Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

IBM Water-Cools 3D Multi-Core Chip Stacks

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the 3d-cubes-are-the-best-kind-of-cubes dept.

Supercomputing 170

An anonymous reader writes "Water cooling will enable multi-core processors to be stacked into 3D cubes, according to IBM's Zurich Research Laboratory which is demonstrating three-dimensional chip stacks. By stacking memory chips between processor cores IBM plans to multiply interconnections by 100 times while reducing their feature size tenfold. To cool the stack at a rate of 180 watts per layer, water flows down 50-micron channels between the stacked chips. Earlier this year, the same group described a copper-plate water cooling method for IBM's Hydro-Cluster supercomputer. The Zurich team predicts high-end IBM multicore computers will migrate from the copper-plate water-cooling-method to the 3-D chip-stack in five to 10 years." Reader Lilith's Heart-shape adds a link to the BBC's article on these internally-cooled chips.

cancel ×

170 comments

it won't be AI until it's got (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23681927)

beer cooling

Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23681987)

You don't want to cool with alcohol. The boiling point of most alcohols is between 60 and 80 degrees Celsius, as opposed to water's boiling point of 100 degrees Celsius.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682027)

I thought you would want something with a low boiling point so you can move the heat as far away from the source as possible?
you just need to use more of it to ensure it doesnt boil dry.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682069)

penis

Basic Physics of Thermoconduction (5, Informative)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682073)

I thought you would want something with a low boiling point so you can move the heat as far away from the source as possible?
Something with a high specific heat is what's needed, which is why water is good. You can have any boiling point you like, depending on what pressure you apply to the liquid (boiling point is when vapour pressure = atmospheric pressure). If you are going to compress and decompress something to drive heat away, then use a gas.

Re:Basic Physics of Thermoconduction (1)

snl2587 (1177409) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683267)

Of course, all of this is assuming this is some extremely pure water. Otherwise fouling will occur, and in 50 micron tubes I'm fairly certain it will be hard to clean.

Re:Basic Physics of Thermoconduction (1)

networkconsultant (1224452) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683509)

Hey, this might be the first instance where a cup holder on a computer for coffee is warranted, in fact with this technology we could get super computing and coffee in the same place :D

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (4, Informative)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682121)

Only if you are making a wet/dry system, such as one that relies on phase change. If that's the case, it's refrigerant you want, and not alcohol (there is no real benefit to the vaporization unless the pressure swing is high). If you are doing closed loop all liquid, you want something that stays a liquid since vapor can't carry as much energy as liquid can given the same space. See automotive liquid cooling and refrigeration phase-change cooling for plenty of high-efficiency examples, none of which use alcohol or any similar substance.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682167)

Cool, thanks for the clarifications.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682217)

Propane works well for this. and YES there used to be guys that did their own R12 old car ac repair by adding propane to the AC system.

It works, but is one hell of a fire hazard.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682529)

the new R600a gas is Isobutane, also very flammable, but it's being used in many commercial fridges.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682161)

I figure that when it comes to vaporization, less is better. Vaporized coolant has to be contained, lest it condense in inconvenient places (like your mobo's capacitors).

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

cool_arrow (881921) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682419)

I think a cooling system using vaporization would most likely be a closed system.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682485)

Actually, what you want is a fluid (fluid!=liquid) with as high a specific heat capacity as possible, while maintaining an acceptable viscosity in the expected thermal operating range. Mercury would actually be awesome in this application, but of course, its "dirty" so we couldn't have that.

Re:Alcohol cooling is a bad idea. (1, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683723)

What i don't get is why not use helium [wikipedia.org] since it can cool to such low temperatures and knowing these chips are going to get super hot. It seems to me you would want to drop the temps more than water cooling would to keep performance high. And it isn't like money is an object for these systems,after all we are talking "big iron" after all. But that is my 02c,YMMV

It's quite the opposite (3, Informative)

mangu (126918) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682101)

You don't want to cool with alcohol. The boiling point of most alcohols is between 60 and 80 degrees Celsius, as opposed to water's boiling point of 100 degrees Celsius.

Actually boiling removes much more heat than conduction. This is the principle used in heat pipes [wikipedia.org] , where you want a low boiling temperature, because that will be the temperature in the hot side.

