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Windows XP SP3 Causing Router Crashes

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the insecurity-through-non-obscurity dept.

Security 337

KrispyBytes writes "Windows XP SP3 has been named as the culprit causing home routers to go into a crash and reboot cycle. One router maker has released firmware updates to fix the problem, but has not yet revealed what is actually different about XP SP3's networking stack or UPnP behaviour that causes the problem. Router maker Billion Managing Director Raaj Menon said "as Microsoft plans to make Windows XP SP3 an automatic upgrade this month, the number of affected routers may increase significantly.""

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Glad I disabled auto-updates (-1, Offtopic)

cheros (223479) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694631)

I always like to check what is foisted on my machine. It's been trying for weeks to get me to install WGA before I'm allowed near Office upgrades so I eventually gave up on that box and switched to OOo.

Except for label printing.

Re:Glad I disabled auto-updates (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694981)

I always like to check what is foisted on my machine. It's been trying for weeks to get me to install WGA before I'm allowed near Office upgrades so I eventually gave up on that box and switched to OOo.

Except for label printing.
What labels doesn't OpenOffice print?

Man-Denis! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694633)

Man Dennis! Man DENIS! MENIS FENIS BENIS GENIS DENNACE. I can't use this many caps, I need to type more lower case letters.

Maker? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694635)

One router maker has
I think you meant manufacture

Re:Maker? (5, Funny)

Neuropol (665537) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694689)

One router maker has
I think you meant manufacture
i think YOU meant manufacturer

Re:Maker? (3, Funny)

ROMRIX (912502) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694777)

i think YOU meant manufacturer
I think YOU meant "I"

Re:Maker? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695023)

i think YOU meant manufacturer

I think YOU meant "I"
I think YOU meant "I".

We could go on forever, couldn't we? :)

Re:Maker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694901)

One router maker has
I think you meant manufacture
i think YOU meant manufacturer
I do not think it means what you think it means.

Not surprising (5, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694643)

Windows XP SP3 has been named as the culprit causing home routers to go into a crash and reboot cycle.

Not surprising Windows causes that when installed on a router, considering it also makes PCs go into a crash and reboot cycle when installed on them.

Re:Not surprising (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694735)

Lets not jump to blame this on Windows. It could be that Windows isn't doing anything wrong, just something the router should be able to handle, but can't. We can point fingers when we know what the actual issue causing the router problems is.

Oblig comment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694773)

You haven't been on slashdot for long?

Re:Oblig comment (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694923)

Correction:
You must be new here.

Re:Not surprising (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695011)

Well duh; it was just a lame attempt at a joke, not an actual claim that Windows was to blame. A properly-designed router will only reboot repeatedly if some client is logging in and causing it to reboot.

Re:Not surprising (4, Informative)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695121)

Lets not jump to blame this on Windows. It could be that Windows isn't doing anything wrong, just something the router should be able to handle, but can't. We can point fingers when we know what the actual issue causing the router problems is.
Ya know I agree, as I've had SP3 installed in one form or another for some time now. With nary a problem... Can't even remember the last time I had to cycle my linksys befsx41. Besides I fail to see why a router should ever be affected to such a degree by a computer on it's network. Really does sound like flawed workmanship.

Re:Not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694953)

Wow, -1 Troll?

This is probably +2 funny, at least! Let's hope the mods come to their senses.

Oh brother... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694647)

Honestly... I'm sure that this has nothing to do with XP SP3 and is a coincidence, or just completely made up. And even if SP3 is doing something differently, if a router crashes due to a machine connected to it, it's a problem with the router.

Re:Oh brother... (4, Insightful)

spazdor (902907) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695143)

is a coincidence, or just completely made up


Unlikely, given that the OP mentions that at least one manufacturer has fixed the problem with a firmware update. You can't really write software to fix a problem until you've figured out what the problem is.

You're right though, a properly hardened router will keep ticking regardless of what's plugged into it. Mostly. [fiftythree.org]

Before anyone goes on a MS rant (5, Insightful)

Gregb05 (754217) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694651)

A computer on the network should not be able to crash the router. This is a problem with the manufacturing of the routers, not anything in particular with SP3. This problem could have arisen in any OS. The fact that it appeared with SP3 is irrelevant. I return you to your MS bashing.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (0, Troll)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694711)

True but it takes two to tango, just like a website should never crash a browser it is relevent that the OS/website is abusing the specifications soo badly to cause the crashes.
It is the manufactures fault that thier crashing, but this bug wouldnt be seen if xp was behaving correctly.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (3, Insightful)

Wavebreak (1256876) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694759)

How do you know it's not? Until we see some actual analysis of this, there's no way to know if XP is at fault or if it's just shitty routers doing what they do. The latter seems far more likely to me, considering how absolutely shit most of the routers out there are, especially with stock firmware.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695145)

Lets make this easier and flat out assume XP's UPnP implementation was intentionally designed to crash the largest number of routers on the planet in a clever bid to raise Vista sales.

