and burning tools I have seen, and it's completely free. team that up with daemon tools and your good to go. If your going to say windows has problems, please do a little research first on free software for it. and no I'm not a microsoft fanboy, i've got a tribooted macbook, and i'd say the easiest to mount and burn isos is windows.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (1)

crhylove (205956) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648515)

Well, Linux is still a little slower, buggier, and less clean, for me. Though I do dual boot and love a lot of what Ubuntu x64 offers.

For burning cds I highly recommend infrarecord portable, which is free, open source, and as good or better than any other burning program I've used, just this side of Nero.

It's one of many great apps at the portable apps site.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (4, Insightful)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648125)

few are suggesting OS X is not ready for the desktop

While I wouldn't say that OSX isn't ready for the desktop, I would say it might not be ready for the corporate desktop.

One of the places Microsoft has put a lot of effort is into large-scale enterprise systems management. Features of Windows like Active Directory, Group Policy, WSUS, etc are what corporate clients really care about. They want to be able to easily and centrally manage users, permissions, operating system updates, and software restrictions. Unless/until there are tools that allow you to do these kinds of things with OSX and Linux, I think you'll see some hesitation on the part of large corporations.

I know you can do some of this stuff for Linux (user management with LDAP, customized package repos, etc) but I don't know about OSX. I do know however that there is a big difference between "ready for the desktop" and "ready for the corporate desktop".

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (2, Interesting)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648171)

You can do it with OS X server if you so wish.

In all honesty though, neither Linux nor OS X is really that great in a corporate environment (I'm in a design house - a lot of Mac systems). There's too much mucking around trying to get things to work. At least windows has all the stuff prepared and integrated and ready to roll. I haven't found (haven't really looked either) a distro that integrates in a server/client set-up like this yet. If there was one I might well go to it.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648363)

>Unless/until there are tools that allow you to do these kinds of things with OSX and Linux, I think you'll see some hesitation on the part of large corporations.

>I know you can do some of this stuff for Linux (user management with LDAP, customized package repos, etc) but I don't know about OSX. I do know however that there is a big difference between "ready for the desktop" and "ready for the corporate desktop".

Cant you taste the problem with those 2 statements? Second one negates the first one on Linux point.
Linux can and does work well in a corporate environment. Centrally managing huge server farms, pushing updates and son on and so forth... Can be done with Linux.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648131)

A major problem is that many companies have aging Access / Visual Basic applications and other custom made applications that are tied to Windows. WINE is an option of course, but some of them are probably so badly programmed that even Windows have problems running them...

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (5, Insightful)

kboodu (927349) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648167)

Unfortunately, what's preventing business's adopting Linux or OS X is the fact that the various 'solution providers' & VARs make more money reselling Microsoft products.

It's not just the Microsoft products that keep businesses using Microsoft products...it's the business processes that are wrapped around the existing software. Upgrades are expensive, but less expensive than conversions to new software (and processes). There are also costs (and questions) regarding conversion of legacy data.

Until businesses can migrate to systems that are agnostic to specific processes (and applications) , it will be difficult to show a positive return on investment for the large expense.

Re:Linux has been business-desktop ready for years (2, Interesting)

mangwills (635185) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648261)

Before, I used IE only to access a major Philippine bank online. But only a couple of months ago, it has now become accessible to Firefox in Linux. It seems more big companies are taking note of alternatives to Microsoft here in the Philippines.

Visio (1)

nguy (1207026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647897)

There are several good alternatives to Visio for diagramming on Linux (some of them actually more convenient than Visio IMO).

But the 2008 version of Visio may be a hosted application like Gliffy. It's a slick, Flash-based, collaborative application, and you can incorporate diagrams into any document by URL (as an image), including into Google Docs.

Technologically inclined person successfully uses (5, Funny)

patio11 (857072) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647905)

... a computer.

Film at 11.

Re:Technologically inclined person successfully us (1, Interesting)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647919)

I am not going to recommend to anybody that they change their company standards away from Microsoft. What I will tell you is that open source is a viable alternative that can be used in a production environment.
If there's one thing more annoying than an opinionated person, it's a person who can't give a decent opinion in the first place.

Stupid moderators (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648229)

Read the article THEN moderate.

