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Great Preview Video of Mario Super Sluggers

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the wtb-us-nintendo-channel dept.

Wii 83

Kotaku has what looks to be a great preview video of Mario Super Sluggers, seemingly ripped from the Japanese Nintendo Channel. The video is quite long and does a great job of showcasing the game's control set. While the controls look relatively limited (especially the pitching), haven't we all wished for a few bombs to throw on those unfortunate pop-ups?

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When are the real Wii Games coming? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23653463)

So... when are the Wii games coming that don't involve Mario & Co.?

Re:When are the real Wii Games coming? (3, Interesting)

Cerberus7 (66071) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653603)

Nintendo has spent 20 years establishing brand recognition for a large quite of characters, headlined by Mario. They're never going to drop him as their primary star. They do have lots of games [wikipedia.org] , most of which don't star Mario.

Re:When are the real Wii Games coming? (3, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653773)

So... when are the Wii games coming that don't involve Mario & Co.?
Twilight Princess. Wii Fit. Or are you looking for a game that doesn't have even a cameo of Mario?

Re:When are the real Wii Games coming? (1)

ematic (217513) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653799)

Dude, they're already here. Have you played No More Heroes yet?

meta review [metacritic.com]
trailer [youtube.com]

Re:When are the real Wii Games coming? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23654979)

Dude, they're already here. Have you played No More Heroes yet?

meta review [metacritic.com]
trailer [youtube.com]

Awesome story (pretty graphic language), but VERY annoyingly repetitive game play. More so than the typically annoyingly repetitive game play.



ugh, this again? (-1, Flamebait)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653587)

We're really all tired of the plumber's crack.

Try something new. This is for fanboys and little kids.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

oahazmatt (868057) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653745)

We're really all tired of the plumber's crack. Try something new. This is for fanboys and little kids.
It's pretty obvious that the Wii is not a machine for "hardcore" gamers. Why is there still such surprise over this face?

Re:ugh, this again? (4, Insightful)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653909)

I invite you to explain to me exactly what a "hardcore" gamer is. In addition, please explain why I - being a person in possession of a Wii and a DS, who plays approximately an hour on the former and half an hour on the latter each and every day - is not within your arbitrary definition of "hardcore".

Re:ugh, this again? (2, Insightful)

oahazmatt (868057) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654079)

I invite you to explain to me exactly what a "hardcore" gamer is. In addition, please explain why I - being a person in possession of a Wii and a DS, who plays approximately an hour on the former and half an hour on the latter each and every day - is not within your arbitrary definition of "hardcore".

That's exactly the problem, and why "hardcore" is in quotes in my post.

The "hardcore" audience itself is poorly defined. I have basically every Ninteo System ever made, a few of Segas, a Playstion and PS2, and an Xbox 360. But I've never spent more than five hours a week playing videogames. Am I "hardcore" because of the amount of systems I have? Or does it come down to game time?

And if it comes down to game time, then there's the stigma of the Wii and that it's for "fanboys and little kids". So, even I spent one hundred hours a week mastering every game on the Wii, there's a chance I will still be mocked and not considered "hardcore" because I'm playing on a "child's system".

Nintendo intended the Wii to target the "casual gamer" demographic, which implies we have at least two demographics, the other being hardcore. One can infer that "casual" is someone who will play a few minutes here or there, when they feel like it. However, that still leaves the "hardcore" demographic horribly ill-defined.

So, in short, I've never found two people who agree 100% on what a "hardcore" gamer is. I was using the comment to relate to the implied branding of the Wii as a fanboy or children's system.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

Clovis42 (1229086) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656375)

"Casual" vs. "Hardcore" has nothing to do with the time spent. People will play "casual" games for hours and hours. Since it's one of the few games I've downloaded on my phone I've probably racked up 20+ hours of Zuma.

I don't think it's a matter of defining the audience, but the games themselves. Casual gamers play casual games, hardcore gamers play hardcore games. Now, defining the difference can be difficult. Certainly traditional FPSs, RPGs, and RTSs are, or can be, "hardcore". They are games that traditional "gamerz" play. Most "puzzle" games, like Zuma, Lumines, and Bejewelled are certainly casual. Most flash games, and other free internet games are casual. PopTop games like Diner Dash and Virtual Villagers are casual. There's also some kind of inbetween though. What do you do with Puzzle Quest? I don't consider traditional adventure games to be casual, but they are close. They certainly are not hardcore, right? What the hell am I talking about, BTW? This is obviously a pointless semantic argument....

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657051)

That's exactly the problem, and why "hardcore" is in quotes in my post.

Ah, OK, so we're kind of on the same page then.

The "hardcore" audience itself is poorly defined. I have basically every Ninteo System ever made, a few of Segas, a Playstion and PS2, and an Xbox 360. But I've never spent more than five hours a week playing videogames. Am I "hardcore" because of the amount of systems I have? Or does it come down to game time?

I'd go one step further and ask whether it even needs to be defined in the first place. As for costs - does that define being hardcore? As you say, if you spend a fortune but don't play much or aren't very good at your games, is that hardcore? Or how about if you spend a lot, but it's a tiny amount of your disposable income? Surely that's not as hardcore as spending less, but it being a greater percentage of your money.

And if it comes down to game time, then there's the stigma of the Wii and that it's for "fanboys and little kids". So, even I spent one hundred hours a week mastering every game on the Wii, there's a chance I will still be mocked and not considered "hardcore" because I'm playing on a "child's system".

