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Music Industry Tells Advertisers to Boycott "Pirate" Baidu

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the takes-one-to-know-one dept.

Media 206

An anonymous reader points to a story at PC Authority, which begins: "Music industry representatives have warned advertisers to stop supporting Baidu, China's largest search engine, because they believe it is encouraging music piracy. Baidu is the largest source of pirated music in China, according to the representatives, who describe the company as 'incorrigible.' The Chinese firm's music search engine is accessed through what is described as a prominent link on the company's home page."

cancel ×

206 comments

Don't all search engines do this? (5, Informative)

hostyle (773991) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679453)

OMG! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679523)

OMG, you got t3h first post and you write something relevant and on-topic, not an AC troll?

What a n00b! Next time, make certain your post includes: Something About Goatse (have you seen that film? Cameron Pwndarse is great!), p1st fr05t, or a little ASCII art man with a big willy (reminding us that Slashdot suXx0rz).

Seriously mate, you'd better be careful, the question of trolling Slashdot is the inalienable perogative of your working Anonymous Cowards. What's the use of us sitting up all night, waiting for the next submission. If a member jumps in before you and doesn't even post a troll?

As a member of the Amalgamated Union of Arseholes, Loudmouths, Cowards and Other Trolling Persons I order you to stop getting first posts, and to stop getting first posts NOW.

Re:OMG! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679681)

His post's got Prince in it. That counts as goatse x 2 in my book.

Re:OMG! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680063)

Fuck off Anonymous Coward!

Re:OMG! (3, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680267)

Mod parent +1 Ironic!

Re:OMG! (3, Funny)

hostyle (773991) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680057)

Re:OMG! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680365)

Oh, my eyes,
My brain,
Think of the children,
No, wait a minute,
Not right now.

I must be grue here

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (2, Funny)

thermian (1267986) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679563)

most useful /. link ever....

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (3, Funny)

dintech (998802) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679611)

Except of course that it's Prince.

Only on /. (0, Offtopic)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679799)

Only here, this would be modded insightful instead of funny.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679843)

Well then replace prince with your artists of choice and you set, I thought it was rather obvious.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (1)

dintech (998802) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679889)

You're missing the point of the joke.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (2, Funny)

mk_is_here (912747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679853)

Still looks handy to him, that he could compile a mail list to send cease-and-desist letters.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679901)

Thanks for the heads up. I almost clicked on the link(shudder).

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (5, Informative)

ironfrost (674081) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679625)

But Google doesn't set up a page with links to searches like that for the top 500 tracks [baidu.com] (as well as other selections by genre) and link to that page from their homepage.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679979)

But Google doesn't set up a page with links to searches like that for the top 500 tracks (as well as other selections by genre) and link to that page from their homepage.

That's why i want my adverts displayed on Baidu's top 500 tracks page.

That's What Google Hack is For (4, Insightful)

aplusjimages (939458) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680089)

In a way isn't that why Google created Google Hack [google.com] , to show sites, what content is floating out there, so they can secure it or pursue those who let their content sit out there for free.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (4, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680113)

Warner Music representative Monica Lee claimed at a press conference in Beijing yesterday that about 80 per cent of potential music industry revenue in China is lost to piracy.
I'm surprised that music companies make 20% of their entirely theoretical "potential music industry revenue".

Counterfeits and piracy are a cultural norm in most Asian countries.
Over there, the CD is an advertisement for the tour.
AFAIK, nobody actually expects to make money from CD sales in Asia.

So what if the search engine has a MP3 search page?
Like the counterfeit goods, the MP3s are still there, even if nobody is pointing you directly to them.

Why is this bad? (2, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680361)


By linking it to Baidu, now they can advertise their music to a larger audience. I don't see why any sane musician would be against this.

Re:Don't all search engines do this? (1)

Andrzej Sawicki (921100) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679743)

You can ditch the last quotation mark in that command. Thanks, btw.

cool. (0, Troll)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679455)

me chinese

me pirate too

me download moosic from Baidu

Re:cool. (5, Interesting)

dintech (998802) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679641)

The music industry works completely differently in China and everyone knows it. Especially the musicians. They know the only way to make money is through sponsored live performances and product endorsements. No-one expects anyone to pay for recorded music because it's completely impossible to stop piracy.