Re:Technologically inclined person successfully us (1)

entropy99 (1301633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647937)

Naturally I haven't RTFA, but I would think there would be a lot of file format problems. I'm using Vista (pre-installed) and it's not a rare occurrence for someone to happily send me some text file from Microsoft Office that I can't open without spending a few hundred dollars (or looking at a garbled version in notepad).

Re:Technologically inclined person successfully us (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647953)

Then go install OpenOffice on your vista box and discover that it can read more document formats (and more variations on MS's own formats) thatn MS's software can.

Re:Technologically inclined person successfully us (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647985)

Then go install OpenOffice on your vista box and discover that it can read more document formats (and more variations on MS's own formats) thatn MS's software can.
Can't do that. If they find it installed on his computer he'll get sacked from his job at Microsoft.

Re:Technologically inclined person successfully us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648001)

If all you want is to read .doc files, skip all the bloat and use Abiword.

A productive year but at what cost... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647907)

Was the extra production worth all the ass rape that you must have endured at your local LUG meetings?

What I dont get.. (5, Interesting)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647921)

I really fail to grasp why corporations (NOT individuals) fail to understand the ramifications of such EULAs and MS software contracts.

Negotiating a seat deal with MS leads to a very nasty possible outcome: invasion by Business Software Alliance. If you refuse, you invalidate all your licenses... and they always find something "illegal". It's one thing to switch because of some perceived wrong or being high and mighty, but a corporation is a corporation. When it comes to software, they literally open themselves up for heavy liability if they accept MS and other COTS software.

GPL means something else too: if you dont create software, you can ignore any "bad side effects". Only violators who refuse to share source are gone after. Usage is truly free of legal ramifications.

Re:What I dont get.. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648033)

Take the analogy of building a house. Sure you can buy a piece a land and do it by yourself.

But most people pay contractors to do it. And it costs a lot of money, and there's a lot of delays, troubles, etc. But eventually they feel happy and comfy.

Of course, if a pipe breaks... when you built it yourself, you're the sole responsible for this.

Re:What I dont get.. (3, Interesting)

robo_mojo (997193) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648293)

But most people pay contractors to do it. And it costs a lot of money, and there's a lot of delays, troubles, etc. But eventually they feel happy and comfy.
Just as people use existing software because they are incapable or otherwise unwilling to write their own, people pay contractors to build their houses because contractors know how to build houses and can probably do so a lot cheaper and faster than you.

Of course, if a pipe breaks... when you built it yourself, you're the sole responsible for this.
I hope you aren't suggesting that anyone takes responsibility for the software you're using when it breaks. Read your EULA or GPL lately? Clearly this isn't why people use existing software.

Re:What I dont get.. (1)

robo_mojo (997193) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648299)

cheaper and faster than you
dammit. That should be "cheaper and faster than themselves".

Re:What I dont get.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648487)

>dammit. That should be "cheaper and faster than themselves".

No, you got it right the first time.

Re:What I dont get.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648057)

Usual devil's advocate role post:

On the other hand, companies end up liable if they fail to use due diligence. Something that is FIPS and Common Criteria certified is in some ways more important than something that is a lot more secure in day to day use, because come audit time, the OS or program with the papers attached shows due diligence, and most F/OSS projects don't have the money to pay for the certification, even though they will easily meet the criteria.

Part of the cost per seat of MS stuff is those certificates, and the fact that in general, should some patent breach be found on some MS software, MS's customers are protected, while for most F/OSS, should something be found in breach of a patent, not just the OSS project, but customers using it can be shut down and sued.

There are some companies which idemnify their customers if they get hit by a patent lawsuit, and also have the colored pieces of paper which can mean passing an audit or hard time in a Federal prison (due to Sarbanes Oxley compliance, or failure to do so). Both RedHat and Novell's offerings are both FIPS and Common Criteria compliant (at the minimum, both also are certified in a number of other standards.)

Experience too is a big thing. Finding MCSEs who are competant is a lot easier than finding competant RHCEs, or even decent UNIX admins in general. The costs for payroll to find the true UNIX admins who know their stuff as opposed to the guy with Ubuntu running on a P2 in the basement doing samba is enormous, and can easily overshadow MS's license fees.

