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OEMs Looking to Ubuntu for Netbook Market

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the big-bad-microsoft-gets-left-behind dept.

Portables 224

Anon writes "Mark Shuttleworth provides much more detail today about development of the Ubuntu netbook platform, and says OEMs are calling Canonical when they want to start building netbooks. Channelweb notes: 'It's actually a big deal. For example, Dell CEO Michael Dell has been carrying around an early version of a Dell mini-notebook, and referring to it as the device for the next billion Internet users [...] Asus has become an industry rock star by using GNU Linux to power its Eee PC. HP's niche Mini note runs SLED 10 Linux. The iPhone, of course, doesn't run Microsoft software. Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?'"

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224 comments

They are listening (3, Insightful)

snl2587 (1177409) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716521)

And here comes the next round from a company on it's way out the door and no longer truly innovating: litigation!

Re:They are listening (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716701)

and patents!

Re:They are listening (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717667)

I don't believe Microsoft will counterattack through the legal system so much as they will have to start giving the licenses away for a much cheaper price.

A big problem is that Vista is too much of a pig to run on these lightweight machines, so they either give XP or a mobile version of windows away for nothing and further cement their lastest OS's status as a turkey or lose market share altogether.

It's hard to see a winning scenario here for them, at least until they can develop an OS that isn't so resource hungry. By then it might be too late.

Re:They are listening (5, Interesting)

amirulbahr (1216502) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718101)

Which raises the question: What are the competition watchdogs around the world going to do about this?

Here in Australia, ASUS has somehow managed to price its Eee PC 900 with XP Home cheaper than the Linux version by about $50. They claim that it is justified by the difference in storage capacity (12 GB in the XP version versus 16 GB in the Linux one).

This reeks of anti-competitiveness, yet not a word to be heard from the ACCC (Australia's consumer and competition watchdog).

Ubuntu (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716523)

It's the PHP of linux distros!

Re:Ubuntu (1)

Khaed (544779) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717707)

Pretty much everywhere and easy to use?

Re:Ubuntu (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718053)

Yeah, that and it sucks balls, is revered by idiots and sucks your dad's cum out of your mom's ass. Yeah.

Of course they do.. (0)

nikostheater (956769) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716533)

Of course they do...they are busy trying to sell Vista,Zune and stuff.... And laughing at the price of the first gen iPhone of course...and throwing chairs..and..feeling sad about Bill leaving Microsoft..

I'm looking for buttsex! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716539)

Christ, I love Greek! Women just don't seem to understand that a man can find just as much pleasure in the warm confines of a well- muscled ass as they can in the satin embrace of a well-wetted cunt. Maybe we men have conditioned them too well to ignoring one hole for the other: nonetheless, every man I've talked to about it loves Greek and every woman who I've talked to about it has been less than enthusiastic. So imagine my surprise last weekend when Kathleen treated me to the joys of anal sex in what must be the first time in five or six years.

The night started our strangely. Kathleen had just finished re- arranging her large library and was exhausted. As suits my biological clock, I was just coming awake at 10 PM when she was turning in. She invited me to bed and I politely declined: I was horny as usual and told her I'd keep her awake. After a couple of more requests from her, I stripped and crawled in beside her. Kathleen loves to snuggle and wasted no time in curling her small body up next to mine. I turned and kissed her. She was oddly responsive for her tired state, and teased me with a hint of tongue in her kisses. I reached down to feel her muff and found it just beginning to rev as her right hand slipped down her belly to her clit.

I took up what has become my customary position between her legs - kneeling and using my cock as a sex toy to tickle her lower labia and the entrance to her cunt. But this time I let my aim wander lower to the wonderful curve where ass, crotch, and leg meet. I rubbed my cock against this soft crescent and expanded the stroke to brush against the entrance to her ass. I noticed that every time that my prick touched her rosebud, her strokes on her clit quickened. It wasn't long before I was pressing the tip of my cock against her asshole.

Surprise! My cock slipped easily into her ass until the entire head was buried inside, and just as I was about to pull out and apoligize, she handed me a bottle of sex lubricant and said "What the fuck? Why not?". I pulled back and poured the lubricant on my hard cock and noticed her pussy was swollen and very wet. I worked my cock back into its previous nest. It was so easy. I could feel her ass muscles relaxing and opening for me. I eased ever so slowly deeper. Such heaven! Like a warm, wet hand gripping all around my prick - so much tighter than pussy, and delightful in an entirely different way. I could feel her hips grind against me as I worked the last of my seven-plus inches into her back door. Realizing where I was and how long it had been since I'd known this pleasure, I had to fight to pull the reigns in on my orgasm.

