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Warhammer Online Information by the Truckload

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the massively-goes-to-war dept.

Role Playing (Games) 96

Last week Massively.com got the chance to head over to EA Mythic's Virginia lab to clock some hands-on time with Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning . As a result they were pumping out loads of review content, everything from hardcore PvP info to dungeon crawling to crafting. The culmination of all this hard work was a summary post with clickable navigation to all of their review resources. Definitely worth a look if you are at all curious about this upcoming behemoth.

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96 comments

Zonk at Massively? (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#23711943)

I haven't seen a post from Zonk since April 17th [slashdot.org] and now I see that this blog at Massively is by none other than Michael "Zonk" Zenke.

Is there a reason why this wasn't hosted at games.slashdot.org? Is it a sign of Zonk moving on like other editors/authors or is he merely helping other sites out?

Either way, an unparalleled score of information on Warhammer Online by EA Mythic! Well done, Zonk!

I wish there was word on how stable and balanced the game is currently at. I remember playing some MMOs back in the day that were more than a bit glitchy.

Zonk Zucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23712191)

End of the world kind of guy, zonk is. Hyperbole is another word, but less effective.

Re:Zonk at Massively? (5, Informative)

Zonk (12082) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713481)

Aprils 17th was actually my last day with the site.

I'm just another Slashdot user now. :)

My primary gig is over at Massively, but I'm also writing at places like Wired, Gamasutra, and 1up.

As for stability, unfortunately I can't really speak to that. They're still very much in a Beta phase. It was a lot less glitchy than I've seen some games at that stage, but it was (of course) a setup specifically designed to give me the best impression of the game possible.

Re:Zonk at Massively? (2, Interesting)

StalinsNotDead (764374) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713875)

So why does your user name still have the Slashdot indicator next to the friend/foe dots?

Good luck on you r current gig(s).

I won't pay to play an MMO until (3, Insightful)

Bobtree (105901) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712039)

the players have real agency. What's the point of being online with lots of people if everybody's quests are identical and no player's actions really impact the world at all? Maybe Warhammer will be the one to do that. Time will tell.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (5, Informative)

plus_M (1188595) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712097)

Sounds like you're asking about Eve Online [eve-online.com] .

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (4, Informative)

GalacticCmdr (944723) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712879)

Except of course for the whole "Developers cheating to help themselves and their friends" issue that plagues Eve.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23714697)

That was a specific incident over a year ago. Not exactly a plague. And you think no insider at any other mmo has ever exploited their position?

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (2, Funny)

AlexMax2742 (602517) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716439)

I could deal with that if the game was more exciting than Microsoft Excel.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#23722165)

Excel's scripting language is Turing Complete, so you could implement any game you wanted.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (4, Informative)

elnico (1290430) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712321)

The jewel of Warhammer Online will be it's Realm Vs. Realm (RvR) combat. One of the main tenets of RvR combat, as Mythic implements it, is that all PvP actions contribute towards the war effort. Entire zones will change control as the result of events in RvR. Believe me, Mythic is very much trying to avoid the solo-MMO paradigm that was made popular by (parts of) WoW.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716339)

It's not just PvP actions that contribute. That's the beauty of Warhammer's design. Everything you do, from PvE quests to unlocking entries in the Tome of Knowledge to instanced scenarios (aka battlegrounds) to world PvP contributes realm points to your faction.

This means even if you're a casual player who logs in once or twice a week to participate in nothing else but public quests ("raiding without the bullcrap" according to the devs), you're still helping the campaign.

So, basically... (2, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716765)

So, basically, they're trying to avoid what made WoW so successful? I'm sure they can ask the fine developers of Vanguard how well the plan went to avoid everything that made WoW fun.

I mean, seriously, even Sony had to grudgingly give up and demote most NPCs from heroic (think "elite" in WoW lingo) to make it more soloable, plus give all classes enough firepower (e.g., via "heroic opportunities") to solo.

Now I'm not commenting on Warcraft Online specifically, since I don't have enough info for that. I don't know whether it will rule or suck.

But trying to avoid solo-MMO at this point is really a way to say, "nah, we're not giving the vast majority of players what they want." I just have to question why would anyone sane do that? Did they (and their publisher) take a vow of poverty? Or are they trying to not compete too hard with Blizzard? Or what? :P

Or it could be that they're smarter than that, after all, and just give a wrong impression.

Re:So, basically... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718377)

I think they're all just trying to say "hey guys, WoW isn't a *real* MMO, but ours is", and "real MMO" is generally interpreted to mean "you have to group up to get anything done". And what most people actually want is not this strictest definition of "real MMO", so games that try to get ahead by being the "real MMO" that WoW isn't end up failing.