Yes, yes. Don't feed the trolls. But if the article is a troll in itself, why not?

Re:cool. (4, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679877)

Maybe someone can verify that, but I read that in some areas (South America? Africa?) copying is so widespread that artists can't really make a living off their music. So what they do is they make praise songs about some politicians and other celebrities who pay them for the song.

I could see that work, if the song is good. Then again, would you want to see the new smash hit "Bush is great"? :)

Re:cool. (5, Interesting)

psychodelicacy (1170611) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680047)

Interesting - in many ways, we're seeing a return to medieval ideas of productivity and "intellectual property". Payment comes from a wealthy patron, not a wider audience. Works are distributed to anyone who has the means to copy them. Anonymity is not uncommon, especially for more controversial writings. Music earns money in performance. Re-working other people's material is not plagiarism, but a means of honouring one's predecessors, learning one's craft and encouraging creativity. I think we could learn a lot from people like Chaucer and Dante.

Re:cool. (1)

aplusjimages (939458) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680107)

Re-working other people's material is not plagiarism, but a means of honouring one's predecessors, learning one's craft and encouraging creativity.

You bring up a good point to the piracy argument that I haven't seen debated before. I guess in the end it would be a waste of time because it would see the same fate as the rendition before it.

Re:cool. (5, Informative)

sticks_us (150624) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680129)

Opportunist: in some areas (South America? Africa?) copying is so widespread that artists can't really make a living off their music

It's that way in most of the world, really. I'd bet 99% of all musicians don't make a living off their music; they may look cool when they're playing in their bar band on Saturday night, but they're right back in the cubicle (or fishing boat, depending on your profession) with the rest of us on Monday.

We see and read about the rich musicians at the very top all the time, but they're a miniscule fraction of the entire music playing populace. It's obvious that the organizations responsible for all the copyright bruhaha are interested in protecting those few moneymakers at the top of the pile.

psychodelicacy: Re-working other people's material is not plagiarism, but a means of honouring one's predecessors, learning one's craft and encouraging creativity

This is a good point. The definition of plagiarism is subjective and like all things settled by litigation, usually favors the people with the most expensive lawyers (i.e. the top media/communications companies). It's been that way in pop music forever (a few good examples can be found in the book, Confessions of a Record Producer [amazon.com] ) -- one only has to look at the R&B (Black) music scene in the 1950s-70s to see how many ideas were illegally swiped and resold by people like Pat Boone.

Re:cool. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680297)

I think the song title you meant to type was "Smash & Hit Bush. Great!"

Re:cool. (2, Interesting)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679895)

The music industry in China is quite sensible, music which is broadcast and free to anyone to listen to, they cannot also charge for (unless you want to pay for the physical CD etc ...)

We have this strange notion that music can be given away for free but is somehow also not public and can still be sold?

It's a bit like a book publisher letting anyone have a free copy of a book then complaining when people do not buy it

Re:cool. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680019)

It is not given away free. It is a paid performance - the radio station that you are listing to has paid for it on your behalf. That royalty fee was paid on the agreement that the radio station only plays it to you once. If they play it a second time, they pay a second time. Just because you don't know that, doesn't make it yours.

Re:cool. (2, Informative)

mark_hill97 (897586) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680065)

Except the radio stations don't pay for it, they sometimes even get paid to put certain tracks on because the music execs quite rightly figured out nobody wants to pay for music that they have never heard of before.
Or at least that's how it is right now, lately the RIAA has been pushing to make them pay up. (source) [latimes.com]

Re:cool. (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680331)

I thought that radio stations had to pay license/broadcast fees and that would cover the whole music playing thing (depending on the license)?

Re:cool. (1)

KGIII (973947) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680411)

They do, they are called royalties I suppose. One can see a wee bit about BMI's here [bmi.com] .

