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Wiretapping Law Sparks Rage In Sweden

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the taking-it-to-the-streets dept.

Privacy 344

castrox writes "This Wednesday at 9am the Swedish Parliament is voting on a new wiretapping law which would enable the civil agency (FRA — Defense Radio Agency) to snoop on all traffic crossing the Swedish border. E-mail, fax, telephone, web, SMS, etc. 24/7 without any requirement to obtain a court order. Furthermore, by law, the sitting Government will be able to instruct the wiretapping agency on what to look for. It also nullifies anonymity for press tipsters and whistleblowers. Many agencies within Sweden have weighed in on this, with very hefty criticism, e.g. SÄPO (akin to FBI in the US), the Justice Department, ex-employees of FRA, and more. Nonetheless, the ruling party block is supposedly pressuring its members to vote 'yes' to this new proposed law with threats to unseat any dissidents. After massive activity on blogs by ordinary citizens, and street protests, the story has finally been picked up by major Swedish news sources. The result will likely be huge street protests on Wednesday. People have been completely surprised since this law has not gotten any media uptake until very late in the game."

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Where's the outrage in the rest of the free world? (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819107)

Jeez... if only Americans would have done the same thing in response to this guys [utah.edu] efforts in his administration to do the same thing.

Seriously, where has the outrage been in the US? Did not George Orwell warn us? The number of Constitutional rights we've lost under the current administration is truly stunning and if we do not stand up and resist, this sort of thing will continue to spread throughout the world as it has in the UK, Japan, the US and many other European countries.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (4, Insightful)

armanox (826486) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819141)

Obvious answer - too many Americans believe that the government knows best.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819157)

Father does know best. And, Mommy too when the Dems are in power.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1, Interesting)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819565)

Actually, it is more like not enough people think the government is evil.

And with a few exceptions, they aren't. Thats why almost everyone railing against the government seems to come off as or is viewed by the public as a kook or some sort of nutbag.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (5, Funny)

Cathoderoytube (1088737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819151)

I'm getting sick and tired of people constantly referencing George Orwell whenever some government institutes a wire tapping law. There wasn't any bloody wire tapping in Animal Farm!

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

shermo (1284310) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819161)

I think most slashdotters are more paranoid about governmental control than communism currently

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (4, Insightful)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819217)

Funny thing, I thought Animal Farm was about democracy failing due to an uneducated public.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819263)

I think you need to bear in mind that Orwell wrote books other than Animal farm. Such as 1984 [wikipedia.org] , which featured a variant on the "panopticon", in the form of electronic surveillance.

It's an important book to read - it's on the school curriculum in most western nations. The USSR banned it, and people in the USA have tried to (w.t.f.???).

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (3, Insightful)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819379)

"It's an important book to read - it's on the school curriculum in most western nations."

Yes, I first read 1984 at high school circa 1974. I think you need to bear in mind that the OP looks like an attempt at insightfull humour.

OT Trivia: In the appendix of my old copy it says (paraphrase) "C is a precise language used only by technocrats".

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

aproposofwhat (1019098) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819427)

Yes, I first read 1984 at high school circa 1974.

So did I - shall we tell them all to get off our lawns?

Slightly off-topic - David Davis' stand against the Brown/Bliar junta hasn't had the coverage I'd expect on /. - is it because he's a Tory?

I'm a libertarian/anarchist (after reading Homage to Catalunya and The Road to Wigan Pier in my youth) myself, but I really appreciate a politician who's prepared to stand up against the creeping advance of the surveillance society.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (2, Funny)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819679)

I'm not an anarchist but my lawn is booby trapped. :o

Not anymore. (2, Interesting)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819441)

Graduated high school in '01.

brave new world was on the curriculum, but not examined nearly as thoroughly as king lear or the scarlet letter.

1984 was not on the curriculum.

any coincidence that my state was a heavy red state, and the republicans had control of congress for 3 years before I even entered high school?

Re:Not anymore. (2, Informative)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819591)

Nope, no coincidence at all. You see, republicans in congress have no say in the course material your school decides to cover whatsoever at all. The federal government has no say whatso ever at all in the course material a state elects to cover. At best they can withhold some sort of funding but all federal funding is spent before it hits the schools in the first place so they would have to create funding for some course material then withhold it. It would be like not driving a new car because someone didn't buy you a new car.