Whatever criticisms you may have of Blizzard (and as a WoW player, I have plenty), they have at least figured out what most people want and design their games accordingly.

Dunno where people got that definition from (2, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#23721023)

Personally I dunno where people got that definition that you must need a group to even go to the toilet, to be a "real" MMO.

The name just says "massively multiplayer", which strictly speaking means lots and lots of players on the same server.

The first "real" MMO was UO, so basically it means whatever Origin wanted it to mean. It had no such restriction.

Some people would argue that MMOs are really a continuation of MUDs, only this time with a graphical interface. And while I would personally call it a new genre anyway, or a convergence of two former genre, I see their point too: the first ones played a lot like a DIKU with graphics. MUDs had no such restriction either.

Basically I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. Quite the contrary. Just wondering where people got that idea.

Re:Dunno where people got that definition from (1)

xhrit (915936) | more than 5 years ago | (#23726497)

MMOs are about as much a continuation of MUD as madden 07 is a continuation ov nethack. The first "real" MMO was SubSpace, a two-dimensional space shooter - lead programmer Jeff Petersen coined the term massively multiplayer online game to describe the huge player counts supported by the SubSpace servers.

SubSpace was a team based PvP game, but you could solo just by creating a new team. It's successor, Continuum, is free but for windows only. It is the only thing I regret about switching to linux.

Re:Dunno where people got that definition from (1)

HellProphet (1045990) | more than 5 years ago | (#23726519)

Thanks for mentioning UO. UO in the beginning had the best concept of an environment without guidelines. Now everyone wastes away on a single path like WOW or Tabula Rusa etc. I have to play the strongest class, I have to acquire the same weapon as everyone else. I must use the same build as everyone else. I cannot customize my clothes, my hair color(limited), I have to wait til im such a level to acquire a mount because it would be unrealistic to have a horse without being a certain level(dumbest idea ever). I think its ridiculous that you have to pick a class and get 1 set of skills and 1 play style. All new games offer no variety like Ultima Online once offered. It feels like a never ending single player RPG. You get to max level and repeat fun games or the same end level dungeon over and over. Maybe DarkFall Online will release before they make DX11/opengl4.0 and have to re-code the entire game.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23719211)

YOU ARE WRONG ELNICO.

Okay, not wrong but you left out part of it. ALL actions affect the RvR. Not just PvP and RvR battles. All those PvE only players? Yea they are going to help your side take control just as much as the PvPers.

I'm in the Beta and believe me, PvE matters. The game is MADE specifically with a PvP focus (as they say everywhere) but PvE DOES help the war effort.

Waaagh!

Mythic appears to have learned some, but... (1)

Kaukomieli (993644) | more than 5 years ago | (#23722513)

Mythic has developed RvR in Dark Age of Camelot and has tested most of the concepts there. The whole concept of RvR as an endgame is mostly neglected by other MMOs, most have a PvP-ruleset or limited arenas with gameconcepts taken from Shooters like CTF. In my opinion RvR is the best concept for an endgame, as opponents are evolving, developing new tactics and counters and introducing human creativity to the game.

Unfortunately (but not entirely unexpected...) it has shown, that players behave like ordinary human beings and try to maximize profit (in the case of DAoC in realm-points) while minimizing risk. While not as ubiquitous as on pure PvP-rulesets some players tend(ed) to heavily use textures, geometry and game mechanics.

Additionally Mythic designed many aspects in DAoC with a certain usecase in mind and seldom thought of the consequences of combining certain aspects. Often they totally underestimated the impact of their doings on the RvR-endgame, but they seem to have learned something from their past mistakes. At least in my opinion the latest expansions have been better balanced.
With Warhammer they decided to limit the possible combinations (fewer classes, fewer abilities) to make it easier to estimate gaming-impact of changes.

To me Mythic still has to prove, that they have lost their tendency to introduce overpowered abilities to the game and overnerfing them afterwards.
I think they especially need someone to tell them about RNG, as the one they use in DAoC has a strong tendency to produce streaks (shown by large tests from the playerbase and posted on vnboards) while Mythic still claims it to be working fine.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (1)

pragma_x (644215) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713205)

As far as I'm concerned, it won't be a *real* warhammer MMO until there's a game mode where you can go head-to-head against another player at the army vs army scale. I suppose this could function as a kind of "commander mode" super-imposed onto a traditional MMO PvP framework. After all that's a big part of what makes Warhammer distinct from other Tolkien-like storytelling frameworks.