Why would we want to pay for low quality records? (4, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680381)


It's not that nobody is willing to pay for recorded music, it's that the product that American record companies tend to offer is crap. 5 minute tracks, usually they aren't all that good, I'll be glad when the current music industry falls so we can focus on the art again.

Music is not a product, it's art. A true masterpiece is priceless and will be paid for. An artist should get paid when CDs are being sold, however when music is shared thats advertising.

People aren't going to buy your albums or go to your concerts if they don't know who you are!

which one is that prominent link? (5, Funny)

gyepi (891047) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679457)

I only see scribbles.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (4, Funny)

arotenbe (1203922) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679479)

Perhaps the one titled "MP3" in English?

Re:which one is that prominent link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679999)

"in English"

Wow.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (0, Troll)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679489)

no, china does not use the latin alphabet. you egotistical unintelligent american nationalism humping christian you.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (1)

aero2600-5 (797736) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679503)

Someone mod the parent as funny before too many more people miss the joke. One of the current replies to the parent is an idiot, and the other has no idea what sarcasm is. Discuss.

Aero

Re:which one is that prominent link? (4, Funny)

arotenbe (1203922) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679517)

I hope I know which one is me.

See, I do I know what sarcasm is!

Unless I was the other one...

ERROR: Recursion depth exceeds 256 calls.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (2, Funny)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679519)

Someone mod the parent as funny before too many more people miss the joke. One of the current replies to the parent is an idiot, and the other has no idea what sarcasm is. Discuss.

Aero
First you tell me you'll run on my laptops 945g igp, and now you tell me that it's all a joke? fuck you.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (5, Funny)

egilhh (689523) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679549)

I don't even see the scribbles anymore.
All I see now is blonde, brunette, redhead...

Re:which one is that prominent link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679785)

I don't even see the scribbles anymore.
All I see now is Rock, R&B, Country...
Fixed that for you.

Re:which one is that prominent link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680041)

Re:which one is that prominent link? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680357)

Awesome idea :)

Now I can easily listen to Jihzhong Serve The Country, and "Sorry I Love You" without paying!!

Re:which one is that prominent link? (2, Funny)

psychodelicacy (1170611) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680061)

Woah - I'd never imagined a /. user being illiterate... ;)

Re:which one is that prominent link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680087)


I don't even see the scribbles anymore... I just see "blonde, brunette, redhead..."

Re:which one is that prominent link? (2, Funny)

tristian_was_here (865394) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680353)

You mean there is no Engrish version of Baidu?

Who cares? (5, Insightful)

arotenbe (1203922) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679465)

Why would advertisers care? They don't have any music being pirated (or obtained legally, for that matter).

Maybe they should have sent Baidu a DMCA notice instead. </sarcasm>

Re:Who cares? (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679817)

That was pretty much my first reaction too. The RIAA doesn't care if my business goes under due to someone undermining it (and rightfully so, why should they?), so why the hell should I care for their biz?

Is the search engine relevant for my business or not? Does it bring me customers or not? First of all, does it have users or not? That's what counts.

Whether that search engine is a haven for copyright infringement, questionable porn or DIY bomb making, do I care? If that's what brings them users and me visitors (and customers), more power to them.

Hmm? Moral? Hey, I'm pretending here to be a corporation out to make a profit, stop pestering me with things that ain't in my dictionary!

Re:Who cares? (1)

hvm2hvm (1208954) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679973)

Baidu just offers their users something they want so they get more hits. That's exactly what capitalism is all about. Those bullshit companies that make all those commercial songs are complete hypocrites.

Musicians WANT advertising just as corporations do (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680393)


And Baidu is offering what seems to be free advertising. I hope Google copies this idea, because there is a fortune to be made by offering us the ability to search Google for music and buy concert tickets in a few clicks.

