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Sun's Java Will Be Free This Year

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the long-strange-trip dept.

Java 274

Ian Whyde notes that Sun is finally coming to the end of its struggle to open up Java completely. Simon Phipps, the chief open source officer at Sun Microsystems, said: "There were a couple of holdouts there. One was the area to do with raster graphics and 2D graphics. That turned out to be owned by a company that didn't want us to release that code as open source. We negotiated with them and because they've said 'yes, you can open source the code'... The only element that's left now is actually a sound-related component within Java. We finally decided that the vendor that's involved there just isn't going to play ball and we're rewriting the code from scratch. That's going to be done within the next couple of months." In another sense the milestone of a free Java was reached this week when IcedTea passed the rigorous Java Test Compatibility Kit.

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Next Question... (5, Interesting)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901057)

64bit Support? Well I guess that will be trivial when we can at least build from source. Then into packages and Repo's :D

Re:Next Question... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901071)

And then we can fork it and wreak havoc on MicroSoft's plans by calling it .Nut!
Oh yey.

Re:Next Question... (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901079)

OpenJDK FTW!

Re:Next Question... (4, Interesting)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901119)

Tried both 64bit Java plugins for firefox in Ubuntu 8.04 and have had limited success in a couple of things (mainly our secure access portal), but I can't say I've tested thoroughly a range of different things, nor had time to try and resolve the issue. Everything works great on my 32 bit install (but using the Proprietary plugin).

Re:Next Question... (0, Flamebait)

aproposofwhat (1019098) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901645)

Obfuscation wants to be free!

I don't see (apart from a small subset of problems) why 64-bit support is important - perhaps you have a 64-bit processor and think that everything is automagically twice as good compared to us 32-bitters.

Do you have a current problem that requires 64-bit address space, or are you just a fanboi for the latest and greatest?

Re:Next Question... (3, Insightful)

Cal Paterson (881180) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901681)

So servers using more than ~3.whatever GB of RAM is a "small subset" of what Java is used for?

And in five years time, you will feel the same way?

Re:Next Question... (3, Insightful)

Mortice (467747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901985)

Unless the sysadmins are loading up sites using Java applets on those servers, there won't be a problem.

Re:Next Question... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23902237)

so what about JAVA SERVER PAGES

yelling?! i think not!

Re:Next Question... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901733)

Do you have a current problem that requires 64-bit address space, or are you just a fanboi for the latest and greatest?

Do you realize that AMD64 has doubled the number of general purpose registers or are you just another clueless, snarky retard?

Same old 64-bit preconceptions (5, Interesting)

this great guy (922511) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901849)

  • The OpenSSL MD5 implementation is 14% faster [epita.fr] in 64-bit mode than the 32-bit version.
  • Ditto for RC4 which is about 50-60% faster [epita.fr] .
  • I have seen the sequential disk read throughput of an old SATA box jump by +30-40% with a 64-bit kernel, because of the paging overhead of a 32-bit kernel required to access high-memory (ie. memory between 1GB and 4GB).

May I suggest Myths and facts about 64-bit Linux [amd.com] for your reading pleasure ?

Re:Next Question... (1)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901911)

Yes, I have a current problem with 32 bit that is solved by 64bit. We have run into the desktop RAM limit. Or perhaps you think "3gb is enough for anybody?!?!?"

Re:Next Question... (4, Informative)

Octorian (14086) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901695)

Java has had 64-bit support for a very long time.

The only thing they haven't provided is a 64-bit web browser plugin. (And believe it or not, these days applets are probably the vast minority of where Java is actually used.)

java applets (1)

ya really (1257084) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902001)

My school insists on using a java applet for its email The Ohio State University [osu.edu] . Needless to say, it's the worst email system ever devised and has lots of cross browser incompatiblities. To top it off, they really think the java applet is a good idea, because they just did a major update to it, overhauling the entire program.

I avoid it like the plague by using pop3 and smtp

Adobe + Sun + Opensource = Heaven (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901073)

Am I the only one who loves Coldfusion?

-Jim Bastard

Re:Adobe + Sun + Opensource = Heaven (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901127)

Yes

Re:Adobe + Sun + Opensource = Heaven (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901337)

I thought you were dead already...

something fishy here.. (-1, Offtopic)

mewt (1057562) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901087)

Yoohoo!! wait a second...ARGHHHHHH

not quite (-1, Flamebait)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901097)

Sun Java will be available under a GPL license, but it remains dual-licensed. Dual licensing means that Sun still has special rights and Sun is still the only company that can control the future of Java.