Even with this unlikely assumption in play it would still be 100% the fault of the router for crashing.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (3, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694829)

True but it takes two to tango
Yes, it wouldn't have happened without the "help" of SP3 in this case. That being said, with the relevant information not released here, it's not certain SP3 is doing anything inherently wrong according to the networking standards. Testing SP3 on all hardware configs is additionally nothing one can expect Microsoft of doing.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (5, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694853)

> It is the manufactures fault that thier crashing, but this bug wouldnt be seen if xp was
> behaving correctly.

Nonsense. Any router that can be crashed by anything that a computer connected to it does has a critical bug and should be recalled immediately.

Exactly (2, Insightful)

biolysis (1303409) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695017)

Your point is the relevant one. Regardless of what OS did this, the fact is that no computer should ever be able to crash a router period. The incessant MS bashing reaches absurd levels sometimes.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (4, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694873)

However... If they find out what causes the router to crash with SP3 then all it will take is someone to duplicate the information sent and crash the router again and again. If the router crashes is has to be the fault of the router not of the OS, as other routers don't crash. As well as a poorly designed website. If your web browser crashes from a badly made website then it is the web browsers faults. Your argument only really holds true in cases of custom designed software where the sender of the data will need to agree to send the data in the correct format as well the receiver agrees to get the data in the correct format. And still even in that case a good program will be able to atleast say something is wrong, vs. it crashing.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694779)

Really? Do you know it's the router's fault and not XP SP3's fault?

Sure, you can say "an OS should never crash a router" but that's simply not true. If the OS abuses the router in ways that it simply can't handle and shouldn't have to, the OS is at fault.

Take a DDOS attack. Is the OS at fault because it can't manage to handle millions of connections at once? Of course not.

The article doesn't say what's wrong, but if the problem is something like XP filling up the NAT table or the UPNP table with bogus entries, that's XP's fault.

Sure, the router is at some fault for crashing instead of just aborting and waiting for the connections to die, but there's nothing the router can do to avoid the problem. The right solution would be for XP to stop creating bogus NAT/UPNP entries.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (-1)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694849)

While it's true that network hardware shouldn't crash in any circumstances, Microsoft would certainly deserve bashing if it's a result of them violating the specs and sending out mangled packets. Impossible to say without further details. Certainly cheapo network hardware manufacturers deserve bashing as a matter of course.

Re:Before anyone goes on a MS rant (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695113)

Between having a security hole that allows denial-of-service attacks and sending some slightly mangled packets, I'd go about 98-2% to the router manufacturers on this one. That is assuming the packets are actually mangled, which isn't proven. I wouldn't care how broken a web page was, if Firefox crashes then it's Firefox's fault (or extensions/plugins, but that's a different issue). If you came and said "While it's true that the browser shouldn't crash in any circumstances, Apache would certainly deserve bashing if it's a result of them violating the specs and sending out mangled web pages." I think people would laugh. Assume the input data is crap, that applies equally everywhere and any software that can't handle that is poor software.

maybe, maybe not (4, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695167)

I agree that no router should crash based just on packets it passes. But there are a few issues here. If SP3 is causing something akin to a DOS, and a router's tables are filling up due to bad packets, it might very reasonably decide that things are so bad that the best thing for it to do is a reset. We don't blame the router maker when an external DOS attack interrupts Internet access, why blame it if the DOS is from Microsoft software on the inside?

And there is also the potential issue of this being UPNP related. UPNP is a completely bogus thing, but Microsoft strong armed the industry to support it and it's in most routers and many users don't know to disable it. UPNP could certainly give ways to cause this issue, and I only hold the router itself responsible to the extent that it supports this blasphemy.

Blaming the wrong programmers (5, Insightful)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694661)

Shouldn't the title of this post be "Shitty router programming causing router crashes"? It should matter what type of garbage come off the wire, the router must be able to handle it all without error.