Re:It's quite the opposite (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682295)

Don't you have to conduct the heat to the liquid before it boils?

Re:It's quite the opposite (1)

nospam007 (722110) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682941)

IBM has had water-cooled systems since the seventies at least, so how is this news?

Re:It's quite the opposite (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683023)

Because it's in 3D chips? One of the main issues with layering up circuits like that is heat dissipation.

3D cubes are nice, I guess (4, Funny)

krog (25663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23681985)

But they're really gonna rev up performance once they move to 4-cornered time cubes [timecube.com] .

Re:3D cubes are nice, I guess (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682515)

Right. But they're working on it.

Imagine "SIMULTANEOUS 4 DAY CREATION in 1 Earth rotation!" "NO GOD EQUATES" that!!!

I hear IBM is trying to eliminate all the ONEisms from the design.

(BTW-- does anyone know WTF this guy is saying?)

Re:3D cubes are nice, I guess (1)

section321a (848754) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683527)

That was the most intricate babble of nonsensical non-sequiters that I've ever tried to read. In the immortal words of Butters from SouthPark: "That made my head hurt"

Re:3D cubes are nice, I guess (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683613)

I think Gene Ray is somebody that enjoys gets his jollies thinking about how many people ask that question, and/or is one of those folks that has learned that woo-believers and conspiracy theorists will shell out money if you have a book/DVD/website and come give lectures to their little group.

If your brain thinks the words on that website make any kind of logical sense, then I don't think you'd be capable of learning how to use a computer well enough to manage a website, so I don't think the author is a true believer in...whatever he's talking about.

Re:3D cubes are nice, I guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23683519)

WTF?????

But the question is.... (5, Funny)

CowboyNealOption (1262194) | more than 6 years ago | (#23681991)

can it run Vista??

Re:But the question is.... (1)

keithius (804090) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682441)

Or how about: Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!

Re:But the question is.... (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682967)

More importantly we will finally be able to play Crysis at a decent frame rate and quite possibly Duke Nukem Forever IV will be possible to do too.

Re:But the question is.... (2, Funny)

Shinmizu (725298) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683821)

No, nothing can run Vista. God wrote it specifically as a challenge to everyone that asked that stupid question, "Can God write an OS that even he can't run?"

He's still working on that one rock problem, though...

my favorite (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23681993)

mmm cool ranch centrinos

Sunshine (1)

c0ol (628751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682005)

This reminds me of the water cooled computer from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/ [imdb.com] . It seems like a pretty cool idea, I don't know why it hasn't been used before.

When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682007)

Water cooling is great for the bleeding edge enthusiast, but it's hardly an option for the workaday computer users. Laptops certainly could stand to use some better heat dissipation, and if water cooling through 50nm tubes is possible here, how long until it is both cost effective and size-effective for people who aren't interested in hardware for its own sake to see this type of thing offered to us, the average computer user?

And is stacking the chips better than laying them flat and in a strip (like Pentium M)?

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682109)

Yeah I can't wait for "Water Cooling" to be a common term for my Grandparents to misunderstand...

"It was hot on my lap...so I water cooled it and now it won't turn on"

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (1)

hostyle (773991) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682125)

And is stacking the chips better than laying them flat and in a strip (like Pentium M)?
Awesome poker/gangster analogy. But I preferred your cars ones tbh.

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (2, Informative)

wattrlz (1162603) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682359)

... And is stacking the chips better than laying them flat and in a strip (like Pentium M)?

Sure. The interconnects could be shorter and thus impose much less lag. Core one wouldn't need to go through core two to talk to core three, etc.

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682659)

Also, the 3D structure might provide significantly more bandwidth.

Instead of having all connections on the perimeter of the chip, you can now have them anywhere. For future multiprocessors, memory bandwidth and limited pin counts are a major concern.

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682793)

Well, not really, if the processor designers are smart enough in designing 3D chips.

Instead of creating a processor stack that is a filled square, why not cut a section out of the middle for connections to go through?

I'm not sure how much it would take to design it like this, but it would be a better way than going through a chain of processors to get to the one you want.
If you are familiar with Cell, the EIB is a perfect example of what could be in the center of this, but much more advanced and specific to GPPs internal workings.

