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$50 to Get XP On a New Dell

CmdrTaco posted more than 6 years ago | from the paying-more-for-less dept.

Operating Systems 616

CWmike writes "Dell will charge customers up to $50 for factory-installed Windows XP on some PCs after Wednesday, according to the company's Web site. Buyers of the low-priced Vostro line of desktops and notebooks will pay $20 to $50 more for Windows XP Professional installed as a 'downgrade' from Windows Vista Business or Vista Ultimate than they would for Vista only."

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It's like divorce (5, Funny)

Trigun (685027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840329)

it's expensive, but it's worth it.

Re:It's like divorce (5, Insightful)

memojuez (910304) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840479)

It's a pretty sad statement about a product when people are willing to pay MORE not to use it.


Forget about Apple Mr. Gates, you're doing a good job of self-destructing.

Re:It's like divorce (5, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840765)

It's only sad because MS spent 5+ years working on Vista, and now people want to pay not to use it. It's not sad in the more general sense, that people want to pay more to use a better product.

Re:It's like divorce (5, Interesting)

Jhon (241832) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840941)

I would have paid $50 to have Win98 installed over ME a number of years ago. It's somehow comforting to know that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re:It's like divorce (5, Funny)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840501)

Yeah, and the reason for the divorce?

She's gaining weight and trying to control you.

Re:It's like divorce (4, Funny)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840733)

I want the Operating System I married 5-7 years ago!

Re:It's like divorce (3, Interesting)

frosty_tsm (933163) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840737)

Or she's cheating [snarfed.org] on you.

It's Twitter, Slashdot Duped Again! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840581)

This story is a cut and paste job from Twitter's journal [slashdot.org] , made within two hours of the twitter post. CWMike must be another Twitter sock puppet and this story is just more hysterical FUD about Vista [slashdot.org] .

Re:It's Twitter, Slashdot Duped Again! (1)

Mactrope (1256892) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840795)

Ugh, not this again. Cue dedazo, willyhill and all the other trolls.

Re:It's Twitter, Slashdot Duped Again! (0, Troll)

Odder (1288958) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840873)

Somehow, the Vista failure log is on topic. I can't put my finger on it. Oh yeah, people paying for the most expensive version of Vista and then another $50 just to avoid Vista. Vista avoidance as a profit center is not what M$ had in mind here.

Re:It's Twitter, Slashdot Duped Again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840943)

I believe I speak for many people when I say: Just shut the fuck up already about Twitter. God DAMN. I didn't know who this dumbshit was until you people started Streisanding the fuck out of him. Now I mod his posts up just to piss you morons off.

Re:It's like divorce (4, Funny)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840839)

And just like divorce, the one you switch to is lighter weight, less nag-y, and easier to use. In this case it is older but it also has more experience.

Re:It's like divorce (2, Insightful)

Trigun (685027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840901)

Plus it doesn't bitch at you every time that you want to do something even remotely dangerous.

It's not a wife, it's a Jewish mother.

Re:It's like divorce (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840897)

let me get this straight???

u have to pay for vista ... though u don't want it, and then pay extra for xp ... but they will only give you the license for xp

wow!!!!

are they out of their f'in minds?

$50 for assurance of less headache ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840339)

count me in.

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840361)

Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (5, Insightful)

KiltedKnight (171132) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840457)

Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?

Why, nothing of course. :)

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840603)

Many people also pay (nothing, of course) for Windows XP, but I was one of those suckers who paid extra for a dell laptop with a legit installation of XP pro because it was a bitch to find ANY laptop which wasn't already loaded with Vista!

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (2, Interesting)

Score Whore (32328) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840909)

Many people also pay (nothing, of course) for Windows XP, but I was one of those suckers who paid extra for a dell laptop with a legit installation of XP pro because it was a bitch to find ANY laptop which wasn't already loaded with Vista!