Thanks! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679475)

Didn't know about this until today, thanks RIAA! Seems you're doing more to help piracy than hurt it. Bash the (pretty f'ing bad comparably) napster, which lead eventually to the better protocols today, without which wider scale piracy wouldn't even be able to the masses! Then you give these mediums free advertising by screaming about how easy it is to get what you want to hear without dealing with extortion rate pricing. (Yeah yeah news groups, xdcc, etc... but your average joe can handle a torrent a lot easier than that)

I, for one, am SHOCKED! (0, Flamebait)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679477)

A Chinese company that has little regard for copyright? This is an unexpected occurrence.

Why didn't the FTC convict Sony? (5, Interesting)

freedom_india (780002) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679493)

Am thoroughly disgusted by the illegal activities of these music companies and their hypocrisy.
Sony infected many computers with a dangerous trojan, which would have sent any hacker to 40 years in Prison, and they escaped conviction or even a fine.
RIAA has been ruled against many times in court and ordered to pay lawyers fees to a poor single mom, and still they are loose: No arrest, no seizure of their equipment, etc.
MediaSentry and other RIAA hackers violate state laws in Montana, California, Texas and a host of states and yet continue to operate even though they are illegal. None has been sued yet and their findings are valid in a court of law: Its like a thief acting as a witness to a houseowner against another thief.
RIAA would be happy if the whole internet shut down tomorrow but they still can produce music at zero cost and sell it for $29.99 an album.

The Baidu search engine should show its middle finger publicly at RIAA and also sue them for defamation.
 

Re:Why didn't the FTC convict Sony? (1)

flayzernax (1060680) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679527)

Don't you get it without the intertubes the RIAA wouldnt have a JOB

They are suing because if they do no SUE....

they wont get payed...

They are all lawayers....

lawyers starve in a perfect world...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLERCOPTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:Why didn't the FTC convict Sony? (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679829)

I'd sue for slander and loss of earnings.

The amount for loss of earnings? Ask the RIAA where they pull their numbers out from, I'd reach for the same place.

But I wouldn't use a lot of lube...

Thanks, music industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679541)

Awesome. Now that they've called this to my attention, I'm going to start using it.

How Do I Submit My Tracks? (4, Insightful)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679547)

Any Chinese speakers here?

I searched for my own music [geometricvisions.com] on Baidu, and it didn't find it. How can I submit it?

I clicked all the links on the homepage, and hovered my mouse over all the links on the result page, and couldn't find anything that looked like a submission form.

I'd love it if everyone in China were to download my compositions - they are all Creative Commons-licensed.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (4, Funny)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679577)

I'd love it if everyone in China were to download my compositions - they are all Creative Commons-licensed.
That's no fun. Tell you what, release something with a draconian license then I might download your material.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679579)

I would imagine a lot of western music is censored because it would corrupt the mind of young people (i.e. doesn't sing the praises of the communist party)

In fact, I'm intrigued as to what music under RIAA jurisdiction would be acceptable?

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (5, Informative)

SensiMillia (217366) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679737)

I'm living in Beijing and, as far as I can find out, there is not much censorship on music (most Chinese can not understand English lyrics anyway).

Unfortunatly the selection of music sold is quite limited. The recent hit parade and old time classics are readily available in the CD shops or on the street. (all are copies, legal CD's are very hard to come by)

But then again, you are able to find just about everything on the internet. Ting (Mandarin chinese for 'to hear') is one of the better MP3 sites, indexing thousands of MP3's in a wide range of styles which can be freely listened to online.
(http://www.ting-mp3.com)

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1, Informative)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680115)

OK, thanks for qualifying that with "I live in Beijing". Living in Beijing, I can understand why you're so ignorant (it's like living in New York City in America, it's at sea regarding the rest of the country). There's plenty of censorship in music, it's just because you never see it (because it's censored, duh). One reason that music isn't so popular in China is due to its bland uniformity...the Party likes inoffensive drivel like love songs, not Rage Against the Machine or Dead Kennedys. Even "punk" bands like Brain Failure toe the line. Trust me, music is censored just like everything else.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

kipman725 (1248126) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680183)

and also that chinese people for the most part like manufactured pop even if you play them the alternative. Althought in an argument over who's music is better there is usualy quite quickly the admision that westen music is more complex and varied. But on the plus side the indoctronation into manufactured pop only apears temporary upon the transfer of my 80GB odd of music.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

mei_mei_mei (890405) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680215)