Of course to make it true to Warhammer, players will have to sit idle for hours while the commanders argue with an admin over the rules...

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (2, Interesting)

Spudds (860292) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715295)

Dark Age Of Camelot (also created by Mythic) was somewhat like that. WAR is basically DAOC v2.

In DAOC, you captured keeps. The more RvR keeps you had, the more advantages you had in PvE.
For example, with x keeps, you had more gold dropped from mobs. With x + 1 keeps you had more gold drop and bonus XP when you killed mobs. With x + 2 keeps you had more gold, more XP and did more mele dmg.

Those aren't exact, they're examples from my diminishing memory, but you get the idea.
There was also a special dungeon shared across all realms that you were only allowed to go in if your realm had enough keeps in RvR. I believe that's where "the good drops" were...

It sounds like WAR is following in those footsteps but is expanded and refined. So it sounds like WAR is basically what you're looking for.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 5 years ago | (#23757153)

I am praying that WAR doesn't get FUBARed by EA (like every other MMO EA has been involved in).

DAoC had a lot of good aspects of its fundamental design, but a few screwups (namely Trials of Atlantis) were able to kill the playerbase before Mythic could fix them.

Many friends of mine and I were hoping for WAR = DAoC V2, but now that EA is involved it's far more likely that WAR = crap. :(

Hopefully I'll be wrong, but EA's MMO track record is awful.

Re:I won't pay to play an MMO until (2, Insightful)

truetorment (919200) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716333)

What you're asking for is impossible for any MMO developer to create while also pursuing a large customer base. Letting ONE person irrevocably change something in an MMO isn't fair to the hundreds, thousands, or even MILLIONS of other players who will now no longer be able to do the same event, quest, etc. You're asking for a herculean development task that just isn't possible.

Would you pay to let other people ruin your fun? (1)

patio11 (857072) | more than 5 years ago | (#23722397)

Everyone playing WoW says "No, thanks". The key to all of the nostalgia for UO and its ilk is the presence of an underclass of gankees that the nostalgiac could prey upon... but these days the gankees have other outlets where they can have all the socialization and grind without getting their face pounded at least once a play session.

"Player agency" means the ability to inflict yourself on other people. Thanks, I'm going to take a pass on that one.

Truckload? (4, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712113)

I'm unfamiliar with that unit of measurement. Could someone convert that to Libraries of Congress, or failing that, to metric buttloads and I can convert from there to LoCs.

Re:Truckload? (5, Funny)

everphilski (877346) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712287)

I'm sorry, we only deal in imperial buttloads

Re:Truckload? (1)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713791)

Damn you Americans and your crappy Imperial System.

Sensible people the world over have switched to The metric system, which is based on powers of 10:

Metric truckloads, which is (for example) 1000x a metric buttload.

Re:Truckload? (1)

xmod2 (314264) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712509)

If all six billion people on earth used hand calculators and performed calculations 24 hours a day and seven days a week, it would take 550,000 Truckloads of calculators.

Re:Truckload? (3, Funny)

hkmarks (1080097) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712779)

Assuming the information is stored on hard drives, and a hard drive weighs 700 grams, and the truck in question is a Ford Super Duty, which has a capacity of 6,120 lbs, and the hard drives have a nominal capacity of 500 decimal gigabytes, I estimate the amount of information per truckload to be approximately 1.76 petabytes.

If they were using an 18-wheeler I'd really be impressed.

at least complete the conversion (1)

Achoi77 (669484) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714075)

89.6 LOCs

Hrm.. that's a lot of Warhammer Online information. Perhaps if you've used CD's instead of hard drives. Lets see... a cd weighs 16 grams... which leads to 115.823133 terabytes... 5.79 LOCs

Hrm, that's still a lot of Warhammer Online information..

Re:Truckload? (1)

dreddnott (555950) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713907)

Trouble is when you shorten it to LoC, my mind automatically expands the acronym to Lord of Change, the Chaos God Tzeentch's Greater Daemon.

Re:Truckload? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23724641)

Thank god I'm not the only one...

Maybe they will support ATI hardware properly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23712163)

Unlike the recent launch of AoC. Abysmal game programming.

DAOC 2 ?? (5, Interesting)

setrops (101212) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712383)

When they put the game on hold some months back and stopped the beta program I was a bit intrigued on what they may doing. It looks like they took feedback from the beta players (mostly DAOC players?) and implemented siege warfare, keeps, realm abilities and other features directly ripped out from DAOC. This could be bad, really bad.

Well let's hope Mythic learned their lessons from the mistakes that they did with DAOC and not repeat them. Who know it may be a great game.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712675)

"This could be bad, really bad."