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (2, Informative)

nategoose (1004564) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682615)

Laying them out flat is better for cooling because it has more surface area, but the cube can be faster since the maximum distance from any 2 points within it is reduced from what it would be if the same chip area were laid out flat. This is why it NEEDS water cooling.

Re:When will water cooling be feasible for ME? (1)

lazybratsche (947030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682689)

Cheap and effective heatpipes showed up, and have been adopted by just about everything now. A good heatpipe is comparable to a basic water cooling setup, but it's a hell of a lot more reliable. They're sealed and have no moving parts, making them much better to stick in your laptop.

On the nerd/enthusiast side of things, I gave up my watercooling rig for just this reason. When I built a new computer, I just got an ordinary bigass heatsink, since it would give me 95% of the cooling for much less hassle and money.

Electrolysis (5, Interesting)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682011)

To cool the stack at a rate of 180 watts per layer, water flows down 50-micron channels between the stacked chips.
I wonder what reactivity of water with the surrounding surfaces will do to the life of the chip. AFAIK pretty much anything that uses water has an inherent limitation to its life, owing to the presence of superoxide radicals and free hydrogen ions.

Re:Electrolysis (2, Funny)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682199)

superoxide radicals
Sounds like a sweet name for a band.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682257)

Practically, it will be some work, but its not much of a conceptual jump to see something water-like being used. We don't use straight water (well, we shouldn't) in automotive radiators or other industrial cooling systems, so I'm sure someone will come up with some kind of cooling compound (or implement an existing one) for this purpose, perhaps even using a heat-exchanger system to waterblock where actual water is used.

IE, sort of like a nuclear reactor does it. The CPU is cooled with chemical X, which is pumped out of the CPU into an exchanger where heat is transferred from it into a traditional water cooling system - this way the damage caused by water is nowhere nearly as expensive to repair, and the cost of using fancy chemicals to avoid the in-cpu corrosion is minimized...

Of course, more pumps means more points of failure, but as long as the system intelligently handles (ie, shut the hell off) failures the damage is minimized.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682377)

Of course, more pumps means more points of failure, but as long as the system intelligently handles (ie, shut the hell off) failures the damage is minimized.
One thing is not to use pumps but rely on some other method, such as magnetism (if the liquid contained iron in the molecule, for example), to avoid moving parts. For heat exchange, as you say, they could use a cheap, replaceable module that uses water or something, but the idea of passing water into the chip would prevent me from being their first customer.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

wattrlz (1162603) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682403)

If the inside of the system is all made of one material couldn't you just put in deionized water and hope for the best? Copper, silver, and silicon are pretty water-resistant when there isn't anything in there with them to catalyze the reaction.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

chthon (580889) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683039)

I once saw a demonstration (mid 80's, I think), on an exhibition, of a water purifying system. The demo consisted of a tank of water with in it a playing television. The backside was removed to demonstrate that all the components where effectively submerged under water.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

madbox (187860) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682509)

That was exactly my first thought when I saw this: "How the heck are they gonna get around ionic leaching?" Gold, maybe?

Mind you, I don't doubt they can make this viable, it is just a bit like listening to the engineers saying "A new suspension bridge here will carry much more traffic," while boggling at the depth and width of the canyon in front of you.

Re:Electrolysis (2, Insightful)

rahunzi (968682) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682563)

What about FREEEZING???? you limit chip to an environment where water is liquid - also size of molecules is finite and chips sizes decrease, water will not... I guess a PLATE or MANIFOLD would work and simplify connectivity... this is also SCALABLE into some supercooling/conductivity

Re:Electrolysis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682787)

To cool the stack at a rate of 180 watts per layer, water flows down 50-micron channels between the stacked chips.
I wonder what reactivity of water with the surrounding surfaces will do to the life of the chip. AFAIK pretty much anything that uses water has an inherent limitation to its life, owing to the presence of superoxide radicals and free hydrogen ions.
The channels probably flow through the oxide layer (really pure silicon glass, or silicon nitride, if deposited).

How long does it take water to eat through glass?

I know most chemicals short of HF don't really do anything to glass chemically, so I'm not really seeing how water through the oxide layer is going to shorten a chip's lifetime.

Re:Electrolysis (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683317)

Perhaps they will utilize a sacrificial anode (another great name for a band...)