It seemed like forever - my slow rocking pulling my cock almost full-length out of her ass before easing it back in until my balls rested against her firm buns. Her right hand furiously massaged her clit and her left hand played at the entrance of her cunt, pressing on the full length of her labia. And all the while my cock was enveloped in a firm net of gripping muscles that wrestled to bring the cum from me. "It's so weird," she said as she searched for the grip on her own orgasm. Suddenly, it was upon her. I felt her ass open up like a mouth that was just to blow up a ballon. "Are you close?" she hissed. "No," I grunted. She was close, tho'. Too close to stop. I felt her stiffen and lurch under me. "Uuhhhh! Come on you bastard! Fill my ass!" she yelled as she dug her nails into my back. Amazing what a little dirty talk will do - from that special nowhere where good men hide their orgasms until their lovers are ready, my load bolted from my crotch to my brain and back to my flushed balls. I gripped the pillow with my teeth and jerked my neck back and forth and tried not to deafen Kathleen when my cum blasted out of my cock like water from a firehose. The rush of jism racing up my tube seemed to last for stroke after stroke until sweaty Kathleen gasped, grunted, and pushed me from on top of her. Since I have a little anal experience myself, I knew the sudden discomfort of having something in your ass after you've orgasmed. I considerately slipped out of her despite not having finished my own orgasm to my complete satisfaction.

I kissed her and thanked her for her special gift, but she pushed me away. "Go wash off and fuck my pussy," she said " I feel like something's undone." So after a quick and thorough shower, I returned to the futon where her dripping, swollen twat waited for my not-quite-recovered cock.

And that's another story...

Similarities (0)

paulatz (744216) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716559)

Someone thinks people will use WinCE just because it looks like windows xp; but Vista doesn't look like windows xp either.

But... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716609)

....will it run Linux?

ASUS Eee PC (5, Interesting)

murp (1304761) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716631)

Actually, if you read the latest Distrowatch Weekly [distrowatch.com] , they say that Linux on the Eee PC is almost a thing of the past.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (0, Troll)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716751)

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Microsoft is in the last stage now.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717079)

I wish you were in the last stage.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717533)

They are winning!?

Re:ASUS Eee PC (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717769)

Microsoft is loosing its death grip on the PC market. They are having to drag the loyal customer base kicking and screaming to Vista, and the biggest disruptive product surprises of the year (iPhone and eee) have nothing to do with them.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717941)

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you start quoting Gandhi to feel better about yourself."

Define win (1)

mrwolf007 (1116997) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717975)

Is everbody using linux the "win"-situation?
Well, i also offer it preinstalled as an alternative to windows (and even add the propritary gfx drivers and some user-wanted software).
On the other hand i dont usually recommend it.
I dont really like the idea of selling linux, i prefer to use it.
Someone with no linux knowledge will probably just be coming around to often asking for help (you know the time and money thing?).
I give advice freely in the local lug, but this just doesnt really scale into a pc-shop.
And you know the goddamn thing about it? Probably linux will win the sub-notebook market and the mobile phone market just as it won the router market, but nobody will really notice or even bother or even know whats its running.
Face it, we are weirdos doing things most people dont understand and thus often enough fear.
People dont usually understand what i do when i look in to dsl router via telnet. Not even when i drop to cmd to figure out the ip address via ipconfig. Stuff that looks weird, but well, thats what the "guys who get the thing to work do*".
You think youll look less like a weirdo if do that stuff on a phone or subnote?

*Call it Hacker/technical personell/whatever

Re:ASUS Eee PC (5, Informative)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716837)

Actually, if you read the latest Distrowatch Weekly, they say that Linux on the Eee PC is almost a thing of the past.
Which is especially strange since the linux version of every model of the eeePC is outselling the windows version on Amazon [amazon.com] . I would say it's the larger hard drive, but the older model linux version is selling better too and it has a slower clock speed than the XP one. I don't know, I don't pay attention to this stuff.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (2, Informative)

tknd (979052) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717363)

A lot of people are buying the linux version for the larger SSD and installing Windows xp themselves.

I've tried the default Xandros linux and it didn't cut it for me. For browsing the net and doing simple things like reading a document it is fine. It will even read your usb thumb drives and other things without issues. But it is hard to customize and does not like you going about installing your own software. I expect that Ubuntu for netbooks will be much easier to customize and will likely be a real replacement for the large laptop or desktop.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717865)

The OS isn't too bad if you ditch the simple interface, though there are numerous better distros to put on it, K/X/Ubuntu at or very near the top.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718145)

Probably some sort of deal - we give you Windows for such and such, you push ads for us. Linux got plenty developers but few marketers to compete with Microsoft, it's not so easy to convert one into the other. Still Linux keeps improving so I figure it just means Linux will be a lot better than Windows by the time people realize that it is.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716917)

well, i never trusted Asus in the first place(for personal reasons).