Indeed. You could be ridiculed for playing easy, childish games or whatever. On the other hand, I'd say anyone who finishes all of Mario Galaxy (all 120 stars, twice, plus the bonus star) is incredibly hardcore. Some people think I'm hardcore because I've got star ratings on all courses on Mario Kart. I'd also say it's pretty hardcore to finish a long game like Zelda.

Nintendo intended the Wii to target the "casual gamer" demographic, which implies we have at least two demographics, the other being hardcore. One can infer that "casual" is someone who will play a few minutes here or there, when they feel like it. However, that still leaves the "hardcore" demographic horribly ill-defined.

I think it would be fairer to say that Nintendo intended to cater to a broader audience, which could include both the hardcore and the n00bs. As we've both hinted at, if you can be excellent at a challenging game, that's pretty hardcore regardless of the console.

So, in short, I've never found two people who agree 100% on what a "hardcore" gamer is. I was using the comment to relate to the implied branding of the Wii as a fanboy or children's system.

Yeah, that makes sense. I've had plenty of arguments about what exactly it means to be a "hardcore" gamer. In my experience, people seem to want to define it at someone who plays graphically high end FPS games on a very expensive PC or a 360/PS3. I'm sure there are hardcore players out there, but I don't think the genre of game or the platform is what defines it. I'd like to think that being hardcore means playing a lot of games, and probably being pretty good at them. Hell, you could be hardcore at Tetris on the Gameboy if you were really good at it.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

wolf12886 (1206182) | more than 6 years ago | (#23658011)

You and Von Helmet make good arguments, and I tend to agree with you, but my personal belief has always been that hardcore gamers aren't defined by how good they are, or specifically by what games they play, or how much they play, but how seriously they take their games.

i think Smash bros is an example of a game that can be casual, or hardcore, depending on how you play it, in general a good acid test is whether or not you consider practicing your moves, and working to become a more proficient gamer to be worth your time, if you do, your probably what most people would consider hardcore, if you just play for kicks then your probably casual, or somewhere in between.

Referring to the wii specifically, id say the only games that are "Casual" are those that don't promote or reward skill, such as racing games with rubber band AI, or FPS's that automatically handicap players in the lead

Also, I'd differentiate between casual gamers and n00bs, since it seams like the people we think of as n00bs are usually only the hardcore gamers without the skills. I don't think casual gamers really care enough about their abilities to classify each other.

Re:ugh, this again? (2, Funny)

OldeTimeGeek (725417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654773)

Hardcore gamers always start new games in "hard" mode - easy is for lamers and n00bs.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656187)

You've been modded funny, but I think you're probably nearest the truth.

Re:ugh, this again? (2, Interesting)

alan_dershowitz (586542) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656857)

Here are some ideas based on my own experience of myself and my friends during high school/college:

  • You play and enjoy true "dungeon crawler" RPGs. Where you just run around and kill stuff and level up and that's it.
  • If a game kicks your ass, you try harder instead of quitting.
  • You start the game on "hard"
  • You play for more than 5 hours a day (this may be too little now because of WoW.)
  • You own every next-gen system, and not just because there's some exclusive you had to have.
  • You own one or more Japanese game soundtrack or drama CDs.
  • There is some classic game from the 80's or 90's that you never actually stopped playing.
  • You have purchased Japanese import games to beat the American release date (doesn't for European gamers who need to import games so they don't have to wait a year or more.)
  • You use a Gameshark to make your games HARDER rather than easier
  • You habitually play games that only let you save at savepoints that are sometimes hours apart (this is a good indicator that a game is for hardcore players rather than casual.)
  • You will put up with the worst control schemes ever foisted on the gaming market, without complaining.
  • You can, literally, talk about gaming until you get physically tired before you get bored.
  • More stuff, possibly involving games with the word "Dragon" in the title


If you read this and though "that's stupid" then you are not a hardcore gamer.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

shoemilk (1008173) | more than 6 years ago | (#23663479)

Thank God! Man, I'd shoot myself... ;)

Re:ugh, this again? (2, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654177)

I think it's more accurate to say the Wii is not a machine exclusively for hardcore gamers. After all, a gamer is hardly hardcore if he avoids the Wii.

Incidentally, the Wii game I've enjoyed the most, and put the most hours into, is Fire Emblem... which does not use the Wiimote at all. Other hardcore suggestions: Metroid, of course, and No More Heroes. Resident Evil 4 was terrific, an example of a game transformed from Very Good to Great by the addition of the Wiimote.

Re:ugh, this again? (2, Funny)

Rydia (556444) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654333)

Fire Emblem: So difficult it will sterilize you.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

CogDissident (951207) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654663)

I thought I was the only one who played it on easy. Good to find another person out there that also does.

Re:ugh, this again? (1)

Sorcha Payne (1047874) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655117)

Haha, someone has to mention that game in this topic. I beat the game on normal (taking me like 70 hours, because I didn't want to lose any characters) and then I tried hard. God, was it difficult. I gave up in frustration.

Love Mario (1)

GeorgeMonroy (784609) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653637)

and I am 33 years old. My problem is not with the characters but with the controls. I want realistic controls using the Wiimote. At least that is how I would use the Wiimote.

Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (5, Insightful)

Robert1 (513674) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653923)

Why does absolutely no developer actually use the damn wii-control in the way people want/expect. Take Zelda - you expect Link to mimic your slashes in how you move the wiimote, instead you just shake it to get it to attack. It just serves as a funky way to push a button - shake = B.

