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TSA Bans Flight If You Refuse To Show ID

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the john-gilmore-loophole dept.

Privacy 734

mytrip notes a CNet blog entry on the recent TSA rule change banning flight to anyone who refuses to produce ID. It's OK if you claim to have lost or forgotten your ID — you undergo a pat-down and hand search of your carry-on bag and you're on your way. The new rule goes into effect June 21. "The change of rules seems to be a pretty obvious case of security theater. Real terrorists do not refuse to show ID. They claim to have lost their ID, or they use a fake. TSA's new rules only protect us from a non-existent breed of terrorists who are unable to lie."

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Yeah, about fake IDs (5, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718449)

I've always wondered about why people don't seem to get that fake IDs can be used for more than just getting into bars. And in that, far more serious things. I had my own experience with having to provide an ID in a case where it was not needed or useful to them. I bought an account with Hostgator once and they had a policy of not allowing you to use a shell account without providing a faxed copy of your driver's license. I argued with the system administrator there that it was a useless policy as it doesn't prove anything as IDs can be faked. And especially with the low quality of a fax, how could they tell. I could easily put in fake details using any simple image editor. He actually responded saying something like "If I can prevent one security breach, then the policy is worth it.". He didn't seem to get that it won't stop anything. Hackers see policies as obstacles to get over, not impassable walls. What's sad is that Hostgator isn't the only company with this very same policy. They probably don't realize how many malicious hackers they already have one their systems.

All that IDs provide is another hoop for everyone to jump through, including hackers and terrorists. They are useless as a security measure to anyone who doesn't have the authority to validate them.

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718471)

Christ, I love Greek! Women just don't seem to understand that a man can find just as much pleasure in the warm confines of a well- muscled ass as they can in the satin embrace of a well-wetted cunt. Maybe we men have conditioned them too well to ignoring one hole for the other: nonetheless, every man I've talked to about it loves Greek and every woman who I've talked to about it has been less than enthusiastic. So imagine my surprise last weekend when Kathleen treated me to the joys of anal sex in what must be the first time in five or six years.

The night started our strangely. Kathleen had just finished re- arranging her large library and was exhausted. As suits my biological clock, I was just coming awake at 10 PM when she was turning in. She invited me to bed and I politely declined: I was horny as usual and told her I'd keep her awake. After a couple of more requests from her, I stripped and crawled in beside her. Kathleen loves to snuggle and wasted no time in curling her small body up next to mine. I turned and kissed her. She was oddly responsive for her tired state, and teased me with a hint of tongue in her kisses. I reached down to feel her muff and found it just beginning to rev as her right hand slipped down her belly to her clit.

I took up what has become my customary position between her legs - kneeling and using my cock as a sex toy to tickle her lower labia and the entrance to her cunt. But this time I let my aim wander lower to the wonderful curve where ass, crotch, and leg meet. I rubbed my cock against this soft crescent and expanded the stroke to brush against the entrance to her ass. I noticed that every time that my prick touched her rosebud, her strokes on her clit quickened. It wasn't long before I was pressing the tip of my cock against her asshole.

Surprise! My cock slipped easily into her ass until the entire head was buried inside, and just as I was about to pull out and apoligize, she handed me a bottle of sex lubricant and said "What the fuck? Why not?". I pulled back and poured the lubricant on my hard cock and noticed her pussy was swollen and very wet. I worked my cock back into its previous nest. It was so easy. I could feel her ass muscles relaxing and opening for me. I eased ever so slowly deeper. Such heaven! Like a warm, wet hand gripping all around my prick - so much tighter than pussy, and delightful in an entirely different way. I could feel her hips grind against me as I worked the last of my seven-plus inches into her back door. Realizing where I was and how long it had been since I'd known this pleasure, I had to fight to pull the reigns in on my orgasm.

It seemed like forever - my slow rocking pulling my cock almost full-length out of her ass before easing it back in until my balls rested against her firm buns. Her right hand furiously massaged her clit and her left hand played at the entrance of her cunt, pressing on the full length of her labia. And all the while my cock was enveloped in a firm net of gripping muscles that wrestled to bring the cum from me. "It's so weird," she said as she searched for the grip on her own orgasm. Suddenly, it was upon her. I felt her ass open up like a mouth that was just to blow up a ballon. "Are you close?" she hissed. "No," I grunted. She was close, tho'. Too close to stop. I felt her stiffen and lurch under me. "Uuhhhh! Come on you bastard! Fill my ass!" she yelled as she dug her nails into my back. Amazing what a little dirty talk will do - from that special nowhere where good men hide their orgasms until their lovers are ready, my load bolted from my crotch to my brain and back to my flushed balls. I gripped the pillow with my teeth and jerked my neck back and forth and tried not to deafen Kathleen when my cum blasted out of my cock like water from a firehose. The rush of jism racing up my tube seemed to last for stroke after stroke until sweaty Kathleen gasped, grunted, and pushed me from on top of her. Since I have a little anal experience myself, I knew the sudden discomfort of having something in your ass after you've orgasmed. I considerately slipped out of her despite not having finished my own orgasm to my complete satisfaction.

I kissed her and thanked her for her special gift, but she pushed me away. "Go wash off and fuck my pussy," she said " I feel like something's undone." So after a quick and thorough shower, I returned to the futon where her dripping, swollen twat waited for my not-quite-recovered cock.

And that's another story...

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (2, Funny)

liquidf (1146307) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718541)

...but did you two show ID?