This will never work (4, Funny)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682037)

How can IBM be this stupid? You can't cool a stack of chips with water, they'll just get soggy. I know it's hard to be patient, but if your chips are too hot to eat, you're better off just waiting for them to cool down.

Re:This will never work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682115)

If you are going to douse them in anything after they have been fried, make it salt and vinegar

Re:This will never work (1)

ptbarnett (159784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682307)

Insightful?

Moderators are on crack this morning, again.

Re:This will never work (2, Insightful)

iamdrscience (541136) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682557)

It makes sense, you see, although modding a funny post as "funny" may be more accurate, modding a funny post as "insightful" instead is definitely more funny, so it's a much more appropriate moderation. You see, the moderator is making a joke about the joke. I believe this is called "metamoderation" -- if you have an account you may have noticed Slashdot encouraging you to metamoderate from time to time.

Re:This will never work (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683353)

moderating "funny" raises post score but not karma providing opportunity for karma loss.

if you think "funny" is worth karma then you mod "insightful" or "interesting" or whatever depending on how quirky you're feeling that day. that way the user doesn't ever lose karma for being funny unless they're at the karma kap - where in practicality it no longer matters because if you got there, you can probably get there again just fine and you can afford to lose five points of karma. (It's when there's a modding war on your comment and it's funny, overrated, funny, overrated, ad infinitum that you can get the major drain in just one comment.)

Re:This will never work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23683193)

How can IBM be this stupid? You can't cool a stack of chips with water, they'll just get soggy. I know it's hard to be patient, but if your chips are too hot to eat, you're better off just waiting for them to cool down.
Man, you just don't understand bleeding edge tech! You put nanotubes filled with water inside a can of Pringles. See, that's why the can is circular, because the chips are oval, and so there's room for the n'tubes [just don't eat the tubes].

AAC

180 Watts per layer (2, Informative)

javilon (99157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682039)

Sounds like too much, with typical numbers around 60 watts per processor this days.

Re:180 Watts per layer (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682099)

Sounds like too much, with typical numbers around 60 watts per processor this days.
So, if you cool it at a rate of 180 watts, you will drop its temperature effectively until the processor layer is producing 180 watts, at which point the cooling device will fail.

Re:180 Watts per layer (1)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682127)

These are not you average Centrino procs, these is server hardware running at close to 100% load probably. It gonna get hot :P

Re:180 Watts per layer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682129)

ohmigod! ibm must be doin it wrong!

Re:180 Watts per layer (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683383)

Sounds like too much, with typical numbers around 60 watts per processor this days.
Yes but it's 3D ! Ergo the 180.

Re:180 Watts per layer (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683471)

I think a "layer" consists of more than a core: "IBM plans to stack memory chips between processor cores to multiply interconnections by 100 times while reducing their feature size tenfold." So, this doesn't really say, but there could be a 4 core Power6 chip and 2 gigs of ram in a layer for all I know.

3D CPU structure (3, Interesting)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682087)

I always liked the idea of a 3D CPU with all the cores and memory interweaved through each other in a way to have the optimal short path for its purposes. A LOT of memory could be there right next to the CPU. It would be fast even without clocking it very high, so not even have to consume that much watts per layer. It's a crazy amount of watts per layer mentioned in the article btw...

Yes, that was God's idea... (1)

mosel-saar-ruwer (732341) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682399)


...when He created us:

human-brain-vis304784-ga.jpg [nationalgeographic.com]

Great minds think alike.

Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (2, Informative)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682095)

Right now, if the pump is off, or if the flow isn't flowing, the processor is none the wiser and happily starts up. I've seen my Core2Duo hit 100C when my pump died, my only warning was when the comp just shut off when it hit the temp cap. There needs to be some sort of control system that is actually linked in to the processor, so that it won't start if the flow of water through the block (or now the CPU itself) is below a certain rate. Most people who do use watercooling, however, know what they are doing and this usually isn't an issue, it would just be nice to know the server rack won't melt itself when someone blows the pump breaker.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682211)

it would just be nice to know the server rack won't melt itself when someone blows the pump breaker.
I think they will end up needing to use a more inert substance to ensure the stuff doesn't stop flowing.

Even if they put water that's as clean as a frog's butt into the device, there will be silting in good time with gradual deterioration of the cooling system.