Re:What I dont get.. (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648143)

Experience too is a big thing. Finding MCSEs who are competant is a lot easier than finding competant RHCEs, or even decent UNIX admins in general. The costs for payroll to find the true UNIX admins who know their stuff as opposed to the guy with Ubuntu running on a P2 in the basement doing samba is enormous, and can easily overshadow MS's license fees.
The problem here is that most MCSE's are still only capable of setting up a fisher-price level network. The company leaves itself exposed because there is inadequate control over information flow and company secrets can easily be leaked. This is a really serious problem with potentially more disastrous consequences than some kind of imaginary license dispute.

Re:What I dont get.. (5, Insightful)

Beefslaya (832030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648207)

Not to flame, just giving my perspective.

But...You are right...kind of... (you must be a CISSP?)

The funny thing is that the compliances you speak of, are from more respected UNIX/LINUX sources than you think (or care to Google). Just because "Microsoft" is stamped on the box doesn't mean you get a free pass from the NSA or other government security office.

True UNIX and Linux admins don't (and won't) fit into most company IT budgets. Which is why 90% of them are consultants (such as myself), and are treated like rogue warriors, and don't necessarily warrant a full time position. At $75-$125 per hour, they are the true guru's who fix your HP-UX and AIX machines that run your accounting software and gets your numbers to your "precious" shareholders. They are the admins who come in and do "forensics" to figure out where the DOS attacks came from, or how to get your systems running in a hurry.

MSCE's on the other hand ARE $0.10 per baker's dozen, and fit well within the 25K-40K budget for most company IT wages. (And they get the double bonus acting as Windows Help Desk personnel for regular end users.)

They are the ones pointing to the "mystery box" that holds the magical number software as I walk in. Quite often I deal with horrified executives that wonder "Why can't Joe Mcse get it up and running, he's got a certification?!?!" The answer is because it's above their "Geeks" head, and they don't have time to do the research because their phone is ringing off the hook, answering why Outlook isn't responding, or some guy lost his "Start" button.

You're not the first. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647923)

Protip: You're not the first person to use linux for a whole year.
*Gasp*

Re:You're not the first. (1, Flamebait)

OblivionVII (1253178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647963)

You're not the first to troll /. either :)

Re:You're not the first. (-1, Troll)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648211)

Running Linux is a lot like being an old-school VolksWagen hobbyist(read: repairman).

New Linux user: "I can't play MP3's? Oh, wait, I can, but they sound like chipmunks are singing -- okay, edit grub: apic nolapic. Okay, works. Oh, shit, I can't read my windoze files! Time to apt-get NTFS3G and mount the filesystem. Oh, crap: I want to fully utilize my graphics...time to edit xorg.conf . Oh noes! Now X won't load! Wait, I can log in as root(even though my Ubuntu install didnt even allow me to edit the root account last time). Okay, Logged into a terminal as root...edit xorg.conf using nano...what? Read-only?! But I'm root! I should be able to edit anything I want! *Sigh*. Okay, reinstall linux...no, reinstall Windows. At least I know what crap to expect from windows!"

...And that's why Linux won't yet replace desktop Windows! True Story.

hmm... (1)

linuxIsLife (1044762) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647961)

Is he a Micro$oft worker ?

Oh sweet, MS Free! (-1, Troll)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647973)

I also tried this.

Hardy Heron maxes out the CPU for tasks XP handles with less muscle. The MP3 player skips if you open a new firefox tab. Nice!

Gnome freezes every 3 hours at best.

After fighting with "restricted" drivers for a week, I gave up running dual monitors. This is of course a "driver" issue and therefore the fault of capitalism...at least that's what I garner from all the forums. Oh and I should RTFM.

The wireless card stops running after 2 hours. Ubuntu makes a fine server, but geeze does it suck cocks as a desktop.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647979)

the audio skipping sounds related to a pulseaudio problem people were having.
Updating to the latest kernel in hardy-proposed fixed that for me.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (2, Interesting)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647999)

You missed the part where he is running KDE, not Gnome. KDE is a more mature environment in almost every way (accessibility being one of the notable exceptions, I use Gnome on tablet PCs for its better onscreen keyboard and cursor manipulation functions).