Of course your posing of this question does say a lot about why the republicans lost control of congress though.

Re:Not anymore. (3, Insightful)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819637)

that assertion is like saying the federal government has no say on the minimum drinking age, but we all know that to be false.

Re:Not anymore. (1)

maglor_83 (856254) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819681)

That would mean that it WAS a coincidence.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819359)

communism is the ultimate form of governmental control, the ideology that spawned the phrase "from each according to ability to those according to need " is the same one that requires that same ever-present government that many slashdotters including myself do not turst all that much.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (5, Insightful)

Phydeaux314 (866996) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819463)

*sigh* No, communism - the economic theory - has absolutely nothing to do with ultimate government control. In a communist system, there is no government. Perhaps you're thinking of socialism? Or Marxism-Leninism?

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (5, Insightful)

mOdQuArK! (87332) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819525)

Actually, the final form of communism is about as far from centralized government control you can get. The big problem occurs because of Phase 2 when transitioning from a capitalist/fascist society to the utopian form of communism:

Phase 1) you supposedly have to instigate a revolution to get control of the society away from the rich fatcats,

Phase 2) there is a totalitarian phase where the revolutionaries assume absolute control in order to reconstruct all of the social & economic institutions to support the new communistic structures (while crushing any attempts by the fatcats to reestablish THEIR institutions), and

Phase 3) eventually everyone lives in little communes caring for each other (hence the name communism) and the political power is supposed to flow UP from those little communes.

I have forgotten just about all of the details, but this was the gist of what I remember reading (a long, long time ago) about Marxist Communism.

Needless to say, there hasn't been a major attempt at communism yet that made it past step #2. Somehow, the revolutionaries always seem to get stuck at that phase stamping out just one more discontented "enemy of the State" before they're quite ready to give up power.

The cynical might even suspect that, at least in some cases, the revolutionaries never actually intended to get past step #2, and instead were just using the "workers unite!" propaganda to build their revolutionary armies from the poor, desperate and gullible.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

Ex-MislTech (557759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819751)

So far all forms of government communism or otherwise are
always screwed up by those in power.

So no matter what you hope or plan for you always get some
bastardized corrupt version.

In other words your better off with no huge Ultra National
organization regulating every minute detail down to toilet
flow rates.

We get the same failed systems we have seen for Millenia.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (2, Informative)

Ex-MislTech (557759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819717)

I think most slashdotters are more paranoid about governmental control than communism currently

Communism is a form of government....

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (3, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819163)

Obviously you've never had soylent greens, nor have you read 1984. Good job, move on, enjoy your perceived to be excellent life. The rest of us will keep fighting for what barely remains of most rights.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (4, Funny)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819261)

"Obviously you've never had soylent greens..."

What sort of meat comes with the greens?

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

aproposofwhat (1019098) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819437)

You don't need meat, because Soylent Green is People

:P

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819445)

Soylent red? Or maybe yellow? Or soylent pink?

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

smorken (990019) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819477)

Tonight it's a delectable primate sausage, or alternatively spam, spam, spam or spam*.
*note SPAM, as it is referred to here, stands for Spicy Piece of A Man

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819361)

Now I welcome my All knowing, All seeing, (you have absolutely no rights what so ever) Overlord. All hail the hypno-toad.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (2, Interesting)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819159)

The problem is that a lot of this nonsense was supported on both sides to some extent, the patriot act for example was voted for by both sides with only a few [you can count them on one hand] voting against it. Which is an important point to be made, it isn't just the administration alone that has condoned this, after all these could not have been passed without democrat support to some extent especially now with the democrat majority. it's a severe problem with our government that extends far beyond bush.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (5, Insightful)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819183)

If you tap peoples' phones for good reasons, pretty soon you'll be tapping them for bad ones.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (2)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819243)

I know, that's generally why I am opposed to the Patriot act well acts really, the second draft was altered after all- and a host of other blatently unconstitutional bills that were passed anyway, it's just rather disturbing to see the collusion that was required for all of this to be passed in the first place.

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (3, Interesting)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819389)

If you tap peoples' phones for good reasons, pretty soon you'll be tapping them for bad ones.