They've gone to the dark side, the linux version was just posturing, to get microsoft to cave, on pulling windows XP support.

Let's face it, getting Linux on home broad band routers was pushing it. getting linux on internet only laptops? with touch screen inputs? you can bet microsoft will help those OEMs 'see the light' of putting clunky, windows OSes on their devices.

At least as geeks, we can promote Linux as a 'desktop replacement' for those people who always come down with the 'latest' viruses and rootkits, or help them turn an 'old junker' PC into a smoothwall firewall to help keep hackers out, and maybe even to keep roommates from coming to fights over P2P downloading by showing them how much better VoIP and gaming works with smoothwalls QoS capabilities...

when these 'mysterious' OEMs announce their linux products, they'll see the light if balmer has to throw a few chairs around for them to see it.

The link reads like a rant (3, Interesting)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716931)

Like the author didn't find the linux eee booth and decided that was a lack of marketing push, a step on the road to deprecating linux on the eee.

I don't see this at all yet, and if I did it would not worry me. There are plenty other and bigger OEMs fishing for the premium experience you get with linux on the netbook now. Asus got an early lead but if they want to throw their advantage away and return to differentiating their product only by price and color that is their right. There are more than enough other mfrs eager to push the mindshare across the threshold and bring about the unchained era of personal computing.

It will be chaotic for a while. That's when the interesting things happen.

Difficult to beat the price (2, Insightful)

feranick (858651) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716981)

When user see that they can get more with less money, it's a difficult deal to resist...

Re:ASUS Eee PC (2, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717155)

Do not get me wrong - I'm all for Linux. But I guess the mini-notebook producers have put Linux there because they didn't need anybody's permission to do it. First. Second. I think they also tried to provoke M$ to get some bargaining chip in negotiations.

Now that new market have opened, rest assured, M$ will do anything to grab it.

After all they already brought XP from dead...

They needed no permission (2, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718235)

This is exactly it. Manufacturers are learning that if they ignore the WinTel platform definitions and just give us the good tech that makes sense, we'll gobble it up.

Some of us will even think of new and clever things to do with it. It sounds scary, but that's where you build the brand values that matter in the long run.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (5, Informative)

notdotcom.com (1021409) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717189)

..but if you read Linux Format, the cover story this month is the Eee PC and the Eee 900. From (Linux Format's TFA: "A current poll of Eee users shows that only 29 percent are running MS Windows."

Re:ASUS Eee PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717989)

The ASUS Eee PC is a great machine but would be better with a better built-in keyboard. The ones sold in my city in Canada only supported linux with English or Chinese. No foreign European languages were currently supported by ASUS/Linux at that time according to the Linux/ASUS help screens in the computer

Re:ASUS Eee PC (1)

Heather D (1279828) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717407)

It's marketing strategy. Linux helped them get an edge and introduce the older model, now they've got competition and are hedging their position against it. If their competitors get market traction expect Asus to begin pushing Microsoft as the "Mature solution" and probably sell the fact that it runs older games and their DRM'ed media better or some such.

Re:ASUS Eee PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717721)

It's contrary to every other report from the show.

2008 is the year (4, Funny)

lyml (1200795) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716665)

See, I told you soo; 2008 is the year of linux on the desktop. For real this time.

Re:2008 is the year (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717043)

For a certain stretch of the definition of the word "desktop", I suppose.

Re:2008 is the year (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718247)

Well... if not the desktop, it definitely is the year of Linux on the laptop!

We'll know next year (1)

russlar (1122455) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717523)

If people stop saying "This is the year..." next year, we'll know that this year really was the year.

Until then, it's still just a meme.

Is anyone paying attention in Redmond? (4, Insightful)

sconeu (64226) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716681)

"Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?"

Yes.

At least OLPC [engadget.com] and Asus [engadget.com] are.

Re: Is anyone paying attention in Redmond? (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716767)

Whoops! I though TFS asked "Is anyone paying attention TO Redmond!

Re: Is anyone paying attention in Redmond? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717671)

"Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?"

Yes.

At least OLPC [engadget.com] and Asus [engadget.com] are.
They are too busy writing up new patents.