You are a sucker. I've purchased two copies of Vista. One retail and one with a new laptop. In the license agreement that came with both of them, there is a clause that allows you to use Windows XP instead of Vista. No need to pay extra.

but, but, (1, Troll)

willeyhill (1277478) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840763)

I always thought Windows came free with your computer.

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840919)

I would pay dell the cost of a windows license for Ubuntu only as an incentive for them to offer it across their entire line and boosted support for their ubuntu division.

Depends on what you do with that computer (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840471)

Well, I guess it depends on what you do with that computer. If Ubuntu does the trick for you, more power to you.

On the other hand, while I _am_ writing this on a SuSE 10.0 machine, I wouldn't really want Linux on my gaming rig. I know, Wine, bla, bla, bla. Tried that route some time ago, wasn't worth the effort. Does it even work with most games' copy-protection these days, or do you still need a crack just to run your legitimately purchased game in Wine?

So, well, different tools for different folks.

Re:Depends on what you do with that computer (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840499)

Didn't you hear? There are now 42 games for Linux.

A respectable number (3, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840681)

Didn't you hear? There are now 42 games for Linux.
And once you include all the free-and-Free games in Ubuntu's repository, you have more games than were released for the Atari 7800 (60 titles) [wikipedia.org] and Virtual Boy (22) [wikipedia.org] put together. And no, not all of them are just Tetris clones [pineight.com] either.

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840487)

Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?

That is priceless... I mean, as hmmmm
forget it

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (5, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840631)


Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?

...as much free tech support for it (Ubuntu, or any Linux distro, really) as my friends and relatives can stand.

...time and effort in teaching others (including random strangers) how to use it if they ask.

...time and effort in explaining in detail how I manage to get neat stuff to happen on it (e.g. getting the Windows version of the 3D app Poser to work in OpenSuSE).

...any and all code modifications that I make to customize and/or bugfix any open-source component of it - even if I don't distribute the binaries or project source code myself.


(there are many more ways, but yeah - it's worth paying-back that way, if not in other ways as well).

/P

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ? (1, Insightful)

L33THa0R69 (610556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840757)


Then how much would you pay for Ubuntu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as GNU/Linux supports your hardware?


You mean, how much would you pay for Ubantu, which causes even fewer headaches than Windows XP as long as it doesn't cause any headaches?


More than $50. (-1, Redundant)

ibane (1294214) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840697)

First you have to eat the cost of Vista "business" or "ultimate" then you can pay another $50 to have XP installed on your "economy" laptop. If they offer Ubuntu on the same model it will be at least $200 cheaper. I know which I'd rather have.

It's an upgrade, (4, Funny)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840347)

why else would you pay more.

The XP Tax (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840353)

Well I guess they've got to get people to move to Vista somehow... Too bad for Microsoft it doesn't exactly sell itself.

Re:The XP Tax (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840431)

It all makes sense now. The only way to make the switch to Vista make sense is to make buying XP more expensive. WTF???

Just one more drama in the Saga that is MS reality telvision. Hand me the remote please....

Labor ain't free (3, Insightful)

RingDev (879105) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840625)

The HD's are likely all imaged with a single Vista image. In order to mass market XP, they will likely have to re-tool slightly to continue producing XP imaged drives in addition to Vista imaged drives. It's not much, but it does add to the labor, and while $50 is a bit steep, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the combination of tooling, labor, and licensing adds up to close to that amount.

-Rick

Re:Labor ain't free (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840809)

If you thought uninstalling all the bloatware they put on machines was bad, just imagine how it would be to install it on all those computers! On a more serious note, the one nice thing about OEM Vista installs is that you can just grab any Vista DVD and reinstall over what came with it. You don't have to try and find an OEM CD like you did with XP (since the OEM CD that came with your PC still had all the vendor installed crap on it)

Re:Labor ain't free (3, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840849)

The costs that you spoke of have already been paid for. It's part of the taking Vista on as a new product process. The hardware/factory space etc. required is the same for both Vista and XP. Since OEMs are not producing imaged HDs 24/7, building 2 different but equally supported (in the factory) systems is neither more difficult or more expensive than doing just one. They have to support how many versions of Vista? They supported all those versions of Vista while they were still supporting versions of XP but now the price is increased?