Take this game and its pitching, from the video, - how would you expect to pitch with the wiimote. Obviously, how you pitch in real life. It would take the velocity of your swing, the twist of your hand, the motion and direction into account for a pitch. Instead we get the same fucking motion-equivalent-to-button-push bullshit. Watch the video, you pitch by tilting your hand down. Who the fuck pitches by tilting their hand down. The tilt down can easily be replaced by a button press, since they serve the same purpose. If you want to immerse people in the game with unique controls, why the hell don't the actually do it. How is tilting down a controller to pitch any more immersive than pressing a button.

I have been very, very disapointed by the Wii, since it seems that no one, apparently not even Nintendo, cares to make a game that actually uses the wii-mote in any meaningful way besides as a crosshair or as simply being another way to push a button (shake to attack!). The game that came closest to something like this was Boxing in Wii Sports. Sure it was flawed, but it gave a hint about how to make immersive gaming by showing how to use the controls to that effect. Everyone waited for a boxing-like game to come out, one that was more polished and really responsive - basically just improve upon what seems like a tech demo in Wii Sports. But it doesn't exist, hasn't been made.

At this point I'm beginning to wonder about the limitations of the wii-mote. It seems to me that the lack of games that we expect for the system - those with immersive, direct controls - may be fueled not by developers simply being lazy, but by the limits of what the wii-mote can do. Maybe we can never have a Zelda where the player directly controls his sword because its simply not possible with the wii-mote. Maybe we will never have a responsive boxing game because the wii-mote simply isn't responsive enough to do it. These are the things I and everyone expected from the system. Instead we have games that simply use the motions as buttons (does spinning in Mario Galaxy by shaking the wii-mote offer any benefit over a button?) or others that straight-up tell you to use a regular controller - Smash Bros. The only games we can say successfully used wii-mote it were RE4 and Metroid Prime as they actually used the aiming ability for it. Still, no actual games exist that actually uses the motion to any great benefit.

Sorry for the rant, but seeing yet another game completely miss the point of what the Wii SHOULD be just pissed me off.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (2, Interesting)

RaceProUK (1137575) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654155)

Two words: Wii Sports.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (2, Insightful)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654569)

Wii Sports is a tech demo at best, given how little content there is. It was fun for like two days.

I agree with the OP that the Wii has really not been used to its seeming potential. Either it really is just a rubbish console, or developers are just too lazy. I submit it's both (developers too lazy to make the most of a rubbish console). I'm not an uninformed hater, either. I have a Wii, but the games I like on it are Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros -- both basically Gamecube games. (I have Twilight Princess, but actually *for* the Cube). That is, the Wii's good games are IMO ones that have no need for the gimmicky wiimote. Just like my fav games on my DS have no need for the gimmicky touchscreen (though they desperately try to incorporate it, such as with Castlevania).

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655601)

Have you tried Warioware: Smooth Moves? That uses the Wiimote pretty well. Though I'll admit, it's the only one to do so. Actually, thinking about it, the Wiimote is suffering a mild form of what the Sixaxis is suffering, since not a single developer has fully utilised that one either, except maybe for flOw.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656917)

I think you're partly right here... The pointer gets used well in Resident Evil and Metroid Prime 3, and a couple of others, but the motion controls are utterly wasted, outside of a few titles. They're good in Wii Sports, Mario Galaxy makes some use of them, and so does Metroid Prime 3, but by and large they are just another button, and a more aggravating one.

What I really can't agree with you on is the touchscreen on the DS being gimmicky, or the best games not using it - not when you've got games like Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Meteos, Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents, Canvas Curse, Metroid Prime Hunters.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657221)

Well, with the DS my fav games are:

Mario64 DS (touchscreen obviously not necessary, and certainly less so than a joystick/thumbstick)
Mario Kart DS (touchscreen not even used really)
Castlevanias (touchscreen only used to finish off bosses -- insanely annoying)
Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (I admit the screen works... but I don't think it is an improvement over traditional handheld Zelda controls, and has almost no bearing on how much I enjoyed the game (except that my touchscreen is old and fubar so all my item selection was off by 5mm which made the game harder, hah))
New Super Mario Bros (touchscreen not used)

Not my fav:
MP Hunters (I'm left-handed... so yeah this game is like a big FU to me)

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#23665221)

Chou Soujuu Mecha MG. The game just wouldn't be the same without the touchscreen. Most of the controls of your mech are on it and they often act as a regulator to how you can use a certain ability (e.g. manual loading for the cannon you have where you have to drag the ammo into the weapon, close it and then pull a trigger or shoveling coal into the combustion chamber of a steam-powered mech or a death ray that comes with a row of switches that you have to flip to activate it, just like in the movies) or provide analog control over your melee weapon or steering or what have you.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

shoemilk (1008173) | more than 6 years ago | (#23663445)

I hate to break it to you, but wii Sports is ummm a sports game. Sports by nature have very little content. What did you want, unlockables? Oh, they're there in training mode, not hard, but there (unlockables don't belong in sports games aanyway).

What did you want from tennis? some complicated system where you have to run your player around with the nunchuck only to have it go flying out of your hand as you deperately try to swing the wiimote in your other hand?

or maybe you wanted the bowling game to come with a 10lbs addition for the wiimote to have the weight of a real bowling ball?

