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XP Deathwatch, T Minus 2 Weeks

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the how-to-really-spike-linux-and-mac-adoption dept.

Windows 597

CWmike writes "June 30 is Microsoft's deadline for mainstream computer makers to stop selling new PCs with the old operating system, and the date that it will stop shipping boxed copies to retailers. That's just two weeks away. Computerworld offers a FAQ about XP's approaching retirement after Microsoft's most recent relaxation of the retirement rules, with some details about which machines big-brand computer makers will be selling with XP after June 30. First FAQ: Any sign that Microsoft will reprieve Windows XP's retirement? Sort of."

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I hope so (2, Insightful)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816433)

With Liunx getting in to there market (with moblie PC, sub note books) this can only help.

Re:I hope so (5, Informative)

hardburn (141468) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816723)

There's an explicit exception for the mini-notebook market, for the very reason that Microsoft is afraid that Linux will sweep it.

Re:I hope so (2, Insightful)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816833)

Thats only for XP home isnt it? And thats a dog of an Os. Even more so than vista home.

Re:I hope so (5, Informative)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816969)

iirc XP home is crippled in a number of ways. The ones that spring to mind are.
* it can't join a domain
* the file permissions and file sharing permissions sytems are crippled
* I don't think it can be a remote desktop server (but i'm pretty sure it can be a remote desktop client)

I don't see any of theese as showstoppers for an ultraportable.

BTW you will still be able to get XP pro though vista buisness or ultimate downgrade rights and the big brand OEMs are now allowed to supply downgrade media and even ship systems pre-downgraded.

Re:I hope so (2, Interesting)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816863)

yeah I know but its still a market that Linux is very competitive in. XP cant be in that market segment for that long (they say 2011). What will Microsoft's new product for this market be?

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816443)

They might stop selling it but I bet they will support it for a long time. I shall guess 2012.

Re:Anonymous Coward (5, Informative)

isorox (205688) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816487)

Re:Anonymous Coward (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816635)

Amazing. You can't even get Linux distro support for that long which is sad.

Re:Anonymous Coward (1)

mini me (132455) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816795)

Linux is open source which means that absolutely anybody can offer you support on the product. I find it extremely hard to believe that by 2014 there will be nobody in the world willing to support older Linux installations.

Re:Anonymous Coward (5, Informative)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816847)

bullshit, my employer (and I) will support any version of GNU/Linux from the last 18 years for our clients in Chicagoland area, for a price.

Re:Anonymous Coward (2, Interesting)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816983)

Sure, you can get support from independent companies and individuals for a price. I'm sure that you can do the same for Windows XP, for a price. GNU/Linux makes it much easier because of source code availability. But that doesn't change the fact that there aren't any Linux distros out there that will support each released version for 12 years like MS is doing with XP.

Re:Anonymous Coward (2, Informative)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 6 years ago | (#23817007)

There are two sides to "support", problem support and security update support.

Problem support can be provided by third parties, especially with an open source system like linux.

Security update support basically means someone has to monitor all the software in the distribution for secrity issues and then work out how to backport those fixes. While it would certainly be possible to do this for an indvidual customer I suspect few could afford it.

Of course not everyone cares about security updates. If the machines exposure can be kept to a minimum you may be able to live without them but for many users they are particularlly important.

Re:Anonymous Coward (1)

enoz (1181117) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816907)

I'm pretty sure RedHat would be happy to support you, for a price.

Re:Anonymous Coward (1, Redundant)

lena_10326 (1100441) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816937)

Amazing. You can't even get Linux distro support for that long which is sad.
Why would it be needed when upgrading the Linux kernel is a matter of download/compile/boot. Can't do that with windows. Must repurchase the OS to gain feature additions and accumulated bug fixes. If you're paying, and paying, and paying, you're going to expect longer periods of support.

Re:Anonymous Coward (3, Informative)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 6 years ago | (#23817001)

Must repurchase the OS to gain feature additions and accumulated bug fixes.
I've owned XP since about a year after it was released. Not once have I had to pay again for patches and updates to it. I'll still be able to get patches and updates until the end-of-support is reached.