What do you mean by "soon"? J. Edgar Hoover (FBI) and Nixon are known to have abused domestic spying capabilities for political and dogmatic reasons. John Lennon was spied on, for example, merely for political statements not too different from the lyrics of songs like "Imagine".
                   

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819557)

"To find out if she has a boyfriend" is one of the good reasons to tap her phone, right?

Congressmen don't read bills. (2)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819501)

congressmen no longer read bills.

Further, since 1998 the media has had an agenda, and has become a close bed fellow with legislators.

they trade favors, and have obviously developed a strict code of conduct to cover for one another's acts.

I see no reason why the current media wouldn't help the republican administration by threatening blitzes against those who refused to vote for the act.

Frankly, this won't stop until every media company is broken into 8 or more smaller companies, and all current officers are legally forbidden from practicing business in the sector.

Re:Congressmen don't read bills. (2, Insightful)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819541)

"Further, since 1898 the media has had an agenda, and has become a close bed fellow with legislators."

There, fixed that for you.

"You supply the story -- I'll supply the war!"

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (5, Insightful)

Aeternitas827 (1256210) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819205)

The US has long been resigned to give up freedoms gradually to 'ensure their security', but the end result is nowhere near worth the cost. Free thought has slowly been taken from us as a direct result of our willingness to sacrifice for no apparent reason; the current administration has really done nothing to be forthcoming with what is really going on, and we're on the way to being screwed as a result.

And this bit of legislation, whether we here in the States realise it or not, has much broader implications than just the privacy of Swedes being impeded; as I understand the article, any communications that hit Sweden are subject to monitoring; and as the article doesn't cite whether or not this requires the Originator or Terminator of a given communication be physically present in Sweden, this could include US-based items that pass through a network element of some sort that IS Swedish. And there's nothing to say that there won't be information sharing with governments of other countries, including ours, to implicate our citizens of crimes (where there are none being planned, let alone committed) on the basis of nothing but the content of a phone call or email that happened to cross through or end in Sweden. And it is foreseeable that the United States, in order to circumvent what discord there is domestically, may use that fact to continue the abuses that are already occurring, and in a way that may not be open to much challenge. All in all, this shouldn't be an outrage just for Swedes, but for anyone who would prefer that not everything they do be subject to some form of monitoring that is declared legal by some manner of court in the world.

2 facts (5, Informative)

castrox (630511) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819357)

Here are two facts: 1) Google already said they will not place any servers in Sweden, in case the law goes through. 2) Sweden's prime minister in conjunction with the defense minister fairly recently (no exact estimate) signed a treaty with the United States of America with the express purpose of sharing information obtained with wiretapping. Sweden's and the U.S. systems will be "integrated" and experience shared.

Ergo: big business have already identified this threat and we've already established a nice contract with the U.S. Telia, the largest ISP in Sweden, moved mail servers to Finland because their Finnish customers were getting worried.

I wish I had modpoints for P and GP (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819385)

I wish I had mod points for parent and GP

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819639)

Actually you've lost no constitutional rights at all. They're all still there on paper. They're just re-interpreted a different way now, admittedly nothing like the way they were intended to be. This is what you get for letting legal folk squirm about the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law

Re:Where's the outrage in the rest of the free wor (1)

Ex-MislTech (557759) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819705)

The New World Order as mentioned by Bush Sr. in a speech
to the whole world.

Old news, and most ppl are too busy watching sports, TV,
racing, or some other distraction to pay it any mind.

We warned, but most ppl said they were conspiracy nuts.

The NAFTA super highway made them think otherwise.

The good part is yet to come when we all get RFID tags.

Will start out on the outside of the body, and end up on the inside.

It will happen slowly, because if you stick the frog in warm water
and slow raise the temperature it just dies before it knows
it is being slow cooked.

Have Fun !

what about encryption? (1, Insightful)

Max_W (812974) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819167)

There are several applications available, like: GPG, ArCrypt, RAR, which provide free encryption to people.

Or can they snoop encrypted messages too?