Just wait 'til the sweaty, stinky, bearded muslim (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718903)

Just wait 'til the sweaty, stinky, bearded muslim who claimed he forget ID sits next to you, and who has the oddest assortment of carry-ons you've ever seen. Mid-atlantic he wraps a towel around his head, yiddles to alah, "death to the infidels, death to the ...", and we'll see just how smug you are on your 600 MPH, 30,000 foot plunge to the ocean below. What's that? Where else would the ocean be? TSA does things for YOUR own good. If you want to ridicule, move your ass to russia, where flying ANY areoflot is like playing, yup, russian roulette.

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718491)

There are no terrorists. You might as well be talking about the intentions and capabilities of magical elves.

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (2, Insightful)

ChuckSchwab (813568) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718731)

What about 9/11? Weren't those guys (the Arabs that carried out the attack I mean) terrorists?

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718847)

Forget what you think you know about terrorist attacks in the last several years. Because you see, there are simply no terrorists.

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718887)

That's ridiculous. If those guys were terrorists then there would have to have been some kind of international conspiracy. Only fools and crazy people believe in conspiracy theories.

Terrorist elves are real!! (5, Funny)

Reziac (43301) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718813)

I'm reminded of a story that came over the wires of United Press International, on September 10, 1980 (the teletype printed it during my shift while I was DJing, so I saw it with my own eyes):

Police in Laurel, Mississippi report receiving a call from a woman who told them she had been attacked by a band of elves. Investigating officers were dubious to begin with and the woman didn't help her credibility by pointing to a blank wall whenever she was talking about the window the alleged elves came through.

When one of the officers pointed out that there was no window where the woman kept pointing, she reportedly told them the elves had taken it with them.

It appears the TSA believes that if we just get rid of all those windows, no more elves, er, I mean terrorists will come through them!!

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718867)

Elaborate, lest the friends and families of terrorism casualties believe you are calling the death of their loved ones imaginary as well. So what's the explanation? Government conspiracy? Aliens? Both?

Re:Yeah, about fake IDs (2, Insightful)

DesScorp (410532) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718923)

There are no terrorists. You might as well be talking about the intentions and capabilities of magical elves.
If you were simply trying to be witty and sarcastic about the truthers, you should have just added a sarcasm tag... a lot of people here are taking you seriously.

Conservative Fascism (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718567)

When Conservatives constantly pule about government being the problem, they are close to right: conservatives in government is the problem.

Considering all their core principles are right out of Mein Kampf... developments like this are hardly surprising. Warrantless wiretaps, secret prisons, citizens being held in secret and without trials: brought to you by either Nazi Germany or Conservative America. Take your pick.

Re:Conservative Fascism (4, Insightful)

pm_rat_poison (1295589) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718661)

It's also amazing how conservatives claim to strive for less state control by not regulating the market and by not taxing the rich and powerful, but they sure don't have a problem regulating the lives of the many by imposing "security measures" and by ignoring human rights in the name of national security. Isn't it weird? Conservatives don't have a problem with the government invading their personal lives, but they DO have a problem with the government invading the corporations' lives. In the free market state you Americans idolize, corporations and citizens should have the same treatment under the eye of the law. No more, no less.

Conservative Freedom (3, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718971)

Isn't it weird? Conservatives don't have a problem with the government invading their personal lives, but they DO have a problem with the government invading the corporations' lives.

What a classic set of liberal distortions!

Conservatives, for the most part, do not want the government to enter our lives. However, we value the following rights as tantamount to freedom: a) free speech, b) freedom of commerce, c) the right to hold property and d) the right to get income from the investment of that property. That is why, as a rule, you will see conservatives balk at any sort of proposed rule about what kind of car, house, medicine, or anything else that a person might own or buy.

Conversely, the liberal would legislate the federal right to ALL property, and impose regulations on ANYTHING. Liberals always complain about "conservative fascism", but, then, their solutions always involve creating ever more regulation (and thus, devaluing property). Liberals might make you free in the Khmer Rouge sense of the word, but, ultimately, they make you poor.

In the free market state you Americans idolize, corporations and citizens should have the same treatment under the eye of the law. No more, no less.

Actually, we view corporations as distinctly less than the rights of citizens. However, corporations, via our shares, are our property, and therefor, we resist what the government would do with it. But, make no bones about it, in the eyes of a conservative, owning a stake in Exxon Mobil, or even the entire company, is no different than the legality of owning a pencil. It is my company, my pencil, and I can do with it what I will.

Coverring their ass (2, Insightful)

DrYak (748999) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718629)

The ID faxing policy isn't even remotely related to security.
It's about covering their asses.

It won't prevent a big screw up, *BUT* in case of big screw up, they can show up the fax, and ask their phone company to confirm they actually did receive a faxed document (and didn't fake it quickly in MS-Paint which would be about the same quality) and thus claim "see, we did our part, we're innocent, you can't sue us".

I've always wondered about why people don't seem to get that fake IDs can be used for more than just getting into bars. And in that, far more serious things.
Fake IDs are a little bit more difficult to fake with good enough quality to pass strong security check. I'm saying it's impossible - there's a whole black market to contradict such claims. I'm just saying that making a fake passport that could get one through customs at a time when a country is in paranoid mode and enforce strict control of everything, isn't within the technical skill of the US teen with the black marked and/or color printer wanting to get drunk and quickly shows a faked student ID or driver license to a pusher in a badly lit entrance. (specially given the fact that the pusher will hardly even be able to recognised the hundreds of different IDs issued by all different universities and states - at least on problem less with unique IDs).

But apart from that, I agree with you. An ID is not a magical bullet that will solve everything, specially not security.
Mainly, it's just a quick tool to quickly assessing the identity and age of the bearer, when convenience of speed is important and implications of misidentification are low.