So... (3, Insightful)

Alarindris (1253418) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816445)

Does this mean that they will stop all updates and patching for XP as well? Or is that farther down the road?

Either way, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, because soon enough, the updates will stop, XP machines will be virus infested and even my grandma will have beef with Microsoft!

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816501)

Does this mean that they will stop all updates and patching for XP as well? Or is that farther down the road?
RTFS (Read the fine summary.)

Re:So... (5, Informative)

Zymergy (803632) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816603)

Support for Windows XP SP2 ends on 07-13-2010. http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean31 [microsoft.com]
The "Extended Support" phase is scheduled to end on 04-08-2014 for Windows XP SP3. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-XP-SP3-Brings-the-Death-of-SP2-July-13-2010-85986.shtml [softpedia.com]

Yes, I too agree it must be *meant to be* confusing.... It is just the Microsoft Way. I think there are several amortization table calculations involved in the selection of the dates too... http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy [microsoft.com]

Re:So... (1)

The Great Pretender (975978) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816909)

Actually, what it means is that XP distros will retire from main office computers and go on vacation for a while. After 6 months XP distros will realize that, due to recent medical breakthroughs, they will exist beyond the 10 years predicted when hey first set-up their retirement accounts and have to go back to work to make supplemental money. Thus we will see more XP distros turn up in MacDonald's and as Walmart shelf-stockers. The problem here is that younger, faster distros who are just looking for the foot-in-the-door start and some meager health benefits to support further development of their, education, family and lifestyle will be pushed aside and not given the chance. They will subsequently find themselves in the gutter or sweeping the floors at the local public restrooms, never to blossom forth into the potential they could be.

Make people realise the benefit of OSS (2, Insightful)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816451)

Windows: You run the software MS tells you to, according to MSs business interests.

OSS: You run the software you want to run, according to your business interests.

Want to run Linux 2.0 (not that you'd want to)? Sure no probs.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816463)

What is this Linux you speak of? I'm curious and wish to read a brochure on the subject.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816499)

http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.0/linux-2.0.40.tar.bz2

Get it while it's hot :).

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816661)

As your Oracle sales representative about it...

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

Luke-Jr (574047) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816493)

I'm not so sure you can really run Linux 2.0 anymore... It probably requires GCC 1 or 2 and won't build with anything recent.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816571)

Ahhh those kids, always looking for new and shiny things. I am still running 0.01 [kerneltrap.org] . If ain't break don't touch it.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (4, Funny)

chimpo13 (471212) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816745)

that comment would be funnier if you had a 2 digit user id.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816583)

You can get the source for gcc 1.x if you want too.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1, Informative)

some_guy_88 (1306769) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816523)

Want to run Linux 2.0 (not that you'd want to)? Sure no probs.
Yeah? Who's supporting Linux 2.0 either commercially or otherwise?

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (3, Interesting)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816845)

You would be surprised. It depends on the market, but it sure is still out there and active in a none to small number of routers and closed blackboxes.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

Bender_ (179208) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816557)


How many large distributions still support sucurity updates for old kernel versions? Sure, the lonely hacker at home can mod and update old kernel versions ad nauseam, but for a company that is no real option.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816607)

Want to run Linux 2.0 (not that you'd want to)? Sure no probs.

No 'probs' with licensing maybe, but beyond that, you can expect plenty of 'probs' running anything modern in terms of hardware or software on it. Being able to do something legally isn't worth much if you can't really do it in practice.

I'm not saying Windows is superior. I'm just highlighting that either way you are going to be on an upgrade treadmill to keep up with security updates, hardware updates, feature updates, and so on.

While legal, it would probably be exceedingly impractical to actually get PostgreSQL 8.2 running to take advantage of the latest features and fixes on Redhat 4. (from 1996, kernel 2.0.18 according to wikipedia)

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (5, Insightful)

hacker (14635) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816703)

No 'probs' with licensing maybe, but beyond that, you can expect plenty of 'probs' running anything modern in terms of hardware or software on it.

I think I missed your point here. Linux runs on more hardware, more architectures and more platforms than Windows ever has. Linux has support for hardware, protocols, filesystems and technologies LONG before Windows does. Linux had the first, working Wireless USB drivers and specification before Microsoft even thought about it. Linux has more software applications available to it (by several orders of magnitude), and even runs most Windows software if necessary.