Re:Blaming the wrong programmers (4, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694845)

Agreed. If SP3 can do this unintentionally, imagine what the series of communicated data with the routers can do if a malicious writer now reverse-engineer whatever SP3 is doing, and would spread a time-triggered virus, for example. These kind of hardware issues are never good.

Re:Blaming the wrong programmers (1)

alx5000 (896642) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694875)

Otherwise, imagine the havoc an external attacker could create just by imitating this supposedly XP SP3's new behaviour (unless it only affects the internal LAN ports somehow and, still, a router should know better than letting others take it down...). Besides, were it to be XP's fault, I wonder how secure any network using this routers could be, since a random virus infection could render all its neighbours connectionless, just by imitating Windows's "strategy".

Re:Blaming the wrong programmers (1, Offtopic)

thermian (1267986) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694881)

Maybe, SP3 appears to have been responsible for screwing up my machine, causing it to crash constantly within a day of being installed.
I re-installed and just got the updates singly from windows update. It might just be that my machine is four years old however, I'm not definitely sure it was SP3, it was just the timing that makes it seem that way.

Re:Blaming the wrong programmers (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694897)

Or even " Windows XPSP3 exposes errors in routers, manufacturers scramble to fix possible DoS vulnerability'

i hate windows as much as the next guy but i agree, its not really Microsoft's fault.

Re:Blaming the wrong programmers (5, Informative)

yomegaman (516565) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694899)

The "article" is just a reprinted press release from Billion. Of course they blame SP3, since the alternative is admitting their products are buggy pieces of junk.

Other Glitches? (0, Offtopic)

Illbay (700081) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694665)

This seems like a good place to mention this.

I have had some screwed-up problems since installing SP3 myself, not related to this "Router" issue.

First, Firefox no longer functions correctly. Specifically, field data that is retained (you can see it right there already filled-in), does not register. For instance, if I have a user id and password already entered and saved from a previous session, even though it shows up in the field, the server system doesn't "see" it.

Second, the USB ports on my HP Port Replicator xb2000 (I believe) no longer function.

I don't believe this is coincidence, but is directly attributable to SP3.

Re:Other Glitches? (5, Funny)

oz_paulb (617486) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694705)

I have to agree.

I updated to SP3 yesterday, and now my microwave stopped working.

Coincidence? I think not!

Re:Other Glitches? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694791)

Congrats on making the only comment so far that isn't totally idiotic.

Re:Other Glitches? (2, Informative)

punissuer (1036512) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694805)

Funny, but IMHO Windows' support for USB still sucks. Sometimes my XP Home machine boots up and totally ignores my USB keyboard. Unplugging the kb and plugging it back in fixes the issue temporarily, but why should I have to do that? The motherboard setup program has no such issues, and neither do any Linux distros I've tried.

Re:Other Glitches? (0)

Krilomir (29904) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695021)

Yeah, let us blame Microsoft for all the crappy windows drivers out there instead of the hardware manufacturers. The fact that it works in Linux is just another indication that it is the drivers that are the issue.

Re:Other Glitches? (3, Funny)

Hankapobe (1290722) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694933)

I have to agree. I updated to SP3 yesterday, and now my microwave stopped working. Coincidence? I think not!

And I have heart burn....Hmmmm, I think you've discovered something here!

Re:Other Glitches? (2, Funny)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695009)

I sense a Farkism here:

"Oil prices reach $138/barrel on news that.." ...Shakes Magic 8 ball...

"...Stock Exchange installs Windows XP SP3"

Re:Other Glitches? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695029)

I updated to SP3 yesterday, and now my microwave stopped working.
What's wrong with you!? Don't you remember that update that made Sony batteries to explode? There is no such thing as terrorism anymore, it's just Windows Updates!

Re:Other Glitches? (3, Informative)

couchslug (175151) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694731)

"Second, the USB ports on my HP Port Replicator xb2000 (I believe) no longer function."

Boot a live Linux CD such as Knoppix and see if it works. It's a handy way to swap OS for testing.

Re:Other Glitches? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694747)

For what it is worth, I have no problems with USB or field data with SP3.

What version of Firefox are you running?

What if I was the other way around? (4, Interesting)

ccguy (1116865) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694669)

If an upgrade to a router caused Windows to enter a reboot cycle would we be blaming the router manufacturer or Microsoft?

Re:What if I was the other way around? (2, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694727)

If an upgrade to a router caused Windows to enter a reboot cycle would we be blaming the router manufacturer or Microsoft?

Would anyone notice?