Sun's Java will only truly be free if Sun drops dual licensing and releases it under a single license for everybody (GPL, Apache, LGPL, whatever).

Re:not quite (4, Informative)

Ice Tiger (10883) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901121)

Once the GPL version is out there it's out there, having a closed source licence version won't stop that.

No please! LET IT DIE!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901485)

I hope the GPL doesn't save this big steaming pile of shit. Nowadays you can browse most of the web without retarded applets popping up.
If we are going to go back to 1998 Microsoft could release ActiveX under the GPL as well. Ready for inclusion in FireFox 4 "GrandHole".

Re:No please! LET IT DIE!!! (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901561)

Nowadays you can browse most of the web without retarded applets popping up

Yeah, instead now you have those annoying closed source Flash (TM)(C) animations showing smilies shouting all over the place.

Re:No please! LET IT DIE!!! (4, Informative)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901933)

You should seriously consider installing noscript into your browser. Set it to allow first party scripts and block 3rd party scripts. 99.44% of all ads are GONE, and browser performance will greatly enhanced.

Re:No please! LET IT DIE!!! (4, Insightful)

c0p0n (770852) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901625)

Applets? Do you think that's what Java is used for these days? Have you been in hibernation, or serving time?

Re:not quite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901137)

Sun would still have special rights whether it was dual licensed or not.

Re:not quite (4, Informative)

IBBoard (1128019) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901159)

Sun would still have special rights whether it was dual licensed or not.

Exactly - as soon as Sun put code in to it (i.e. the start) they had rights on it in terms of having control over people re-licensing it. Now that it's GPLed then Sun can do whatever they want, but the GPL version is still out there and free for people to take and modify.

Re:not quite (5, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901191)

Dual licensing means that Sun still has special rights

If Sun has copyright, they have special rights regardless of how many licenses they release Java under.

Frankly, if Java's released under a free license, its irrelevant what other licenses you use with it.

(is perl less free because of dual licensing? KDE?)

Re:not quite (4, Interesting)

AmaDaden (794446) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901855)

Yes but they let people have some say. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process [wikipedia.org] If there was something that you wanted in Java you could make a Java Specification Request or JSR for it and hope it gets moved in. But we all want avoid bloat so this is a very slow heavy process. Take a look at this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history [wikipedia.org] and you can see that several JSRs have been moved in to Java it self. I could be wrong but it seems that for Java 6 the additions to Java have all been from JSRs so it looks like Sun intends to have all new improvements go though the JCP first.

Come to think of it this reminds me a lot of other open projects. The code is open and you can suggest something should be in it. However if they say no you are SOL. You will have to compile the project on your own and add in your changes. What would you want instead? Is the only problem you have that Sun has final say in the JCP?

Obsolete (-1, Flamebait)

IAR80 (598046) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901103)

I hoped it was going to be declared obsolete this year.

Re:Obsolete (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901115)

Announcements of opening or obsolescence : I'll believe it when I'll see it.

Re:Obsolete (-1, Offtopic)

Nutria (679911) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901577)

The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

Many people consider George W a fool.

Re:Obsolete (5, Insightful)

Marcus Green (34723) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901369)

Yes of course Java will be declared obsolete this year. As one of the top most in demand tech skill on the planet all the usuers are furiously swapping to make sure they convert to product Y by the end of the year and abandon the last ten years of development. (try typing in the word Java to a job search engine, then type in your favorite skill de jour)

Please excuse my ignorance... (1)

dannydawg5 (910769) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901821)

I hear everybody mentioning Java being the top programming language, and reputable sites everywhere seem to agree.

However, where is all this Java being used? Every program I use (when source is available) seems to be C++, a .NET language, or PHP/Perl/Python/ASP for websites.

Are all these developers compiling the bytecode to native code when they distribute? Where are the results for this huge demand for Java?

Thanks,
Danny

Re:Please excuse my ignorance... (3, Informative)

deraj123 (1225722) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902145)

The majority of Java jobs that I see posted are for work that isn't distributed. Intranet web applications, internally developed web applications, etc. Everything that I have done in the past five years has been either web applications that are solely for the use of the employer, or that are used to add value to some existing service that is offered to business customers.
Also, supposedly Java is big in the mobile phone type electronics space, but I don't have any experience with that - maybe somebody else could provide some information on that.