You say the Wii is a rubbish console, but what good has the PS3 and Xbox2 brought us? Sweat... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23664333)

Have you ever played an actual sports video game? Doesn't sound like it to me.

It's the Xbox 360 not Xbox2. And it's brought a bit more than sweat... in fact, that's mostly what the Wii is trying to sell people, what with Wii Fit and all. And for the record, the Wii IS a rubbish console. If it weren't for, as usual, the decent first-party offerings, it'd be a complete waste of money. Really, it's the Gamecube with a gimmicky controller that isn't used to nearly its full potential and which has 10x longer load times (Smash Bros Brawl's are abysmal compared to Melee).

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

SeePage87 (923251) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657673)

Two words: Wii Sports.
Not really. A better example would be Tiger Woods golf. Yeah, you manually spin the ball after you hit it, but the trajectories are significantly different depending on how open/closed your club face is and how much you rotate as you swing through the ball. Maybe the wiimote isn't responsive enough, but they don't need to change the look of the swing on the screen, just run some math to calculate the trajectory of the ball. Regardless, it does feel a lot more realistic and good than pushing an analog stick forward.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (2, Informative)

skeeto (1138903) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654219)

Well, the hobbyists did something very interesting that uses the Wii remote for more than "press a button by shaking it". Some guy implemented a system that turns a Wii into a sort-of VR display. A video on YouTube [youtube.com] demos it.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (4, Informative)

Kimos (859729) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654523)

You should try Boom Blox [youtube.com] . The game is basically a physics engine and a whole lot of little games that use it. The throwing physics are extremely realistic, to the point of exhausting your arm if you play for more than a few minutes. The jenga-like levels use extremely sensitive Wii controls to let you delicately pull blocks out of towers in all directions.

Nintendo may not be taking full advantage of the controls, but someone is...

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (4, Insightful)

quantumplacet (1195335) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654531)

you're completely right, and expect to continue to be disappointed. the wiimote does offer possibilities for interesting control schemes, but ultimately a true 1:1 motion to onscreen action correlation is not possible given the wii and wiimote hardware. everyone bought a wii and thought it was going to be amazing because wii sports gave the impression that such a 1:1 ratio was possible, but if you really examine how wii sports interprets motion controls, it's ultimately just a cheap trick to emulate 1:1 controls, which it only gets away with because the games are so simple. I do fully agree with you in being disappointed with the wii. my girlfriend and i bought one about a year ago, played it like crazy for a few weeks, bought 3 games within the first month, and haven't really touched it since.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0, Flamebait)

been42 (160065) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657477)

everyone bought a wii and thought it was going to be amazing because wii sports gave the impression that such a 1:1 ratio was possible, but if you really examine how wii sports interprets motion controls, it's ultimately just a cheap trick to emulate 1:1 controls, which it only gets away with because the games are so simple.

Wow. I'd hate to be there when someone sits you down and explains the reality of movie CGI, or stuntmen, or how magicians make things "disappear", or any number of other "cheap tricks" that make the world interesting and fun. Sure, I can't play baseball on the Wii with a 1:1 control ratio or whatever. But you know what I can do? GO OUTSIDE AND THROW A BASEBALL. I don't play games on the Wii to emulate real life. I play to have fun. Same story with any console. You want to have lifelike experiences? Enjoy real life. In the meantime, while you're busy complaining, can I have your controller?

P.S. I apologize if you are a plumber in real life and you just discovered that you don't make money by hitting bricks with your head.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

shoemilk (1008173) | more than 6 years ago | (#23663319)

Dammit! where are mod points when I need them? Seriously, Nintendo's offer of 1:1 is much closer than it's competitors. Pushing a button on a controler is much farther from swinging a bat then the Wiimote is.

Like some people further down, I don't want 1:1. There was a reason I never made the baseball team in high school. Let me hit my homeruns!

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (5, Insightful)

Rydia (556444) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654551)

You do realize that you can't have players directly control the sword in Zelda, or any other control scheme people keep ranting about, because your controls aren't the only factor that determines what happens.

Let's use zelda. You swing your sword. The enemy blocks it with a shield, and Link gets thrown back a bit. But you do not. You arm is down, but the fact that you were blocked necessitates the sword to be up in the air, reeling backwards. How are you going to reconcile the two? You could disable user control for a bit as Link reels, but where do you pick up afterward, provided the remote doesn't move? Link's sword teleports from being up to down, and you've just confused your player.

Another additional concern that is less prevalent in zelda that it would be in other games, that a large part of balancing a game (not to mention setting a scene) is controlling what the player is able to do. The remote is nearly weightless, it would be simple to just run at enemies swinging the remote back and forth as quickly as possible (very fast) to have link swing his sword as superhuman speeds. This destroys the scene (ridiculous physics), but it also screws up balancing; does the developer assume everyone will swing like a madman and make it really difficult for those who choose not to, or make it really easy for those who choose to do so by balancing the game toward those less inclined to flail their arms wildly?

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23655033)

Except that in Zelda's case, it's basically just ridiculous to use a motion-sensing control at all because of not only the things you mention, but what was mentioned before -- that the motions are just poor replacements for button presses.

The Wiimote is an abomination to gaming that never should have left the conceptual stage. It's a useless piece of hardware that just throws gaming back to a time where gimmicks like the Power Glove and FMV (which hasn't gone away, really, it's just been replaced by 3d backgrounds and cutscenes) were everywhere and pretty much universally despised by gamers.