If ya think about it.. (5, Insightful)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716705)

It really is pretty simple here - there are those who want overcoded, overprotective, overhyped operating systems. And then, there are those who want to use their computer.

The eee, Netbook remix, ume-launcher and all OSS-friendly friends fit into the latter. Let's face it - the operating system is slowly melting into the background. Vista, for instance, is trying to kick and scream its way back to the front of your widescreen LCD - but sooner or later, people are going to 'ho-hum' them into oblivion, and get on their Intarwebs the easier way.

P.S. lolsauce.

Re:If ya think about it.. (0, Flamebait)

jmcbain (1233044) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716877)

How old are you, kid? When you say there are those who want to *use their computer*, are you referring to those of us who want to use full desktop applications, like word processors, Matlab, Powerpoint, Photoshop, g++, video games, and Maya? Will be able to *use our computers* on these netbooks? Or do you think the only thing we can do is surf the web looking for lulz? Grow up.

Re:If ya think about it.. (2, Funny)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716953)

I'm referring to those who want to do the basics - e-mail, WWW, maybe some light word processing - on the go.

Does that clarify, Daddy? =p

P.S. lolsauce on the age factor remarks. How petty of someone to assume that people of a certain age group all think a certain way.

Re:If ya think about it.. (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717695)

<quote>I'm referring to those who want to do the basics - e-mail, WWW, maybe some light word processing - on the go.</quote>

you know... pretty much all of the consumer portable market... and desktop for that matter.

Re:If ya think about it.. (3, Insightful)

RMH101 (636144) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716993)

you know you're enormously in the minority, right? I mean, I'm in there with you, as are a lot of /. readers, but compared to the general public, we're really a very small minority. desktop email/web/photos/mp3s/minor document editing - that's *it* for most people. And who's to say that's wrong?

Re:If ya think about it.. (5, Funny)

Locklin (1074657) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717125)

Funny, I write graphics accelerated visuo-motor psychology experiments and collect data using Python, do data analysis in R, and write papers/presentations in LaTeX, all using less of a computer than those netbooks (when I don't feel like being chained to my workstation).

Maybe you are the one who needs to *grow up* and get over the *clickety clickety* toy software.

see how fun pointless insults are?

Oh yeah, get off my lawn!

Re:If ya think about it.. (5, Insightful)

Nulifier (1227312) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717797)

I don't think you'll be running Photoshop, Matlab, video games, and Maya on a subnotebook. Subnotbooks are more geared towards the things that Linux does really well and it doesn't do any differently from Windows, like surfing the internet, reading email and word processing. The way that you can get people to be open to trying Linux on their main computer is showing them that it is not just a command line (every non-tech person I talk to thinks it is) and that it is as capable of being the full-fledged OS that we all know it is.

Re:If ya think about it.. (2, Insightful)

thekm (622569) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717149)

"It really is pretty simple here - there are those who want overcoded, overhyped, overprotective, operating systems. And then, there are those who want to use their computer."

...I thought I knew what operating system you were talking about until I got to "overprotective" and then you lost me, but I think my head was swapping in "secure" to mean the "overprotective" part, hence the mix-up. You can be "overprotective" and completely screw up security at the same time... like a father that is always barging into his daughter's parties to make sure that everything is safe, yet thinking she's safe at home he doesn't bother her much, so the guys sneak in through the window to get the freak on.

Linux critical mass (4, Interesting)

poopie (35416) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716715)

I'm sure that Microsoft and most hardware vendors are really not thrilled that customers aren't demanding exponentially faster machines with exponentially more RAM and disk space.

How do you drive customer upgrades to more bloaded OSes when customers are demanding devices with lower cpu/ram specs?

As the price of systems drops from thousands of dollars to hundreds of dollars, having to pay Microsoft hundreds of dollars for OS + Office licensing becomes a non-trivial fraction of total system cost.

Also, you can bet that the hardware manufacturer's profits on a $500 device are razor thin. If they can cut $20 to $100 or more off the cost by using Linux, it's worth it.

So, at this point, I have to wonder whether Microsoft is going to try to converge WinCE code with Vista code for Windows 7 to have a single OS that can run on phones / UMPCs / netbooks / laptops / desktops (or at least the same codebase even if CPUs aren't the same). That's probably going to be hard for Microsoft. I expect they'll try to reimplement apps in silverlight instead.

Re:Linux critical mass (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716853)

So, at this point, I have to wonder whether Microsoft is going to try to converge WinCE code with Vista code for Windows 7 to have a single OS that can run on phones / UMPCs / netbooks / laptops / desktops (or at least the same codebase even if CPUs aren't the same). That's probably going to be hard for Microsoft. I expect they'll try to reimplement apps in silverlight instead.


