Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Boy Scouts Ask Open Source Community For Help

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the trustworthy-loyal-helpful-friendly dept.

Software 973

Lucas123 writes "The Boy Scouts of America are looking to the open-source community for help in building software to use for fundraisers, special events, and other functions, for their more than 121,000 local scout troops. Some open source advocates, who are former Boy Scouts, support the idea, despite a few reservations. According to the article, there are no plans for a scout merit badge in open source — but there has been a merit badge in computers since 1967, 'and it is possible that if the program is successful, it could eventually be used by IT-savvy scouts themselves.'"

cancel ×

973 comments

BSA (5, Funny)

dameron (307970) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731025)

I thought they hated open source.

Re:BSA (0, Troll)

Jor-Al (1298017) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731035)

Nah, they just hate gays and atheists//agnostics.

Re:BSA (5, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731243)

So, they don't hate Open Source (tm), they just hate Open Source (tm) advocates.

Re:BSA (4, Insightful)

Curien (267780) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731293)

I was an atheist boy scout, and I used to get into discussions with the troop leaders about religion on a regular basis. They never made me feel uncomfortable or like I didn't belong.

Re:BSA (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731483)

That's interesting, because that goes against their official policy. I'm sure had the local council been made aware of the situation, either you or your troop leader wouldn't have been around much longer. And I'm saying this as someone who knows several people who run one of the regional offices.

Re:BSA (1)

Jor-Al (1298017) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731535)

Then they must have been pretty far removed from the national organization.

Re:BSA (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731643)

nah, he just didn't grow up in the bible belt

Re:BSA (4, Insightful)

fwarren (579763) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731769)

I take it you did go out of your way to make waves.

I believe the problem is when you stand up and scream you are an atheist and want everyone else to change what they are doing to do it your way, is when there are problems.

I think for the most part when you are "different" from a group of people and you elect to be involved with them. That you will be accepted as long as you try to fit in and look for common ground. As opposed to stressing how you are different and they should change who they are, what they have always done, and what they believe so as to make you happy.

Re:BSA (5, Interesting)

Applekid (993327) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731751)

Nah, they just hate gays and atheists//agnostics.
So, when it comes to instilling values and giving youths something to do, no gays nor atheists nor agnostics. When it comes to getting help from the open source community all of a sudden the help from those who are gay and/or atheist or agnostic is perfectly welcome for giving them some free (as in beer) stuff?

Tell them to go shove it and write their own God-fearing straight-male software.

Re:BSA (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731107)

That's the other BSA. This is the one that hates atheists.

Re:BSA (1)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731123)

That's correct.

Well, as long as "source" in this context means "ly gay scoutmasters" or "minds about religion". Otherwise, I'm not sure.

Re:BSA (5, Informative)

sconeu (64226) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731445)

Congrats to everyone who responded to this thread. That whizzing noise you heard was the joke going over your head.

Parent was a joke based on the fact that the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) and the Business Software Alliance (BSA) have the same three-letter abbreviation.

Parent was referring to the second BSA (the MS mouthpieces).

Re:BSA (-1, Flamebait)

stankulp (69949) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731537)

The parent doesn't say BSA.

It says "Boy Scouts of America."

Re:BSA (0, Flamebait)

sigzero (914876) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731681)

Read it you moron. Look at your own title. He only said BSA in his subject. Besides when does /. need anything to throw their hatred at. The Boy Scouts is a great organization. All of you haters disgust me.

Re:BSA (1)

Jor-Al (1298017) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731741)

Yes, I totally agree with them booting out loyal Eagle scouts because they came out of the closet. What a fine, upstanding organization.

Re:BSA (4, Informative)

tonyreadsnews (1134939) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731785)

Actually if you click on the little parent button on the comment you just responded to, you will see that the title is BSA and the text is "I thought they hated open source."

I know you're not new here, but parent != summary...

No (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731029)

The Boy Scouts of America actively discriminate against atheists and homosexuals despite receiving government funding. They can fuck right off.

Re:No (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731267)

Seconded.

Re:No (3, Informative)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731331)

The Boy Scouts of America actively discriminate against non-Christians and homosexuals despite receiving government funding. They can fuck right off.
There fixed it for ya.