Re:what about encryption? (3, Informative)

Max_W (812974) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819185)

Here are the links: http://www.gnupg.org/ [gnupg.org] http://www.axantum.com/AxCrypt/ [axantum.com] http://www.rarsoft.com/ [rarsoft.com]

Re:what about encryption? (-1, Flamebait)

Aeternitas827 (1256210) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819231)

The problem that would come up with that, is reverse-engineering; the encryption methods of publicly available software would be fairly easy, given only time.

In short, to answer your question, yes, the encrypted messages, etc, would be readable.

Unless everyone would like to send their emails hashed through a uniquely keyed algorithm. I'd prefer not to have to do that.

Re:what about encryption? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819267)

You don't know how this encryption works, do you?

Re:what about encryption? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819285)

I don't think you understand how general encryption methods work if you think that's the case.

Re:what about encryption? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819291)

huh? Shouldn't the algorithm be public and the key to be the only secret part?

Re:what about encryption? (3, Informative)

debatem1 (1087307) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819423)

Modern cryptosystems do not rely on security by obscurity. They rely on the intractability of certain classes of math problems, in particular prime factorization and discovering discrete logarithms, or on the presumed impossibility of reversing certain keyed permutations without knowledge of the key, such as feistel networks. If you're interested, Wikipedia has very extensive articles on all of these concepts, and there are a number of good books that can be had for the price of half an hour's work.

Re:what about encryption? (1)

aproposofwhat (1019098) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819467)

To (mis-)quote 'Not the Nine O'Clock News' (the Swedish Chemist Sketch) - Ball, or aerosol?

You, sir, are an aerosol.

Re:what about encryption? (3, Insightful)

NoobixCube (1133473) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819223)

I'm sure Sweden, if this wiretapping law makes it through, will also pass a law making evasion of the law a felony. That way the people watching you don't even need to know anything about what they're doing, so you can fill the internal surveillance organisation with irreplaceable idiots, just like every other government department in the world.

Re:what about encryption? (1)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819271)

Let's say that I send an encrypted file from somewhere in the US to Moscow, and it's routed through Sweden. Presuming that they bother to look at packets neither originating nor directed to anyplace under their authority, what could they do about it other than refuse to send the packets on? And, if they do, the Internet will just treat it as an outage and find another route that works.

They would.. (2, Interesting)

castrox (630511) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819399)

They would just say, "Hey Bill [in the U.S.]... did you get that? We have him clearly visible now. Oh, AES is it? You need help with the brute force? Sure thing."

Sweden reports to the U.S. and vice versa. This is fact. I don't think they'd cut you off transmitting. In any case they would make it easier for you in order to get you to talk more and contact the rest of your terrorist buddies in the good old Soviet.

Re:They would.. (1)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819485)

I see. Then my best bet would be to send several hundred meg of random junk and let the work their little tails off trying to decrypt it?

Re:They would.. (1)

mOdQuArK! (87332) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819569)

Unless you're talking brute force as in "rubber-hose decryption", you'd have to practically have the omniscience of God to decrypt a sufficient bit-sized AES encryption through "brute force" decryption.

If they have broken AES (or know of a weakness in the particular implementation), or have captured the encryption key through snooping of some sort, then that doesn't qualify as "brute force".

The fact that you think that algorithms like AES can be broken easily through brute force shows how little you understand of the nature of encryption.

Re:what about encryption? (1)

debatem1 (1087307) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819433)

Also presuming that they could tell where and to whom a packet was directed...

Re:what about encryption? (1)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819579)

The IP headers will tell you that.

Re:what about encryption? (3, Insightful)

debatem1 (1087307) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819455)

If the technology exists to eavesdrop on a properly encrypted conversation we have bigger problems than some silly Swedes.

What's wrong with our governments? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819175)

Lately, it seems that various governments (the US, UK, Sweden, et al.) are passing laws to take away freedoms from their people. What happened to "by the people, for the people"? Oh yeah, I remember. It is now "By the corporations, for the corporations".
This worldwide trend towards Nineteen Eighty-Four authoritarian governments is very disturbing. It also shows the apathy of the general public towards their governments. This is what happens when your attention span is devoted to Paris Hilton and Miley Sirus, folks.

P.S. Would the Slashdot equivalent of Paris Hilton be Jeri Ryan?

