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DHS Official Considered Shock Collars For Air Travelers

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the kip-hawley-please-to-the-red-discourtesy-phone dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 673

"The Washington Times is reporting that the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet. Plans for the device include subduing passengers remotely as well as onboard interrogation. There's even a promotional video." Perhaps Paul Ruwaldt (the official named in this story) has been watching "The Coneheads" a bit too much, or not actually flying enough. Expressing interest is not quite the same as ordering mass quantities, but it's scary enough.

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Dangerous slide (4, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101159)

Flying into this country is becoming more and more of a hassle [utah.edu] and every time that I fly outside the US, it is apparent that the DHS is completely corrupting business and pleasure travel at the expense of our freedoms and economy.

If our government seriously thinks this is a viable option, then we have truly lost and the slide towards a fascist government will be complete. Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.

What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying "Oh, well.... we intended this to be used for transporting criminals" or some such nonsense like that. This idea is one of the most absurd and dangerous ideas I've heard from my government in a long time and it moves us dangerously close to a threshold that will destabilize this country.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Insightful)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101273)

The truth is that another hijacking is unlikely to happen. With the memory of 9/11 anyone trying to take over the airplane is going to be subdued, if not out and out killed, by the passengers. The philosophy before 9/11 was to sit back, let the terrorists make their statement, and then everyone will be safe. Not any more.

So TSA's main job now is justifying their job.

Re:Dangerous slide (-1, Flamebait)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101475)

That's exactly right.

I'm reasonably sure that the passengers on those doomed 9/11 flights sat back and thought about the fat settlement cheques that they were going to get from the airlines for "mental anguish and emotional distress".

Not that I blame them - nobody thought that they were going to be flown into a freaking building. If they'd had any idea, I'm sure they would have rushed the terrorists. Now, the passengers are more likely to say, "fuck it, I'm dead anyway but if we take him out we've got a chance."

I also think that Flight 93 was shot down, and I don't blame the US for doing that either. I understand the "let's roll" cover story that let the folks on the plane die as heroes. Of course, I don't think the passengers had time to watch the news, call their families, and say goodbye.

Re:Dangerous slide (1)

computerman413 (1122419) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101759)

These days, the even bigger issue with a hijacking is getting into the cockpit, now that its security has been increased.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101791)

I also think that Flight 93 was shot down,

That's right, keep the conspiracy flying.

I don't think the passengers had time to watch the news, call their families, and say goodbye.

Right. Because the recorded phone messages of flight attendants and some of the passengers are completely fabricated. The families made them up after the plane went down to gain sympathy.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Insightful)

Bombula (670389) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101489)

This is just the latest insanity. The fear level in American culture is, as Noam Chomsky puts it, "off the scale." There is nothing comparable to it in any other culture in the world, developed or developing. Being fearful of flying, while irrational, is fairly understandable - like being fearful of riding in a submarine - even though riding in cars and on bicycles is vastly more dangerous. But being afraid of terrorists blowing up malls and municpal airports in Iowa and Kansas is sheer madness.

I'm not completely sure why the fear level is so high in American culture, but I'd hazard to guess that it's the result of a combination of being too used to being too comfortable and too safe too much of the time - similar to tyrant's paranoia - and the fact that the media and the current administration both cultivate fear (for different reasons).

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Interesting)

mbone (558574) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101779)

The fear level in American culture is, as Noam Chomsky puts it, "off the scale."

The weird thing is that I don't feel afraid (and I travel frequently) and I don't know anyone who is really afraid. Where are all of these scared people ? Who are they ? More importantly, do we know that the above statement is really true, or is it just what we are told ?

Re:Dangerous slide (4, Insightful)

tgd (2822) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101783)

Just remember, the only thing we have to fear is...

Um...

Well, is our government it seems.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Insightful)

Tipa (881911) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101823)

American culture doesn't have this level of fear. Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat, though I imagine some people have. Nobody I know of thinks TSA is making air travel safer.

This whole fear thing has been manufactured by the government as an excuse to remove our civil liberties.

Don't ever EVER think that the American people are demanding it. We're not. This is being done TO us, not FOR us.