I'm sure that's what they'll want to do, but for Microsoft the chief problem is while everyone else is concentrating on mimimalistic systems whose specs were top-notch six years ago, everything in Microsoft's code base has been going the other way. By the looks of it, they're going to try to reposition Windows XP for low-end systems, because it will run reasonably well on these systems. Vista and Windows 7 are going to be no-shows. There's simply no evidence I can see that suggests that Windows 7 is going to be any less a resource hog that Vista.

And good luck to them recoding for Silverlight. I think they're going to need it.

Razor thin? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717817)

Most of these companies (asus, acer, etc) are taking in 10-20% profits. Nothing razor about those. But no sense in throwing away money. If they can lose Windows AND have a better platform, then they will do it. Finally, These are chinese companies. They all want to remove the American influence. Once MS is gone, it will be pretty easy to remove Intel and AMD and other American companies.

Stop the mind control (4, Insightful)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716719)

Just call it Linux. Calling it Gnu/Linux completely ignores the work that's gone into making Linux a household name. "Linux" is a weird enough name, throwing a little-known water buffalo that nobody knows how to pronounce is disastrous.

Re:Stop the mind control (5, Funny)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716749)

Maybe a new name would be best?

How about "Tux & Friends" ? :p

Re:Stop the mind control (5, Funny)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717487)

GNU/Linux is the new term to use over a bad breakup. Instead of the tired ol'

I faked every one of them!

you can say

And it's GNU/Linux!

then you storm out and slam the door. Can be used with soon-to-be ex-girlfriends and/or soon-to-be ex-bosses. Can be preceded with the phrase "And another thing:", which is more effective when spoken quite emphatically.

Re:Stop the mind control (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716803)

But I'm Richard Stallman, you insensitive clod!

Re:Stop the mind control (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716819)

You can call it what you want. But at least on Slashdot, you should try to be specific.

Re:Stop the mind control (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716871)

Don't worry, the consumers will be sufficiently confused by there being ubuntu linux, suse linux, fedora linux, mandriva linux and so on. The most damage it could do is that people mistake it for another distro. At any rate, I think GNU/Linux is either redundant or insufficient. "Linux" is enough to identify it, to describe my system KDE/x.org/GNU/Linux would be in order. I think all four are about equally fundamental to me, I don't think I'd run any other three if one was missing.

Re:Stop the mind control (1, Funny)

DittoBox (978894) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717217)

Lets apply that logic to, say, other operating systems:

- Mhac Oh Ess Ecks
- Wendoze Mee
- BeOhss
- Windows Ultimate Venti Burrito Triple Shot FTW!!!110#cough

Re:Stop the mind control (1)

Paaskonijn (1220996) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717689)

Mhac Oh Ess Ecks
Actually, it's pronounced Tehn, not Ecks.

Re:Stop the mind control (4, Funny)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717917)

It reminds me of when I was a young little shit-ling arguing over whether that megaman X game was "megaman ten" or "megaman-ex". Then megaman X-2 came out. That's when I decided that I will set afire every marketing co-worker I meet.

Re:Stop the mind control (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717747)

But I thought it was Bee Eee Oh Ess? Ahh screw it, I'm shelling out $200 for vista. /sarcasm

Re:Stop the mind control (0, Redundant)

arotenbe (1203922) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717341)

And if you have to call it GNU/Linux, at least get the punctuation right. It certainly isn't "GNU Linux", which would imply that Linux is a product of the GNU project; it even says so on their web site [gnu.org] .

Re:Stop the mind control (3, Informative)

xant (99438) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717763)

Christ, could anyone be more self-important than Richard Stallman? There are fifty-two justifications in that FAQ about the fucking name! If you feel that insecure about something, maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I agree with the GP, stop the mind control already.

Re:Stop the mind control (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718127)

I've never understood why Stallman feels so strongly about the naming thing. GPL says nothing about naming, does it? There are OSS projects being forked and renamed all the time, and nobody gets so angry about it. I mean sure, credit should be given to the where credit is due, but there's no requirement whatsoever for giving it in the name. So that should be the end of it, it shouldn't matter what you call your GNU+Linux combination.

So dear mister Stallman, just think about it as a fork. OK?

The Year of Netbook Linux is here (-1, Flamebait)

jmcbain (1233044) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716735)

Finally! we can all rest and exhale. 2008 is at last the year of netbook Linux. What took so long? Oh yeah, finding a niche where nobody expects high-quality professional software. Students and people from developing countries: get in line now. For the rest of you, when you're done playing with your netbooks and want to graduate to Photoshop, Office, Apache, desktop publishing, and software engineering, then give full-scale Linux, Windows, and MacOS a call.