Re:Please excuse my ignorance... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23902197)

In enterprises,
On the Tomcat servers
Have you heard of Limewire ?

two months for rewriting code? (3, Insightful)

crazybit (918023) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901105)

Why don't they just optimize the needed lines from IcedTea and glue them to their licensed code?

isn't that supposed to be the way OSS benefits the community?

Re:two months for rewriting code? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901135)

Sun wants to retain the dual licensing model for now (see above) and thus they cannot just use GPL'd code just yet. On the bright side they can change the license now at wish and can make Java GPLv3 or BSD any time they want.

Re:two months for rewriting code? (2, Insightful)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902275)

Or just post it with dummy code for the audio, so the community will be able to contribute working code? If you're going to post it as open-source, why not let that work for you, too?

Major thanks + minor celebration (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901175)

I think I'm with everyone here if I give Sun a big "Thank you!" for all their trouble and effort. Java would probably one of the biggest wins for the community and its release when it comes will be worth a celebration.

Re:Major thanks + minor celebration (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901995)

I would think it was a big win if you could get a version of Java easily available on a shared webhosting environment. Most hosting services don't even offer it. And those that do, do weird kludges to get things working, such as rebooting the server every night, so that your .war files are reloaded. Maybe things have changed in the last couple of years, since I last went looking. I really wish I didn't have to use PHP, with it's half-baked object oriented API, and something that could actually compile, at least to byte code. The best thing that could happen to Java, would be to make it easier for those who want to do it as a hobby or side project, to actually use it as such.

Re:Major thanks + minor celebration (1)

TheSunborn (68004) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902279)

Reboot the server to reload war files? What kind of hack was that???

Tomcat have always* suported reloading war files. They even include a web utility where each customer can start/stop/reload his servlet.

*At least at far back as I can remember.

On other news (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901197)

This is also the year of Linux on desktop.

cu+8 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901211)

irc network. The implementation to appeared...saying Series of exploding filed 9countersuit, benefits of being for successful world will have

Why Sun's Java? (0, Redundant)

praseodym (813457) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901213)

What do we need Sun's Java for when we've got IcedTea, which is essentially Sun's Java with patented code (and other parts which could not be open-sourced) re-written? Is Sun's release better in any way?

Re:Why Sun's Java? (4, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901365)

Multiple, parallel versions splits development efforts. It also splits QA efforts, and makes support for both versions problematic. It's usually much safer to have a primary release and branches to test new features, rather than being forced to rewrite from scratch. I give good credit to Sun for doing this: it's one of the missing Java support components for the open source world, and should allow inclusion of actual Java in distributions such as Fedora and Mandriva, saving us serious pain maintaining multiple, slightly conflicting versions in different locations for different packages. And it should make OpenOffice installations much smaller and more efficient.

Re:Why Sun's Java? (2, Interesting)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901685)

I can only hope that Sun's going to move all development to the GPL branch in future.

To take Digium Asterisk as an example of a disastrous dual licensing scheme, they release a GPL version of their code and keep their proprietary version closed source (which means they can use no GPL code in it). All contributions made are given to Digium or put in the public domain - stripping the original author of his or her copyright.

So it's open source and you can take the code, branch it off and do whatever you want, but possible contributors are less willing to push upstream, and in a few instances Digium have refused to take really great innovative contributions because they use GPL code from other projects which cant be re-licensed and given to the company.

Back to the topic... it's not such an extreme situation as people can still make contributions under a dual CDDL/GPL license, but it's harmful in the long run because it greatly restricts how you can mix code/projects into Java without forking the dev effort.

Don't rewrite, just remove it! (2, Insightful)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901223)

We finally decided that the vendor that's involved there just isn't going to play ball and we're rewriting the code from scratch. That's going to be done within the next couple of months.
One of the major benefits of releasing something into open source is the volunteer help. Don't hold it back just because a relatively small component needs to be rewritten. Remove the component again, leaving stubs, and just explain what it's supposed to do. For something as major as a GPL Java, the component will be rewritten by volunteers in no time at all, plus a small well defined project like that is a great way to get up to speed on a new code base.

Re:Don't rewrite, just remove it! (5, Informative)

HJED (1304957) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901377)

there are volunteers who have been working on this for some time here [java.net]
which is what JDK 7 .0 [java.net] is based on!