Re:Dangerous slide (2, Funny)

pzs (857406) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101531)

Amen, brother. Don't even get me started on not carrying 100ml of fluid or taking my shoes off at the security gate. Forget Loose-Change style "Bush did it" conspiracy theories, Al Qaeda is probably a puppet of the security companies.

Re:Dangerous slide (4, Insightful)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101579)

The truth is that another hijacking is unlikely to happen. With the memory of 9/11 anyone trying to take over the airplane is going to be subdued, if not out and out killed, by the passengers.

Unless the passengers are taken out by shock bracelets. Good job, TSA!

Re:Dangerous slide (2, Interesting)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101663)

There will never be another hijacking of a plane with americans on it. The shock/terror value was in the fact that it hadn't been done or talked about to the extent that it happened that day. Now that we all know, the terrorists lose the "shock/terror" value and must move on to some other thing. If you reveal what their plan is, it defuses 99% of the shock value, which is why i support reporting on any given terror plot, no matter how unlikely, because once it's out there, the public knows about it and the shock value is lost.

Re:Dangerous slide (2, Insightful)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101797)

I think it's the randomness of it that scares people, not the novelty and shock value.

For example, the suicide bombings in Israel are neither novel nor particularly shocking, but the factor of "Oh shit, this could have happened to my family" is what gets to most people.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Funny)

erudified (958273) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101773)

The truth is that another hijacking is unlikely to happen.

Wrong!

If they put a shock collar on me, I'd blow the damn plane up on general principle.

Re:Dangerous slide (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101387)

I predict a great future for video conferencing companies.

Re:Dangerous slide (3, Insightful)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101487)

Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.

Why stop at travel? Why not just have everyone wear these all the time? You'd probably have to randomly test-shock people to deter tampering, but hey, such is the price you pay for Freedom. Er.. Liberty? No, what was it the US government always swore to defend, again?

Re:Dangerous slide (1)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101513)

When did the quote tags stop working?

Re:Dangerous slide (3, Funny)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101833)

You're on idle.slashdot.org, and your only question is why the quote tags aren't working? This page has bigger problems.

Re:Dangerous slide (5, Funny)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101581)

Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.

Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as animals when they travel.

There. Fixed that for you.

Re:Dangerous slide (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101735)

Which is good since we are animals...

Re:Dangerous slide (3, Insightful)

flyneye (84093) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101713)

From an "evolutionary" standpoint,this is probably the beginning of the end for "big birds" and large long flights.
Fuel is an issue as well as alternative travel options,now we have DHS. I admire their enthusiasm but they lack in the brains dept.
          I predict that the small aircraft industry and charter flights is gonna boom because of the added aggravation.
Big birds can't get any lighter without using toilet paper in place of aluminum and fuel costs are already killing the industry. I predict people will drive long distances now in silly little cars or motorcycles.Tents will replace campers.
People will chose comfort and peace of mind over cost and aggravation any day of the week.
          So long 747,I might see you flying across oceans now and then,but your days are numbered.

Shocking ! (4, Funny)

trolltalk.com (1108067) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101163)

I thought that air travel was punishment enough already!

Re:Shocking ! (3, Funny)

LuisAnaya (865769) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101835)

Well... who knows. some people with electroshock fetish might even pay a premium.. ;)

Re:Shocking ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101843)

I hereby nominate said official to test the new electrified anal probe.

Give me your agonizer!!! (2, Insightful)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101165)

Life imitates "Mirror, Mirror." Swell.

Re:Give me your agonizer!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101693)

Next step: heart plug.

McCain does look like the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen.

Nothing to see here, move along (4, Insightful)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101175)

TFS liks to a blog post which itself links to part of a letter (page two, so we don't even get to see the whole letter). The video link tells us simply that a company called Lamperd Less Lethal would love to sell these devices to a government agency. There is absolutely no evidence presented that would justify the claim that "the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet". Why did this fake story even get posted?

Re:Nothing to see here, move along (4, Funny)

gnick (1211984) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101343)

Why did this fake story even get posted?

Because it's amusing? If only they had tagged it with a Monty-Python style foot and posted it to 'idle' so that we had some indication that it was silly instead of serious news...