Re:No (5, Informative)

sconeu (64226) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731513)

Really? Then how come the BSA has awards for Jewish members (the Ner Tamid award -- I won it back in '75), and my nephew just became an Eagle scout?

Re:No (1)

spike2131 (468840) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731733)

Thats because Jewish organizations play nice with the Boy Scouts. By contrast, similar Unitarian-Universalist emblems have been banned from the Scout uniform.

Re:No (1, Informative)

Borealis (84417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731765)

Perhaps you are confusing the term "atheist" with the term "non-christian". Judaism is still a religion.

Re:No (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731789)

Really? Then how come the BSA has awards for Jewish members (the Ner Tamid award -- I won it back in '75), and my nephew just became an Eagle scout?


Okay, non-Judaeo-Christians. There. Feel better?

Re:No (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731699)

It doesn't matter either way.

They are a youth organization with a charter from congress. They are an acknowledged
military youth auxilliary organization given access to government resources. They are
like a junior version of Sea Cadets or the CAP.

They should be held to at least the same tolerance standards as the Army.

Re:No (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731503)

Get AIDS and die, fag.

Re:No (0, Flamebait)

rcamans (252182) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731593)

No, you gay agnostics can fuck off.
heh heh

thirded... (5, Interesting)

pointbeing (701902) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731633)

I have told scouts at fundraisers that the reason I don't support the Boy Scouts is because of their position on atheism and homosexuality.

Interestingly, the Girl Scouts' official position is that they have no official position on homosexuality.

Penn and Teller's show on the Boy Scouts was fascinating - turns out a huge chunk of the Boy Scouts is financed by the Mormon church.

As a former Boy Scout (1)

spike2131 (468840) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731653)

I absolutely agree. I only hope they get their heads out of their asses by the time my son is old enough to join.

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731657)

Amen to that!

Re:No (1)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731777)

> They can fuck
Actually, that's not their forte.

Let them do what good they can (1)

Psymin (154718) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731791)

Even though I don't condone their policies (and will never buy their wares), I think its honorable that they are doing at least some good by bringing some mainstream PR for FOSS.

yes, well... (4, Interesting)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731033)

Absolutely, love to help 'em.

Just as soon as they lose the institutionalized homophobia and pandering to mythology.

Other than that, I think they're entirely deserving of assistance. And yes, I was a boy scout. :)

Of course, I recognize that as a private organization, they have the right to such stone age views; however, I also have the right to hold them accountable for them.

Boycott (1)

kcbanner (929309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731169)

Yep, their asking a group of the most open-minded people (OSS devs) to help their organization which is still fucking around with discrimination. If they want help they are going to have to move on.

Re:Boycott (4, Insightful)

1155 (538047) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731477)

OSS people can also be the most close minded people I know. Same with most any other generalized group

Re:yes, well... (1)

mastropiero (258677) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731207)

Well, they are not much of a private organization if they receive tax money and services from the government (as I seem to remember from some documentary I think)

Re:yes, well... (1)

jockeys (753885) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731223)

right there with ya. I myself am an Eagle Scout, and was able to do so only about lying about my religion. (or lack thereof)

I will go ahead and say it: despite the many positive things Scouting stands for, I believe that many of its core values are antithetical to the open-source mindset.

(e.g. homophobia, religious discrimination)

Re:yes, well... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731253)

Using the word "homophobia" in regard to a legal choice to beleive one's religion is HATE speech no different than using the N word.

Referring to religion as mythology is also HATE speech.

You appear to only recognize free speech as speech that agrees with you. If you don't want to send money to scouting, that is your choice. If you don't want to have anything to do with them, fine. If you want to try to persuade them that they are wrong, with logic not violence, fine.

Re:yes, well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731505)

No, it's not.

Homophobia is a choice, not an immutable trait like homosexuality.

Even within whatever mouthbreathing sect of Christianity you observe, you still have a choice.

If you choose to discriminate against people because of something they can't help, you (and the Boy Scouts) can sod right off.

p.s. God hates shrimp [godhatesshrimp.com] .

Re:yes, well... (1)

Curien (267780) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731731)

Homophobia is a choice, not an immutable trait like homosexuality.
What makes you think homosexuality is immutable? Would it matter if it weren't?

Re:yes, well... (0, Troll)

ettlz (639203) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731509)

Referring to religion as mythology is also HATE speech.