Kidding aside, my first thought was this is CLEARLY a router problem. Even if SP3 is completely defective and sending out complete garbage to the router, the router should cope better than going into a 'crash and reboot cycle'.

Re:What if I was the other way around? (2, Interesting)

ccguy (1116865) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694787)

Kidding aside, my first thought was this is CLEARLY a router problem.
Obviously. Anyway they'd better fix it soon because a customer with no internet connection and no way to fix the problem online is a pissed off customer.

Re:What if I was the other way around? (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695093)

Problem is, though, he would (as usually) be pissed at the wrong party. That MS is the wrong party this time might be divine justice, but it still means that the wrong side gets heat for something someone completely different fubar'ed.

No lies, just a bad track record. (2, Informative)

hikaricloud (983170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694673)

As for the service pack not crashing routers, they actually do have the ability. So no MS bashing for me, just truth. Microsoft just has a bad run with service packs for XP, huh? SP3 has also been the culprit for a lot of machines just up and crashing. At both of our shops, we've gotten scads of machines, all with the same issues, all caused by an SP3 update. It's insane. First ME, then XP SP2, then Vista, now SP3. Microsoft really wants to be the evil empire, don't they?

Re:No lies, just a bad track record. (1)

hikaricloud (983170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694685)

Hey damn. I forgot the br codes. Great.

Re:No lies, just a bad track record. (-1, Offtopic)

hikaricloud (983170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694885)

Also, how is that flamebait in comparison to some of the crap commented on here? Apparently sarcasm and humor is flamebait nowadays. Great.

Re:No lies, just a bad track record. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695159)

At both of our shops, we've gotten scads of machines, all with the same issues, all caused by an SP3 update. It's insane.
God damn. If you're running a shop with "scads of" computers, try TESTING the damned service pack before rolling it out sitewide. You deserve the hassle for such a stupid oversight.

Thats funny (2, Funny)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694675)

My OpenBSD router is fine...oh wait, I don't run Windows either.

"Billion" routers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694683)

Uhhh... never heard of them.

Tinfoil hat time! (0, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694687)

We all know that most routers use Linux, usually an old kernel that won't/can't be upgraded. I'm wondering if they are intentionally exploiting a bug in the linux TCP/IP stack to cause crashes/instability/etc. With MS trying to get in on the phone/embedded device market, they could license NT/IIS for router usage and make some serious cash.

Re:Tinfoil hat time! (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694823)

No, it's just the Linux overlords making their stuff not work--on purpose--with Microsoft products. It's a conspiracy to propagate desktop linux since 99% of broadband customers access the net through some kind of cheap router.

...And you all think that Microsoft is anti-competitive? :)

Re:Tinfoil hat time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694855)

congratulations, that's the dumbest thing i've read today.

Re:Tinfoil hat time! (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694867)

The problem is much more likely to be in code added by the manufacturer, either in their custom device drivers or their application code.

Re:Tinfoil hat time! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694919)

We all know that most routers use Linux
Do we? I'd guess a fair number don't.

So... (5, Funny)

laurent420 (711504) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694691)

Windows is a DOS?

Re:So... (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694761)

Windows 3.1 developed an ice cream flavor called HogginDOS.

Happened to me... (2, Informative)

flar2 (938689) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694713)

This happened to me. I booted into Windows XP for the first time in months just to check out SP3 and that same night my router went crazy, lights blinking on and off. It's a cheap no-name router, I'll have to find out what chipset it is and whether I can upgrade the firmware just in case I ever boot into Windows again.

Well that explains everything. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694715)

PC gaming has been a real drag for the last few weeks with the constant crashing of my router... I wonder if there's anything I can do about it.

Re:Well that explains everything. (2, Informative)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694911)

Ummmm... Switch to Linux/Mac/BSD/Plan 9/Solaris/Hurd/Syllable/FreeDOS/Haiku/Windows 95?

Crashes Netgear MR814v3 (4, Funny)

ROMRIX (912502) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694725)

I've been wondering what the hell has been going on with my conne

Re:Crashes Netgear MR814v3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694993)

I've been wondering what the hell has been going on with my conne
Those routers have crashed and been general POS's long before SP3...

DOS attack... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694743)

So billion routers are prone to a DOS attack. Misbehaving nodes on the network should not be able to take the router down.

To bad the article doesn't mention what the culprit is. Is it malformed DHCP requests? IPv6 trafick, UPNP.... Why is this article on slashdot?

Works for me, and probably for you (5, Interesting)

Ethan Allison (904983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694753)

It only affects the "Billion BiPAC 5200" series.