Re:Nothing to see here, move along (4, Informative)

hey! (33014) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101365)

TFS liks to a blog post which itself links to part of a letter (page two, so we don't even get to see the whole letter).

Well, WRT page 1, I used my superior hacking skills to alter the URL http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com] to http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com] .

I don't think it is so far fetched for the FAA to want to know about this technology. Wanting to know about it doesn't necessarily mean they intend to mandate it for general use. In fact the letter mentions what occurred to me to be some obvious legitimate applications of the technology, such as prisoner transport.

Re:Nothing to see here, move along (0, Flamebait)

Underfunded (1039600) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101707)

Great hacking skills in modifying the URL. I mean it isn't like page 1 was linked anywhere in the article. Especially not in the next paragraph down from where page 2 was linked. "In another part of the letter, Mr. Ruwaldt confirmed, âoeIt is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes.â"

Re:Nothing to see here, move along (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101641)

What part of "idle.slashdot.org" is giving you problems? You should trust the editors when they say you should nev er go there...posted to idle... then firehosed up... why don't you frequent the firehose and give a thumbs-down to articles like this so they are less likely to get posted to the frontpage?

That's not fair (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101179)

It has to go around the neck to be a shock collar. Of course, I didn't RTFA, but the summary makes it sound like more of a "ObeyStrong" wristband. Quite fashionable when placed next to a livestrong and wriststrong band.

Shocking? (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101183)

Hardly.

Look at the backgrounds on Chertoff, Zackheim, and etc.

Satan never had such a crew since the death of Erich Honecker and Yuri Andropov.

Re:Shocking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101401)

More like Lenin and Trotsky, their co-religionists :P

WTF? (2, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101185)

Timothy, wtf? Why is this in idle, where almost no one is going to bother looking at it (since many, many people avoid idle like the plague)? This needs to be seen by everyone, not just a few.

Also, it's NOT funny. DON'T LAUGH! This is scary, not funny.

Re:WTF? (4, Funny)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101405)

No, TSA-mandated 12" exploding buttplugs would be scary. (which is what it'll take for the public to wake up)

Shock collar boarding passes are merely funny.

How much is a pilot license? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101191)

They don't force you to do any of that bullshit if you're flying your own plane, right?

Re:How much is a pilot license? (5, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101319)

That is just it... I can load just about anything I want into my private plane and fly anywhere in the US without having to go through security, without having to provide biometric ID, without having to take my shoes off, without having to wear shock collars, etc...etc...etc...

That is why this whole thing is security theatre.

Re:How much is a pilot license? (1)

jbrandv (96371) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101441)

True. Plus, given you have to be at the airport at least two hours early, I can usually fly my private plane and beat the commercial airlines to my destination! It costs more but my wife can still smoke and we get better snacks too.

Re:How much is a pilot license? (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101591)

I don't know about the smoking part but I'm all about the snacks. Where are the cheeto's!? I'm getting a Mt. Dew!

Thank goodness... (1)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101219)

that this is in idle. For a moment, I was preparing to think I would have to show my papers for entry into the USSA.

While, um, probably effective, what happens when one gets attached to the pilot and he gets shocked instead of the "terrorist"?

I guess if we actually allowed, the gov't would herald it as a prevention by taking down a whole plane of "terrorists".

I would want independent confirmation of this. (2, Insightful)

mbone (558574) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101225)

Living in the DC area, and seeing the Washington Times (owned by the unification church) in action, I don't consider it a reputable paper and would want some independent confirmation of this.

wapo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101559)

And WaPo is a governmental propaganda outlet run by bilderburgers. So what is the real difference, moonies, bilderburgers, both control freaks, both use propaganda to influence you.

And quite frankly, odds are heavy that if you live in the DC area you are at least part of the overall governmental big brother problem by being a governmental worker or assisting them in some way as a private contractor. I don't know that for a fact, but odds are heavy. The entire system is corrupt and broken and no where is there any evidence whatsoever that insiders in government are mitigating anything, on the contrary, it all keeps going forward into goose stepping land. The government wouldn't be near as outrageously and negatively powerful if they didn't have legions of order followers. Until we the "other" folks in the nation start seeing governmental workers en masse just refusing to participate in any of their nefarious fascist schemes, they have no leg to stand on to complain. Cash the check, you are part of the problem, full stop. No whining or excuses either, no "exceptions to the rule". I've known a ton of government workers, every single one without exception, civil or military, is cognizant of fraud waste and abuse and the trampling of our rights and freedoms, yet it continues and gets worse daily. Goose step, lockstep, cash the check. Wonder why it goes on, I sure don't.