IMHO they should use a fluorinated carbon of some kind - something that won't react with the processor nor participate in significant electrolysis.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682263)

IMHO they should use a fluorinated carbon of some kind - something that won't react with the processor nor participate in significant electrolysis.

You mean, like this [jupiterresearch.com] ? More likely they'd use something like commercial antifreeze solutions seen in vehicle radiators. But you still need to maintain the fluid (draining, replacing and what not.)

Next up, oil changes for your PC (cue stupid car analogies).

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682303)

You mean, like this [jupiterresearch.com]?
WTF? Why are you linking to off-topic crud?

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682491)

Err, stupid copy buffer. How about like this [wikipedia.org] .

Wanders off to get more coffee muttering about the lack of an edit function in slashcode.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682681)

Err, stupid copy buffer. How about like this [wikipedia.org].
That's better. And yes, I guess 3M is gonna get some phone-calls from IBM.

nerd faux pas (1)

Briden (1003105) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683309)

How embarrassing to have accidentally pasted a link to a blog about windows 95 and the rolling stones, ouch..
paste carefully, there are penguins lurking around here.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682645)

With the rapid self destruction time inherent in this system, I would like to think the engineers have addressed this issue.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

learningtree (1117339) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682867)

All modern CPUs support thermal throttling for the same purpose.

Re:Upgrades to cotrol systems needed (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683543)

Or, just make the circulation system extremely reliable. You had a broken pump, and I know I hate fans, since they always break and what good is a video card with a broken fan? I seem to recall some systems where the absorbed heat is used to boil the water, which drives it through cooling fins. This seems great: 1) no mechanical parts to fail, 2) change of state absorbs lots of energy, 3) no additional energy is used to power a pump or fan.

Everything that's old is new again (1)

holviala (124278) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682131)

We just finished removing all the water cooling tubing which the old mainframes used.... But hey, don't tell anyone that watercooling big computers isn't a new idea :-).

Re:Everything that's old is new again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682245)

In fact--for the benefit of those of us who haven't spent much time in "the glass house"--this way IBM'ers can continue to refer to their bigger customers as "water-cooled accounts".

Call me... (1)

Monkey_Genius (669908) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682165)

When it's 1024 processors in a water-cooled solid block of silicon.

Somewhere... (2, Funny)

Petersko (564140) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683215)

"When it's 1024 processors in a water-cooled solid block of silicon"

Somewhere there's a geek who has already accomplished this goal. He's using it to run Crysis at 4800x3600 with full detail, at 1600 frames per second, and no matter who he shows it off to, he still can't get laid.

Risky (1, Funny)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682213)

If the water gets 100C. it will boil and leave the processor in an isolating bubble.

Imagine the mistakes of the future (3, Funny)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682239)

I can see it now, "IBM struck with class-action lawsuit after several incidents of computers being left out in the cold of winter cause the processors to explode due to the natural properties of water expanding into ice. Other incidents with water contamination in liquid nitrogen-cooled 3-D processors have resulted in a similar lawsuit."

Re:Imagine the mistakes of the future (1)

rahunzi (968682) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683095)

I can see it now, "IBM struck with class-action lawsuit after several incidents of computers being left out in the cold of winter cause the processors to explode due to the natural properties of water expanding into ice. Other incidents with water contamination in liquid nitrogen-cooled 3-D processors have resulted in a similar lawsuit."
Yup - can see it now - another "niche" attorney career path:)

Peltier-Seebeck (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682271)

I am not an engineer, but I've been kicking this concept around in my head for a while, short paths FTW. I always thought of thermoelectric cooling solutions, water-through-the-chip... wow

P.S. (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682897)

BTW, I was thinking of 16 exabytes of RAM for each processor core, on the same chip, so the Bus only feeds the peripherals.
  Like I said, IANAE.

Re:Peltier-Seebeck (1)

lurking_giant (1087199) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683629)

I also wonder why no one has done a peltier thermoelectric module built into the chip http://www.overclockers.com/tips45/ [overclockers.com] to transfer directly to a cooling system. (water block or finned heat sink) With today's 3D chip technology, you could even build your chip on a curved surface to mate to a coolant tube...

Again? (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682277)

Funny, I thought that this thing has already existed for a while at IBM? They called it Multi-Chip Module-Vertical (MCM-V) at that time. But maybe just the cooling had to be redone for those power-hungry modern cores.