There is far more to this than manufacturing costs.

Re:Labor ain't free (1)

Sun.Jedi (1280674) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840893)

They already have the tools in place to ship XP. It costs them $$ to retool for Vista. Since Vista is a steaming pile of shit, they have to recoup the cost of up-tooling for something nobody wants. Sounds alot like the music industry if you ask me.

Re:The XP Tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840791)

Just goes to show you how broken Vista is. Also, this seems like grounds for another anittrust suit. Would it be possible to file class-action against MS for this bull?

Downgrade? (3, Insightful)

sconeu (64226) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840357)

If it's a "Downgrade", shouldn't it be *CHEAPER*?????

Re:Downgrade? (4, Insightful)

indifferent children (842621) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840397)

XP is smaller, faster, less buggy, and doesn't come encumbered with a ton of DRM crap. How is that a "downgrade"?

Re:Downgrade? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840597)

XP is smaller, faster, less buggy, and doesn't come encumbered with a ton of DRM crap. How is that a "downgrade"?
The box art isn't as nice.

Re:Downgrade? (0, Troll)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840829)

Can you please list all this "DRM crap" that comes with Vista? I'm being serious, I want to know what you think it is.
Because Protected Video Path only gets put into use with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray content.

Re:Downgrade? (5, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840847)

and doesn't come encumbered with a ton of DRM crap

its all relative, isn't it?

compare win2k that had NO activation and you could copy the system disk from one box to another and it would work fine (if the hardware/kernel were compatible).

I am forced to use an acronis (or similar) tool to dupe my system disk. that hurdle should NOT exist but XP sure does like to stop you doing things you need to, at the system level.

not to mention activation, which kept a lot of people OFF xp and made win2k the last 'great' os from MS.

the only useful xp is a corp edition (non activation), sp2, pre-WGA. all others are bolloxed-up. (fwiw, at least SP3 on xp didn't turn on WGA on the corp version I tested it with. so a corp SP2 with SP3 update still seems 'mostly safe' to use).

Re:Downgrade? (1)

Nephilium (684559) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840969)

Actually, I think it was Win2K that first required you to sysprep a machine after copying the drive... (and some quick googling supports it)...

Nephilium

Re:Downgrade? (4, Interesting)

tambo (310170) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840497)

If it's a "Downgrade", shouldn't it be *CHEAPER*?????

It's a "downgrade" only because Microsoft wants to preserve the illusion that Vista is better, and the pricing is set to discourage people from buying it.

But, yes... a significant share of the consumer market, and practically *all* of the informed market, consider XP a vastly improved upgrade [dotnet.org.za] over Vista.

I've been using Microsoft OSes since MS-DOS 3.2 (circa 1988), and I've never been nearly as frustrated, disappointed, and often outraged by an OS as I am with Vista. I've been using it for two months, and it's horrid in many, many aspects.

I have been making a list of irritations that are novel to Vista. Every time I run across some new irritant, I pop open this text file and add a line to it. I am also making a list of Vista features that I have turned off because they are buggy, poorly implemented, resource hogs, unsecure, frustrating to use, etc., etc. They are both very long lists, and they continue to grow.

Re:Downgrade? (1)

ztransform (929641) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840589)

Microsoft stopped innovating on a functional front, and instead put their development effort into licensing and digital restriction technology.

So how could any future operating system from Microsoft be better? It could only be more restrictive.

Re:Downgrade? (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840871)

If you are that frustrated with it, why are you still using it?

Or are these niggles which can be ironed out and you have routed around them?

Call me paranoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840363)

I don't suppose there's any way for Microsoft to sue them?