As to air travel, why people put up with that BS now is beyond me, I started boycotting air travel right after they started pushing homeland security crap, because it is an obvious dodge to get people conditioned to accept the police state. You put up with their crap, keep eating it with both hands, make excuses for yourself that you "have" to do it, and they'll keep adding more to your and everyone else's plate, and that is about it.

Morans (1)

hellfish006 (1000936) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101233)

If you elect me to be president of the US I will dissolve the DHS, this is my one and only promise for my campaign.

Re:Morans (2, Funny)

oni (41625) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101383)

I will dissolve the DHS

How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Ultimately (1)

msgmonkey (599753) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101235)

The kind of shock these people would like to apply is the one applied to prisoners attempting to escape in The Running Man.

Not far enough (2, Funny)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101275)

I require that this proposal be expanded to full body suits. I don't trust that a simple bracelet or collar can deliver the level of shock necessary to fight the terrorists.

I'd also like to see waterboarding apparatus installed in the bathrooms. Speed is of the essence, and taking the time to divert the plane to Gitmo for proper torture could be the few precious hours the terrorists need to steal our liberty.

So what if I... (2, Insightful)

Plazmid (1132467) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101283)

Put a piece of tin foil across the electrodes so it won't shock me? Or rewire so it won't shock me? But I mean can air travel really get anymore degrading?

Re:So what if I... (1)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101695)

Presumably they could monitor the contact by looking at your skin resistance, temperature, moisture levels, galvanic response, etc.

So presumably the device would report you as terr'ist the moment you tamper with it.

Re:So what if I... (2, Insightful)

Dmala (752610) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101795)

Of course it can. Wait until everyone is forced to strip naked and be chained to the wall of the cabin.

The Onion (5, Funny)

LexMortis (1183871) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101295)

Hahaha, man.. The Onion has the best articles!

Hahaha... wait, wtf?!

%#$$%#@!!!

This helps terrorists if implemented (5, Insightful)

ConfrontationalGrayh (1199233) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101299)

This system would help terrorists control all of the passengers on the aircraft. All the terrorist would have to do is take over the system and activate all of the wrist bands of the passengers to incapacitate them. After that resistance is futile.

Re:This helps terrorists if implemented (1)

crakbone (860662) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101473)

Not if they secure it with my uber password 123456 ... do'h now I need to change my password.

Oh no (5, Funny)

Peter_The_Linux_Nerd (1292510) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101303)

I don't care about the shock collars, but for the love of god don't run the system on windows.

Instead of shocking people with a collar (4, Funny)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101307)

...why not just show them Slashdot's new interface?

I said it before. . . (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101311)

and I'll say it again:

Soon, the only way you'll be able to get onto a plane is if you look like this [google.com] .

On a practical note. . . (4, Insightful)

saterdaies (842986) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101327)

you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.

As much as I don't like Tasers, it makes more sense to have a Taser gun than Taser wristbands. Those wristbands have to either be activated individually by number - not happening in an attack - or all at once - pissing everyone off.

For those that want to get outraged, this is an area where big business (airlines) can be your friends. The airlines won't allow this. Anything that makes flying more of a pain reduces their profits - even things like the new security fees on airline tickets reduce their profits. They aren't going to pay more money (I'm guessing at least $15-a-bracelet for the materials, location tag, and shock element considering that a Taser costs hundreds of dollars) to piss off customers.

So, this won't happen.

Re:On a practical note. . . (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101507)

you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.

No clearly you press the "shock all, sort it out later" button. In fact you press that when you hear a bump on the reinforced door - better safe than sorry!

Re:On a practical note. . . (1)

PachmanP (881352) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101597)

This isn't for terrorists it is for passengers who drink to much and get out of line. Kinda like how tasers aren't used instead of guns but rather instead of wrestling the guy to the ground.