I hope (5, Insightful)

dwalsh (87765) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901233)

... people recognize the scale and generosity of what Sun have done in GPL'ing their crown jewel.

Aye, that and.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901301)

Indeed. That and the risks still involved with this whole movement.

Re:I hope (4, Funny)

kaffiene (38781) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901307)

You're new to slashdot, then?

Re:I hope (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901319)

I don't want to take away from the great collaberative thing they've done. They are definitely pulling their weight. However, you should realise they don't do this because they are a charity. They do this because they think it will give them commercial gain.

It's main benefit is it becomes much safer to rely on Java than on DotNet. Once Sun has done this you can commit to their platform knowing that they cannot take the rug away from under your own software. That's a promise which makes Sun Java much more attractive.

Re:I hope (3, Insightful)

dwarfking (95773) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901929)

Which is exactly why they should do it, considering that Sun is a for-profit publicly traded company. Commercial gain is what they are supposed to do.

It will be interesting to see where this all leads.

Re:I hope (5, Funny)

nonewmsgs (1249950) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901357)

... people recognize the scale and generosity of what Sun have done in GPL'ing their crown jewel.

you mean zfs is going to be gpl'ed?

Re:I hope (3, Interesting)

NotInfinitumLabs (1150639) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901423)

That's the rumor goin' round, since the pictures of Jeff Bonwick (Guy in charge of ZFS) and Linus Torvalds havin' some beers together surfaced: relevent article [practical-tech.com]

Re:I hope (1)

dwalsh (87765) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901513)

I knew a Solaris fan would reply :-)

Re:I hope (3, Interesting)

isorox (205688) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901383)

... people recognize the scale and generosity of what Sun have done in GPL'ing their crown jewel.

Is it still their crown jewel, more than ZFS, DTrace, and other Solaris 10 features?

Re:I hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901693)

Their stock symbol is now JAVA, so they seem to think so.

No accounting for taste, I guess.

Re:I hope (1)

Octorian (14086) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901707)

Those are already making their way into other operating systems, including F/OSS ones. Just not Linux, because they're under GPL-incompatible licenses.

(MacOS 10.5 has DTrace, FreeBSD 7 has ZFS, etc.)

Re:I hope (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902187)

Java is available elsewhere too -- notably windows.

Re:I hope (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901387)

I doubt Sun did this out of altruism. They didn't start being more open with Java until they had competition in the form of .Net

However, props to Sun for doing the sensible thing.

Re:I hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901727)

Its their family jewels, I tell 'ya!

Sound-related component from... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901235)

According to http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/sound/soundbanks.html that looks like Thomas "Dolby" Robertson's Beatnik, Inc. -- or who "isn't going to play ball"?

Re:Sound-related component from... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901425)

Is midi file rendering and soundbank support the only thing missing? I can see you might want these for Java ME but for a desktop app in 2008... it's inconsequential! Is Robertson still on the beatnik board, perhaps he can also transfer his rights on the Howard the Duck soundtrack. It's at least as relevant as midi to over 90% of real world use cases.

Nope, this can't be the only thing holding up OpenJDK and as others have said, IcedTea fills the hole.

The company that owns the sound support stuff (1, Interesting)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901305)

Does anybody know who they are?

I think we should get the rumor mill started with things like "actively discouraged open-source" and so on, after all Sun are doing a good thing yet it seems this one company have been holding it up with an over-zealous attitude to I.P.

Re:The company that owns the sound support stuff (5, Insightful)

frodo from middle ea (602941) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901367)

Yes , bad mouthing a company without knowing anything about it, that's the way we can get companies to be more OSS friendly. Way to go.

Re:The company that owns the sound support stuff (1)

vanaeken (162529) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901471)

Yes, let's start a hatefest! After all, that's what /. is for.

Re:The company that owns the sound support stuff (2)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901629)

When you know who the company is, you can then start asking the right questions like:


  •  
  • Why weren't they willing to allow Sun to open-source it?

  •  
  • Were they asking for more money? So much that Sun saw it as unreasonable?

  •  
  • Is it pure politics?

iirc it might have been the midi component of the sound system, but any more information would be great.

Re:The company that owns the sound support stuff (1)

Darfeld (1147131) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901875)

Why weren't they willing to allow Sun to open-source it?

Who give a damn? If they make benefits of it, good for them, and good for us if it could make company open more stuff.