I've never used one, never seen one, never heard of one, and you haven't either. Odd how the summary fails to mention that the problem is only with this obscure model...

Re:Works for me, and probably for you (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694997)

In my experience this also affects every Linksys model I had come in contact with that are flashed with the stock firmware or DD-WRT (any version).

Odd, or Convenient? (1)

FurtiveGlancer (1274746) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695169)

Odd how the summary fails to mention that the problem is only with this obscure model...
Maybe specious [reference.com] or suspicious [reference.com] would better describe the article's failure to mention this rather key piece of information.

Same as Vista (4, Informative)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694775)

SP3 borrows a Vista feature (presumably the same code) to detect "Router Black Holes".

From http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/xp_sp3.asp [winsupersite.com]

"Black hole" router detection algorithm. XP gains the ability to ignore network routers that incorrectly drop certain kinds of network packets. This, too, is a feature of Windows Vista.

Re:Same as Vista (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694857)

SP3 borrows a Vista feature (presumably the same code) to detect "Router Black Holes".

That has been around for years, it's called path MTU discovery.

And frankly, if unusual packets crash a router, the problem is with the router.

Re:Same as Vista (2, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694971)

I agree. Quite frankly, given that only one small manufacturer is reporting issues, and that they were able to resolve the issue on their end, makes me believe the issue is more with the router.

What if the router ran Linux? (2, Funny)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694807)

What would we do if these routers ran a linux based firmware? What would we do? Can we flame linux or do we continue to flame msft for abusing specs?

I'm looking for guidance from the /. flamers.

Re:What if the router ran Linux? (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694883)

There hardly any comments yet. Most are defending Microsoft. Who is this "we" that are flaming msft?

Re:What if the router ran Linux? (1)

MrMr (219533) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695073)

The poor MSerables are so used to being laughed at around here we don't even have to press submit anymore to make them feel it.

Re:What if the router ran Linux? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695147)

You know what I hate, I hate people that eat cabbage.

Except when it is broccoli.

Re:What if the router ran Linux? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694945)

You can flame anything. Maybe it was Microsoft specifically targeting a Linux exploit? Maybe it was a driver, or a modification that is entirely the router manufacturer's fault?

I think the most telling thing about this is the danger of monoculture. When routers are only tested against specific versions of Windows... But that's not a flame, as there's no one entity you can blame for this. Good routers wouldn't have this problem.

Re:What if the router ran Linux? (2, Informative)

LarsG (31008) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695149)

I`d say the router is worthy of flame no matter what OS it is running. A router must be stable, it should not crash even if you send complete random gibberish at it.

If it turns out that XPSP3 is sending broken UPnP traffic to the router, then MS is a valid flame target for not following the spec properly. That does however not absolve the router.

Buggy Routers (4, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694811)

Any router that can be crashed by anything that any of the computers connected to it do is seriously buggy. This is not Microsoft's fault.

Re:Buggy Routers (1, Insightful)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694955)

not quite, any router that can be crashed by bad packets is buggy, i don't see the need for routers to be designed to anticipate other bad behavior, such as dumping 110 V AC down all 8 pins

/pedantic

Re:Buggy Routers (2, Informative)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695127)

> ...such as dumping 110 V AC down all 8 pins

Interfaces that comply with the Ethernet standard are transformer isolated (except for the brain-damaged idea of POE, but only the most idiotic router designers would implement that (and even POE should be fused)).

here's an idea for ya? (1)

arbiter1 (1204146) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694813)

How about you buy a good name brand router and not one them cheap no name brand's. i got a linksys and a dlink, both work just the same before and after sp3 was install on both my desktop and laptop.

Since I use Vista (4, Funny)

Clockwurk (577966) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694831)

I don't have this problem.

Obligatory quote (1)

timbck2 (233967) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694903)

All your base (stations) are belong to us!

Router Trouble. (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694943)

As some have said, if a machine on the network can crash the router(short of violating physical specs for things like ethernet voltage and polarity), then the router has Issues.

What I don't understand is why so many of your basic 4 ports lan, one port wan, and an antenna type routers have such lousy firmware. I understand that the hardware is built right down to price, and isn't going to be exciting; but software is a different matter. There are really only a few chipset variations in general use, OpenWRT supports most of them and provides a solid and extensible foundation. ddWRT is less extensible and flashier, still solid. Tomatoe is out there as well. In a world where people are literally giving high quality router firmware away, how can anybody ship a router with bad firmware?