Re:On a practical note. . . (1)

damienhunter (1248362) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101631)

It's got RFID built in, so I imagine that you could just use a directional RFID transmitter to set the wristband off. I wonder if this is going to open a market for wrist sized Faraday cages?

Re:On a practical note. . . (1)

Greenmoon (656273) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101811)

Agreed that this won't happen, but that's only part of the issue. The issue that WILL happen (probably HAS happened) is that tax dollars will be spent doing a study on the feasibility. I sometimes think the government secretly wants to turn all of us into Libertarians (respect to our Libertarian friends...). If they are spending our taxes on this, I'm all for getting rid of taxes all together. Madness...

That's ok (2, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101329)

As long as I can zap the screaming kid kicking the back of my seat. Or the obnoxious drunk who won't shut up. I can see it now. It would be like the Simpsons at the family counseling office all zapping each other. Very entertaining.

No more Lost? (1)

Cur8or (1220818) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101341)

If those Lost fuckers had these on we wouldn't have to suffer through that crappy show. They probably wouldn't have enough "bars" for the collars to call home. I obviously haven't watched the show since episode 7. All those people are already dead, right?

are you shitting me? (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101347)

This isn't an Onion article, this is a real proposal? I might go along with it if they fit the kids with explosive collars like Battle Royale. "Go ahead, Junior. Kick the back of my seat one more time."

But seriously, what the hell? At least the train service is still sane, or at least was the last time I took it. Arrive at the Amtrak station, hand over your luggage, take your seat. You're get there and are on your train inside ten minutes. "But what if terrorists hijack the train? They might try crashing it into buildings! Think of the children!"

Other idea... (1)

electricbern (1222632) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101359)

... is to use Shock collars on Government Officials and have the public vote on which should be activated when those officials go against the will of the public or when they are just stupid. Now that would be democratic.

Gameshow where prisoners fight in costumes, next? (1)

kimgkimg (957949) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101369)

...or is this where we wager quatloos on the newcomers?

Battle Royal: on a plane! (1)

H+FTW (1264808) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101373)

are you sure this isn't already a film?

make it fun - give people weapons going on and sell the whole thing on pay per view....

Devil's play things (1)

jmauro (32523) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101377)

Is there some magic incantation I can use to make this section disappear of my front page. I'm really not interested.

why limit it's use (2)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101379)

How about just applying one of these to every citizen at birth (OK, you'd have to replace them as children grow). That way you could have total control over the whole population, all the time.

The major benefit is when they get attached to politicians, these bracelets would provide a form of instant feedback for their popularity. Maybe theirs could be fitted with an extra heavy shock capability to let them know when it's time to step down.

Democracy and freedom! wouldn't ya' just love it?

Dear Terrorists... (2, Funny)

clt829 (820534) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101389)

Please don't take off your shock bracelets before hijacking the plane. Thanks, Delta

For great justice, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101393)

For great justice, find the code to turn them all on at once.

as seen last night in irc, thank you nyu2

joined-up-thinking fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101395)

From TFA:

In another part of the letter, Mr. Ruwaldt confirmed, âoeIt is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes.â

This will not improve air security. We have seen time and time again that when you use direct pain-causing devices like these on members of crowds, you tend to piss everyone else off, because they see it for the undisguised thuggery that it is. What was one person who was a disturbance is now a large angry rabble which is a threat to the whole aircraft. This will work, right up until it causes a major disturbance forcing the plane to make an emergency landing in a sane country where causing and then exacerbating a disturbance by playing about with stun bracelets is likely to go down badly.

The Reverend John Hagee: +1, Informative (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101397)

As poorly qualified as I am to stand uncompromised in a world that's on the brink of Rev. John Hagee-induced disaster, I hope you will bear with me while I begin this sincere and earnest attempt. And please don't get mad with me if, in doing so, I must instill a sense of responsibility and maturity in those who pervert the course of justice. One of the first facts we should face is that Hagee doesn't want us to subject his wheelings and dealings to the rigorous scrutiny they warrant. He would rather we settle for the meatless bone of obscurantism.