So what exactly were you trying to say above? Because I missed it. If you want something that supports current, bleeding edge hardware and software, Linux is the only way to go. If you want something that supports 15+ year old hardware, Linux is the only way to go.

If you want to play games on your computer and not much else, Windows is probably a good fit.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (2, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816823)

So what exactly were you trying to say above? Because I missed it. If you want something that supports current, bleeding edge hardware and software, Linux is the only way to go.

But that "Linux" isn't Linux 2.0 now is it?

To run the current stuff you need a current Linux. So you are still on the upgrade treadmill. Its not as forced as windows, but in practice its very similar.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

hacker (14635) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816957)

But that "Linux" isn't Linux 2.0 now is it?
There is no such thing as "Linux 2.0", now is there? I don't know of any distribution of Linux bearing that title. Can you point me to one?

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

Rutulian (171771) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816869)

If you want something that supports current, bleeding edge hardware and software, Linux is the only way to go.

I sympathize with your POV, but this simply isn't true. If the hardware is closed (still lots of wireless, some raid, some nic, some ACPI, some weird usb devices like webcams and such, graphics hardware), you're going to have a hell of a time getting linux to recognize it. It is certainly true, though, that linux supports various architectures (like x86, ppc, x86-64, ia64, etc) very well and much better than Windows.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816939)

Wow with it being so awesome, no wonder why Linux is the predominate operating system.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

enoz (1181117) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816973)

I was about to reply about how it was possible, then realised the difference between Red Hat 4 (1996) and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 (2005+).

Damn Red Hat and their naming schemes.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

Rutulian (171771) | more than 6 years ago | (#23817019)

While legal, it would probably be exceedingly impractical to actually get PostgreSQL 8.2 running to take advantage of the latest features and fixes on Redhat 4. (from 1996, kernel 2.0.18 according to wikipedia)

Actually, it probably wouldn't be that hard. It would be a bit crazy, but PostgreSQL just needs something to compile it, and the required libraries. A better example would have been Gimp 2.4 (or some other desktop app), because that relies on libraries that require more recent kernel versions.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816615)



Exactly... with FLOSS YOU own your computer.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (2, Insightful)

Paralizer (792155) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816623)

Try telling this to a large company that is current running Windows Server 2003 servers with hundreds, if not thousands of, Windows XP clients. Yeah I'm sure it would be worth it for them to completely up and move their infrastructure to OSS.

I use Linux at home. It's great for home and does exactly what I want and need it to do. We run Windows at work. It's great for work and does (mostly) what we want and need it to do. Clients integrate nicely with the Active Directory system, with the Exchange server, we get a decent Office suite, and most importantly we get centralized support. I can't say from experience how well MS support actually is, but I can't imagine FOSS giving much phone support if my NFS server goes down for some reason.

What about all the various backup products, such as tape backups and seamless server redundancy? Are there alternatives for this for Linux? What assurances does a large company who absolutely can not afford significant downtime have that the software is well supported by professionals on call and that bugs are constantly being fixed?

This isn't all just Microsoft, this is the entire MS platform. There are thousands of tools that are necessary for full production environments that were designed specifically for Windows. Companies need this stuff.

Though I may not like Microsoft much, I do admit they have a nice overall package for easily setting up and maintaining a production network. They have lots of tools that fit together easily. While there may be Linux alternatives for some of this stuff, if you go to a business and tell them that they will likely say, "and what happens if it goes down?"

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (4, Informative)

Secrity (742221) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816835)

I run several RHEL 4 and 5 servers at work. I have called Red Hat support a couple of times and got excellent support. I would say that Red Hat telephone support was as good as or better than Sun support is. The email support is pretty good, but it is from India.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816877)

Well... you should know that if your mandriva, rhel, sles or ubuntu server goes down for whatever reason, your "phone" support will be there, will probably be oodles better than any kind of local MS shope you may have (linux engies are typically more knowledgable of what the hell breaks, and why did it break, while winnie engies are typically clickmonkeys that are paid to read kb.microsoft.com) and its about 349 USD per year (12x5) or double that for a 24x7 phone support plan. Support includes the software. ALL of the software.