They're not just listening to old DAOC players, they're listening to people who play all kinds of MMOs. The #1 thing that they're doing is looking at what WoW does wrong and they are trying to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

Wrong approach (2, Insightful)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715051)

They should first concentrate on what WOW did right. Looking for mistakes in WOW is going to devolve into being saddled down with personal nits. In other words if they look for what WOW did wrong they will not get a good picture simply because what was done wrong is so overshadowed by what went right.

I have nothing wrong with trying to make a better WOW, but you don't do that by trying to find out what is wrong with it. The only thing really wrong with WOW is that its size hobbles other companies trying to compete in the fantasy genre. If anything that size stifles others as VC money is more likely going to examine what happened to recent offerings like LOTRO and DDO and say "if they couldn't make a dent or sizable population what could?"

Re:Wrong approach (2, Informative)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716601)

Except that WoW has never handled PvP well. That's one of the major things that the fine folks behind WAR have looked at and made sure to get right.

Re:Wrong approach (2, Insightful)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717497)

All that WOW seems to have done right is rehash all of the concepts present in earlier games in a new format with very few problems. I tried it at release and didn't last the first month because it offered nothing new, just old concepts redone in an easy but boring format. Its been marketed to a massive audience of former Blizzard customers and done extremely well I admit, but most of those customers have never played another MMO to compare it to.They will get bored and move to a new game when the right one comes along that does things at least as well as WOW.

To quote a woman I met recently "Oh my husband and I have been playing WOW for about 8 months now, but we are getting a bit bored. Are you saying there are *other* mmorpgs like WOW out there?"

Overall as someone who has played dozens of MMOs, WOW is of minimal interest to me. If you want an excellent MMO, try City of Heroes in my opinion. Yes, like WOW its not very good for PvP so don't go there if thats your thing, but otherwise its the best engineered game I have ever seen, and has proven extremely enjoyable to me and my friends ever since its release.

Mythic has the advantage of its experience with Dark Age of Camelot, and thats a tremendous heads up with regards to RvR. They set the standard and no one has come even close to DAOC in that regard, although Mythic did overengineer things in the end and ruin it in many people's opinion

DAOC in its first few years was the best gaming experience I have had or am ever likely to have. I can hope WHO comes close or exceeds it, but I doubt thats possible.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (2, Interesting)

DerWulf (782458) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716811)

judging from the disappointing (not bad, but not on par with expectations) Age of Conan I'd advise developers to look at what WoW does right first if they want to have a fighting chance. RvR could be a clusterfuck if the realms are not balanced. Then everyone will suddenly cry for instanced PvP because open is just so damn unfair (the reverse of what people crying about on the WoW forums). WAR and meaningful PvP? I'm not convinced until I see it ... and if it is truly the case the devs should be prepared because any balance issues will be magnified a thousand times by that.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718593)

Because clearly, WoW is driving Blizzard broke because no-one plays it.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (1)

BlowHole666 (1152399) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712787)

I must say Mytic did pvp correctly in DAoC for the most part. None of this guild v guild crap or mini games. They let anyone join at any time. No waiting in line. Somethings they did do wrong though, for example hooking Realm points (bounty points) to the pve world via artifacts. I would love for a game to mimic DAoC's style of RvR I think they did it right. However this is my opinion so people have the right to disagree. It all depends what games you have played in the past.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (3, Informative)

ferat (971) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712865)

The only real mistakes that mythic made with daoc were the atlantis expansion and crafting.

I have high hopes for WAR.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (2, Insightful)

BlowHole666 (1152399) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712991)

Amen. It was a slap in the face when mythic made crafting easier and let everyone craft everything on the same character. It just said to the hardcore players who started playing in the beginning that we do not care about you anymore. Atlantis... well i have mixed feelings on that. It went from very hard and needing large groups to complete to needing only a 4-8 man group, or just RvRing the whole thing.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (1)

Gernok (977745) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716969)

The time sink for leveling Artifacts, scroll drops, artifact drops, completing ML's.... Painful!

Then I think back to pre-NF and just the sheer amount of people it out to take a relic (above 300 per side)and when I left there wasn't even combined those numbers in the Frontiers. That was insane!

I've still got a screen shot of nearly 300 albs on a keep my guild had... That aside, I still preferred to hunt outside of Emain (to much zerging) or in C-Forest (though old frontiers it was one nasty run to get to through P-Mountains).