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (4, Funny)

TheP4st (1164315) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648091)

Ubuntu makes a fine server, but geeze does it suck cocks

I'll keep that in mind for the next time my girlfriend have a "headache".

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (2, Informative)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648101)

This is of course a "driver" issue and therefore the fault of capitalism
The rest of your post could be passed off as mere anecdote, with a bit of 12-year-old language, but this is a bit of a troll.

It's not capitalism at all. It's binary blobs in the kernel. The two are orthogonal -- plenty of very profit-driven companies have discovered that it is useful to have Linux support, and it is far less work to do so when you release source and let the community maintain it. Oh, and the drivers end up better, too.

Oh, and this is just hilarious:

The wireless card stops running after 2 hours. Ubuntu makes a fine server, but geeze does it suck cocks as a desktop.
WTF? Why does your desktop have a wireless card?

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (2, Insightful)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648225)

A lot of warehouse computers use wireless because of cabling issues. It's not that uncommon.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648275)

Still thinking "warehouse" falls outside the realm of "desktop", but I concede the point.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648439)

Lots of people don't want to run an ethernet cable through their walls.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (2)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648449)

Yeah I see what you mean. To give a couple (better) examples: a lot of hot-desking environments use wireless. Open plan area's for call centres. I've seen a lot of cube farms using it in rented buildings because they were not permitted to run cabling. Was just that the first thing that came to mind was a warehouse I once worked in.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (2, Insightful)

LaskoVortex (1153471) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648335)

WTF? Why does your desktop have a wireless card?

Because he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. I'm sure his wireless card drops his connections because he lives in an apartment building with 30 routers all within 20 feet, each fighting for the same 11 channels. And what's up with not getting two monitors going? You really have to struggle to mess that up. Maybe he's using some Acer POS monitor that is semi-defective (I've had that problem) or trying to do it under VESA emulation. If you get a $40 Nvidia card with dual heads, you can install the Nvidia driver pretty easily. If you are clueless, you can let the driver do a virtual screen and run two monitors that way. Or if you have more than a handful of neurons, you can set up your Nvidia card as two separate devices and dual monitors can be supported just like with an iMac (for proof, I've posted the relevant part of my xorg.conf file as a reply to myself with my Karma bonus turned off). Also, gnome is stable. My semi-computer literate brother has been using gnome with breezy badger for about 2 years now. He hasn't had any problems. Basically, the GP is either trolling or has been proactive about hosing his otherwise good system. Even lifelong windows users who don't give a flip about *nix can switch to ubuntu without any effect on PRODUCTIVITY. I've seen it done more than once with old computers. The only people who should have a problem are gamers (voiding the productivity argument), ms windows developers, and corporates who get told what they can and can't run on their desktops.

As Promised (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648355)

Section "Monitor"
    identifier "Generic Monitor"
    vendorname "Generic"
    modelname "Flat Panel 1680x1050"
    HorizSync 31.5-90
    VertRefresh 60
    Option "DPMS"
    modeline "1680x1050@60" 147.14 1680 1784 1968 2256 1050 1051 1054 1087 -hsync +vsync
    gamma 1.0
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
    identifier "monitor1"
    vendorname "Generic"
    modelname "Flat Panel 1280x1024"
    HorizSync 31.5-90
    VertRefresh 60
    Option "DPMS"
    modeline "1280x1024@60" 108.0 1280 1328 1440 1688 1024 1025 1028 1066 +hsync +vsync
    gamma 1.0
EndSection

Section "Device"
    identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NV40? [Unknown nVidia Card]"
    boardname "nv"
    busid "PCI:1:5:0"
    driver "nvidia"
    Option "LogoPath" "/usr/local/lib/nvidia/Cloudy.png"
    screen 0
EndSection