This isnt the 90's okay? Linux distro companies sell support, not linux distros.

I love OSS and make money on Windows (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816671)

Windows: You run the software MS tells you to, according to MSs business interests.

You can run any software that is written for Windows and it will work! That's what makes Windows wonderful.

OSS: You run the software you want to run, according to your business interests.

This may be true, but, how do you run it? What libraries will you need? What the hell is a kernel? What does it mean to compile?

Until there is a bullet-proof installation method - Linux will remain out of the SMB world. The corporate world has a place for Linux on the desktop but NOT because it is open-source. It's because it works, is cheap(er) and fits a need.

Why is the Apple awesome for SMBs? Easy install using thier DMG files.

I personally use Linux for some development stuff, own an iPhone and Mac Mini AND use my Windows Vista laptop for day to day uses. Why? I use what works.

Re:I love OSS and make money on Windows (1)

gslavik (1015381) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816765)

umm, you do know about the package management system, right? The only thing I compile on my Linux system is Wine, only because I get the sources faster than the distribution can build them.

How I read your post (3, Funny)

shrikel (535309) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816811)

Linux will remain out of the [server message block] world.

Now I know samba has its bugs, but come on... it's not THAT bad.

</deliberate_misunderstanding>

Re:I love OSS and make money on Windows (4, Informative)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816901)

Bullet proof means preinstalled on certified hardware, I guess...

Look at the trends: all non-whitebox servers in the world (worth of mention) are sold linux certified and preinstalled. Dell has certified linux laptops. HP/CQ has a pretty nice list of linux certified laptops (they sell them to ya preinstalle as well).

Man... where do this people come from? Linux is already out there! Go buy a box with it on it and youll never, ever, look back.

Re:Make people realise the benefit of OSS (1)

amdpox (1308283) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816803)

While I don't think MS are making a good move for themselves by stopping XP in any way, it can only be a good thing for OSS: Vista may not be that bad (if you have the latest updates, and some lucky hardware... all my personal experiences with vista have been bad), but it's made a very bad name for itself, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot more of the slightly tech-savvy yet not already OSS-running people out there trying out alternatives (particularly the "easy" Linux distros like Ubuntu), and finding that for the average user, they are perfectly adequate and, in many ways, easier and more pleasurable to use than whatever Microsoft is offering. MS are in with problems unless Vienna/win7 comes out soon, and is good. And that's a good thing.

Not paying attention to consumer demand (5, Insightful)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816457)

This is a clear case of a large company making what they want and totally ignoring consumer demand. What people really want is a better version of XP and for continued support. I for one (if I am to use Windows (and then only in a virtualized environment)) would gladly pay $99 or whatever for an upgraded version of XP that is still very much like XP. Apple is making a strong move I feel with Snow Leopard. People like Leopard. They are releasing Leopard, but "better". I'd pay for it in a heartbeat, as stability and speed is well worth money to me. If they made an XP "better", I'd go for it and pay for the upgrade. That's the goal isn't it? For people to pay for the next thing?

But, that's not what they are doing. They figure people want excessively high system requirements, "more secure" environments (which aren't really better security models, just annoying prompts often) and pretty graphics. Hell, I was happy with the graphics in Windows 2000, and in fact when I use XP I turn it back to Win2K themes always.

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (5, Interesting)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816521)

I have over 200 machines in my domain. I tend to replace one or two a month and they can pry my corporate copy of XP from my cold dead hands. For folks like me that don't necessarily have the latest and greatest hardware Vista isn't even an option (the majority are single-core P4's with less than 1GB RAM). I use Linux on all of my servers and my personal workstation but until I can run AutoCAD, Rhino, and Photoshop without glitching and at full-speed I can't make a complete switch. The way Microsoft is alienating their lower-end customers like this is so tragic it's funny. I have to believe that there are other admins out there with the same problem.

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (3, Funny)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816919)

....and they can pry my corporate copy of XP from my cold dead hands.
The Voice From Redmond: "Be carefull what you wish for, Mr. Mordok."