Oh, fuck off. Bullshit its bullshit however you label it.

It's speaking the truth which is evidently too much for some types to handle. And who here was advocating violence?

No-one has the right to not be offended.

Re:yes, well... (3, Insightful)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731717)

Using the word "homophobia" in regard to a legal choice to beleive(sic) one's religion is HATE speech... Referring to religion as mythology is also HATE speech.

Nonsense. It's just accurate reporting. Religion is mythology. Stories. There are no facts whatsoever behind those stories in the important areas (specifically the existence of deities.) There is no more basis in reason for believing in a deity than there is for believing in the tooth fairy, unless you count peer pressure as a legitimate force for belief. Those stories remain in force because people are gullible, fearful, and uninformed in critical areas, and because there are legions of people around who prey on those who exhibit said vulnerabilities.

You appear to only recognize free speech as speech that agrees with you.

No, not at all. I recognize all kinds of speech, and encourage the use of it by all. That's the only way we can know which people take which positions. That in no way says I have to agree with the positions taken, and (this is the important part for you to study), it in no way obligates me to remain silent in the face of things I disagree with.

In this case, the BSA asked for help. I'm one of those who could help, and I'm also an alumnus. I'm declining, and I'm saying why I'm declining. If that upsets you, perhaps you should re-examine your core values. Or come up with a better argument than (cough) "hate speech", which is a crock.

Re:yes, well... (1, Informative)

Fortunato_NC (736786) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731795)

If you want to try to persuade them that they are wrong, with logic not violence, fine.

Seriously, do you have ANY idea how ironic this statement is?

Just a few examples of how Christians "persuade" people that they are wrong:

  1. The Crusades
  2. The Spanish Inquisition
  3. Jewish Blood Libel
  4. Forced Conversion of Conquered Peoples
  5. Abortion Clinic Bombings / Murders of Doctors

And calling the Boy Scouts homophobic is hate speech. You, my deluded friend, have no sense of scale, and your irony meter is busted beyond repair. Good luck with that.

Freedom is lovely, and hated. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731263)

They are a PRIVATE group. Let them be.

I understand, you too have the freedom to be against them, both in speech and in financial support.

There are many groups I don't care for, want to see removed, but I value FREEDOM. If I can practice my mythology (I hold to a faith that is often insulted, ridiculed) and hold views that are contrary to YOUR view.

So sure, speak out. Personally I find I enjoy life a bit more when I just enjoy the idea of people enjoying their FREEDOM.

Violence and harm to others on the other hand should never be tolerated.

Re:Freedom is lovely, and hated. (1)

Hairy Heron (1296923) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731605)

I hold to a faith that is often insulted, ridiculed
So you're a Muslim?

Re:Freedom is lovely, and hated. (2, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731797)

They are not a "private" group by any means.

Achievements in "private groups" don't get you brownie points
on US military academy admissions.

Re:yes, well... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731337)

I am/was an Eagle Scout and I couldn't agree more. Get rid of the discrimination against gays and atheists and I would be happy to support the organization. Until then, screw them. They already get to discriminate against people and get sweet heart deals on to host their meetings on public property.

Cap'n Crunch (1)

UdoKeir (239957) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731571)

I say send Crunch [slashdot.org] along to help them out. He'd fit right in.

Re:yes, well... (0, Flamebait)

Experiment 626 (698257) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731635)

They're almost as intolerant as you are. You managed to dismiss religious faith as "mythology" and "stone age views", and equate moral criticism of homosexuality with irrational phobias (no one could possibly have different values than you unless they're being irrational, right?). The Boy Scouts don't even begin to approach your level of bigotry, so what is it you feel the need to "hold them accountable for"?

Re:yes, well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731645)


Just as soon as they lose the institutionalized homophobia and pandering to mythology.

I guess respecting the religion of others isn't as important as respecting sexual orientation?

Exactly ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731713)

I completely agree with you. My kids aren't going to be going anywhere near them until the accept all our relatives.

They are completely capable of "getting rid of stone age views" if they want to - after all boy scouts originally had to pledge their loyalty to the king, they chose to get rid of that bit when they moved to the US

they need to do something about the whole child abuse thing too, it seems to be ongoing, a good friend's son turns out to have been a recent victim

Tell them this: (5, Informative)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731041)

Until they remove the "MPAA approved" copyright merit badge, dont help them in any way.