And why does it matter? (0)

mangu (126918) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901829)

Methinks it speaks very ill for Java, if the sound support is so deeply woven into the language that this becomes a major problem.


Back in 1973, when Dennis Ritchie created C, the decoupling of I/O from the syntax by using libraries was a major advantage over the languages of the day, such as Fortran and Cobol. Today languages such as Perl or Python have further perfected this concept. In Python there are standard APIs so that in many cases you can switch to another library without changing the function calls.


Java may be more used than Python or Ruby, but so is VB, too, in the corporate applications. Perhaps Sun will find that it takes more than a free-as-in-speech licence to catch the spirit of free software.

Re:And why does it matter? (2, Informative)

Mortice (467747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901853)

Who said it was 'deeply woven into the language'?

You do realise that we're talking about the entire API? A GPL Java interpreter/compiler is (and has been proved to be) trivial to implement.

Re:And why does it matter? (2, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902075)

The fact that they can just rewrite it means that it isn't deeply woven into the language. What they are doing, is writing a new library against the same API, so that they can open source it. They could probably release a version of the JDK without those parts of the API, and a lot of would not notice, because very few apps make use of those APIs. Especially in the server realm, where Java is most popular. Methinks you don't know what you're talking about, because this isn't a major problem. They are easily getting around the other company's pigheadedness, of refusing to release the source, by just rewriting that part of the code. It's really quite simple.

Re:The company that owns the sound support stuff (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902265)

Does anybody know who they are?

The graphics rendering pipeline was based on licensed code from Kodak. The sound support was based on a licensed copy of Dolby Headspace. Headspace is actually far more capable than the Java API exposes. There was a bit of a push to expose that functionality, but Sun didn't want to go that direction for fear of compromising the possibility of independent Java implementations. Seems that was a wise decision. ;-)

In other news (4, Funny)

silentcoder (1241496) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901355)

RMS has decried the GPL'ing of Java as being a major assault on free software advocacy.
"For years we have warned people to steer clear of writing free software in languages that require non-free VM's or other components to work by calling this the 'Java trap'. Using this well known example with a VM that is slow and bloated and used for software that doesn't fit into any OS anywhere and which nobody actually liked, quickly got the point made and we could then more easily make the point about things that some people actually enjoyed like educational games written in flash... now SUN has GPL'd Java they have made removed our greatest example of the evils of the erm flash trap ! This may still have been a win for free software if only anything usable had ever been written in Java - but seeing as nothing has, it was only ever good as an example. Universities used the language as an example of good object orientation, we used the license as an example of the s/java/flash/g trap" the FSF founder said in a press release.

Despite his hardcore geek nature the release will more likely be remembered for his attempts at a verbal sed script than for it's actual point.

Re:In other news (5, Interesting)

silentcoder (1241496) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901389)

WTF !?!?!?
What kind of crack made a mod rate me INTERESTING there ? Was the satire/joke not obvious enough ?!

Re:In other news (5, Funny)

Mortice (467747) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901411)

s/obvious/funny/g

Re:In other news (1)

silentcoder (1241496) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901451)

Heh, now that is funny.

The mod however is STILL on crack because even if !funny == !joke that is a far cry from !funny=interesting.

Re:In other news (1)

kipman725 (1248126) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901445)

I imagain RMS is currently jumping around the room like the energiser bunny. The joke just dosen't fit.

Re:In other news (1)

silent_artichoke (973182) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901593)

Hello... We're all nerds and geeks here right? How could the thought of introducing sed statements into everyday conversation NOT interest you? Sheesh!

Re:In other news (1)

mario_grgic (515333) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901435)

It sounds like something RMS could say :D... Hence the moderation.

Re:In other news (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901481)

What does the s/java/flash/g trap mean? (the s/ and /g)... It's obvious what the java/flash bit is XD

Re:In other news (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901525)

What does the s/java/flash/g trap mean? (the s/ and /g)...
It's the syntax for a global substitution using sed. GNU sed manual [gnu.org]

Re:In other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23902295)

True, but I think the parent post was wondering why a regex like '(flash|java)' wasn't used as it makes more sense in context.

Have we killed this joke yet ?

Re:In other news (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901583)

[s]earch for /java/
and replace it with /flash/

[g]o!

well... that is how I understand it, I have used it in sed but I think python also use it doesn't it?