Gotta love what it says at the bottom of their homepage of links to mp3s: "Copyright(2001-2007) All Rights Reserved"

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680375)

Not much in terms of recorded music, but live shows get censored all the time. Don't let places like Kolegas fool you, the bands that play there may not be family-friendly but they're vetted to make sure they're politically harmless.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680029)

They have mtv in China too dickhead

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679599)

Any Chinese speakers here?
Certainly not. I use only Belizean speakers as they have the most resonant sound reproduction. With solid gold speaker cables.

</audiophile>

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

ironfrost (674081) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679661)

What exactly did you search for - I just entered your name and your music seems to be available [baidu.com] .

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

ironfrost (674081) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679733)

The AC sibling says that Baidu MP3 IP filters so you can't see anything from outside China, so here's a screenshot [photobucket.com]

Hey Thanks! I appreciate your help (0, Offtopic)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679867)

Someday I'm gonna be a famous composer - I've been studying piano intensively for quite some time now, with the aim of going to music school to study composition.

I want to write symphonies someday!

I've been a coder for twenty years. I have grown weary of it.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679685)

you don't "submit" your music to Baidu, as laxly enforced as Chinese copy right law, openly hosting pirated music on servers of one of the most well-known internet companies with extensive business and financial connections to the US is still not something most sane people would do. I'd tell you, Baidu people aren't crazy. What Baidu provides is a mp3 search engine, you type in what you want, click search, Baidu will return a list of mp3 file hosted on myriad of other often very small Chinese sites (these sites are too numerous, too Chinese and too obscure to attract attention from major record labels), you click on the mp3 link (or wmp, or real, or some other format), you can either listen to it in the browser or you can save the file to your machine.

BTW, one of the reason Baidu kicks Google's ass in Chinese market is the mp3 search engine, for music lovers who don't want to pay for their hobbies, Baidu is simply irreplaceable. Yahoo China also provides similar mp3 search functions in their search engine, although the size of their mp3 index is far smaller than Baidu's.

Another BTW, Baidu will check your ip when you search music, if you were from outside China, too bad, you search will return nothing.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680067)

Don't Chinese people feel humiliated because their largest technology company helps citizens to violate IPR laws? I know they feel ashamed, otherwise they would not check your IP. This way, they can hide their actions from the outside world.

No, this is a service (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680093)

that they give to their citizens.

you in the US think of Tibet as sovereign. China doesn't. It blocks the US telling its people otherwise.

RIAA thinks that any use of "their" IP without paying through the nose (and assorted orifices) is theft, so China, as a friend of the US, blocks the US from seeing it.

Where does shame come into it?

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680371)

music lovers who don't want to pay for their hobbies, Baidu is simply irreplaceable.

Hellooooooo Seeqpod. [seeqpod.com]

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

Dr. Cody (554864) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679821)

Perhaps it wasn't sufficiently terrible.

In addition to passing the GDP of several Western European countries, China has likewise far surpassed the shear awfulness of their taste in American music. A trip to a record store [bin in a market stall] in Shanghai is like investigating that giant swirling mass of accumulated garbage they've been talking about in the Eastern Pacific Ocean.

Re:How Do I Submit My Tracks? (1)

torelizer (1303089) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680441)

How can I submit it? [...] I'd love it if everyone in China were to download my compositions - they are all Creative Commons-licensed.
I'm in a band that publishes music under Creative Commons as well, and we see a good amount of downloads from Baidu in our statistics...so I think I can help you:) Well...translate your web site in chinese and they will just find you. Seriously. We did it [www.yue.it] and it was a good idea, at least for the downloads... OTOH we get a lot of (probably) spam in chinese, but we just pretend those strange ideograms are love messages from our fans and forget about it:)

Money by advertising (5, Insightful)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679575)

AFAIK, artists may be able to earn more money by putting their music to download for free on a website with advertising, than by going through a record company. When will the record companies finally realize they need to adapt?