Section "Device"
    identifier "device1"
    boardname "nv"
    busid "PCI:1:5:0"
    driver "nvidia"
    Option "LogoPath" "/usr/local/lib/nvidia/Cloudy.png"
    screen 1
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier "Default Screen"
    Device "NVIDIA Corporation NV40? [Unknown nVidia Card]"
    Monitor "Generic Monitor"
    Option "LogoPath" "/usr/local/lib/nvidia/Cloudy.png"
    DefaultDepth 24
    SubSection "Display"
        depth 24
        modes "1680x1050@60"
    EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    #
    Identifier "screen1"
    Device "device1"
    Monitor "monitor1"
    Option "LogoPath" "/usr/local/lib/nvidia/Cloudy.png"
    DefaultDepth 24
    SubSection "Display"
        depth 24
        modes "1280x1024@60"
    EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "ServerFlags"
    option "Xinerama" "true"
EndSection

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (1)

dutchd00d (823703) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648501)

On the other hand, he may have an AMD/ATI card, and in that case I can sympathize. I managed to get a dual screen setup going, but it still won't do accelerated 3D and it fills up the xorg log file with error messages to the tune of 1 GB/day. Dual screen on an ATI card under Linux is a huge hassle.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (3, Informative)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648235)

Funny, a friend of mine had a similar experience with XP SP2 the other day. After it fell over he tried to reinstall it. Turns out windows didn't include the drivers for his network card, sound card, video card etc... and since this is a a rather old box he couldn't find the CDs with all the drivers on them. Kinda sucks when you can't get on the net to search for them. Anyway, I gave him an Ubuntu CD and it booted fine , got him on the internet without installing a thing, and allowed him to download the drivers he needed to his ipod (the guy is addicted to his windows games ). After 48 hours since the first attempt at installing windows he had his system back up an running, with a little help from ubuntu.

Of course he probably has a couple of pets on the thing now seeing that it took him quite a while to even get it into a state where it would accept updates and we all have external IPs.

For reference, on the latest Ubuntu I have my 3D acceleration ( on both screens ) and wireless on the laptop out of the box. My main gripe is the flash plugin for firefox crashing every now and then, but I'm guessing that is really adobe's fault.

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648421)

I would compare Windows to the communism of 50 years ago, Linux to democracy.

Indeed Windows is easy... if you fully accept the rules of the party (MS):
- the party decides what is good for you, what you should do and how you should do these things;
- the KGB/BSA fights all misbehaviors to the line of the party;
- the party makes sure you cannot live without it by make you an hostage of applications/file formats;
- if something is missing... well, you don't have it;
- if a product is bad... well, use it anyway;
- ...

On the other side there is linux/democracy:
- you have to fight and work for your own life;
- you have to decide in front of all possible (software) choices you have in your life;
- if something is missing you have to create it;
- if you think a product is bad, you can develop another one;
- ...

So it's up to all of us: let them decide for you or be adult and responsible. ;-)

Re:Oh sweet, MS Free! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648489)

Works for me. Take your troll elsewhere.

Open Source is nice (4, Interesting)

Ux64 (1187075) | more than 6 years ago | (#23647975)

We used to use Windows at our corporation + only open source programs. It was quite natural to move from Windows to Ubuntu, because it was the only commercial program that we were using. We have been happy since. No license hazzle.

over 45 days... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23647981)

... and my coworkers still have no idea that I switched to free software.

Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (5, Insightful)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648009)

I suppose all the 'Year of Linux' people will come out and say 'This is the year of Linux' and so on and so fourth.

Linux has had many years, and for what it has been up against, an illegal government coerced monopoly with more and more stress being put on it from every direction, it has not disappointed me in the slightest. With a dignity I hope that I have a tenth of when I die, Linux users and Linux developers have fought, and some died defending the vision of Linux and the FSF to preserve a future where some of us still do control how our computers are used.

To that end, every year Linux stays alive and relevant is the year of Linux. You see, Linux is fighting constantly a war against complete eradication. Not just Microsoft, but many software vendors, hardware makers, governments, and yes, a malevolent user base hate Linux, and every minute of every day seek to find ways of eradicating Linux from this world. A world where Linux is quarantined into certain sectors like server environment, is a path to extinction like Netware.

As far as Linux in the social arena. Linux as a social movement in its aspect as a social reform movement need not die out. In the Internet world, Linux is a symbol of transparency, of honest behavior, and accountability. Without Linux we would all be staring at a dark Palladium filled future.