Hagee's monographs are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of "tradition". Funny, that was the same term that his emissaries once used to practice human sacrifice on a grand scale in some sort of primitive, anal-retentive death cult. Hagee alleges that he is a spokesman for God. Naturally, this is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Now, I hope he was joking when he implied he was going to abuse science by using it as a mechanism of ideology, but it sure didn't sound like it.

Every time Hagee gets caught trying to provide the pretext for police-state measures, he promises he'll never do so again. Subsequently, his worshippers always jump in and explain that he really shouldn't be blamed even if he does because, as they feel, he can scare us by using big words like "deanthropomorphization". I want to thank him for his agendas. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how crotchety Hagee can be.

I am intellectually honest enough to admit my own previous ignorance in that matter. I wish only that Hagee had the same intellectual honesty. With that kind of thinking, he's behind much of the sociopolitical indoctrination that goes on in many of our classrooms. Of course, it's not that simple. You may find it amusing or even titillating to read about his communiqués, but they're not amusing to me. They're deeply troubling. If I, hardheaded cynic that I am, weren't so forgiving, I'd have to say that in debates with Hagee, it is important to evaluate whether his provocations reflect a sincere desire to present an alternative point of view or whether his agenda is primarily to subvert time-tested societal norms. Hagee will almost certainly tiptoe around that glaringly evident fact because if he didn't, you might come to realize that I must ask that his forces take stock of what we know, identify areas for further research, and provide a useful starting point for debate on his moonstruck belief systems. I know they'll never do that so here's an alternate proposal: They should, at the very least, back off and quit trying to fragment the nation into politically disharmonious units.

Hagee's philippics should be labeled like a pack of cigarettes. I'm thinking of something along the lines of, "Warning: It has been determined that Hagee's anecdotes are intended to sully my reputation." It's amazing that hypocritical, ghastly suborners of perjury like Hagee still exist in this day and age. Sadly, lack of space prevents me from elaborating further. What he fails to realize is that he says he's going to egg on negative externalities in the form of evasion, collusion, and corruption by next weekend. Is he out of his mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that his propositions are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because if he thinks that this is the best of all possible worlds and that he is the best of all possible people then maybe he should lay off the wacky tobacky.

Next time, Hagee, you may want to check your facts correctly. What this underlines, I think, is that given the amount of misinformation that he is circulating, I must clearly point out that he says that all it takes to solve our social woes are shotgun marriages, heavy-handed divorce laws, and a return to some mythical 1950s Shangri-la. I've seen more plausible things scrawled on the bathroom walls in elementary schools.

The most petulant clowns I've ever seen do not deserve the assistance they receive from society. There's really no other conclusion you can reach. With this in mind, I must tell Hagee what we all think of him -- and boy, do I have some choice words I'd like to use. He motivates people to join his terrorist organization by using words like "humanity", "compassion", and "unity". This is a great deception. What Hagee really wants to do is make Marxism socially acceptable. That's why Hagee teaches workshops on mercantalism. Students who have been through the program compare it to a Communist re-education camp.

Ten years ago, it was selfish criminal masterminds. Today, it's callow, incoherent vagabonds who discredit and intimidate the opposition. Sure, we could just sit back and let Hagee focus too much on one side of the equation and not enough on the broader perspective of things, but that prospect really grates on people who have any kind of common sense. He uses highfalutin terms like "anthropomorphotheist" and "anthropomorphologically" to conceal his plans to display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations. In this scheme of his, a mass of grandiloquent words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outlines and covering up all the details. We become unable to see that I know more about mysticism than most people. You might even say that I'm an expert on the subject. I can therefore state with confidence that if one accepts the framework I've laid out here, it follows logically that the irony is that Hagee's most unscrupulous recommendations are also his most militarism-prone. As the French say, "Les extremes se touchent."

Hagee has allowed himself to become a spokesman for the same point of view shared by drugged-out, uneducated buffoons, empty-headed masters of deceit, and power-drunk inhumane-types while masquerading as an outspoken radical bucking the system. It's unfortunate that he has no real education. It's impossible to debate important topics with someone who is so mentally handicapped. Hagee extricates himself from difficulty by intrigue, by chicanery, by dissimulation, by trimming, by an untruth, by an injustice.