IBM have done this before (3, Insightful)

mad zambian (816201) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682321)

IBM and water cooling of chips is not really new. I remember reading of some research they did back in the 80's when they etched micro channels on the back of processor chips, and forced water through them. IIRC, they reckoned they could eventually dissipate almost 1KW per square centimeter.
You want to drive bipolar chips fast, you apply more power. And end up with a piece of silicon dissipating way more heat per unit area than an electric fire. Mind you, so do Athlons.

Multicore resource portal (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682329)

If you like to read more information on multicore processors, go to http://www.multicoreinfo.com/ [multicoreinfo.com] .

pc blocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682363)

So we start stacking cpu's to get more into one area? so once we can cool it will it become a normal home user item? If so surely to make the distance between the cpu and installable memory as small as possible and we will dispose of the mother boards and have mother cubes that the cpu's slot into!

Then mabe because a cube has too many different distances between cores and the memory (like the old long slot Pentiums) how long will we take to decide to have circular cpu's that fit into ORB motherboards! then our pc's will just become a ball of electronics! how the hell do you mount that in a case!

I understand that they will weave memory into the cpu but surely this wont be enought for the hardcore users.

mabe i'm thinking too much... no more coffee.

fuMcker (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682427)

fanatIc known Save Linux from a my efforts were as to which *BSD The most vibrant flaws in the BSD to look into

but (0)

aeskdar (1136689) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682469)

Will it run linux?

This just in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23682477)

3-D chip stacks are grossly superior to 2-D chip stacks.

Pringles fans rejoice!

fishtank (0)

johnrpenner (40054) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682705)


sounds like a great place for growing algae!!

(oh, they love that warm water!)

Re:fishtank (1)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683375)

Couldn't they employ some powerfull UV lamps? Like 2kw of lamps in their tank of water? It would certainly kill everything, and 2kw is almost nothing for such a datacenter.

plumbing always leaks (1)

johnrpenner (40054) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682715)


plumbing always leaks eventually - what a mess - my system melted down, and there's coolant all over the cpu -- blech. :-P

CMOS = Power Efficient??? (1)

Cassini2 (956052) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682749)

Does anyone remember the good old days when Metal Gate CMOS represented a power efficient process? We have went from CMOS devices consuming milliwatts and microwatts to processors with a 125W+ Total Power Dissipation. This announcement is talking about 180 Watts per layer!

How long will it be before my computer heats my house while I browse the internet? When does the first combined datacenter and heating cogeneration system get installed?

Re:CMOS = Power Efficient??? (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682903)

They are power efficient compared to the TTL devices of yore - How would you like a 200AMP 5V power supply just for your cpu ;)

Re:CMOS = Power Efficient??? (2, Interesting)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683059)

How long will it be before my computer heats my house while I browse the internet? When does the first combined datacenter and heating cogeneration system get installed?
About two months ago. http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/ibm-manages-to-warm-pool-water-with-its-heat-emissions/ [ecofriend.org]

Re:CMOS = Power Efficient??? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683619)

Sure, generating less heat in the first place is a good idea. But there will still be data centers where a lot of processing happens. So you can either have a low-density datacenter in a huge air-conditioned facility, or a smaller high-density setup where the waste heat is collected more efficiently.

For home PC's, I think power consumption has hit the ceiling already. Power isn't getting any cheaper, and "green" is trendy.

Cray? (1)

CompMD (522020) | more than 6 years ago | (#23682977)

Isn't this just miniaturizing what Cray used to do? They had processor/system boards in fluorinert, IBM has processor cores in water.

What about water damage? (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683395)

Unless the water is very, very pure, there will be effects of moving water. In all systems that use moving water, some amount of material is removed by impurities over time. For most systems, the amount of damage is microscopic so it doesn't matter as much. Still, periodic maintenance and replacement of parts is enough to combat this. But at the scale of these chips (microns), any damage may be serious.

Water Makes Sense (1)

FurtiveGlancer (1274746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23683417)

Deionized water is available, cheap and not a problem if there's a spill. No messing with hazardous materials or stringent environmental restrictions. That makes good sense.

"Welcome to Jiffy-stop. It's time for a power-flush and fill for your supercomputer. That'll be $19.95 with the coupon from Sunday's paper."
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...