Re:In other news (1)

tomtomtom777 (1148633) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901603)

s/go!/global/g

the g switch ensures all occurrences are replaces instead of the first of each line

Re:In other news (2, Funny)

Marcus Green (34723) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901543)

"RMS has decried the GPL'ing of Java as being a major assault on free software advocacy."

Strange, according to multiple easily locatable sources Mr Stallman was very pleased with the idea and execution of the release of Java under the GPL and when the GPL announcement was made a video was available of him endorsing the move. Could you give a source for your apparent quote from RMS?

Re:In other news (2, Informative)

lyml (1200795) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901825)

I'm pretty sure it's not a quote but an attempt to be funny. Altough the mods (and you) seems to have missed the point ;).

Dumbass mods (1, Offtopic)

Nimey (114278) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901551)

This is funny, not interesting.

Re:In other news (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901953)

It's really another example of how irrelevant RMS has become. He's pushing his own agenda (this time Java Sucks) when Sun has gotten onboard 100% with the GPL. He'll find just about anything to bitch about, no matter how pedantic.

Its been free for years already... (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901419)

...and yes I mean free as in beer. The only free that counts to 99.9% of people.

The kind of free that doesn't turn intelligent computer scientists and engineers into retarded politicians whinging about intellectual property and patents rather than just getting the fuck on with it.

Re:Its been free for years already... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901579)

Funny, you're the only one in this thread who's whinging, and you're anti-Free software (or so it would seem).

It's good news (5, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901541)

Once again, I thank SUN for all efforts in this direction. My request to other OSS evangelists is to let existing Open source implementations of Java die so that efforts can be spent on this SUN implementation alone. The availability of multiple implementations of the same idea is not getting us very far so far. I hope we have learned from this.

Re:It's good news (1)

hvm2hvm (1208954) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902039)

Yeah, or if people fork it they should at least make it compatible with the official product. Needing to install 3-4 different environments that change all the time is worse (IMO) than having only 1 closed source.

JAVA Stock will be free this year, too. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901609)

Sun's stock is likely to be free this year, too. As if being 95% off its 2001 price back in 2007, Jonothan Schwartz's brilliant renaming of the ticket and 4:1 reverse split has accomlished an almost 60% loss of value in the last eight months.

With this idiot at the helm and the board which obviously could not care less what happens at Sun, I wouldn't doubt if the current price ($2.85 in pre-reverse-split prices) drops another 50% by 2009.

Re:JAVA Stock will be free this year, too. (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902141)

It's amazing. Millions of people around the world, using their product, and they still can't make good money off it. Granted, they give it away for free, but there still should be a lot of money to make in support contracts.

Wow free coffee (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23901755)

I thought the sun just did light...and..stuff...

My Sun stock will be free this year too (1)

shadowofwind (1209890) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901835)

the way it has been going.

This is Great News (I'm a .Net/Mono Developer!!) (5, Interesting)

mrpacmanjel (38218) | more than 6 years ago | (#23901999)

I Have enjoyed writing software in Mono for the past year or so and developing .Net applications at work a little longer.

But one thing bothers me - you know what I going to say next.... ..Patents! or MS derived technology.

Now, to be fair it seems pretty much most software is 'perceived' to violate a patent of some description today.

As I understand it the mono vm apparently is o.k. but some of the libraries(e.g. ADO, Windows.Forms, ASP and even c#) are suppossed to violate patents and this is unfortunate.

Some of the software I have written will have commercial applications and the *uncertainty* of the status of mono in general is in question. Even the MS 'agreements' signed by Novell purposely *exclude* mono in any protection.

Personally I prefer Mono(and some great apps are available-e.g. Banshee, MonoDevelop) compared to Java but because of the huge amount of work by Sun and the community to fully open-source Java I will switch to it immediately.

My reasons to switch are:
1) Java is open-sourced and the actual company(Sun) that created it are fully involved and are a positive influence in the community.
2) Java is present in almost all modern mobile phones. There is great potential to leverage this and I'm sure there are many ways this can be used with the Desktop.
3) The development tools are free, full versions and are very powerful. Visual Studio Express is free but it has reduced functionality compared to the full version.
4) 'Peace of Mind'. I can develop my software without looking over my shoulder wondering 'will I get sued'!
5) .Net's direction from v2.00 to v3.5 is becoming more tied in to Windows. From v3.0(or v3.5?) Microsoft included Vista libraries are part of the default installation. It's the old MS Treadmill(tm) all over again.