It's not that simple (5, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679775)

It's not that simple.

For a start, advertising doesn't really pay big bucks any more. We've had companies flop during the peak of advertising money in the dot-con years with that model, what makes you think it's more viable now?

A quick search says that the Cost Per Click (i.e., what the advertising companies pay) can be as low as 1 cent per click. After the ad provider takes their share, it's even less money for the site carrying the ads. And that's per _click_. So if every single person downloading your music were to actually click a banner per song downloaded (fat chance) and the ad provider gave you the full cent (fat chance), you'd need to sell some thousands of songs per month just to pay for your hosting costs. Probably more, since you use bandwidth too.

Pay per view, even less. If you go really per view, expect it to be small fractions of a cent.

Remember, you're not Penny Arcade or PvP Online as a musician. You're not going to make a new song per day, and serve an ad or two with each one.

The RIAA members also provide one valuable service: they create a scarcity via marketing. There are hundreds of thousands of girls who can sing just as well as Britney Spears, and don't look much worse. But there's only one Britney Spears. And boy band members are even more dime a dozen, and chosen mostly on how well they look (i.e. how wet would they get a 16 year old girl seeing them on stage.) Not on any skills in composing that music or expressing anything profound. There are a few tens of million of young guys who'd be not much worse than, say, Backstreet Boys, and some would probably be only better.

So while it's easy to say "OMG, musician X is only getting a pittance out of the CD sales, and gets all the money out of concerts anyway," the more cruel reality is that musician X would be yet another _nobody_ without the publisher. Maybe a thousand people would know about his music, and maybe a dozen of them could be arsed to show up at a concert.

To put it otherwise, it's an economy of massive overproduction. If left to the free market, you'd be about as able to make a money out of music as you'd make money out of your farm in 1929. When there's 10 times more produced than anyone needs, and the products are perfectly interchangeable, the price doesn't just go 10 times lower. It spirals down to the point where nobody can make a living out of it.

Now I'm not saying it's necessarily the best model for society, but that's how it works.

And the moral of the story is: well, maybe a better model can be found, but it will have to be a better one than, basically, "but I want them to work for me for a tenth of a cent in ads."

Re:It's not that simple (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680179)

> When there's 10 times more produced than anyone needs, and the products are perfectly interchangeable, the price doesn't just go 10 times lower.
> It spirals down to the point where nobody can make a living out of it.

And that, is called a commodity [wikipedia.org] . Your view assumes that people should be able to make a living out of something beyond its real economic value. What does this add of value for society or for any of the individual parties? Nothing.

What you fail to mention is that it's more than just "marketing". The music business needs to do more than promote the acts it wants to push, it needs to actively sabotage and destroy the competition.

It is like the inflation added to diamonds by De Beers "marketing" (destruction of low value diamonds). All you are doing is pumping the price of an artificially rarified stock by destroying the surplus (eg crop burning, diamond warehousing, attacking the free market in music). To me that goes against the grain of free market principles.

Musicians, try your live music in Second Life (1)

Morgaine (4316) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680261)

Your story of depression for musicians is an artifact of not embracing new technologies and markets, but instead trying to sell your music within the framework set by the music industry. That approach is guaranteed to fail as it's stacked against independents. But there are alternatives.

In the virtual world of Second Life, many hundreds of musicians are performing live in 1-hour slots in front of audiences of up to 100 people (a system scalability limit), and that happens throughout the day, every day, in thousands of venues. It not only gives them exposure, but it also brings in hard cash through the tip jar and from direct music music sales. (Second Life's currency is convertible to and from US dollars.) And they make a living from it.

So things are not as bad as you portray them, as long as a musician is willing to leave the normal music industry channels and is not afraid to try something new.

Re:Money by advertising (2, Interesting)

arctanx (1187415) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680049)

It depends on the company. To select a couple of arbitrary examples, CD Baby [cdbaby.com] and Magnatune [magnatunes.com] are more modern, Internet-centric record companies. Magnatune even encourage you to share copies of the music with your friends because they know you could pirate it anyway.