Or... Does anybody remember THIS [arstechnica.com] ? I do.

Re:Tell them this: (1)

martinw89 (1229324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731219)

I should have saved my mod points for today. Thanks for the info.

Re:Tell them this: (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731579)

I'm amazed that somebody didnt say that sooner than I. I just searched "Boy Scouts MPAA merit badge" and the ars link was first.

The internet is a nice recording tool, especially for bad behavior the majority of us want to stop. Too bad that most people have bad memories to even recall such events.

Misleading... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731539)

It's not a merit badge, it's a patch.

Re:Tell them this: (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731597)

It's a patch, not a badge. It may sound like nitpicking, but they really are different. A patch is a little something you can put on your uniform that your local BSA council can make up on the spot, usually with little or no supervision that you did anything. A merit badge is a nationally approved badge with certified councilors and a constant paper trail. It's a hell of a lot easier to make a badge than a patch.

Re:Tell them this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731607)

D'oh, I'm retarded. It should read that a patch is a lot easier to make than a badge...

Re:Tell them this: (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731723)

And I was in Boy Scouts for 2 years also.

I dont recall the actual distinctions between a Merit Badge and a patch. We worked our asses off for each "flair" we got, regardless of the name associated.

Our Troop fell apart after the parent responsible for it couldnt do it any more. Since there was nobody else, we just quit.

Re:Tell them this: (3, Informative)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731621)

There has never been a "Copyright merit badge" - that was just a cloth patch associated with some misguided local event.

No way - I wouldn't help (4, Interesting)

pestie (141370) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731081)

The Boy Scouts still discriminate against atheists and homosexuals. They're also a huge organization with no shortage of cash, and they're infiltrated by ultra-conservative Mormons and other Jesus freaks [about.com] . They're just looking for something for free. Fuck 'em.

Re:No way - I wouldn't help (2, Interesting)

54mc (897170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731467)

While I agree that discrimination by any group, including and perhaps especially the Boy Scouts is wrong, I can't help but think that the good far outweighs the bad. The program teaches many skills that today's youth lack. These include self-responsibility and helping others; two things which America's youth are surely lacking in.

To BSA's critics who claim cases of "institutionalized homophobia" and other discriminations, I must ask that you show me where the "institutionalized" part of it comes in. The closest I can find to discrimination against atheists or gays is in the Scout Oath which states:
"On my honor I will do my est to do my duty to God and my country" and "to keep myself... morally straight"
The first of these, I agree, is pretty hard to argue around, but I'm going to try. The point of this part of the oath is not to affirm belief in god or higher power, but rather to show that you know you're not the most important person in the world. It is similar to the second and third steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, which are:
2. [We] came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. [We] made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
As I said, the point of these is not to turn the program into a religion, but rather to establish that the participant is not as important as they may think.

Morally Straight - The oath does not state that one will be sexually straight, but rather morally straight. That is, they will do the right thing. I think the real problem here is not that the wording was designed to trick people, but rather that people have gotten so used to being politically correct that they can't see the word "straight" as meaning anything but heterosexual.

Re:No way - I wouldn't help (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731737)

To BSA's critics who claim cases of "institutionalized homophobia" and other discriminations, I must ask that you show me where the "institutionalized" part of it comes in.
It's how the BSA won the right to discriminate, by claiming it was critical to they're organization. You can't get more institutionalized than that!

Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the majority. He said in part: "The Boy Scouts asserts that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the values it seeks to instill. [Requiring the Scouts to accept homosexual scoutmasters] would significantly burden the organization's right to oppose or disfavor homosexual conduct."

Any Gay Programmers "Out" There? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731087)

Knowing about the homophobic attitudes of the BSA, I hope that plenty of gay programmers offer to "help" out with their little project.

They only want your help if... (4, Insightful)

SeattleGameboy (641456) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731125)

I wonder if anybody can help out or do they only want help from hetersexual and religious programmers?

Wouldn't it be bit of a double standard if they won't allow atheists and homosexuals to join, but will gladly accept free labor from them?

Re:They only want your help if... (1)

Myopic (18616) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731461)

Yes and no.

The Boy Scouts only discriminate against gays and atheists that they are aware of. If you don't think there are some godless gay Scout Leaders, you have another thing coming. So, they only object to out, proud atheists and homosexuals.