The constant bickering though over "adding into a fight", respecting the 8v8, 1v1, etc, really was a burden on the concept of RvR.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (1)

setrops (101212) | more than 5 years ago | (#23723341)

I do agree with you that Atlantis was by far the worse expansion for an MMO ever. It was made even worse by Mythic's attitude towards the players. You have to remember doing that ML9 and not getting credit on phoenix because someone's pet had the killing blow. Mythic's answer was do it again!

WTF was that !! Are you serious? So you had to gather another 40+ people and do the whole thing over again and it took anywhere form 4 to 8 hours.

Atlantis was bad but the awfulness of it was increased one hundred folds by Mythic's arrogance and bugs.

Like I said let's hope they have learned from their mistakes.

Re:DAOC 2 ?? (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 5 years ago | (#23757221)

I think most DAoC fans will agree that the basic fundamentals of keeps, RAs, and such were pretty good.

The problem was that Mythic screwed up some of the little details, in some cases in ways that killed the playerbase before Mythic fixed it. For the most part, it wasn't any particular part of RvR design even - it was a PvE expansion.

For those who played DAoC, I'm sure I don't need to say more and you know exactly which one I'm referring to.

For everyone else - Mythic's second expansion was a pure PvE grinding expansion that included some of Everquest's worst aspects (camping mobs with multi-hour respawn times for good loot), but it had MASSIVE impacts on Realm vs. Realm warfare. This combination led to a LOT of players quitting the game. Mythic eventually fixed ToA, but by then it was too late - the playerbase was gone.

There's only one important thing in the game... (2, Interesting)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712431)

How much PLAYER SKILL does it take to compete?

World of Warcraft is very cookie cutter -- X class will beat Y class, armor and weapons make a HUGE difference, etc.

I have been waiting for Darkfall Online for 6 years (and am still optimistic), but it seems like that will be the only game that fulfills the idea that an individual player can beat somebody else because of innate ability rather than what class you played.

That said, the only other good PvP game has been Ultima Online. I've tried EVERYTHING since then -- AC/EQ/AO/EQ2/WOW/AoC, and more that I forget.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (3, Informative)

effigiate (1057610) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713339)

You missed the other game by Mythic that was focused on PvP - Dark Age of Camelot. If Warhammer is as good at PvP as DAoC was, it will be great.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

The-Ixian (168184) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713921)

You apparently have not play DAoC, the other Mythic MMO.

That game's PvP was very much skill based since everyone could spec the same way and gear was basically accessable to anyone (unlike WoW which forced high-level raiding for the best gear) since very few items in that game are bound to the player.

I am really looking forward to Warhammer. DAoC has been the only MMO to-date that has held my attention for more than a few months, let alone the 5+ years I have been playing.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714191)

I signed up for the beta... let's see :)

I am willing to give it a chance, but at least you understand my frustration on lack of PvP options.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

alisoul (923488) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715203)

since everyone could spec the same way and gear was basically accessable to anyone
otherwise known as cookie cutter - fotm filled pvp really isn't that great. nothing has held a candle to mmo pvp since UO.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715749)

People are still waiting for Darkfall? You haven't all realised that it's a Dawn styled hoax yet? Heck, the original website was an almost 1:1 ripoff of the Shadowbane site.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715789)

The optimist in me says it's real, and I hope that it is.

The realist in me gave up a long time ago -- but it doesn't mean that I don't still want a game LIKE what it has promised to come out.

Either way, I will count myself in the camp of "a believer" -- since well, there's no harm in thinking that way.

Besides it seems like a lot of effort (movie, media, etc) to perpetuate a hoax, and they don't even have any Google ads up to let them make money off of it.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

Flyin Fungi (888671) | more than 5 years ago | (#23720491)

Player skill actually takes a bit. Some people think it is just click one button and win (ok some encounters with certain classes are like that). For instance healers are hectic to play, heal the group, heal the MT if you are assigned to him, debuff those with afflictions, conserver mana, don't cast too high rank heals, make sure your heals over time are refreshed, battle rez if you need to, rebuff tanks that die and come back, run away from the giant monster that is chasing you now. And thats only PvE, PvP has other stuff too. Yes you have to do all that. It takes some skill in order to understand the class and a lot and I mean A LOT of concentration. I'm sorry but you don't seem to have a very good understanding of the classes in wow. You may find that there are some things sterotypical about the game. Mages = boom, warriors = tank, priests = healers. But they really broke the mold of the game with all of the other specs there are out there and you can change from healing to damage without having to level a new character. Shadow priests, tanking feral druids, tanking pallies. WoW is also very noob friendly to getting good gear to compete with to get even better gear. You just need to put a hour or two a day to start building up a nice collection of purples and you'll get them in a few weeks or less. WoW is by no means perfect but still is the best balanced MMO have played in a long while.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

HellProphet (1045990) | more than 5 years ago | (#23726745)

UO Gamers Hybrid join the party ultima online for free :) If you choose to let me know I'll check for reply, I can assist getting started(hooked) again, lol.