Most importantly, these companies actually sell their music by advertising the fact that they pay the musicians well. Honest people like me are interested in that. We know how to get music for free if want it.

So it's not all doom and gloom -- some artists and record companies are adapting. By and large, the really popular artists are with the big labels who are pushing their trojans and DRM and other nonsense. It's up to the consumer to make the market work.

ARRGGGH THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679591)

HOW in the FUCK do u use NESTED CONDITIONAL LOOPS & BRANCHING in C shell? fuck fuck fuck!!
--
If you had signatures disabled right now, then you wouldn't have to read this.

Re:ARRGGGH THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!! (1)

Heembo (916647) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679929)

use java

I looked at the home page and (4, Funny)

maroberts (15852) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679593)

..it was all Greek to me.

Oh wait...

Hey... maybe they're right. (1)

Ethan Allison (904983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679601)

Hey recording industry guys, I'm going to give you a chance here. Tell us what's going on. Everything. What's the prominent link here? How are they encouraging piracy? Specifically. What EXACTLY are they doing? Tell us. Show us a legitimate argument, and I'll treat you with the respect that you deserve, however much that may be, and while I can't speak for the rest of Slashdot, I can only ask them that they do the same.

You're all but hated here, but I think you deserve one honest chance to prove your credibility – as long as you have that unproven credibility to begin with – to people who know the internet, and how and where it encourages and discourages piracy, better than damn near anyone else. So take it.

Re:Hey... maybe they're right. (1)

pla (258480) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679767)

Tell us what's going on.

The RIAA had a hissy-fit over a search engine helping its users find what they want.


What's the prominent link here?

Umm... The only thing on the entire page in English, that says "MP3"? ;-)


How are they encouraging piracy? Specifically. What EXACTLY are they doing?

Here you ask a "hard" question. Does a search engine facilitate/encourage piracy (or other crimes) merely by allowing users to search the web for topics some people might not like? By analogy, if a stranger pulls to the side of the road and asks how to get to Walmart, have you "encouraged" murder because he goes there, buys a gun, and kills his wife with it?

I think any sane human would say "no". The courts have so far tended to favor that sane answer, though a few notable counterexamples have come up (with Napster as the most obvious).

Re:Hey... maybe they're right. (2, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679855)

You have to admit, though, that Napster's (almost) only reason to exist was exactly that, to faciliate the exchange of music. So I can see the logic.

I can't see the logic in a search engine whose primary goal is to let you find whatever you're looking for. Yes, people will (ab)use it to look for illegal material or to find a source to acquire goods illegally. That's a given. But that is not the main reason why people go there and use it.

Now, one may argue that a lot of people use any P2P technology to exchange copyrighted material and engage in copyright infringment. But that's not the underlying reason for P2P to exist. Currently, I am hosting about 50 Gigs of software that is available through torrent from my server. All of it is legally allowed to exist there and be shared with anyone who wants it. It ranges from Linux distributions to freeware tools (most of them under the GPL or similar licenses), a fair lot of free music and even a few MMORPG clients (that have been released into torrent distribution by their creators). Now, I don't really play and I don't even like all the music I host, but I see that as a service for those that want to use torrents to get those goods, and I want to prove that there is a legal reason for P2P to exist.

Music is already free. (1, Interesting)

politicsapocalypse (1296149) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679605)

You may be interested in the album I just recently released. It is available free to download. Licensed with the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Licence. This licence lets you use this music for commercial products or make remixes or other derivative works, so long as you give credit to the original artists. You can download the whole 11 track album at no cost at our website. We are also doing a name your own price CD (starting at cost price). http://www.politicsapocalypse.com/ [politicsapocalypse.com]

Re:Music is already free. (2, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679725)

Why would I download your free album legit from your site when I can get a pirated copy on Baidu? Don't you know the whole point of downloading stuff on the internet is to stick it to the man?

Re:Music is already free. (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679865)

Umm... you already stick it to the man (in this case, the RIAA) when you use music that's released under the Creative Common license. Better yet, when you use this music in a movie or other works to make it popular.