Re:Slashdot equivalent (1)

Respawner (607254) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819199)

microsoft, everybody loves to hate them

Re:What's wrong with our governments? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819729)

shows the apathy of the general public
Note that residential areas of the USA are now being sprayed with apathy-inducing chemicals by the government, under the cover of spraying against bugs. I wish this were some paranoid conspiracy theory from weekly world news or something, that I was joking. But it's really happening.

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/06/should-governme.html [wired.com]

What Europe needs is another fascist. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819179)

What Europe needs is another fascist. You know, one who can "get things done" without opposition.

Re:What Europe needs is another fascist. (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819207)

Oh, please. Don't joke like this. It scares me. We have got enough of them still lurking around. Not a theme for light joking.

Re:What Europe needs is another fascist. (3, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819483)

What Europe needs is another fascist. You know, one who can "get things done" without opposition.

I know of two men who will be available for such a position on January 20th, 2009. Their resume in this subject area is quite impressive. That is if you are not selective about grammar by one of them.
     

Stuck in neutral (0, Offtopic)

Cur8or (1220818) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819181)

Nazi's = Neutal Swiss Email tapping = Nazi Swiss. Where did the Swiss' neutrality go now?

Re:Stuck in neutral (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819233)

You realize that this article is about Sweden, right?

Brain stuck in neutral (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819307)

TFA is about SWEDEN, home of the hot HRH Princess Madeleine [chefelf.com] , not SWITZERLAND, home of this [suspendedfromebay.com] , which is delicious when hot, particularly with wine and spices as a dip for bread, but very different.

This post brought to you by someone from Australia which happens to be nowhere near Europe.

Re:Brain stuck in neutral (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819325)

I'm from NZ, and it's nowhere near australia!

Re:Stuck in neutral (1)

Starburnt (860851) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819311)

"Swiss" refers to Swaziland, not Sweden, you moron.

Beans (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819191)

So I ate a ton of beans. Then my stomach rumbled. So I let out this huge nasty fart, the kind of nasty horrible fart that feels hot as it exits your anus. Only I got a huuuuge surprise. This was no ordinary fart. This was a shart! Sure enough, I pulled down my pants to find that there was a big nasty liquid-shit stain in my draws. I then realized that sometimes it pays to fart with caution.

I don't get it.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819301)

Why are governments all over the world still taking things so slowly? By now, I'd have expected at least several 1st world countries to be 100% police state. Tapping, tracking, and using every tidbit of information regarding citizens is such old news. We'd have less to discuss if we talked about the countries that are NOT taking this road.

Personally, I've given up caring about what governments do. Until the general population is ready to literally rip their government down, nothing is going to change. Somebody should really start by assassinating a few key politicians and corporate lobbyists. (Hrm, I wonder if a sentence like that is enough to land a person in Guantanamo these days).

The responses of some of these politicians.... (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819309)

These politicians have amazing gaul and talent for understatement.

100,000 hits a day since june 6th on the main blog covering the opposition, and this is the quote from one of the politicians.

Despite the worries expressed by those who have written to him, Widman, who also sits on the Riksdagâ(TM)s Committee on Defence, said it was âoevery unlikelyâ that he would change his position.

âoeI am going to vote yes,â he said.

Finland (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819313)

Word on the street is that laws to do kind of the same thing are being run through the Finnish government, without much visibility or discussion, backed and sponsored by various multinational corporations.

Big deal (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819331)

All this does is make legal what they ALREADY DO! Ask people who work in those agencies, they stated this off the record of course already.

Wont change a thing.

Re:Big deal (2, Interesting)

Meneth (872868) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819647)

It is a big deal, because without this law, we can take the current criminal wiretappers to court and make them stop.

Bit confused (3, Interesting)

Caine (784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819369)

I'm a bit confused where all this "never mentioned by the major media previously" is coming from. There's been several articles, editorials and other mentions in the newspaper since the law was introduced. It just seems that people didn't really care enough to notice until now.

Re:Bit confused (4, Insightful)

castrox (630511) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819419)

Small bits and pieces my friend. Mostly curious articles blowing in the wind. Nothing serious. We get mad proposals every once in a while - that's no reason to think they'd go through. This one, however, all of a sudden has broad support in the Government and parties in the Parliament - opposite to what anybody sane would think.