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816631)

"This is a clear case of a large company making what they want and totally ignoring consumer demand."

This generates a clear case of me giggling like the proverbial schoolgirl when a company I dislike makes a customer-unfriendly decision.

Extra e-hugs for making all those "XP" machines "obsolete". More cheap stuffs for me to load with Linux. :)

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (1)

adona1 (1078711) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816639)

Exactly. I'll be getting my wife a laptop within the next year, and she & I won't get anything with Vista. At the moment, you can still get a few laptops at stores with XP, but when they finally get taken from the market....bam. Lost customer for MS, as I'll probably get her a Macbook or just install Ubuntu.

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (1)

Devin Jeanpierre (1243322) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816711)

You say that Windows going in an entirely new direction is a bad thing, yes? And you say, hey, look at apple, they don't change too much too fast like MS is trying to do! Well, look back a few years, and you'll notice that Mac OSX shares almost nothing with Mac OS9. Look a bit more recently, and you'll also find that Macs shifted processors entirely. Personally, I wish MS would do something more like Mac then-- switch to something UNIX. But if they don't, hey, Vista is a much smaller change from XP than OSX was to OS9. I wouldn't go championing Macs as the bastion of small-upgrades (although they did exceedingly well at maintaining backwards compatibility through various measures).

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (4, Insightful)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816925)

My friend, I think you overlook an evident fact: OSX is actually BETTER and FASTER than what OS9 was.

Now vista, compared to XP.... ill let you finish this one.

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (2, Insightful)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816779)

Apple is making a strong move I feel with Snow Leopard. People like Leopard. They are releasing Leopard, but "better".
Now you are being a little bit naive. Saying that Apple is doing right when Leopard (while completely leaving people running Tiger on their PowerPCs) is right and Microsoft dumping XP is bad is really short signed.

I know a bunch of people that completely refuse to use Leopard. They have the first version MacBooks, where Tiger runs faster than Leopard. They completely hate the visual effects on Leopard.

I'm not sure, but your post sounds like a fanboism (and I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but that's the impression you gave me.)

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (1)

andymadigan (792996) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816931)

Leopard is universal...

Re:Not paying attention to consumer demand (1)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 6 years ago | (#23817023)

Leopard is universal...
Leopard, yes. Snow Leopard, no [wikipedia.org] .

GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista (-1, Troll)

GET THE FACTS! (850779) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816461)

GNAA announces switch to Windows Vista

fellacious (GNAP) Intercourse, PA - Windows Vista appears to finally be taking off, at least within one Fortune 100 company. The GNAA had for the past 13 years been using Red Hat Linux and it's successor, Fedora Core, but growing discontent with the free software operating system forced CTO Jmax to declare on Wednesday that the company was to be switching its entire infrastructure to the new version of Windows, effective immediately. "I'm not going to theatrically claim that I wasn't expecting to have to do this," Jmax said. "This has been coming for quite some time." The GNAA's troubles with Red Hat's Linux system included chronic governance problems, a persistent failure to maintain key repositories, a complex and undocumented submission process which has kept the GNAA's free trolling utilities off the Red Hat-based desktops of thousands of would-be trolls, inability to keep RPM up to date, and a failure to address the problem of Firefox not crashing a entire computer when the user loads Last Measure. "The deal-breaker, though, was when a key Last Measure server remained down for four hours while our entire Intercourse development team tried desperately to bring it up despite not having statically-linked package manager binaries." What had happened was Dikky, visiting from Norway, wanted to play the child pornography mod of Doom 3 on that server- which had to drag several libraries with it. "In addition," said Jmax, "several key software applications used in the GNAA's corporate workflow are proprietary software- which means that they had to be run in an Ubuntu compatibility environment anyway." However, being as those unnamed applications were written in C#.NET, "We expect that our transition to Windows Vista will come off without a hitch."

About Jmax:

The CTO of the GNAA, Jmax also has a seat on Microsoft's board of directors. His resume can be accessed at http://goatse.fr/ [goatse.fr] .