So, in the name of the secular Linux social movement for transparency, property rights, freedom of speech and what not. Try and see what you can do to prevent Linux the OS from going into that quite good night. Develop. Write code, fix drivers, create new ideas. That driver for that hardware, that new application may be the driver or the program that changes history.

Yes there are aspects of Linux that are difficult. So, lets make sure this year isn't the last year of Linux, the year Linux became as obscure as DR-DOS, and Amiga, and the Z80. because, I'm sorry, but some things have to be fought for.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (5, Funny)

syousef (465911) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648035)

With a dignity I hope that I have a tenth of when I die, Linux users and Linux developers have fought, and some died defending the vision of Linux and the FSF to preserve a future where some of us still do control how our computers are used.

I didn't realize that free software was such a dangerous thing to get into? Did someone overdose on pizza and coke while kernel debugging late one night or something???

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (3, Funny)

martinw89 (1229324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648061)

Always an XKCD [xkcd.com] for every occasion.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648281)

I think it's fair to say people have at the very least lost jobs over it.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648083)

What a dramatic, thought-provoking, and insightful tale of survival and hope. It almost made me forget that we're just talking about 1s and 0s that simply serve as tools to get stuff done.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

Capitalist Piggy (1298699) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648187)

Yes there are aspects of Linux that are difficult. So, lets make sure this year isn't the last year of Linux, the year Linux became as obscure as DR-DOS, and Amiga, and the Z80. because, I'm sorry, but some things have to be fought for.
So what exactly have you done to fight?

I think this begs an answer because for the vast majority of people who use Linux, they consider it a tool at work and a hobby or way to pad a resume with contributions at home.

It doesn't seem like a fight as much as the natural way things go when you've got price, performance and stability on your side. When politics are involved, there's always going to be pitfalls, but they tend to be temporary setbacks.

Fortunately, I don't see a bleak future where Linux has been outlawed and the only people who run it are hiding in basements, packing away AK47's, waiting for a big standoff over their OS choice.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648205)

I didn't mean kill people as in violence. I have done some technical things on the research end. I did this for university.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfIuXltBHE [youtube.com]

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

Capitalist Piggy (1298699) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648307)

Not to sound nasty, but that sounds more like promotion than fighting.

I've changed a few opinions on the use of Samba and implemented it, to varying degrees, in several companies. I considered it better utilization of resources and not a battle. In fact, had something else worked better, I would have promoted it's use.

Perhaps I should have made a big presentation, with music and slides, instead of just showing the performance gains first-hand on a test system.

Just make sure you don't battle yourself into a box if IT is what you want to do. Once outside the safe nest of a university, it takes a broader approach of implementing the best solution for a particular scenario. You won't get very far if always touting what you desire due to personal preferences, morality, agendas, etc.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648371)

In the IT world if I go into a company, I will have no choice. I will have to implement systems such as Active directory I will have to put together software I don't want too. In the corporate world, Network Adimins have no choice at all.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1)

wellingj (1030460) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648219)

Just wait till BigBrother comes along and demands you use his hardware and software... Then you might think differently...

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (2, Funny)

ady1 (873490) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648223)

What you wrote is totally amazing.
Although I have to ask, would you be kind enough to share what you're smoking?

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648383)

...an illegal government coerced monopoly...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7266629.stm -EU fines Microsoft for anti-competitive practices

There are many things you can pin the poor performance of Linux on the desktop on, from poor driver support through to the frequent need to dive into command lines and search internet forums. Government support of Microsoft is, I think, a fantasy.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (3, Insightful)

jmpeax (936370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648431)

Linux users and Linux developers have fought, and some died defending the vision of Linux and the FSF to preserve a future where some of us still do control how our computers are used
Oh please. Rubbish like this will only ever increase the gap between closed and free software.

Come back down to Earth. The fight is about getting people to look at software differently in order to facilitate more productivity and ultimately better business.

How do you think the general public, let alone a company, would respond to your sci-fi inspired, quasi-revolutionary imagery? You would either be dismissed as delusional or dangerous. In either case, you wouldn't be helping your cause.

Re:Preventing Linux's 'Last year' (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648479)

The year of Linux on the desktop has been and gone.

Microsoft-free (2, Insightful)

s74ng3r (963541) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648085)

I think the headline should be written as "Microsoft-free, ..".