(A teen passing out on booze isn't very likely to kill hundreds of thousands of victims. As of that matters, neither are terrorists. Natural catastrophe, on the other hand... )

Re:Coverring their ass (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718767)

Thats a point SO many people miss. When i made fake IDs (mostly for fun.... i could get beer anyways)... I ALWAYS reproduced ID of a different country. Make a pakistani ID to get into a bar. It doesnt even have to be in english. And if you have shitty quality it doesnt matter since pakistani ID probably isnt as nice anyways. Plus they've certainly never seen it before so they wouldnt know any better. *shrug* it always confused me people going through complex processes to make a realistic fake ID.

Re:Coverring their ass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718835)

Probably because the white guy from the suburbs showing a Pakistani ID doesn't really fit.

Re:Coverring their ass (3, Informative)

brizzadizza (1195159) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718871)

I worked as a doorman at a bar for two years and I would regularly turn away customers that I thought were too young. If they had an out of state ID that I couldn't verify, and I had any doubt, I told them to move it down the line. Hell, if I asked some stupid non-obvious question like "What's your zodiac sign?" and they hesitated to answer I'd send them off. If they couldn't sum the digits in their zip code I'd send them off. The point of a realistic fake ID is to confound a distrustful doorman. If everything looked ok, and the hologram was UV reactive, I probably wouldn't get too suspicious. If some young looking kid shows me a texas license and has no twang, he/she is not likely to get in.

Well customs ya (2, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718979)

There they actually check your passport to some reasonable degree. If nothing else they scan it with their device which performs a number of checks for security features that aren't easy to fake.

Problem with TSA checks is they aren't nearly so good. You show your driver license or passport to the guy, and they mark that you are ok on your ticket. Well they don't check real well, and as a practical matter it'd be hard to. Passports are somewhat standardised among nations, and there's only so many of them. Driver licenses there are tons of. In Arizona alone I can think of 6 different versions that you can currently find in circulation.

Thus it really isn't anything more than a "Does this guy have ID at all," check, which is useless. Passport checks aren't a magic bullet, but at least they are somewhat useful. It isn't that easy to get a fake passport that'll get through border security, and most nations do a reasonable job checking to make sure passports are legitimately issued (some like Canada get kinda silly with the amount of checks they do). It provides a reasonable way for countries to control their borders and who passes through them.

However this check is nothing more than "Security for show." There is no serious attempt made to see if the ID presented is accurate, and I've had times where they hardly glance at the picture, so long as it was the same hair colour and gender Id' probably get through. It is probably far less through than the check airlines do when you use an ID to get an e-ticket.

idiots (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718459)

So we SHOULD allow people who refuse to show id to fly??

Re:idiots (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718519)

What I find amusing is that you refer to the people creating these policies as "we". Like you've got any say in it.

Huh? Didn't you get the memo? (5, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718467)

"Trouble maker" and "terrorist" are synonymous now.

Stand in line.

Speak when spoken to.

Have your papers ready.

Re:Huh? Didn't you get the memo? (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718745)

Will people really feel safer in an "Ihre Papieren, bitte" society?
If so, there's something seriously screwed up with the people, not just the government.

The real enemy (1, Redundant)

evilviper (135110) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718483)

Don't be so cynical. It's that our government is so idiotic that they don't know terrorists and criminals can and will lie. It's that they're protecting us from a much more serious threat... Those damn smelly hippies that refuse to go along with the pack and surrender all of their rights when asked in a confident voice by an authority figure.

It's just a good thing terrorists don't know how to pretend to be authority figures...

Re:The real enemy (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718707)

Yep basically, even after the recent about face in HIIBEL V. SIXTH JUDICIAL DIST. COURT OF NEV.,HUMBOLDT CTY the court still requires that the statute be narrowly defined and that there be a reasonable suspicion that the subject of an inquiry is involved in a crime.

Re:The real enemy (4, Insightful)

WindowlessView (703773) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718723)

that refuse to go along with the pack and surrender all of their rights when asked in a confident voice by an authority figure.

Bingo. They could not have made the intention any more transparent. It's not about security - otherwise why is pat-down good enough for people who just make up an excuse? It's about control and making the population submissive. We learn to bend over at the airport and it makes it easier to do it at the checkpoint, the federal building, the state border, or while jogging in a neighborhood in which they think you don't belong.

Re:The real enemy (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718959)

>It's about control

A different aspect of control. TSA screener is an entry-level job, and many of the people
in it are fresh out of vocational rehab. These are people who need to be very strictly supervised.
The consequences for not showing ID are harsh, but I'd bet this rule comes about as a result of
screeners failing to follow procedure.

Real terrorists (5, Informative)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718485)

Have already bought all of the fake IDs that they need to do their jobs because they are well-trained and financed. Nothing done here would capture the caliber of terrorists capable of actually pulling off another 9-11. All of the original 9-11 terrorists had their IDs in order.

Perception != reality (4, Insightful)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718895)

The whole purpose is for the TSA to make the traveller feel that they are being kept safe. Real safety has nothing to do with it.

It would have stopped 9/11, right? (5, Insightful)

Reality Master 201 (578873) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718509)

After all, not one of the 9/11 hijackers had validly issued ID in their own names. Right?

Yeah. Maybe the next president will do something to fix the utterly idiotic "security" games the TSA insists on playing with airline travel. I'm not putting money on it, though.

Re:It would have stopped 9/11, right? (1)

carlzum (832868) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718877)

This has nothing to do with security. This law targets disruptive passengers on line, right or wrong.

TSA: Your ID please.

Passenger: I don't have to show you my ID!

TSA: Yes you do. Security, please escort him out of the airport. Next passenger! Your ID please.

Passenger 2: Here you go.

heh (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718513)

hahah "honest terrorists" I love it. Sorta like how an engineer can't refuse to blurt out a flaw in a product sales pitch, terrorists can't use fake IDs.