Re:Call me paranoid (1)

Bomarc (306716) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840987)

No; RTFA. It is part of MS licensing; most anyone can 'downgrade' to an older, lower (better) version of the Win OS.

Wasting money (1, Insightful)

Recovering Hater (833107) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840369)

Look, I know xp is what everyone wants, but it should be obvious that the days are numbered for this OS.

Re:Wasting money (1)

gfxguy (98788) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840489)

I bought XP Pro last year (January 07), and as a "special" got Vista Pro upgrade for "free" (plus $10 shipping and handling), so I went ahead and got it simply because I knew eventually I'd be using it. It's been sitting in my drawer since then.

So the question is, from what I understand, if you turn off all the extras, Vista is not that bad. I don't suppose I can get an unbiased assessment on slashdot, though. Is it really that buggy? More than XP?

Re:Wasting money (5, Informative)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840745)

How bad is Vista? Well that depends. The UAC does break a good amount of software that works just fine on XP.
Also the journal playback doesn't work with the UAC turned on. It was a security issue but it is also how some programs did simple macros and allowed you to create applications that pushed text into other windows apps.
Also the USB system seems to have some bugs in it.
Also the sound system can be really odd at times. Some computers produce really crappy sound if you record at less than 16 bit 22 khz stereo. That shouldn't be an issue for just recording voice.
It does use more disk space and memory than XP.
It is also different and often it seems like it is different not to be better but to just be different.
So as you have put it if you turn off all the extras then it isn't that bad.
But if you turn off all the extras is it any better than XP?
That is what makes Vista so bad. It really is a lot to some pain for little to no gain.
XP works as well as Vista, uses less resources, and everybody knows most of it's quirks and problems. I feel that Vista is a case of not worth it. And what I find shocking is that most of the normal users out there feel the same way.
 

Re:Wasting money (2, Insightful)

The Warlock (701535) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840783)

Vista is not nearly as bad (and for that matter XP is not nearly as good) as the Slashdot echo chamber makes it out to be. We had the same type and level of whining when switching from 2000 to XP, or from 98SE to 2000. Anyone here want to go back to either of those two?

Re:Wasting money (1)

LehiNephi (695428) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840793)

Well, if you turn off all the extras, what's the point of having Vista in the first place?

AFAIK, turning off all the extras may improve the performance to some degree, but it still won't be as good as XP (given the same hardware), and the bloat on your hard drive hasn't diminished at all.

Re:Wasting money (4, Informative)

Rary (566291) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840857)

So the question is, from what I understand, if you turn off all the extras, Vista is not that bad. I don't suppose I can get an unbiased assessment on slashdot, though. Is it really that buggy? More than XP?

There are a handful of people here on Slashdot who actually like Vista and admit it. I'm one of them.

I haven't turned off any of the extras. Regarding the eye candy, they did an awesome job. It's a slick looking user interface. Regarding performance, it runs beautifully on my Acer laptop (1.6 GHz dual core, 2 GB RAM, GeForce Go7300).

The biggest annoyance for me is the automatic horizontal scrolling in the folder pane of Windows Explorer. I absolutely hate it and want to turn it off, but there is no option.

I've only encountered two actual bugs, and they were both extremely minor. One of them I only encountered once, and can't actually remember what it is right now. The other is just a small bug that occurs when you create a new folder and then try to rename it too quickly.

Overall, I'm happy with it.

Re:Wasting money (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840885)

I've been using it since RTM and I haven't really had much of a problem. My hardware (when I first got it) wasn't really high end but it wasn't any slower, even with Aero Glass turned on. You DO have to turn UAC off, though, leaving that on is a no-no. Everything's fine from there.

Re:Wasting money (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840657)

Respectfully, you speak like someone who isn't in business and doesn't have to worry about budgets, productivity, downtime, etc. I've only started my career and my charge-out rate is $125/hr. After paying my salary, my employer makes nearly $90/hr from an hour of my productive time.