So, I think their (immoral) homophobic stance is indeed incompatible with contemporary social standards, but moreover it is primarily contrary to the Open Source model. Indeed, haven't we seen that an open society has improved itself the way open source has? With more eyeballs and more data, both civilization and software improve.

Re:They only want your help if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731641)

Shhh... Don't tell them about Alan Turing. Heaven forbid they're using machines that were all made possible by the life's work of a gay man. OH NO! Their little world might just crumble into chaos and ruin.

Maybe they should go back to using pen and paper and smoke signals (since all telecom equipment is run by computers as well now, telegraphs are not an option)

As a former boy scout - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731127)

... as long as they continue to require belief in some form of "higher power" they can go fuck themselves.

Freedom of Religion ftw, nubs. For that stance alone I'm ashamed to have been part of the organization.

LOL - Boy Scouts (1)

mlwmohawk (801821) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731131)

Let's see:

Homophobic anti-atheist organization that sides with MPAA.

Yea, I'd help them. NOT.

Re:LOL - Boy Scouts (2, Funny)

Denger256 (1161267) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731231)

Yea, I'd help them. NOT.
The 90's called and they want their sarcasm back

Re:LOL - Boy Scouts (1)

Lord_Frederick (642312) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731321)

HAHA...BURN! Oh crap, I'm stuck in the 90's too.

Re:LOL - Boy Scouts (2, Insightful)

MarcoG42 (1087205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731417)

The 90's called and they want their sarcasm back

+ + error: infinite loop dedicted + +
+ + out of cheese error - redo from start + +

Hey, they will not let my kid in (4, Informative)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731237)

My kid was told that he couldn't join, because he said that he didn't believe in their "supreme being". One scout leader, high example of morality that they are, told him to "just lie", but he would not. I should support a group like this?

Re:Hey, they will not let my kid in (1)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731521)

Something of a paradox. But easily solved: http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/4192 [quotedb.com]

I agree... (1)

Kr3m3Puff (413047) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731271)

The first thought in my mind is as the Supreme Court rightfully upheld their ability to be biggots, we as a community have every right to tell them to go somehwere else and pay for their needs.

Money goes a long way of getting past my social obligations....

Open/Free != Gratis (3, Insightful)

kfort (1132) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731289)

If they are serious about the values of open source, why don't they offer a bounty as incentive to write the software?

Re:Open/Free != Gratis (4, Insightful)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731527)

Or better yet, have their own employees and scouts develop the skeleton project themselves. There must be SOMEONE in an organization that claims to be the size they do with some computer skills.

Perhaps they kicked those folks out for disagreeing with their religion.

Donate your time to help restore Order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731311)

Don't forget the Oppress Non Christian button.

Free/Open Source Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731345)

The BSA is welcome to use existing Free and Open Source Software. The majority of F/OSS have no use restrictions banning Christian homophobes, Military industrialists, or flaming Pinkos.

If there are specific needs that the BSA have, which are not currently met, they can open feature requests with the individual F/OSS projects. They can either wait until someone has a matching need that wants to fulfill the requests or they can pay some F/OSS developers to complete the features. According to the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America#Finance [wikipedia.org] they can certainly afford to pay a few developers. They had revenues of $665.9 million in 2005 and they paid their "Chief Scout Executive" an annual salary of $916,028 in 2007.

Eagle scout project (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731365)

Sounds like a good eagle scout progect.

An open source merit badge would be silly (4, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731383)

What would make sense is a track toward earning the Computing/IT merit badge that was heavy on open-source development and programming.

BTW sorry for attempting to be on-topic; feel free to continue the ranting... (hello -1 karma!)

What do they want? (2, Funny)

blackjackshellac (849713) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731397)

There's tons of information out there, linux distros galore, open office, et. al. They want me to hold their hand or something?

Nah, that would be kinda gay.

I will help if they will renounce that god fo theirs, the hippie one, who needs money all the time. At lot of money.

...and all is right with the world... (1)

HaeMaker (221642) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731399)

I was going to come here to discuss their exclusionary nature. It seems I will have to take a number...

Number 32?

No wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731437)

...open source sucks. It's full of fags!

Serious concern there around non boy scout types (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731459)

If they can refuse membership to kids, are they going to vet and refuse software that was written by gays, atheists, agnostics, women?