Brilliant. (2, Insightful)

TRAyres (1294206) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718521)

But remember, if people FEEL safe, they will fly, and the economy will roll on, and THAT will keep the terrorists from winning!

Also, an update from the Bush administration: We are not at war with Oceania. We have never been at war with Oceania. Miniplenty has upped the quality of their cigarettes this year by 30%, and has doubled our chocolate output! Hail, Big Brother!

Wrong (5, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718537)

The change of rules seems to be a pretty obvious case of security theater....
Your first (wrong) assumption is that it has a damn thing to do with security. It has to do with the TSA wanting to be able to remove "troublemakers" (ie, anyone who thinks that demanding ID is unreasonable... can't have those free thinkers able to do what they want in our society).

Fuck DHS and the TSA. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. They're far worse (if they aren't yet, they will be, just wait) than any terrorist ever could be.

Sad part is, I'd move to another country if I knew of any better ones out there. Anyone know of a mostly English-speaking country that doesn't walk all over its citizens' rights? I know the UK is right out, and I hear Australia is pretty bad too.

Re:Wrong (5, Insightful)

Ithaca_nz (661774) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718627)

New Zealand, although I'm a native so I'm biased. Same copyright laws (you can format shift) and not much of a police state (slight nanny state, there's a law about not smacking your kids here, but it's not something that people pay much attention to). Must admit, I was travelling in the States a month or so ago with work, and realised when I came back home that it was easier to go through everything for an international flight in/out of NZ than it was to get on a domestic flight in the US...

Re:Wrong (1, Insightful)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718799)

smacking your kids is a childrens right/human right law. Its not to do with nanny state. Nanny states stop you from doing things that harm yourself, like not allowing you to smoke pot or drink in excess. Not allowing you to smack your kid is there to protect the child so that its rights are infringed upon. They arent related at all ^^;; unless you think of a child as your property like a car or something.

Re:Wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718633)

I'm sure the airlines, who seem to have their hands full trying to deal with all the overbooked flights they've sold out, will be thrilled to hear what kind of help they're getting from the government to resolve their problems. The airlines will now be able to re-assign the extra gate agents they had available to deal with troublemakers and pseudo-terrorists to go help with rebooking irate passengers who were bumped from the overflowing flight manifests.

Or am I missing something here?

Re:Wrong (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718651)

I fly regularly in Australia and we don't need to show ID for domestic flights.

Whereas you guys have a two party system that is all about which religion you bat for, we have a two party system which is all about what colour collar you wear (blue or white). When one party is in power we get over-taxed and they hoard all the money for the good of the economy. When the other party is in power we get over-taxed and they blow money on massive public works projects.

Re:Wrong (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718691)

I'd just heard that Australia was ramping up in the surveillance and insane copyright departments. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Re:Wrong (2, Insightful)

jmv (93421) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718671)

Sad part is, I'd move to another country if I knew of any better ones out there. Anyone know of a mostly English-speaking country that doesn't walk all over its citizens' rights? I know the UK is right out, and I hear Australia is pretty bad too.

Australia's got a bit better now that Howard got booted out. Canada used to be better before Stephen "whatever you say Mr. Bush" Harper became PM. Still, none of those where ever remotely as bad as the US in terms of being police states. Don't know how UK compares.

Re:Wrong (2, Interesting)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718741)

Given the news I read about the UK's growing police state, it doesn't seem to me to be all that far off from "V For Vendetta"-style government. That's just from reading news on /. though, it may not be an accurate portrayal.

Re:Wrong (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718827)

Canada is good still... If he gets re-elected i'd be worried though. Harper atm is making things worse but he only got 32% of the vote so its hard for him to mess up too badly.

Re:Wrong (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718717)

Romania. Our English might sound a little bit funny to your fine ears, but if 10^6 Yankees/Southerners decided to migrate to RO, I am pretty sure the locals' English would improve over night. ... I almost forgot. Our internet kicks asses, too. Fast speeds, NO ISP throttling, DC++ hubs all over the place.

Dont forget to bring your guns and SUVs!

Re:Wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718825)

maybe new zealand?

Re:Wrong (1)

dunnius (1298159) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718857)

Fuck DHS and the TSA. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. They're far worse (if they aren't yet, they will be, just wait) than any terrorist ever could be.
I completely agree; Thousands of Stupid Assholes indeed. Unfortunately, the sheeple either are not paying attention or simply don't care. They are the source of this problem and need a swift kick in the head to wake them up.

Re:Wrong (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718891)

Well, you might want to learn another language. After all, the United Estados won't be an Ingles speaking country for much longer now...

I moved my white ass to Brazil, and I am as happy as a perv in hell. See, cops don't bother you, they don't care about people with jobs, and white people. Their only job is to take poor people out of shopping malls, movie theaters and restaurants. So, you feel pretty much free.
The country is becoming an economic super-power, and economy is booming (while ours, well, we all know how our economy is doing...). You can get a good technical specialist or engineering job, with a really good pay, even by OLD US standards, and very very great, if you take the actual salary standards for IT in the US.
Also, they got ethanol and they extract enough oil to keep the gas prices low, without imports.
And I am not talking about the women and the beaches, because no words can describe them.
Well, they fairly speak and understand English, but to become a native you will have to learn Portuguese. That is what I am doing. I don't think I will ever get back to the USA.

I hear China's nice around this time of year... (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718945)

... Cuba's not too bad, and it's close too! North Korea, I hear, has some spectacular sights. Russia isn't too bad either.

Yup, plenty of free countries to go to, if you're willing to learn the language.

Continuing a long trend of officers (3, Insightful)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718539)

pushing down people that irritate them.

As pointed out, since you can lie easily, this is really just about control and dominance.

Re:Continuing a long trend of officers (2, Insightful)

ErichTheWebGuy (745925) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718649)

Yeah, you couldn't be more correct. The worst part is that the general population is stupid enough to buy the bullshit "security" excuse.