Whether you look at from the point of view of clients having to pay us to fix their constant vista related bugs or the productivity my boss would lose if I was offline for even a half hour on a vista related issue, $50 is a bargain.

I've spent 4 hours in the last 3 months fixing issues on my parents computer, including a complete reinstall because the damn thing would not boot up anymore. That's too much. The value of time is something that people vastly underestimate. $50 XP downgrades will pay for itself ten times over.

Re:Wasting money (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840815)

You may think your employer is making $90/hr on you, but you're probably wrong. More than likely, your employer will spend 6 months without making a penny, then clear between 10% and 20% of your billing rate ($12.50 to $25/hr) from that point on. See, while you only make $70k, you don't work for about 20% of the year (vacation, sick, training, reviews, administrative time, and a host of other inefficiencies), in the best years. From the 80% "ideal mark" comes your salary, your G&A costs, your overhead, time your supervisor and others spend training or helping you that's not billable, management, etc. the list of costs is long. That doesn't even touch on the job where you'll spend 20 hours for which the company bid 8 hours of time to complete the work, and it will happen (it always does).

You're correct that fixing a "new" problem with vista isn't worth the cost to your employer if XP works fine, but don't think that the man in the top seat is making $90/hr on you. If you do, you'll think you can make a fortune being a one-man shop and working 20 hours a week. I'd hate to see you go into business with such a skewed perspective.

Re:Wasting money (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840727)

The days are numbered for ALL computer equipment, and most software. XP will be around for quite a few years, so buying it now is not a waste of money. Worrying that you will have to buy another OS in 3 years is like worrying that you will need to buy a new computer in three years... A waste of effort.

Re:Wasting money (0, Troll)

Sun.Jedi (1280674) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840755)

Look, I know xp is what everyone wants, but it should be obvious that the days are numbered for this company.
There. Fixed that.
+5 flaimbate.

Re:Wasting money (2, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840759)

its supported until 2011 or something really crazy like that.

by then, if the world is STILL on MS platforms, well, we have worse things to worry about than xp running out of support..

there's no compelling reason at all to embrace vista. none. xp won't stop working all of a sudden (well, not any more than usual) and its supported via patches for quite a while to go.

after that, its linux, freebsd, mac. MS is losing share every month. I know NO ONE in the corp world who wants vista and even home users are rejecting it.

MS is on borrowed time, at least in terms of their OS.

Re:Wasting money (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840767)

I do hope that this is just a reflection of your sig.

Re:Wasting money (1)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840827)

Only if there's a suitable replacement operating system that actually works.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, Vista just doesn't work. (Yes, I know some people have been able to get it to work for them, but hey, there's always a few lucky people - or maybe they have become numb to reboots, blue screens, slowdowns, reboots, blue screens, slowdo.....

Re:Wasting money (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840889)

Yeah, but support for Windows XP won't end until after Windows 7 is scheduled to come out. So I think that what a lot of people are hoping for is to skip Windows Vista, and maybe, just maybe, MS will learn their lesson, and put out a good product with Windows 7. If Windows 7 is just as bad as Vista, I fully expect most people would be ready to jump ship to Linux. You can't wait 10+ years for a new version of an OS.

Stop blowing stuff out of proportion (1)

Ethan Allison (904983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840371)

All of the business and workstation class machines (OptiPlex, Latitude, Precision) will have downgrade rights for no premium over Vista Business.

Or... (3, Insightful)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840377)

you could just get Ubuntu from Dell. Hell, I'd take one of their DOS machines before buying Vista.

Re:Or... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840799)

You can always Download Ubuntu for free. If it costs the same I say hey get Vista. Keep the Disks install Ubentu and if Vista ever stablizes or becomes snappy then install it on a VM or as duel boot. If you happen to want to play windows based games or check for Windows compatibility of code. However if the license of your software is a religious experience to you. You may want to skip windows for some twisted moral stance. While so much more is happening in the world that makes a stance on how software is license seem like a no show.