Re:There's only one important thing in the game... (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 5 years ago | (#23726981)

I'm past UO right now ... I did a bunch of different 3rd party servers, but for now I'm just trying to spend my time wisely :)

ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23712547)

Thanks, that article and its description of crafting makes me not want to play this clone mmo even more.

Especially the part where the dev guy says "well i dont want to play that way, so screw them, i will make the game the way i want"

Re:ugh (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712707)

So, it's a clone MMO. Except the dev says "We don't want to do it like all the other MMOs do it."

Do you not want to play it because it's like all other MMOs, or because it's nothing like other MMOs?

Re:ugh (0, Troll)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712775)

Go back to WoW you fucking carebear.

Re:ugh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23713433)

screw wow, wow is a kiddy game. Right now I went back to eve for the time being.

I like pvp, and have been pvp'ing ever since there was an internet and online gaming. So carebear yourself. What I dont want in an mmo is a flat one dimensional experience.. if i want that i'll play an fps thank you very much.

When i call it a clone mmo, by that i mean its the same old wow like simpleton's game, like all the crap that's being pushed out these days.

AoC for example.

I've been spoiled by WoW (3, Insightful)

merchant_x (165931) | more than 5 years ago | (#23712587)

WoW hit the sweet spot for MMO's in that they made it challenging enough to keep hardcore types interested but easy enough for their casual friends to get into and experience quite a bit of the content with them. I'm hoping WAR can do the same thing and perhaps improve the experience a bit. WoW is starting to feel a bit long in the tooth and seems to have lost it's focus a bit. If WAR can deliver what WoW is missing before Blizzard gets out the next expansion, they could have the makings of a very successful launch.

Biter Old EnBer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23712853)

I wish WAR lotsa luck, just hope EA allows them to stay online for more than 2 years. But that probably will not be the case.

Re:I've been spoiled by WoW (0, Troll)

CogDissident (951207) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713133)

Before the next expansion? They're likely not going to do anything except raise the level cap and put more end-game content in, that most casual players will never see.

Re:I've been spoiled by WoW (2, Insightful)

MrPink2U (633607) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714845)

Before the next expansion? They're likely not going to do anything except raise the level cap and put more end-game content in, that most casual players will never see.
Yes, I'd call that an expansion. What else would you like?

Re:I've been spoiled by WoW (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716389)

The point is that, despite flashy things like Death Knights, WotLK is ten more levels of the same old game. WoW is very tired right now. It's as much of a grind as Everquest was.

There are still stupid features in it that have been in there since day one, like weapon skill and armor repair costs (neither exist in Age of Conan).

Re:I've been spoiled by WoW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718849)

Actually, the end-game is getting a bit of an overhaul in WotLK, to make it more casual-friendly.

heh (2, Funny)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713669)

Warhammer Online Information by the Truckload
Don't they know that the internet isn't a big truck you can throw stuff in?! It's a series of tubes!

Not Impressed ... Yet (5, Interesting)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713713)

In full disclousure I am a former DAOC player:

Warhamma' has one major, GLARING, OUTSTANDING, AND IDIOTIC failing that Mythic has time and time again told us the players is not an issue, yet we complained over and over (and still do to this day).

In Warhammer, there are only two factions (sides.) And I played BETA for 3 months I NEVER SAW A SINGLE, NON-CHAOS player. EVER. With only two sides the oldest problem MMO's face crops up, un-balanced populations.

Every 10 year old kid is going to "roll" Chaos. All the hard-core PvP'ers will roll Chaos. So for every 10 Chaos we'll get 1 person playing a dwarf for about a week; subsequently the dwarf cancels because they're outnumbered 30 to 1. DAOC had 3 factions so even if Midgard outnumbered Hibbies (Hibernian) the combined populations of bucket heads (Albion) and Hibbies outnumbered the fatties (midgard). A three-way battle provided an excellent mechanism for preventing population imbalances. (And isn't a three-way better then a two-way anyway?)

Faction stacking is going to be a serious issue with Warhamma, enough to kill the game at launch if not addressed and as usual, egotist know-it-alls claim they are smarter then the players, and in this case, smarter then basic statistic and math. They denyed population imbalances for years prior to and post Atlantais in DAOC. Time and time again we would show them the population problems (on one server there was an 4 to 1 ratio of Mid's to any of the other two. The other two combined only equaled 1/2 the number of mids.) Their arrogance keeps their head in the sand and with Warhamma, unless they fire some of those twits are gonna bury their own product at launch (reminds me of Star Wars....)