What the hell has happened lately that garbage like this has actually become accepted? We need another 80's-style videogame crash, now.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (3, Informative)

Cerberus7 (66071) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655167)

The Wiimote is not an abomination, it just isn't being used as effectively as it should. Mario Kart Wii makes great use of the Wiimote, and I find the game to be massively superior to its standard-controller counterparts.

I agree on its mis-use in Twilight Princess. It's blatantly obvious that it's a Gamecube game that somebody said "you must make this use motion controls!"

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

twosmokes (704364) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656351)

I had the exact opposite reaction to Mario Kart Wii. I find the Wiimote klunky, imprecise, and unresponsive. After a couple of days trying to use the Wiimote I switched to the Gamecube controller. My son, who usually loves using the Wiimote (mostly for Sports), gave up after only 1 play session and will only use the Gamecube controller.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (3, Interesting)

dorath (939402) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657533)

I had the exact opposite reaction to Mario Kart Wii. I find the Wiimote klunky, imprecise, and unresponsive. After a couple of days trying to use the Wiimote I switched to the Gamecube controller. My son, who usually loves using the Wiimote (mostly for Sports), gave up after only 1 play session and will only use the Gamecube controller.

Until picking up Mario Kart for the Wii, I hadn't played any of the MK games for nearly a decade. If I had played any of them more recently then I'm sure that I wouldn't like the Wii-Wheel control scheme either. However, because it has been so long I don't miss the old controls, and any muscle memory I had for the old controller is long gone.

I've been tempted to try racing using the nunchuck controller to steer, but personally I find the wheel to be fun and so I'm sticking with it. My wife certainly doesn't have any problems using the wheel, she blasted right through the 50cc, 100cc, and 150cc classes and never expressed any desire for a different control mechanism.

In the end, your anecdotes vs mine, it doesn't really matter because we're given a choice of four (!) different control schemes: Wii Wheel, Wiimote and nunchuck, classic controller, and GameCube controller. That's a whole lot of choice and I'm glad that we're given the options.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Inda (580031) | more than 6 years ago | (#23665457)

I hate "me too" posts as much as the next person but... Me too!

My mother, who's never played a consol game in her 60-year life, managed a first place on her first go using the wheel. Me, with my 25 years of game experience, struggled with the wheel and have returned to the nunchuck.

One set of races away from getting 2 stars on all levels now! I've seen people with 3 but god knows how they managed that.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655159)

They could have easily fixed this; The enemy blocks, but Link's sword continues to the spot where the user dictated by the wiimote motion. In Die by the Sword [wikipedia.org] , you had the same full range of motion, and it worked great!

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 6 years ago | (#23661297)

but Link's sword continues to the spot
If I was "fixing" it and I was told I had to do something to make it work but was free to do whatever I wanted, I'd show Link's sword arm bounce back, but also a "ghost" arm that continued through the motion, and the player would have to move his arm (the ghost arm) back to the general area of Link's arm before he can swing again (thus, Link is "stunned" until the player recovers, and perhaps if Link is hit he drops his arm back to where the player's is). If the player realizes the attack is going to be blocked, they pull the blow and recover faster, or they feint and go in under the shield. Of course, if they don't swing hard, they'll barely scratch the guy.

Personally though, I'm not sure that the Wiimote accelerometers would be accurate enough to let a player "follow through" with a real slash move, which would almost certainly start and end out of view of the IR bar, and probably end up causing the on-screen sword to "snap" to where the player's arm is pointing in the middle of the stroke when the bar comes into view.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 6 years ago | (#23662055)

I like it; if I might offer a further suggestion, make the wiimote vibrate until the ghost-sword is back in position. If you've ever hit a full-tang sword (or an aluminum bat) against something metal, you'll know the feeling I'm talking about.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Scoth (879800) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654617)

I was pretty disappointed with the Wiimote controls for Twilight Princess since it was so highly hyped as "Control the sword with the remote!". Especially since I took glovepie and was able to write a script do direct swing inputs on Ocarina of Time. Swing the remote left, he swings the sword left. Swing it right, he swings right. Overhead swing, does an overhead swing of the sword. It makes the archery a little funny, but it was a lot more entertaining than just wiggling. I should get a youtube vid of that up...

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Jaqenn (996058) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654643)

There is a mod for Half-Life 2 where you use the Wii-Remote to control your character. I've never actually played the thing, so I can't speak for how well it works, but I understand that he uses motion controls to throw grenades and swing the crowbar.

The guy's home page seems to be down, though. It's normally found here: http://wii.hl2world.com/ [hl2world.com]

Here is an alternate: http://www.moddb.com/mods/8775/half-life-2-wiimote-mod [moddb.com]

Here is a YouTube video of the thing in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFa-Dusew0U [youtube.com]

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (3, Insightful)

Darth_brooks (180756) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654735)

The Wii is / was a gamble. Nintendo tried a new direction with controls and succeeded.

What they didn't do was invest heavily in the hardware. I agree with you in that the Wiimote, for all the potential it encompasses, sucks as a precision sensing device. The system doesn't even use a DVD drive, let alone a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive and the console's internal memory has been surpassed by most smart phones. All of those things were, however, cheap off the shelf hardware. Nintendo made money on a new console with new ideas, how much did Microsoft and Sony make on their glorified Xbox and PS2?

Building on that, making a game for the Wii is still a huge gamble. If you're a third party developing for the system, you have to develop for a platform that is still feeling out the general game controls. You can make the mistake of dumbing down the controls too much (e.g. almost every sports game so far) or you can make the controls silly, cryptic, and horribly delayed (MLB the bigs).