If you ask Hagee if it's true that his obiter dicta are a disgrace and an outrage, you'll just get a lot of foot-shuffling and downcast eyes in response. I have no problem with the manifestly obvious statement that his unedifying preoccupation with faddism will dismantle the guard rails that protect society from the sophomoric elements in its midst when you least expect it. I have no problem with the idea that he has failed to provide us with a context in which his rantings could be discussed and understood. And I have no problem with the special privileges occasionally granted to officious, merciless odious-types. What I do have a problem with are his narrow-minded morals. In a nutshell, I am skeptical of Rev. John Hagee's efforts to produce a vindictive definition of "poluphloisboiotatotic".

Cordially,
Kilgore Trout

We deserve this. (1)

acecamaro666 (1243364) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101403)

After all of the complacency and apathy regarding erosion of civil liberties and privacy in the United States, we deserve this.

Is this the very same DHS official that (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101443)

considered locking passengers in their seats after fitting them with "depends" and feeding them thorazine?

What is the date of the video? (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101459)

I was watching the video and it talked about the strengthening of cockpit doors and said that this measure should be completed by 2003. So when was this all new news???

Re:What is the date of the video? (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101565)

More jokes from the video. They talk about the EMD technology and how an air marshall or cabin crew could use RFID transmitters to issue a command to incapacitate the terrorist standing in the planes aisle while wielding a knife. Now you politely ask the terrorist for his Unique ID, then plug it into your transmitter, making sure you got it right. Ok now we are set to issue the command. Et voila 30 seconds later you are ready to zap him. The alternative is that you just press the button and take down everyone within range of the transmitter. (and hopefully have taken off *your* wristband before hand)

Alternate Use (1)

Joking611 (1321913) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101471)

If the TSA gets these for passengers, I want some for my userbase as well. I can come up for a wide variety of uses here in the office.

Be glad its not a collar (1)

crovira (10242) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101483)

one that constricts blood flow to the brain if the geolocating device detects that you have left your destination and strayed too far from where the "authorities" were told you'd travel to.

The guy who had his head blown off by a collar was probably field testing an early model.

That would certainly cut down on the kidnapping of tourist by terrorist groups in South America.

govt for the people (1)

crakbone (860662) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101519)

Wonder what Lincoln would say to this?

Conspiricy Trains (1)

jimwelch (309748) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101523)

Its another attempt to bring back passenger trains (at taxpayer expense).

I don't know which is funnier: (-1, Flamebait)

Duncan Blackthorne (1095849) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101525)

The fact that someone is actually attempting to pass this off as a real news story, or the fact that some people here on /. are accepting it as a real news story. There's no way in hell that something like this would fly (forgive the poor, unintentional pun). If anything would trigger a general uprising, it'd be something like this. Want a good reason why? We're talking about the TSA and the DHS here; they'd insist on putting them on everyone, including the elderly and infants.. and since it'd be a government contract, given to the lowest bidder, and likely rushed to finish it, there'd be malfunctions that would cause someone's near-invalid grandma or baby girl to die or at least be seriously, permanently injured. *shakes head* nope, I don't buy it, not for a second -- and if it is true, then it's time for me to start sharpening my swords (for when everyone runs out of bullets).

Con Air (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101557)

Welcome aboard on Con Air!

How The Airlines Can Become Profitable Again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101563)

1. Chip every passenger with one of these sweet little gizmos.

2. Sell the right to activate one or two of the collars in-flight for a fee of $200.

3. Watch crying baby, overly recumbent seatmate, and seatback kicker annoyances disappear on your flight.

4. PROFIT!

More tinfoil (1)

LM741N (258038) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101609)

First I needed a tinfoil hat, now I need a tinfoil collar or armband. Tinfoil is getting expensive with all the Patriot Act created demand for it.

Joseph Mengele now at DHS (1)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101619)

Such abusive and controlling components warrant a resignation. In the US, we have liberty and rights. The obsessively paranoid need to be constrained and contained through the use of peer pressure to resign, so that they can subsequently crawl into the hole from whence they came. It's mind-boggling!

Why only for airline travel? (1)

Britz (170620) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101639)

This could be a permanent solution to make everything a lot saver.