Wow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840395)

Wow, this is so important. I'm glad now I know about blah blah blah operating systems on X computers. I'll probably spend the rest of my day thinking about boring computer operating systems.

New tactic (1)

R3N3G4D3 (1227590) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840421)

Makes sense, how else can you get customers to use Vista unless you force them to.

Re:New tactic (1)

Almost-Retired (637760) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840973)

I would hope that it won't take Dell too long top see the error of their ways in reduced sales. Being pig headed in the face of reality does not lead to a long corporate life. But as long as M$ keeps listening to their attorneys instead or their customers, it will continue to be downhill in Redmond. Dell will hopefully discover that this is an error much faster than Redmond will.

It appears they, Redmond, have only partially understood that the market is not totally theirs to abuse and exploit as they see fit. But make no mistake, it IS their problem to understand that there IS a choice available to those who aren't afraid to dip a toe in the water. Me? I never drank the koolaid in the first place, building my own machines, they've never see an M$ install cd.

Now, if M$ had ever given me, as a maintainer of many M$ boxes before I retired, anything but a headache, I might think differently. When that happens, I might even buy that bridge in Tucson that used to be over the Thames. OTOH, I don't think alzheimers has set in that badly just yet.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
I can't complain, but sometimes I still do.
                                -- Joe Walsh

no problem (1)

slackoon (997078) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840455)

Am I the only one sho does notsee a problem here? Get Vista, sell the product key to someone unsuspecting fool and then install an old copy of XP SP2. Of course the product key might not work since it might be some Dell/XP cooperative scam, who knows. At any rate, $20 - $50 is a small price to pay for a computer that actually runs !!

Re:no problem (2, Insightful)

loafula (1080631) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840629)

$500 - $1500 is the price you pay for a PC that actually runs. An additional $20 on top of that is BS.

other side of the coin (3, Insightful)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840473)

As opposed to buying a copy of XP from someone else for $150?

Re:other side of the coin (2, Informative)

merreborn (853723) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840877)

As opposed to buying a copy of XP from someone else for $150?
It's $99 if you buy OEM.

What about refunds? (3, Interesting)

MarcoG42 (1087205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840481)

So, when I get the PC home do I get to not accept the EULA, and call for a rebate of the cost of Vista + the $20-$50 more I payed for my "downgrade?"

Re:What about refunds? (1)

Spazntwich (208070) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840637)

I guess if you wanted to be a dick for no reason.

It would probably be in your best interest to simply not choose the downgrade option and then ask for your refund on Vista.

Re:What about refunds? (1)

MarcoG42 (1087205) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840879)

I guess was trying to relay that charging more for XP is just as much a dick thing to do as asking for a refund after you've opted for it? Yeah, that's the ticket.

Better idea: (5, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840517)

How much would they add as a surcharge to ship any model I choose WITHOUT a Microsoft operating system on it?


As in: "...can you just send me the laptop with nothing at all installed on the hard disk? I intend to install (Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuSE) on it. No, I really don't want anything in the way of tech support outside of parts and labor."


/P

Re:Better idea: (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840921)

I know about the "Microsoft Tax" but I never thought about the fact that they wouldn't have to provide software support. I'd think that'd make it way cheaper. Though, on the other hand, I've had tech support not want to handle a hardware problem because I was running Linux. So I called back and told them I was running Windows.

Screw that noise (1)

Bryansix (761547) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840543)

I say we all call Dell Sales lines right now and complain about this crap. The Slashdotting of their call center will get their attention.

Re:Screw that noise (1)

peipas (809350) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840863)

Those of us who browse /. at work while on hold with Dell do not support this plan.