You've also got to balance gameplay factors. Maybe you can make an amazingly real swordplay engine using the wiimote, but I don't think that's going to make LEGO Star Wars that much more fun, especially since the master fencing / wii player demographic isn't all that big.

The Wii has been fun, it's been a nice way to get off the grinding of button smasher games and into something that's been both fun and different. I think the overall success of the console (Which from a tech standpoint is basically N64 V2.0) has opened the door for a Wii 2.0 that has the things that real gamers want.

Don't forget that Nintendo has carved out a nice slice of market for themselves. They've shown Mom and Dad that video games can be fun, now Nintendo is in a position to show that same segment that games can look as good as movies and have stories that are just as immersive.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (2, Informative)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656327)

Err, that's inaccurate, the Wii does use a standard dual-layer DVD drive, that's why modchips let you play burned games.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Darth_brooks (180756) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657185)

My bad. I was under the impression they were still using a fixed speed drive (like the GD-ROM) in lieu of a DVD drive. Either way, they went cheap by using DVD instead of a next-gen drive.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657351)

Did Microsoft also "go cheap" by using DVD?

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23658645)

Next-gen drive? I think the 360 is doing fine without a so-called next-gen drive. Hell, PCs have the most technologically advanced games, no contest, and we're still using DVDs on PC. I think saying they "went cheap by using DVD" is a bit of a stupid statement. The other components sure, but not the DVD drive.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23657473)

What the hell is a 'real' gamer? Perhaps you mean advanced gamer or some other term? The fact is - Nintendo realized that there were a ton of living, breathing, PAYING human beings that were not playing video games because they aren't 'real' gamers and the existing model only catered to said 'real' gamers. The Wii is a BRILLIANT concept and there are a lot of 'real' people buying it because it gives them exactly what they want.

Thats the sort of pig-headed, Phillistine ignorance I would expect from the lot of you - bleeding Masons.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23660637)

The system doesn't even use a DVD drive
Yes it does.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (3, Insightful)

JonathanBoyd (644397) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654753)

The trouble is that if you matched controls and actions 1:1, you'd be putting the game out of reach of people who have no talent for the physical game. One reason to play a sports game is to achieve things you cant necessarily do in real life. The instant you require real life skills, you're taken that away from people and they won't want to play your game. Obviously as you say,t he argument can be made that the actions aren't similar enough to real life to be immersive, but make it too similar and it wont be immersive because you'll suddenly have supposedly star players absolutely sucking because the gamer isn't a professional player themselves.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

rfunches (800928) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657895)

They could always give you an option to switch between "standard" Wiimote controls (what's currently used in most games) and "advanced" Wiimote controls (the more realistic controls). There's already different control mappings for different controllers, and different mappings for the Wiimote, so it shouldn't be that difficult to map the so-called "standard" and "advanced" controls.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

jalet (36114) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655105)

> and Metroid Prime as they actually used the aiming ability for it.

I don't know for RE4, but Metroid uses the nunchuk for the grapper and even if a button would do the same, after all it's just a video game, the way you launch the nunchuk seems really realistic for me.

BTW the Wii and Metroid in particular are what caused an old video-game addicted like me (during three years, 20 years ago) to become really addicted again. I couldn't stop to play until I had finished this damn game (33 hours, not so bad for an old man), and then I started again in hyper mode, then I finally realized what I was about to become again, and stopped altogether... Then I played Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart for a while, and I occasionally still do but not in a way that should be medically controlled :)

Now I'm only internet-addicted again, instead...

We bought the Wii for our daughters but I think it's me who uses it the most, I sincerely think the Wiimote has made playing to be fun again. I even want to bet that in five years from now all the consoles from the next generation will have a controller similar to or inspired from the Wiimote.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655187)

Why does absolutely no developer actually use the damn wii-control in the way people want/expect.

DragonQuest: Swords for the Wii. Your "slashes" translate to the 2D plane of the screen. up/down slashes are up/down on the screen. Horizontal are horizontal and diagonal are based on your direction given.

Go play that. Then come back here and remind us why it's better game play to just "shake = B". DQ:Swords isn't horrible, but I'll be damned if it's very easy to do a proper directional slash because what you *think* was a horizontal slash was actually a diagonal slash because you twisted the remote a little when you slashed, given the remote a different dimensional perspective. Of course it's natural to do that, but how in the world is a game developer going to be able to tell if person A will do it this way but person B will do it another?

Simple answer, they can't. The only possible use for real world translations of the Wii remote will have to incorporate some sort of limitation of the true translation to make sure when a person *thinks* they're trying to "slash up and down" the game responds accordingly. Not doing so just pisses a person off... like in DragonQuest (which unfortunately also comes with a mini-game that requires precision slashes to beat the clock. It'll frustrate you to no end.

Basically, as a developers try to give people more and more precision with their movements, they're taking away actual translation to the point that games are actually more fun with just "shaking = B" because it's a more accurate expected response.

The only games we can say successfully used wii-mote it were RE4 and Metroid Prime as they actually used the aiming ability for it. Still, no actual games exist that actually uses the motion to any great benefit.