About Windows Vista:

The fastest-growing desktop operating system on the market, Windows Vista combines the legendary security of Windows 98 with the legendary ease of use of those computer interfaces you see in the movies into one ultra-fast, ultra-stable computing platform.

About Red Hat:

A failure of a computer company, Red Hat burns through investor money while giving its products away for free. It is currently under investigation from the SEC for misuse of invested funds, and being sued by the GNAA for breach of contract for sucking more than specified in the GNAA's contract with Red Hat.

About the Linux community:

Trolled.



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Microsoft markets for Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816465)

I want to know how Steve Jobs lined up Microsoft to so effectively to do his marketing. Killing XP's bound to drive many soonn-to-be-former Windows users to the Macintosh. Brilliant.

Doh! (1)

dexomn (147950) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816471)

Oh crap! I thought they were replacing Vista with XP. Disappointment yet again. =(

Or in other words (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816481)

The Linux desktop lifewatch, T minus 2 weeks.

Of course, as all nerds know, anything that dies can come back as a zombie to eat that which is alive. But we're rational people here and could never imagine that. [itbusiness.ca]

Inaccurate ... (5, Informative)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816489)

Dell has already stated that they will continue to install XP [dell.com] if the customer requests it.

Re:Inaccurate ... (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816693)

As have HP/Compaq and Lenovo.

Re:Inaccurate ... (1)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816799)

Dell has already stated that they will continue to install XP if the customer requests it.
... for a price. [engadget.com]

Re:Inaccurate ... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816843)

But if MS isn't supporting it, and even telling Dell they aren't allowed to do it, then is it even legal? Is MS still taking the money for the licenses?

They should not reprieve (0, Flamebait)

oskard (715652) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816495)

Anybody who buys a computer bundled with an OS should probably keep that OS. Vista, though slow as hell, is easier to use and more secure (theoretically). Especially if all you're doing is web browsing and using Microsoft Office.

Those who do not want to use it should be smart enough to install their own distro. XP SP2 CDs are plentiful, like AOL coasters.

And the majority of enthusiasts who want a lean and mean machine, and still wish to run a Microsoft OS, won't need to deal with this bundled nonsense.

Re:They should not reprieve (1)

Dare nMc (468959) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816739)

should be smart enough to install their own distro. XP SP2 CDs are plentiful
yes, but drivers aren't. If you are smart enough to build your own drivers, it'll only cost you $2400 for the MSDN universal subscription (lowest sub to allow driver development.)

Nothing dies in the Torrent (3, Interesting)

mqduck (232646) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816513)

Now all you pirates will have an excuse for downloading your Windows XP disc image.

heh they can't get rid of XP... (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816525)

They have to just repackage XP in a vista box and make some vista desktop theme as the default. Make everyone happy. Either way, I hope they don't extend it. Them doing this will probably make this year "The Year of Linux Mobility".

They have a while until it wil become the choice for desktops. And it won't be "Linux" itself; it will be some windows user-friendly distribution of it.

T minus 2 weeks? (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816527)

Why won't it be "T plus two weeks?" What's wrong with that?

Re:T minus 2 weeks? (2, Informative)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816813)

Because (in our perception at least) time travels forward. T plus 2 weeks would be saying, "It is now time T plus 2 weeks", or 2 weeks past the time in question, rather than 2 weeks until.

Someone check the spot price! (1)

GeneralEmergency (240687) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816529)


I heard a rumor that oil speculators were moving money into XP Home retail box.

Too late. I got mine on Saturday.

And two years from now, if they wont activate, boy 'o boy is Balmer going to get a good chair-throwing!

For those who don't care (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816531)

I'm sure the Pirate Bay will continue to carry Windows XP for a long long time.

Re:For those who don't care (2, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816821)

yup, and they even released versions of windows before Microsoft did

Today our labs discussed WinVista (4, Interesting)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816537)

And the fact that our few boxen with it run like dogs even with dual core high end processors.

Even with the effects turned off it's dog slow.

If they kill the ability for us to buy XP we're going to an all Linux/Unix shop.

Re:Today our labs discussed WinVista (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816687)

And the fact that our few boxen with it run like dogs even with dual core high end processors.

Even with the effects turned off it's dog slow.