Because I think they are going to have a hard time finding software that meets those criteria.

I was a cub scout-- love them to death-- definately a patriotic/nationalistic type organization. The entire religion thing has gotten a bit out of hand from what it was like when I was a kid. But they can believe what they want as long as they don't try to use free government buildings to promote their now religious agenda. And I'd prefer that they not be hypocritical about using products from people they would exclude to save some money.

Great idea! Let's fight bigotry by being bigots! (5, Insightful)

FishAdmin (1288708) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731471)

Everyone has the right to withhold their help from ANY organization whose ideals or methods they don't agree with, and I'll be the first one to support that expression of your beliefs. However, all that I've found the Boy Scouts do is stand on their expressed belief system. They don't agree with homosexuality, and they believe in God, but I've yet to see them march against homosexuality or bbeat children that were found to be Athiest. Please make sure you don't label "disagreement" the same thing as "hatemongering". Everyone has a right to disagree; no one has the right to prosecute another for their beliefs, as long as those beliefs don't infringe upon the rights of another. Withhold or provide your support as you see fit, but don't think that just because someone doesn't agree with you that means they hate you. As for the MPAA...there's no real defense on that one. Sorry, LA Scout branch: that was simply stupid. Teach your kids not to steal ANYTHING; don't limit your lessons to music and movies.

Re:Great idea! Let's fight bigotry by being bigots (1)

Buzz_Litebeer (539463) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731613)

well said

Re:Great idea! Let's fight bigotry by being bigots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731673)

Nope, no marches, and no beatings. Just exclusion of children for being "different". BSA claims to build leaders. Are the bigots being produced by their exclusionary policies really the leaders we'd like to see in the future? From an organization which was founded to be an alternative to the church-based youth groups, I think it's sad that the right-wing religious nut jobs have taken over.

Re:Great idea! Let's fight bigotry by being bigots (1)

seanonymous (964897) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731745)

So, you're saying that when a, let's say a country club, excludes, let's say blacks, they're not being racist, they just 'disagree' with other peoples' skin color. Bigots are bigots, frigtard.

BSA (3, Funny)

phrostie (121428) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731475)

just wait till the BSA finds out what the BSA is doing

Is this the same boy scouts I was in? (2, Interesting)

Mavexe (1305293) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731507)

We didn't have any homo bashing people when I was in. We had kids who chose not to partake in religous activities (me being one of them). I will admit it's somewhat shiesty of them to ask for free software because they're so cheap, and that it will turn around to bite them on the ass years down the road. Is software like this necassary to sell popcorn anyways? Planning camp outs as well? Bust out the damned notebook paper.

Just ask... (1)

Wubby (56755) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731617)

the mormons for more money!

Strange (1)

edmicman (830206) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731649)

Reading the CW article it sounded like they just needed/wanted some sort of CMS to help organize things nationally. For that, there's TONS of OSS CMS systems out there.

But on the scouting.org page itself, "Open Source Software" is thrown around as a buzzword so much my head hurt. It sounds like they want to create a Scout-centric Sourceforge type of place? Why not just compile a list of applications that mostly meed their needs, then augment them as they see need (while contributing back to the community of course)? Or are they looking for the manpower to do it in the first place?

computer merit badge since 1967 (1)

rcamans (252182) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731669)

Actually, Explorer Scouts had a computer track by 1964 (I was in it then)

I've seen more tolerance in the Boy Scouts (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731693)

I've seen more TOLERANCE in the Boy Scouts than on this thread. The Boy Scouts teach tolerance for other points of view while maintaining their membership standards. Perhaps the members of this threead could learn the lessons about tolerance and respect of other points of view while disagreeing with them. In general this is how civilized societies behave. This is also how issues get debated.

Simply put The Boy Scouts insist that mbmbers are reverent to their idea of a supreme being. Yes your religion could be Jedi if you wanted it to be.

As far as the homosexuality issue, this is a result of a basic moral code they ascribe to. This is their right. Efforts to discriminate aginst the Boyscouts Because of their moral beliefs sound strangly hollow when those who want their moral beliefs to be free of discrimination.

Also, their youth protection guidelines come into play. I know of few parents that would feel comfortable knowing that young boys were in the keeping of homosexual leaders. This may be stereotyping, but that is the way most parents think.