That's contradictory. First, I've not played RE4:Wii, only Gamecube. But Metroid's use of the Wii controller was of great benefit to the game. Thus, there's at least one "actual" game that uses it. And according to you, there's a second, RE4.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

oracle128 (899787) | more than 6 years ago | (#23664299)

That's contradictory. First, I've not played RE4:Wii, only Gamecube. But Metroid's use of the Wii controller was of great benefit to the game. Thus, there's at least one "actual" game that uses it. And according to you, there's a second, RE4.
I'm on your side, but what he said wasn't contradictory. RE4 and MP3 primarily use the pointing (ie IR camera) function of the Wii remote, not the motion-sensitive (ie accelerometer) mechanics he was referring to at that part of the paragraph (even though at the start of the paragraph he was talking about Wiimote as a whole).

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 6 years ago | (#23667413)

RE4 and MP3 primarily use the pointing (ie IR camera) function of the Wii remote

Very true. However, it wasn't the primary aspect of Metroid that make this version (compared to the previous 2 on the Gamecube) better, IMHO. It was the interactive use of the Wii remote to grab, twist, and pull power conduits out of the wall to push, twist, and lock them back into place somewhere else (to solve a puzzle). And then there was the grappling hook which you yanked your nun-chuck back to rip the shield off an enemy. That was also very cool.

Those little touches really enhanced the game from being, "another typically good Metroid game" to being much more interactive or immersion. Of course, I do wish there was more of that kind of thing. I'd agree with saying that it wasn't enough. But I disagree that it wasn't of "great benefit" to the game, because it was.

RE4, I just didn't play on the Wii. I played it every which way on the gamecube (and loved it) but didn't feel like spending money on it again. I don't see much use of the accelerometer there. The game just wasn't designed for it (as it was designed before the Wii)

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655201)

Take this game and its pitching, from the video, - how would you expect to pitch with the wiimote. Obviously, how you pitch in real life. It would take the velocity of your swing, the twist of your hand, the motion and direction into account for a pitch. Instead we get the same fucking motion-equivalent-to-button-push bullshit. Watch the video, you pitch by tilting your hand down. Who the fuck pitches by tilting their hand down. The tilt down can easily be replaced by a button press, since they serve the same purpose. If you want to immerse people in the game with unique controls, why the hell don't the actually do it. How is tilting down a controller to pitch any more immersive than pressing a button.
Blame the dumbasses who pitched their wiimotes into their TVs while playing WiiSports for that.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (3, Insightful)

El Gigante de Justic (994299) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655215)

I can only assume you somehow forgot about all the idiots that broke their flat screen TVs by trying to pitch and swing as hard as they good in Wii Sports baseball.

  The main reasons you can't do true 1:1 action have already been laid out and are pretty obvious:
1) No physical feedback, other than maybe a vibration. There is no known technology that could actually give true force feedback for something like the WiiMote

2) By having the controls generalized, you don't actually have to be facing the TV straight on, which helps when you have 4 people playing. Also, in a confined space, it keeps people from whacking each other in multi-player.

3) 1:1 action would make it impossible for the physically infirm, or just physically clutzy to enjoy playing. Part of the point of Wii design was to simplify video games for new players, as opposed to something like the potentially intimidating PlayStation controller (10 buttons plus a control pad and two analog sticks which also double as buttons, and some buttons are pressure senstive)

4) 1:1 action would also be much more physically tiring and could eventually lead to a lot of physical ailments like tendonitis or joint injuries (such as the Wii-itis reportedly caused by Wii Sports Tennis not long after release). Since there isn't full weight resistance on the end of your arm, you can move your arm too quickly and are more likely to cause injuries.

5) To get perfect 1:1 action would likely have increased the cost of the system too much.
There are a few games that have gotten pretty close to 1:1 action, but generally in puzzle solving situations, not in fast paced action; a good example would be Zack and Wiki

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655231)

Okami makes good use with the painting, slashing, etc...

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

courtarro (786894) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655505)

Part of the problem is that the accelerometers in the Wiimote are set up to measure the movement of the remote, not its rotation. It's difficult, if not impossible, for the Wiimote to accurately detect fast rotation around its center of gravity, and this is one of the movements that would be very useful in some of your example scenarios.

Games like Mario Kart Wii measure "rotation" by the movement of gravity, but the user must hold the controller generally still or the overall acceleration will be affected by that movement rather than by gravity alone. When pitching, there are much stronger sources of acceleration (your arm), so accurately measuring the rotation as well (for, say, a curve ball) is impossible.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23655535)

The accelerometer in the wiimote will pick up motion drag over time. In the virtual environment lab at my university they counteract this error with an ultrasound system. I've seen sword type demos which exactly mimic where you are holding the remote as you describe. I presume these things will be coming to your home system in Wii-revision-2.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0, Flamebait)

croddy (659025) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656679)

Sounds like you might like driving with the Wii wheel.

(I mean, analog stick users will still drive circles around you, but at least you'll feel genuinely immersed in your defeat.)

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656845)

I suspect the reason Wii remote functionality has generally been limited to not much more than button presses is to maintain a level playing field.

If movements had to mirror actual movement games would have an added layer of complexity. Now games would have to be able to move more precisely, while still maintaining good timing. It's a lot like an amateur playing an FPS online and trying to be competitive. It would pretty much be hopeless, and discouraging for many people.