Almost makes sense (1)

faloi (738831) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840575)

For some classes of customers, they have to expect a certain number of calls over most other customers. Small Business customers are likely one of those classes, as they tend to not have their own IT staff. Charging them a premium for a near EOL (again) OS, allows Dell to recoup some of the costs associated with testing multiple flavors of XP on a continuing basis on systems that don't already have that cost built in (yes, I'm making the assumption they build that in to their different other classes of PC).

No to Vista (1)

Is0m0rph (819726) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840599)

I'd pay the $50... As a software developer that works with both C# and PLC programming frequently there's still too many programs that just don't work right on Vista that we have to use at the company I work for. My boss has tried to stay on Vista but simply can't.

For $50, can I have... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840613)

...a computer with NOTHING on it? It costs me / the company more than $50 while I sit there removing all the trialware and junk off the pre-loaded systems. I'd easily pay $50 to just get a machine with a blank hard drive and/or a "just load the OS" option.

Still a good deal... (1)

notnAP (846325) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840633)

... considering I don't buy Dell unless you pay me $250 minimum /workstation.

Ask for refund. (0, Troll)

willlyhill (1309611) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840663)

Say NO to M$ Spyware!

NERD RAGE TIME! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840665)

I love stories like this...especially the comments. You can almost feel the estrogen pumping through some people's veins as they bravely proclaim that this is an injustice of the highest order and it will permanently damage the vile M$ monopoly. But, hey, any chance to once again talk about how Vista is terrible is good, right? We all know that discussion NEVER gets old here at Slashdot!

(Estrogen seemed to be a more appropriate chemical here given how superficial the argument is. I can't help but be shallow sometimes.)

It's like American cars (0)

Yurka (468420) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840689)

Vista is the automatic transmission, XP is a manual. There's more to break down in an automatic, it saps the power of the engine, and it robs you of a certain degree of control over your car; but we are conditioned to think that slushboxes are an upgrade, and that when both are offered, it costs extra to have them (while some models don't come with the manual at all). I never understood that logic (as well as its "bigger car is better car" counterpart), and Europeans don't seem to be infected by it. Even in the US cars sometimes came with a "no-cost manual option" (admittedly, these were mostly Corvettes and BMWs); now it's time to drop the "no-cost" part of it. Still, some people (me included) would choose it, on both desktops and four wheels.

Microsoft Monopoly (4, Insightful)

mlwmohawk (801821) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840691)

Yet again we see proof that Microsoft has a monopoly. If there were real competition in the market, people would not be forced to bend over and pay more. There would be competition, Dell would have to offer it at the same price or another operating system would win.

Also, if there were competition, Microsoft would not have the economic ability to decide to drop a product that people wanted and force them into something they didn't. If I was a share holder and there was actual competition in the market place, I'd have the board and CEO fired for failing their fiduciary responsibilities.

But since they have a monopoly, there is no economic feedback.

Re:Microsoft Monopoly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840855)

This has nothing to do with the economic concept of a 'monopoly'. People love throwing that word around whenever they feel like criticizing microsoft. I'm surprised you didn't slur their name by calling them MS with a dollar sign.

This is about supply and demand. XP is nearing the end of it's lifecycle. Consumer perception, and in fact reality, is that the quantity supplied will eventually be reduced to zero. Under those conditions the price will increase for any product. If you were selling the last blue widgets in town you could boost the price too.

So, That's how Vista got to be #1... (1)

Zymergy (803632) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840699)

I am surprised that there is NOT some sort of MS kick-back schema for buying *something* with Windows Vista pre-installed (even if Dell or whomever replaces WinVista with WinXP before the end-user ever touches their new PC.)
I am NOT surprised that this is how Microsoft can claim Vista is their best selling and most popular OS of all time? (Thusly, Now nearly every PC has originally Vista, even if it is formatted and never used...)