That's weird - it works just fine in a VM on my MBP and that's not really beefy hardware.

If they kill the ability for us to buy XP we're going to an all Linux/Unix shop.

Do it!

Re:Today our labs discussed WinVista (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816797)

Got drivers? If you've got Vista ... nope.

Re:Today our labs discussed WinVista (2, Interesting)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816849)

Got drivers? If you've got Vista ... nope.

Oh, wow, yeah, I guess VMWare is probably supported.

Boy, now Windows has worse driver support than Linux? Whodathunk?

Re:Today our labs discussed WinVista (1)

modmans2ndcoming (929661) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816805)

uhh...

the effects help it run better. Not sure if you noticed, but the UI is responsive in vists and I am running an AMD X2 4200+ with 2 gigs of memory and an onboard radeon 1250.

Re:Today our labs discussed WinVista (2, Informative)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816965)

Better?

How is a four minute boot time for a high-end dual core processor laptop "better"?

My son's Mac mini boots, sends email, has open chat, records a video, and shuts down before a WinVista machine finishes booting with the same raw processor power.

Vista is Microsoft's Vietnam (4, Insightful)

Hackerlish (1308763) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816539)

XP is here. It works. It works well. It has drivers. It's fast. Vista has been a complete disaster for Microsoft. It's here, but it doesn't work well, lacks drivers and is slower than molasses. The record 'sales' of Vista that Microsoft has been bragging about is only due to preinstallations, and everyone knows it. I got Vista on a new laptop, loved the pretty colors but within a few months learned it was pure crap, deleted it, installed XP and never looked back. Microsoft: It's time to fall on your sword. Admit that Vista was the disaster it is: Every else already knows that. Sanction the developers that screwed it up so badly, and Fire the bureaucrats who would rather see Microsoft go down the tubes that admit they made a huge mistake with Vista.

Re:Vista is Microsoft's Vietnam (1)

Kneo24 (688412) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816667)

XP ran into a lot of those issues when it came out too.

Don't get me wrong, as a Vista user, I'm not too thrilled with the OS. I do like some things about it, so I continue to use it.

I do agree that Microsoft has the necessary resources to make a more stable and faster running OS. Microsoft doesn't have to look like the bad guy all the time. But for whatever stupid reason, they choose to.

XP has matured to a point where a lot of people really really like it. An XP 2.0 would've been nice.

Re:Vista is Microsoft's Vietnam (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816953)

Id just say dont blame it on the devs. Its the damned Microsoft Marketing Machine what fucks everything up.

Hell, I even remember when they were a software company.

Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (5, Insightful)

wild_quinine (998562) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816553)

There are some things about Vista which are better than XP.

The restructured Users folder, for example. Finally 'My Music' is moved out of the My Documents folder, making backups, once again, possible for basic end users.

The improved desktop rendering, which small matter though it may be, was well overdue for an overhaul.

There are some things which are worse in Vista, and we all know about them.

The copying speed.

The shutdown menu, and the fact that hibernation NEVER works.

Ultimately however, and this is where I intend to get relevant, there is nothing significant enough to recommend a switch from XP to Vista. And that's a statement that few people would argue with, and it's a damning statement. The more you think about about, the worse it gets.

And when you step into the world of Enterprise, and big business, things are even worse. In Enterprise, you really, really don't care about shiny baubles. All you care about is that it works, and it stays working, and it never works any worse than it used to.

Aging though it may be, XPs relevancy is not in decline. Windows Server 2003 does not want for much, in the way of mission critical upgrades, and what it does want for, Windows Server 2008 will not be providing.

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816729)

Finally 'My Music' is moved out of the My Documents folder, making backups, once again, possible for basic end users.
LOL.
WTF?
SRSLY?
Their default folder setup is total shit.

"I need to play a song. Hmmm, where is it?"
c:\Users\Me\Documents and Settings\My Music (or something stupid like that)

How about
c:\Music?
c:\Documents?
c:\Pictures?

L2make folders.

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816831)

In Enterprise, you really, really don't care about shiny baubles
Inaccurate. C?Os dig shiny, useless stuff.