So Wii remote movements have been kept to simplistic shakes and waves to keep the learning curve down. There may be technological limitations, but I think the real limiting factor here is Nintendo's desire to keep the Wii approachable.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23656979)

Having played around with the Wii controls on a PC, the only precision you can get out of the wiimote requires you to use the infrared camera. The internal accelerometers just aren't precise enough (esp at high accelerations) to fully track the controller.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 6 years ago | (#23657861)

Why does absolutely no developer actually use the damn wii-control in the way people want/expect. Take Zelda - you expect Link to mimic your slashes in how you move the wiimote, instead you just shake it to get it to attack. It just serves as a funky way to push a button - shake = B.

That would be a bad thing. The problem of parrying has been gone into by a previous reply, but let's suppose that's been solved. We now run into a deeper problem: gamers suck at fencing. Perfect 1:1 mapping between the Wiimote and the sword might be implemented, but the player had better stop waving it about like a feather duster if he hopes to make a shish kebab of the monster. Throw the average gamer, however hardcore, into Hyrule expecting him to use a sword that way, and he'll die over and over again, then piss off and play TF2. That or you'll spend half the game teaching the player remedial swordplay.

Shake = button press is lazy and less than the Wiimote is capable of, but it's a step in the right direction at least. I'd be delighted simply if the game was able to distinguish between a slash from the left, from the right, a straight stab and an overhead chop; here's hoping some future built-from-the-ground-up Wii Zelda manages that.

Myself I'm amazed that The Godfather never got more love. That game had perfect motion control. Gunplay - well, you could free-aim with the pointer if you wanted, though it was better for fine-tuning the automatic aim for a kneecapping when you locked on. But that wasn't the big attraction. Melee combat - God, the violence. Fisticuffs with a motion sensor in each hand. Plus choking, throws (often through windows) and slams, and a couple of hundred execution styles. Every single act of brutal intimidation and mayhem flowed naturally, and the figure on screen followed the motion of the controls, not 1:1 but near enough for the illusion to hold. THAT is what the Wii needs to see more of. Bully tried, but didn't quite have the same natural feel to it.

The only games we can say successfully used wii-mote it were RE4 and Metroid Prime as they actually used the aiming ability for it.

I'm surprised at that myself. When I first heard of the controller, the motion-sensing games I thought would be fun all right, but I expected the pointer ability to be the main thing. I've never liked console FPS - not Goldeneye, not Halo. It's never as good as a mouse. But a Wiimote? That's a pointer I can work with all right. OK, so the Wii isn't the powerhouse the other two are... but there's a decade and more of FPS history in the world. How hard could it be to get something like Half-Life on here, dammit? Let's see... steer with analogue stick, aim and shoot with wiimote, and... oh yes. Make Gordon left handed... Then smash with nunchuck to swing crowbar!

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

SoulMan007 (1136759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23658681)

LostWinds, released on WiiWare a month or so back was a great example of using the wiimote in a successful way. For a 3-5 hour game, its easily one of my favorite games on the Wii to date.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (1)

muridae (966931) | more than 6 years ago | (#23658883)

Obviously, the reason people play games on the PS3 and 360 are because the motion controls are 1:1 and that makes the golf/baseball/football games so much better.

Oh, wait, guess not

The technology to use a Wii-mote sized object to get full 1:1 movement would have made the controllers prohibitively expensive. Gyroscope chips are about 10 times the price of a 3 axis accelerometers*. The Wii couldn't have been sold at that price.

In the end, it's a controller. The game is not real life, and we've settled for pushing buttons for so long now we all want to complain that the motion sensing isn't perfect? Even if it was perfect, then someone would complain that the graphics weren't, or the sound needs work, or the rules of baseball suck and why make a game out of it anyways.

footnote *: just from a quick googling of prices from the company that provides the Wii remotes accelerometer.

Re:Ugggggggggg WHY WILL NO ONE USE THE WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23661349)

You're right. I want a holodeck too!

Seriously (1)

omnomnomnom (1268422) | more than 6 years ago | (#23653963)

If only REAL baseball were that exiting...

Re:Seriously (1)

MrMadnutz (446737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655577)

Come on, it's not THAT "boaring".

"The video is quite long" (4, Funny)

MagicM (85041) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654047)

3 and a half minutes is long? If your attention span when watching video is less than 3 and a half minutes, why are you still reading this comment?

Re:"The video is quite long" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23655351)

> why are you still reading this comment?

Because I can read faster than 8.3 words per minute.

Re:"The video is quite long" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23655733)

"3 and a half minutes is long? If your attention span when watching video is less than 3 and a..."

I stopped reading right there.

noob.

Re:"The video is quite long" (1)

D Ninja (825055) | more than 6 years ago | (#23656067)

Some people just don't have great attention spans. Given the way technology is going these days and with constant updates flooding our senses, it's not wonder that...OOO SHINY!

Re:"The video is quite long" (1)

ShinyHat (879202) | more than 6 years ago | (#23660267)

It is too long, my boss might see me watching it. I don't think I can pass it off as an SDK Intro.

Re:"The video is quite long" (1)

shoemilk (1008173) | more than 6 years ago | (#23663227)

I had to re-read your comment three times. I kept getting bored and distracted halfway through...

Nice video (1)

Jack9 (11421) | more than 6 years ago | (#23654857)

The video is quite long and does a great job of showcasing the game's control set.

I wish all games had real previews like this one so I would feel better informed about buying it without having to see someone else playing it.

My wii is... (0)

JimboFBX (1097277) | more than 6 years ago | (#23655985)

seeing lots of use lately.

My Nintendo Wii has been gathering dust for months now.

Balls out boys! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23657047)

It's Wii strokin' time!
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