Also, people are slow - they reject it until it's in their faces and they are forced to act. Most people think that spying on the enemies is a good thing, but they never realized that they themselves, and their neighbors, would be wiretapped. That's why the uproar.

Protest site (4, Informative)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819403)

One main protest site here [stoppafralagen.nu] , there is also a Google translation here [google.com] . Oddly, the Google translation has problems with common words such as "integritetsintrång", "utredningsbegäran" and "åsiktsregistrering". :P

Re:Protest site (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819531)

How is parent informative?

Tell us what those words mean!

Re:Protest site (4, Informative)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819617)

>Tell us what those words mean!

integritetsintrång = invasion of integrity
utredningsbegäran = request for official enquiry
åsiktsregistrering = (political) view tracking

Ask for the "integritetsintrång" pen holder at your local IKEA!

Jokes aside, I find it interesting that it is the conservative and liberal parties who push for this law (though they are the ones who around elections claim they campaign for freedom and individuality).

Re:Protest site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819689)

I'll give it a shot but my problem is more in the other direction (and the translations are more direct ones than the correct ones, hope they make some sort of sense):

"integritetsintrång" =~ integrity intrusion
"utredningsbegÃran" =~ demand to get access to the inquiry/investigation
"Ã¥siktsregistrering" =~ registration of political views

And damn you /. for lacking utf-8

Re:Protest site (1)

dr80085 (1270590) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819605)

"integritetsintrång"
"invasion of privacy"

"utredningsbegäran"
"investigation request"

"åsiktsregistrering"
"personal opinion database"

This is not an isolated incident (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819405)

Anti-freedom laws are springing up left and right, and invariably they're pushed through in some cloak-and-dagger midnight sessions, often either completing the bare minimum of readings or even trying to get away with simply ignoring the necessary process. Pressure is being used to browbeat MPs of the ruling parties into submission (where necessary) while every trick in the book is being used to avoid informing the opposition (and population) earlier than absolutely necessary.

Makes you think. I mean, those people are supposedly being voted into office by the majority, supposedly working for their interests. Why the hush-hush-rush-rush? If you're doing what your voters wanted, why bother trying not to inform the press? After all, what you do must be in the interest of the majority, so why care about the outcry of some naysayers and professional paranoiacs?

You're doing what your voters want, right? Right?

Re:This is not an isolated incident (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819519)

The media has had an agenda since the mid 90's. They bias their reporting and deliberately ignore many issues if coverage will jeopardize their interests.

Re:This is not an isolated incident (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819567)

Then it's even more interesting that there is little to no coverage about those topics. I mean, you don't even have to omit certain aspects or blow it out of proportion to make it into a horrible nightmare scenario.

Re:This is not an isolated incident (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819603)

media interests + pirate bay + US = not in media's interest to report "information sharing" which would allow them to extend civil and possibly criminal actions in the US and Sweden.

Re:This is not an isolated incident (2, Interesting)

Lazy Jones (8403) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819529)

Makes you think. I mean, those people are supposedly being voted into office by the majority, supposedly working for their interests. Why the hush-hush-rush-rush?

Conspiracy theory: certain agencies are bribing or otherwise pressurizing officials in many countries to introduce this kind of legislation, as it gives them indirect access to wanted information (most countries pass on sensitive information about their own citizens to the CIA etc. more liberally than they could use it in court themselves). If lobbyists can get ridiculous (anti-piracy) laws passed, why shouldn't "law enforcement" agencies? Corruption is the biggest problem in european politics, so it's a rather straightforward thing to do...

Re:This is not an isolated incident (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819597)

You know, life gets scary when conspiracy theories start making sense...

But why do you think certain companies would take the detour and bribing officials in the US to bribe officials in Europe? It's easier to bribe just everyone directly. Cuts the middle man, saves money and avoids unwanted Chinese whisper effects.

Internet == Civil Rights Movement (4, Insightful)

copponex (13876) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819719)

This may seem counter-intuitive at first, and believe me I don't compare any current people to MLK or any nonsense like that. However, like the civil rights movement, the internet offers a place for regular people to exchange information and ideas (at very little cost and in a semi-anonymous fashion). Websites like Wikileaks frankly scare the shit out of governments. The masses are, and always will be, the #1 enemy of the state.