As far as I know both Java and Mono are very capable technologies. It is difficult to choose one on technical merit alone, it comes down to the licensing - Sun has fully committed to the community and Microsoft has been fairly under-handed.

If Mono is to survive and be taken seriously within the community it must take a completely different direction. Start developing open-source equivalents of the libraries (e.g. gtk# for gui controls).

Like I said before I prefer Mono to Java (concerning the gui Mono just 'feels' more responsive than Java).

What we should do as a community is to fully get behind Java and push its development and start using it on the desktop. We can create some great applications for it and keep open-source software 'untainted'.

Sun have made a great long-term decision by opening-up Java - it will be seen as a safe option and is available for many platforms. .Net's long-term future is in doubt because Microsoft will not open-source or allow competing versions to exist. Many forms of computers now exist today in mobile phones, pdas, laptops and many different types of CPUs. Java(in various forms) runs everywhere. By using Java as a common standard all these devices can communicate together and develop interesting uses.

Just the insane ramblings of a elderly programmer (I'm 38 you know!).

P.S. 'Get off my lawn!'

Re:This is Great News (I'm a .Net/Mono Developer!! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23902309)

concerning the gui Mono just 'feels' more responsive than Java
You might want to check out something that isn't Swing then, for example SWT, or perhaps Fenggui. Although Swing is far better integrated with the native platform in the current Java release, you're probably talking about the programming rather than the L&F.

Richard was right (5, Informative)

iwbcman (603788) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902031)

Richard was right.

Do you guys and gals remember when Richard did a short stint in a video for Sun following the announcement that Sun had decided to GPL Java ?

I can only imagine how happy Richard was on that day. He had every reason to be so. Not simply because Sun had chosen to use his license for Java-but rather because of a little bit of historical trivia that most Free Software users are too young to remember.

Now surely you know the name James Gosling. He was the one who created Java. But did you know that there is a rather interesting relationship between him and Richard ?

One of the single biggest reasons that Richard wrote the GPL and created what we now know as Free Software has everything to do with James Gosling.

"In the early years (1984 to 1988), the GNU Project did not have a single license to cover all its software. What led Stallman to the creation of this copyleft license was his experience with James Gosling, creator of NeWs and the Java programming language, and UniPress, over Emacs. While Stallman created the first Emacs in 1975, Gosling wrote the first C-based Emacs (Gosling Emacs) running on Unix in 1982. Gosling initally allowed free distribution of the Gosling Emacs source code, which Stallman used in early 1985 in the first version (15.34) of GNU Emacs. Gosling later sold rights to Gosling Emacs to UniPress, and Gosling Emacs became UniPress Emacs. UniPress threatened Stallman to stop distributing the Gosling source code, and Stallman was forced to comply. He later replace these parts with his own code. (Emacs version 16.56). (See the Emacs Timeline) To prevent free code from being proprietarized in this manner in the future, Stallman invented the GPL."

http://www.free-soft.org/gpl_history/ [free-soft.org]

Many people who are ignorant of this history have always been affronted by Stallman's use of the phrase "Java Trap". But is it really any wonder that Richard chose to use that expression-given what personally had transpired between him and James Gosling.

Bill Joy was the cofounder of Sun Microsystems. He is also the guy who originally wrote Vi. Bill Joy was also friends with James Gosling- and made Gosling's baby practically synonymous with the name Sun.

This little bit of trivia adds a whole lot to all of the flamefests over the years about Emacs vs. Vi. SunOS, which we now know as OpenSolaris, was the first heavily commercialized version of what we now know as BSD. Bill Joy used the code written at Berkley to create the original SunOS.

That Java is now GPL is nothing less than Sun saying to Richard-"Richard, you were right". And if one day OpenSolaris embraces the GPL Richard's victory will be complete.

You may think this is nothing but propaganda-but I encourage you to actually *learn* about the history of these giants of the computer world.

Now that the OpenJDK is %100 Free, %100 GPL, Richard has received the kind of vindication that hardly *anyone* in life ever gets. Cheers to you Richard and Cheers to Sun for seeing the light.

I hear "Free Java" will be bundled with (0, Flamebait)

mandark1967 (630856) | more than 6 years ago | (#23902209)

Duke Nukem Forever.

This software should have been freed up years ago.

Too little, too late, IMHO.

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