We see it already in WoW with battlegroups (clusters of servers) starting to stack as people transfer to "the horde or alliance dominated" battlegroups.

At least WoW instanced the majority of PvP\RvR to control population imbalances but as far as Warhamma is sizing up, failure is written all over it before it even launches... Hell the gearing imbalances still linger from the AV debacle. On Stormstike I have both alliance and horde (Archimonde and Scilla) and When I queue up for WSG I am standing next to 70's with an average resilience (a key PvP gear statistic) of 70. When I log into my horde on Scilla and head into WSG the average is 200. Most in full s3 gear and very few without at least 4 pieces of s2. Full BG rewards because they had such an advantage during the AV transition (now fixed but the damage is done.)

Basic math doesn't lie and without major re-work I see no future for Warhamma.

When you paint a situation with only two clear cut sides, even the foot steps of a moth will break any hope of balance.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

Cinnamon Whirl (979637) | more than 5 years ago | (#23713993)

I thought it was a shame they didn't choose Skaven. Chaos seems like a relatively weak faction from a story point of view.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (3, Interesting)

Achoi77 (669484) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714401)

That's never going to change.

In almost all mainstream MMOs, the most dominant race played are the 'most normal' ones. And then after that you have the most 'hardcore' races played by the 'serious' gamers.

In WoW, while NE were popular, humans were clearly the most commonly played race on the Alliance. Dwarves and Gnomes the least played. On the Horde, it was the undead, them being the most 'human' looking, but in a hardcore eeevil fashion. The trolls being the least played race.

EQ had the same pattern - humans being the most commonly played race, trolls and gnomes/dwarves the least.

Also keep in mind that a lot of people were afraid that everybody was going to roll undead during launch - and at first it was true, but as more and more people signed up to play the population evened out after a while, with humans at the top.

But when this game launches, I wouldn't be too suprised to see when a bunch of wow expats playing the opposite faction that they have played in WoW. I myself am looking forward to rolling a dwarf.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716829)

In WoW, while NE were popular, humans were clearly the most commonly played race on the Alliance.

All the stats I've seen put Nelves and Humans as being roughly as popular (within a couple percent), and together they represent roughly half of all players in the game. Still, I'd call them both "normal" races, or more to the point "pretty", one just has pointy ears for a tiny bit of escapism and fantasy.

That was pre-expansion, I haven't really looked (cus I don't care) about the new situation. Obviously the blood elves and draenai are going to be popular. And they're both fairly 'normal' and pretty.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

Liquidrage (640463) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714553)

A lot of the cool RvR is isntanced in WAR. Also, I don't buy for a second chaos will outnumber empire and co. The same "evil" wins ruled pre WoW thoughts too and Alliance outnumbered them by quite a bit. The side with "normal" looking races will get a majority of the pre-existing guilds coming over, a trend that just doesn't show itself in betas.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

myowntrueself (607117) | more than 5 years ago | (#23714811)

You clearly have some experience with this game as it currently stands so...

Is it true that it uses a *turn* based combat system??

Thanks!

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 5 years ago | (#23715413)

I find the "2 sides" thing horrid as well, but for a different reason.
This is WARHAMMER! Everyone hates everyone else. Why have these stupid "alliances" when you can KILL THEM? Any guild/player should be able to group with any other, but should also be able to kill any other. This would also solve the population imbalance problem.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23715649)

They have said in multiple press releases that the faction populations will be forcibly balanced. Not sure how that balances with a paid subscription and customer choice, but there you go.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716851)

I was following along (with but a shred of hope for your post) until you started claiming game designers think they are "smarter then basic statistic and math."

I don't see statistics nor math in your post.

Oh and your ending line sucks.

It's especially priceless that you're claiming the game designers are at fault here because of arrogance, when at the end of the day population imbalance comes down to which side the actual players actually choose, design aside.

But I guess you covered that angle with your assertion that "every 10 year old" will roll Chaos.

I guess it's telling that you worry about having to face the 10 year old WO subscriber.

Please mod parent down (1)

Liquidrage (640463) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718085)

He's either trolling or crazy. Or one other I'll leave till later.

Given that most of the beta has shifted across race dynamics (dwarf vs greenskin, chaos vs empire, elven factions), with only certain races available at certain times, he has certainly seen members of the other race in the three months he's beta tested. If he didn't he played with his monitor off.