Re:The Year of Netbook Linux is here (1)

lupis42 (1048492) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717235)

You know, probably 90% of all work done on computers is done in one either in a basic office app, (like Word, Excel, or Powerpoint), a browser (like Firefox, IE), an email and scheduling program (like Outlook/Notes), or a frontend for a server side app. That goes double for the in-browser apps. Not that there's anything wrong with the heavy desktop publishing stuff, but netbooks have nothing to do with playing, and if anything, I think it more likely that workplaces like mine will graduate to them then that users will graduate from them. After all, the hardware required to do Photoshop and heavy desktop publishing is mostly wasted on office apps, and is very expensive. Oh, and please don't talk about professional quality software. Professional quality software means nothing to me. I'm a professional, is the software I use "Professional Quality"? Some of it is downright crap, but I use it because changing now would be very difficult. Some of it is awesome. There is no correlation between profitability of the producer and quality of the software.

Re:The Year of Netbook Linux is here (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717241)

This comment disregards the whole point of these sub-notebooks:

Photoshop -- on a 10" screen? Really?
Apache -- running on a laptop? Perhaps as part of development...
Desktop publishing -- see Photoshop comment. Hard to do page layout when you can't see enough of the page.

As far as Office goes, again, you're missing the point. Sub-notebooks are fine for creating quick docs and even presentations, but the real work is to be done on a desktop with a much larger display.

Software engineering is a *great* use for this type of system. vi isn't all that resource hungry. :)

Sub-notebooks are for people who want to carry ready access to a few simple functions: web, email, quick document editing and the like. This are to augment your full desktop, not replace it.

What's a "Microsoft"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716781)

"'...Is anyone paying attention in Redmont?'"

Ah, ignorance is bliss...especially when you are a monopoly -- and think that you will be forever.

Their cellphone market is still pretty big...oh, wait, what about Android (and its competitor, whose name I always forget)?

Re:What's a "Microsoft"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717353)

ah, retard? microsoft is on more cellphones than apple is. i guess ignorance is bliss in your case.

what does this have to do with ubuntu? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716813)

The iPhone, of course, doesn't run Microsoft software. Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?'

if anyone is a bigger offender of lock-in it's apple. why do slashdotters act like it's some kind of victory? is this about a brand or about freedom as you all caw on about?

Re:what does this have to do with ubuntu? (5, Insightful)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717129)

I think in the case of Apple, it's the lingering mindset that they're the ailing underdog (which was true for a number of years). I think that as they become larger and stronger, they're losing some of the underdog image, and some people (such as yourself) are beginning to notice that they're just a company, and worse in some ways than the companies we love to ridicule for their success (Microsoft). People as a whole aren't logical. Expecting them to be consistent is further straining credulity, haha.

Re:what does this have to do with ubuntu? (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717761)

they might lock you in, but at least what they lock you into isn't a flaming turd

Re:what does this have to do with ubuntu? (1, Troll)

battjt (9342) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718089)

My Ubuntu Dell laptop is an open system of open APIs.

My macbook is a closed system of open APIs. (at least I can guess what is going on, even if I can't change it)

My w2k VM is a blackbox. I don't have a clue what it is doing or why or how to change it. (and that's why it is sandboxed in a VM)

Apple is a step better than microsoft from my perspective and it just works where Linux hasn't. It's been a long time of watching Linux develop and my dell ubuntu box still didn't work when I took it out of the box (I had to upgrade to 8.10 and delete the modem driver to get sound and suspend to work.)

Joe

LIMP (4, Insightful)

deanston (1252868) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716855)

OEM such as Dell and HP has always relied on MS to tell them when to upgrade hardware and drivers, but all the time half listen and looking for cheap outs, ergo the Vista flop. They've long lost the ability to innovate or motivate on their own nor understand their users. Linux companies ought to beware of established OEM as partners when they come knocking looking for help on that next sale to bail them out. As soon Ballmer slip a 'We'll give you a Windows XZ for a nickel!', the same OEMs will drop Linux on a dime. And will the same vendor offer dedicated support to help novice users upgrade the ever-evolving OS 3 times a year? To ensure long term success and real Linux traction, whoever the Linux company is supplying the netbook OS must keep up the positive user experience for years, not months.

a case of gaining a different victory than sought? (4, Interesting)

cptnapalm (120276) | more than 5 years ago | (#23716875)

It seems to be the case that, while the Year of the Linux Desktop may never arive, 2008 may be the Year of the Linux n(ote|et)book.