This is terrible news (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718543)

Good thing rising fuel costs will bankrupt the airline industry in a year or two.

Silly American . . . (3, Insightful)

Chaxid (772696) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718547)

Assuming all of those new laws and policies are for the "terrorists". That's why they don't make sense to you. NOW SHOW US YOUR PAPERS!

It isn't about terrorists at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718551)

This isn't to catch terrorists. It's to catch people who try to give the TSA lip. You don't give them respect, they don't respect you back.

Still silly, though.

Flying now equivalent to being arrested (5, Insightful)

Reziac (43301) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718555)

From a comment under TFA:

"Passengers who refuse to show ID, citing the rights" still will be accommodated if they "assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity." This is similar to the Fourth Amendment case law on ID, which is also widely misunderstood by the lay public. You have every right not to carry ID, but you do not have the right to withhold your identity from law enforcement if they have a legitimate reason for knowing it (e.g., because you've been lawfully arrested). The TSA is merely clarifying that, "you have no right to fly anonymously," not that "you no longer have the right to invoke your right to fly without ID.

[emphasis mine]

So... refusing to identify yourself at the airport is equivalent to refusing to identify yourself when you're arrested.

Let's stop piddlefucking around and admit that planes are now airborne maximum security prisons. Because that's exactly how their "security" is treating passengers.

Re:Flying now equivalent to being arrested (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718957)

From a comment under TFA:

[...] You have every right not to carry ID, but you do not have the right to withhold your identity from law enforcement if they have a legitimate reason for knowing it (e.g., because you've been lawfully arrested). [...]

[emphasis mine]

So... refusing to identify yourself at the airport is equivalent to refusing to identify yourself when you're arrested.

Let's stop piddlefucking around and admit that planes are now airborne maximum security prisons. Because that's exactly how their "security" is treating passengers.

According to your brand of reasoning, automobiles have been maximum security prisons for the last seventy years.

Slashdotters like to think of themselves as being a cut above the common herd. But if there's one thing I've learned in reading Slashdot over the last year or two, it's that technical knowledge just doesn't carry over into the realm of common sense.

I'm the terrorist's terrorist (-1, Flamebait)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718557)

That's right buddy! If I see and hear some raghead shouting while waving a weapon arround, I sware it, he/she better use the damn thing. Cause when I done breaking few jaw bones, they will WISH they remained silent and pulled the trigger quitely.

Though personally, I'd rather avoid the whole mess and just leave air-marshals on every flight. It would be cheaper and less bothersome to me.

Though, it would give me an excuse to walk around in-flight for some extended exercise...

Re:I'm the terrorist's terrorist (0, Offtopic)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718915)

Flamebait huh?

Well, at least *now* we know there are some sympathizers on Slashdot. In-fucking-defensible! I've seen it all...

Re:I'm the terrorist's terrorist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718963)

Why do airline-security-related articles on /. always attract the racist chest-puffing macho buffoons, anyway..?

Oh, yeah, that's right - it's the only place where said buffoons can feel tough and not get stabbed, shot, or punched out in the process.

Keep entertaining your hero fantasies, tough guy. Someday you'll find yourself looking down the business end of a real live gun, and I'll be standing off to the side laughing as you shit your pants!

Big bueracracy means people need to justify jobs! (2, Insightful)

compumike (454538) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718569)

In any big bueracracy, specifically government, there's really little incentive to be more efficient (or even more correct). Particularly with government, like the TSA, this is an example of people trying to secure jobs for themselves and their department.

This can happen in the corporate world, too: feeling the need to spend one's entire budget just so that it won't get cut in the following year. But at least there's likely to be someone who might find and correct that inefficiency. In government, there's incentive to keep it growing all the way up to the top.

So the next time you see some policy that doesn't make sense, think about who just got to keep their job because of its existence.

Hey code monkey... learn electronics! [nerdkits.com]

Re:Big bueracracy means people need to justify job (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718775)

This can happen in the corporate world, too: feeling the need to spend one's entire budget just so that it won't get cut in the following year. But at least there's likely to be someone who might find and correct that inefficiency.

Who? After all, those people who might find and correct it are probably the ones in charge of the department with the problems (or in charge of those who are in charge, etc.) Which means shrinking their budget. At some level you might be able to shift your savings to a different subdepartment, and the CEO certainly is aligned. But that's at the very top of the heap.

And that is only one area of corporate price insensitivity.

I have the solution to make everyone happy???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718573)

well only one solution then

embed everyone with RFID chips at birth

happy now? super secret encrypted RFID chips that will tell the "OMG GUBMENT" WHERE YOU ARE AN OF COURSE WHO YOU ARE AT ALL TIMES.

on the up side no more digging out your D/L at the airport woot.

Refuse flight? (3, Insightful)

ErichTheWebGuy (745925) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718585)

Only if you're an asshole and "refuse" to show your ID? Come on, how many people are really like that? If you're going to claim this policy for security reasons, don't allow an exception for "lost" or "forgotten" IDs. If it were for security reasons, ID would be required 100% of the time. Because it's for fascist reasons, they are willing to make a temporary exception to ease people into it. But, the 100% refusal to allow boarding without ID is coming. Mark my words. The time for action is now. I think I will somehow "forget" my ID every time I board a flight from now on.

I would not have guessed (1)

WindowlessView (703773) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718607)

People can still afford to fly?

Re:I would not have guessed (4, Informative)

rob1980 (941751) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718909)

If you're traveling alone, yeah. Amtrak wants $250 to put me on a train to a city 1300 miles from where I live, and at $4 a gallon I'd spend that much in gas if I drove myself. That's one way, mind you.