Second, his WoW numbers are totally fabricated. His experiences there of "average" numbers are made up. That's painstaking research to try and do, know way possible to get it 100% accurate, and based on his post and common sense no way he knows that or even enough to guess at it. Anyone that has played WoW PvP in any serious amount will know he's lying. You don't get S3 (Season 3) gear from battlegrounds, you get S1 gear. S3 gear requires you Arena where there is no balance issue at all (arena is not faction based in any way), or since patch 2.4 from Tier 6 content where you can token trade from PvE content.

He made up some gear imbalance from AV. If you don't know, the more you do battlegrounds the more points you get. You get some from losing, but more for winning. But there's a finite amount of gear to get from battlegrounds. It's all S1 gear, and it's not hard to get even if you lose over and over.

So please, when I replied earlier he was just a 2 I was expecting to see modded down. But he's now a 5 that is nothing but lies. Obvious fabrications of someone that is most likely upset that in his eye you NEED at least 3 races else HIS worries are going to kill everything about the game. When he sucked in BG's in WoW it wasn't him sucking it was the other guys had better gear. He's someone with every made up excuse in the book, the problem is the only place where they are real in his in mind.

It is true that some PvP servers are shifted one way or another. And yet others are balanced just fine. That's normal. Some severs are going to randomly have a bigger imbalance then the normal amount, and in some cases those will get amplified as people flock to the winner. In WoW, there's just as many Alliance servers as there are Horde servers like that. And then plenty of balanced servers. That says more about the people playing then the balance of the game. And there's no reason to think WAR will be any different.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (2, Informative)

joelpt (21056) | more than 5 years ago | (#23719951)

I believe they are trying to address this problem by adding NPC 'helpers' to the weaker side in PVP/RVR battles where the population is unbalanced.

That won't help the "ghost town" phenomenon that can result from population distribution problems, but it should hopefully make RvR "fair".

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

Kaukomieli (993644) | more than 5 years ago | (#23722601)

In Warhammer, there are only two factions (sides.) And I played BETA for 3 months I NEVER SAW A SINGLE, NON-CHAOS player. EVER. With only two sides the oldest problem MMO's face crops up, un-balanced populations.

While I agree with you on that point, I doubt instancing is a good solution.

To add to your statement: The playerbase has often provided Mythic with creative and balanced ideas on how to adress population imbalance (and relogging to the winning team) by relating the numbers and strengths of NPCs in RvR-zones to the relation of players online/playing in each realm.

I think instancing is not a good solution, as it takes the uncertainty from the equation, where one does not know if he (and his companions) might confront a larger enemy any time soon. Especially in DAoC one could witness one group of players (who played together regularly for some time and had top of the line equipment and abilities) fought two groups of enemies where for a long time no one knew who would win.
Instancing just by numbers of players is one of the worst ideas in MMOs ever. (and could as well be done in a LAN-game with a lobby...)

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23723371)

Either you lie about not having seen non-chaos players or you lie about having played WAR beta for 3 months.

I've played the WAR beta a bit, and have both played and encountered other order characters.
Chaos has probably been in the majority most of the time, but far from always. The PvP I've seen has had a working balance.

Both stunties and humies have some seriously cool classes. There may well be some side imbalance at lauch as too many roll greenskin, but in the long run I believe order will outnumber chaos.

Re:Not Impressed ... Yet (1)

wheeda (520016) | more than 5 years ago | (#23726085)

I have a solution to the population imbalance: Give balance modifiers to newly created characters. So if there is too many horde, new characters would get a couple less stamina points and alliance would get a couple extra stamina points.

The real question (1)

geek (5680) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716387)

Will it run in Wine? Age of Conan has taken every step possible to ensure it wont run in Wine. WoW runs great in Wine which keeps me playing it. If Warhammer plays nicely with Wine I'm sold, regardless of imbalances and bugs. God knows WoW has had more imbalances and bugs than any game in history, I sincerely doubt Warhammer could be any worse.

Re:The real question (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 5 years ago | (#23757321)

Sadly, Mythic has a pretty bad track record here. With DAoC, a given engine (most expansions came with an improved graphics engine) would not be supported by WINE or even Cedega until it was 1-2 expansions out of date.

Pay your L.Ron tax! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23721145)

That's right, WarHammer is a scientology franchise. Every time you pay your monthly tax to Warhammer what you're really saying is "Tom Cruise, I love you man!".

Playing this game and bitching about scientology is like wearing a leather jacket while marching outside a meat factory with a "Meat is Murder" sign in your hands.
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