Free?! (1)

mathnerd314 (1212880) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648209)

Am I the only one who misread the title as "Microsoft is free, one year later"?

Re:Free?! (1)

Weedlekin (836313) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648269)

No, you're not. There I was, all excited about the idea of MS finally seeing the FOSS light, only to discover that it was yet another blog about a guy who managed to use Linux for browsing, EMAIL, and basic office productivity for _a whole year_ (and he still can't get his HP Laserjet to work with it).

Yawn.

Re:Free?! (1)

olliM (1239308) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648283)

No you're not. I was expecting some sort drug-seller type of deal where the first year is free so you have enough time to get locked into all ms products...

visio alternatives (2, Informative)

z_gringo (452163) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648255)

I also gave up windows entirely around the first of this year. I had been running debian on one system and windows on the laptop up to that point, but more and more I was using debian for almost everything. Visio was a big deal for me too, but I am getting used to using Dia. Visio is better, there is no doubt, but Dia is adequate, and I am slowly converting all my drawings to Dia. I sure wish there was something that could read .vsd files. The other thing that kept me on windows so long was that I could not get my work's VPN to work on linux, but I was trying to get it going on Fedora. It seems to work ok on Ubuntu. Thankfully, the wireless drivers also work well on ubuntu, so at this point, I have very little need for windows.

Yay Ambiguous titles (3, Funny)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648287)

It might have to do something with the fact that I am a non-native speaker of the language but I read the title thrice...

Was it:

1. Microsoft Free (a year ago Microsoft was released from prison after making a deal with DA which included the real scoop behind flying chairs)

2. Microsoft Free as in Pick Your Free Tibet Joke /sharonstone> I kid.

From the article, towards the end he mentions he uses XP and enjoys it as well but also mentions All I can say is that for the last year, I have been using Open Source exclusively and I am loving it!...

Quick, someone hire him?

Microsoft free years later (3, Interesting)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648313)

I switched over to Linux around SuSE 6.0 days and to be honest I have never looked back. I now use Linux 100% at work and at home after doing a LPIC-101/102 course at my local college. This leads me into another funny story were I now have a whole branch of the company were I work at now running on Linux. The company has a Windows/OSX/Unix technical support contractor and because Linux has been so rock solid for us he didn't even know we had a branch here. This was simply because no one has ever rang him for help (and yes I have been away for weeks at a time).

He he... Lemme guess... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648321)

From the private journal of madgreek:

Day 365, "Microsoft-Free":

I'm so glad this sham is over. I can't *wait* to get back to using a fully-featured OS with productivity applications capable of handling actual, real-life, grownup business needs.

Oh, and I can't wait until I don't have to f-ing hack my own drivers for new "cutting-edge" (and by "cutting-edge" I mean 2-year-old, in common use my the majority of PC users) hardware.

To be honest, I actually didn't even *use* Linux except to boot, start a VM, and run Windows to actually get the Grown-Up Work done for the last nine months.

... Just six more hours... Maybe I can pass the time by playing a fun, modern (and by "modern" I mean something slightly newer than nethack) game on my Linux bo- Uh.. Nevermind. I'll just talk to Eliza in emacs until this cruel, horrible torture is over.

Sharepoint? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648333)

He's just lucky that his company hasn't discovered Sharepoint yet. Once every important document that you need is locked up on a sharepoint server, than even OpenOffice isn't enough to work on them properly.

It's Microsoft's best lock-in tool in years.

I went the opposite direction (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648341)

and couldn't be happier. Some background: I've been using Unix (real Unix, mind you) and fake-Unix (Linux) for the last 15 years, through college, grad school (PhD), and now industry work as a software engineer. I'd been through a lot with Unix. It's good for what it does: server-side code and client-side software engineering for writing that server-side code. I've spent and will continue to spend many years using desktop Unix, including using Motif, CDE, twm, fvwm, 4dwm, KDE, gnome, and a slew of other interfaces and tools. I've spent more time on vi/vim than most of you have spent watching porn.

Nothing on Linux today approaches anything near the user experience and breadth of applications that Windows or Mac OS X provide.