Basically, as the internet grows more adept at connecting disparate people, the less likely we'll be willing to fight wars. I can go right now and become friends or at least become familiar with someone from China, Iran, Egypt, and even Iraq. Wars, especially for America, are extremely profitable for the propertied classes. It's the reason businesses like Standard Oil sold to the Nazis and the British in WWII. It's the reason IBM had no qualms helping the Germans index Jews for extermination. Now these same companies lobby to congresspeople on a daily basis, and you and I will probably never meet our representatives in person.

And people wonder why the needs of the people aren't being met. It's really quite simple - the people don't matter to most governments. They are the enemy. The people at the top -- you know, the 1 percent of people who own nearly half of all investments in the stock market -- really like things the way they are.

Complacency is frightening (2)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819421)

The complacency of American citizens is disturbing. It's almost comparable to Germans "going with the flow" in the 1930's. Privacy, judicial review, and the right to a fair and open trial are being sucked down the drain with only a mild whimper.
         

Re:Complacency is frightening (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819713)

the outcry is actually immense. look at the kinds of responses you see to articles like this in slashdot. general reply count to stories like this is in the 500's, 5 times the average.

The reality is the media benefits from these new policies... no pesky freedom of speech, privacy, or due process to get in the way of their anti-piracy agendas.

Re:Complacency is frightening (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819725)

I don't think slashdotters are a representative example of the general population. Slashdotters tend to distrust government and large organizations more, perhaps because we see the side-effects of their fuckups and mayhem at a more detailed and technical level.
     

This law changes nothing.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819443)

Sweden has been snooping around peoples packets for years. This law just makes it legal... and probably admissible in court.

Quick way to make for less technology companies (4, Insightful)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819465)

the largest ISP in Sweden, moved mail servers to Finland because their Finnish customers were getting worried.
I would be too. Not sure if the Swedish folks really understand how much this sort of law will effect technology growth in their country detrimentally.

Re:Quick way to make for less technology companies (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819555)

Does this make any difference?

The Govt. would still have their monitoring kit on the exit pipes, so they'll just duplicate the traffic en route and analyse it instead of on some ISP's server.

The way out is Tor.

Re:Quick way to make for less technology companies (1)

Anzya (464805) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819743)

Not sure if Finland has made any changes to their system but if I recall correctly more or less ALL their trafic goes through Sweden anyway. So at any time they send mail to someone outside Finland it will be allmost guaranteed to get stuck in the Swedish wiretapping...
But hey, as long as we can catch all those nonexistant terrorists in Sweden right?
Terrorists doesn't know anything about encryption right?
Wouldn't supprise me if a simple ceasar crypt or L337 speak would be able to trick those systems.
L3tS p14nt teh b0mb! *sigh*

Where next? (1)

xbytor (215790) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819493)

Sweden was high on my list of 'free' countries to which I could immigrate for a number of good reasons. If this gets made into a law, I'll have to find a new candidate for the top of my list.

Any suggestions?

I for one... (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819505)

...welcome our new evil...[gumfff]

Politicians... (1, Informative)

ciryon (218518) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819623)

It should be noted that it is unknown if the ruling block is pressuring its members of parliament. The official statements are "everyone is free to vote after their conviction". Also, the law was actually first introduced by the previous ruling block (the lefties). That said, it's absolutely moronic and it seems like the parliament members are the only ones in Sweden in favour of the law. What the hell do we need politicians for again?

Rediculous. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23819635)

This was reported a week ago on torrentfreak and the swedish media is running this just now? It's sad that I, an American, knew about this before the average swede. Fucking media.

Shit, (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819649)

There goes Scandinavia, the last civilized big brother-free region of the earth. Oh, well, there's always Antarctica.

Who's comin' with me?!

Re:Shit, (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819733)

canada?

granted the threat is there, but they seem to have beaten them back every time so far, and the kicker is Geist and his ilk are frequently brought in as guest columnists for the main stream press there.

STOPPA FRA (1)

sporkme (983186) | more than 6 years ago | (#23819753)

Ugh, outside the flamewar:
I have seen the banner on thepiratebay.org [thepiratebay.org] while searching for, uh, legal downloads for uh, research. The banner link leads here: STOPPA FRA [stoppafralagen.nu] .
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