Re:Router Trouble. (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695163)

> As some have said, if a machine on the network can crash the router(short of violating
> physical specs for things like ethernet voltage and polarity), then the router has Issues.

Unless you are applying 10KV or something miswiring should not crash a router.

Crappy router. (4, Interesting)

fluffy99 (870997) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694949)

Billion makes crappy knock-off routers, that were crashing or not working long before XP SP3 was released. Perhaps XPSP3 does do something different with uPNP, but that's not where the blame needs to be assigned. As an aside, uPNP is a crappy idea. Do you really want your OS and any programs (malware included) to have the ability to change your external firewall?

Correlation != causation (3, Insightful)

catscan2000 (211521) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694983)

It sounds like the Billion router's firmware had a really bad bug that happened to be poked by Windows XP SP3. Unless if this was in a third party library or some external code that they were using, I wouldn't be surprised if this was limited to just Billion routers.

XP SP3 didn't _cause_ the bug; it merely happened to recreate a condition that triggered a bug inside the router to crash itself. :-)

I installed SP3 (4, Funny)

LM741N (258038) | more than 6 years ago | (#23694987)

and now women won't go out on dates with me anymore. ....ok, they wouldn't with Service Pack 1 or 2 either, so I'm now trying Vista.

Re:I installed SP3 (5, Funny)

DavidD_CA (750156) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695165)

Judging by most of the people here, you won't have any better success with Ubuntu or SuSe either.

You might try Mac OS. Or at the least, get an iPhone and use it liberally while in public.

Here's the technical reason (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694989)

Quote from their website:

"After detail analysis, we found that Windows XP SP3 sent out the DHCP packet with the Option 43 data (include Microsoft's 'Vendor Specific Information'), but Windows XP SP2 sent out the DHCP packet without the Option 43 data. However, the Option 43 data is not compatible with Billion's original definition, so it will cause this problem. The affected firmware versions of BiPAC 5200 series are 2.9.8.x and 2.11.0.x~2.11.33.x. There is no impact to BiPAC 5200 series if the firmware is 2.10.x.x. Please check Appendix A for checking your current firmware version."

http://au.billion.com/downloads/Notice-Billion-5200-series-via-Windows-SP3.pdf [billion.com]

Streams crossed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23694995)

Slashdot corporately supporting Microsoft? I must be new here.

Flamers and newbie programmers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695025)

This is a problem with the router's firmware. It has nothing to do with XP, or any other Operating System.

First off:

  - Who the fuck didn't isolate the rebooting mechanism and interrupts from the main loop that relays packets?

  - Who the fuck didn't include ring-0 protection or anything like it on the critical interrupts like for example a reboot or a complete shutdown?

And finally, what kind of a moron faults an OS for a violation of firmware design? /. trolls, appearently.

so is it microsofts fault also? (1)

atarione (601740) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695031)

that if you go to their web page [uk.com] and look on the left hand side it says URGENT NOTICE blah blah blah XP SP3 then "click here" if you are over "click" it takes you to one of their products (not the affected one btw) page if you are over "here" it takes you to the firmware. kinda funny really.. I would like my vote to the numerous others that suggest this should not have been subbed as a XP SP3 problem but a cock up on Billion's part.

Title is correct (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23695033)

Obviously, Windows XP SP3 is crashing a router. It doesn't say that is Windows XP SP3 fault.

I'm sorry, broadband router manufacturer who? (2, Insightful)

urbanriot (924981) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695047)

Billion? Never heard of'em. My Linksys router isn't complaining...

XP3 or the router's fault? (2, Interesting)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695075)

While I agree that a router shouldn't crash no matter what an attached computer does, I completely disagree with the Windows fanboys who claim this is a non-story. It's obvious SP3 is doing something different network-wise than any other OS, be it Linux, Mac, or even Windows XP SP2. It's important that people with the effected brands of routers have this information, so they can choose whether or not to delay upgrading. It's also important for network admins to find out exactly what SP3 is doing, and get Microsoft to fix it (or work with the router manufacturers, depending on what exactly is going on). Microsoft's recent track record vis-a-vis security and interoperability is definitely better than it once was; but we can't forget that they've done some very stupid and/or insular stuff in the not too distant past.

What the /. reads this as.. (1)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695107)

I think for April Fools we should rename this article since we know how great the editors' grammar is.

Billion's routers crash after upgrade to XP SP3.

OMG a Billion Routers crash....
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