Don't delude yourselves. OpenOffice is just as good as Office! Gimp is just as good as Photoshop! Yeah? Is your tricked-out Honda Civic as good as that BMW down the street too? Of course it is. People and corporations are just too stupid to know it.

This is the year of desktop Linux! Yeah, well this is the year just as much as 2002 was and as much as 2015 will be. But the Linux community is working hard on improving the experience! And don't you think Windows and Mac OS will move forward as well?

The Linux desktop experience today in 2008 has the appeal, driver support, and aesthetics of Windows 98. Oh wait, Win98 did have driver support.

Take Linux for what it is: a tool on which to get your work done, just as Windows and Mac OS are other types of tools with which to get your work done.

If I write an article (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648367)

Linux Free, One Year Later and post it to /., do you think it would be posted?

Linux at work, it works ! (2, Funny)

kTag (24819) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648373)

Wooh, this is news.
Next week, how I used Macs since 2003 at work.
What a revolution !

Re:Linux at work, it works ! (1)

Excelcia (906188) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648429)

As soon as all of OS/X is open source, this will be news.

Whoop de shit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648387)

Whoop de' f***ing shit.

Good on you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23648389)

I convinced my boss to let me use Kubuntu at work instead of the standard Solaris X86/Win XP pair we all get issued with. I find the the silly little things are the biggest time savers, like tabbed terminal/console sessions on a dual head kit, means I can kick up several jobs at once ( I'm an Oracle DBA by trade ), work on scripts and deal with other sundry tasks all at once. A standard x86 3Ghz/2GB box, nothing special. It's standard company hardware, so unlike my colleagues Sun kit, the Windows desktop guys always have spares for me if/when I need them, most of the Windows support guys are secret penguin users at home, so I get the support and encouragement on the quiet! I am just about to convince one of my Solaris SA colleagues to dump his desktop kit and go with the future.

At home I too use 95% Kubuntu and XP for the kids edu-games, trying to virtualise the XP or get the kids games running under Wine, which is a lot better than it used to be. Tried to convert my Missus from her Apple/XP pair. but she can't as she does a lot of Photoshop stuff, which GIMP can't quite handle just yet, but I'll wait another year or two and drop some more hints.

I truly believe we are right on the very brink of finally delivering a linux desktop that actually works for the average user, another 18 months and one more release of *buntu and we'll be there. I have nothing against distro's, I like tinkering, but at the end of the day I just want to use it, no matter what I hit it with, spent way too much time with Red Hat 5.x and 6.x trying to get stuff working, now I just want to "wash'n'go" with my desktop, *buntu gives that in spades!

Just a question (1, Interesting)

Kwirl (877607) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648393)

Why is it that the *nix users seem to have BSOD issues on an infinitely higher rate than the rest of the world?

I've got 4 computers and if I see one BSOD a year, it is usually fixed by a reboot or tightening the RAM/PCI devices/etc. Yet the *nix people are like 'well, my windows computer BSOD'd on me 7 times again today, blah blah blah rant rave blah'.

Not to mention the fact the most of the time, BSOD errors are caused by faulty third party device driver applications or faulty hardware, neither of which are really MS's fault, imo.

I tried to go Linux free (1, Troll)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648407)

I tried to go Linux free from 7 months, but ultimately the various shortcomings of the software used under Linux and Linux itself (apparently I had a driver problem that made my internet connection work quite slow), drove me back to Windows XP. I do, however use OOo, Gimp, Firefox and Thunderbird.

ubuntu + nvidia 6800gs (1)

had3z (1064548) | more than 6 years ago | (#23648443)

god knows i tried to switch. ubuntu just doesn't work with my card. 6.10 was too new for me to bother, 7.04 and 7.10 were something like "ok, maybe the next version will work" in 8.04 i tried really hard, but no luck. still no GUI, entered terminal and tried to reconfigure xorg, only to encounter the "debconf has locked smth" bug. i dug deeper, killed the process, only to find out they nerfed dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to keybord settings only. I edited the xorg.conf manually, only to discover the fucker rewrites the file with default settings after i reboot. the "only free software" policy is really hurting the ease of installation. nvidia drivers, flash player, mp3 support, the like. maybe 8.10 will be better
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