Do you have a faint idea how much good music costs you for a movie? Now imagine the studios finding out that they could easily save a lot of money by just including the name of the artist in the credits (i.e. what they do anyway)...

Re:Music is already free. (1)

grainofsand (548591) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680095)

Interestingly, the website is blocked in China and only accessible via a proxy.
 

They're not doing it right (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679709)

The RIAA should tell songwriters to name all their songs with "Tiananmen" somewhere in the title. Problem solved!

Re:They're not doing it right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23679905)

Nice try, but Tiananmen Square in Beijing is a major tourist attraction and a site of patriotic pilgrimage (because of the Mao Zedong mausoleum), so the authorities would be quite happy with it. More effective would be to put "six four" in all the titles
--
hmm, twice 23, reversed -- Hail Eris!

Cut-throat business... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#23679805)

Why would advertisers care?
They want to advertise their product to as wide an audience as possible, and offering free MP3 downloads is a very good way to attract an audience.
Why should the owners of the businesses paying for advertising from Baidu put the interest of another business (the RIAA) before their own? That's completely ridiculous, and incredibly arrogant.

How about the RIAA forego what's in their interests, and help the business of companies like Allofmp3 and backbone providers..

How much money do you think the tier1 carriers make every year due to the amount of warez being transmitted over their lines? How dare the RIAA get in the way of their right to make profit.

Care? Why would advertisers *listen*? (1)

Capt. Skinny (969540) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680133)

Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone explain why the music industry is in any position to "warn" advertisers to stop supporting another company?

It seems to me that the advertisers have the upper hand - they are a customer to the record labels, after all. Wouldn't the music industry's demands be akin to the convenience store down the street warning me not to buy milk from the grocery store? Sure, they could tell me that my business is no longer welcome if I ever to buy milk at the grocery store, but doing so would not be in their best interest.

[Cue sarcastic comments about RIAA arrogance...]

moron boycotting corepirate nazis' country store (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23680075)

it's a challenge to be sure. they have their tentacles into almost everything we use/need, but we're good folks & up to the task in order to survive. see you on the other side of it. we're thinking that the air force brass may have gotten canned for refusing to continue to participate in the murderous philistine crusaders' unholy wars/land grab. we're also noting that the manufactured 'weather' is having disastrous results that would make further participation in that endeavor akin to domestic terrorism. the lights are coming up all over now. conspiracy theorists are being vindicated. some might choose a tin umbrella to go with their hats. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1216734813&hl=en&topic=n
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/29amnesty.html?hp
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/02/nasa.global.warming.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/05/severe.weather.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/02/honore.preparedness/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?em&ex=1212638400&en=744b7cebc86723e5&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/index.html

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=weather+manipulation&btnG=Search
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying

dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available. 'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet, & by your behaviors. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable. some of US should consider ourselves somewhat fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc.... as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis. concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order. 'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continue on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US. gov. bush denies health care for the little ones;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html

& pretending that it isn't happening here;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece
all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

(yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles. talk about reverse polarity;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece

Music industry to adapt? (4, Interesting)

viking80 (697716) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680119)

Multiple comments here on /. tells the music industry to adapt to the 'new world'. This is like throwing a lobster in boiling water, and telling it to adapt.

The business model for the music industry has always been:
1. Buy expensive recording and vinyl pressing machines.
(The price on this equipment gives them a de facto monopoly on production)
2. Pay musicians a song for their work (maybe this is where the expression comes from?)
3. Sell disks for as much PROFIT as possible

In the 'new world' there is no monopoly and ipso facto no music industry.

Streisand effect anyone? (1)

Xzerix (977030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680141)

Can't say I'd have thought to use a chinese search engine otherwise

Finally! Something useful on slashdot! (1)

Abuzar (732558) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680151)

Thanx for the link!! Kind of ironic for a country known for censorship.... who cares, keep dl'ing! :-)

as the saying goes: (1)

doomedpr0digy (1143953) | more than 6 years ago | (#23680269)

its al chinese to me...
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