If I sold wrenches and screwdrivers separately and I suddenly stopped selling my screwdrivers and subsequentally required anyone wanting to buy my screwdriver (beyond an arbitrary date) to first buy the unwanted wrench and then to "downgrade" their wrench purchase as it apparently entitles them to also have the screwdriver (but NOT to use both at the same time). (Nevermind, that if they wish to "upgrade" their screwdriver to a wrench, they will lose all the ability to use that screwdriver ever again...)
Now I can claim my wrenches are the best selling hand tool ever of all time!!
(Of course no one ever "OWNS" my said wrenches or screwdrivers, they ONLY license their use from me after first agreeing to a very lengthy EULA that no end user has ever read and of course paying me first for the privilege... )
-Great marketing racket and business model Microsoft. /sarcasm

Sidegrade? Upgrade? (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840703)

How much for Linux on that machine? Or better yet, how about a bare drive?

Now that's competition. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840713)

"You will buy what we fucking tell you to buy."

Let's give a big hand to market forces, everybody.

Or at least a finger.

You can downgrade for free. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840725)

According to Ballmer, if you own a copy of Vista you can legally install XP for no additional charge.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208402056

No Windows? (1)

rickatnight11 (818463) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840729)

And how much more does it cost to have it shipped without any Windows OS at all?

XP crashes apps minutes after installing (1)

Alphax.au (913011) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840785)

I saw someone re-install it on their machine (SP3) the other day and had their first application crash within the first minute. It also lacked drivers for their ethernet and wireless, but not the webcam. How exceedingly useful. Not that I'm advocating Vista, but XP still has its fair share of bugs (the Linux dual-boot that the guy had worked fine)...

They should pay us (1)

dokhebi (89124) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840803)

Dell, Gateway, etc should pay us to use any version of Windows on their hardware.

I'm getting more gray hairs the more I use Microsoft products. My hair would still be dark brown if the world had gone Linux 5 years ago...

Just my $0.02 worth.

At least there is an option... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840823)

Dell may offer that option in the U.S., at a price, in other areas they advertise that the customer is king and that therefore XP is available, but only for a select number of systems. Those systems then turn out to be top-of-the-line and cost the equivalent of thousands of dollars.

So, if I was in the market for a new PC, I'd be more than happy to pay the 50 bucks so I can have an OS that is compatible with most software I use, relatively stable and not requiring me to relearn operating my PC.

Dell XP install discs run perfectly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23840851)

I recently bought a Dell quad core with Vista - it sucked.

    Installed a new hard drive, reformatted and ran an old Dell XP install disc. XP installed, took updates to SP3 and it's been running fine for months. XP didn't even ask for a serial number which always was needed on the box the install disc originally came with.

Why not re-use licenses? (1)

DRBivens (148931) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840883)

Perhaps I'm missing something but I wonder why more folks who are replacing a computer don't simply use the OS license from the old one?

I have two machines on my desk, one GNU/Linux and one XP (because I'm too lazy to do the work required to get certain games, etc., to run on Linux). My XP machine has an Official Windows XP Professional 1-2 CPU sticker on it. Why can't/don't I get a new machine, install XP (or image-copy the old one) and wipe the old machine?

With the exception of the short time when both machines are running, it seems perfectly legitimate and I wonder why more folks don't choose this route.

Last time I checked the Windows EULA, it seemed like this was OK but, like I said, I may be missing something...)

50? sounds more like 150 (1)

methuselah (31331) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840947)

let see you have to buy a kicked up version of "vista" to be eligible to "downgrade" it. Then you have to pay a premium for the downgrade. Only in the computer business can something this idiotic be proffered and people will actually go for it. just another reason not to by any crap from any of these people. if you do go for a deal like this then well, hum ... nevermind

bargain (2, Informative)

ihatethetv (935399) | more than 6 years ago | (#23840955)

After going through a nightmare trying--"how hard can it be?"--to find XP drivers for an HP F763NR a few weeks ago this looks like a bargain. Amazing, they've made it as hard to find win xp drivers for some devices as it is to find linux drivers. Nice work folks! -G
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