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (1)

wild_quinine (998562) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816871)

In Enterprise, you really, really don't care about shiny baubles
Inaccurate. C?Os dig shiny, useless stuff.
Touche. But luckily, that's what Windows Mobile is for.

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (4, Insightful)

FoolsGold (1139759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816865)

The copying speed.

The shutdown menu, and the fact that hibernation NEVER works.

The speed of copying/moving files was fixed in SP1. Of course it shouldn't have been so bad to begin with, but still, fixed.

Hibernation works fine for me. It doesn't work in Ubuntu however (at least with the most recent kernel), and a lot of people have complained about it.

My point? Everyone's experiences are different. Is it wrong for me to actually like Vista?

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (1)

wild_quinine (998562) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816897)

Is it wrong for me to actually like Vista?
No, but if you were still on XP would you really make the effort?

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (1)

FoolsGold (1139759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816921)

No, but if you were still on XP would you really make the effort?

Probably not. Not compelling enough for the money.

Re:Why move? Because you have to, that's why. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816875)

> The restructured Users folder, for example. Finally 'My Music' is moved out of the My Documents folder, making backups, once again, possible for basic end users.

Hogwash. What would make "backups once again possible for basic end users" would be
to not choke a copy operation every time a stupid little speedbump stopping the whole
thing. Transparent spanning of media when necessary would also be handy.

Music is puny anymore.

Mayan Calender (5, Funny)

retech (1228598) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816617)

This was foretold on the ancient Mayan Calender.

Support deadline? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816625)

Not exactly trolling...

Is there a deadline to downloading patches for XP, or reinstalling XP?

By the way, how's corporate deployment of Vista? (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816755)

What I mean is, Vista seems a pain in the butt for mass deployment or reinstallations. I can easily imagine a few sysadmins going nuts and burned out over the Vista activation nightmares. Sysadmin burnouts and consequent paid sick leave should definitely figure in the TCO (Microsoft loves the "TCO" abbreviation) of Vista.

Bill Gates wakes up screaming..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816789)

in a TV style reboot Bill Gates wakes from a nightmare to find Vista was all part of some fevered dream. XP is still selling well and Apple's last two OSs have been a disaster and everyone doesn't want to upgrade. XP has been updated to support both 32 bit and 64 bit and also supports Direct X-10 which has become the new standard for gaming. The latest XP release also removes all caps on ram so motherboard makers are building boards that support 16gig of ram per CPU and they can't wait for 8gig chips so they can offer 32gig of ram. Rumor has it XP 2010 will support a staggering 128 bit architecture.

The consumers wake up screaming only to find it wasn't all a nightmare. XP is being phased out and the Mac releases have been a big hit.

Will XP OEM version still be for sale? (1)

zonky (1153039) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816855)

Anyone know?

XP+ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816881)

Microsoft made a big mistake: they made a good product.

They should sell XP+ or something which continues support for years and has faster search, (why can I search the entire internet 1000x faster than my PC?).

I'd pay $100 for that.

Use this to push for your own choice of upgrades (2, Interesting)

bigskank (748551) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816885)

Like many on here, I support computers for family, friends, etc... I have flatly told people that I will do nothing on their computers if they run vista. I've only used Vista for a few days, and the experience of using it myself and attempting to work with it on other people's computers has been so unpleasant that I won't do anything for it.

Thus, I'm basically using MS's decision to quit XP to push OS upgrades of my own choosing. People can either stick with XP - which I'm more than happy to support - or, if they want to upgrade to something new, I suggest they install Ubuntu - which I have also recently started using and will support for them. I have had several people make that switch and find the experience palatable. The point is that, at least for the home user, those of us who are unhappy with Microsoft's decision at least have a chance to not only vote with our wallets, but also bring others along for the ride.

Time to update to Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23816933)

Time to update to Ubuntu. Or any other human-friendly Linux OS!

Abandonware? (3, Interesting)

Now15 (9715) | more than 6 years ago | (#23816975)

So if you won't be able to buy a new copy of XP any more, how long until one could reasonably consider it abandonware?
If I needed to build a new PC tomorrow, I'll want to install XP on it. But if Microsoft won't sell it to me, what can I do about it?
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