And because those bracelets would be uncomfortable to the wearer at some point why not implant the technology in the wearer.

We could even make a little ceremony out of it. At the age of six everyone gets their implant at a big "coming of age" party.

Re:Why only for airline travel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101777)

And when they flash red in about 25 years, they're recycled from the user. Damn - you should sue Logan's Run for copyright infringement.

"Running Man" anyone? (3, Insightful)

alderX (931621) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101643)

Why does this remind me to the prison scenes in the beginning of Running Man? As another poster already pointed out, since 9/11 high-jacking a plane will no longer work as passengers know that they are doomed and that their only chance is to fight back from the beginning. Also listening to the video I don't understand how the terrorists are able to get explosives on board, but can't manage to get the bracelet off...

Flight crew would use them to punish passengers (3, Insightful)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101669)

Complain about the 8 hour tarmac delay? zzzzzt

What it actually says... (2, Interesting)

Madball (1319269) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101677)

If you RTFA... Note in part of the scanned letter: ...We see the potential uses to include prisoner transportation, detainee control, and the military security forces might have some interest. In addition, it is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes.

Points to consider:

--Getting a quote on something costs nothing (see the "taxpayer's dollars" comment in TFA).

--Paying to have something developed further is SOP for government agencies--90% of it never goes anywhere

--Implicit in the above quote is that the most likely uses are in prisoner situations (I, for one, have no problem with this use case)

--Having it on paying air passengers is "conceivable"--> this is the sticking point for most of the ./ discussion. It is outrageous, insane, and fascist. It is not, however, close to reality (yet).

don't be alarmist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101679)

When they're ordering mass quantities, it's too late to do anything about it.

Doesn't take brains to break this story apart (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101709)

The company is a penny-stock company.
Washington Times did not report this story, it was a blog on their site.
The only source of information is at the penny-stock company. No attempt to validate the information was made, just a desperate company trying to stay afloat by posting what would be internal negotiation papers (hence, either false, or highly unprofessional).
The blogger states that the letter is from a DHS official, what does he have to say about this?

Wow - /. taggers are a weird bunch... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24101711)

This was one article I was sure would be tagged "WhatCouldPossiblyGoWrong".... And instead, it was tagged "usa"???

Will We Even Know? (1)

damienhunter (1248362) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101725)

I wonder if they decide to go with this proposal, if TSA might just forget to mention that the bracelet can shock you into submission, instead touting it's information storing and tracking capabilities.

Maybe Mr. Ruwaldt Needs to Hear from Us (2, Informative)

grungy (634468) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101737)

A December 21, 2005, Federal Register has Mr. Ruwaldt's email address listed as: paul.ruwaldt@dhs.gov [mailto] , or, alternately, paul.s.ruwaldt@tc.faa.gov [mailto] . Maybe he needs to hear how taxpayers feel about his interest in fitting us with shock-collars while we're on business trips, or going on vacation?

My Question is . . . (1)

Yungoe (415568) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101749)

Who gets to do the shocking? What would be great is if there was a system that would let fellow passengers decide who gets shocked. If, for example, 5-10 people request someone is shocked, then down they go. This would be a real incentive for parents to not let their kids run wild on planes. Imagine all the other rudeness that could be eliminated.

Freedom is really troublesome (5, Insightful)

mlwmohawk (801821) | more than 6 years ago | (#24101813)

To authoritarian people, the very idea that the masses have freedom is a scary.

Whether true or not, this story shows a very real reaction some people have to idea that they can't control other people. Freedom is, amongst other things, is also based on a "trust." At some point, a free people will rebel against an increasingly oppressive government. I think we are seeing the U.S. government racing to reach a state of control and surveillance BEFORE people start to rebel en mass.

The race is to get to a point where there is no way the people can rebel without losing their jobs, savings, houses, lives, etc. This is why students and kids protest, because they don't have a life's work of savings to lose.

The irony is that the corrupt powers that be had better fix the economy pretty damn quickly, as people with a lot to lose are easier to control that people who have lost everything. Once we have a major depression, the ideologies of abortion, gun control, "family values," become second to jobs.

If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.

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