In trying to compete for the desktop, the open source guys have managed to get a strong foothold on the newest, latest, cheapest portables. Perhaps not the particular victory which was sought, but perhaps victory here would gradually translate into victory on the desktop. If people like what they use most of the time (Linux on the portable), it would be reasonable that they would want the same thing on their own desktops.

Re:a case of gaining a different victory than soug (2, Insightful)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717197)

I guess what I'm a little worried about is if the market perception becomes that Linux is only good for small portable computers/cell phones/etc, that the larger distros will stop paying as much attention to the desktop.

Re:a case of gaining a different victory than soug (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717791)

Then use another distribution? I guess I don't understand what there is to worry. As long as there is x86/x86_64 support in the linux kernel, desktop software will get developed. Using one distribution over another doesn't affect a certain program's dependency-wise. I'm an active Slackware coder myself, and if there's a linux program that only comes with lets say Ubuntu, like that Synaptic manager, and for some strange reason i want it on my Slackware distro, i just compile it and its dependencies, and throw it into a Slackware package.

If you are talking vendor support wise, I can understand. Drivers for more wireless cards might be opened up, but it doesn't mean another vendor will open up a pci TV card driver.

Re:a case of gaining a different victory than soug (1)

cptnapalm (120276) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717801)

A perfectly valid point of concern. I think, though, that at least some of the larger distributions, like Debian, would almost certainly remain.

To go somewhat off topic, the one concern I have is that the hardware companies start doing the Tivo and lock down their machines so they only do certain specified tasks. This would certainly be something a bit off on the horizon, but even the potential demise/greatly increased cost of a general purpose computer makes me anxious.

iPhone DOES run MS software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23716889)

[quote]The iPhone, of course, doesn't run Microsoft software. Is anyone paying attention in Redmond?[/quote] http://www.apple.com/iphone/enterprise/ [apple.com]

Re:iPhone DOES run MS software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718069)

How dare you introduce facts into the discussion. Bad AC. Bad!

Interface needs a make over (4, Insightful)

Macka (9388) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717031)

I've tried playing around with the Eeee PC, and while I can see the appeal, the GUI experience is a bit sucky. Gnome as is, just wasn't designed with a screen that small in mind, and it shows with the amount of real estate consumed by control buttons and what not in proportion to the data.

What's needed is a kind of minimalist mode, where contol buttons and menus don't get in the way, but can be exposed easily and intuitively as they're required. That's going to be a lot of very hard work.

Re:Interface needs a make over (3, Informative)

Drooling Iguana (61479) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717133)

The EeePC doesn't run Gnome by default, and it does run a very minimalist interface. Not minimalist enough for my tastes, but that should be mitigated when the 9" ones come out.

Re:Interface needs a make over (3, Informative)

tknd (979052) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717555)

Ubuntu netbook remix or whatever it is called is going to address this by providing a new interface designed for small screens. Ars [arstechnica.com] has a bunch of screenshots and more information. The solution isn't perfect but is in a step in the right direction.

This (good interface real estate usage) is one area that I have to give credit to Apple for doing very well. Apple interfaces are very clean and for the most part a good use of screen real estate (minimal window border, fewer menus and toolbars). Gnome tends to be a little on the fat side with buttons, menus, and toolbars but hopefully that will start changing with this new market. I do wish that application developers would stop using the default "file" menus as a crutch to stuff things into or stuffing toolbars with buttons all over the place (gimp, open office, old versions of ms office, many IDEs). On small screens that becomes especially annoying since there is no more room to grow the windows.

Re:Interface needs a make over (2, Interesting)

NullProg (70833) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717605)

I've tried playing around with the Eeee PC, , and while I can see the appeal, the GUI experience is a bit sucky.

I haven't bought one yet because I need the new wider screen for my wife. When I do buy one I'm following the instructions here:

http://wiki.eeeuser.com/ubuntu:eeexubuntu:home [eeeuser.com]

Not to dismiss Gnome or KDE, but try Xfce (No, I am not affiliated).

Enjoy,

Re:Interface needs a make over (1)

Jewfro_Macabbi (1000217) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717835)

You mean something like Openbox, Fluxbox, or Jwm on the desktop. You could do that with ease - apt-get install ...