Southwest wants $300 for a round trip ticket.

Not the point anymore... (3, Insightful)

darinfp (907671) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718613)

There are thousands of people who get paid to make us safer from terrorists. I don't think they will be reducing the perceived risk any time soon. Announcements like this keep the terrorist threat in the news and make it look like they are doing something for their money.

Re:Not the point anymore... (1)

oldspewey (1303305) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718689)

keep the terrorist threat in the news
I thought the "Rainbow of Doom" was intended to keep the terror threat in the news.

boarding pass too (1)

egburr (141740) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718623)

Despite having to show my boarding pass to get into the security line and again to get to advance to the scanners, I also had to have it to pick up my bag after the scanner. Oh yeah, and show my ID each time. What in the world are they so scared of?

It's not like *anyone* could have passed through the walls to enter the line and skip the first ID check. Heck, if I could do that, I'd skip the whole security check altogether. I still think that's a much more likely place for someone with a bomb to target. Get us so scared to queue up at the security points, and we'll never get on the planes.

Re:boarding pass too (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718985)

And yet they haven't.

Now think of all the other ways you personally have worked out to attack airport security. How many of them have been attempted?


Meanwhile at the customs... (5, Funny)

brunokummel (664267) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718643)

Imigration Officer: What's your name, sir?
Passenger: Batman...
Imigration Officer: Come again? Your last name, sir?
Passenger: Suparman ...
Imigration Officer: Funny guy ahn? Take him down, boys...

While the other officers beat the crap out of the poor fella, the Imigration officer checks his passport out [imageshack.us]

Re:Meanwhile at the customs... (1)

aedil (68993) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718771)

In my more adventurous days I encountered what seemed to be (but wasn't) a rather fun immigration agent when entering the US from my 6th or 7th international business trip that year, and was faced with the question (while the officer was flipping through my well-stamped passport): "Have you ever come to the US before?"

My first thought was 'well, duh, I live here (on a visa)' but I chose a nicer reply: "I can't remember but it ought to be in my passport."

He was not amused... Luckily this was pre-9/11...

now don't take this the wrong way (1, Interesting)

atarione (601740) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718667)

but jesus christ I hope I don't get stuck behind you "why do i have to show my id ..it won't do any good anyways people" at security. look buddy just show the nice TSA people your id and move along cause I just want to get the hell home thanx. if you don't like the policy write your congress person or something ..just don't have a hissy fit at the checkpoint and slow me down.

Wait, wait, WAIT just a moment here... (2, Insightful)

hacker (14635) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718675)

You can't get a boarding pass without showing your physical photo ID (at least in the US, where TSA has jurisdiction). So how did you "lose" your ID from the point where you checked in and picked up your boarding pass, and the point where you got to the metal detectors and security checkpoints?

I call bogus on this. If this was really for security reasons, a photo ID would be required 100% of the time.

Security theatre indeed.

Re:Wait, wait, WAIT just a moment here... (2, Informative)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718705)

You can't get a boarding pass without showing your physical photo ID (at least in the US, where TSA has jurisdiction).

No. In fact, most of the e-Ticket kiosks only need your confirmation number that you were e-mailed to get your boarding pass. No proof of ID required.

Re:Wait, wait, WAIT just a moment here... (1)

devaudio (596215) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718755)

sure you can get your boarding pass without ID. I print mine at the hotel i stay at in VA when i am traveling for business. I am sure others besides Marriott have this option

Re:Wait, wait, WAIT just a moment here... (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718759)

Actually, if you buy your ticket on-line, there's no need to show your ID to get a boarding pass. Every airport I've gone to, after having bought my ticket on-line, I just go to the express check-in booth, swipe my credit card, and I get issued my boarding pass. No ID needed.

Re:Wait, wait, WAIT just a moment here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718781)

Uhhh.. I print my boarding pass at home/work, the first/only time anyone checks my ID is at security.

If they already know how "real terrorists" act... (1)

xyankee (693587) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718703)

.. why do they keep selecting grandmas for additional security screening?

The airline industry in ten years. (2, Insightful)

suck_burners_rice (1258684) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718713)

Let's take the downward trend of the overall airline experience and extrapolate. We'll examine the state of airline travel in ten years. All of the following has been verified for accuracy by traveling to the future.

In ten years, this is what it will be like to travel across the country by airplane:

First, you'll buy your ticket online for prices starting at $1400 or so, plus a $200 security fee tacked on for every flight segment. This is for each direction; there will no longer be "round trip" fares. All fares will be nonrefundable and nontransferable, and being late for your flight means automatic forfeiture of your fare and ticket, as there will no longer be an option to wait "on standby" for another flight or to change your ticket if your plans change.

When you show up at the airport, the first thing that happens is that you're put through one of two processes. Most people will go through a general process, which will be as follows: You get in line at the check-in, where you are questioned as to where you live, where you work, where you're flying, the purpose of your flight, what you're carrying in your luggage and on your person, whether you've purchased any electronics in the past six years, including electronics that you're not bringing on board with you, how much you paid for them, and why. During this time you will present ID and be photographed and fingerprinted; these will be input into the agent's laptop, which will immediately search through a government computer network of known terrorists, known criminals, known fugitives, people who are delinquent on child support payments, people who owe taxes, people who have been arrested in the last five years (even if not charged or convicted), people who are on the sex offender registry, people who haven't showed up to jury duty, people with bad credit, people who didn't register with the Selective Service System, people of other than Mexican origin who are in the country illegally, or people with unpaid parking tickets on their record. A match on one or more of these results in your being taken to a special room for additional questioning. There will be many false positives, so you'll wait in line for hours before being admitted into the interrogation room. This will mean that you'll probably miss your flight without a refund of your fare and with no compensation or rights whatsoever. If, by some miracle, you are seen in the interrogation room before your flight takes off, you'll miss it due to the length of the questioning process.