Overview of the fuss (1)

fred fleenblat (463628) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731701)

From wikipedia of course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies [wikipedia.org]

"The Boy Scouts of America (BSA), the largest youth organization in the United States, has policies which prohibit atheists, agnostics, and "known or avowed" homosexuals from membership in its Scouting program; both youths and adults have had their memberships revoked as a result."

Open-source auditing software... (1)

butterwise (862336) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731705)

I hear the Cult *ahem* Church of Scientology is also looking for to the open-source community for help in building software to use for fundraisers, special events, and auditing celebrity members.

Good Message (1, Interesting)

Rydia (556444) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731709)

Open Source Software: only for people we like.

Or, answering bigotry with more bigotry.

If someone wants to code their program for them, that's their business. If it helps the community, that is great. All this talk about the BSA "deserving" the help of "the community" is ridiculous. Just a load of projecting one's own feelings onto a very large and diverse group of people, who as smaller groups or individuals may or may not agree with your views.

Hatemongering? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731767)

I've seen more hate expressed in these comments than I have ever seen expressed by the BSA. So they have a policy that actually affirms their beliefs and they enforce it...GASP...that's cause for us to band together and burn them all at the stake! Wow, an organization that actually has beliefs and enforces them...what a concept.

As for accepting government money, shall we talk about the numerous religious organizations that freely meet in public school buildings, government buildings, etc. and who also preach against homosexuality and affirm a belief in a God? Oh, but wait, those are OK because they don't actively exclude homosexuals from membership.

Pardon me, I forgot.

As an atheist... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731787)

I have to say the policies of the BSA leadership greatly saddened me and have actively discouraged me from seeking any participation with my own sons.

I had already received my Eagle Scout award when the James Dale lawsuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dale) hit the news, and had never even considered that being either gay or an atheist would be incompatible with scouting. (I actually signed a brief for Dale's case, affirming that during my time in scouting there was no indication that these groups were intended to be excluded.) But I was blissfully unaware that the organization was actually led by right-wing Christianist activists who wanted to turn it into yet another indoctrination tool.

I would sincerely ask any open source programmer looking to help them out to consider if this is the sort of organization you want to assist.

Wow... (1, Informative)

Beefslaya (832030) | more than 6 years ago | (#23731811)

As an atheist Eagle Scout, I never once felt oppressed. I just chose not to go to Non-Denominational services.

As far as gays go, they are of the same policy "don't ask, don't tell" as the military.

For obvious reasons, if you are affiliated with NAMBLA, you won't be allow to be a Scoutmaster.

It really amazes me the ignorance out there for this organization that truly helps youth (boys and girls) put their heads on straight and open their minds to so many possibilities.

I'll be helping with some of the projects. I owe the organization for my achievements.

Maybe some of you out there have 2 cents to give??

*gasp* Libertarian Linux Programmer supports BSA? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23731813)

I'm a strong Libertarian, a professional Linux programmer, _and_ a Sunday School teacher. My church (Unity) is Christian, while openly accepting gays and atheists / agnostics.

Our old pastor was an Eagle Scout, but wouldn't allow us to sponsor a Scout Troop because of the homosexuality issue. Our new pastor is fine with us sponsoring a Scout Troop.

I am 100% in agreement with the sentiments of all the other posts in this article, namely disgust with the BSA's infiltration by Mormons, pandering to the MPAA/RIAA, and prejudice against gays and non-Christians.

Why then, you may be asking, would I still spend time and effort sponsoring a Scout Troop? Because it's the BEST WE'VE GOT. Go ahead, show me a comparably mature organization offering the structure young men need with free access to all of the campground and other facilities.

There are students in my Sunday School class that we've lost to juvie or worse, tragedies that could have been avoided if there was something equivalent to a Scout Troop available. Even if we ran into problems with forming an official BSA Troop, we were going to create the non-BSA equivalent (Unity Scouts or something).

Lastly, you can be damned certain we'll be teaching the kids good principles, not the gay-bashing or whatever most /.'ers seem to think is the only thing possible.

I say the FOSS movement should step up to bat on this one to show we're not petty, angry little children like most of the comments I've seen so far.

-AC

(Note: I'm only posting as AC to protect the identities of Church members and children.)
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...