Re:Interface needs a make over (2, Insightful)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718263)

Oh my...now even some slashdotters assume that desktop Linux = Gnome?... :/ (Eee Xandros install runs KDE)

Oh well, I guess still better than computer = Windows...

mmm now all makes sense (1)

indi0144 (1264518) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717237)

Right now I'm writing this from an IBM Thinkpad A21m Using Ubuntu 8.04. Right in Live CD mode, Ubuntu configured all of my hardware, even Wifi, the mic, infrared can detect an old phone, No Wonder why Ubuntu have been chosen.

It's a dual boot, having the choice of Win 2K pro, Now I'm planing to install Wolvix in there, I have not so much problem with the speed in Ubuntu .. 256Mb should be enough for everyone (I know I need 512Mb but believe me it runs fine).

BTW I'm using Firefox 3no beta, no RC.. Updated just an hour ago! Why I haven't seen an article on this here? http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6682/ff3gb5.png [imageshack.us]

Sounds good, but Dell should do more (1)

realmolo (574068) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717275)

Dell has the bucks and "political" power to get some of the big commercial software packages ported to Linux.

Maybe they can convince Adobe to port all their stuff. If Linux had the Adobe apps (and Flash, for God's sake) and Quicken, that would go a long way to filling the major gaps in the software library.

Of course, there is still the problem of games, but I think that is becoming less-and-less of an issue as consoles take over the market.

Hell, Dell should just *buy* Canonical, and spin off their own version of Linux that fixes all the usability problems that make it not-as-good-as Windows for general desktop use.

Re:Sounds good, but Dell should do more (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717853)

To have flash on FreeBSD would be great. Hell, they don't need to port it, then just need to open the source, or perhaps make it so part of it remains closed, but the player itself can be compiled for different OSs. I'm sure I'm dreaming there. Flash 9 is the number one reason why I still keep rebooting back into Linux; it plays a big role in the internet right now.

With Dell getting involved in Ubuntu development; I'm not sure if that would be easy since they would have to follow GPL and associated licenses. I'm sure they would love to make a linux kernel with their name on it, but closed source? nope, can't do that.

Netbook Specs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717437)

I just wonder whay you can only by the lowest end of the netbooks with linux on them.
I want the top range HP netbook with 2 GB RAM, and the 60GB flash drive AND SLED10 please! If you deduct the cost for windows, about $100 that puts it at about the same price as the entry level Windows one with the 160GB spinning platter HDD.

Re:Netbook Specs (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717687)

you must be a real moron if you think that hp pays 100 bucks a copy for windows. as if they'd lower the price that much even if it did.

just goes to show that linux lemmings have little hold on business concepts.

or maybe it's more that the lemmings are so stupid as to think the hp cares if linux takes over the market. they're fickle and they'll go the way of profit. for them it's not a battle of linux versus microsoft. it's a simple matter of making money. your little religious crusade doesn't interest them.

geotalk linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23717699)

http://www.geo-talk.com

Paying for codes (1)

NotZed (19455) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717827)

Of course, it means they have to pay for the licenses for the codecs.

Perhaps every sale even sends a little bit of money to M$.

Nice way to leverage the free cost of free software while at the same time selling out to proprietary interests and immoral anti-competitive laws like patents.

Although it was a one-off payment, they even got some money out of the Samba team. Novell are long gone. It seems they're the ones (proprietary interests) dictating the terms under which free software is now developed and used.

Not just Netbooks... (2, Informative)

dominique_cimafranca (978645) | more than 5 years ago | (#23717899)

Here in the Philippines, we have full-sized laptops going for $400, the cheapest they've ever been. Not Via processors, mind you, but dual core. Not just no-name brands, either, but Acer and Lenovo. And they all ship with some version of Linux or other. I've seen units preloaded with Ubuntu, and the horribly named Linpus is very popular with Acer notebooks.

However, it's likely that once the buyers bring the unit home, a bootleg version of Windows gets loaded on it. Linux is preloaded just to show that the unit is working.

On the other hand, netbooks aren't really living up to the name. They're coming in with more memory and more disk space -- case in point is the Deep Blue H1 [blogspot.com] (not sure what the designation is in other countries): 1GB memory and 40GB hard disk, and all of $300.

Re:Not just Netbooks... (2, Insightful)

miscz (888242) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718165)

Linux is preloaded on such machines mostly because Microsoft "convinced" the governments of many countries that no computer should be sold without OS to reduce piracy. Manufacturers get around those laws by preloading Linux and even sometimes FreeDOS - seems that they have a good sense of humour :)

Microsoft not interested (2, Insightful)

juventasone (517959) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718257)

I imagine Microsoft is being short-sighted and deciding they don't want to promote another platform like Windows Mobile that will never sell a $300 Office or any of their bread and butter.
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