If you were not pulled out of the check-in line for interrogation, you go to the next step, which is to be weighed; at this point, you'll pay a dollar for each pound that you and your luggage weigh, plus $100 for each piece of luggage, $50 for your carry-on, and $25 for your personal item that you'll bring on board. Checking in will be free, but to obtain your boarding pass, you'll have to pay a $10 printing fee. The routing labels placed on your luggage will cost $5 each, and tags to put on your bag with your name and address will be a dollar each.

Now it's time for security, which happens in several stages. First, you'll bring your checked luggage to the TSA luggage scanner, where they'll pile up bags for flights that are about to take off somewhere on the side while scanning and pushing through the bags going on flights that aren't taking off for another two hours. One out of every ten bags will be chosen randomly and moved to a holding area where it will be held for a month and then returned to the airport, which will try and search for the owner, a process that will be extremely backlogged and won't succeed very often due to shoddy record keeping. Of those bags that are not randomly selected, each bag will be scanned electronically, and following that, each bag will be opened to wrinkle up the clothing. Then the bag will be passed on to the baggage handlers, who according to the 2013 Airport Security Passenger Luggage Contents Protection and Loss Prevention Act will be required to produce proof of at least two felony convictions in order to be eligible for the job. The same law will give all baggage handlers the right to take and keep any items they find in luggage which they like.

Now that you've handed off your bag (and don't know if you'll ever see it again), it's time for security. You will not be allowed to bring any gels, liquids, powders, foods, medicines, electronics, sharp objects, prescription glasses and/or sunglasses, contact lenses, books, magazines, or feminine hygiene products past security. At security, you'll have to produce your ID as well as be photographed, fingerprinted, and receive a retinal scan, all of which will be used to search a similar database to the one used before airline check-in, except that this database will be maintained by a parallel and redundant government organization, to ensure efficient use of taxpayer money. A match in this database again means that you'll be taken to the interrogation room, where not only will you miss your flight, but your luggage will be lost somewhere on the other side of the country, too. After this scan, you'll be required to remove your shoes and socks and walk through the metal detector; the floor in the metal detector area will be an old floor from a dirty locker room shower, with extra fungus spread on it every day; passengers will be required to rub each foot into this floor for ten seconds before proceeding through the metal detector. If the metal detector beeps, you go to that room. If not, you go to the next stage, which is that machine that takes your naked picture through your clothing. This will be mandatory for all passengers. If you are over 18 years old, the picture will automatically be posted on www.nudeattheairport.gov, a government porno site designed to raise additional revenues. If you're under 18 years old, you will be arrested for having your naked picture taken while underage.

During these security proceedings, some passengers will be selected at random for additional screenings, which means a strip-search in a private room, followed by a tax audit. Once past security, you will be allowed to proceed to the gate area. No food or beverages will be sold at any point once past security, and recall that you can't bring any in.

Remember at the very beginning where I said that upon arrival at the airport, you'll go through one of two processes? The above process is the one most people will go through. However, people who appear Middle-Eastern will go through a different, streamlined process, wherein they and their luggage will go directly to the plane without being searched or weighed, without any of the pesky background checks, and without paying any of the additional fees that most passengers will pay. This process will be put into effect to avoid hurting the feelings of people in that demographic, who might otherwise feel that they are being treated unfairly for some irrational racial reason.

When the time comes to board the plane, you will discover that the rows of seats are so close to each other that your legs will be painfully squeezed between the cushion of your seat and the back of the seat in front of you, and if you try to put your tray table down, its edge will squeeze against your stomach. This is to make room for as many seats as possible on the plane. When the passenger in front of you lowers his seat back, his greasy head will rest on your shoulder.

At this point, there is a mandatory waiting period of four hours prior to being placed in the takeoff queue. During this time, you will be stuck in the plane with nowhere to go. Recall that you can't bring food or drink past security, or buy any at the airport. You will, however, be able to buy sodas and snacks (chips or Oreo cookies) on the plane; a can of soda will cost $20. It will be served warm unless you buy a cup and ice for an additional $20. A bag of chips half the size of the 99 cent ones you can buy at the convenience store will cost $20. A package of four Oreo cookies will cost $20. There will be a total of ten "real" meal servings on the plane; they will be auctioned off during the flight, with a starting bid of $500. In-flight entertainment will consist of a screen in every seat back, in which you can rent a movie for $100 (headphones will cost extra; recall that you can't bring electronics, and that includes headphones, through security) or listen to an hour of music for $20. For adults over age 21, there will be access to an online casino through this seatback entertainment system; for the kids, video games like at the good old arcades, but at $10 a pop rather than 25 cents. Upon landing, there will be another four hour mandatory waiting period, after which you'll deplane, go to the baggage claim, hope your bag is there, and if it isn't (which is very likely given the earlier explanations), there will be a streamlined (read: SLOW) process involving many phone calls, letters, and emails over the course of weeks, to try and get your luggage back. Most people will be unsuccessful.

Re:The airline industry in ten years. (1)

kurt555gs (309278) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718883)

Why is this modded down, it is so likely to ber true, it is close enough now. I wish i had mod points. I am getting tired of all this "security", and I think this post is closer to the truth than is comfortable for many.

Mod this up, so more people can read it.

Used to work in the military producing ID cards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718719)

Used to work in the military producing ID cards. It was sometimes a lot to do, but often very little. Especially on evenings and weekends. This idle time was of course spent producing fake ISs for fun. We made IDs for ourself, our friends and pets. High rank (5 star admiral) with titles like 'T&A inspector' was most popular.

I am sure the guys over there are still cranking them out, and would be happy to give a few away for a few beers.

Your papers, please. (1, Insightful)

wickerprints (1094741) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718785)

How many times do I have to point out the obvious? This sort of eroding of civil liberties is precisely the mechanism by which terrorism seeks to overturn governments. And the sickening part is that these same governments are entirely complicit in this mass upheaval of basic democratic--nay, human--rights.

Put yourself in the terrorist's shoes. Compared to the state, you are vastly underfunded, have no legal recourse, and are entirely disenfranchised. What hope do you have of taking down an entity that is far more well-established than you? Of course, your only option is to subvert it by attacking the citizenry. The government's response is to enact more and more restrictions to "protect" the people, until one finds themselves living under a police state. Of course, the attacks haven't stopped--but now the people are either going to revolt, or the economy is going to collapse, or the government has become the real terrorists.

And the government is complicit because they believe that a fearful populace is one that is most controllable. It is not in their interest to educate the people to think for themselves and question authority--they ARE the authority.

History has shown us time and time again that it is not difficult to overthrow kingdoms, republics, dictatorships, or democracies. All it takes is an idea one is willing to die for. The so-called "war on terrorism" is not successfully fought with weapons, nor with diplomacy. It is fought with knowledge. It is for that reason that the United States is losing to a group of fanatics.

well, it won't catch terrorists (5, Insightful)

rpax9000 (916267) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718789)

...but it will catch the real enemy of this administration and of the tsa - folks willing to think for themselves and unwilling to be scared into submitting to big brother.

i already take off my shoes at the airport. and, because my job requires me to fly quite a bit and get where i'm going, i produce id (passport, usually). and every time i take the baggie with my toothpaste and travel-size deodorant out of my carry-on, i throw up in my mouth a little bit.

but i keep doing it.

because i have to pay the mortgage.

i can't remember who said this, but someone once said the 20th/21st century equivalent to the nazi war criminals' "i was just following orders" line will be "well, i had a mortgage to pay"...

We could fly without showing ID, really? (4, Informative)

ugen (93902) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718797)

Amazing - and I am saying this in all seriousness. I did not know this was even allowed. For the past number of years (and really prior to that as well) I know that every time I took a flight, security person at the beginning of the line demanded to see my ID and boarding pass. To the best of my understanding there was no exception to that, they were fairly clear that I would not be permitted to proceed if I don't show the ID.

That and really I wouldn't even get through check in without one - airline registration counter person demands your id first.

Anyone actually flown without going through this in recent years? How did you do that?

Let the airlines go out of business. (1)

SilverBlade2k (1005695) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718819)

Good thing I don't fly, or have much use in flying. The more passengers that the Airlines turn away, the more that the passengers will turn away and stop flying. Let them die. They charge too much anyways.

Did everyone forget... (1)

JimboFBX (1097277) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718831)

That ID is mandatory to checking your bags, getting through security, getting your tickets...

Why would you need to get through security and somehow not have ID? "Uh yeah I don't physically have any tickets, or any baggage, but I forgot my ID..."

Which btw, you still need to present your tickets to get through security, which goes back to that you needed your ID in order to pick them up at the counter.

What about airlines employees (2, Insightful)

ptr2004 (695756) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718843)

Most airline employees can refuse to check you in if you donot have an ID. What good does not showing an ID to a TSA employee do unless you lose your ID between checkin and boarding ?

When is enough? (3, Interesting)

OMNIpotusCOM (1230884) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718881)

I was listening on the radio to someone talking about how Americans don't protest anymore, and we're being taken advantage of because of it. This shit would not have flown 20 years ago. 20 years ago we would have gone to the streets and demanded the head of Bush, Cheney, or whomever we thought was responsible for the deterioration of our rights. I wonder, what's the last straw? When will everyone else stand up and say that this shit is too much?

Big Deal (4, Insightful)

Javagator (679604) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718885)

The government knows exactly how much I make. People can look me up on line and see where I live, and how much I paid for my house. Credit companies know if I am late paying my bills. My credit card company knows what kind of purchases I make, and calls me if I do something unusual. Amazon knows what kind of books I read. Netflix knows what kind of movies I watch. In my county, you can look up my name on line and see if I have an outstanding traffic ticket. So you think I am going to get excited about my "privacy" if I have to show an ID?

Why not simply set the evil bit on ID's (1)

ptr2004 (695756) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718893)

of suspected terrorists ? Should be straightforward to identify them.

Another sad part... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718897)

...is that at Logon International (in Boston), at least, it is far faster if you say you lost or forgot your ID, get patted down, and then go right through, than it is to wait in the regular security lines which have always seemed endless there. Of course now that everyone here knows this, well...maybe the lost id line will get "slashdotted" ;).

How can they ban (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718907)

How can they ban you if they don't know who you are from your ID? think about that...

consitutionally legal? (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718919)

Despite this being a completely stupid TSA policy, is this even technically legal to refuse flight on refused ID? Would this pass muster in court?

Federal court has ruled ID's arn't required (5, Informative)

ebrandsberg (75344) | more than 5 years ago | (#23718927)

1. The TSA stated on Mar 21 2008 that there is no such requirement: http://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/tsa-080226-070-mocek.pdf

2. The requirement to present an ID was also found to not be required by federal court in the so-called "Gilmore" decision, in that someone could choose to subject themselves to additional screening. http://papersplease.org/gilmore/_dl/GilmoreDecision.pdf

3. If the TSA insists that "cooperative" fliers will be allowed through but fliers that simply do not provide ID won't be, this will be brought back to court, and the TSA will loose. They can't play with the rules like this, and if you read the TSA statement, they are basically saying FU to your rights that have already been upheld in court.

Police State USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#23718929)

The USA is becoming an Orwellian nightmare.

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